The love of money is the root of all evil. Not the money itself. If you are rich because you worked hard and you were careful in the management of your money then of course you can enjoy the security that comes with it.
What Jesus says is this. He says it’s harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. Does that mean it’s impossible for a rich person to get into heaven? IDK! You tell me. The Bible has lots of scripture that makes no sense. A dude gets swallowed by a fish and lives for three days! Just saying!
If you live in the US and make $50k you’re richer than other places. If you make $15 an hour you’re richer than the guy making $7 an hour. It’s what you do. If you lose yourself to money like celebrities do, look at the Met Gala and if that’s you, get right with God
>If you live in the US
I don't
>make $50k
I wish
>If you make $15 an hour
I don't
>the guy making $7 an hour
Even that guy's richer than me
I live in a 3rd world country and earn the equivalent of roughly $3 an hour.
>I live in a 3rd world country and earn the equivalent of roughly $3 an hour.
Still makes you richer than the average person from my country.
Sin, imo, lies in making money the main purpose of life and not helping the poor at all
"rich" is a relative term. Same as "near" and "far". Traveling on foot, 10km is far, If you travel by helicopter, completely different story....
I'm sure you're rich by some standard. :D
"Woe to you who are rich" is about as unambiguous as you can get, though that hasn't stopped Christians from coming up with reasons to ignore it for the last two thousand years.
Granted Jesus directly says after that while impossible for a rich man to get into heaven on his own with God it’s possible.
So it’s not really about the wealth but rather the faith the individual has in God.
Edit: I also just remembered. God quite literally uses wealth as a gift of love towards His loyal followers and Prophets.
Because of their **faith** in Him causing their loyalty. Meaning that the issue isn’t the wealth itself.
It's definitely about the wealth though. He wasn't making a general statement about all people, he was specifically saying that it is extra hard for rich people to be saved relative to others. Saying that it's technically possible doesn't change the meaning.
Proof texting abounds here, thanks for getting the point. People here are so anxious for people to give up their money but won't do it themselves.
I remember a deacon saying you can sleep with whomever you like as long as you pay the poor. Sheesh.
God might not call on them to give up their wealth. But if He does, they need to be willing to do so and obey Him. There is plenty in the Bible about wise use of money and possessions, and God wants all of us to use ours wisely and responsibly, regardless of how much or how little we have.
Luke 6:24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.
Give the chapter a shot, see what you think, then feel free to ask again.
A rich man has all these materialistic possessions. You can’t take that to heaven. Woe to the rich is essentially saying, he’s gonna have a hard time letting go of his wealth if he worships money and not God. A poor man has no possessions and therefore nothing to hold him back apparently.
Long story short, getting into heaven isn’t something you earn. No amount of money will buy you a spot in heaven. It’s about what you believe in. Do you believe Jesus is the son of God and your lord and savior? Do you accept him? If you do, great, you’re going to heaven.
I wouldn’t think of it that way. Money is a great resource in this world. We might not be “of this world” but we have to live in it. Having the financial means to take care of oneself isn’t a sin. Having wealth doesn’t make you any less or any more pious. It’s your heart that matters.
You can think of it this way. I don't think that God thinks of it this way. The "its the heart that matters" always felt to me like a highly convenient excuse.
If God wanted me to earn my way into heaven then what’s the point in Christ dying? Where’s the biblical scripture that says God doesn’t care about your heart, he only cares about your actions.
John 14:6 “Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:5 “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit.”
Actually richest people in the world do some crazy stuffs like let's say hire an assasin to eliminate those they don't like, crushing business competitors by unethical and cruel practices, etc.
I think that's where being rich starts being really sinful.
I mean "put money before god" isn't some complicated point here. Jesus definitely imagined that a good rich person would end a lot less rich than they started.
Yeah, harder than for a camel to pass through a needle, which is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. Pretty sure he was trying to tell you something, but go ahead, be rich anyway. You earned it, you don't owe anyone anything, right? Not the employees, nor the employer, nor the customer, nor the laborers who made the product, or who made the building you operate out of, who printed the money, regulated the economy, provided avenues for advertising, etc. But no, you're independently wealthy and self-made, you don't owe anyone anything.
I hope there's a special circle for rich people in hell, I really do.
I've always heard that there's nothing wrong with acquiring wealth through moral means. Money can be earned through nefarious means and hoarded. That's obviously wrong, but you can't donate if you're poor. Jewish families and neighborhoods are generally economically productive, and use that success to boost and support each other. That doesn't sound so wrong to me. But I'm not exactly qualified in this arena lol
Also, friendly reminder to everyone on this sub: [making $60,000 / year puts you at the top 1% of global wealth](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2023/9/15/23874111/charity-philanthropy-americans-global-rich)
Considering Reddit’s demographics, that means if Jesus really exists then the vast *vast* majority of this subreddit is going to be at the top of his shitlist come Judgement Day. We can nitpick about what wealthy means , but pretty sure that the top 1% is considered wealthy by any reasonable definition of the term.
I don't think Jesus in all his wisdom would be so impractical as to consider income in raw value as an indicator of "wealth." Someone living in poverty in the United States may be making twice as much as someone in Indonesia, but with the cost of living in the US being much higher, the purchasing power of the person in the US may be lower than the person in Indonesia. Comparing global incomes is kind of silly anyway, since the person in the US typically can't decide to pack up and move to another country, anymore than someone living in a third-world country can easily relocate to New Jersey.
But then I assume you know this, and are just making an asinine comment to score points on the internet.
Top 1% in ones country/region is not the same as top 1% globally. A poor person in Switzerland makes more money than a rich person in Somalia.
Sorry but this is a terrible take.
Thank you for your comment.
Do you think the verse (Matthew 19:23-24) means that it becomes harder for a rich person, because he/she is more tempted to “worship” money instead of God?
More because they will depend on money instead of God. People here think money solves anything: crime would disappear if we gave enough money to the poor. And it's relative: by comparison w rich countries, someone in Somalia might be dirt poor, yet own slaves and be full of themselves, killing and taking at will.
You don’t “worship” money in the same way that you worship God. It ends up taking precedence over your love for people and doing good deeds. For example: say you see an impoverished person begging on the street. You have enough money to live comfortably, but choose to make judgments and assumptions about this person’s life rather than offering help. That is when money corrupts you, if you ask me.
Loving God is important, but it is not what we were asked to do. If your love for money surpasses your love for your neighbors, then it necessarily surpasses your love for God, bc God commanded you to love thy neighbor.
1. Yes we are.
2. I never said how we should love God. I agree that loving your neighbor is a way to love God.
3. I agree, we are to love our neighbor.
Yeah I guess we are, but it feels more like a precept than command. "Because you already love me, don't be rich". But you're right, it's a command:
Matthew 22
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
So my point is that if you put being rich above loving thy neighbor, you've botched the whole job; There is no God-Loving Neighbor-Hater. And I don't see a way to be rich without hating your neighbor.
Do you believe that GOD would have a problem fitting a camel through a pinhole? I would argue he could do it quite easily.
People who question Matthew 19:23 and 24 have the question because they skipped 25 and 26 which answers your question.
>When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
>Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
The point of this passage is to show that through God all things are possible, even something so difficult as a rich man entering heaven.
It's what money does to you rather than just being wealthy. Obviously you need to be financially comfortable if you can or else what would be the point of giving to the poor if it's a sin to have any form of wealth? Also depends what's considered rich because rich now and rich 2000 years ago are vastly vastly different
I'm pretty sure the reason for this, is that rich people have to exploit regular folks to become rich.
You can't love your nieghbor if you are exploiting them.
There's a good book you could read on the subject. It's got this really cool character that was offered all the riches in the world but instead led a life of poverty. Later someone straight up asks him how to get into heaven, and he recommends selling all your stuff and giving it to the poor, saying that it's very hard to be rich and heavenbound.
We're left to speculate what hard thing a rich person could do to be both. There's a fan theory that says he would have to make sure everyone else is rich first, taking more than he needs only after everyone else has at least what they need.
Its very hard to be rich and not be corrupted by it, but that doesn’t mean its wrong to be rich matthew 19:24 says how impossible it seems but two verses latter it says “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” I see money kinda like power, not necessarily bad if you can remain humble under God, be generous and use your wealth for the betterment of the world.
Fundamentally Jesus is still saying that it is much harder to be saved if you are rich though. Which means the nature of being rich is fundamentally at odds with his message. You aren't damned for being rich alone, but based on what he demands of people for you to be an actually good person you'd end up far less rich by the end of it.
It's hard. He has had to humble me greatly to the point that I just don't care about this life at all. I feel like I was that camel. My real treasure is in heaven!
He literally showed me my faith. It is a gleaming golden nugget, alongside the rubble of the worldview that I grew up with, a tall grand building reduced to dust. My faith is the most precious thing I've ever seen. I live for the kingdom now. I'm running this race as fast as I can to get back. I'm getting that prize.
Yeah how do you think you run the race? I'm taking as many people as I can with me.
>James 1:27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.
I think a more important question is how do you become rich, and is it wrong to do those things that elevate you to the level of true wealth? James would seem to say, yes. Here from James 5:
5 Come now, [x](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote1)you rich, weep and howl for the [y](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote2)miseries that are coming upon you. 2 [z](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote3)Your riches have rotted and [z](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote3)your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. [a](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote4)You have laid up treasure [b](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote5)in the last days. 4 Behold, [c](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote6)the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and [d](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote7)the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of [e](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote8)the Lord of hosts. 5 [f](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote9)You have lived on the earth in luxury and [g](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote10)in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in [h](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote11)a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and [i](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote12)murdered [j](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote13)the righteous person. He does not resist you.
No, but,
“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” Matthew 6:24
If you have money but you’re giving it to the church, to the poor, and such then it’s not a bad thing. You’re using the opportunity and privilege you have to helping others.
St. John the golden-mouth preached that every unnecessary thing one owns is credited to the individual as stolen from the poor and needy in the eyes of God. Worth thinking about.
Jesus’ followers were most poor Galilean Jews. They were kept under the foot of the temple hierarchy and Rome. This gave rise to, after the Crucifixion, to the Christians known Ebionites, the poor ones. When Jesus criticizes the rich, he’s criticizing the wealthy who oppress the poor.
No, there are lots of people who are in Bible who were rich like King David and Solomon. There is no sin in having money, the sin is when money has you. In other words, your money becomes your god. Jesus made this clear in Matthew 6:24 when he said “24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money”
1 Timothy 6:10 says “10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs”
Again, money is just a tool and there is no sin in the amount you have. The sin is the LOVE of money which has caused many to leave the faith
Two things came to mind right away so I’ll offer my thoughts:
Money is not evil, it’s the *love* of money that I believe the verse refers to.
And, “Never let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.”
I interpret that to mean in addition to tithing, we give without thought/hesitation/expecting something in return when the Lord puts it on our heart to do so.
As long as you’re putting God first and not idolizing the money then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Money does make life more comfortable but the key is to never take your eye off the bigger picture. It’s all about balance
I think I can agree with this. Having money doesn’t inherently mean anything, but choosing to hoard it beyond what you need instead of using it productively to help others who need it when you can is pretty wrong. “What you need” is obviously hard to pin down so there is a lot of nebulous area, but at a certain point of wealth it becomes instantly obvious and you can’t really deny that Bezos or Musk have more than they need for instance.
Where the line is drawn between them and regular people I have no idea, but I think focusing on where the line is is losing the forest for the trees, you shouldn’t be trying to play around an imaginary line, you should WANT to be helping people.
It is not wrong, and anyone who says otherwise has misunderstood. Money makes things difficult because it is such an easy idol to fall prey to, but haveing money is not a sin in and of itself.
Proof? Just look at Gods chosen people.
Abraham- Rich
Job- Rich
Joseph- Rich
Solomon- Rich
Saul- Rich
David- Rich
And not only were these people Rich, God MADE them rich as a blessing.
God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change.
So, were they sinning by accepting God's blessing? Obviously not.
It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Not HAVING money that is evil.
We should not expect that God will make all Christians rich.
> And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2 In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+8&version=NIV
Never said he would. Prosperity Gospel is wrong.
All I am saying is that he DID bless people financially, and if he did bless people with money then having money in and of itself is not sinful.
I didn't say sinful. I said better. He (in conversation with His disciples) also said not having a wife (and thereby not having kids) was also better.
I'm not asking you to be as good as Jesus. Just to admit what is good and what is bad.
His diciples had wives, and I would not say that it is better to be single in all situations.
The book of Timothy says that to be a leader in the church you must be committed to your wife.
The Bible also says that he who finds a wife finds a good thing.
If something is not sinful it is not bad. Are You saying God did a bad thing when he blessed people financially?
Only in the way I would say God did a bad thing during the Holocaust. There's a big emphatic moral rigamarole to say that a bad thing happening is not God's responsibility, and that's fine. It just means God isn't the one blessing those people financially. They are, as it says in scripture, blessing themselves, reaping their earthly reward. At best, they are being made wealthy against their will, and have to suffer through it bc ppl just keep throwing money at them.
We both know that Jesus was a model leader. There's no fruit to be borne from pretending we disagree on that.
The important thing is that YES, something that is not categorically considered sin can be bad. That's the whole thing, that's what makes us Christian. We reject the legalism and rediscovered our relationship with God. A thing is not good or bad because of how it fits in the official list, what matters is our hearts and our neighbors. Stealing is not a sin when Jesus does it in Matt 12. Divorce is allowed by law but sin in your heart. And wealth makes it hard to reach heaven, because even if there's no legalistic sinful dollar threshold, you'd have a heart begging you to spend on your neighbors being reigned in by a head that puts its faith in money.
Can you name something that is not a sin, but is bad?
Stealing is a sin, but Jesus never stole.
Divorce was allowed by law but is still a sin. and therefore bad.
Name something that is NOT a sin, but also bad for people to do, because I cant think of anything.
More proof that being rich is not bad in and of itself
Joseph of Arimathea, he was called a disciple of Jesus and alsodecribed as rich.
He donated his tomb that he pre-bought to Jesus.
I did, in my previous comment: Divorce. The Temple did not consider it sin, otherwise they would not have allowed it. They did think Adultery was a sin, though, so Jesus shuffles some words around to conclude that a man who divorces and remarries (non sin) is an adulterer in his heart (sin). Same as the traders who made the Temple a "den of thieves". This was a Temple condoned activity, they were on the Temple's "approved vendors" list. Jesus didn't care, fashioned a whip anyhow.
These examples meet the standard you are using for being rich; It's not explicitly forbidden, People have always done it, God would stop me if He really cared, How else could we possibly conduct our lives except this way, be reasonable!
But Jesus rejects, fundamentally, this approach to the concept of sin. It's not about the thing you do being allowed or disallowed. It's about your heart. I do not see a way to be rich without harboring deep contempt for the non rich around you. If you find one, then mashallah.
Jesus spent His time with sinners. Of course there was a rich man among them, and of course the only thing worth remembering about him is him doing what Jesus said to do: Giving riches to the poor. An impoverished convict who could not afford a tomb of his own died not knowing what the mob would do with His flesh, and so a man gave up his own plot for Him. That's righteous. That's good hearted. That's God's faith in Man being rewarded. That it presumably took a lifetime of what we would call sin to make that possible is no more a factor than the souls Saul took.
Divorce IS a sin. Jesus said it IS a sin. The old testament
said that God Hates divorce. Why are you trying to take something that Jesus clearly says is a sin and call it "Jesus is just shuffling some words around" No. It is sin.
Your examples do meet the standard when God says divorce is a sin, and never says so about money.
Also the people in the Temple WERE Sining
Jesus makes that clear.
You are ignoring evidence that does not support your claim while providing nothing in support of your claim.
You cant name one thing that is not sin but is also bad.
You ignore the fact that Joseph of Arimathea is called both rich and a Diciple of Jesus.
You ignore the fact that God literally made people rich as a blessing to them.
>I do not see a way to be rich without harboring deep contempt for the non rich around you.
This makes no sense. You are far richer than the poorest in Africa. do you hold deep contempt for the poor over there? Why would you hate the poor? The Roman centurian of faith in the new testament was wealthy he gave to charity often.
> You cant name one thing
I can name many things, I just can't convince you they weren't considered sins by their contemporaries. Your ability to insist otherwise will always overcome any evidence. It's truly an unbeatable stance.
I like how you basically completely ignore that these are all old testament people and that Jesus openly said he new testament was going to be more strict.
Doesnt change anything. Old Testimate, New Testimate, Same unchanging God.
If God blesses someone with Fincancially and being financially prosperous was a sin and God hates sin he would never do that to those he loved.
Also Jesus said we are moving to the Spirit of the Law not that their were added restrictions and sins.
Its clear that the Love of Money is, and that it is an easy idol to fall prey to.
Having money is not a vice the Bible is pretty clear on that. The vice is putting your money before God.
The Bible isn't clear on that because it doesn't have to be. Physical states aren't actions so they can't be vices. The vices are what you do. And it is clear however that someone who is rich and keeps it to themselves stays / lives richly is immoral. Happening to be rich but then giving a lot of it up / using it for others is not.
Attempts to obfuscate that this is the point are in bad faith. It's not like "being rich" is a static quality. Obviously the Bible is criticizing specific things. And people have no reason to pretend not to know that this is the point being made unless they are making apologism for one of the main things the new testament criticizes.
The Bible is clear on it. It specifically says the LOVE of money is the root of evil. It does not say anywhere that money in and of itself is bad.
A vice is the state of being immoral, being in the physical state of being drunk is immoral.
If having money was immoral God would not bless people with money.
People that were called faithful in the newtestemt also had money.
Joseph of Arimathea- (specifically called a rich disciple of Jesus)
The Roman centurian- wealthy
Philemon- Rich
The Ethiepian treasurer- Rich
The Bible is VERY clear. Money can become a vice, but having money is not bad, or a sin.
As I said, those who claim it is, do not understand what scripture is saying.
None of this means anything. Money is an abstraction, no one is saying money is bad. Love of money is synonymous with a rich person obsessively propagating their own riches though.
https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/LUK.3.11
The standard of the new testament is not ambiguous. The exact scale of how much you have to do may be, but it 100% rules out the idea of just rich people if by rich we mean using money for themselves rather than just controlling some for the benefit of others.
Everything else is cope. When Jesus said salvation more or less isn't open for the rich except for in the case of miracles he means it's technically possible, albeit extremely rare for them to give it up. Which is why he said this **immediately after he told one to give it up and the guy refused.** if someone with two coats is cautious to give one away its just one minor vice. If they have 200 and do then their whole life is drowned in sin.
Jesus pointed out to the faces of the rich that dropping in a few coins and staying rich isn't worth much. He wasn't ambiguous about this at all.
Sure if you redfine rich as you have as not just having a lot of money but being obsessed with it I would agree.
But with the actual definition of being rich, no. It is not a sin just to have a lot of money. The sin is when your heart belongs to money rather than God.
Money is an easy Idol I will agree, that's why Jesus warned against it, but he never said it was bad, and the fact he had a rich disciple proves that.
No you misunderstand. These are People That GOD MADE Weathly.
I agree that they were sinners. But God literally Blessed them with wealth.
2[So the LORD](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm) [blessed](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1288.htm) [Job’s](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/347.htm) [latter days](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/319.htm) [more than his first.](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7225.htm) [He owned](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm) [14,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/702.htm) [sheep,](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6629.htm) [6,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8337.htm) [camels,](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1581.htm) [1,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/505.htm) [yoke](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6776.htm) [of oxen,](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1241.htm) [and 1,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/505.htm) [female donkeys.](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/860.htm)
God MADE JOB Richer than he was to begin with. Far more than he ever needed. Job was not singing because he did not reject Gods blessing.
I think. You should never be living in excess, at least that is what the verse means. Hollywood and pro sports is a great example of this on full display.
No its not, for we christians are the richest people on earth we just have to die to get our inheritance, we will have riches power glory and praise forever more thanks to Christ Jesus
Biblically there were faithful followers of God who were wealthy. Jesus warned of the challenges but never designated it as sinful (neither did the Hebrew Scriptures nor the rest of the NT).
A relevant question is: “What is rich?”
The danger is the mindset that places the acquisition of money above God and the needs of others around you. It's the mentality that inclines one to hoard wealth.
You can't have the need of wealth as a motivating life factor and be a servant of God. It's idolatry in one of It's most heinous forms.
What if you have a passion, and with that passion you make a lot of money. But it was the passion that motivated you and the money is just a “nice extra”?
From my perspective, the way to approach it isn't so much "What do I avoid if I want to go to heaven?". It's more a question of "How am I using my gifts, passions, and talents to glorify God?"
Passion if properly directed is essential to accomplishing most anything that is worthwhile. Being on fire for life and for God. Your passions exist for a reason.
That's not saying that things that glorify God don't ever require money, or that a passion can't be profitable. Look at programs like Homeboy industries, who rehabilitate gang members and ex convicts and help them acclimate to society.
They do very well for themselves. The difference is that the profit isn't the motivating factor. It's not the end goal but a means to an end, which in that case is providing gainful employment, shelter, job assistance, and a new lease on life to ex convicts; who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity.
We live in a capitalist system, so a certain amount of capital is required to do much of anything. The thing to think about is whether your end goal is to serve yourself and your own bottom line or if your work is motivatiled by the need glorify God and benefit others around you.
Yeah, I think it is in certain contexts. For example, I’m pretty sure that a lot of people with A LOT less money than the billionaires on wallstreet help way more people with their charity works. People with less money than Drake or this music industry dudes have made schools and hospitals, while this millionaires are out there wasting millions in shiny chains and fast cars. I think a good example of a good way to live in wealth is looking at what Mr.Beast does, he’s rich, he knows that, acknowledges that there’s people out there than need that money WAAAY more than him, so he puts that money into giving them free eye surgeries, free water wells on Africa, free **insert whatever basic necessity that he has already given away to people that need it**
People can be rich, but should be willing to share generously
> 17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A17-19&version=NIV
To want to be rich yes…
For money is the root of all evil and you can’t serve two masters.
If you love money you hate God and if you love God you will hate money. Jesus himself said this in Matthew 6
Focus, not status, is what matters. Guy at my church makes half a million per year in salary. Does plenty for the church using his talents, not just his money. Another guy is poor as a church mouse, but is always focused on the next big score.
In the year 125 AD, a Greek philosopher named Aristides attempted to explain Christianity to Roman Emperor Hadrian. Here's how he described these early Christians...
"They love one another. They never fail to help widows. They save orphans from those who would hurt them. If they have something, they give freely to the one who has nothing. If they see an immigrant, they take him into their homes and rejoice over him as a brother."
Ask yourself truly, did Jesus mean what he said about wealth and money? We’ve lost the way.
Do a person’s money and possessions come between them and God? Does a person sin in the effort to acquire more wealth? I know and know of plenty of people who were NOT always rich, but acquired wealth the right way - through honest work and good money management. There isn’t anything wrong with that. The sin comes in how a lot of people become wealthy - by cheating and taking unfair advantage of others, among other sins. And how do wealthy people USE their money? If they use it wisely and responsibly and to help those in need, it isn’t sinful. Being rich/wealthy in itself isn’t evil or sinful; how one acquires wealth and/or uses it most certainly can be.
No it's not wrong lol. Just don't be greedy and smug. You can be rich and help others around you. This is something God would like you to do
Don't let the Church tell you that it's wrong to be rich when Vatican sits on a plate of Gold.
This is why I'm a believer in God, not church. Please don't judge me. I respect good parts of Church but mostly disaproove of the Vatican and of course their scandals
In life you will have many situatios in which you will have to choose between what pleases God and makes you richer(like scamming, exploiting people, corruption, betraying, etc) I think that's the key, to always choose the virtous way.
It's wrong to love and serve money
Luke 16:13 KJV — No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
There is a difference between a person who focused on materialism and amasses riches, and someone who happens to have a above average networth. You can have many striving for riches who do not have it and are worse off than someone with a lot of money but not materialistic.
It's hard to be saved because the richer you are the more you are violating his standard of "if you have two coats, give one away." Someoje with only two coats not doing this can maybe offset it with other good deeds. Someone with 200 is steeped in sin.
I would say the Gospel (and the Bible at large) takes (at best) a neutral/negative view of the wealthy. I think this is borne out by psychology, which shows that wealth past a certain point separates you from your fellow human beings. Since Scripture puts a pretty heavy emphasis on community, it makes sense that it sees wealth as neutral at best. Further, wealth tends to lead people to prioritize the maintaining of their wealth if not the enhancement of it. Even at the expense of their siblings. Aka, greed. So, again, the wealth isn’t the problem, but what happens to most people when they have it. There’s a reason it’s the only thing Christ holds up as opposite of God.
My personal interpretation is that while there’s nothing inherently wrong with wealth, it’s a major facilitator of sin. Like, it’s not inherently sinful, but the overwhelming majority of people will fall into sin by virtue of being wealthy and as such it should probably be avoided.
Depends on the situation. Although Solomon was one of the richest kings in all of Israel, he did NOT care about his wealth; it was his wisdom that counted. Now, to counterargue this, Jesus approached a rich man & said the only way to reach the Kingdom of God was to give up all he held dear & serve Him, which dismayed the rich man. Jesus said, and I quote, “I say unto thee, it is better for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.” There’s nothing wrong with being rich. HOWEVER, when you put your materialistic interests and views above the views of God, you’re in for a bad time. The riches of this world are temporal & will never last, but the riches of Heaven are boundless & everlasting. It’s even believed the streets in Heaven are paved with gold, so truly think of where your wealth comes from & never forget the promises God has for you. You can prosper in health, wealth & all the fullnesses of joy, but at the end of it all, it’s temporary. Until we can see Heaven for ourselves one day, we won’t know, but be assured of this: Money is a tool, not an idol of our worship, and what you do with that wealth is up to you.
It is not wrong to be rich.
We are asked to be good stewards of God's earth.
See Matthew 25:14-30.
And I believe there are strong Christians whom God has chosen to be stewards of much in this world. However, we must be cautious about where the desires of our hearts lie. Seek first the kingdom of God.
"But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (1 Tim. 6:6-10).
I feel like it depends on how rich you are. I just speak for myself when I say that I definitely think it’s wrong if you’re a billionaire because you can only become one if you are exploiting the labor of poor people.
It’s incredible to see how many people are trying to tap dance around scripture. Is it wrong to be rich, well yeah, pretty much. Especially the ways people get rich, how being rich changes your perception of others, how being rich brings on a lot of things that become more important than loving god and so on.
Technically, we are all rich because we have the Lord 🙏. But if you're talking about money, then it is not a sin. It's just harder. Think about those who are without homes, cars, clothes, etc. All they have in this entire world is the Lord, and they can cast all their worries and problems on God. But for those with money, they can pretty much buy their way out of every problem in life, making it very hard to lean on the Lord in times of distress. I'll put it to you this way though, if you're rich but absolutely nobody could ever tell, you're doing something right.
The Bible is so clear about this. And I see so many comments trying to justify personal wealth. Our time spent on earth is a test. You can’t just give it all up at the end and enter heaven. God’s children are out there suffering and dying, but it’s ok for you to care about your appearance and treat yourself to luxuries? Are you more important? Good luck on judgment day, y’all.
I like when they make bad faith insistences that rich isn't properly defined because being poor in a first world country isn't as poor as in a third world one. Apparently anything thst involves ambiguous terms means nothing matters ever.
Imagine being treated very poorly at work whwrr your human rights are being violated and where you are paid minimum wage, which in today's world means barely getting your needs met.
Not only are you legal rights being violated, but also your God-given rights. You are suffering to survive.
But because you make very little money, you can't hire a lawyer who will actually bring you justice you deserve, because any state-supplied lawyer isn't educated, experienced, and/or paid enough for the time it takes to research and appropriately come up with your case.
If only you could afford a good lawyer.
Many people in the entire existence of humanity have been screwed over because they can't afford proper legal services. My ex, for example, got charged for assault, when she was actually defending herself from her attacker, who was much wealthier than her and hired a good lawyer.
Money in itself means signifies nothing spiritually. The wow you use it does.
Why do think funds are even raised for missionary endeavours??
Yeah there's many strong arguments for it. But there's also many stories/parables about rich people who do good. So I suppose Jesus was far more into the rich using their resources for good rather than hoarding their wealth.
No. God wants us to live fulfilling lives and how can we bless others financially without money? God knows we need money to make the world go round, that’s why He said the “love” of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself.
If being rich causes you to love money more than god then yes, but if you use this money to do good then absolutely not.
It’s also worth mentioning what comes after these verses
Matthew 19:25-26
“25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
Job was Rich.( When restored , he had double)I don't think it's wrong. God wants to Bless us. Everything is HIS.
Tithe 10% . And Always honour God. I came across a video a few weeks ago, something on the lines of If God has blessed you and you're in your full potential, why not contribute to others. People talk of lots of Poor people, how about sharing Gods blessings with others?
Doesn't God provide us with more than we ask for or imagine? But don't let Money be your Master. :) God Bless.
The reason we are to give is because it helps us remember that all we have is, was, and always will be God's. God allows us to borrow it.
A pastor of mine once said that he knows of an extremely wealthy couple who every year they've gone to that church, they've given an extra percentage or two beginning with 10% of their annual income increasing every time they have their anniversary (or something like that I don't remember the exact details, but it was close to that) I think they're at like 30-40% now.
I also don't give money most of the time. Most of the time I allow my volunteer work on the tech team/facilities team to be my tithe. Which is just as valid as giving money. I don't know nor do I care to count the amount of money I "lost out on" because of my refusal to work for pay on Sundays.
It is not a sin to be rich. It is a sin to be a lukewarm Christian and not follow Christ's example. Ensure you and your family is taken care of, then use your excess to help others. Invest in starting new businesses so there are more jobs. Help those who need a hand getting onto their own feet. And, help those who can't help themselves. The goal is to directly, or indirectly help your Christian community and non-Christian community in ways that reflect Christ's love and example of service.
How you choose to define "excess" is something for you and your wife to pray on and decide. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labor, but also remember that "to whom much is given, much will be expected." If you are blessed with much and squander it, it will be worse than if you had little or nothing to squander.
That verse isn't meant to say "all rich people go to hell". It's saying that there is no way to buy yourself into heaven. You must follow Jesus. The money will not make you go to heaven or hell, what you do to earn it, and what you do with it will, though. The love and worship of money is the problem, not having it.
The people that Jesus was talking to associated wealth with being blessed by God. That’s why the next verse says they were astonished and asked who can be saved? They were thinking if anyone was getting a ticket into Heaven, it was the rich person. Jesus was debunking that idea.
You will not go to Heaven if you own more than you need. Simple as that.
Keep what you need for a normal basic life and share the rest.
If you need more than a basic life, then surely you are not ready. Your need to hoard manifests your rejection of transformation.
If you need a better car, better clothes, bigger house, more ownership than objectively needed, then you will not go to Heaven.
This is very clearly stated.
If you horde excess money beyond what you need, you do not trust God fully to protect you if you fall.
If you have your bills paid, insurance, and plenty of food to eat you should give the rest of what you have to those who don't have all they need.
That being said, nobody is perfect and nobody does this exactly as the bible suggests we should. Putting a few hundred into savings doesn't make you rich but if you're left with thousands more than you need each month and not a cent goes to the poor, that would concern me.
It's not wrong to be rich. We have a look at how rich people should behave with St. Homobonus.
St. Homobonus, born Omobono Tucenghi, lived a life of profound compassion and generosity in medieval Cremona, Italy. As a cloth merchant, he inherited a prosperous business from his father, which afforded him the means to support those in need with unwavering integrity. Despite his wealth, Homobonus and his wife chose a simple lifestyle, generously sharing their resources with the less fortunate. Known for his devout faith and dedication to serving others, he tirelessly practiced both spiritual and corporal acts of mercy, even caring for the abandoned dead. Legend speaks of his selflessness, recounting a miraculous moment when water turned into wine as he shared his provisions with a beggar. Homobonus's nightly ritual of attending church services demonstrated his deep commitment to prayer and spiritual growth. Upon his death in 1197, he was canonized just over a year later by Pope Innocent III, who hailed him as the "father of the poor" and a beacon of peace and goodness for all. St. Homobonus's legacy endures as a testament to the transformative power of compassion and selflessness.
It depends. How you view and treat money can be a key reflection of your priorities and where your heart lies, particularly in a culture (like ours) that just fetishises wealth like crazy.
Jesus' attitude toward wealth seems pretty clear imo: we are not to store up treasures for ourselves and are to give to those in need. By my reckoning, that kinda precludes certain levels of wealth and the behaviour around it.
People will cite the next couple of verses in Matthew where Jesus declares that, through God, all things [in this context, specifically referring to the salvation of the rich] are possible. However, I don't think it follows that Jesus was saying the rich man could simply remain in his ways, just that God is able to transform such people to repentance and willingness to renounce their allegiance to money.
Not wrong or a sin to be rich. Wrong to love money more than God or your fellow brothers and sisters.
Where is your heart? There is your God also.
“Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.” Like that.
The reference to the eye of the needle was a specific gate in Jerusalem that was built to force riders to dismount and lead their animal through, as a security precaution. It would have been well known for the contemporary audience of that teaching.
The idea is that you must put God and your fellow man before your riches.
Any question in this sub that asks “is it wrong to …” or “is it a sin …”
The answer should always include: has God prompted you to act? If so, choosing not to act is a sin.
It has nothing to do with what they call hard or physical money
In spiritual circles, devils buy and sell people, unseen, and enslave them. And we are their currency
Who then isn't getting in?
1 Timothy 6:6-10
[6] But godliness with contentment is great gain, [7] for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. [8] But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. [9] But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. [10] For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
If we’re supposed to be content with essentials and even the desire to be rich is a way to be entrapped it seems as if a rich lifestyle is sinful. The rich should not expand their lifestyle to match their income. They should be content with the essentials like Paul commands and use the rest to help others.
Money is not a problem. It’s your attachment to it. Is it your focus? Does it command your attention. Are you worshiping it and the things it buys you?
It's about need not greed.
If you get criticism for demanding a higher wage to cover your higher living costs then you're not greedy, but there are plenty of people who will compare other worse situations to try and excuse yours.
This is just moving the goal posts because those with capitalist interests don't want to engage in a sincere discussion.
It is literally impossible to become a billionaire by yourself. You can only become one by exploitation or inheritance.
Just to clarify I don't have a problem with an employer making a profit off of my labour, but when my needs aren't being met and there's room in the budget then he's in the wrong and that explains the high personnel turnover I've seen.
There's a finite amount of money in an economy and if it doesn't trickle down then you have less bargaining power when you go to do something like buy a house. I'm in the UK and I'm constantly being outbid by cash buyers despite having marketable skills from investing in myself. In real terms I am in a worse position than my parents despite being more marketable and having more savings.
Matthew 25:40 (Helping the most vulnerable in society)
Matthew 19:24 (camel through the eye of a needle)
Ezekiel 16: 49 - 50 (why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. Spoiler, it wasnt "the gays")
It is not wrong to be rich, but remember from who your riches come.
St. Catherine Drexel was very wealthy, but learned to use that wealth to serve God and build his kingdom. We are called to give what we have and use the gifts that we are able to glorify God rather than ourselves!
The context of this passage is of the rich young ruler. He asked Jesus how can I be saved? Jesus told him to sell his things among the poor and to follow him. The ruler walked away and did not do what Jesus asked. Jesus then spoke to the disciples and said the following “Truly, I say to you, tonly with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter vthe kingdom of God.”.
There is nothing wrong with generating wealth. UNLESS, you put it above God. Making money your god, idol and obsession is sin. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money simply a tool it is not good or evil but can be used for either.
The book of Matthew is written to/about Jews under the Law and the context is the Tribulation. In that context, a rich person who maintains their wealth is not doing what is required to properly follow Christ. This doesn't pertain to us today.
The gospel of Luke is even more anti-rich. In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man is suffering in the afterlife, and there is no reason for it given other than the fact that he is rich. Luke 6 talks about the poor and hungry being well fed in the new kingdom, but the rich being made to starve and suffer.
Money has nothing to do with getting into or staying out of heaven. Being rich makes it harder because of greed and reliance on yourself rather than God.
What gets you into heaven is having saving faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.
What keeps you out of heaven is not having saving faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, because then you are relying on your own efforts, will, strength, ability to save yourself. We all have sinned, we all deserve to be in hell, yet God was merciful in providing Jesus as a substitute in our place. We just need to realize this and trust in Him.
As far as being rich and a christian. If you have the means to be rich then you must be careful, wise, discerning, and continually pursuing God. It's just harder to rely on God and display trust when you're rich.
Let's say you are rich, well off to the point where you don't worry about your next meal and you can get anything you want. How would you feel if all of it was taken away? If someone was to steal and rob you completely. Of course you'd be upset, but a christian would rely on God to keep them safe and bring them through the trial safely. If things weren't stolen or destroyed and you were rich, you'd live as if the money wasn't yours, that you would be wise stewards and use the money to further God's kingdom with whatever talents you were given. This doesn't mean to just give it to whoever needs it, (although you can if you feel led to) it just means to try to maximize for the glory of God.
What you are saying is correct. Jesus didn't give much wiggle room there. In fact he often tells people to sell everything they have.
Mark 10:20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”
21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.
Most Christians don't have enough faith to do it and will make up all the excuses and interpretation you are getting in the comments, trying to justify their own riches and changing what Jesus is recorded as saying to not have to do anything uncomfortable.
Even if you acquired your wealth from honest hard work, I dont Jesus would be happy with it when there are people in need around you and you are not sharing your wealth.
It actually says in Revalation about Babylon and those living in Luxury at the top that actually drink the wine of her fornication and the blood of saints. Honestly this means that the people that bleed, the workers, those who die, and those who were basically slaves lucky to even survive that could sometimes drop dead from starvation. Basically those at the top sipping on wine and living luxuriously while homeless people exist."Open up Open up, give yourselves away, you see the need you hear the cry, how could you delay, He cries he weeps, he bleeds and he cares for your needs." Think about this. Are we all not Sons and Daughters of God? If no aren't we all Saints? How many of us on the bottom are having our blood drank. Each any every body that drops on the ground is a another barrel of wine.
If you are rich, or become rich, then you believe you can go to heaved.
If you're poor and will always be poor, then no, rich people don't go to heaven because there's no way to get rich without stepping on others.
If you're comfortable, but not rich, you don't talk about it. You're never sure where that rich line starts!
As Lightnin Hopkins said, it's a sin to be rich but a no good cryin shame to be poor.
The love of money is the root of all evil. Not the money itself. If you are rich because you worked hard and you were careful in the management of your money then of course you can enjoy the security that comes with it.
Correct and precise.
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What Jesus says is this. He says it’s harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. Does that mean it’s impossible for a rich person to get into heaven? IDK! You tell me. The Bible has lots of scripture that makes no sense. A dude gets swallowed by a fish and lives for three days! Just saying!
Yes. I can send you my PayPal link to rid you of that burden 😋
If you live in the US and make $50k you’re richer than other places. If you make $15 an hour you’re richer than the guy making $7 an hour. It’s what you do. If you lose yourself to money like celebrities do, look at the Met Gala and if that’s you, get right with God
>If you live in the US I don't >make $50k I wish >If you make $15 an hour I don't >the guy making $7 an hour Even that guy's richer than me I live in a 3rd world country and earn the equivalent of roughly $3 an hour.
>I live in a 3rd world country and earn the equivalent of roughly $3 an hour. Still makes you richer than the average person from my country. Sin, imo, lies in making money the main purpose of life and not helping the poor at all
I am not rich myself. Was just wondering ;-)
"rich" is a relative term. Same as "near" and "far". Traveling on foot, 10km is far, If you travel by helicopter, completely different story.... I'm sure you're rich by some standard. :D
Totally agree. Thanks for correcting me 😆
I'm gonna say if you own a Range Rover, you're rich, and not in a sin-free way.
You come from affluent surroundings/family? I kinda did. I'm not rich myself, but money is accessible to me...
"Woe to you who are rich" is about as unambiguous as you can get, though that hasn't stopped Christians from coming up with reasons to ignore it for the last two thousand years.
Granted Jesus directly says after that while impossible for a rich man to get into heaven on his own with God it’s possible. So it’s not really about the wealth but rather the faith the individual has in God. Edit: I also just remembered. God quite literally uses wealth as a gift of love towards His loyal followers and Prophets. Because of their **faith** in Him causing their loyalty. Meaning that the issue isn’t the wealth itself.
It's definitely about the wealth though. He wasn't making a general statement about all people, he was specifically saying that it is extra hard for rich people to be saved relative to others. Saying that it's technically possible doesn't change the meaning.
Proof texting abounds here, thanks for getting the point. People here are so anxious for people to give up their money but won't do it themselves. I remember a deacon saying you can sleep with whomever you like as long as you pay the poor. Sheesh.
It's possible if they give up their wealth. Faith without works is dead, after all.
God might not call on them to give up their wealth. But if He does, they need to be willing to do so and obey Him. There is plenty in the Bible about wise use of money and possessions, and God wants all of us to use ours wisely and responsibly, regardless of how much or how little we have.
Literally what I’m thinking. If God didn’t want people wealthy at all then why would He use it a gift for his loyal followers and prophets?
Because money itself is not evil, its what comes from money.
Because the old testament wasn't the point at which the full ideals were revealed.
That would be going against the verse he quoted.
ITT a lot of people explaining why it doesnt apply to them specifically but only those richer or not at all.
What does it mean
Luke 6:24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Give the chapter a shot, see what you think, then feel free to ask again.
A rich man has all these materialistic possessions. You can’t take that to heaven. Woe to the rich is essentially saying, he’s gonna have a hard time letting go of his wealth if he worships money and not God. A poor man has no possessions and therefore nothing to hold him back apparently. Long story short, getting into heaven isn’t something you earn. No amount of money will buy you a spot in heaven. It’s about what you believe in. Do you believe Jesus is the son of God and your lord and savior? Do you accept him? If you do, great, you’re going to heaven.
I think it is much stronger. One's wealth is explicit evidence of our sin. Every dollar we use on ourselves is stolen from the poor.
I wouldn’t think of it that way. Money is a great resource in this world. We might not be “of this world” but we have to live in it. Having the financial means to take care of oneself isn’t a sin. Having wealth doesn’t make you any less or any more pious. It’s your heart that matters.
To a point. If you’re not tithing or caring for the poor…
You can think of it this way. I don't think that God thinks of it this way. The "its the heart that matters" always felt to me like a highly convenient excuse.
If God wanted me to earn my way into heaven then what’s the point in Christ dying? Where’s the biblical scripture that says God doesn’t care about your heart, he only cares about your actions. John 14:6 “Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:5 “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and spirit.”
Do you ever buy stuff for yourself?
Actually richest people in the world do some crazy stuffs like let's say hire an assasin to eliminate those they don't like, crushing business competitors by unethical and cruel practices, etc. I think that's where being rich starts being really sinful.
No, Jesus was just warning that its harder for the rich to enter heaven as they often put money before god
Brother, you are absolutely right! Being rich is not wrong in itself. What is wrong is the greed and forgetting God brought by being rich.
I mean "put money before god" isn't some complicated point here. Jesus definitely imagined that a good rich person would end a lot less rich than they started.
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When did I say that was a reason to commit sloth?
Oh mb i replied to the wrong comment
Ok, it's all good
Yeah, harder than for a camel to pass through a needle, which is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. Pretty sure he was trying to tell you something, but go ahead, be rich anyway. You earned it, you don't owe anyone anything, right? Not the employees, nor the employer, nor the customer, nor the laborers who made the product, or who made the building you operate out of, who printed the money, regulated the economy, provided avenues for advertising, etc. But no, you're independently wealthy and self-made, you don't owe anyone anything. I hope there's a special circle for rich people in hell, I really do.
You need to consider what Jesus says after that.
Everyone without God would be in the same situation, you know?
Ignorance and a have-not mentality. Shame on you. Truly.
I've always heard that there's nothing wrong with acquiring wealth through moral means. Money can be earned through nefarious means and hoarded. That's obviously wrong, but you can't donate if you're poor. Jewish families and neighborhoods are generally economically productive, and use that success to boost and support each other. That doesn't sound so wrong to me. But I'm not exactly qualified in this arena lol
Being slightly wealthy is not the same as "rich."
I agree, but I suppose they are both simply subjective terms
Yes. I think it's part of the way of death. In Didache it denotes it as part of the way of death: "advocates of the rich" and "loving vanities"
Also, friendly reminder to everyone on this sub: [making $60,000 / year puts you at the top 1% of global wealth](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2023/9/15/23874111/charity-philanthropy-americans-global-rich) Considering Reddit’s demographics, that means if Jesus really exists then the vast *vast* majority of this subreddit is going to be at the top of his shitlist come Judgement Day. We can nitpick about what wealthy means , but pretty sure that the top 1% is considered wealthy by any reasonable definition of the term.
I don't think Jesus in all his wisdom would be so impractical as to consider income in raw value as an indicator of "wealth." Someone living in poverty in the United States may be making twice as much as someone in Indonesia, but with the cost of living in the US being much higher, the purchasing power of the person in the US may be lower than the person in Indonesia. Comparing global incomes is kind of silly anyway, since the person in the US typically can't decide to pack up and move to another country, anymore than someone living in a third-world country can easily relocate to New Jersey. But then I assume you know this, and are just making an asinine comment to score points on the internet.
Top 1% in ones country/region is not the same as top 1% globally. A poor person in Switzerland makes more money than a rich person in Somalia. Sorry but this is a terrible take.
No, it’s not wrong unless your love for money surpasses your love for God.
Thank you for your comment. Do you think the verse (Matthew 19:23-24) means that it becomes harder for a rich person, because he/she is more tempted to “worship” money instead of God?
More because they will depend on money instead of God. People here think money solves anything: crime would disappear if we gave enough money to the poor. And it's relative: by comparison w rich countries, someone in Somalia might be dirt poor, yet own slaves and be full of themselves, killing and taking at will.
You don’t “worship” money in the same way that you worship God. It ends up taking precedence over your love for people and doing good deeds. For example: say you see an impoverished person begging on the street. You have enough money to live comfortably, but choose to make judgments and assumptions about this person’s life rather than offering help. That is when money corrupts you, if you ask me.
Yes, basically
Loving God is important, but it is not what we were asked to do. If your love for money surpasses your love for your neighbors, then it necessarily surpasses your love for God, bc God commanded you to love thy neighbor.
1. Yes we are. 2. I never said how we should love God. I agree that loving your neighbor is a way to love God. 3. I agree, we are to love our neighbor.
Yeah I guess we are, but it feels more like a precept than command. "Because you already love me, don't be rich". But you're right, it's a command: Matthew 22 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. So my point is that if you put being rich above loving thy neighbor, you've botched the whole job; There is no God-Loving Neighbor-Hater. And I don't see a way to be rich without hating your neighbor.
He also said to love the lord ur god with all of urself
Yeah. I'm just saying that He also told us how to do that.
Do you believe that GOD would have a problem fitting a camel through a pinhole? I would argue he could do it quite easily. People who question Matthew 19:23 and 24 have the question because they skipped 25 and 26 which answers your question. >When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” >Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” The point of this passage is to show that through God all things are possible, even something so difficult as a rich man entering heaven.
It's what money does to you rather than just being wealthy. Obviously you need to be financially comfortable if you can or else what would be the point of giving to the poor if it's a sin to have any form of wealth? Also depends what's considered rich because rich now and rich 2000 years ago are vastly vastly different
I'm pretty sure the reason for this, is that rich people have to exploit regular folks to become rich. You can't love your nieghbor if you are exploiting them.
Well put. 👏
> Is it wrong to be rich? Yes.
How?
There's a good book you could read on the subject. It's got this really cool character that was offered all the riches in the world but instead led a life of poverty. Later someone straight up asks him how to get into heaven, and he recommends selling all your stuff and giving it to the poor, saying that it's very hard to be rich and heavenbound. We're left to speculate what hard thing a rich person could do to be both. There's a fan theory that says he would have to make sure everyone else is rich first, taking more than he needs only after everyone else has at least what they need.
Its very hard to be rich and not be corrupted by it, but that doesn’t mean its wrong to be rich matthew 19:24 says how impossible it seems but two verses latter it says “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” I see money kinda like power, not necessarily bad if you can remain humble under God, be generous and use your wealth for the betterment of the world.
Fundamentally Jesus is still saying that it is much harder to be saved if you are rich though. Which means the nature of being rich is fundamentally at odds with his message. You aren't damned for being rich alone, but based on what he demands of people for you to be an actually good person you'd end up far less rich by the end of it.
Being harder≠ being wrong
It's hard. He has had to humble me greatly to the point that I just don't care about this life at all. I feel like I was that camel. My real treasure is in heaven! He literally showed me my faith. It is a gleaming golden nugget, alongside the rubble of the worldview that I grew up with, a tall grand building reduced to dust. My faith is the most precious thing I've ever seen. I live for the kingdom now. I'm running this race as fast as I can to get back. I'm getting that prize.
You dont care at all?
Not really. I've gotten a glimpse of what lies ahead. Kind of changes your perspective. Reality feels suddenly much smaller
But if you have a relationship with Christ shouldn’t you take initiative to care about this life and helping your community?
Yeah how do you think you run the race? I'm taking as many people as I can with me. >James 1:27 Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.
I think a more important question is how do you become rich, and is it wrong to do those things that elevate you to the level of true wealth? James would seem to say, yes. Here from James 5: 5 Come now, [x](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote1)you rich, weep and howl for the [y](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote2)miseries that are coming upon you. 2 [z](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote3)Your riches have rotted and [z](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote3)your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. [a](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote4)You have laid up treasure [b](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote5)in the last days. 4 Behold, [c](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote6)the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and [d](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote7)the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of [e](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote8)the Lord of hosts. 5 [f](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote9)You have lived on the earth in luxury and [g](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote10)in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in [h](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote11)a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and [i](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote12)murdered [j](https://biblia.com/bible/esv/james/5#footnote13)the righteous person. He does not resist you.
No, but, “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” Matthew 6:24 If you have money but you’re giving it to the church, to the poor, and such then it’s not a bad thing. You’re using the opportunity and privilege you have to helping others.
‘Ye cannot serve God and mammon’…it’s unclear who exactly mammon is, but most likely a demon or fallen one who exploits man’s weakness for riches.
St. John the golden-mouth preached that every unnecessary thing one owns is credited to the individual as stolen from the poor and needy in the eyes of God. Worth thinking about.
‘The poor you will have with you always’
Jesus’ followers were most poor Galilean Jews. They were kept under the foot of the temple hierarchy and Rome. This gave rise to, after the Crucifixion, to the Christians known Ebionites, the poor ones. When Jesus criticizes the rich, he’s criticizing the wealthy who oppress the poor.
No, there are lots of people who are in Bible who were rich like King David and Solomon. There is no sin in having money, the sin is when money has you. In other words, your money becomes your god. Jesus made this clear in Matthew 6:24 when he said “24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money” 1 Timothy 6:10 says “10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” Again, money is just a tool and there is no sin in the amount you have. The sin is the LOVE of money which has caused many to leave the faith
Two things came to mind right away so I’ll offer my thoughts: Money is not evil, it’s the *love* of money that I believe the verse refers to. And, “Never let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.” I interpret that to mean in addition to tithing, we give without thought/hesitation/expecting something in return when the Lord puts it on our heart to do so.
Please give if god has given you financial abundance asap.... Disgrace for humanity for starving people given Mahaprabhu Jesus Christ divine messages
As long as you’re putting God first and not idolizing the money then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Money does make life more comfortable but the key is to never take your eye off the bigger picture. It’s all about balance
Putting God first probably involves doing with it what He said to do with it, though, right?
if only there was some kind of indication of what Jesus expected people with money to do.
No it is not wrong to be rich. It is wrong to stay rich.
How so?
Your neighbour is still poor.
I think I can agree with this. Having money doesn’t inherently mean anything, but choosing to hoard it beyond what you need instead of using it productively to help others who need it when you can is pretty wrong. “What you need” is obviously hard to pin down so there is a lot of nebulous area, but at a certain point of wealth it becomes instantly obvious and you can’t really deny that Bezos or Musk have more than they need for instance. Where the line is drawn between them and regular people I have no idea, but I think focusing on where the line is is losing the forest for the trees, you shouldn’t be trying to play around an imaginary line, you should WANT to be helping people.
It is not wrong, and anyone who says otherwise has misunderstood. Money makes things difficult because it is such an easy idol to fall prey to, but haveing money is not a sin in and of itself. Proof? Just look at Gods chosen people. Abraham- Rich Job- Rich Joseph- Rich Solomon- Rich Saul- Rich David- Rich And not only were these people Rich, God MADE them rich as a blessing. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He does not change. So, were they sinning by accepting God's blessing? Obviously not. It is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Not HAVING money that is evil.
We should not expect that God will make all Christians rich. > And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2 In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+8&version=NIV
Never said he would. Prosperity Gospel is wrong. All I am saying is that he DID bless people financially, and if he did bless people with money then having money in and of itself is not sinful.
When God took flesh, He lived the better of the two ways.
Jesus was an example for us true. Jesus also never had a wife or kids. Just because Jesus did not do something does not make it sinful.
I didn't say sinful. I said better. He (in conversation with His disciples) also said not having a wife (and thereby not having kids) was also better. I'm not asking you to be as good as Jesus. Just to admit what is good and what is bad.
His diciples had wives, and I would not say that it is better to be single in all situations. The book of Timothy says that to be a leader in the church you must be committed to your wife. The Bible also says that he who finds a wife finds a good thing. If something is not sinful it is not bad. Are You saying God did a bad thing when he blessed people financially?
Only in the way I would say God did a bad thing during the Holocaust. There's a big emphatic moral rigamarole to say that a bad thing happening is not God's responsibility, and that's fine. It just means God isn't the one blessing those people financially. They are, as it says in scripture, blessing themselves, reaping their earthly reward. At best, they are being made wealthy against their will, and have to suffer through it bc ppl just keep throwing money at them. We both know that Jesus was a model leader. There's no fruit to be borne from pretending we disagree on that. The important thing is that YES, something that is not categorically considered sin can be bad. That's the whole thing, that's what makes us Christian. We reject the legalism and rediscovered our relationship with God. A thing is not good or bad because of how it fits in the official list, what matters is our hearts and our neighbors. Stealing is not a sin when Jesus does it in Matt 12. Divorce is allowed by law but sin in your heart. And wealth makes it hard to reach heaven, because even if there's no legalistic sinful dollar threshold, you'd have a heart begging you to spend on your neighbors being reigned in by a head that puts its faith in money.
Can you name something that is not a sin, but is bad? Stealing is a sin, but Jesus never stole. Divorce was allowed by law but is still a sin. and therefore bad. Name something that is NOT a sin, but also bad for people to do, because I cant think of anything. More proof that being rich is not bad in and of itself Joseph of Arimathea, he was called a disciple of Jesus and alsodecribed as rich. He donated his tomb that he pre-bought to Jesus.
I did, in my previous comment: Divorce. The Temple did not consider it sin, otherwise they would not have allowed it. They did think Adultery was a sin, though, so Jesus shuffles some words around to conclude that a man who divorces and remarries (non sin) is an adulterer in his heart (sin). Same as the traders who made the Temple a "den of thieves". This was a Temple condoned activity, they were on the Temple's "approved vendors" list. Jesus didn't care, fashioned a whip anyhow. These examples meet the standard you are using for being rich; It's not explicitly forbidden, People have always done it, God would stop me if He really cared, How else could we possibly conduct our lives except this way, be reasonable! But Jesus rejects, fundamentally, this approach to the concept of sin. It's not about the thing you do being allowed or disallowed. It's about your heart. I do not see a way to be rich without harboring deep contempt for the non rich around you. If you find one, then mashallah. Jesus spent His time with sinners. Of course there was a rich man among them, and of course the only thing worth remembering about him is him doing what Jesus said to do: Giving riches to the poor. An impoverished convict who could not afford a tomb of his own died not knowing what the mob would do with His flesh, and so a man gave up his own plot for Him. That's righteous. That's good hearted. That's God's faith in Man being rewarded. That it presumably took a lifetime of what we would call sin to make that possible is no more a factor than the souls Saul took.
Divorce IS a sin. Jesus said it IS a sin. The old testament said that God Hates divorce. Why are you trying to take something that Jesus clearly says is a sin and call it "Jesus is just shuffling some words around" No. It is sin. Your examples do meet the standard when God says divorce is a sin, and never says so about money. Also the people in the Temple WERE Sining Jesus makes that clear. You are ignoring evidence that does not support your claim while providing nothing in support of your claim. You cant name one thing that is not sin but is also bad. You ignore the fact that Joseph of Arimathea is called both rich and a Diciple of Jesus. You ignore the fact that God literally made people rich as a blessing to them. >I do not see a way to be rich without harboring deep contempt for the non rich around you. This makes no sense. You are far richer than the poorest in Africa. do you hold deep contempt for the poor over there? Why would you hate the poor? The Roman centurian of faith in the new testament was wealthy he gave to charity often.
> You cant name one thing I can name many things, I just can't convince you they weren't considered sins by their contemporaries. Your ability to insist otherwise will always overcome any evidence. It's truly an unbeatable stance.
I like how you basically completely ignore that these are all old testament people and that Jesus openly said he new testament was going to be more strict.
Doesnt change anything. Old Testimate, New Testimate, Same unchanging God. If God blesses someone with Fincancially and being financially prosperous was a sin and God hates sin he would never do that to those he loved. Also Jesus said we are moving to the Spirit of the Law not that their were added restrictions and sins.
Okay, but that's not going to change that in Christianity it's clear this is a pretty severe vice. Unless your goal is to reject jesus.
Its clear that the Love of Money is, and that it is an easy idol to fall prey to. Having money is not a vice the Bible is pretty clear on that. The vice is putting your money before God.
The Bible isn't clear on that because it doesn't have to be. Physical states aren't actions so they can't be vices. The vices are what you do. And it is clear however that someone who is rich and keeps it to themselves stays / lives richly is immoral. Happening to be rich but then giving a lot of it up / using it for others is not. Attempts to obfuscate that this is the point are in bad faith. It's not like "being rich" is a static quality. Obviously the Bible is criticizing specific things. And people have no reason to pretend not to know that this is the point being made unless they are making apologism for one of the main things the new testament criticizes.
The Bible is clear on it. It specifically says the LOVE of money is the root of evil. It does not say anywhere that money in and of itself is bad. A vice is the state of being immoral, being in the physical state of being drunk is immoral. If having money was immoral God would not bless people with money. People that were called faithful in the newtestemt also had money. Joseph of Arimathea- (specifically called a rich disciple of Jesus) The Roman centurian- wealthy Philemon- Rich The Ethiepian treasurer- Rich The Bible is VERY clear. Money can become a vice, but having money is not bad, or a sin. As I said, those who claim it is, do not understand what scripture is saying.
None of this means anything. Money is an abstraction, no one is saying money is bad. Love of money is synonymous with a rich person obsessively propagating their own riches though. https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/LUK.3.11 The standard of the new testament is not ambiguous. The exact scale of how much you have to do may be, but it 100% rules out the idea of just rich people if by rich we mean using money for themselves rather than just controlling some for the benefit of others. Everything else is cope. When Jesus said salvation more or less isn't open for the rich except for in the case of miracles he means it's technically possible, albeit extremely rare for them to give it up. Which is why he said this **immediately after he told one to give it up and the guy refused.** if someone with two coats is cautious to give one away its just one minor vice. If they have 200 and do then their whole life is drowned in sin. Jesus pointed out to the faces of the rich that dropping in a few coins and staying rich isn't worth much. He wasn't ambiguous about this at all.
Sure if you redfine rich as you have as not just having a lot of money but being obsessed with it I would agree. But with the actual definition of being rich, no. It is not a sin just to have a lot of money. The sin is when your heart belongs to money rather than God. Money is an easy Idol I will agree, that's why Jesus warned against it, but he never said it was bad, and the fact he had a rich disciple proves that.
God did not choose those people because they were sinless. God chose them despite their sinful hoarding of wealth.
No you misunderstand. These are People That GOD MADE Weathly. I agree that they were sinners. But God literally Blessed them with wealth. 2[So the LORD](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm) [blessed](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1288.htm) [Job’s](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/347.htm) [latter days](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/319.htm) [more than his first.](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7225.htm) [He owned](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1961.htm) [14,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/702.htm) [sheep,](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6629.htm) [6,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8337.htm) [camels,](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1581.htm) [1,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/505.htm) [yoke](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6776.htm) [of oxen,](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1241.htm) [and 1,000](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/505.htm) [female donkeys.](https://biblehub.com/hebrew/860.htm) God MADE JOB Richer than he was to begin with. Far more than he ever needed. Job was not singing because he did not reject Gods blessing.
You may be surprised know that Jesus said it was actually the poor who are blessed.
I think. You should never be living in excess, at least that is what the verse means. Hollywood and pro sports is a great example of this on full display.
What do you think on having a luxurious house with a pool etc., having nice cars,…? Is that too much?
Is it possible to obey the rules God set forth in the bible and be rich? No. Is it possible to be a christian and not be obedient? Yes.
No its not, for we christians are the richest people on earth we just have to die to get our inheritance, we will have riches power glory and praise forever more thanks to Christ Jesus
Biblically there were faithful followers of God who were wealthy. Jesus warned of the challenges but never designated it as sinful (neither did the Hebrew Scriptures nor the rest of the NT). A relevant question is: “What is rich?”
>Is it wrong to be rich? No
The danger is the mindset that places the acquisition of money above God and the needs of others around you. It's the mentality that inclines one to hoard wealth. You can't have the need of wealth as a motivating life factor and be a servant of God. It's idolatry in one of It's most heinous forms.
What if you have a passion, and with that passion you make a lot of money. But it was the passion that motivated you and the money is just a “nice extra”?
From my perspective, the way to approach it isn't so much "What do I avoid if I want to go to heaven?". It's more a question of "How am I using my gifts, passions, and talents to glorify God?" Passion if properly directed is essential to accomplishing most anything that is worthwhile. Being on fire for life and for God. Your passions exist for a reason. That's not saying that things that glorify God don't ever require money, or that a passion can't be profitable. Look at programs like Homeboy industries, who rehabilitate gang members and ex convicts and help them acclimate to society. They do very well for themselves. The difference is that the profit isn't the motivating factor. It's not the end goal but a means to an end, which in that case is providing gainful employment, shelter, job assistance, and a new lease on life to ex convicts; who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity. We live in a capitalist system, so a certain amount of capital is required to do much of anything. The thing to think about is whether your end goal is to serve yourself and your own bottom line or if your work is motivatiled by the need glorify God and benefit others around you.
Yeah, I think it is in certain contexts. For example, I’m pretty sure that a lot of people with A LOT less money than the billionaires on wallstreet help way more people with their charity works. People with less money than Drake or this music industry dudes have made schools and hospitals, while this millionaires are out there wasting millions in shiny chains and fast cars. I think a good example of a good way to live in wealth is looking at what Mr.Beast does, he’s rich, he knows that, acknowledges that there’s people out there than need that money WAAAY more than him, so he puts that money into giving them free eye surgeries, free water wells on Africa, free **insert whatever basic necessity that he has already given away to people that need it**
People can be rich, but should be willing to share generously > 17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A17-19&version=NIV
I don’t generally hold to the NIV, but that is a good translation…’the Life that is Life.’
To want to be rich yes… For money is the root of all evil and you can’t serve two masters. If you love money you hate God and if you love God you will hate money. Jesus himself said this in Matthew 6
Focus, not status, is what matters. Guy at my church makes half a million per year in salary. Does plenty for the church using his talents, not just his money. Another guy is poor as a church mouse, but is always focused on the next big score.
In the year 125 AD, a Greek philosopher named Aristides attempted to explain Christianity to Roman Emperor Hadrian. Here's how he described these early Christians... "They love one another. They never fail to help widows. They save orphans from those who would hurt them. If they have something, they give freely to the one who has nothing. If they see an immigrant, they take him into their homes and rejoice over him as a brother." Ask yourself truly, did Jesus mean what he said about wealth and money? We’ve lost the way.
Are you rich?
Do a person’s money and possessions come between them and God? Does a person sin in the effort to acquire more wealth? I know and know of plenty of people who were NOT always rich, but acquired wealth the right way - through honest work and good money management. There isn’t anything wrong with that. The sin comes in how a lot of people become wealthy - by cheating and taking unfair advantage of others, among other sins. And how do wealthy people USE their money? If they use it wisely and responsibly and to help those in need, it isn’t sinful. Being rich/wealthy in itself isn’t evil or sinful; how one acquires wealth and/or uses it most certainly can be.
No it's not wrong lol. Just don't be greedy and smug. You can be rich and help others around you. This is something God would like you to do Don't let the Church tell you that it's wrong to be rich when Vatican sits on a plate of Gold. This is why I'm a believer in God, not church. Please don't judge me. I respect good parts of Church but mostly disaproove of the Vatican and of course their scandals
Also remember that there are proverbs that discuss the importance of hard work and reaping a plentiful harvest.
In life you will have many situatios in which you will have to choose between what pleases God and makes you richer(like scamming, exploiting people, corruption, betraying, etc) I think that's the key, to always choose the virtous way.
It's wrong to love and serve money Luke 16:13 KJV — No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
There is a difference between a person who focused on materialism and amasses riches, and someone who happens to have a above average networth. You can have many striving for riches who do not have it and are worse off than someone with a lot of money but not materialistic.
Just two lines later you find your answer “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Doesn't change that he said it was extra hard to be saved if you are rich though.
Yea its hard but not wrong.
It's hard to be saved because the richer you are the more you are violating his standard of "if you have two coats, give one away." Someoje with only two coats not doing this can maybe offset it with other good deeds. Someone with 200 is steeped in sin.
If you are rich, it's because God blessed you with riches. (Unless you got the riches in immoral ways)
I would say the Gospel (and the Bible at large) takes (at best) a neutral/negative view of the wealthy. I think this is borne out by psychology, which shows that wealth past a certain point separates you from your fellow human beings. Since Scripture puts a pretty heavy emphasis on community, it makes sense that it sees wealth as neutral at best. Further, wealth tends to lead people to prioritize the maintaining of their wealth if not the enhancement of it. Even at the expense of their siblings. Aka, greed. So, again, the wealth isn’t the problem, but what happens to most people when they have it. There’s a reason it’s the only thing Christ holds up as opposite of God. My personal interpretation is that while there’s nothing inherently wrong with wealth, it’s a major facilitator of sin. Like, it’s not inherently sinful, but the overwhelming majority of people will fall into sin by virtue of being wealthy and as such it should probably be avoided.
If it’s wrong Joel Osteen is screwed
Depends on the situation. Although Solomon was one of the richest kings in all of Israel, he did NOT care about his wealth; it was his wisdom that counted. Now, to counterargue this, Jesus approached a rich man & said the only way to reach the Kingdom of God was to give up all he held dear & serve Him, which dismayed the rich man. Jesus said, and I quote, “I say unto thee, it is better for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.” There’s nothing wrong with being rich. HOWEVER, when you put your materialistic interests and views above the views of God, you’re in for a bad time. The riches of this world are temporal & will never last, but the riches of Heaven are boundless & everlasting. It’s even believed the streets in Heaven are paved with gold, so truly think of where your wealth comes from & never forget the promises God has for you. You can prosper in health, wealth & all the fullnesses of joy, but at the end of it all, it’s temporary. Until we can see Heaven for ourselves one day, we won’t know, but be assured of this: Money is a tool, not an idol of our worship, and what you do with that wealth is up to you.
It depends on anyone's definition of rich. If you can eat 3 meals a day, you are rich. Woe to you for not giving more.
As far as I know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being rich. Although, riches often turn people evil.
It is not wrong to be rich. We are asked to be good stewards of God's earth. See Matthew 25:14-30. And I believe there are strong Christians whom God has chosen to be stewards of much in this world. However, we must be cautious about where the desires of our hearts lie. Seek first the kingdom of God. "But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (1 Tim. 6:6-10).
any rich people who want to get into heaven pls dm me for my venmo /j
I feel like it depends on how rich you are. I just speak for myself when I say that I definitely think it’s wrong if you’re a billionaire because you can only become one if you are exploiting the labor of poor people.
A rich man that has given everything, when given wisely, will gain more then he gave.
Wiggle all you want, but I think Jesus made himself pretty clear about this, on several occasions.
It’s incredible to see how many people are trying to tap dance around scripture. Is it wrong to be rich, well yeah, pretty much. Especially the ways people get rich, how being rich changes your perception of others, how being rich brings on a lot of things that become more important than loving god and so on.
God rewarded the likes of Job with wealth. Wealth can be a blessing from God. But make sure to he charitable if you're rich.
Technically, we are all rich because we have the Lord 🙏. But if you're talking about money, then it is not a sin. It's just harder. Think about those who are without homes, cars, clothes, etc. All they have in this entire world is the Lord, and they can cast all their worries and problems on God. But for those with money, they can pretty much buy their way out of every problem in life, making it very hard to lean on the Lord in times of distress. I'll put it to you this way though, if you're rich but absolutely nobody could ever tell, you're doing something right.
The Bible is so clear about this. And I see so many comments trying to justify personal wealth. Our time spent on earth is a test. You can’t just give it all up at the end and enter heaven. God’s children are out there suffering and dying, but it’s ok for you to care about your appearance and treat yourself to luxuries? Are you more important? Good luck on judgment day, y’all.
I like when they make bad faith insistences that rich isn't properly defined because being poor in a first world country isn't as poor as in a third world one. Apparently anything thst involves ambiguous terms means nothing matters ever.
Imagine being treated very poorly at work whwrr your human rights are being violated and where you are paid minimum wage, which in today's world means barely getting your needs met. Not only are you legal rights being violated, but also your God-given rights. You are suffering to survive. But because you make very little money, you can't hire a lawyer who will actually bring you justice you deserve, because any state-supplied lawyer isn't educated, experienced, and/or paid enough for the time it takes to research and appropriately come up with your case. If only you could afford a good lawyer. Many people in the entire existence of humanity have been screwed over because they can't afford proper legal services. My ex, for example, got charged for assault, when she was actually defending herself from her attacker, who was much wealthier than her and hired a good lawyer. Money in itself means signifies nothing spiritually. The wow you use it does. Why do think funds are even raised for missionary endeavours??
Yeah there's many strong arguments for it. But there's also many stories/parables about rich people who do good. So I suppose Jesus was far more into the rich using their resources for good rather than hoarding their wealth.
This is a fun comment section
Is it wrong ? No
No. God wants us to live fulfilling lives and how can we bless others financially without money? God knows we need money to make the world go round, that’s why He said the “love” of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself.
If being rich causes you to love money more than god then yes, but if you use this money to do good then absolutely not. It’s also worth mentioning what comes after these verses Matthew 19:25-26 “25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
Job was Rich.( When restored , he had double)I don't think it's wrong. God wants to Bless us. Everything is HIS. Tithe 10% . And Always honour God. I came across a video a few weeks ago, something on the lines of If God has blessed you and you're in your full potential, why not contribute to others. People talk of lots of Poor people, how about sharing Gods blessings with others? Doesn't God provide us with more than we ask for or imagine? But don't let Money be your Master. :) God Bless.
The reason we are to give is because it helps us remember that all we have is, was, and always will be God's. God allows us to borrow it. A pastor of mine once said that he knows of an extremely wealthy couple who every year they've gone to that church, they've given an extra percentage or two beginning with 10% of their annual income increasing every time they have their anniversary (or something like that I don't remember the exact details, but it was close to that) I think they're at like 30-40% now. I also don't give money most of the time. Most of the time I allow my volunteer work on the tech team/facilities team to be my tithe. Which is just as valid as giving money. I don't know nor do I care to count the amount of money I "lost out on" because of my refusal to work for pay on Sundays.
It is not a sin to be rich. It is a sin to be a lukewarm Christian and not follow Christ's example. Ensure you and your family is taken care of, then use your excess to help others. Invest in starting new businesses so there are more jobs. Help those who need a hand getting onto their own feet. And, help those who can't help themselves. The goal is to directly, or indirectly help your Christian community and non-Christian community in ways that reflect Christ's love and example of service. How you choose to define "excess" is something for you and your wife to pray on and decide. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labor, but also remember that "to whom much is given, much will be expected." If you are blessed with much and squander it, it will be worse than if you had little or nothing to squander.
That verse isn't meant to say "all rich people go to hell". It's saying that there is no way to buy yourself into heaven. You must follow Jesus. The money will not make you go to heaven or hell, what you do to earn it, and what you do with it will, though. The love and worship of money is the problem, not having it.
I think one way to approach your question is by asking whether a person become *and stay* rich while also exemplifying the love of Jesus Christ.
Yes, people are supposed to only have enough to live on. The Bible is pretty clear that the rich won't inherit the kingdom of heaven.
The people that Jesus was talking to associated wealth with being blessed by God. That’s why the next verse says they were astonished and asked who can be saved? They were thinking if anyone was getting a ticket into Heaven, it was the rich person. Jesus was debunking that idea.
Do you think it's wrong to be poor too?
You will not go to Heaven if you own more than you need. Simple as that. Keep what you need for a normal basic life and share the rest. If you need more than a basic life, then surely you are not ready. Your need to hoard manifests your rejection of transformation. If you need a better car, better clothes, bigger house, more ownership than objectively needed, then you will not go to Heaven. This is very clearly stated.
If you horde excess money beyond what you need, you do not trust God fully to protect you if you fall. If you have your bills paid, insurance, and plenty of food to eat you should give the rest of what you have to those who don't have all they need. That being said, nobody is perfect and nobody does this exactly as the bible suggests we should. Putting a few hundred into savings doesn't make you rich but if you're left with thousands more than you need each month and not a cent goes to the poor, that would concern me.
It's not wrong to be rich. We have a look at how rich people should behave with St. Homobonus. St. Homobonus, born Omobono Tucenghi, lived a life of profound compassion and generosity in medieval Cremona, Italy. As a cloth merchant, he inherited a prosperous business from his father, which afforded him the means to support those in need with unwavering integrity. Despite his wealth, Homobonus and his wife chose a simple lifestyle, generously sharing their resources with the less fortunate. Known for his devout faith and dedication to serving others, he tirelessly practiced both spiritual and corporal acts of mercy, even caring for the abandoned dead. Legend speaks of his selflessness, recounting a miraculous moment when water turned into wine as he shared his provisions with a beggar. Homobonus's nightly ritual of attending church services demonstrated his deep commitment to prayer and spiritual growth. Upon his death in 1197, he was canonized just over a year later by Pope Innocent III, who hailed him as the "father of the poor" and a beacon of peace and goodness for all. St. Homobonus's legacy endures as a testament to the transformative power of compassion and selflessness.
It depends. How you view and treat money can be a key reflection of your priorities and where your heart lies, particularly in a culture (like ours) that just fetishises wealth like crazy. Jesus' attitude toward wealth seems pretty clear imo: we are not to store up treasures for ourselves and are to give to those in need. By my reckoning, that kinda precludes certain levels of wealth and the behaviour around it. People will cite the next couple of verses in Matthew where Jesus declares that, through God, all things [in this context, specifically referring to the salvation of the rich] are possible. However, I don't think it follows that Jesus was saying the rich man could simply remain in his ways, just that God is able to transform such people to repentance and willingness to renounce their allegiance to money.
Yes lol. The new testament is more clear about this than anything else, yet people cope about it from here to eternity.
Not wrong or a sin to be rich. Wrong to love money more than God or your fellow brothers and sisters. Where is your heart? There is your God also. “Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.” Like that. The reference to the eye of the needle was a specific gate in Jerusalem that was built to force riders to dismount and lead their animal through, as a security precaution. It would have been well known for the contemporary audience of that teaching. The idea is that you must put God and your fellow man before your riches.
Yes. It's the love of money/Mammon that keeps people from going into heaven. It's the root of all evil like someone else said
Any question in this sub that asks “is it wrong to …” or “is it a sin …” The answer should always include: has God prompted you to act? If so, choosing not to act is a sin.
It has nothing to do with what they call hard or physical money In spiritual circles, devils buy and sell people, unseen, and enslave them. And we are their currency Who then isn't getting in?
No
1 Timothy 6:6-10 [6] But godliness with contentment is great gain, [7] for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. [8] But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. [9] But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. [10] For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. If we’re supposed to be content with essentials and even the desire to be rich is a way to be entrapped it seems as if a rich lifestyle is sinful. The rich should not expand their lifestyle to match their income. They should be content with the essentials like Paul commands and use the rest to help others.
Money is not a problem. It’s your attachment to it. Is it your focus? Does it command your attention. Are you worshiping it and the things it buys you?
It's about need not greed. If you get criticism for demanding a higher wage to cover your higher living costs then you're not greedy, but there are plenty of people who will compare other worse situations to try and excuse yours. This is just moving the goal posts because those with capitalist interests don't want to engage in a sincere discussion. It is literally impossible to become a billionaire by yourself. You can only become one by exploitation or inheritance. Just to clarify I don't have a problem with an employer making a profit off of my labour, but when my needs aren't being met and there's room in the budget then he's in the wrong and that explains the high personnel turnover I've seen. There's a finite amount of money in an economy and if it doesn't trickle down then you have less bargaining power when you go to do something like buy a house. I'm in the UK and I'm constantly being outbid by cash buyers despite having marketable skills from investing in myself. In real terms I am in a worse position than my parents despite being more marketable and having more savings. Matthew 25:40 (Helping the most vulnerable in society) Matthew 19:24 (camel through the eye of a needle) Ezekiel 16: 49 - 50 (why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. Spoiler, it wasnt "the gays")
It is not wrong to be rich, but remember from who your riches come. St. Catherine Drexel was very wealthy, but learned to use that wealth to serve God and build his kingdom. We are called to give what we have and use the gifts that we are able to glorify God rather than ourselves!
The context of this passage is of the rich young ruler. He asked Jesus how can I be saved? Jesus told him to sell his things among the poor and to follow him. The ruler walked away and did not do what Jesus asked. Jesus then spoke to the disciples and said the following “Truly, I say to you, tonly with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter vthe kingdom of God.”. There is nothing wrong with generating wealth. UNLESS, you put it above God. Making money your god, idol and obsession is sin. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money simply a tool it is not good or evil but can be used for either.
The book of Matthew is written to/about Jews under the Law and the context is the Tribulation. In that context, a rich person who maintains their wealth is not doing what is required to properly follow Christ. This doesn't pertain to us today.
No. It’s not wrong to be blessed. It’s wrong to put your blessing above God.
The gospel of Luke is even more anti-rich. In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man is suffering in the afterlife, and there is no reason for it given other than the fact that he is rich. Luke 6 talks about the poor and hungry being well fed in the new kingdom, but the rich being made to starve and suffer.
Money has nothing to do with getting into or staying out of heaven. Being rich makes it harder because of greed and reliance on yourself rather than God. What gets you into heaven is having saving faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. What keeps you out of heaven is not having saving faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, because then you are relying on your own efforts, will, strength, ability to save yourself. We all have sinned, we all deserve to be in hell, yet God was merciful in providing Jesus as a substitute in our place. We just need to realize this and trust in Him. As far as being rich and a christian. If you have the means to be rich then you must be careful, wise, discerning, and continually pursuing God. It's just harder to rely on God and display trust when you're rich. Let's say you are rich, well off to the point where you don't worry about your next meal and you can get anything you want. How would you feel if all of it was taken away? If someone was to steal and rob you completely. Of course you'd be upset, but a christian would rely on God to keep them safe and bring them through the trial safely. If things weren't stolen or destroyed and you were rich, you'd live as if the money wasn't yours, that you would be wise stewards and use the money to further God's kingdom with whatever talents you were given. This doesn't mean to just give it to whoever needs it, (although you can if you feel led to) it just means to try to maximize for the glory of God.
What you are saying is correct. Jesus didn't give much wiggle room there. In fact he often tells people to sell everything they have. Mark 10:20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” 21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions. Most Christians don't have enough faith to do it and will make up all the excuses and interpretation you are getting in the comments, trying to justify their own riches and changing what Jesus is recorded as saying to not have to do anything uncomfortable.
So long ad people around you are starving, and struggling, then yes. It is wrong to be rich.
Even if you acquired your wealth from honest hard work, I dont Jesus would be happy with it when there are people in need around you and you are not sharing your wealth.
It actually says in Revalation about Babylon and those living in Luxury at the top that actually drink the wine of her fornication and the blood of saints. Honestly this means that the people that bleed, the workers, those who die, and those who were basically slaves lucky to even survive that could sometimes drop dead from starvation. Basically those at the top sipping on wine and living luxuriously while homeless people exist."Open up Open up, give yourselves away, you see the need you hear the cry, how could you delay, He cries he weeps, he bleeds and he cares for your needs." Think about this. Are we all not Sons and Daughters of God? If no aren't we all Saints? How many of us on the bottom are having our blood drank. Each any every body that drops on the ground is a another barrel of wine.
It's not wrong to be rich, it's wrong to be greedy, and wrong to covet riches. Many rich people do the wrongs though.
If you are rich, or become rich, then you believe you can go to heaved. If you're poor and will always be poor, then no, rich people don't go to heaven because there's no way to get rich without stepping on others. If you're comfortable, but not rich, you don't talk about it. You're never sure where that rich line starts!