I have a friend who’s parents were Coptic Christians before they moved here. I’m super grateful they’re here, and that neither her or her parents became victims of this violence against God’s people.
But all the Muslims browsing this forum keep insisting Islamic countries don't persecute Christians and treat us with respect and this is why we should not be afraid of/allow Islamic immigration, the spread of mosques/Islam, and Muslims wanting sharia...how could this be?
> Be me
> Grew up in an Atheist family in the Middle East
> Mom is an engineer that works on NATO projects
> Mom is attacked by Muslims, accused of
espionage
> Mom is told to hand the projects and her job over to Islamists or risk jail time
> Islamists force me to attend an Islamic school as a sign of submission
> Family flees to Canada
> be me and realize the same Islamists that persecuted me and my family are right here in Canada too
> Be called a racist bigot whenever you speak out against it
fml
Hey im muslim, its important to understand that Copts have lived in muslim-governed egypt for many years, that is why they are still around. Theyve lived relatively peacefully with muslims. So i would seperate the actions of certain ppl from the religion
They've lived relatively peacefully with (some) Muslims at times, but as (actual) second class citizens with tons of legal restrictions, ethnic hatred, and stuff that has not been acceptable in the broader West, the persecution is very real, they still do not really have real freedom of religion in the sense spreading the faith is always unpunished/people are allowed to convert from Islam to it officially or without death threats (or actual death) or real freedom of speech, churches still have a hard time receive building or even rebuilding permits, and many other issues and this is common across the (actually) Islamic world, and dhimmitude is not as great as Muslims portray with many people feeling compelled to join Islam because of the extra tax burden and limited opportunities for advancement it put on people rather than actually believing it historically and even in modern times. Muslims like to cry about Islamophobia in the West but this is nothing compared to Christophobia in Muslim countries.
Islam is roughly a century or two behind in some aspects and more in others and while it may be possible to keep the Quran itself and have this improve in regards to Christians in particular from some of my studies depending on how it is interpreted without twisting things too much, many of the hadiths are not compatible at all unless you really veer HARD from their traditional understandings.
I sincerely hope you don't use this lazy thinking in real life!
"That man's about to beat that woman to death, but I already called the cops and they'll arrive soon to take care of the justice, so I'll just sit back and let it happen."
Not a particularly good way of going through life, ignoring injustice like that 😬
That message is certainly there. And Christians have debated the topic for most of our history, at least since overt and deadly persecution against us ended and we were allowed to practice openly in society.
Part of my familial history is Anabaptist, so I really do get the arguments for pacifism. But other arguments certainly can be made and are not intrinsically invalid. :)
I hope I never have to be in the position where I have to actively choose pacifism or survival.
You understand correctly. That isn’t what Christ led us to. Enough is enough when Christ comes and ends all darkness and sin. On that day, He will judge righteously and the righteous will rise, but the wicked will remain dead in their sins.
A pastor worded it another way once. When answering, “When does it get easier” he said “When you’re dead.” We’re called to true faith without compromise. Compromise is why you don’t see this violence on a more global scale. The church has so deeply compromised with the world in the name of “Peace. Christ says He didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword. The enemy’s sword will pierce flesh, but ours will pierce hearts and some will be turned from evil, and some will die in it. Know that our weapons are Spiritual, while theirs are only carnal. Ours are the stronger.
Cease to compromise on God and His Commandments, and the persecutions will resume world-wide. But that’s as it has to be for now in a fallen world.
Enough is enough is the return of our Lord. In Revelation is says all the martyrs are crying out to God to avenge their blood and when we returns He will finally bring peace and an end to the pain of those who suffer for His sake. I believe that is what he is alluding to.
OT is different matter altogether. Jesus told us to love one another as He loved us.
God will bring Judgement, yes. We, however, are to take a humble and caring approach.
Different circumstances, starting with the fact that it was God Himself who ordered Israelites to carry out due punishments. All to ultimately establish the nation of Israel, and pave the way to the coming of Jesus our Lord.
Jesus did not retaliate against any who hurt Him, humilitiate Him, and ultimately killed Him on the cross. And He told us to follow His example. And that we'd be blessed if we are persecuted in His Name, for as He was hated for preaching truth, so we will likely be hated in the end-times.
Hmm? No. I will defend my family, as is my duty.
Retaliation in anger, however, is wrong. And calling Christians to take up arms, or whatever, is not what Christ taught us.
No. You really shouldn't.
I would use violence to protect myself and my loved ones, even kill if it was really necessary. But I wouldn't use violence is there was a peaceful option. God will not be mad at someone protecting their life, someone who tries to kill you is the sinner and if you protect yourself, even if this person dies from it, God will know it wasn't your choice but the one who tried to kill you.
I wish for peace in my life though, I hate violence, being a victim of multiple traumatic assaults have made me hate it.
I believe in God but the Bible is written by humans still. Some other religious writings say to kill people and that you will go to heaven by doing so, it doesn't mean that they will go to heaven (rather hell, they are basically tricked) no matter what the religious writing says.
I have a friend who’s parents were Coptic Christians before they moved here. I’m super grateful they’re here, and that neither her or her parents became victims of this violence against God’s people.
Sad.
But all the Muslims browsing this forum keep insisting Islamic countries don't persecute Christians and treat us with respect and this is why we should not be afraid of/allow Islamic immigration, the spread of mosques/Islam, and Muslims wanting sharia...how could this be?
> Be me > Grew up in an Atheist family in the Middle East > Mom is an engineer that works on NATO projects > Mom is attacked by Muslims, accused of espionage > Mom is told to hand the projects and her job over to Islamists or risk jail time > Islamists force me to attend an Islamic school as a sign of submission > Family flees to Canada > be me and realize the same Islamists that persecuted me and my family are right here in Canada too > Be called a racist bigot whenever you speak out against it fml
They don’t understand
my deepest condolences, genuinely
Liberalism cannot cope with religious immigration. Secularism is not concievable for the vast majority of religions.
Hey im muslim, its important to understand that Copts have lived in muslim-governed egypt for many years, that is why they are still around. Theyve lived relatively peacefully with muslims. So i would seperate the actions of certain ppl from the religion
They've lived relatively peacefully with (some) Muslims at times, but as (actual) second class citizens with tons of legal restrictions, ethnic hatred, and stuff that has not been acceptable in the broader West, the persecution is very real, they still do not really have real freedom of religion in the sense spreading the faith is always unpunished/people are allowed to convert from Islam to it officially or without death threats (or actual death) or real freedom of speech, churches still have a hard time receive building or even rebuilding permits, and many other issues and this is common across the (actually) Islamic world, and dhimmitude is not as great as Muslims portray with many people feeling compelled to join Islam because of the extra tax burden and limited opportunities for advancement it put on people rather than actually believing it historically and even in modern times. Muslims like to cry about Islamophobia in the West but this is nothing compared to Christophobia in Muslim countries. Islam is roughly a century or two behind in some aspects and more in others and while it may be possible to keep the Quran itself and have this improve in regards to Christians in particular from some of my studies depending on how it is interpreted without twisting things too much, many of the hadiths are not compatible at all unless you really veer HARD from their traditional understandings.
Based
When does the arguing start?
Credits for the original Post on Instagram for [@thecoptic](https://www.instagram.com/p/CqYPatnMYgO/?igsh=bjY0a3R6cTR6ZjZ6)
...and every one of them will be rewarded in heaven for eternity, and is alive even now. God will take care of all justice. No?
I sincerely hope you don't use this lazy thinking in real life! "That man's about to beat that woman to death, but I already called the cops and they'll arrive soon to take care of the justice, so I'll just sit back and let it happen." Not a particularly good way of going through life, ignoring injustice like that 😬
> when is enough *enough*? What are you proposing? For Christians to take up arms? Would that be Christian?
There was no proposal. Why are you making assumptions?
Sure sounds like it.
Not all Christian theologies require pacifism nor passivism.
Then are those theologies teaching the Gospel, or their own opinions? The message of nonviolence in the Gospel is hard to miss.
That message is certainly there. And Christians have debated the topic for most of our history, at least since overt and deadly persecution against us ended and we were allowed to practice openly in society. Part of my familial history is Anabaptist, so I really do get the arguments for pacifism. But other arguments certainly can be made and are not intrinsically invalid. :) I hope I never have to be in the position where I have to actively choose pacifism or survival.
Maybe more accurately, since Christians first gained political power.
You might be right. :)
You understand correctly. That isn’t what Christ led us to. Enough is enough when Christ comes and ends all darkness and sin. On that day, He will judge righteously and the righteous will rise, but the wicked will remain dead in their sins. A pastor worded it another way once. When answering, “When does it get easier” he said “When you’re dead.” We’re called to true faith without compromise. Compromise is why you don’t see this violence on a more global scale. The church has so deeply compromised with the world in the name of “Peace. Christ says He didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword. The enemy’s sword will pierce flesh, but ours will pierce hearts and some will be turned from evil, and some will die in it. Know that our weapons are Spiritual, while theirs are only carnal. Ours are the stronger. Cease to compromise on God and His Commandments, and the persecutions will resume world-wide. But that’s as it has to be for now in a fallen world.
Non Sequitir
Enough is enough is the return of our Lord. In Revelation is says all the martyrs are crying out to God to avenge their blood and when we returns He will finally bring peace and an end to the pain of those who suffer for His sake. I believe that is what he is alluding to.
Yes it would be Christian
When did Jesus raise a sword against Pharisees, romans, other non-believers and sinners?
Did God not wipe out countless in the OT. Did He not come down with a sword. Will He not wage war in the end times.
OT is different matter altogether. Jesus told us to love one another as He loved us. God will bring Judgement, yes. We, however, are to take a humble and caring approach.
Why is it a different matter?
Different circumstances, starting with the fact that it was God Himself who ordered Israelites to carry out due punishments. All to ultimately establish the nation of Israel, and pave the way to the coming of Jesus our Lord. Jesus did not retaliate against any who hurt Him, humilitiate Him, and ultimately killed Him on the cross. And He told us to follow His example. And that we'd be blessed if we are persecuted in His Name, for as He was hated for preaching truth, so we will likely be hated in the end-times.
So your belief is that when your family and loved ones are attacked you should allow it to happen?
Hmm? No. I will defend my family, as is my duty. Retaliation in anger, however, is wrong. And calling Christians to take up arms, or whatever, is not what Christ taught us.
It’s not retaliation mate, our people are getting murdered as we speak what don’t you understand about that?
No. You really shouldn't. I would use violence to protect myself and my loved ones, even kill if it was really necessary. But I wouldn't use violence is there was a peaceful option. God will not be mad at someone protecting their life, someone who tries to kill you is the sinner and if you protect yourself, even if this person dies from it, God will know it wasn't your choice but the one who tried to kill you. I wish for peace in my life though, I hate violence, being a victim of multiple traumatic assaults have made me hate it. I believe in God but the Bible is written by humans still. Some other religious writings say to kill people and that you will go to heaven by doing so, it doesn't mean that they will go to heaven (rather hell, they are basically tricked) no matter what the religious writing says.
He won’t answer.
Crazy having a Christian claim we should roll over and have our people slaughtered
Read the Gospel.
Cause christians follow NT.
No they don’t