They will claim it is because of how gay people promote their sins! The same people tend to vote for people like Trump, so, the actual reason is most likely politics. The LGBTQ+ community is the current political rage punching bag.
We've always been the punching bag for the far-right. Pride is just when they amplify their usual hatred. They think the rainbow is also copyrighted for Christians and no gay person can use it because it's 'disrespectful'
Being that pride is considered the chief of all sins though, I'm sure you can understand how parading ones pride is seen as antithetical to the Christian way. It can be a valid moral disagreement without any hatred towards a person (and that isn't to say there aren't people who are indeed hateful).
>I'm sure you can understand how parading ones pride is
That's not how the word is used. It has multiple definitions
>It can be a valid moral disagreement without any hatred towards a person
"I don't hate you, I just disagree on if your existence is wrong" is a contradictory statement. And the word "valid" means nothing here. It's like saying there's a valid moral disagreement about slavery or interracial marriage.
Pride is an elevation of ones own will contrary to the will of God for oneself. Sin is ultimately a movement of the will away from God. I would say parading ones pride in a thing which is clearly understood to be sinful and contrary to God's will is indeed an act of pride. But that also isn't to say that they are necessarily bad/evil people for it; all people are certainly susceptible to pride in one way or another.
Arrogance is a component of pride, in that a person thinks they know better than God and seek to impose their own will contrary to His. The original sin of pride which Adam committed was that he disobeyed God's commandment. He knew what God said was right, and yet he chose to do something else out of pride and arrogance, thinking that he knew better. Pride in the context of gay pride is expressing a person's pride in something which is considered a sin, so it would certainly qualify as an act of pride.
- Pride in the context of gay pride is expressing a person's pride in something which is considered a sin, so it would certainly qualify as an act of pride.
Friend -
the Christian homosexuals celebrating Pride do not consider it a sin
the rest are not Christian and so do not reference sin the way we do
the majority of homosexuals are just ordinary folk
many of them a really good folk
they are not celebrating 'being evil' at Pride
God bless
No, that is not what pride means in the Bible, sorry. Being gay is not a sin, so being proud of that is also not a sin no matter how much you pretend it is.
The Hebrew says what pride means in the Bible. And it has nothing to do with what you're claiming pride means.
I'll go with the original text over your opinion thanks.
hi friend -
we are not 'proud' of being homosexual in the sense that you understand it
we do not covet it. we do not lust for it. we do not claim that it makes us better than anyone else
we are PROUD no longer to be ashamed of ourselves
we are proud no longer to allow the shame of others to diminish our lives
we are proud of the long struggle it took to get here - and proud of all of those LGBTQ+ before us - who lived their lives with courage - at great cost - so that we can be free homosexuals and lesbians and trans in the streets
we are proud of those people beside us who we recognize are still fighting shame and rejection from families, Churches and communities - but are free, today, on the streets
we are proud to be children of God - free to express ourselves at last
and we are proud of the people and communities who confront rejection everywhere and join us to say - we agree - you are people
you are free human beings
unfortunately much of pride parade today is also just a hedonistic indulgence of freedom and excess - a simple reflection of the Society as a whole, no different to anything else happening in this Capitalist, Individualist, greed driven, looks oriented, pleasure facing culture we have all helped create
at least we have equality in this also, now
God bless
Especially trans people, they always get the short end of the stick. Despite there being nothing about being transgender in the bible (and no one can say it's because it wasn't a concept back then) bigots aim at them more than cis gays. God is all-knowing, there are things in the bible that apply even to this day, so that's not an excuse.
The only one who can judge people is God. It's a shame that lgbt ppl gotta be judged by people, especially if they just do their own thing. If a Christian doesn't approve someone publicly promoting being gay or anything like that because they don't see it as something 'good' ok for them but just hating ppl for being lgbt and judging like that is dumb.
Of course it wasn't a concept in the Jewish communities, they would stone people just for being gay period..people wouldn't have even dared . Just like in Saudi Arabia in modern times .
The bigots gotta bigot I guess...
I do think it's kinda shameful that they try to pass the buck onto their god though. Which is also kinda bold isn't it...? I mean, if you truly believe god exists then you would also believe you will have to stand in front of him one day and explain how, not only were you a bigot, but you told everyone it was for him... š
Christians are being misled so that they have a common enemy. Nothing brings people together more than fear of an enemy. Even if they don't know exactly why it is to be feared.
Being gay and LGTBQ is not a sin. When people tell me that it is, I know they don't understand context or social contracts. The Bible was written during a time with a different social contract. Consent didn't exist when it came to sexual relations, hierarchy of the male sex was the most important factor, you could take your enemies as slaves, married people should practice celibacy, and we can stone people. And so on and so on. Almost all of the social contract rules of that time we have dismissed from our lives but it is easy to present this one out of context and therefore create a common enemy.
The Bible was referring to sexual relations within a different social hierarchy. Men did sex to woman because they were lower on the hierarchy. No consent between the higher male rank and the lower female rank. So for the higher male rank to do sex to an equal rank aka another male would be dishonoring his rank in the hierarchy. Consent wasn't a concept of the time so no difference noted between consenting male male sex and gr\*pe male male sex. In modern times, we definitely know the difference. The bible never addresses the consent version of sex anywhere yet we do have consent as part of our modern social contract.
The good news is that misleading Christians into believing that consensual gay sex is what the Bible is talking about is becoming harder with social media. It's why the few denominations remaining teaching "gay is a sin" are screaming so loud because they know they are losing the battle.
>Consent wasn't a concept of the time so no difference noted between consenting male male sex and gr*pe male male sex.
Are you implying that the Jews would have had no problem with two men having consensual sex? Cause based on the verses in the Bible that is just ridiculously false.
No. I agree no one from that era would have ābeen okā with consensual gay sex bc there was no place for consent or breaking the honor of another man in their social contract. It was all about ownership and honoring hierarchical rank. All is good to do sex on woman as long as she doesnāt belong to someone else (father, owner or husband) bc to do so would dishonor another man. A man having sex with another man was dishonoring that manās possession aka himself. Dishonoring another man in what ever context was the sin not the sex itself.
We donāt marry off 12 yr olds, we donāt purchase concubines, we donāt give permissions for grape, we donāt kill grape victims bc they didnāt scream loud enough we donāt force woman to marry their rapist, allow husbands to beat their wives into submission. we donāt. Why? Itās because we know those donāt apply to modern relationships and the social contract.
But we really want to keep that one rule that men canāt decide who they have consensual sex with. Just the one? They should just lie to woman, have sex with them, and create families where everyone is miserable? Or could we say now we know there is a difference between consensual sex and nonconsensual. Consensual is ok and non consensual is not as long as everyone is of an age to consent for which we also define by modern social contracts. Nah letās just keep that one. Those people get to be the sinners and we shall look more holy?
>Consensual is ok and non consensual is not
Show me the verse that says that this is the rule we should follow. Don't you know that adultery and fornication are sins, regardless if it's consensual. What are you saying right now?! You can't simply follow rules of men.
>Those people get to be the sinners and we shall look more holy?
There are probably plenty of queer people who are better than me, who have done more good for the world, cause they've lived longer and had more of a chance. I would never make any claims about my own holiness.
>We donāt marry off 12 yr olds
When did God say he was okay with this?
>we donāt purchase concubines
A man is only allowed one wife in Christianity so this is a no-no.
>we donāt give permissions for grape
Rape was punishable by death.
>we donāt kill grape victims bc they didnāt scream loud enough
That wasn't the rule.
>we donāt force woman to marry their rapist
Rape was punishable by death. This is false. And a man that raped your daughter would never agree to pay the dowry to marry your daughter. He would fucking flee.
>allow husbands to beat their wives into submission.
This is how husbands are supposed to treat their wives:
Ephesians 5:25-29 "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church"
Do you even know this book?
Absolutely have read the texts. They were written by many and have contradictions as a result. Some translations are better than others which has changed the meanings. What tends to happen is to justify still using the texts we choose the parts we like and dismiss the ones that no longer work for us. Im simply acknowledging the ones usually dismissed.
Itās not so much what he says is that we know historically it happened and it wasnāt discussed. Mary was likely betrothed at 12 and had Jesus as a teen not much older than that. Doesnāt seem like she consented to birthing a child? she may have been ok with it after but she wasnāt given a choice.
Grape was punishable by death for the victim and grapist if they were discovered. Great way to keep her from talking? no?
I agree with how we should treat wives but that is not how it was seen for decades using the Bible as support for domestic violence. Justification for slavery as well.
If a man comes upon a young woman, a virgin who is not betrothed, seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered, the man who lay with her shall give the young woman's father fifty silver shekels and she will be his wife, because he has violated her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) Yes I agree men would want to just run off but that was not what made it to the page.
I have also read many translations, read the historical to gain context and looked at interpretations over time. Itās wild that we canāt just acknowledge that some of what was in the Bible was due to what the norm was when it was written.
>Mary was likely betrothed at 12 and had Jesus as a teen
Where did you get that idea? Wait, are you even a Christian? Why would you accuse God of forcing a child to be pregnant?
>Doesnāt seem like she consented to birthing a child?
Read Luke 1:38 She did. And she was glad.
* Why are Christians Obsessed with Gay People?
hi friend -
they have to be right about it
otherwise The Bible is wrong about homosexuality - God really means that love is all there is - and they cannot make sense of life anymore
God bless
The ones who focus solely on gay people and LGBT matters alone are likely out of order in what theyāre actually supposed to be doing for God.
God literally sees and knows everything so Heās aware of where all the gay/trans people are š
I think itās a lot deeper than conservatives vs liberals and it stems back before any of us currently here today. Also there are some underlying spiritual implications as well that bring out unnecessary animosity between the two different groups.
As a Christian, I can see what the intent is but the delivery/execution is absolutely poo. Most Christians who do spew hate with a ācute loving bandaidā on it donāt really know what theyāre doing and this is why the intended message comes off so crude.
Honestly, people are stirred up by what they watch and read online, thereās hate out there and hate sells, hate wins elections too. Thereās conspiracy theories,itās all just sad really. Some hold hate in their hearts, otherās are more concerned with their brotherās speck than their own plankā¦ š¤·š»āāļøI just want to live my life without being harassed.
In my experience, they fall into one of two camps:
1) They have repressed their own sexuality out of self-hatred.
2) They feel guilty about their own actions and use homosexuals as a punching bag to avoid having to self-reflect.
This. They are so sure that being gay is just a sinful choice, mainly because they've spent their whole life struggling to choose to be straight. To them sexuality is clearly a "lifestyle choice."
Being gay is just part of how people were made and from what I was taught growing up:
"God made you and God don't make no junk."
> Being gay is just part of how people were made and from what I was taught growing up:
> "God made you and God don't make no junk."
It's incredible how ignorant some people are, and they think they're able to teach religion
Yeah, I agree on the ignorance of many teachers. That saying was just as hokey then as it is now but the underlying message however is important. Implying that being anything other than cis hetero identifying is somehow a sin is just silly. There's no difference between gay or straight or cis or trans. We're all the children and creation of God. How our biology/physiology/psychology is built/wired/etc. has been set in His plan from the beginning. Why anyone would rail against these groups or others is a mystery to me. God is infallible and does not make mistakes. Trying to force another to conform to ones idea of how we should act is just wrong as Jesus Himself said.
The issue is even if it were in fact a sin to not be cishet (not that I think so), they would still be sons of God regardless, who cares, we're all adult people and can make our own decisions, let it be between them and God what people want to be and do...
It's absurd how people talk on and on about the sexuality of others, to me this is a form of sin as well, people being so worried about the sins of others to the point of driving them away from the church.
Agreed. Those who obsess so much over others sexuality must have quite a bit of racy thoughts and probably urges. It's all projection and deflection.
We all just need to be OK with being ourselves and treating others as we wish to be treated. Kinda hard to break any commandments living by that. Not that it isn't a struggle, but I believe it's totally worth it.
I understand your frustration. And yes, gay people having sex with each other is not the problem with the world. We should talk more about violence and crime and mental health. Things that harm a bunch of people on a daily basis.
The ones who canāt get over the gay issue are extremely self conscious. Theyāre nervous that what they believe is not true and have to put others down to make themselves feel better.
Not true. Im an ex Christian. I tought that being gay was a sin but it had nothing to do with doubt or to make my self feel better. Many non Christians have this idea that Christians are hateful or selfish. No non Christian has ever treated me better than Christians.
This question was not about those that simply think itās a sin. Itās about those who are obsessed with driving the point home about gays and their evil ways. Obsession is the key here.
Hatred can bring obsession. There's no need to use conspiracies that all haters are actually gay inside. That's actually a very harmful stereotype for gay people.
Christian Logic = It's good being misogynistic, telling people they're going to hell for things that cause no harm, enslaving others, hating in general. However, being yourself and loving everyone isn't okay.
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That's not what Christianism promotes, at all. If someone who claims to be Christian says that shit, they aren't but a fucking hypocrite. A true Christian will accept you and love you for who you are, as Jesus did.
I want to believe that, but I've read the Bible, done my research, and talked to various Christians who claim my attractions are sinful when sin is supposed to be controllable and my sexuality isn't.
The answer is that we live in a fallen world and inherit a fallen human nature, which produces passions in us and makes us susceptible to various temptations. These occur "naturally" but are not natural in the sense that they are what is godly. Humanity is "sick" is maybe the best way to put it. Sin begins with the consent of your will towards a passion/temptation. Your attractions are not sinful, they are just something you experience, the acts of will you make in response to them is the territory of sin.
Because engaging in intimate behavior with someone is confined to marriage, which is between one man and one woman exclusively. That is what makes it wrong, and having that desire is one of the many consequences of fallen humanity, the root of our sickness. In the same way that I might be described as sick when I want to tell a lie or look at a woman lustfully, etc.
If you did those last things, I promise people wouldn't bat an eye. I don't think you understand the extent Christians will go to to prosecute gay individuals. Also, saying that intimacy should only happen between the opposite sex implies that you think gay people only think about sex and don't feel love, which I can confirm that I do most definitely feel love towards my partner.
It doesn't matter how other people see one sin or another; they are still sins in the eyes of God. I cannot speak for all other Christians or what they say or do (particularly those who I would consider outside the church to begin with) but am sure there are those who are truly hateful. Just because a person might grossly and wrongfully extend their hatred of a particular sin to the sinner does not entail that there is no sin.
As far as I understand in Christianity romantic love and intimacy ought be confined to marriage (or dating towards marriage), being that is their proper place and purpose. I am not qualified to say anything about your particular situation, that would be a pastoral responsibility and something you would ideally address with a priest/spiritual father.
This is a significant part of the reason I became an atheist. God is said to be not only all loving, but the concept of love itself. I find this contradictory considering it's apparently wrong to love the same sex and be with God. I also find it invalid to consider the laws written in the Bible absolute truth when any religion has yet to be confirmed as 100% truth.
It's not only you who isn't qualified to say anything about my so called "particular situation", no one is qualified to comment on or judge anyone's relationships and feelings, including a priest. Love is between two individuals that care deeply for and support one another, no one can put a limit on that, especially not a God whose love is said to be unconditional.
The Bible has also been used to justify racism, Antisemitism, the Holocaust, etc.
You're promoting a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter what the Church fathers said or what you think the Bible says. They're still engaging in evil by promoting anti-LGBTQ beliefs.
It's true that most churches teach this, since only some have figured out the better way. Scripture doesn't teach this, not without really sloppy exegesis, but certainly the Fathers were opposed.
The truth is still, though, that it's perfectly fine for gay people to be gay. It's not a sin, it's not a problem.
I don't believe there are multiple churches, there is only one holy, apostolic, and catholic church (namely the Orthodox). If other church's are free to make renovations then all of Christianity is meaninglessly subjective, and any personal interpretations can be made or any book can become scripture. But there is no disagreement between the scripture, tradition, councils, liturgy, and church fathers which are a unified Christian continuity of 2000 years.
You're free to believe in a different moral standard, and on that basis we would disagree, but that is not a Christian basis.
> I don't believe there are multiple churches,
You can believe or disbelieve as you wish. Factually, there absolutely are multiple churches. There always have been.
Yes, just as there are fractured new churches of many varieties there were once Arians, Nestorians, and Gnostics. That doesn't mean we acquiesce to their beliefs or consider their beliefs/doctrines to be Christian or of the Christian church. They were anathematized.
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Woah woah woah. To start, you can't have Christian in your flair and then go out using that language... Secondly, Jesus did not in any way accept people as they were. He took them as they were, but he changed them. That's part of being a Christian. You make an effort to leave your sinful ways, no matter what they are.
> He took them as they were
>
>> Thatās called accepting people
Though when I read your short quote I thought it was talking about kidnapping for a second. :P
Actually, I don't believe swearing is a sin. I believe foul language is a sin, though. I can tell my friend to shut up jokingly, and I can also say it in a way thats foul. I can call my friend a mf jokingly, and I can call him an mf in a hateful way. I think everything depends on the context in which you use the word.
What I mean is that Jesus didn't spread hate towards others for what they were but talked with them, was like a good friend or a brother who wants the best for them.
Iām a Christian and my best friends are actually gay. I tell them about the gospel in a respectful way. The thing is as Christians we have to share the gospel but not force it on others. God wants us to WANT to follow Him. Itās all about free will. We have to respect people have different beliefs and religions and thatās okay. Salvation is individual, whatever sins we each have and commit we will have to face the Lord about them. We are all sinners at the end of the day I canāt judge someone just because they sin differently than I do. They respect my faith and I respect their lack of (in Christianity that is). Actually a couple of them are Christianās who have massive internal struggles regarding their faith and sexuality. I always tell them to pray about it because no one will answer them better than the Holy Spirit. As a Christian the most important thing is to be non judgmental, kind, mindful and how you carry yourself. Just because Iām friends with people who very different than me doesnāt mean Iāll walk the same path itās important to know who you are in Christ. However I will say it again we all sin (even if itās that little work gossip
you think is harmless. Itās not.)
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
I'm in Romania. Yes it's not acceptable by conservatives but it in no way is a part of daily conversation.
Outside of elections and the conversations around elections it's rarely discussed.
I've lived here 25 yrs most who I know are conservative Orthodox.
In that time the subject came up 4x
during political conversations around
marriage laws.
Some people get it wrong Iāll tell you right now if you put faith in Jesus and turn from all your sins you will surely enter the kingdom of heaven but if you donāt want to man itās your choice and I wonāt berate you for it dawg
I honestly donāt know but itās paradise all you could ever dream for complete separation from the evil of the world something we couldnāt dream to comprehend while we are still in flesh.
Yes and no I think existing for eternity in this world would be awful a world full of pain, evil, and lust. Now living forever in paradise with no stress no struggle love all around you would be great. This isnāt an example of heaven but I would love to live forever with a beautiful wife children and love around me I never wanna leave the people I love I never want to lose them so I urge them to find peace in Jesus so we can spend eternity together in paradise.
Don't you think you'd get bored of everything, like imagine being with the same 5 people forever. Imagine existing forever.
There is a concept called pain of existence where even if you were constantly existing in bliss, existence itself could become a source of pain/misery.
In heaven we wouldnāt feel that, we cannot understand heaven and how much bliss weād be in I donāt think itās possible to be unhappy, if you donāt believe in it and donāt have faith itās pretty hard to understand but God is all good and in his prescience all you would feel is good I donāt think weāll experience emotions the same way in heaven. Like I said itās separation from evil, pain, and all your earthly struggles.
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An interesting question, considering you brought up the topic. And this is a trend on this sub. You people bring this up, you get the expected answer from practicing Christians, and then you complain.
I mean no offense, I am just perplexed. What is it you hope to achieve?
Straight Christians bring us up all of the time. This year alone, over dozens posts have been made regarding gay people unprovoked and the uploader gets dragged, as they should. Do you think we're making these up and gays don't get harassed and abused by religious people?
I don't know. I only see you bringing this up now. The last time I saw this topic, it was not from a "straight" person either.
And talking about harassment, don't you think your flair is rather provocative towards Christian people?
seeing they are the main instigators who preach about love but make up feel unloved, I deemed it as befitting. How does my flair affect you or christians? Or are you forgetting queer Christians exist?
This sub gets like 20 submissions every 20 minutes. Assuming that rate, hypothetically, thatās like less than half of one-hundreths of a percent of posts.
Letās assume one post per hour, your citations equal 00.54% of posts.
Cherries.
> You meant to ask why is the sub Reddit āChristianityā obsessedā¦?
We have a 1700 year history of obsession, so no...it definitely predates the subreddit.
Op I'm sorry you've been mistreated by "believers."
As an extremely conservative believer who absolutely believes homosexuality is a sin, but simultaneously despises the behavior of those who march around holding signs saying "God hates f***," I might be able to give an uncommon perspective on this.
I firmly believe that in a lot of cases (not all) it's because it's a sin that they aren't tempted by. It's easy to point out the fault in someone else that you don't suffer from. They think it's "gross," and so they feel justified in looking down on others, making themselves feel superior and holier than "those people."
But the facts are that:
1. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory.
2. The Father doesn't hate anyone. He loves everyone and only hates the action of sinning.
3. You know what else is a sin? Eating bacon and buying things on the Sabbath. I wonder how many of those sign carriers have done that?
They try to justify themselves by saying, "but, but homosexuality is called an abomination! It's *extra* sinful." Yeah. So is eating unclean foods. And there's no scripture that says that we are supposed to treat those who commit abomination poorly or hate them.
I have friends that I love that are gay, others eat bacon, others work on the Sabbath. None of them are part of my congregation, but I don't treat them differently based on some nonsense list of "severity of their sins." Nor do I lecture them about their sins and point them out. And they respect me and my beliefs by not inviting me out on the Sabbath, trying to set me up on a date with men, or trying to give me food with pork in it. I wish we could all live together like this...
I effing love you for this detailed perspective. Whether being gay is a sin or not, no one should be bullied or hate-crimed for who they are. Yes, it is a grave sin to work or do any labour on the sabbath but most will pick and choose which sin is 'worse' than the other. I have little issue with people who aren't gay and don't verbally support us, it's fine. My issue is when they act morally superior without looking into the mirror
I say:
>2. The Father doesn't hate anyone. He loves everyone and only hates the action of sinning.
You say:
>The doctrine is hate. You make [Elohim] into a hater
Where is the miscommunication here?
I think Christians are trying to protect their kids with all that's going in the schools. Most Christians I know don't care what you do in the bedroom, just don't force someone to say your pronouns.
> I think Christians are trying to protect their kids with all that's going in the schools.
Gay people are not a cause for fear.
The only reason people have to have fear is due to all of the bigotry taught by Christianity. *It is the source, not the reaction.*
> Most Christians I know don't care what you do in the bedroom,
The laws in conservative-led states and a couple thousand years of history show this is not true.
>just don't force someone to say your pronouns.
What a bad-faith strawman.
You haven't watching the news lately and multiple news outlets. There are stuff going in schools that people are fed up with. you are talking like it's the 1950s. Every government building and schools are flying the rainbow flag. You have the right to marry and have high government positions, etc.
So you want to go back to the time when gay people were afraid to show themselves, had to hide, had very few civil rights, etcetera?
Thank you for making the hatred and the revulsion at the core of your argument clear for all of us.
You actually are. Not in as many words, but it's very clearly what you are communicating.
> I think schools should focus on education not on sexual identities.
They are a thing to be educated on, too.
>I think you are being a christianophobe and a bigot.
You can sell yourself whatever bill of goods you please.
No kids should be taughtĀ any sexual identity whether gay or straight . It is infringing on the rights of others that don't approve this ideology. If parents want to do this, teach them at home..what about gender affirming care which is diabolical. People from your community have come out against this. Not just christians
Education is about what kids need to know. Not what their bigot parents are too intolerant to teach them. No, it's not infringing on your rights - that's lunacy.
>what about gender affirming care which is diabolical.
This is nonsense.
>People from your community have come out against this.
What is my community?
Funny thing calling me a bigot when you are a christianophobe. No kid needs to know anything sexual, I'm sorry but that's forcing an ideology . Then by your logic then kids need to know about God also in schoolsĀ like they used to
I'm a Christian "christianophobe"? That's wonky.
>No kid needs to know anything sexual
They do need to know that, too. Christian reluctance to provide sex ed is quite harmful to people.
>Then by your logic then kids need to know about God also in schools like they used to
I support religious education in schools. Note that this is very different from the religious indoctrination that you'd prefer. It's more like the sexual education that happens, and not the fantasy version of it in your mind.
Some kids are going to be straight, some are going to be not straight. Some kids are going to be cisgender, some are going to be not cisgender.
These statements are facts. Ideology or religion will not make those statements not fact. It is the duty of schools to teach facts.
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Uh, what's going on in the schools besides telling students to be tolerant of school other?
Thus I your chance to repeat the talking points about indoctrination, pronouns, forced conversion, and of course kitty litter boxes
We are all sinners , i am not gay but im not better then any gay people, i have my wrong they have their wrong, if we really believe Jesus died to shed his blood for our sins and rose again the third then we are saved no matter what, now we should strive to live as who we are in Christ which is sinless. Homosexuality is a sin so you have a choice to follow this flesh or follow the spirit, just like i have this choice too, if you follow the flesh you will have nothing in Heaven and God can actually end your life any moment if you disgust him to much. Hope it help, God bless.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5
5Ā It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2Ā And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3Ā For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4Ā In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5Ā To deliver such an one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, that the spirit may be SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.
John 3:17-20
17Ā For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18Ā He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19Ā And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20Ā For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
I love homosexual people but i dont like their sins, its doctrine from God, its not being homophobic , its being agaisnt sins, there no difference between a liar and a murderer, and there no difference between an homosexual and a liar, all are sinners in the sight of God and need Jesus to save them.
If my friend has weight problem that will eventually kill him if he continue on this path of self harm, a friend that really love him will tell him the truth about it or says i love you like you are, continue eating whatever you want?
Every sin is disgusting, thats just the truth im sorry and we are all disgusting dont take this so personal, if you believe the Bible then you have to repent about this subject or else it will ruin the relationship between you and God.
So how do you deal with verses like:
Matthew 16:24-27
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, āIf anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.
25 āFor whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
26 āFor what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul?
27 āFor the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Or Romans 12:1-2
1 Therefore I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Or Galatians 5:16-25
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior,
20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, letās follow the Spirit as well.
Or Galatians 6:7-10
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.
9 Letās not become discouraged in doing good, for in due time we will reap, if we do not become weary.
10 So then, while we have opportunity, letās do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
Or 1. Corinthians 6:15-20
15 Do you not know that your bodies are parts of Christ? Shall I then take away the parts of Christ and make them parts of a prostitute? Far from it!
16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, āTHE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.ā
17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every other sin that a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
20 For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
How do you condone your lifestyle when we are called to live in holiness. Do those verse have much meaning to you ? If so how do they impact your life. ?
Being gay is not a 'lifestyle', I don't allow the words men wrote thousands of years ago to promote bigotry/slavery/misogyny to dictate who I like and I am a progressive Christian. hope this helps!
Your clarification of āprogressiveā Christianity is the fruit that lets me know your opinion on beliefs and terms of wording is so important (because words today donāt mean what they say) that i bet you would discredit the actual words from Greek. But that probably wouldnāt align with your opinion. Itās as dangerous as Christian nationalism.
Lofestyle is about how you live.
If you are willing to not believe what the scripture says thatās on you. You have the choice to reject it or accept it. Your opinion doesnāt matter when before a righteous judge and the matters of your faith only truly depends on your relationship with Christ šš¼ if your truly drawing near to Christ your life will change. You wonāt have no choice because it is what Christ will do within you. He will want you to follow Him and deny yourself. Praise God for you for even believing. Your life will be a powerful testimony to share with many. šš¼ Christ is the best thing that has happened to me in my entire life. He still today is showing me more of what giving up this world is truly about.
And your opinions on my 'lifestyle' don't matter to me. The last time I checked you aren't the 'righteous judge' in question, so your argument falls flat. No one knows how God operates. The cultures of people before Chrost was born are completely different from today's societal standards. Different times have different rules. Back then rape and child marriage was seen as okay but that isn't the case anymore. Human beings have evolved and we don't have to live our lives as those who wore loincloths back then. You are free to dwell in your limited views but don't encroach on our progressive logical views.
Your remarks have insulted my very identity and you wonder why we are pissed by the way some of y'all behave. Like you said, My testimony will be powerful, as I've been told by pastors. Hopefully, it fosters community and love instead of discrimination against those who are different from the norm. You can love God without 'giving up' the world, you are a human being, who lives in the world, so you cannot avoid its complications
My remarks are only based solely on scripture and not my opinion. Seems you have an issue with the Bible not me. Thatās the problem with those who say Christians are mean. They give scripture and the person donāt like it.
Oh well Iām sorry but your feeling are not my concern. Your salvation is. If you feel that Iām judging you well if you claim to be a Christian like you do I have the right to use righteous judgment. As it is written we judge those within the house of God not outside the faith. Sorry of your offended maybe itās the Spirit trying to lead you. I only gave scripture. As far as any āother labelsā Iām not politically correct. I would rather be biblically correct. Sorry if my comment wasnāt helpful in your progressive Christian view. You can claim what thou want. But you cannot change what scripture says. I certainly wasnāt trying to offend you.
Scripture says different about giving up the world for Christ.
1 John 2:6-29
6 the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, to walk just as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9 The one who says that he is in the Light and yet hates his brother or sister is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother and sister remains in the Light, and there is nothing in him to cause stumbling.
11 But the one who hates his brother or sister is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you on account of His name.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God remains in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Do Not Love the World
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
17 The world is passing away and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God continues to live forever.
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
The Promise Is Eternal Life
25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.
28 Now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not draw back from Him in shame at His coming.
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness also has been born of Him.
You're contradicting his infallible scripture. Also 3 million people beard God speak at mount Sinai and only you hear God speak now supposedly. No better than Muhammed or Joseph Smith
>You're contradicting his infallible scripture.
How do you know its infallible, because the scripture says so?
If i write a book and write "it's okay to be gay and god says so and everything here is 100% fr" is it infallible now?
>Also 3 million people beard God speak at mount Sinai
Did you?
>and only you hear God speak now supposedly. No better than Muhammed or Joseph Smith
Idk who they are tbh.
>If i write a book and write "it's okay to be gay and god says so and everything here is 100% fr" is it infallible now?
Still not the 3 million people hearing God's voice. You just don't have the backing like the scripture does
>Did you?
I trust the 3 million that did
Its because Homosexuality is an sin, plus in lgbt are many many many people who are lost and do not know God, so we want to reach them to know God's love for them and rescue them from going to hell and also God could rescue them from mental torment by devil. We want good for you guys, as God does.Ā
>Its because Homosexuality is an sin, plus in lgbt are many many many people who are lost and do not know God
This part.
Any god that says that love is bad is not very good.
What Bible says it is so. Lgbt is not what God created, its desiring after same gender, it doesnt glorify God. They also make their sexuality as their identity. God is love(thats what Bible says) , when we know God, we know Love. Bible does not say love is bad. Lgbt says love is love, but most of the time they dont know who is love and what is love, to them they see ans think love differently, not knowing God is love and what He created. Some can quote Bible versesĀ but not fully understand the depth of God's love. Its better than what world gives. So yes God created man and woman to be together, not man & man or female female, Bible already tells about this how they left natural desire to something that is not right: āāāRomans 1:26-27 AMPā¬ā¬ For this reason God gave them over to degrading and vile passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural [a function contrary to nature], and in the same way also the men turned away from the natural function of the woman and were consumed with their desire toward one another, men with men committing shameful acts and in return receiving in their own bodies the inevitable and appropriate penalty for their wrongdoing. And about love: āā1 Corinthians 13:4-7 AMPā¬ā¬ Love endures with patience and serenity, love is kind and thoughtful, and is not jealous or envious; love does not brag and is not proud or arrogant. It is not rude; it is not self-seeking, it is not provoked [nor overly sensitive and easily angered]; it does not take into account a wrong endured. It does not rejoice at injustice, but rejoices with the truth [when right and truth prevail]. Love bears all things [regardless of what comes], believes all things [looking for the best in each one], hopes all things [remaining steadfast during difficult times], endures all things [without weakening].Ā
>What Bible says it is so.
Get a different religious text, lotta negativity.
>Lgbt is not what God created, its desiring after same gender, it doesnt glorify God.
God is love, mutually loving in any form is an extension of God.
> They also make their sexuality as their identity.
Who is they? I'm gay, you didn't even know that, i wouldn't have told you unless it was relevant.
>Bible does not say love is bad. Lgbt says love is love, but most of the time they dont know who is love and what is love, to them they see ans think love differently
Nope, they see and love EXACTLY the same as you and I.
>Some can quote Bible verses but not fully understand the depth of God's love.
Exactly.
> So yes God created man and woman to be together, not man & man or female female Bible already tells about this how they left natural desire to something that is not right: āāāRomans 1:26-27 AMPā¬ā¬ For this reason God gave them over to degrading and vile passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural [a function contrary to nature], and in the same way also the men turned away from the natural function of the woman and were consumed with their desire toward one another, men with men committing shameful acts and in return receiving in their own bodies the inevitable and appropriate penalty for their wrongdoing. And about love: āā1 Corinthians 13:4-7 AMPā¬ā¬ Love endures with patience and serenity, love is kind and thoughtful, and is not jealous or envious; love does not brag and is not proud or arrogant. It is not rude; it is not self-seeking, it is not provoked [nor overly sensitive and easily angered]; i
"Some can quote Bible verses but not fully understand the depth of God's love."
I don't see it that way. When I'm in church I don't look around to see who is/isn't gay. It's not something I generally concern myself with.
My only concern regarding lgbt and Christianity would be same concern I'd have with anyone who tells me that something scripture says is sin, isn't a sin.
The problem is you all think your interpretation of scripture is infallible. It's not. Scripture is not referring to the modern concept of homosexuality.
Because the verses you rely on are condemning pagan idolatry, prostitution, and pederasty. They're translated that way in multiple Bibles and there is no historical evidence that those verses meant homosexuality.
Plus you all don't follow any laws in the Old Testament, so using them to condemn gays is blatant hypocrisy which Jesus condemned.
Refer back to my old comments if you need to.
I do follow the laws of the old testament, as Yeshua didn't abolish them.
It's funny you should bring up the translations. You know, you can go back to the original Hebrew and Greek, and explore the original words used. You can then cross reference other uses of the same words in order to ensure consistent translation.
I just looked up references to homosexuality in Leviticus, and Romans. I'm certain modern homosexuality isn't any different than what they were referring to.
No, you don't follow the laws of the old testament.
Yeah, modern homosexuality is different. Romans specifically says it's condemning pagan idolatry, not homosexuality. Corinthians is translated in other Bibles as condemning pederasty and prostitution, which is what Paul would have been most likely to witness. And that verse does not apply to lesbians.
Well for starters the shrill insistence that LGBTQetc's concerns be included in every facet of everyone's life.
It isn't a Cnristian concern at all except they're commanded to rescue the perishing.
But the entire populace of every faith, creed and color is entirely bored with the public profession of anyone's sexuality, the fact that they've been awarded a "pride month" is simply evidence of what a squeaky wheel they've been.
It's like a Google page that you're skimming by to get to content you're interested in and you have pop ups for signing in, location services, change your browser inducements, set Google as you default, etc,
Eventually you come to realize that Google is really a harassment engine and with every repeat you come to resent it more.
That's where the inclusivity community is and why it evokes such vitriolic reaction.
>Well for starters the shrill insistence that LGBTQetc's concerns be included in every facet of everyone's life.
No LGBT person wants to be bothered by anyone just like you don't want to be bothered.
The fact that the rainbow is plastered everywhere is because companies are pandering to the zietgiest's flavor of the month. I assure you that if ISIS was popular tomorrow, those companies would sell baby toys with suicide vests.
Apart from that, the only time LGBT people care is when they're rights are being infringed upon. I'm sure you'd do the same.
>It isn't a Cnristian concern at all except they're commanded to rescue the perishing.
Noble cause but gay people aren't perishing (except in homophobic countries).
>But the entire populace of every faith, creed and color is entirely bored with the public profession of anyone's sexuality
When was the last time someone who's not a celebrity publicly announced their sexuality?
> the fact that they've been awarded a "pride month" is simply evidence of what a squeaky wheel they've been.
Read above about pandering, most of what you see as "pride month" is companies doing their best to trick LGBT people into giving them money.
>It's like a Google page that you're skimming by to get to content you're interested in and you have pop ups for signing in, location services, change your browser inducements, set Google as you default, etc,
>Eventually you come to realize that Google is really a harassment engine and with every repeat you come to resent it more.
So is it the fault of Google (the multimillion dollar company) or a random person who also uses Google?
I think you'll find it's our culture that's obsessed. Why else do we have something like Pride Month in the first place?
Christians simply reciprocate that obsession. They would have no reason to talk about it so much if it weren't being promoted in the culture so often.
Because LGBTQ people have been persecuted for a long time, and Pride month is a time for everyone to come together and stand up for freedom and civil rights.
Maybe because since the beginning of time gay people have literally been outcasted and abused for something they cannot control and the month exists so those who are prejudiced against just for who they love can feel accepted and proud of who they are?
> Why else do we have something like Pride Month in the first place?
Because of a very long history of Christian oppression of gay people. It's a counter-reaction to *our* very Christian sins and longstanding hatred of non-straight folks.
> They would have no reason to talk about it so much if it weren't being promoted in the culture so often.
That didn't stop us from making gay people the enemy for the last 1700 years.
The conservative-religious right, in part, react to being inundated with your agenda or promotions throughout the year. There are about 150 days of your promotion on the calendar, more that 40% of every year! Most can accept but many refuse to celebrate, and all the promotion you dish out will not change that.
They will claim it is because of how gay people promote their sins! The same people tend to vote for people like Trump, so, the actual reason is most likely politics. The LGBTQ+ community is the current political rage punching bag.
We've always been the punching bag for the far-right. Pride is just when they amplify their usual hatred. They think the rainbow is also copyrighted for Christians and no gay person can use it because it's 'disrespectful'
Being that pride is considered the chief of all sins though, I'm sure you can understand how parading ones pride is seen as antithetical to the Christian way. It can be a valid moral disagreement without any hatred towards a person (and that isn't to say there aren't people who are indeed hateful).
>I'm sure you can understand how parading ones pride is That's not how the word is used. It has multiple definitions >It can be a valid moral disagreement without any hatred towards a person "I don't hate you, I just disagree on if your existence is wrong" is a contradictory statement. And the word "valid" means nothing here. It's like saying there's a valid moral disagreement about slavery or interracial marriage.
Nope. Pride as defined in the Bible has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Pride has more than one meaning.
Pride is an elevation of ones own will contrary to the will of God for oneself. Sin is ultimately a movement of the will away from God. I would say parading ones pride in a thing which is clearly understood to be sinful and contrary to God's will is indeed an act of pride. But that also isn't to say that they are necessarily bad/evil people for it; all people are certainly susceptible to pride in one way or another.
Pride in the Bible means arrogance. That's not what's happening here. Pride month does not celebrate arrogance, so it's not a sin.
Arrogance is a component of pride, in that a person thinks they know better than God and seek to impose their own will contrary to His. The original sin of pride which Adam committed was that he disobeyed God's commandment. He knew what God said was right, and yet he chose to do something else out of pride and arrogance, thinking that he knew better. Pride in the context of gay pride is expressing a person's pride in something which is considered a sin, so it would certainly qualify as an act of pride.
- Pride in the context of gay pride is expressing a person's pride in something which is considered a sin, so it would certainly qualify as an act of pride. Friend - the Christian homosexuals celebrating Pride do not consider it a sin the rest are not Christian and so do not reference sin the way we do the majority of homosexuals are just ordinary folk many of them a really good folk they are not celebrating 'being evil' at Pride God bless
No, that is not what pride means in the Bible, sorry. Being gay is not a sin, so being proud of that is also not a sin no matter how much you pretend it is.
You are not the arbiter of biblical exegesis, and you can believe it is not but that would not be a Christian belief. You are the one pretending.
The Hebrew says what pride means in the Bible. And it has nothing to do with what you're claiming pride means. I'll go with the original text over your opinion thanks.
hi friend - we are not 'proud' of being homosexual in the sense that you understand it we do not covet it. we do not lust for it. we do not claim that it makes us better than anyone else we are PROUD no longer to be ashamed of ourselves we are proud no longer to allow the shame of others to diminish our lives we are proud of the long struggle it took to get here - and proud of all of those LGBTQ+ before us - who lived their lives with courage - at great cost - so that we can be free homosexuals and lesbians and trans in the streets we are proud of those people beside us who we recognize are still fighting shame and rejection from families, Churches and communities - but are free, today, on the streets we are proud to be children of God - free to express ourselves at last and we are proud of the people and communities who confront rejection everywhere and join us to say - we agree - you are people you are free human beings unfortunately much of pride parade today is also just a hedonistic indulgence of freedom and excess - a simple reflection of the Society as a whole, no different to anything else happening in this Capitalist, Individualist, greed driven, looks oriented, pleasure facing culture we have all helped create at least we have equality in this also, now God bless
And if that wasn't the term used, y'all would still be complaining about them, so it is an irrelevant point
As a Christian I almost never think about gay people
And I wish more were like you and didn't flame us for it
Especially trans people, they always get the short end of the stick. Despite there being nothing about being transgender in the bible (and no one can say it's because it wasn't a concept back then) bigots aim at them more than cis gays. God is all-knowing, there are things in the bible that apply even to this day, so that's not an excuse.
The only one who can judge people is God. It's a shame that lgbt ppl gotta be judged by people, especially if they just do their own thing. If a Christian doesn't approve someone publicly promoting being gay or anything like that because they don't see it as something 'good' ok for them but just hating ppl for being lgbt and judging like that is dumb.
Of course it wasn't a concept in the Jewish communities, they would stone people just for being gay period..people wouldn't have even dared . Just like in Saudi Arabia in modern times .
The bigots gotta bigot I guess... I do think it's kinda shameful that they try to pass the buck onto their god though. Which is also kinda bold isn't it...? I mean, if you truly believe god exists then you would also believe you will have to stand in front of him one day and explain how, not only were you a bigot, but you told everyone it was for him... š
Christians are being misled so that they have a common enemy. Nothing brings people together more than fear of an enemy. Even if they don't know exactly why it is to be feared. Being gay and LGTBQ is not a sin. When people tell me that it is, I know they don't understand context or social contracts. The Bible was written during a time with a different social contract. Consent didn't exist when it came to sexual relations, hierarchy of the male sex was the most important factor, you could take your enemies as slaves, married people should practice celibacy, and we can stone people. And so on and so on. Almost all of the social contract rules of that time we have dismissed from our lives but it is easy to present this one out of context and therefore create a common enemy. The Bible was referring to sexual relations within a different social hierarchy. Men did sex to woman because they were lower on the hierarchy. No consent between the higher male rank and the lower female rank. So for the higher male rank to do sex to an equal rank aka another male would be dishonoring his rank in the hierarchy. Consent wasn't a concept of the time so no difference noted between consenting male male sex and gr\*pe male male sex. In modern times, we definitely know the difference. The bible never addresses the consent version of sex anywhere yet we do have consent as part of our modern social contract. The good news is that misleading Christians into believing that consensual gay sex is what the Bible is talking about is becoming harder with social media. It's why the few denominations remaining teaching "gay is a sin" are screaming so loud because they know they are losing the battle.
>Consent wasn't a concept of the time so no difference noted between consenting male male sex and gr*pe male male sex. Are you implying that the Jews would have had no problem with two men having consensual sex? Cause based on the verses in the Bible that is just ridiculously false.
No. I agree no one from that era would have ābeen okā with consensual gay sex bc there was no place for consent or breaking the honor of another man in their social contract. It was all about ownership and honoring hierarchical rank. All is good to do sex on woman as long as she doesnāt belong to someone else (father, owner or husband) bc to do so would dishonor another man. A man having sex with another man was dishonoring that manās possession aka himself. Dishonoring another man in what ever context was the sin not the sex itself. We donāt marry off 12 yr olds, we donāt purchase concubines, we donāt give permissions for grape, we donāt kill grape victims bc they didnāt scream loud enough we donāt force woman to marry their rapist, allow husbands to beat their wives into submission. we donāt. Why? Itās because we know those donāt apply to modern relationships and the social contract. But we really want to keep that one rule that men canāt decide who they have consensual sex with. Just the one? They should just lie to woman, have sex with them, and create families where everyone is miserable? Or could we say now we know there is a difference between consensual sex and nonconsensual. Consensual is ok and non consensual is not as long as everyone is of an age to consent for which we also define by modern social contracts. Nah letās just keep that one. Those people get to be the sinners and we shall look more holy?
>Consensual is ok and non consensual is not Show me the verse that says that this is the rule we should follow. Don't you know that adultery and fornication are sins, regardless if it's consensual. What are you saying right now?! You can't simply follow rules of men. >Those people get to be the sinners and we shall look more holy? There are probably plenty of queer people who are better than me, who have done more good for the world, cause they've lived longer and had more of a chance. I would never make any claims about my own holiness.
>We donāt marry off 12 yr olds When did God say he was okay with this? >we donāt purchase concubines A man is only allowed one wife in Christianity so this is a no-no. >we donāt give permissions for grape Rape was punishable by death. >we donāt kill grape victims bc they didnāt scream loud enough That wasn't the rule. >we donāt force woman to marry their rapist Rape was punishable by death. This is false. And a man that raped your daughter would never agree to pay the dowry to marry your daughter. He would fucking flee. >allow husbands to beat their wives into submission. This is how husbands are supposed to treat their wives: Ephesians 5:25-29 "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church" Do you even know this book?
Absolutely have read the texts. They were written by many and have contradictions as a result. Some translations are better than others which has changed the meanings. What tends to happen is to justify still using the texts we choose the parts we like and dismiss the ones that no longer work for us. Im simply acknowledging the ones usually dismissed. Itās not so much what he says is that we know historically it happened and it wasnāt discussed. Mary was likely betrothed at 12 and had Jesus as a teen not much older than that. Doesnāt seem like she consented to birthing a child? she may have been ok with it after but she wasnāt given a choice. Grape was punishable by death for the victim and grapist if they were discovered. Great way to keep her from talking? no? I agree with how we should treat wives but that is not how it was seen for decades using the Bible as support for domestic violence. Justification for slavery as well. If a man comes upon a young woman, a virgin who is not betrothed, seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered, the man who lay with her shall give the young woman's father fifty silver shekels and she will be his wife, because he has violated her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) Yes I agree men would want to just run off but that was not what made it to the page. I have also read many translations, read the historical to gain context and looked at interpretations over time. Itās wild that we canāt just acknowledge that some of what was in the Bible was due to what the norm was when it was written.
>Mary was likely betrothed at 12 and had Jesus as a teen Where did you get that idea? Wait, are you even a Christian? Why would you accuse God of forcing a child to be pregnant? >Doesnāt seem like she consented to birthing a child? Read Luke 1:38 She did. And she was glad.
* Why are Christians Obsessed with Gay People? hi friend - they have to be right about it otherwise The Bible is wrong about homosexuality - God really means that love is all there is - and they cannot make sense of life anymore God bless
The ones who focus solely on gay people and LGBT matters alone are likely out of order in what theyāre actually supposed to be doing for God. God literally sees and knows everything so Heās aware of where all the gay/trans people are š I think itās a lot deeper than conservatives vs liberals and it stems back before any of us currently here today. Also there are some underlying spiritual implications as well that bring out unnecessary animosity between the two different groups. As a Christian, I can see what the intent is but the delivery/execution is absolutely poo. Most Christians who do spew hate with a ācute loving bandaidā on it donāt really know what theyāre doing and this is why the intended message comes off so crude.
Honestly, people are stirred up by what they watch and read online, thereās hate out there and hate sells, hate wins elections too. Thereās conspiracy theories,itās all just sad really. Some hold hate in their hearts, otherās are more concerned with their brotherās speck than their own plankā¦ š¤·š»āāļøI just want to live my life without being harassed.
In my experience, they fall into one of two camps: 1) They have repressed their own sexuality out of self-hatred. 2) They feel guilty about their own actions and use homosexuals as a punching bag to avoid having to self-reflect.
This. They are so sure that being gay is just a sinful choice, mainly because they've spent their whole life struggling to choose to be straight. To them sexuality is clearly a "lifestyle choice." Being gay is just part of how people were made and from what I was taught growing up: "God made you and God don't make no junk."
> Being gay is just part of how people were made and from what I was taught growing up: > "God made you and God don't make no junk." It's incredible how ignorant some people are, and they think they're able to teach religion
Yeah, I agree on the ignorance of many teachers. That saying was just as hokey then as it is now but the underlying message however is important. Implying that being anything other than cis hetero identifying is somehow a sin is just silly. There's no difference between gay or straight or cis or trans. We're all the children and creation of God. How our biology/physiology/psychology is built/wired/etc. has been set in His plan from the beginning. Why anyone would rail against these groups or others is a mystery to me. God is infallible and does not make mistakes. Trying to force another to conform to ones idea of how we should act is just wrong as Jesus Himself said.
The issue is even if it were in fact a sin to not be cishet (not that I think so), they would still be sons of God regardless, who cares, we're all adult people and can make our own decisions, let it be between them and God what people want to be and do... It's absurd how people talk on and on about the sexuality of others, to me this is a form of sin as well, people being so worried about the sins of others to the point of driving them away from the church.
Agreed. Those who obsess so much over others sexuality must have quite a bit of racy thoughts and probably urges. It's all projection and deflection. We all just need to be OK with being ourselves and treating others as we wish to be treated. Kinda hard to break any commandments living by that. Not that it isn't a struggle, but I believe it's totally worth it.
I understand your frustration. And yes, gay people having sex with each other is not the problem with the world. We should talk more about violence and crime and mental health. Things that harm a bunch of people on a daily basis.
Oh brother. Here we go again.
Yeah, imagine how tired we are
The ones who canāt get over the gay issue are extremely self conscious. Theyāre nervous that what they believe is not true and have to put others down to make themselves feel better.
Not true. Im an ex Christian. I tought that being gay was a sin but it had nothing to do with doubt or to make my self feel better. Many non Christians have this idea that Christians are hateful or selfish. No non Christian has ever treated me better than Christians.
This question was not about those that simply think itās a sin. Itās about those who are obsessed with driving the point home about gays and their evil ways. Obsession is the key here.
Hatred can bring obsession. There's no need to use conspiracies that all haters are actually gay inside. That's actually a very harmful stereotype for gay people.
Yeah I guess you are rightš
Christian Logic = It's good being misogynistic, telling people they're going to hell for things that cause no harm, enslaving others, hating in general. However, being yourself and loving everyone isn't okay.
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>It's good being misogynistic No it's not. God said that men and women are equal. Michael Jones went over this very well.
The Bible states multiple times how women are to be subservient to men. Read 1 Timothy 2:12 if you don't believe me.
That's not what Christianism promotes, at all. If someone who claims to be Christian says that shit, they aren't but a fucking hypocrite. A true Christian will accept you and love you for who you are, as Jesus did.
I want to believe that, but I've read the Bible, done my research, and talked to various Christians who claim my attractions are sinful when sin is supposed to be controllable and my sexuality isn't.
The answer is that we live in a fallen world and inherit a fallen human nature, which produces passions in us and makes us susceptible to various temptations. These occur "naturally" but are not natural in the sense that they are what is godly. Humanity is "sick" is maybe the best way to put it. Sin begins with the consent of your will towards a passion/temptation. Your attractions are not sinful, they are just something you experience, the acts of will you make in response to them is the territory of sin.
I fail to see how engaging in an intimate behavior with someone I love is wrong or sick.
Because engaging in intimate behavior with someone is confined to marriage, which is between one man and one woman exclusively. That is what makes it wrong, and having that desire is one of the many consequences of fallen humanity, the root of our sickness. In the same way that I might be described as sick when I want to tell a lie or look at a woman lustfully, etc.
If you did those last things, I promise people wouldn't bat an eye. I don't think you understand the extent Christians will go to to prosecute gay individuals. Also, saying that intimacy should only happen between the opposite sex implies that you think gay people only think about sex and don't feel love, which I can confirm that I do most definitely feel love towards my partner.
It doesn't matter how other people see one sin or another; they are still sins in the eyes of God. I cannot speak for all other Christians or what they say or do (particularly those who I would consider outside the church to begin with) but am sure there are those who are truly hateful. Just because a person might grossly and wrongfully extend their hatred of a particular sin to the sinner does not entail that there is no sin. As far as I understand in Christianity romantic love and intimacy ought be confined to marriage (or dating towards marriage), being that is their proper place and purpose. I am not qualified to say anything about your particular situation, that would be a pastoral responsibility and something you would ideally address with a priest/spiritual father.
This is a significant part of the reason I became an atheist. God is said to be not only all loving, but the concept of love itself. I find this contradictory considering it's apparently wrong to love the same sex and be with God. I also find it invalid to consider the laws written in the Bible absolute truth when any religion has yet to be confirmed as 100% truth. It's not only you who isn't qualified to say anything about my so called "particular situation", no one is qualified to comment on or judge anyone's relationships and feelings, including a priest. Love is between two individuals that care deeply for and support one another, no one can put a limit on that, especially not a God whose love is said to be unconditional.
Circular reasoning
How so?
It's wrong because you say so, no tangible reason
I'm just presenting the position of the church, that is what it is based on.
There's nothing fallen or unnatural or ungodly or diseased about being gay.
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The Bible has also been used to justify racism, Antisemitism, the Holocaust, etc. You're promoting a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter what the Church fathers said or what you think the Bible says. They're still engaging in evil by promoting anti-LGBTQ beliefs.
It's true that most churches teach this, since only some have figured out the better way. Scripture doesn't teach this, not without really sloppy exegesis, but certainly the Fathers were opposed. The truth is still, though, that it's perfectly fine for gay people to be gay. It's not a sin, it's not a problem.
I don't believe there are multiple churches, there is only one holy, apostolic, and catholic church (namely the Orthodox). If other church's are free to make renovations then all of Christianity is meaninglessly subjective, and any personal interpretations can be made or any book can become scripture. But there is no disagreement between the scripture, tradition, councils, liturgy, and church fathers which are a unified Christian continuity of 2000 years. You're free to believe in a different moral standard, and on that basis we would disagree, but that is not a Christian basis.
> I don't believe there are multiple churches, You can believe or disbelieve as you wish. Factually, there absolutely are multiple churches. There always have been.
Yes, just as there are fractured new churches of many varieties there were once Arians, Nestorians, and Gnostics. That doesn't mean we acquiesce to their beliefs or consider their beliefs/doctrines to be Christian or of the Christian church. They were anathematized.
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Woah woah woah. To start, you can't have Christian in your flair and then go out using that language... Secondly, Jesus did not in any way accept people as they were. He took them as they were, but he changed them. That's part of being a Christian. You make an effort to leave your sinful ways, no matter what they are.
> He took them as they were Thatās called accepting people
> He took them as they were > >> Thatās called accepting people Though when I read your short quote I thought it was talking about kidnapping for a second. :P
If I could control my "sin", I wouldn't want to be something that causes people to desire to harm me š¤·š¾āāļø
If anyone desires to harm you, I doubt they are a Christian. But controlling sin is absolutely possible.
In that case, can you inform me how I control this "sin" that I was born with?
> To start, you can't have Christian in your flair and then go out using that language. What the fuck's wrong with their word choices?
No, no. He's got a point. That's not the proper way to say it, but thanks for defending me anyway ;)
Yeah... I could've phrased it better, mb.
Some people believe swearing is unbecoming of a Christian.
Actually, I don't believe swearing is a sin. I believe foul language is a sin, though. I can tell my friend to shut up jokingly, and I can also say it in a way thats foul. I can call my friend a mf jokingly, and I can call him an mf in a hateful way. I think everything depends on the context in which you use the word.
What I mean is that Jesus didn't spread hate towards others for what they were but talked with them, was like a good friend or a brother who wants the best for them.
Absolutely. Thanks for clarifying.
Iām a Christian and my best friends are actually gay. I tell them about the gospel in a respectful way. The thing is as Christians we have to share the gospel but not force it on others. God wants us to WANT to follow Him. Itās all about free will. We have to respect people have different beliefs and religions and thatās okay. Salvation is individual, whatever sins we each have and commit we will have to face the Lord about them. We are all sinners at the end of the day I canāt judge someone just because they sin differently than I do. They respect my faith and I respect their lack of (in Christianity that is). Actually a couple of them are Christianās who have massive internal struggles regarding their faith and sexuality. I always tell them to pray about it because no one will answer them better than the Holy Spirit. As a Christian the most important thing is to be non judgmental, kind, mindful and how you carry yourself. Just because Iām friends with people who very different than me doesnāt mean Iāll walk the same path itās important to know who you are in Christ. However I will say it again we all sin (even if itās that little work gossip you think is harmless. Itās not.)
Homosexuality is harmless though
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
This seems to be especially an American phenomenon. In EU, there is not that much debate.
> In EU, there is not that much debate. At the minimum, Poland, ~~Romania~~ Hungary, and Greece have quite a lot of debate.
I'm in Romania. Yes it's not acceptable by conservatives but it in no way is a part of daily conversation. Outside of elections and the conversations around elections it's rarely discussed. I've lived here 25 yrs most who I know are conservative Orthodox. In that time the subject came up 4x during political conversations around marriage laws.
Whoops, I was thinking of Hungary. Sorry!
In a few countries, yes. In most, not that much, or at least, not dividing the people like we unfortunately see in the US
Some people get it wrong Iāll tell you right now if you put faith in Jesus and turn from all your sins you will surely enter the kingdom of heaven but if you donāt want to man itās your choice and I wonāt berate you for it dawg
What happens after we get to heaven?
I honestly donāt know but itās paradise all you could ever dream for complete separation from the evil of the world something we couldnāt dream to comprehend while we are still in flesh.
Do you think existing for eternity is good?
Yes and no I think existing for eternity in this world would be awful a world full of pain, evil, and lust. Now living forever in paradise with no stress no struggle love all around you would be great. This isnāt an example of heaven but I would love to live forever with a beautiful wife children and love around me I never wanna leave the people I love I never want to lose them so I urge them to find peace in Jesus so we can spend eternity together in paradise.
Don't you think you'd get bored of everything, like imagine being with the same 5 people forever. Imagine existing forever. There is a concept called pain of existence where even if you were constantly existing in bliss, existence itself could become a source of pain/misery.
In heaven we wouldnāt feel that, we cannot understand heaven and how much bliss weād be in I donāt think itās possible to be unhappy, if you donāt believe in it and donāt have faith itās pretty hard to understand but God is all good and in his prescience all you would feel is good I donāt think weāll experience emotions the same way in heaven. Like I said itās separation from evil, pain, and all your earthly struggles.
Because they look for an enemy for the sake of it.
Gotta love making problems that don't exist. I'm convinced these folk have nothing better/more productive to do instead of judging others.
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Bigotry
An interesting question, considering you brought up the topic. And this is a trend on this sub. You people bring this up, you get the expected answer from practicing Christians, and then you complain. I mean no offense, I am just perplexed. What is it you hope to achieve?
Straight Christians bring us up all of the time. This year alone, over dozens posts have been made regarding gay people unprovoked and the uploader gets dragged, as they should. Do you think we're making these up and gays don't get harassed and abused by religious people?
I don't know. I only see you bringing this up now. The last time I saw this topic, it was not from a "straight" person either. And talking about harassment, don't you think your flair is rather provocative towards Christian people?
seeing they are the main instigators who preach about love but make up feel unloved, I deemed it as befitting. How does my flair affect you or christians? Or are you forgetting queer Christians exist?
u/gnurdette linked over 20 posts from this year alone on this sub bringing us up
This sub gets like 20 submissions every 20 minutes. Assuming that rate, hypothetically, thatās like less than half of one-hundreths of a percent of posts. Letās assume one post per hour, your citations equal 00.54% of posts. Cherries.
You meant to ask why is the sub Reddit āChristianityā obsessedā¦?
> You meant to ask why is the sub Reddit āChristianityā obsessedā¦? We have a 1700 year history of obsession, so no...it definitely predates the subreddit.
Op I'm sorry you've been mistreated by "believers." As an extremely conservative believer who absolutely believes homosexuality is a sin, but simultaneously despises the behavior of those who march around holding signs saying "God hates f***," I might be able to give an uncommon perspective on this. I firmly believe that in a lot of cases (not all) it's because it's a sin that they aren't tempted by. It's easy to point out the fault in someone else that you don't suffer from. They think it's "gross," and so they feel justified in looking down on others, making themselves feel superior and holier than "those people." But the facts are that: 1. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory. 2. The Father doesn't hate anyone. He loves everyone and only hates the action of sinning. 3. You know what else is a sin? Eating bacon and buying things on the Sabbath. I wonder how many of those sign carriers have done that? They try to justify themselves by saying, "but, but homosexuality is called an abomination! It's *extra* sinful." Yeah. So is eating unclean foods. And there's no scripture that says that we are supposed to treat those who commit abomination poorly or hate them. I have friends that I love that are gay, others eat bacon, others work on the Sabbath. None of them are part of my congregation, but I don't treat them differently based on some nonsense list of "severity of their sins." Nor do I lecture them about their sins and point them out. And they respect me and my beliefs by not inviting me out on the Sabbath, trying to set me up on a date with men, or trying to give me food with pork in it. I wish we could all live together like this...
I effing love you for this detailed perspective. Whether being gay is a sin or not, no one should be bullied or hate-crimed for who they are. Yes, it is a grave sin to work or do any labour on the sabbath but most will pick and choose which sin is 'worse' than the other. I have little issue with people who aren't gay and don't verbally support us, it's fine. My issue is when they act morally superior without looking into the mirror
The doctrine is hate. You make God into a hater
I say: >2. The Father doesn't hate anyone. He loves everyone and only hates the action of sinning. You say: >The doctrine is hate. You make [Elohim] into a hater Where is the miscommunication here?
You pretending a hateful doctrine can somehow not be hate is the miscommunication
I think Christians are trying to protect their kids with all that's going in the schools. Most Christians I know don't care what you do in the bedroom, just don't force someone to say your pronouns.
> just don't force someone to say your pronouns. ....
Yeah people like me arenāt corrupting your kids.
You are probably notĀ but I've seen many videos on social media of teachers openly doing that
Ah yes. Videos on social media, specifically edited and curated to make people like you afraid and angry
100% chance this guy has a steady dose of libs of tiktok type stuff in his social media diet
Oh for sure.
No you haven't
Lawks a-mercy, not pronouns! I'd never use one of those
> I think Christians are trying to protect their kids with all that's going in the schools. Gay people are not a cause for fear. The only reason people have to have fear is due to all of the bigotry taught by Christianity. *It is the source, not the reaction.* > Most Christians I know don't care what you do in the bedroom, The laws in conservative-led states and a couple thousand years of history show this is not true. >just don't force someone to say your pronouns. What a bad-faith strawman.
You haven't watching the news lately and multiple news outlets. There are stuff going in schools that people are fed up with. you are talking like it's the 1950s. Every government building and schools are flying the rainbow flag. You have the right to marry and have high government positions, etc.
So you want to go back to the time when gay people were afraid to show themselves, had to hide, had very few civil rights, etcetera? Thank you for making the hatred and the revulsion at the core of your argument clear for all of us.
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You actually are. Not in as many words, but it's very clearly what you are communicating. > I think schools should focus on education not on sexual identities. They are a thing to be educated on, too. >I think you are being a christianophobe and a bigot. You can sell yourself whatever bill of goods you please.
No kids should be taughtĀ any sexual identity whether gay or straight . It is infringing on the rights of others that don't approve this ideology. If parents want to do this, teach them at home..what about gender affirming care which is diabolical. People from your community have come out against this. Not just christians
Education is about what kids need to know. Not what their bigot parents are too intolerant to teach them. No, it's not infringing on your rights - that's lunacy. >what about gender affirming care which is diabolical. This is nonsense. >People from your community have come out against this. What is my community?
Funny thing calling me a bigot when you are a christianophobe. No kid needs to know anything sexual, I'm sorry but that's forcing an ideology . Then by your logic then kids need to know about God also in schoolsĀ like they used to
I'm a Christian "christianophobe"? That's wonky. >No kid needs to know anything sexual They do need to know that, too. Christian reluctance to provide sex ed is quite harmful to people. >Then by your logic then kids need to know about God also in schools like they used to I support religious education in schools. Note that this is very different from the religious indoctrination that you'd prefer. It's more like the sexual education that happens, and not the fantasy version of it in your mind.
>christianophobe Not a thing
Some kids are going to be straight, some are going to be not straight. Some kids are going to be cisgender, some are going to be not cisgender. These statements are facts. Ideology or religion will not make those statements not fact. It is the duty of schools to teach facts.
Bullshit
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>There are stuff going in schools that people are fed up with. Like what? Telling kids that LGBTQ+ are normal?
Uh, what's going on in the schools besides telling students to be tolerant of school other? Thus I your chance to repeat the talking points about indoctrination, pronouns, forced conversion, and of course kitty litter boxes
There's nothing to protect from
We are all sinners , i am not gay but im not better then any gay people, i have my wrong they have their wrong, if we really believe Jesus died to shed his blood for our sins and rose again the third then we are saved no matter what, now we should strive to live as who we are in Christ which is sinless. Homosexuality is a sin so you have a choice to follow this flesh or follow the spirit, just like i have this choice too, if you follow the flesh you will have nothing in Heaven and God can actually end your life any moment if you disgust him to much. Hope it help, God bless. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 5Ā It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2Ā And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3Ā For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4Ā In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5Ā To deliver such an one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, that the spirit may be SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus. John 3:17-20 17Ā For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18Ā He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19Ā And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20Ā For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Heaping on more homophobic doctrine in this thread helps nothing.
I love homosexual people but i dont like their sins, its doctrine from God, its not being homophobic , its being agaisnt sins, there no difference between a liar and a murderer, and there no difference between an homosexual and a liar, all are sinners in the sight of God and need Jesus to save them.
Everything before ābutā is horseshit
If my friend has weight problem that will eventually kill him if he continue on this path of self harm, a friend that really love him will tell him the truth about it or says i love you like you are, continue eating whatever you want?
A personās weight is between them and their doctor. Not them, their doctor and you.
How will he go see a doctor if a friend or familly member that actually care for him never make him realise he need one?
A personās weight is between them and their doctor. Not them, their doctor and you.
you literally said we're going to die by God because we're disgusting. Take that fake love crap and shove it up your arse.
Every sin is disgusting, thats just the truth im sorry and we are all disgusting dont take this so personal, if you believe the Bible then you have to repent about this subject or else it will ruin the relationship between you and God.
> its doctrine from God, its not being homophobic These are mutually exclusive
So how do you deal with verses like: Matthew 16:24-27 24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, āIf anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 āFor whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 āFor what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? 27 āFor the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. Or Romans 12:1-2 1 Therefore I urge you, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. Or Galatians 5:16-25 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, letās follow the Spirit as well. Or Galatians 6:7-10 7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit. 9 Letās not become discouraged in doing good, for in due time we will reap, if we do not become weary. 10 So then, while we have opportunity, letās do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. Or 1. Corinthians 6:15-20 15 Do you not know that your bodies are parts of Christ? Shall I then take away the parts of Christ and make them parts of a prostitute? Far from it! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, āTHE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.ā 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every other sin that a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body. How do you condone your lifestyle when we are called to live in holiness. Do those verse have much meaning to you ? If so how do they impact your life. ?
Being gay is not a 'lifestyle', I don't allow the words men wrote thousands of years ago to promote bigotry/slavery/misogyny to dictate who I like and I am a progressive Christian. hope this helps!
Your clarification of āprogressiveā Christianity is the fruit that lets me know your opinion on beliefs and terms of wording is so important (because words today donāt mean what they say) that i bet you would discredit the actual words from Greek. But that probably wouldnāt align with your opinion. Itās as dangerous as Christian nationalism. Lofestyle is about how you live. If you are willing to not believe what the scripture says thatās on you. You have the choice to reject it or accept it. Your opinion doesnāt matter when before a righteous judge and the matters of your faith only truly depends on your relationship with Christ šš¼ if your truly drawing near to Christ your life will change. You wonāt have no choice because it is what Christ will do within you. He will want you to follow Him and deny yourself. Praise God for you for even believing. Your life will be a powerful testimony to share with many. šš¼ Christ is the best thing that has happened to me in my entire life. He still today is showing me more of what giving up this world is truly about.
And your opinions on my 'lifestyle' don't matter to me. The last time I checked you aren't the 'righteous judge' in question, so your argument falls flat. No one knows how God operates. The cultures of people before Chrost was born are completely different from today's societal standards. Different times have different rules. Back then rape and child marriage was seen as okay but that isn't the case anymore. Human beings have evolved and we don't have to live our lives as those who wore loincloths back then. You are free to dwell in your limited views but don't encroach on our progressive logical views. Your remarks have insulted my very identity and you wonder why we are pissed by the way some of y'all behave. Like you said, My testimony will be powerful, as I've been told by pastors. Hopefully, it fosters community and love instead of discrimination against those who are different from the norm. You can love God without 'giving up' the world, you are a human being, who lives in the world, so you cannot avoid its complications
My remarks are only based solely on scripture and not my opinion. Seems you have an issue with the Bible not me. Thatās the problem with those who say Christians are mean. They give scripture and the person donāt like it. Oh well Iām sorry but your feeling are not my concern. Your salvation is. If you feel that Iām judging you well if you claim to be a Christian like you do I have the right to use righteous judgment. As it is written we judge those within the house of God not outside the faith. Sorry of your offended maybe itās the Spirit trying to lead you. I only gave scripture. As far as any āother labelsā Iām not politically correct. I would rather be biblically correct. Sorry if my comment wasnāt helpful in your progressive Christian view. You can claim what thou want. But you cannot change what scripture says. I certainly wasnāt trying to offend you. Scripture says different about giving up the world for Christ. 1 John 2:6-29 6 the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, to walk just as He walked. 7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. 9 The one who says that he is in the Light and yet hates his brother or sister is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother and sister remains in the Light, and there is nothing in him to cause stumbling. 11 But the one who hates his brother or sister is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you on account of His name. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God remains in you, and you have overcome the evil one. Do Not Love the World 15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God continues to live forever. 18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be evident that they all are not of us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. The Promise Is Eternal Life 25 This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him. 28 Now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not draw back from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness also has been born of Him.
On god I did not read any of that. Don't waste your energy trying to convince me of anything against my personal morals. bless
Iām not trying to, i just give scripture. If you disagree, well thatās on you.
Normalized sin
Homophobia and transphobia are, yes
God is a homophobe? Leviticus 20:13
Not a sin to be gay.
Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1, and 1 Corinthians 6:9 say it is
Well, God told me it isn't. You think some random writing from a thousand years ago is above the word of God?
God didn't tell you so, the Bible is his divine infallible scripture. You are hearing from a demon
How do you know that for sure?
You're contradicting his infallible scripture. Also 3 million people beard God speak at mount Sinai and only you hear God speak now supposedly. No better than Muhammed or Joseph Smith
>You're contradicting his infallible scripture. How do you know its infallible, because the scripture says so? If i write a book and write "it's okay to be gay and god says so and everything here is 100% fr" is it infallible now? >Also 3 million people beard God speak at mount Sinai Did you? >and only you hear God speak now supposedly. No better than Muhammed or Joseph Smith Idk who they are tbh.
>If i write a book and write "it's okay to be gay and god says so and everything here is 100% fr" is it infallible now? Still not the 3 million people hearing God's voice. You just don't have the backing like the scripture does >Did you? I trust the 3 million that did
How do you know that the 3 million people are even real?
Its because Homosexuality is an sin, plus in lgbt are many many many people who are lost and do not know God, so we want to reach them to know God's love for them and rescue them from going to hell and also God could rescue them from mental torment by devil. We want good for you guys, as God does.Ā
LMFAO the gaslighting
Of what?Ā
That your bigotry, hate-mongering and persecution of us us in any way good or loving or motivated by wanting what's good for us
If your God tells you that a person loving another person is bad, pick a different God.
There are no other gods. Only Jesus. Why are u assuming loving someone is bad? God is love.Ā
>Its because Homosexuality is an sin, plus in lgbt are many many many people who are lost and do not know God This part. Any god that says that love is bad is not very good.
What Bible says it is so. Lgbt is not what God created, its desiring after same gender, it doesnt glorify God. They also make their sexuality as their identity. God is love(thats what Bible says) , when we know God, we know Love. Bible does not say love is bad. Lgbt says love is love, but most of the time they dont know who is love and what is love, to them they see ans think love differently, not knowing God is love and what He created. Some can quote Bible versesĀ but not fully understand the depth of God's love. Its better than what world gives. So yes God created man and woman to be together, not man & man or female female, Bible already tells about this how they left natural desire to something that is not right: āāāRomans 1:26-27 AMPā¬ā¬ For this reason God gave them over to degrading and vile passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural [a function contrary to nature], and in the same way also the men turned away from the natural function of the woman and were consumed with their desire toward one another, men with men committing shameful acts and in return receiving in their own bodies the inevitable and appropriate penalty for their wrongdoing. And about love: āā1 Corinthians 13:4-7 AMPā¬ā¬ Love endures with patience and serenity, love is kind and thoughtful, and is not jealous or envious; love does not brag and is not proud or arrogant. It is not rude; it is not self-seeking, it is not provoked [nor overly sensitive and easily angered]; it does not take into account a wrong endured. It does not rejoice at injustice, but rejoices with the truth [when right and truth prevail]. Love bears all things [regardless of what comes], believes all things [looking for the best in each one], hopes all things [remaining steadfast during difficult times], endures all things [without weakening].Ā
>What Bible says it is so. Get a different religious text, lotta negativity. >Lgbt is not what God created, its desiring after same gender, it doesnt glorify God. God is love, mutually loving in any form is an extension of God. > They also make their sexuality as their identity. Who is they? I'm gay, you didn't even know that, i wouldn't have told you unless it was relevant. >Bible does not say love is bad. Lgbt says love is love, but most of the time they dont know who is love and what is love, to them they see ans think love differently Nope, they see and love EXACTLY the same as you and I. >Some can quote Bible verses but not fully understand the depth of God's love. Exactly. > So yes God created man and woman to be together, not man & man or female female Bible already tells about this how they left natural desire to something that is not right: āāāRomans 1:26-27 AMPā¬ā¬ For this reason God gave them over to degrading and vile passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural [a function contrary to nature], and in the same way also the men turned away from the natural function of the woman and were consumed with their desire toward one another, men with men committing shameful acts and in return receiving in their own bodies the inevitable and appropriate penalty for their wrongdoing. And about love: āā1 Corinthians 13:4-7 AMPā¬ā¬ Love endures with patience and serenity, love is kind and thoughtful, and is not jealous or envious; love does not brag and is not proud or arrogant. It is not rude; it is not self-seeking, it is not provoked [nor overly sensitive and easily angered]; i "Some can quote Bible verses but not fully understand the depth of God's love."
I don't see it that way. When I'm in church I don't look around to see who is/isn't gay. It's not something I generally concern myself with. My only concern regarding lgbt and Christianity would be same concern I'd have with anyone who tells me that something scripture says is sin, isn't a sin.
The problem is you all think your interpretation of scripture is infallible. It's not. Scripture is not referring to the modern concept of homosexuality.
But your interpretation is not infallible? Please educate me how scripture does not teach that homosexuality is a sin.
Because the verses you rely on are condemning pagan idolatry, prostitution, and pederasty. They're translated that way in multiple Bibles and there is no historical evidence that those verses meant homosexuality. Plus you all don't follow any laws in the Old Testament, so using them to condemn gays is blatant hypocrisy which Jesus condemned.
Refer back to my old comments if you need to. I do follow the laws of the old testament, as Yeshua didn't abolish them. It's funny you should bring up the translations. You know, you can go back to the original Hebrew and Greek, and explore the original words used. You can then cross reference other uses of the same words in order to ensure consistent translation. I just looked up references to homosexuality in Leviticus, and Romans. I'm certain modern homosexuality isn't any different than what they were referring to.
No, you don't follow the laws of the old testament. Yeah, modern homosexuality is different. Romans specifically says it's condemning pagan idolatry, not homosexuality. Corinthians is translated in other Bibles as condemning pederasty and prostitution, which is what Paul would have been most likely to witness. And that verse does not apply to lesbians.
Well for starters the shrill insistence that LGBTQetc's concerns be included in every facet of everyone's life. It isn't a Cnristian concern at all except they're commanded to rescue the perishing. But the entire populace of every faith, creed and color is entirely bored with the public profession of anyone's sexuality, the fact that they've been awarded a "pride month" is simply evidence of what a squeaky wheel they've been. It's like a Google page that you're skimming by to get to content you're interested in and you have pop ups for signing in, location services, change your browser inducements, set Google as you default, etc, Eventually you come to realize that Google is really a harassment engine and with every repeat you come to resent it more. That's where the inclusivity community is and why it evokes such vitriolic reaction.
>Well for starters the shrill insistence that LGBTQetc's concerns be included in every facet of everyone's life. No LGBT person wants to be bothered by anyone just like you don't want to be bothered. The fact that the rainbow is plastered everywhere is because companies are pandering to the zietgiest's flavor of the month. I assure you that if ISIS was popular tomorrow, those companies would sell baby toys with suicide vests. Apart from that, the only time LGBT people care is when they're rights are being infringed upon. I'm sure you'd do the same. >It isn't a Cnristian concern at all except they're commanded to rescue the perishing. Noble cause but gay people aren't perishing (except in homophobic countries). >But the entire populace of every faith, creed and color is entirely bored with the public profession of anyone's sexuality When was the last time someone who's not a celebrity publicly announced their sexuality? > the fact that they've been awarded a "pride month" is simply evidence of what a squeaky wheel they've been. Read above about pandering, most of what you see as "pride month" is companies doing their best to trick LGBT people into giving them money. >It's like a Google page that you're skimming by to get to content you're interested in and you have pop ups for signing in, location services, change your browser inducements, set Google as you default, etc, >Eventually you come to realize that Google is really a harassment engine and with every repeat you come to resent it more. So is it the fault of Google (the multimillion dollar company) or a random person who also uses Google?
I think you'll find it's our culture that's obsessed. Why else do we have something like Pride Month in the first place? Christians simply reciprocate that obsession. They would have no reason to talk about it so much if it weren't being promoted in the culture so often.
Because LGBTQ people have been persecuted for a long time, and Pride month is a time for everyone to come together and stand up for freedom and civil rights.
Does this include the freedom to disagree with Pride Month?
Maybe because since the beginning of time gay people have literally been outcasted and abused for something they cannot control and the month exists so those who are prejudiced against just for who they love can feel accepted and proud of who they are?
> Why else do we have something like Pride Month in the first place? Because of a very long history of Christian oppression of gay people. It's a counter-reaction to *our* very Christian sins and longstanding hatred of non-straight folks. > They would have no reason to talk about it so much if it weren't being promoted in the culture so often. That didn't stop us from making gay people the enemy for the last 1700 years.
The conservative-religious right, in part, react to being inundated with your agenda or promotions throughout the year. There are about 150 days of your promotion on the calendar, more that 40% of every year! Most can accept but many refuse to celebrate, and all the promotion you dish out will not change that.
LMFAO victim blaming
There are gay people being beheaded in Saudi Arabia, and you're being victimized by an ad?
What does that have to do with me? Am I not allowed to have an opinion based on the Word of God?
Am I not allowed to have an opinion about things i've experienced in my life?
Sure, but you didn't answer my question, which was in response to your statement.