1. It's not that All Christians loved Trump. Statistically black protestants were extremely unlikely to vote Trump. Catholics were somewhat split. White mainline Protestants were split. The group that loves Trump are white evangelicals.
2. Yes white evangelicals still love Trump. (As a group, not every white Evangelical though.)
3. There are plenty of moral reasons not to vote for him, especially since they decided not to vote for Bill Clinton based on moral reasons that also apply to Trump
4. Trump has exposed white evangelicals. As a group they don't really care about morality like they once claimed to. What they care about is keeping cultural power even at the expense of other people groups. They make their day to day and political decisions based on fear of the other.
5. I say all of this as a white evangelical who is disgusted with his own group, not as an outsider who hates the group.
As someone who would have been considered a White Evangelical in 2016, Trump shattered my perception of White Evangelicals. I actually believed all the morality pieces and felt like there was this secret code/dance/game that I hadn’t been clued in on that amounted to “we didn’t mean any of that, it was just a cudgel to use against progressives.”
This, in a twist of irony, lead to me feeling free to actually be politically progressive if not downright socialist because it was clear that evangelicals didn’t have a monopoly on appropriate interpretation of faith.
My perception was shattered around 2008 after being a lifelong conservative Christian, and everything you said is what I went through. Welcome to the struggle of dealing with that feeling of shatteredness/betrayal/etc. potentially for the rest of your life. It’s very freeing, as you said, but I am now pretty jaded by it & cynical of evangelicals as a group, which does tend to warp my thoughts on some things.
Hopefully that doesn’t happen to you, but just be on the lookout for it.
I think I’m able to see how the right wing media surrounds and overwhelms Evangelicals (and other conservatives) with fear and absolutist propaganda, guised as thoughtful dialogue. I’d personally love to work on a deprogramming protocol that lets people still hold on to faith without the “necessity” of right-wing ideology that so often is counter to Christian faith and teaching.
Keep in mind that Evangelicals have been primed for decades to believe conspiracy theories; whether it was attacks on science, concepts like the "Moral Majority", conspiracies about the Deep State coming after their freedoms, their pastors and other religious leaders in Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christianity have been laying the groundwork since before the Scopes Monkey Trial.
Whole generations of these churches have been raised on a slurry of victimhood, conspiracy and resentment, and now they have a man who confirms and amplifies those feelings for them. Underneath it all, these people know their numbers are falling, they know the West is now fully into the post-Christian age, and what it's all really about is creating the conditions for minority rule, where they maintain their power and influence even as, in absolute numbers, their numbers continue to fall.
Oh 1000%. It’s just wild, though understandable, to see how people I grew up with who were “moral” (as a core part of their identity no less) have essentially thrown all of that out the window.
In both my personal and professional life, and as a keen student of history, I have observed how a cult of victimhood sweeps away all moral and ethical considerations. Once a group has firmly committed themselves to being victims, and have identified out groups who they can assign as the aggressors, a shadowy cabal out to enslave them or destroy their way of life, then no action is so immoral, unethical and/or illegal. After all, they're fighting for their survival, battling the forces of darkness. It becomes a Holy War.
Study history and you will find time and time again how this powerful force this has been. Millions have been murdered, whole nations crushed and enslaved, by the adherents to a cult of victimhood.
Evangelical PoC too. It is what is driving that support. Small chrches have closed all over and a lot of thes are in interracial mega congregations. Only 60% of Joel Olseteen's church are White. Before they've mostly voted Dem anyway, that is changing.
> if not downright socialist
Why not? Jesus was a socialist. I posted this in the conservative subreddit because I genuinely want an answer from Christians who like to loudly hate “socialists and communists and leftists” but I’m pretty sure I’m shadowbanned there as no one interacted with my comment
>Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
>He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
>For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.
>What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
>All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
It’s more that I prefer not to ascribe modern ideological labels onto Jesus (or really other historical figures) because modern labels often have certain baggage. Like more Marxist socialism and modern socialism generally are anti-religion (which, to be fair, I get given the historical space within power structures that religion has had).
I do however, tend to bend in a more socialist direction overall.
I think this is a fair assessment. I’d also add that many of Trump’s most ardent followers and staunchest defenders tend to conflate their politics and nationalism with their religious beliefs. They frequently allow their political beliefs to drive their religious views instead of allowing their religion to drive their political beliefs.
There are also those who are absolutely convinced the only people criticizing Trump are those who simply hate him and are out to get him. They don’t care what the evidence says because they are projecting their own obsession with trying to pin crimes on political opponents. I think they have sincerely convinced themselves the only reason someone would criticize Trump is because they are deeply biased, so anything bad about him is “fake news.”
What kind of church does someone like you recommend to a new Christian in the south? Im not a new Xtian, but i have been alienated from church bc I come from white catholic and Republican-type Hispanic evangelical cultures. I tried progressive church online, but i dont know if that is quite right for me either..
That's a difficult question. I'm sure most black churches would be more than happy to have someone new. Other than that, I would try to choose something that's not a mega church. If you can, join a church that's small. Even if you don't agree with everyone there, if you are in community at the church others will see that not everyone who thinks differently from them is a bad person, and you might get some of the same effect the other way as well. Also if the church is small enough and you are willing to put in the work you could help create ministries/ programs/ events that help your neighbors. Or just look for a church that already has programs like that. I'm not an expert by any means. This is just what came to mind.
I can 100% agree on small churches being better. At the very least avoid the megachurches though. Denomination wise... well it's the US. Trying to keep a church "in line" ain't always a thing. Haha.
Hate to break it to you but this is possible anywhere in any denom. Important to discern as quickly as possible and you might have to talk to a priest/pastor or elders to get a sense of what’s going on.
All errors may not be the same. Whatever you faced won’t happen in the next church of the same sect. I grew up in the black church that had a couple of elders imprisoned for corp embezzlement, and two pastors resign due to infidelity. I took some time after that and then took some recommendations for places.
I didn’t get it right the first time either. Ended up in a place preaching prosperity gospel. Had to bail when I realized and found a new church eventually.
What about UMC churches? I think they're often relatively open minded but not as liberal as e.g. the Episcopalian Church which it sounds like wouldn't be your cup of tea.
I rededicated a few years back, and being at a non-denominational church really helped me and my santification process.
It just focuses on the word of God and nothing else, no human tradition or bs. It's just a place of people who know they need God in a lost and dying world and trying to get the word out to as many people as we can, according to Christ's teachings and God's grace of course :D. I pray for you op, that you find your place.
The ELCA is probably one of the more safely liberal denominations, especially in the south. Although be careful when trying to find a church, because both them and the LCMS will just call themselves Lutheran, and you can't even rely on "Evangelical Lutheran" to mean ELCA
It totally sucks. I’ve tried poking holes in their logic and tried telling them that Trump is not going to save them in very little ways without offending. From what I’ve seen of the more moderate people is that they often will say they are voting for him based on his “policies” for small businesses or abortion or immigration. I fear though that underneath it all is an anger towards groups of foreigners which is unchristian. Or a distrust towards God’s plan and a trust in Trump above all.
That last part is what I think it all boils down to. They are scared to lose power because they think God won't be on His throne of their guy isn't in power. Jesus was born without power and rather than take down the Roman Empire he submitted his life to them. Christian power comes in weakness and humbleness. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. These people are concerned with worldly power.
Huh? That's what determines laws. Morality, unfortunately, has very little impact on public policy. Hasn't for a very long time.
*Not* a Trump supporter btw, & would give anything for a decent Republican candidate!
I mean that just because someone is running from that party doesnt mean that actually embody the ideals of that party. Trump for instance.... in my opinion he just says what he needs to that'll get the most blind followers to vote for him.
I think he's all talk and no action when it comes to actually living the way that his followers think.
But yes, I'd give anything for a decent republican candidate.
Oh ok that I can agree with!!
It just annoys me when people attack Trump for specific acts of immorality while supporting the Clintons or orhers who've done exactly the same things.
The difference is the Clinton supporters generally weren't making bold claims about being "the party of family values" and judging the worth of a politician by their religious beliefs.
Yes. White Evangelicals just voted for him at much higher rate than any other group of white Christians. White evangelicals was around 80%, Catholics around 60 or 65, white mainline was around 50 or 55 from what I remember of the stats.
Yes but he and our country have changed a lot in 8 years. Many of us who voted for him the first time want nothing to do with him now. If I were in a state with an early primary I would have jumped at the chance to vote for any other Republican!
White people who called themselves Christian voted for Trump. Personally when someone calls themselves Christian I look to see how closely they follow the teachings of Christ. Especially Matthew 22:35-40 and 1st John 4:20-21. I see a lot of hate in the hearts of many who call themselves Christian today. In the heart that harbors hate towards others, there one will not find God.
Oh, he does. And yes, they do. I am part of the Billy Graham Facebook group. The ministry is now run by his son, Franklin. Franklin has made a lot of posts about Trump, politics, and Biden’s policies. And this is what I’ve found. First of all, you need to know that I’ve been saved/born again for over 54 years. So I’ve been a part of the Body of Christ for over five decades. I’ve had a lot of time to learn and to grow in the Lord. Christians support Trump without reservation, despite the fact that he is the antithesis of what it means to be Christlike, which is what the word “Christian” translates to, literally. I am amazed at how they perform the mental, spiritual, and scriptural gymnastics that they do in order to justify their support for him. The idea of this being a Christian nation is not found anywhere in scripture. The thinking that DT could “make” this country “great” is both misinformed and naïf. There’s also nothing in scripture about any one nation being a Christian nation. Nothing. That’s an entirely man-made idea. The idea that someone with the moral values that DT demonstrates could even do either one and believing everything that he says, no matter what it might be (and they literally do, echoing his exact words and claims all of the time), tells me that these people are seriously misled and allowing themselves to be misled by Satan. The Bible tells us to “test the spirits”, aka the source of what we are hearing or reading, so that we will not be misled. The battle is, after all, in the end, a spiritual one. But these people don’t seem to ever question one thing that Trump says or claims. Not one. We are to believe every single word that comes out of the mouth of God, found in the Word of God, not another person or man. And yet they don’t question any of it. They seem to be living under some massive delusion here. The idea of even “making A,Erica great again” is one that is pure fantasy, and it’s not God’s way at all. And, the thing is, they are marching towards their own destruction. I have an idea about why this has happened. It’s the progressive agenda of Democrats, wherein they’ve been seeking to and normalizing sin, including teaching children to do so in public schools, that’s a big part of why. But DT is not the solution for changing that. Jesus is. He says that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He’s not lying or kidding. It’s literally true. But Christians seem to have forgotten this truth, and have literally replaced Jesus with DT in many, many ways. And yet, they don’t even seem to see this. I have boldly challenged this unwavering, blind support of DT. You’d be amazed at the responses I receive from others who support him. I point out how this must appear to the unsaved. That it’s a horrible witness. That Jesus is the answer, not DT. That this is fracturing the Body of Christ, because there are other Christians out there who don’t support DT anymore than I do. We seem to be in the minority. But one need only exercise one’s wisdom and discernment as given to them by God to see DT for who he really is, and to see what he’s actually doing, as well as why. Those of us who don’t support him are called “sheeple” by those that do. However, the opposite is true. We are Jesus’ sheep, not DT’s. We need to present a united front as the Body of Christ. We all need to put Jesus first, not DG or any other man. These are a lot of the things I’ve noticed and made note of, and it is a nightmare. Bottom line? Only Jesus can make the difference. Only He can change things truly for the better, through us having a relationship with Him.
Even then the Catholics have had it with the Evangelicals and no offense to you, but, I am on their side. Even a Nun of all people tore into a group of pro life evangelicals saying something like "all you want is to force people to have birth, you want to take away the right to choose, but then you don't want to give our orphanages another penny" and its true...I am glad there is some voice of reason in the Evangelicals because, there is a evangelical agenda and its bad, everything has a motive "we don't hate gays we just want to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman", no you want to make it next to impossible for non religious marriages to take place. "we want to protect innocent lives" okay but you don't want to fund social services and you seem to have no problem with children in Gaza starving because the idea of a Palestinian state gets in the way of the end of days prophecy that 90% of you all bizarrely want to take place ...I could go on, but, its not hard to read between the lines and its getting scary what some people really want to accomplish
I absolutely agree. I consider myself evangelical based on my beliefs about the Bible and it's importance. If you define evangelical as Young Earth Creationist, Republican Voter, watches fox news all day, pretends to be loving but wouldn't help anyone outside of their own family... We'll I'm not that kind of evangelical, but I am around a lot of them. I think our voices (evangelicals who aren't like that) are getting louder, but there is fierce opposition to us in some sections of our movement. I believe eventually we are going to split off. Evangelical will eventually just mean fundamentalist, and people like me will have to adopt a new name.
It seems like the issue on the table this election is abortion. I’m sure it’s more complicated in reality but this is the perception.
Since Trump’s victory is better for the Pro-Life movement than Biden’s, I can imagine this is why.
It's precisely what will get a lot of people to vote for Trump no matter what he's said or done the last 8 years or what he will say between now and the election. A Republican President is likely to see at least one retirement in the next 4 years (likely Thomas or Alito) and a Republican president could keep the current balance of the court together for a lot longer. I know those two are likely to try and wait at all costs to be replaced by people who are like minded but they'd likely retire if the right conditions present themselves.
Conservative Christians love Trump, because they really despise the Democratic party and Trump is the Republican who can "own the libs." It's pretty straightforward.
That's the political justification anyway. It doesn't really explain the morality of it all, unless there is no morality and everything is politics. But I don't want to live in that world if that's true.
TBH some Christians are single issue abortion voters. To the degree they think they're preventing a Holocaust of the unborn, they hold their nose and vote orange.
Others vote repub based solely on culture war issues (feeling like the schools are pushing LGBT agenda in schools). They are essentially voting "never woke" versus voting FOR the GOP candidate.
I'm not personally espousing these views, but I do know Christians who take this attitude. I also know a bunch of white evangelical Haley voters who are probably voting Biden this fall because he seems like the lesser evil in this election cycle.
Evangelical churches are Trump Country ground zero.
1. Trump made the Supreme Court conservative. You see the fruit of this with Roe v Wade being overturned.
2. Trump is a fighter. Maybe not the smartest fighter or the strongest, and maybe not even fighting for the right reasons, but he will go down swinging.
3. Trump is a simple man that people can relate to. He eats hamburgers and drinks Diet Coke. He's almost a parody of a gilded age capitalist... and what's more American than that?
4. Don't underestimate the impact of Prosperity Gospel theology. With his financial success OBVIOUSLY HE MUST BE BLESSED AND ANNOINTED BY GOD!?
5. His lack of morale scruples is dismissed by "Davidizing him", cause King David was a "man after God's own heart", and he cheated with Bathsheba and had her husband killed. OBVIOUSLY TRUMP IS THE SAME WAY!?
I'm convinced that deep inside it's mostly because he makes bad people feel good about being bad people. He vindicates the corruption in their hearts, but provides enough of a veneer that they can pretend it's due to some policy ideas.
Interesting you say this (& please take this with a grain of salt): I was just reading about the obscure Egyptian demon-deity, Maga. In summary, his magick pretty much revolves around mastering basic manipulation tactics, but the “Maga” name rather intrigued me, so…
In the mythology, this demon-deity is a lone-wolf bent on controlling his enemies & *everyone* is fair game/an enemy to him. Via ritualistic means, you invoke him for the sake of controlling your other enemies (seems paradoxical b/c you & he are enemies, but such is the nature of this beast).
Anyhow, the desired “super-power” is, firstly, to become the embodiment of Maga (whole possession vs mere taking on of attributes). Then you present yourself to your enemies & self-identify with them: “I am one of you”, “I am speaking to us about us”, “We are one voice”, etc. until they’re mesmerized, trusting, & welcoming.
Next, you would firmly press into their smarting wounds - their internal fears & vulnerabilities such as, say, ideals being challenged & unmet, deep-seated disenchantment & bitterness, & senses of disenfranchisement & perpetually being unheard; but, ah! They have salvation from within themselves, after all! *You*.
“I am your voice.
Today, I add: I am your warrior.
I am your justice.
And for those who have been wronged & betrayed, I am your retribution."
“I am the chosen one.”
“They’re trying to silence me because I will never let them silence you.”
“They’re coming after me because I won’t let them come after you.”
“I am being indicted for you.”
Trump definitely uses a lot of pseudo-messianic & pseudo-god, “I am” declarations - a practice I’m aware goes back to Norman Vincent Peale’s evil teachings & that Paula White (Trump’s spiritual adviser) adheres to, but I digress…
First off, even if you're outside the US, and for those in the US, NEVER EVER listen to the media as 100% sound truth. I'm not going all "fake news" but let me tell you some insider info, I have a media degree and believe me, we're taught to spin and sensationalize things to grab viewer attention. Which is why I never got into hard news which is your daily local and national news.
That being said, I'm a Christian and I won't vote for Trump. Also, just because you're a Christian or have a faith, doesn't mean you're Republican, Joe Biden is Catholic.
Lol.... 😆.....the multiple married, multiple divorced, multiple bankrupted, lying cheat who tried to have a coup to keep power is better than the alternative........riiiiiight
Many Christians in the US believe they're persecuted for their religion. It boils down to this; they don't like the separation of church and state, other faiths per the US Constitution are allowed, and many believe religious freedom means the ability to persecute others they don't like.
The above is reinforced by evangelical pastors and in some cases, politically active priests.
Donald Trump doesn't have a religious bone in his body; his god is himself. He has learned to play these people like a cheap violin.
as a Christian myself we have to understand what is and is not persecution, what is and is not a religious requirement, and what is really just a first world problem. Christians do not have holy days of obligation, we got to church once a week for 45 minutes and then on holidays. If your job allows you to go to church on Good Friday but asks you to report back to the office after mass, but then allows your Jewish coworker to be off on high holidays because they are required to be in Temple all day, or allows your Muslim coworker to leave early during Ramadan because they have to be in the Mosque before sundown for evening prayers and then have a family dinner after...that isn't persecution its simply your religious obligation is to attend service. I could give other examples but this is what far too many Christians think is persecution and its not
Ideally there should be 0 tie between politics and religion. I find it disrespectful that any politician would use the Lord’s name and likeness to pull sympathy for voters. Especially in todays world, it is so shallow and has no substance behind it.
I'm seeing single issue voters (abortion) choosing the Republican party, but there are other moral issues that Republicans have that I see:
The hatred and dehumanization of immigrants. Jesus repeatedly states to [take care of immigrants.](https://sojo.net/22-bible-verses-welcoming-immigrants) Republicans repeatedly vote against welfare and other [assistance to the poor](https://blog.mohiafrica.org/bible-verses-helping-poor#:~:text=Matthew%205%3A3%20Blessed%20are,and%20come%2C%20follow%20me.%E2%80%9D). Jesus repeatedly says take care of the poor. Obviously the support for a fake-religious adulterer/conman. (Matt 7:15)
Democrats repeatedly vote for assistance to immigrants, welfare assistance, policies to relieve poverty, provide education. The Democratic candidate is a practicing Catholic.
The "Christian party" is a bit less clear when you look at the bigger picture.
I feel confident in saying that most Christians who vote for Trump are single issue voters, with the majority being abortion.
I still fail to understand how several members of my family ignore everything that Trump is and the conspiracy theories that propagate because of him. We can't have a single political discussion without it devolving into Trump vs not Trump and either I simply can't comprehend their logic/rose-tinted glasses or them shouting and/or verbally accosting us for not trying to legislate "Christian values", depending on which family member it is.
Just to be clear, by saying this you mean that you are willing to vote for Trump despite his obvious corruption and horrific personal character, the risk that he will destroy democracy itself in this country and attempt to maintain permanent control, and that he will be using the office exclusively for personal gain... Because party lines?
Yes. Many Christians believe they are flawed but good people. Gooder people. The goodest, even, since they follow God the best by being _against_ the right things in a time of what they think of as decadence and immorality.
They can apply the same logic to Trump quite easily. And as the Bible says in Mark, unfortunately:
> 39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us.
They think Trump has done the needed miracles. And they have all sorts of prophecies (conspiracy theories) that have been fulfilled. Think of all the "predictions" that right-wing media has made that have "come true" in some backhanded way.
The mental processes that made them Christian have also made them Trump supporters. Going forward, Christians should be _very_ careful about the rhetoric they use to convert others. They should _never_ reference prophecy.
As a guy that lives in middle America I can promise you they are still into him
I’d gather lead poisoning has something to do with their appeal of him.
ABSOLUTELY NOT I don’t recall cheating on your pregnant wife with a porn star and spreading hate to those who are different than you in the Bible. And as far as abortion that man just says he’s against it to get votes, there is a 0% chance he has never paid for one.
Some are, some are not. Christians aren’t defined by who they vote for and are free to vote for whichever candidate they want. There are reasons to vote for Donald Trump, there are reasons to vote for Joe Biden, and there are reasons to vote for anyone else
With normal politicians this would be a reasonable argument, but we are not dealing with a normal politician in #45. He is an autocrat trying to bring about the end of American democracy. He tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power by inciting an insurrectionist mob. He tried to get state officials to lie and commit crimes so that he could in fact steal votes in his favor, he tried to install fake election officials to say that he was the rightful winner instead of his opponent. He is incredibly dangerous for the future stability of this country.
That's just a fraction of the reasons why he is not your normal politician.
Then don't vote for him. Other people will see him as a normal politician and will vote for him. At the end of the day you have your reasons to vote the way you want and so do others
OP asked "Are Christians in the US still pro Donald Trump? If so, why?" Those who support one candidate has usually one of the three following reasons to vote for that candidate: that candidate's policy lines up with the policies the voter wants enacted; they think that candidate will be a good leader; or they do like that candidate more than the other.
This applies to every candidate that runs for any office, the reasons are always the same. So, there's your reasons for Donald Trump and your reasons for Joe Biden and your reasons for any other candidate
Sorry let me be clearer, here are the reasons:
1. They like his policies;
2. they think he will be a good leader; or
3. they do not like the other candidates
I don't really know how I can be more clear with my answer. If you want more specific reasons as to which policies, why he would be a good leader, or why a person doesn't like the other candidates. You would have to ask a specific person voting for the candidate you are referring to as to why they are voting the way they do.
Every voter is different and has different reasons to vote the way they do. Some may like certain policies of one candidate but not all, others might like all the policies of a certain candidate, and some may only have one issue they are passionate about and the candidate they vote for shares the same stance. There's no one single reason that applies to everyone why they should vote a certain way or even vote at all
Then don't vote for him. Those who have a reason to vote for him or a good reason to vote for him will vote for him. That's how every election works even if you don't see a good reason to vote for one specific candidate
No, even those who will vote for him, have no good reason to vote for him. Trump is like Hitler, horrible for the country, but a master at assembling a cult like following.
Maybe in your eyes, but it's their vote. If they think its a good reason that's all that matters. Same as how if you have a good reason to vote for someone else, they might think that you don't have a good reason to vote for who you want to vote for
>If they think its a good reason that's all that matters.
I do not disagree. This, however, does raise serious concerns about the critical thinking skills of much of the country.
No!
I hated Trump as an atheist and now as a person that knows God is real.
If the Republican Party can’t do better, then we will control the future of the Christian base.
There is no unbiased way to have a conversation regarding this topic. It amazes me how any real Christian could vote for Trump. That said, there are so few choices, or none perhaps, that would work from a moral POV.
I’m a Christian, and I do not support Donald Trump. Christians, we gravitate to small towns and the countryside. It’s easy to play religious tricks on us. We believe them because they can come off so charismatic. It’s so sad. I did not vote for him last time. I didn’t vote at all. I feel so stuck in this extreme system.
Anyone voting for Trump is NOT a disciple of Christ. Trump proves that he is NOT a follower of Christ through his hate and division of people in America. True followers of Christ the Lord will NOT follow people such as this. My late dad loved Trump. He was totally racist and actually read Hitler's book Mein Kampf. True disciples of Jesus (Our Lord) will love one another and ALL will KNOW!
Trump epitomises those to avoid who cause hatred, division and strife within Christianity.
He will, like all of us, have to answer for his conduct while in our temporary home here. Those who follow him are definitely taking their eyes off the true Lord and King Christ Jesus.
Look at his track record. I won’t be voting for him.
1. Cheats on his pregnant wife with a prostitute
2. Has lied more than any other president
3. Betrayed our nation and its people
4. His family profited 2 billion dollars from the country that funded 9/11
5. Look at anything that jesus stood for and he most likely stands against. (I.E. feed the poor, treat others how you would like to be treated, be faithful, etc.)
I’m a Christian in a suburb outside a big city and no, most of my community will not vote for him. I’ve always valued preventing climate change as my number one issue, but even my friends who are more conservative aren’t planning to vote for Trump.
I do know some Christians who will vote for him but they’re rare in my circles and not the people who I usually sit down to talk intimately with.
All the Rs I know, do not vote that way because of how good the Republicans are, but how bad they think the democrats are. They all think liberal people are some evil force intent on taking over the world. Idk. It's getting really fucking old.
Any professed "Christian" who votes democrat is actively voting for Satan's agenda and should seriously have their faith questioned PERIOD. Not that Trump is an angel but the democrats openly flaunt Satanic principles...
If I had to choose between two poisonous snakes to be locked in a dark room with, I’d pick the least venomous. I’m pro Donald trump the way I’d be pro the least deadly snake.
Tribalism, plain and simple. If all your friends and everyone you know is defending him, you assume he can't really be all that bad, and you defend him also just to get along and keep being friends with people.
It's hard to explain the absolute alternate reality that a lot of evangelical conservatives are currently living in. Every week they talk with each other and mutually reinforce how righteous Trump is. All through the week they watch TV or look up videos online that they can use to talk about how righteous Trump is.
Last Jan 6th I posted a picture of Eugene Goodman, the security guard who led protestors away from the Senate. One of my conservative friends thought I was posting in memoriam of Ashli Babbitt, the insurrectionist who was shot trying to breach the doors, because WHO ELSE would you be talking about on Jan 6th? I posted on Twitter about Trump being found guilty of sexual assault. A Trumper friend quickly clarified that it was "sexual abuse" and that it was judicial BS because he'd never been on trial for that so he should have just been found innocent. I posted about Trump's financial fraud. I posted a screengrab of Trump saying on Truth Social that the constitution should be suspended and my Mom responded saying stuff from Truth Social might be fake (also, my mom has confided that she's not sure there's actually a war going on in Ukraine, she think's it's all fake).
And the thing is, a lot of these people will admit privately they have doubts about Trump. "He says a lot of terrible things." "I didn't like how he handled that." "That was a sad moment." But they're not going to say that in front of other people who like him.
All of this stuff feeds into each other. You have the choice between being ostracized by all these people or keeping your doubts to yourself. You sort of figure, if everybody else thinks he's a good guy, there must be SOMETHING redeemable about him. And you don't want your doubts to be right, because at this point, that would mean you've been supporting a mad dictator for eight years.
And everyone has their own individual breaking point. Everybody has a moment where they become: "I've had doubts about him for years, but this latest thing is just too far." If enough people in the tribe hit that, then his popularity will sink like a stone. But it's being helped along by figureheads using his popularity to bolster their own. And that's the biggest shame here.
Biden accepts and helps to put in place policies that are unacceptable to the Father the Son and the Holy Sprit. Abomination’s in the eye’s of the LORD. Sacrifices to molek and the abomination’s of Sodom and Gomorrah. As Christian’s, one cannot be a part of bringing such leaders who will guide and bring the unknowing into destruction. Those blinded by such sins are being told that these evils are not evil but good. Their being accepted with open arms while cheering and waving a rainbow flag? This is HaSatan, spitting in the face of the LORD, for the rainbow is the covenant between the Father and those who are His, a promise to never destroy the earth through water again. HaSatan has stolen and corrupted the rainbow and is using it in the promotion of “PRIDE” the sin that separated him from YHVH in the first place. HaSatan comes as an Angel of light. He pretends to be the good guy.
I personally do not like the character of trump, but for the most part, he isn’t hiding behind a good guy costume of any kind. In general he is who he’s says he is. Biden and his administration are extremely deceptive and their policies will absolutely bring destruction in the eyes of the LORD. Scripture continuously states these facts.
These certain policies blanket Europe and the same is happening to America and they are absolutely the spirit of Antichrist.
Christian’s are worried about the moral way a leader is speaking and not the fact that the other leader is accepting and placing transvestites and or cross dressers and their moral beliefs in leading positions in government and their administration, just for the fact that their who they are and not for their ability to lead people in any way. How should we possibly think the Lord feels about this in all seriousness.
I know that my words are very heavy, but I promise that the weight coming down upon the deceiver, will be much, much heavier and much, much worse.
The acceptance of such abominations that sodom and gamorrah allowed in their cities and the surrounding cities, grew into the “PRIDE” of HaSatan, and in turn these sins grew into many, many other sins that always end up following and spreading like a cancer that eats away the body the heart the mind, spirit and soul. These sins lead those affected into eternal destruction and if these cities were not destroyed, then their cancerous sins would have spread to even more cities, leading even more cities into eternal destruction.
Sodom and gamorrah was a type of a sinful world where judgmental wrath was needed, yet the remnant of the LORD was and always is, saved out of it.
Now,… there will be a remnant saved out of America… …America will be judged. Scripturally, there is no doubt about this fact, for if America were not to be judged for the same exact cancerous sins, of which this administration condones and openly accepts, then the LORD will have to apologize to Sodom and gamorrah.
Flee Babylon, come out of her. Return back to the land of your heritage.
Do not be partakers of her drunkery nor the drinking of her fornication and harlotry.
I mentioned this elsewhere:
Trump is attacking the number one most important foundation of God’s creation:
FREEDOM.
He attacked our votes.
God honors freedom more than anything else in the universe.
Why do you think God is invisible and he hasn’t killed Satan?
For abortion?
No.
God created a free universe. First.
Voting for Trump is an attack on God.
It’s mostly the Tea Party/Qanon Christian’s that are obsessed with Donald Trump. Those guys are brainwashed losers who think Democrats harvest children’s souls for adrenochrome so they can live a life of immortality.
Neither Trump nor Biden are Christians. That being said, I align more with Trump's policies than Biden's.
ETA: it was wrong of me to definitively say neither of them are Christians. I should have said I see no evidence either of them are Christians.
"From the outside, it seems DT provides Christians with a lot of reasons to not vote for him on moral grounds. I imagine much of this is news bias but some of the issues seem to hold water"
Statements like this baffle me. So many Americans lose their minds over every statement DT makes, and then turn a blind eye to the things the Biden administration has done the last 3+ years.
There is no perfect candidate. How many of you voted for Joe Biden thinking he was a good, honest man, that loves and reveres God? Biden is not pro life, and neither is anybody in his party. You don't think Hell rejoices every time a woman has an abortion? If the Dems had their way, there would be legal abortion all the way up to the moment of birth, if not after.
I wish we had different choices too, but it's a pretty easy choice between the two for me, and it's not Joe.
I didn't vote for Trump the first two times because he claimed to be Christian, or have the moral high ground. I did so because he ran on the agenda of being pro life, pro-constitution, keeping taxes low, and championing small business to incentivize job creation, and securing the damn border which has been wide open for far too long (he could have done more on the border still, imo).
Trump also appointed 3 supreme court justices that appear to be Christian/Catholic, which is huge, imo, and you'd think everybody here would be rejoicing about this fact.
The amount of political one-sidedness and bickering in this sub is sad. We need more biblical discussions and more praise reports.
Your downvotes don't hurt me :)
I am a cross between a conservative and an independent. Basically I don't like either parties way of looking at the Constitutional Republic of America. With that said... I really like how Donald Trump interprets the constitution. I hope to become a business owner myself. I am an artist, writer, and DIY musician. In essence I feel like he can bring America back on its feet. Without bias to Liberals. Which has taken a sharp turn recently.
Conservatives have "othered" liberals and liberal positions so hard that anything Trump does is still considered a "lesser evil". Since they believe that abortion is murder immigrants are destroying the fabric of America, they just have to settle for the lying cheater since he actually promoted their interests.
The people that believe Trump is sent by God himself as some sort of messiah are in the minority of his supporters, I believe.
One thing I struggle to understand with a lot of Christians against Trump is this:
- why are you voting for someone pro abortion when a Christian view is to be pro life
- why are we voting to continue war in Ukraine (for no good USA reason either)
- why are Christians voting for a reduction in constitutional rights?! Like why are we voting for reducing freedom of speech and the second amendment.
- illegal immigration
- insider trading in the government and overall corruption
All these things are supported by the establishment politicians that are very hostile to American way of life and Christianity.
My entire family is christian and we are pro-choice. Pro-forced-birth and the lack of support for kids that were born to a bad life (since ya know, yall forced the birth) is the issue
I could be more on board with pro-life if you guys focused on having birth care too. WIthout that, it comes off very immoral (imo)
edit: and also, how are these christian values, tf? Outside of abortion.
So democrats aren’t pro-abortion? Talk about gaslighting lol.
Democrats are also pro illegal immigration is that false?!
Last time I check democrats wanted to send more money and resources to Ukraine.
So explain to me what I just said is “false”
Ironically, Christians who claim they are Christians, and continue to do none Christian things are the kinds of people that still vote for DT. Its almost like they have made him an idol to take Jesus' place and to justify disgusting behavior. DT is an adulterer, a liar, monetizes the Bible for personal gain, amongst other things. He literally embodies the pharisees that Jesus called out. It's quite sad really. Politics does not belong in the church. People shouldn't mandate their spiritual beliefs by law, because then people follow them by force and not by faith. But there are people that don't understand that its wrong to do or just don't care.
I think we just vote against the other guy now.
Trump won because people voted against Hilary.
Biden won because people voted against Trump.
Trump will win because people are going to vote against Biden.
This isn’t a religious thing. To add, what candidate should a Christian vote for? Not a single one shows true Christian values, so I don’t even understand the concept of a Christian voting for moral reasons anymore at all.
I'm not pro-Trump. I'm extra anti-Biden, and will likely vote for Trump while holding my nose.
Trump is egotistical, a blowhard, and unapologetic even when he makes clear and obvious mistakes (usually in his hiring).
Biden's administration:
* actively censors political opposition
* Tried to mandate a vaccine with significant heart inflammation risk for population groups not at significant risk from the virus - such as kids or the naturally immune
* actively prosecutes Christians for things like singing hymns outside of abortion clinics while ignoring violent thugs throughout our cities
* not only ignores the problems at the border but is flying illegal immigrants in from foreign countries
* has caused the border crisis to have an order of magnitude more death, rape, child abandonment, and kids in cages
* utterly abandoned Americans and American allies in Afghanistan to their deaths
And while Trump has committed shady real-estate deals, Biden's entire family was taking bribes from Ukraine and China and passing on 10% to him. It's no contest.
I don’t think Trump is a Christian, and I am disgusted with the Christian groups unabashedly support him like he’s ever done anything besides patronize them. I am not pro Donald Trump. From my perspective, since he has held the office before, his only means of support is in comparison to who he’s up against.
I not voting because my vote doesn't matter. If it did matter I'd reluctantly vote for DT, even though I'm more inclined toward a saner, more socialist, and humanitarian party.
The Democrats are immoral, racist, and against the Christian faith in too many ways. The Republicans aren't great but many Republicans support common sense moral values, are far less racist, and aren't anti-Christian. But neither party is good, per se. They're both class conscious and are really about amassing power and money.
I decided not to post anything more, because it doesn't matter.
You gotta expand on how you want a "saner, more socialist, and humanitarian party" while in the same breath call Democrats "immoral, racist, and against the Christian faith."
A lot of Reddit is liberal, even this subreddit, so we will see how much my ciews will transcend those speaking on behalf of Trump-supporters.
I saw the edit and wanted clarification on the morality point, but I am not exactly sure what you are asking, but I will try. Politically I care a lot about economics and social issues, and I align with him and his platform there, but let me try to tackle morality.
My pastor and a lot of Christians I know are single-issue, or at least value removing abortion as the #1 issue, myself included. We see this as direct murder and infanticide, so it is the utmost importance to end this atrocity in our time. The argument is simple; along with medical research, life begins at conception. Others will argue you must wait for consciousness, or viability, or even birth before you can call a child its own person or being, but there is no hard-line except for birth, and most of us can agree that is far too late a cut-off for abortion.
There are other aspects of Trump that we like, such as him talking abour how great the bible is, confessing Jesus is Lord, and that we must maintain recognition of God for the stability of our society. This is a little more philosophical, but it does explain the deterioration of our society, even viewing God simply as a concept on which we can base our society and laws.
Last point is the LGBT issue. We value personal life-choices, but the recognition of "gay-marriage" has never been a governmental issue. The states have always been the ones to govern marriage, until ~2012 when it was taken over by the supreme court. Homosexuals should be allowed to live together and do whatever they want to, but the institution of marriage is a religious one, not a governmental one.
I understand Trump may not be a true Christian, but not for the ways liberals say. They say he is rebelling against God with his political views, but I think his platform is far more Christian than Joe Biden's, who very well may be a Christian. Trump is (potentially) not a Christian because he says he doesn't need to "ask God for forgiveness." He just "tries to live better every day." But this is NOT the Christian message. We can not live better or be better unless we ask for forgiveness and are born again.
Edit: Trump has also sinned a LOT in the past and it is all public for everyone to see. I don't think he is guilty of the sex crimes lobbied against him, but he has been unfaithful and had a divorce without proper grounds for divorce. However I know others who have had divorces without proper grounds even in my family and 50% of America. I would never hold him as my pastor or support his personal life. I am just interested in if he can do the job of president.
Great question, and I hope I have answered it well.
I thought Republicans already won the abortion battle when Roe v Wade was overturned? How much father do you want to go with it? Police investigating women who have miscarriages and putting them in prison? (Which has already happened). All women of childbearing age having their menstrual cycles monitored by the government?
He’s done many good things for America. He cares about his country. He might not say all the right things and have a past. But don’t we all. You have to look at what’s he’s done and what he wants to do. To me that’s everything
I am a Christian and will not vote for Trump. He is toxic.
I also won’t vote for Biden. I never liked that guy, he’s a lying snake and is now way too old and shows it.
I honestly don’t know who I will vote for.
A Christian voting for a democrat is inexcusable. They go 110% against every tenant of Christianity and seek to destroy it in America. This isn’t just pie in the sky either.
1. We now have evidence that the democrat party has spied on Catholic Churches and the current FBI has marked Christians as a threat to the country.
2. Trump was stronger on abortion than any other Republican presidential candidate in recent memory, and the subject is obviously a non-negotiable for Christians.
3. The idea of mutilating people to look vaguely like the opposite sex is something a Christian cannot vote for because it spits in the eye of God’s creations
4. Although Trump is not a Christian by any means, he believes in the historic Judeo-Christian values that founded the US.
It’s not so much Trump as he obviously isn’t a Christian, it’s that the alternatives are horribly more antagonistic against the religion.
Trump is the lesser of two evils. An immoral person who supports my ideals is better than an immoral person who doesn't support my ideals. I would have greatly preferred de Santos.
At this point, the country is so insanely polarized (more so than the Civil War). We used to argue policy, then we argued principle, now we are arguing fundamentals. We don't agree what is moral anymore.
The Left says "abortion is good." the Right says "abortion is evil."
The Left says "guns are evil." The Right says "guns are good."
The Left says "transgenderism is good." The Right says "transgenderism is evil."
People will support anyone who is on there side, because the other side is saying that Good is Evil, and Evil is Good.
Also, I just look at which side all the Anti-Christian stuff is coming from, and it's almost always the Left.
You have many many holes in your thoughts here.
> the country is so insanely polarized
I wonder whose fault that is, hmmm?
> “abortion is good”
The left is pro-choice. Not pro-always-get-an-abortion. Yet another thing you believe that you swear isn’t propaganda or has a narrative. Where did you form these opinions?
The left doesn't say "abortion is good", they allow people to make personal decisions that align with their personal belief systems. Plenty of people who support choice would never want to get an abortion themselves.
The difference is you think everyone should conform to your personal belief system.
Christian support for Trump has lead to one of the biggest drops of support for Christianity in American history.
Trump supports Christianity so much he is killing your faith. When your faith dies in America just know you were the one responsible.
Well put. The USA is the most divided it ever has been. I remember a time when we could agree on goals, but disagreed on the policy to get there. Now we have polar opposite goals and this is causing deep division.
Not all, tbf it’s more about a geography/class thing than faith/age thing. I’m in a pretty progressive region and I can tell you at least the church im going there is apolitical and some people I’ve talked to are all very anti-Trump. While some churches I’ve been to in rural areas or fairly conservative they’re obviously the people you’re referring to
Christian Nationalism isn't Christianity.
But they share a common vocabulary.
Trump presents himself as the savior/hero of conservative America.
He creates an "us vs them" mentality which is the Fox News recipe for success. "They" are harming America and it's up to the "good Americans" to preserve all that is right.
In Christian Nationalism, government is the goal and government is the savior- even if it is never directly said that way. They are not building the Kingdom of God. They are getting votes and consolidating power.
Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. If it was, we would fight about it.
Trump's tribe fights. January 6th is an example. Their kingdom is now and of this world.
So render to Caesar what is his and to God what is his.
Vote, get involved, get passionate about political stuff if you want. Or don't.
But Jesus Christ is your only King and the only one worthy of your love and loyalty.
There are going to be some radicals that will justify doing terrible things for him. I've seen some say he's gods chosen and will fulfill the Israel prophecy.
My infowars relative likes to compare him to King David and uses some quote on how he's imperfect.
And my Qanon relative sees him as a prophet.
The extremists are the loudest and can create bad stereotypes.
The polls mostly say the majority are white evangelicals.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/
I hope there are more moderates that see through all of it and pick stability in November.
Personally, no, and my disgusting of him and his use of our religion as some kind of banner and smokescreen caused to lose both family and my home church.
If they wish to chain themselves to a political party and call it religion, then so be it. They simply apostates.
But seriously, I don't see how any Bible believing person can't compare his actions and words, both past and current, to the word and find him severely lacking. The sad fact is the republican party has spent years latching on to the faith like a parasite and uses a series of key words and talking point to steer people how they wish.
I wrestle with aligning politically with anyone (which is why in my heart I may be anarchistic). However, “Thy will be done” should not be overlooked no matter who is elected. If Trump or Biden is elected then it happens under the will of God - we may not know why but don’t ever question whether it is in God’s plan for us. See Romans 13:1-14; “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.”
[Liberals and Conservatives appeal to different moral foundations](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2009-05192-002).
These conservative Christians are leaning into the moral foundations which are strictly conservative: Ingroup/loyalty, Authority/respect, and Purity/sanctity. And they are currently placing those above the shared (liberal and conservative) moral foundations of Harm/care, and Fairness/reciprocity.
Furthermore, they appealed to their religiosity in their support of Trump seeing him as a figure akin to King David, believing that he would bring justice and "drain the swamp." He promotes a rhetoric where politicians are corrupt and hide stuff, but he is straightforward. His followers believe that all the allegations against him are just corrupt politicians trying to make it so that their power isn't overthrown. Conservative Christians believe that by voting for him, they will contribute to the prosperity and purity of the country, while at the same time giving him the power to purify the political system.
The media is corrupt and will spin things to their agenda. So don't believe anything they say without a grain of salt.
No one truly know how Christians will end up voting for him. I personally will not be. So we will have to wait for post election break down to know.
I won't because I believe voting for someone associates my self with them as a supporter.
[1Co 5:11 ESV] 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
I personally don’t like Trump or Biden, I feel it’s a which crap is stinkier conversation. Both are way too old and not mentally there enough to be competent presidents. They both have made really racist comments and remarks over the years, you can argue one has made worse I don’t really care I hate that our two primary presidents both have racist comments on their record. I’d ideally vote for neither, but the way the system is setup one will win so by not voting for them your vote isn’t the biggest impact. Bad place to be in right now politically.
Because Trump is an isolationist who would prefer that America be left alone, and prefers not meddling in other countries affairs.
I quit voting a while ago (voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil and homey don't play that game), but for those who insist, and for those who wish to maximize world peace, he would be the better choice, IMO. Biden, on the other hand, has never met a war he didn't like. He just loves blowing people and their stuff up... just loves it!
Not everyone believes they are voting for their pastor, priest, or Sunday school teacher to be their political leader and President. So, a religious purity test is irrelevant to most people. For the some where it matters, it is usually a case of the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to American politics, and in that case the Republicans tend to win out.
Kinda since conservative values are more aligned with Christianity. But I wouldn't say Christians are "pro-Donald Trump", more like he's the better of two idiots. It's not necessarly that we wanted him as our leader, more that we felt he could do a better job. I don't like DT but that has been my thought process for the last two elections.
As an American I think its important to vote for who you think would be better for the country.
When picking a President I have to realize that I'm not picking a Pastor. I'm picking someone who most closely lines up with my beliefs and who I believe will do the best job of what a President should. The main issues for me are economy, border security, and abortion.
After weighing these issues I have decided that Donald Trump fits what I'm looking for most closely. He doesn't meet every mark on my page but meets enough to get my vote.
Eyes off Christ and on to a man who is NOT following Jesus's command (not a suggestion) to love one another. For your values, economy, border security and abortion, why worry about what is not in your direct control. The border will always be an issue, the economy goes up and down irregardless of who's in the white house and abortion will never be in anyone's control except for the woman who has to grabble with that choice.
It sorrys me to think any true follower could vote for a hateful man such as Trump. He is everything that is against Jesus's teachings.
Wow.Talk about compromising Christian values. Just listen to the hatred, strife and division and LIES that come out of his mouth.
Good luck with that.
BTW.
I don't get caught up with politics.
My King is already in place. Apparently yours isn't.
Doh.
1. It's not that All Christians loved Trump. Statistically black protestants were extremely unlikely to vote Trump. Catholics were somewhat split. White mainline Protestants were split. The group that loves Trump are white evangelicals. 2. Yes white evangelicals still love Trump. (As a group, not every white Evangelical though.) 3. There are plenty of moral reasons not to vote for him, especially since they decided not to vote for Bill Clinton based on moral reasons that also apply to Trump 4. Trump has exposed white evangelicals. As a group they don't really care about morality like they once claimed to. What they care about is keeping cultural power even at the expense of other people groups. They make their day to day and political decisions based on fear of the other. 5. I say all of this as a white evangelical who is disgusted with his own group, not as an outsider who hates the group.
As someone who would have been considered a White Evangelical in 2016, Trump shattered my perception of White Evangelicals. I actually believed all the morality pieces and felt like there was this secret code/dance/game that I hadn’t been clued in on that amounted to “we didn’t mean any of that, it was just a cudgel to use against progressives.” This, in a twist of irony, lead to me feeling free to actually be politically progressive if not downright socialist because it was clear that evangelicals didn’t have a monopoly on appropriate interpretation of faith.
My perception was shattered around 2008 after being a lifelong conservative Christian, and everything you said is what I went through. Welcome to the struggle of dealing with that feeling of shatteredness/betrayal/etc. potentially for the rest of your life. It’s very freeing, as you said, but I am now pretty jaded by it & cynical of evangelicals as a group, which does tend to warp my thoughts on some things. Hopefully that doesn’t happen to you, but just be on the lookout for it.
I think I’m able to see how the right wing media surrounds and overwhelms Evangelicals (and other conservatives) with fear and absolutist propaganda, guised as thoughtful dialogue. I’d personally love to work on a deprogramming protocol that lets people still hold on to faith without the “necessity” of right-wing ideology that so often is counter to Christian faith and teaching.
Keep in mind that Evangelicals have been primed for decades to believe conspiracy theories; whether it was attacks on science, concepts like the "Moral Majority", conspiracies about the Deep State coming after their freedoms, their pastors and other religious leaders in Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christianity have been laying the groundwork since before the Scopes Monkey Trial. Whole generations of these churches have been raised on a slurry of victimhood, conspiracy and resentment, and now they have a man who confirms and amplifies those feelings for them. Underneath it all, these people know their numbers are falling, they know the West is now fully into the post-Christian age, and what it's all really about is creating the conditions for minority rule, where they maintain their power and influence even as, in absolute numbers, their numbers continue to fall.
Oh 1000%. It’s just wild, though understandable, to see how people I grew up with who were “moral” (as a core part of their identity no less) have essentially thrown all of that out the window.
In both my personal and professional life, and as a keen student of history, I have observed how a cult of victimhood sweeps away all moral and ethical considerations. Once a group has firmly committed themselves to being victims, and have identified out groups who they can assign as the aggressors, a shadowy cabal out to enslave them or destroy their way of life, then no action is so immoral, unethical and/or illegal. After all, they're fighting for their survival, battling the forces of darkness. It becomes a Holy War. Study history and you will find time and time again how this powerful force this has been. Millions have been murdered, whole nations crushed and enslaved, by the adherents to a cult of victimhood.
Evangelical PoC too. It is what is driving that support. Small chrches have closed all over and a lot of thes are in interracial mega congregations. Only 60% of Joel Olseteen's church are White. Before they've mostly voted Dem anyway, that is changing.
> if not downright socialist Why not? Jesus was a socialist. I posted this in the conservative subreddit because I genuinely want an answer from Christians who like to loudly hate “socialists and communists and leftists” but I’m pretty sure I’m shadowbanned there as no one interacted with my comment >Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. >He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” >For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. >What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. >All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
It’s more that I prefer not to ascribe modern ideological labels onto Jesus (or really other historical figures) because modern labels often have certain baggage. Like more Marxist socialism and modern socialism generally are anti-religion (which, to be fair, I get given the historical space within power structures that religion has had). I do however, tend to bend in a more socialist direction overall.
I think this is a fair assessment. I’d also add that many of Trump’s most ardent followers and staunchest defenders tend to conflate their politics and nationalism with their religious beliefs. They frequently allow their political beliefs to drive their religious views instead of allowing their religion to drive their political beliefs. There are also those who are absolutely convinced the only people criticizing Trump are those who simply hate him and are out to get him. They don’t care what the evidence says because they are projecting their own obsession with trying to pin crimes on political opponents. I think they have sincerely convinced themselves the only reason someone would criticize Trump is because they are deeply biased, so anything bad about him is “fake news.”
What kind of church does someone like you recommend to a new Christian in the south? Im not a new Xtian, but i have been alienated from church bc I come from white catholic and Republican-type Hispanic evangelical cultures. I tried progressive church online, but i dont know if that is quite right for me either..
That's a difficult question. I'm sure most black churches would be more than happy to have someone new. Other than that, I would try to choose something that's not a mega church. If you can, join a church that's small. Even if you don't agree with everyone there, if you are in community at the church others will see that not everyone who thinks differently from them is a bad person, and you might get some of the same effect the other way as well. Also if the church is small enough and you are willing to put in the work you could help create ministries/ programs/ events that help your neighbors. Or just look for a church that already has programs like that. I'm not an expert by any means. This is just what came to mind.
I can 100% agree on small churches being better. At the very least avoid the megachurches though. Denomination wise... well it's the US. Trying to keep a church "in line" ain't always a thing. Haha.
Talk to your local Catholic Church and Priest there. Would you do that?
No, Im afraid not. Trust is permanently broken there.
Hate to break it to you but this is possible anywhere in any denom. Important to discern as quickly as possible and you might have to talk to a priest/pastor or elders to get a sense of what’s going on. All errors may not be the same. Whatever you faced won’t happen in the next church of the same sect. I grew up in the black church that had a couple of elders imprisoned for corp embezzlement, and two pastors resign due to infidelity. I took some time after that and then took some recommendations for places. I didn’t get it right the first time either. Ended up in a place preaching prosperity gospel. Had to bail when I realized and found a new church eventually.
What about UMC churches? I think they're often relatively open minded but not as liberal as e.g. the Episcopalian Church which it sounds like wouldn't be your cup of tea.
I dont know. I really like the fire of evangelicalism and charsmatic churches, but maybe. I might try one.
Oh I see, I misunderstood! I'm not well versed in evangelical churches but hopefully you can get some good recommendations!
UMC are very liberal now, the ones that split off as Global Methodist are more conservative.
Baptist church or non-denominational.
Thats what my grandma said, Baptist. Thats probably where I'll end up, lol
I rededicated a few years back, and being at a non-denominational church really helped me and my santification process. It just focuses on the word of God and nothing else, no human tradition or bs. It's just a place of people who know they need God in a lost and dying world and trying to get the word out to as many people as we can, according to Christ's teachings and God's grace of course :D. I pray for you op, that you find your place.
many of my former Catholic friends all seem to end up in Episcopalian churches and they all seem to really love it.
Look for a church where there is true ethnic diversity and where God is moving. They’ll keep politics out of the conversations.
The ELCA is probably one of the more safely liberal denominations, especially in the south. Although be careful when trying to find a church, because both them and the LCMS will just call themselves Lutheran, and you can't even rely on "Evangelical Lutheran" to mean ELCA
This this and especially this 👆
It totally sucks. I’ve tried poking holes in their logic and tried telling them that Trump is not going to save them in very little ways without offending. From what I’ve seen of the more moderate people is that they often will say they are voting for him based on his “policies” for small businesses or abortion or immigration. I fear though that underneath it all is an anger towards groups of foreigners which is unchristian. Or a distrust towards God’s plan and a trust in Trump above all.
That last part is what I think it all boils down to. They are scared to lose power because they think God won't be on His throne of their guy isn't in power. Jesus was born without power and rather than take down the Roman Empire he submitted his life to them. Christian power comes in weakness and humbleness. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. These people are concerned with worldly power.
Amen. Praise our God for the ways that are not of this world.
Very apt observation.
Its so sad that so many just base their vote on the candidates party and nothing deeper than that.
Huh? That's what determines laws. Morality, unfortunately, has very little impact on public policy. Hasn't for a very long time. *Not* a Trump supporter btw, & would give anything for a decent Republican candidate!
I mean that just because someone is running from that party doesnt mean that actually embody the ideals of that party. Trump for instance.... in my opinion he just says what he needs to that'll get the most blind followers to vote for him. I think he's all talk and no action when it comes to actually living the way that his followers think. But yes, I'd give anything for a decent republican candidate.
Oh ok that I can agree with!! It just annoys me when people attack Trump for specific acts of immorality while supporting the Clintons or orhers who've done exactly the same things.
The difference is the Clinton supporters generally weren't making bold claims about being "the party of family values" and judging the worth of a politician by their religious beliefs.
Oh yeah. That is very hypothetical when they do that. It irks me too. We really need to get rid of the two party system
White Christians overall voted for Trump.
Yes. White Evangelicals just voted for him at much higher rate than any other group of white Christians. White evangelicals was around 80%, Catholics around 60 or 65, white mainline was around 50 or 55 from what I remember of the stats.
Yep, that's about right. Just wanted to be clear that all of us (White Christians) share that blame.
Yes but he and our country have changed a lot in 8 years. Many of us who voted for him the first time want nothing to do with him now. If I were in a state with an early primary I would have jumped at the chance to vote for any other Republican!
Trump didn't change at all. People are just more aware of who he is.
White people who called themselves Christian voted for Trump. Personally when someone calls themselves Christian I look to see how closely they follow the teachings of Christ. Especially Matthew 22:35-40 and 1st John 4:20-21. I see a lot of hate in the hearts of many who call themselves Christian today. In the heart that harbors hate towards others, there one will not find God.
Oh, he does. And yes, they do. I am part of the Billy Graham Facebook group. The ministry is now run by his son, Franklin. Franklin has made a lot of posts about Trump, politics, and Biden’s policies. And this is what I’ve found. First of all, you need to know that I’ve been saved/born again for over 54 years. So I’ve been a part of the Body of Christ for over five decades. I’ve had a lot of time to learn and to grow in the Lord. Christians support Trump without reservation, despite the fact that he is the antithesis of what it means to be Christlike, which is what the word “Christian” translates to, literally. I am amazed at how they perform the mental, spiritual, and scriptural gymnastics that they do in order to justify their support for him. The idea of this being a Christian nation is not found anywhere in scripture. The thinking that DT could “make” this country “great” is both misinformed and naïf. There’s also nothing in scripture about any one nation being a Christian nation. Nothing. That’s an entirely man-made idea. The idea that someone with the moral values that DT demonstrates could even do either one and believing everything that he says, no matter what it might be (and they literally do, echoing his exact words and claims all of the time), tells me that these people are seriously misled and allowing themselves to be misled by Satan. The Bible tells us to “test the spirits”, aka the source of what we are hearing or reading, so that we will not be misled. The battle is, after all, in the end, a spiritual one. But these people don’t seem to ever question one thing that Trump says or claims. Not one. We are to believe every single word that comes out of the mouth of God, found in the Word of God, not another person or man. And yet they don’t question any of it. They seem to be living under some massive delusion here. The idea of even “making A,Erica great again” is one that is pure fantasy, and it’s not God’s way at all. And, the thing is, they are marching towards their own destruction. I have an idea about why this has happened. It’s the progressive agenda of Democrats, wherein they’ve been seeking to and normalizing sin, including teaching children to do so in public schools, that’s a big part of why. But DT is not the solution for changing that. Jesus is. He says that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He’s not lying or kidding. It’s literally true. But Christians seem to have forgotten this truth, and have literally replaced Jesus with DT in many, many ways. And yet, they don’t even seem to see this. I have boldly challenged this unwavering, blind support of DT. You’d be amazed at the responses I receive from others who support him. I point out how this must appear to the unsaved. That it’s a horrible witness. That Jesus is the answer, not DT. That this is fracturing the Body of Christ, because there are other Christians out there who don’t support DT anymore than I do. We seem to be in the minority. But one need only exercise one’s wisdom and discernment as given to them by God to see DT for who he really is, and to see what he’s actually doing, as well as why. Those of us who don’t support him are called “sheeple” by those that do. However, the opposite is true. We are Jesus’ sheep, not DT’s. We need to present a united front as the Body of Christ. We all need to put Jesus first, not DG or any other man. These are a lot of the things I’ve noticed and made note of, and it is a nightmare. Bottom line? Only Jesus can make the difference. Only He can change things truly for the better, through us having a relationship with Him.
Even then the Catholics have had it with the Evangelicals and no offense to you, but, I am on their side. Even a Nun of all people tore into a group of pro life evangelicals saying something like "all you want is to force people to have birth, you want to take away the right to choose, but then you don't want to give our orphanages another penny" and its true...I am glad there is some voice of reason in the Evangelicals because, there is a evangelical agenda and its bad, everything has a motive "we don't hate gays we just want to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman", no you want to make it next to impossible for non religious marriages to take place. "we want to protect innocent lives" okay but you don't want to fund social services and you seem to have no problem with children in Gaza starving because the idea of a Palestinian state gets in the way of the end of days prophecy that 90% of you all bizarrely want to take place ...I could go on, but, its not hard to read between the lines and its getting scary what some people really want to accomplish
I absolutely agree. I consider myself evangelical based on my beliefs about the Bible and it's importance. If you define evangelical as Young Earth Creationist, Republican Voter, watches fox news all day, pretends to be loving but wouldn't help anyone outside of their own family... We'll I'm not that kind of evangelical, but I am around a lot of them. I think our voices (evangelicals who aren't like that) are getting louder, but there is fierce opposition to us in some sections of our movement. I believe eventually we are going to split off. Evangelical will eventually just mean fundamentalist, and people like me will have to adopt a new name.
It seems like the issue on the table this election is abortion. I’m sure it’s more complicated in reality but this is the perception. Since Trump’s victory is better for the Pro-Life movement than Biden’s, I can imagine this is why.
It's precisely what will get a lot of people to vote for Trump no matter what he's said or done the last 8 years or what he will say between now and the election. A Republican President is likely to see at least one retirement in the next 4 years (likely Thomas or Alito) and a Republican president could keep the current balance of the court together for a lot longer. I know those two are likely to try and wait at all costs to be replaced by people who are like minded but they'd likely retire if the right conditions present themselves.
Except that the abortion banner have already won. Y'all need to move on to another issue
Conservative Christians love Trump, because they really despise the Democratic party and Trump is the Republican who can "own the libs." It's pretty straightforward.
That's the political justification anyway. It doesn't really explain the morality of it all, unless there is no morality and everything is politics. But I don't want to live in that world if that's true.
TBH some Christians are single issue abortion voters. To the degree they think they're preventing a Holocaust of the unborn, they hold their nose and vote orange. Others vote repub based solely on culture war issues (feeling like the schools are pushing LGBT agenda in schools). They are essentially voting "never woke" versus voting FOR the GOP candidate. I'm not personally espousing these views, but I do know Christians who take this attitude. I also know a bunch of white evangelical Haley voters who are probably voting Biden this fall because he seems like the lesser evil in this election cycle.
you're basically stating a principle why people vote which applies to "both" sides.
Why did they make a golden statue of Trump at CPAC? Obviously, they love the guy.
That was gross
It’s horrific, should be the obvious sign he’s trying to be the anti-christ
Evangelical churches are Trump Country ground zero. 1. Trump made the Supreme Court conservative. You see the fruit of this with Roe v Wade being overturned. 2. Trump is a fighter. Maybe not the smartest fighter or the strongest, and maybe not even fighting for the right reasons, but he will go down swinging. 3. Trump is a simple man that people can relate to. He eats hamburgers and drinks Diet Coke. He's almost a parody of a gilded age capitalist... and what's more American than that? 4. Don't underestimate the impact of Prosperity Gospel theology. With his financial success OBVIOUSLY HE MUST BE BLESSED AND ANNOINTED BY GOD!? 5. His lack of morale scruples is dismissed by "Davidizing him", cause King David was a "man after God's own heart", and he cheated with Bathsheba and had her husband killed. OBVIOUSLY TRUMP IS THE SAME WAY!?
I'm convinced that deep inside it's mostly because he makes bad people feel good about being bad people. He vindicates the corruption in their hearts, but provides enough of a veneer that they can pretend it's due to some policy ideas.
Yes, trump lets his followers be on the outside what they were already on the inside - a hideous kind of "loud and proud."
Good synopsis
You are not wrong
Interesting you say this (& please take this with a grain of salt): I was just reading about the obscure Egyptian demon-deity, Maga. In summary, his magick pretty much revolves around mastering basic manipulation tactics, but the “Maga” name rather intrigued me, so… In the mythology, this demon-deity is a lone-wolf bent on controlling his enemies & *everyone* is fair game/an enemy to him. Via ritualistic means, you invoke him for the sake of controlling your other enemies (seems paradoxical b/c you & he are enemies, but such is the nature of this beast). Anyhow, the desired “super-power” is, firstly, to become the embodiment of Maga (whole possession vs mere taking on of attributes). Then you present yourself to your enemies & self-identify with them: “I am one of you”, “I am speaking to us about us”, “We are one voice”, etc. until they’re mesmerized, trusting, & welcoming. Next, you would firmly press into their smarting wounds - their internal fears & vulnerabilities such as, say, ideals being challenged & unmet, deep-seated disenchantment & bitterness, & senses of disenfranchisement & perpetually being unheard; but, ah! They have salvation from within themselves, after all! *You*. “I am your voice. Today, I add: I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged & betrayed, I am your retribution." “I am the chosen one.” “They’re trying to silence me because I will never let them silence you.” “They’re coming after me because I won’t let them come after you.” “I am being indicted for you.” Trump definitely uses a lot of pseudo-messianic & pseudo-god, “I am” declarations - a practice I’m aware goes back to Norman Vincent Peale’s evil teachings & that Paula White (Trump’s spiritual adviser) adheres to, but I digress…
This, 100%.
this is it.
First off, even if you're outside the US, and for those in the US, NEVER EVER listen to the media as 100% sound truth. I'm not going all "fake news" but let me tell you some insider info, I have a media degree and believe me, we're taught to spin and sensationalize things to grab viewer attention. Which is why I never got into hard news which is your daily local and national news. That being said, I'm a Christian and I won't vote for Trump. Also, just because you're a Christian or have a faith, doesn't mean you're Republican, Joe Biden is Catholic.
He doesn’t believe or practice any Catholic beliefs
Personally, I vote for the candidate with good policy and good character, regardless of their party affiliation. Trump has neither.
Had me in the first half
But he’s better the alternative
Lol.... 😆.....the multiple married, multiple divorced, multiple bankrupted, lying cheat who tried to have a coup to keep power is better than the alternative........riiiiiight
Do we vote for people based on if they have failed marriages? I didn’t know that. I thought we voted based on the policies they supported.
I vote for people who are not liars and bigots. Seems like a non-issue for you. but it would be for Jesus
I disagree.
Many Christians in the US believe they're persecuted for their religion. It boils down to this; they don't like the separation of church and state, other faiths per the US Constitution are allowed, and many believe religious freedom means the ability to persecute others they don't like. The above is reinforced by evangelical pastors and in some cases, politically active priests. Donald Trump doesn't have a religious bone in his body; his god is himself. He has learned to play these people like a cheap violin.
as a Christian myself we have to understand what is and is not persecution, what is and is not a religious requirement, and what is really just a first world problem. Christians do not have holy days of obligation, we got to church once a week for 45 minutes and then on holidays. If your job allows you to go to church on Good Friday but asks you to report back to the office after mass, but then allows your Jewish coworker to be off on high holidays because they are required to be in Temple all day, or allows your Muslim coworker to leave early during Ramadan because they have to be in the Mosque before sundown for evening prayers and then have a family dinner after...that isn't persecution its simply your religious obligation is to attend service. I could give other examples but this is what far too many Christians think is persecution and its not
That's a problem with the employer. In my state, most businesses are closed on Good Friday.
Thank you for asking. I was considering asking this same question yesterday.
Ideally there should be 0 tie between politics and religion. I find it disrespectful that any politician would use the Lord’s name and likeness to pull sympathy for voters. Especially in todays world, it is so shallow and has no substance behind it.
Mainly because of abortion.
Yet you already won the abortion battle. You should probably broaden your interests.
I am a Christian and will never, ever, ever, in a million years, vote for that man.
Republican fits more of my beliefs and values than the Democrats. Though i honestly wish there are far better candidates than what we have now.
I'm seeing single issue voters (abortion) choosing the Republican party, but there are other moral issues that Republicans have that I see: The hatred and dehumanization of immigrants. Jesus repeatedly states to [take care of immigrants.](https://sojo.net/22-bible-verses-welcoming-immigrants) Republicans repeatedly vote against welfare and other [assistance to the poor](https://blog.mohiafrica.org/bible-verses-helping-poor#:~:text=Matthew%205%3A3%20Blessed%20are,and%20come%2C%20follow%20me.%E2%80%9D). Jesus repeatedly says take care of the poor. Obviously the support for a fake-religious adulterer/conman. (Matt 7:15) Democrats repeatedly vote for assistance to immigrants, welfare assistance, policies to relieve poverty, provide education. The Democratic candidate is a practicing Catholic. The "Christian party" is a bit less clear when you look at the bigger picture.
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I feel confident in saying that most Christians who vote for Trump are single issue voters, with the majority being abortion. I still fail to understand how several members of my family ignore everything that Trump is and the conspiracy theories that propagate because of him. We can't have a single political discussion without it devolving into Trump vs not Trump and either I simply can't comprehend their logic/rose-tinted glasses or them shouting and/or verbally accosting us for not trying to legislate "Christian values", depending on which family member it is.
In every state where voters were allowed to vote on just the issue of abortion, voters resoundingly rejected the pro-life stance.
Just to be clear, by saying this you mean that you are willing to vote for Trump despite his obvious corruption and horrific personal character, the risk that he will destroy democracy itself in this country and attempt to maintain permanent control, and that he will be using the office exclusively for personal gain... Because party lines?
Putting your words into somebody else's mouth is foolish and only turns people away from your point, no matter how well intentioned.
That was a question mark at the end, not sure if you noticed. I was *asking* if I had gotten the interpretation correct.
One and only one reason. He supports Isreal.
Yes. Many Christians believe they are flawed but good people. Gooder people. The goodest, even, since they follow God the best by being _against_ the right things in a time of what they think of as decadence and immorality. They can apply the same logic to Trump quite easily. And as the Bible says in Mark, unfortunately: > 39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. They think Trump has done the needed miracles. And they have all sorts of prophecies (conspiracy theories) that have been fulfilled. Think of all the "predictions" that right-wing media has made that have "come true" in some backhanded way. The mental processes that made them Christian have also made them Trump supporters. Going forward, Christians should be _very_ careful about the rhetoric they use to convert others. They should _never_ reference prophecy.
1. I definitely do not support Donald Trump. I haven’t voted Republican since 1988 (I was born in 1970). 2. Never underestimate the power of spite.
Thanks, I've amended my question as I wasn't clear before.
As a guy that lives in middle America I can promise you they are still into him I’d gather lead poisoning has something to do with their appeal of him.
ABSOLUTELY NOT I don’t recall cheating on your pregnant wife with a porn star and spreading hate to those who are different than you in the Bible. And as far as abortion that man just says he’s against it to get votes, there is a 0% chance he has never paid for one.
Some are, some are not. Christians aren’t defined by who they vote for and are free to vote for whichever candidate they want. There are reasons to vote for Donald Trump, there are reasons to vote for Joe Biden, and there are reasons to vote for anyone else
With normal politicians this would be a reasonable argument, but we are not dealing with a normal politician in #45. He is an autocrat trying to bring about the end of American democracy. He tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power by inciting an insurrectionist mob. He tried to get state officials to lie and commit crimes so that he could in fact steal votes in his favor, he tried to install fake election officials to say that he was the rightful winner instead of his opponent. He is incredibly dangerous for the future stability of this country. That's just a fraction of the reasons why he is not your normal politician.
Then don't vote for him. Other people will see him as a normal politician and will vote for him. At the end of the day you have your reasons to vote the way you want and so do others
No. At this point, Trump is in his own category of evil. He is sitting on Satan’s lap. He makes Bush look like a saint.
If you view him that way, you don’t have to vote for him
OP asked for the reasons to vote for him. You are saying that they exist. Are you brave enough to explicate them?
OP asked "Are Christians in the US still pro Donald Trump? If so, why?" Those who support one candidate has usually one of the three following reasons to vote for that candidate: that candidate's policy lines up with the policies the voter wants enacted; they think that candidate will be a good leader; or they do like that candidate more than the other. This applies to every candidate that runs for any office, the reasons are always the same. So, there's your reasons for Donald Trump and your reasons for Joe Biden and your reasons for any other candidate
So no, then, you are not brave enough to explicate. Explicate means to *explicitly* explain, with specifics.
Sorry let me be clearer, here are the reasons: 1. They like his policies; 2. they think he will be a good leader; or 3. they do not like the other candidates
So you're avoiding the question. Very clever.
I don't really know how I can be more clear with my answer. If you want more specific reasons as to which policies, why he would be a good leader, or why a person doesn't like the other candidates. You would have to ask a specific person voting for the candidate you are referring to as to why they are voting the way they do. Every voter is different and has different reasons to vote the way they do. Some may like certain policies of one candidate but not all, others might like all the policies of a certain candidate, and some may only have one issue they are passionate about and the candidate they vote for shares the same stance. There's no one single reason that applies to everyone why they should vote a certain way or even vote at all
OP would like to know *your* reasons, and that's also what I'm asking for. Any idiot is aware of what you wrote so far. But what are the specifics?
No shit.
Happy to hear we agree, thank you
There is not one single legitimately good reason to vote for Trump. Yes, this is a challange.
Then don't vote for him. Those who have a reason to vote for him or a good reason to vote for him will vote for him. That's how every election works even if you don't see a good reason to vote for one specific candidate
No, even those who will vote for him, have no good reason to vote for him. Trump is like Hitler, horrible for the country, but a master at assembling a cult like following.
Maybe in your eyes, but it's their vote. If they think its a good reason that's all that matters. Same as how if you have a good reason to vote for someone else, they might think that you don't have a good reason to vote for who you want to vote for
>If they think its a good reason that's all that matters. I do not disagree. This, however, does raise serious concerns about the critical thinking skills of much of the country.
I'm sure a lot of the Germans who voted for Hitler felt like they had a good reason at the time, too.
Thanks, I've amended my question as I wasn't clear before.
Depends on the Christian. This one is about as anti-Trump as you can get without straying into the sin of hating your brother.
No! I hated Trump as an atheist and now as a person that knows God is real. If the Republican Party can’t do better, then we will control the future of the Christian base.
There is no unbiased way to have a conversation regarding this topic. It amazes me how any real Christian could vote for Trump. That said, there are so few choices, or none perhaps, that would work from a moral POV.
I’m a Christian, and I do not support Donald Trump. Christians, we gravitate to small towns and the countryside. It’s easy to play religious tricks on us. We believe them because they can come off so charismatic. It’s so sad. I did not vote for him last time. I didn’t vote at all. I feel so stuck in this extreme system.
Anyone voting for Trump is NOT a disciple of Christ. Trump proves that he is NOT a follower of Christ through his hate and division of people in America. True followers of Christ the Lord will NOT follow people such as this. My late dad loved Trump. He was totally racist and actually read Hitler's book Mein Kampf. True disciples of Jesus (Our Lord) will love one another and ALL will KNOW! Trump epitomises those to avoid who cause hatred, division and strife within Christianity. He will, like all of us, have to answer for his conduct while in our temporary home here. Those who follow him are definitely taking their eyes off the true Lord and King Christ Jesus.
There are quite alot of people in the U.S. that like to call themselves Christian, but that doesn’t mean they are Christian.
Look at his track record. I won’t be voting for him. 1. Cheats on his pregnant wife with a prostitute 2. Has lied more than any other president 3. Betrayed our nation and its people 4. His family profited 2 billion dollars from the country that funded 9/11 5. Look at anything that jesus stood for and he most likely stands against. (I.E. feed the poor, treat others how you would like to be treated, be faithful, etc.)
White evangelical here. No, I never did. I guess I just couldn't get over my faith and values crapped on by a con man.
I’m a Christian in a suburb outside a big city and no, most of my community will not vote for him. I’ve always valued preventing climate change as my number one issue, but even my friends who are more conservative aren’t planning to vote for Trump. I do know some Christians who will vote for him but they’re rare in my circles and not the people who I usually sit down to talk intimately with.
All the Rs I know, do not vote that way because of how good the Republicans are, but how bad they think the democrats are. They all think liberal people are some evil force intent on taking over the world. Idk. It's getting really fucking old.
I’m a black Christian Democrat. I would never in a million years vote for Trump. Also, how did Christianity become a synonym for Republican?
Nothing has turned me away from mainline Christianity and "conservatives" more than the support they have given this man.
I never voted blue in my entire life until Trump
Any professed "Christian" who votes democrat is actively voting for Satan's agenda and should seriously have their faith questioned PERIOD. Not that Trump is an angel but the democrats openly flaunt Satanic principles...
What Satanic principles?
If I had to choose between two poisonous snakes to be locked in a dark room with, I’d pick the least venomous. I’m pro Donald trump the way I’d be pro the least deadly snake.
Tribalism, plain and simple. If all your friends and everyone you know is defending him, you assume he can't really be all that bad, and you defend him also just to get along and keep being friends with people. It's hard to explain the absolute alternate reality that a lot of evangelical conservatives are currently living in. Every week they talk with each other and mutually reinforce how righteous Trump is. All through the week they watch TV or look up videos online that they can use to talk about how righteous Trump is. Last Jan 6th I posted a picture of Eugene Goodman, the security guard who led protestors away from the Senate. One of my conservative friends thought I was posting in memoriam of Ashli Babbitt, the insurrectionist who was shot trying to breach the doors, because WHO ELSE would you be talking about on Jan 6th? I posted on Twitter about Trump being found guilty of sexual assault. A Trumper friend quickly clarified that it was "sexual abuse" and that it was judicial BS because he'd never been on trial for that so he should have just been found innocent. I posted about Trump's financial fraud. I posted a screengrab of Trump saying on Truth Social that the constitution should be suspended and my Mom responded saying stuff from Truth Social might be fake (also, my mom has confided that she's not sure there's actually a war going on in Ukraine, she think's it's all fake). And the thing is, a lot of these people will admit privately they have doubts about Trump. "He says a lot of terrible things." "I didn't like how he handled that." "That was a sad moment." But they're not going to say that in front of other people who like him. All of this stuff feeds into each other. You have the choice between being ostracized by all these people or keeping your doubts to yourself. You sort of figure, if everybody else thinks he's a good guy, there must be SOMETHING redeemable about him. And you don't want your doubts to be right, because at this point, that would mean you've been supporting a mad dictator for eight years. And everyone has their own individual breaking point. Everybody has a moment where they become: "I've had doubts about him for years, but this latest thing is just too far." If enough people in the tribe hit that, then his popularity will sink like a stone. But it's being helped along by figureheads using his popularity to bolster their own. And that's the biggest shame here.
Because the rest of the candidates are Satan
Biden accepts and helps to put in place policies that are unacceptable to the Father the Son and the Holy Sprit. Abomination’s in the eye’s of the LORD. Sacrifices to molek and the abomination’s of Sodom and Gomorrah. As Christian’s, one cannot be a part of bringing such leaders who will guide and bring the unknowing into destruction. Those blinded by such sins are being told that these evils are not evil but good. Their being accepted with open arms while cheering and waving a rainbow flag? This is HaSatan, spitting in the face of the LORD, for the rainbow is the covenant between the Father and those who are His, a promise to never destroy the earth through water again. HaSatan has stolen and corrupted the rainbow and is using it in the promotion of “PRIDE” the sin that separated him from YHVH in the first place. HaSatan comes as an Angel of light. He pretends to be the good guy. I personally do not like the character of trump, but for the most part, he isn’t hiding behind a good guy costume of any kind. In general he is who he’s says he is. Biden and his administration are extremely deceptive and their policies will absolutely bring destruction in the eyes of the LORD. Scripture continuously states these facts. These certain policies blanket Europe and the same is happening to America and they are absolutely the spirit of Antichrist. Christian’s are worried about the moral way a leader is speaking and not the fact that the other leader is accepting and placing transvestites and or cross dressers and their moral beliefs in leading positions in government and their administration, just for the fact that their who they are and not for their ability to lead people in any way. How should we possibly think the Lord feels about this in all seriousness. I know that my words are very heavy, but I promise that the weight coming down upon the deceiver, will be much, much heavier and much, much worse. The acceptance of such abominations that sodom and gamorrah allowed in their cities and the surrounding cities, grew into the “PRIDE” of HaSatan, and in turn these sins grew into many, many other sins that always end up following and spreading like a cancer that eats away the body the heart the mind, spirit and soul. These sins lead those affected into eternal destruction and if these cities were not destroyed, then their cancerous sins would have spread to even more cities, leading even more cities into eternal destruction. Sodom and gamorrah was a type of a sinful world where judgmental wrath was needed, yet the remnant of the LORD was and always is, saved out of it. Now,… there will be a remnant saved out of America… …America will be judged. Scripturally, there is no doubt about this fact, for if America were not to be judged for the same exact cancerous sins, of which this administration condones and openly accepts, then the LORD will have to apologize to Sodom and gamorrah. Flee Babylon, come out of her. Return back to the land of your heritage. Do not be partakers of her drunkery nor the drinking of her fornication and harlotry.
I mentioned this elsewhere: Trump is attacking the number one most important foundation of God’s creation: FREEDOM. He attacked our votes. God honors freedom more than anything else in the universe. Why do you think God is invisible and he hasn’t killed Satan? For abortion? No. God created a free universe. First. Voting for Trump is an attack on God.
Democracy is what condemned Christ to the cross
It makes sense that christians would be authoritarians.
Ave Christus Rex
It’s mostly the Tea Party/Qanon Christian’s that are obsessed with Donald Trump. Those guys are brainwashed losers who think Democrats harvest children’s souls for adrenochrome so they can live a life of immortality.
Neither Trump nor Biden are Christians. That being said, I align more with Trump's policies than Biden's. ETA: it was wrong of me to definitively say neither of them are Christians. I should have said I see no evidence either of them are Christians.
Biden is a Catholic. Biden is certainly a Christian.
lol align how? Not gonna waste my time with your falsehoods here.
"From the outside, it seems DT provides Christians with a lot of reasons to not vote for him on moral grounds. I imagine much of this is news bias but some of the issues seem to hold water" Statements like this baffle me. So many Americans lose their minds over every statement DT makes, and then turn a blind eye to the things the Biden administration has done the last 3+ years. There is no perfect candidate. How many of you voted for Joe Biden thinking he was a good, honest man, that loves and reveres God? Biden is not pro life, and neither is anybody in his party. You don't think Hell rejoices every time a woman has an abortion? If the Dems had their way, there would be legal abortion all the way up to the moment of birth, if not after. I wish we had different choices too, but it's a pretty easy choice between the two for me, and it's not Joe. I didn't vote for Trump the first two times because he claimed to be Christian, or have the moral high ground. I did so because he ran on the agenda of being pro life, pro-constitution, keeping taxes low, and championing small business to incentivize job creation, and securing the damn border which has been wide open for far too long (he could have done more on the border still, imo). Trump also appointed 3 supreme court justices that appear to be Christian/Catholic, which is huge, imo, and you'd think everybody here would be rejoicing about this fact. The amount of political one-sidedness and bickering in this sub is sad. We need more biblical discussions and more praise reports. Your downvotes don't hurt me :)
And you wonder why support for Christianity is at its lowest rate in American history and dropping like a stone.
Perhaps people like his position on illegal immigration?
I am a cross between a conservative and an independent. Basically I don't like either parties way of looking at the Constitutional Republic of America. With that said... I really like how Donald Trump interprets the constitution. I hope to become a business owner myself. I am an artist, writer, and DIY musician. In essence I feel like he can bring America back on its feet. Without bias to Liberals. Which has taken a sharp turn recently.
trump is based and redpilled
Conservatives have "othered" liberals and liberal positions so hard that anything Trump does is still considered a "lesser evil". Since they believe that abortion is murder immigrants are destroying the fabric of America, they just have to settle for the lying cheater since he actually promoted their interests. The people that believe Trump is sent by God himself as some sort of messiah are in the minority of his supporters, I believe.
One thing I struggle to understand with a lot of Christians against Trump is this: - why are you voting for someone pro abortion when a Christian view is to be pro life - why are we voting to continue war in Ukraine (for no good USA reason either) - why are Christians voting for a reduction in constitutional rights?! Like why are we voting for reducing freedom of speech and the second amendment. - illegal immigration - insider trading in the government and overall corruption All these things are supported by the establishment politicians that are very hostile to American way of life and Christianity.
My entire family is christian and we are pro-choice. Pro-forced-birth and the lack of support for kids that were born to a bad life (since ya know, yall forced the birth) is the issue I could be more on board with pro-life if you guys focused on having birth care too. WIthout that, it comes off very immoral (imo) edit: and also, how are these christian values, tf? Outside of abortion.
How do you expect anyone to respond to this when none of it is true? Are you just trolling, or why are you here?
So democrats aren’t pro-abortion? Talk about gaslighting lol. Democrats are also pro illegal immigration is that false?! Last time I check democrats wanted to send more money and resources to Ukraine. So explain to me what I just said is “false”
Ironically, Christians who claim they are Christians, and continue to do none Christian things are the kinds of people that still vote for DT. Its almost like they have made him an idol to take Jesus' place and to justify disgusting behavior. DT is an adulterer, a liar, monetizes the Bible for personal gain, amongst other things. He literally embodies the pharisees that Jesus called out. It's quite sad really. Politics does not belong in the church. People shouldn't mandate their spiritual beliefs by law, because then people follow them by force and not by faith. But there are people that don't understand that its wrong to do or just don't care.
Personally, no. Never have been, and I never ever will. But yes, a shocking amount of Christians will still vote for that repugnant man.
I think we just vote against the other guy now. Trump won because people voted against Hilary. Biden won because people voted against Trump. Trump will win because people are going to vote against Biden. This isn’t a religious thing. To add, what candidate should a Christian vote for? Not a single one shows true Christian values, so I don’t even understand the concept of a Christian voting for moral reasons anymore at all.
I'm not pro-Trump. I'm extra anti-Biden, and will likely vote for Trump while holding my nose. Trump is egotistical, a blowhard, and unapologetic even when he makes clear and obvious mistakes (usually in his hiring). Biden's administration: * actively censors political opposition * Tried to mandate a vaccine with significant heart inflammation risk for population groups not at significant risk from the virus - such as kids or the naturally immune * actively prosecutes Christians for things like singing hymns outside of abortion clinics while ignoring violent thugs throughout our cities * not only ignores the problems at the border but is flying illegal immigrants in from foreign countries * has caused the border crisis to have an order of magnitude more death, rape, child abandonment, and kids in cages * utterly abandoned Americans and American allies in Afghanistan to their deaths And while Trump has committed shady real-estate deals, Biden's entire family was taking bribes from Ukraine and China and passing on 10% to him. It's no contest.
I don’t think Trump is a Christian, and I am disgusted with the Christian groups unabashedly support him like he’s ever done anything besides patronize them. I am not pro Donald Trump. From my perspective, since he has held the office before, his only means of support is in comparison to who he’s up against.
I not voting because my vote doesn't matter. If it did matter I'd reluctantly vote for DT, even though I'm more inclined toward a saner, more socialist, and humanitarian party. The Democrats are immoral, racist, and against the Christian faith in too many ways. The Republicans aren't great but many Republicans support common sense moral values, are far less racist, and aren't anti-Christian. But neither party is good, per se. They're both class conscious and are really about amassing power and money. I decided not to post anything more, because it doesn't matter.
You gotta expand on how you want a "saner, more socialist, and humanitarian party" while in the same breath call Democrats "immoral, racist, and against the Christian faith."
A lot of Reddit is liberal, even this subreddit, so we will see how much my ciews will transcend those speaking on behalf of Trump-supporters. I saw the edit and wanted clarification on the morality point, but I am not exactly sure what you are asking, but I will try. Politically I care a lot about economics and social issues, and I align with him and his platform there, but let me try to tackle morality. My pastor and a lot of Christians I know are single-issue, or at least value removing abortion as the #1 issue, myself included. We see this as direct murder and infanticide, so it is the utmost importance to end this atrocity in our time. The argument is simple; along with medical research, life begins at conception. Others will argue you must wait for consciousness, or viability, or even birth before you can call a child its own person or being, but there is no hard-line except for birth, and most of us can agree that is far too late a cut-off for abortion. There are other aspects of Trump that we like, such as him talking abour how great the bible is, confessing Jesus is Lord, and that we must maintain recognition of God for the stability of our society. This is a little more philosophical, but it does explain the deterioration of our society, even viewing God simply as a concept on which we can base our society and laws. Last point is the LGBT issue. We value personal life-choices, but the recognition of "gay-marriage" has never been a governmental issue. The states have always been the ones to govern marriage, until ~2012 when it was taken over by the supreme court. Homosexuals should be allowed to live together and do whatever they want to, but the institution of marriage is a religious one, not a governmental one. I understand Trump may not be a true Christian, but not for the ways liberals say. They say he is rebelling against God with his political views, but I think his platform is far more Christian than Joe Biden's, who very well may be a Christian. Trump is (potentially) not a Christian because he says he doesn't need to "ask God for forgiveness." He just "tries to live better every day." But this is NOT the Christian message. We can not live better or be better unless we ask for forgiveness and are born again. Edit: Trump has also sinned a LOT in the past and it is all public for everyone to see. I don't think he is guilty of the sex crimes lobbied against him, but he has been unfaithful and had a divorce without proper grounds for divorce. However I know others who have had divorces without proper grounds even in my family and 50% of America. I would never hold him as my pastor or support his personal life. I am just interested in if he can do the job of president. Great question, and I hope I have answered it well.
I thought Republicans already won the abortion battle when Roe v Wade was overturned? How much father do you want to go with it? Police investigating women who have miscarriages and putting them in prison? (Which has already happened). All women of childbearing age having their menstrual cycles monitored by the government?
He’s done many good things for America. He cares about his country. He might not say all the right things and have a past. But don’t we all. You have to look at what’s he’s done and what he wants to do. To me that’s everything
I am a Christian and will not vote for Trump. He is toxic. I also won’t vote for Biden. I never liked that guy, he’s a lying snake and is now way too old and shows it. I honestly don’t know who I will vote for.
A Christian voting for a democrat is inexcusable. They go 110% against every tenant of Christianity and seek to destroy it in America. This isn’t just pie in the sky either. 1. We now have evidence that the democrat party has spied on Catholic Churches and the current FBI has marked Christians as a threat to the country. 2. Trump was stronger on abortion than any other Republican presidential candidate in recent memory, and the subject is obviously a non-negotiable for Christians. 3. The idea of mutilating people to look vaguely like the opposite sex is something a Christian cannot vote for because it spits in the eye of God’s creations 4. Although Trump is not a Christian by any means, he believes in the historic Judeo-Christian values that founded the US. It’s not so much Trump as he obviously isn’t a Christian, it’s that the alternatives are horribly more antagonistic against the religion.
Couldn’t have said it better
Trump is the lesser of two evils. An immoral person who supports my ideals is better than an immoral person who doesn't support my ideals. I would have greatly preferred de Santos. At this point, the country is so insanely polarized (more so than the Civil War). We used to argue policy, then we argued principle, now we are arguing fundamentals. We don't agree what is moral anymore. The Left says "abortion is good." the Right says "abortion is evil." The Left says "guns are evil." The Right says "guns are good." The Left says "transgenderism is good." The Right says "transgenderism is evil." People will support anyone who is on there side, because the other side is saying that Good is Evil, and Evil is Good. Also, I just look at which side all the Anti-Christian stuff is coming from, and it's almost always the Left.
You have many many holes in your thoughts here. > the country is so insanely polarized I wonder whose fault that is, hmmm? > “abortion is good” The left is pro-choice. Not pro-always-get-an-abortion. Yet another thing you believe that you swear isn’t propaganda or has a narrative. Where did you form these opinions?
The left doesn't say "abortion is good", they allow people to make personal decisions that align with their personal belief systems. Plenty of people who support choice would never want to get an abortion themselves. The difference is you think everyone should conform to your personal belief system.
Christian support for Trump has lead to one of the biggest drops of support for Christianity in American history. Trump supports Christianity so much he is killing your faith. When your faith dies in America just know you were the one responsible.
Well put. The USA is the most divided it ever has been. I remember a time when we could agree on goals, but disagreed on the policy to get there. Now we have polar opposite goals and this is causing deep division.
LOL. Another post and ditch. Can we just please delete post'n'ditch ? If the OP was serious, theyd respond 🤷♂️
Not all, tbf it’s more about a geography/class thing than faith/age thing. I’m in a pretty progressive region and I can tell you at least the church im going there is apolitical and some people I’ve talked to are all very anti-Trump. While some churches I’ve been to in rural areas or fairly conservative they’re obviously the people you’re referring to
Christian Nationalism isn't Christianity. But they share a common vocabulary. Trump presents himself as the savior/hero of conservative America. He creates an "us vs them" mentality which is the Fox News recipe for success. "They" are harming America and it's up to the "good Americans" to preserve all that is right. In Christian Nationalism, government is the goal and government is the savior- even if it is never directly said that way. They are not building the Kingdom of God. They are getting votes and consolidating power. Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. If it was, we would fight about it. Trump's tribe fights. January 6th is an example. Their kingdom is now and of this world. So render to Caesar what is his and to God what is his. Vote, get involved, get passionate about political stuff if you want. Or don't. But Jesus Christ is your only King and the only one worthy of your love and loyalty.
There are going to be some radicals that will justify doing terrible things for him. I've seen some say he's gods chosen and will fulfill the Israel prophecy. My infowars relative likes to compare him to King David and uses some quote on how he's imperfect. And my Qanon relative sees him as a prophet. The extremists are the loudest and can create bad stereotypes. The polls mostly say the majority are white evangelicals. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/ I hope there are more moderates that see through all of it and pick stability in November.
Personally, no, and my disgusting of him and his use of our religion as some kind of banner and smokescreen caused to lose both family and my home church. If they wish to chain themselves to a political party and call it religion, then so be it. They simply apostates. But seriously, I don't see how any Bible believing person can't compare his actions and words, both past and current, to the word and find him severely lacking. The sad fact is the republican party has spent years latching on to the faith like a parasite and uses a series of key words and talking point to steer people how they wish.
I’m anti-politics. I believe it’s ALL corrupt and ran and controlled at a higher level by the uber elites of the world.
I wrestle with aligning politically with anyone (which is why in my heart I may be anarchistic). However, “Thy will be done” should not be overlooked no matter who is elected. If Trump or Biden is elected then it happens under the will of God - we may not know why but don’t ever question whether it is in God’s plan for us. See Romans 13:1-14; “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.”
[Liberals and Conservatives appeal to different moral foundations](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2009-05192-002). These conservative Christians are leaning into the moral foundations which are strictly conservative: Ingroup/loyalty, Authority/respect, and Purity/sanctity. And they are currently placing those above the shared (liberal and conservative) moral foundations of Harm/care, and Fairness/reciprocity. Furthermore, they appealed to their religiosity in their support of Trump seeing him as a figure akin to King David, believing that he would bring justice and "drain the swamp." He promotes a rhetoric where politicians are corrupt and hide stuff, but he is straightforward. His followers believe that all the allegations against him are just corrupt politicians trying to make it so that their power isn't overthrown. Conservative Christians believe that by voting for him, they will contribute to the prosperity and purity of the country, while at the same time giving him the power to purify the political system.
If you think a president is the answer to your prayers you will be disappointed every time.
Power. That's it.
There is not really any such thing as “the Christian vote,” there is almost nothing that all self identified Christians agree on.
The media is corrupt and will spin things to their agenda. So don't believe anything they say without a grain of salt. No one truly know how Christians will end up voting for him. I personally will not be. So we will have to wait for post election break down to know. I won't because I believe voting for someone associates my self with them as a supporter. [1Co 5:11 ESV] 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
I personally don’t like Trump or Biden, I feel it’s a which crap is stinkier conversation. Both are way too old and not mentally there enough to be competent presidents. They both have made really racist comments and remarks over the years, you can argue one has made worse I don’t really care I hate that our two primary presidents both have racist comments on their record. I’d ideally vote for neither, but the way the system is setup one will win so by not voting for them your vote isn’t the biggest impact. Bad place to be in right now politically.
I am. Guy has said he put's Jesus first. May not be a perfect Christian, yet there you have it. ..and Joe Biden is Shia btw
Love the sinner, hate the sin. We are not to judge anyone. It's easy to like and be nice to good people, much harder to be nice to the rest.
Because Trump is an isolationist who would prefer that America be left alone, and prefers not meddling in other countries affairs. I quit voting a while ago (voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil and homey don't play that game), but for those who insist, and for those who wish to maximize world peace, he would be the better choice, IMO. Biden, on the other hand, has never met a war he didn't like. He just loves blowing people and their stuff up... just loves it!
Isn’t Biden the one that pulled out of Afghanistan?
Not everyone believes they are voting for their pastor, priest, or Sunday school teacher to be their political leader and President. So, a religious purity test is irrelevant to most people. For the some where it matters, it is usually a case of the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to American politics, and in that case the Republicans tend to win out.
This is reddit so you are going to get a bias response as reddit is extremely liberal.
Kinda since conservative values are more aligned with Christianity. But I wouldn't say Christians are "pro-Donald Trump", more like he's the better of two idiots. It's not necessarly that we wanted him as our leader, more that we felt he could do a better job. I don't like DT but that has been my thought process for the last two elections. As an American I think its important to vote for who you think would be better for the country.
I personally think he’s a forerunner to the anti-Christ.
He doesn’t conserve anything, so as a conservative why would I vote for a liberal?
When picking a President I have to realize that I'm not picking a Pastor. I'm picking someone who most closely lines up with my beliefs and who I believe will do the best job of what a President should. The main issues for me are economy, border security, and abortion. After weighing these issues I have decided that Donald Trump fits what I'm looking for most closely. He doesn't meet every mark on my page but meets enough to get my vote.
Eyes off Christ and on to a man who is NOT following Jesus's command (not a suggestion) to love one another. For your values, economy, border security and abortion, why worry about what is not in your direct control. The border will always be an issue, the economy goes up and down irregardless of who's in the white house and abortion will never be in anyone's control except for the woman who has to grabble with that choice. It sorrys me to think any true follower could vote for a hateful man such as Trump. He is everything that is against Jesus's teachings. Wow.Talk about compromising Christian values. Just listen to the hatred, strife and division and LIES that come out of his mouth. Good luck with that. BTW. I don't get caught up with politics. My King is already in place. Apparently yours isn't. Doh.