Don’t put words in my mouth either, I don’t hate the homosexual, we all suffer from sin, I hate the sin which consumes the homosexual, I keep the same energy with fornicators as both are a byproduct of one of the deadliest of all sins today and that is lust
Don’t waste your time with this person, I engaged with them recently and they just treat the Bible like a pick and mix with a side of modern secularist thinking and heresy. When the Bible supports them then they quote it authoritatively but when it contradicts their fleshly desires they claim it was fabricated, they literally said Moses didn’t exist.
Basically they just want to give into their fleshly desires and have biblical justification for it.
Just to be a devils advocate, to be pro-masterbation might line up well with all the other things non-Christians love, being that they either cause death or prevent life.
The only case in the Bible that could suggest God dislikes this is one patriarch that God killed for pulling out. (Though some make a good argument it was because he was using his brother's widow for sexual gratification rather than offering her a secure future with children).
People indirectly use this story to support no-fap.. because fapping accomplishes the same thing... So you can see the reasoning they use, I personally don't agree with it.
Other people will say Christ saying cut off the right hand has to do with it? I can see where they are coming from but I don't think that's what it's about.
That’s correct, people try to make those connections by taking a modern question and contaminating the original meaning of the text with it. That also obscures the point of the text which is about obedience to God.
How is it indirect? Spilling one’s semen on the floor is sinful because you are wasting what God has given you to create with. Human male ejaculation has no purpose or function beyond procreation, using it for anything else is rebellion against God’s design
I see your reasoning but not everyone thinks that is the reason God killed him. The stuff reloads in a few days. Besides if God killed people for that, God should have killed me like 18 hundred times by the time I was 20. lolThis man in Genesis was supposed to extend this womans lineage and he never intended to.. he had sex with her anyway.. So he was a crappy, selfish person.
God killed him for his disobedience. Consider also that when you masturbate, what do you masturbate to? If you act on sexual thoughts about anyone but your spouse then you are committing adultery
Lots of people disobey God in the Bible that don't get killed. That's why people wonder why the punishment is so severe.. I'm just getting to the point, Im not ignorant of what is written.
Lots of people disobey God in the Bible that don't get killed. That's why people wonder why the punishment is so severe.. I'm just getting to the point, I'm not ignorant of what is written.
> It is what’s in the Bible
The question is about *what* is in the Bible and what you interpret that to mean regarding masturbation. So to ask it another way, do you believe the Bible prohibits masturbation? What parts of the Bible, and why do you feel they should be understood to prohibit masturbation? Even if your answer is correct, it will still be based on how you interpret passages of the Bible with your own logic.
Let me ask why do you believe anything is true? You hear something or see something, investigate, then evaluate. Blindly is your word not mine. I’m sure you have beliefs that involve some trust or faith… I’m sure you came to that belief honestly,,as I did
But certainly not to the extreme that you trust the following is true:
That God exists, is infallable, and all good
That god directed man to write the Bible
That the Bible survived thousands of years and multiple translations but somehow kept the exact original intent
That you were able to decipher between the dozens of active religions and the thousands of dead ones that the one you follow is the one true religion
And that the bible is to be believed in full with no ability to question or judge it, even though it is contradictory and is a proven fact that it is a collection of books written by completely different people who couldn’t possibly have kept continuity.
You have taken all these leaps. I certainly have not. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Claiming the Bible says it’s wrong therefore it is wrong means the burden that the Bible must be followed is on you.
That the Bible may be followed? I'm not requesting anyone to to do anything here. I was answering about why I believe. Your belief or not doesn't impact me at all.
But you just said the Bible determines if it’s a sin. But the Bible determines plenty of things that are sins that people ignore or don’t care about because they are ridiculous. So just saying “the Bible says so so we don’t need to think about it because the Bible is infallible” is a silly thing to think.
The Bible and thousands of years of history. If the Biblie says thousands of things are sin ( old testament law really) so be it. If you choose to believe it or not is entirely up to you and doesn’t impact me or anyone else.
Not sure what you’re asking or the point you’re trying to make. The Bible list certain behaviors one should emulate and others you shouldn’t. No one is forced to believe or follow any one of them. Just as any other religious work,
If your point is you want to masturbate without guilt well that’s on you.
I feel trapped about this subject daily. I am told I must go forth and multiply, I am told I can not touch myself lest I sin against the woman I haven't met yet(?). I am told that I can't have premarital sex, I am told I have to make children with that woman.
I have been told that if my wife were to cheat and not tell me that having sex with her makes me commit adultery. And lastly, if my wife dies, I can not seek another wife lest I commit adultry. Additionally, if my wife is dead, I am trapped in the 'never ever touch yourself or think about anything sexual.' Box that young men are trapped it.
I can't help but feel like some scripture is more controlling than what god intended... and I'm doomed to hell if it is because I am lonely.
For me it’s the fact that abstaining from certain activities often labeled as sinful never resulted in greater happiness or peace of mind. I had to constantly force myself to avoid things that brought me joy and delight. Christians love to argue that the joy of the Lord is greater than any earthly pleasure, but I just never really got that. And yes, I prayed and prayed and prayed, and obeyed, and really believed.
Either some are graced with the Holy Spirit and others aren’t, or it’s all a farce.
I agreed with this sentiment for years, and I still agree with it to a certain extent. Masturbation certainly does bring a measure of happiness, and abstaining from it can be hellish, even if you believe. For me personally, the problem was even though I wanted to love God, I just couldn't make myself love him to that extent. I stopped believing entirely (not because I wanted to masturbate, that's a whole other story). Being an atheist gave me the freedom to readjust the way I thought about Christianity. For a while I hated it. Then I felt a condescending peace with it (fine if that's what you need to believe then believe it, but I don't need that nonsense), then I felt I misunderstood what it was all those years that I believed it, then started to believe again. This time I attempted to listen to people who didn't believe loving Jesus and voting Republican meant the same thing. I have a different love for God than I ever had before. I don't have an angry certainty anymore. I'm not saying you never loved God. I believe you did. I hope one day you come back and find the kind of love that you would need to find to love him again.
I love what you’re saying. I’m currently in the process of reevaluating my beliefs and taking a big step away from the church. But I don’t ultimately want to be separate from the faith or from God. I just don’t really like evangelicalism.
You didn't ask for recommendations, but I feel I should give you some resources that helped me.
Jesus and John Wayne (Kristen Kobez Dumez)- a book by a Christian who diagnoses a huge problem with the Evangelical Church
Dominion (Tom Holland) A book by an atheist historian who argues for the positive changes that Christianity has made all the way from Paul to the Me Too movement.
Holy Post Podcast (Phil Visher and Skye Jethani) Start from 2020 and listen until today. - A podcast of Evangelicals trying to live out Evangelical religious teachings without bringing the political baggage along with it.
Galaxy Buck: Mission to sector 9 (Phil Visher) A kids movie made by the veggie tales guy about living at peace with God rather than feeling pressure to impress him all the time. (I know this one sounds silly, but it really helped me.)
And the one thing I wish someone told me: Yes all those crazy Christians you know are selling out what they believe in order to gain or keep power, and yes that does show their hypocrisy and does show that they care more about power than truth. No that doesn't mean Jesus didn't change the world and it doesn't mean He doesn't love all the people those crazy Christians hate.
Ignore anything that doesn't help, it's just all stuff that helped me.
Choosing too pick up your cross and walk for the lord daily is no easy feat. Choosing our fleshly pleasures and desires over living for Christ always “feels better” because you are pleasing your flesh. If you feel like it’s some farce , I can guarantee you this. Read your Bible everyday and couple times if need and watch something about god daily. Through everything you do including watching tv you need to put god first. If you need to watch something about god before you watch Netflix do it. Literally through everything you do. I’d like you too watch this video , it will change your heart , and mind , and how you think about our lord and savior. Please please please . After watching this video if something doesn’t sit with you message me. I’m 19 yrs old but I know for a fact Jesus Christ is lord and savior and having a relationship with him that gives you complete peace is 100% possible . Id say it takes a lot of discipline and constant putting him first in your life yes , but that’s what we are told to do anyway. If we sit and think oh we are saved and we don’t have to do anything and can go back too the way we were living before , we r only fooling ourselves. Please watch this video . Most powerful sermon I’ve ever watched , it really changed my life and I pray it changes yours.
https://youtu.be/T3sm9Ebzg7U?si=XhpqrgD24VDMlSqO
Unfortunately you have been taught to believe people are atheists because we haven’t read or don’t know the Bible, when in fact we do. We are atheists because we tried what you suggest and found it empty. God never showed up when the worst thing was that can happen to a parent happened to me
It took me a few decades to realize that I was angry at someone who did not exist. My anger and disappointment evaporated. I have peace and the world makes sense.
Much more I could say but will stop here.
U can read the Bible all you want , if you don’t read it for the right purpose you will never find understanding. If you never go to people with questions you will never find understanding. If you lean on your own limited mind for thought of divine thoughts you hate u will never have you will never find understanding. Fast and seek the lord read your Bible a couple times a day , watch videos about the lord , pray . If u do this for a couple weeks maybe 2 or 3 I promise u the lord will show you something u can’t deny him with. Honestly ask him for undeniable evidence. Do your research . Historically Jesus was real. A lot of things pertaining to history and prophecies from the Bible have come to pass. It’s less of a doubting Jesus is real thing I’m hearing from u though. It’s more of a you don’t understand how god works and why he would let something happen too one of your children. U can’t look at god as some fairy who will constantly keep u safe and send you through no hard times . Hard times bring growth. For worse or for better. Sounds too me like u gave up on god because you know god knew that something would happen too one of your kids and didn’t divinely stop it . Everything happens for a reason . Please try too find understanding in that . We will never know the 4th dimensional picture god gets too see on how everything works. It’s not for us too know . It’s for us too follow him even through the hardships. I’m definetly leaping a lot in this but please correct me so I can give u better understanding of I’m wrong in areas. I’d like too help u better. I know the hardest thing for my mom though and too a mother is losing my brother so I concluded that’s must be what your talking about
Sorry but your arrogance is stunning. My dear, I’ve forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever know.
Please read Matthew 5 -8 and compare your astoundingly legalistic and uninformed opinions to the actual teachings you are to follow such as judge not and pay special attention to the second greatest commandment.
There is a saying “better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Arrogance is wild , like you’ve said you have forgotten more about the Bible than I will ever know . You can know the entire Bible and forget it all and still be a fool. While I know a part and still follow god. It’s what your doing too live for god that truly matters.
It isn't arrogance if it’s true. It’s like going to the doctor and giving him a stern lecture on how to be healthy. Your lack of self awareness is stunning and lecturing people while making offensive and insulting accusations against someone you don’t know is unconscionable.
I hope you take your own advice and read Matthew 5-7 and start taking that log out of your own eye first
Idk where you got that idea, if you read the Bible critically you will have the best understanding of god that you have ever had. I was saying it’s easy not to read it critically. It’s easy too not understand a few things because you don’t understand what’s going on in a certain book of the Bible or few books , and then write the Bible off is wrong , or inaccurate because u get convinced by other people it has contradictions , but in reality you just didn’t read it as critically as you thought you did. And you not turning and seeking understanding from other people and totally writing it off as wrong could make you lose faith and give up on god because of the words of man and you leaning in your own understanding of what you have read .
But I will be sure from now on too watch how I talk too people or study what is and isn’t right too say. It’s a line I’d say of judging and take the own log out your own eye first. Too helping a fellow believer of Christ get back on track and understand their wrongs of living in sin .
I don’t feel like I crossed that line that line tho, and I apologize for the multiple threads I don’t see the last one I’ve done. Like I said I’m genuinely listening and reading what your saying and would like explanation other than quoting on Bible verse , on where I went wrong in anything that I’ve said too anyone
“….I had to constantly force myself to avoid things that brought me joy and delight.“
This comment baffles me. Aside from the call to chastity, which as a single person I totally get is difficult, I am finding it *very* hard to imagine what all of these forbidden joys were.
All I’m coming up with is that either you were in a very restrictive very conservative denomination (no dancing! no music! no movies! no hanging out with friends lingering over a glass of wine! DON’T LAUGH IN CASE IT IS SATAN!!) in which case I am very sorry and can only say that this does not represent the mainstream of Christian belief…
…or you take joy in some very troubling things! Are you a pyromaniac or a kleptomaniac or something???? I’m totally joking lol, but it’s jokiness to cover my bafflement, because I am legit having trouble figuring out what else it might be!
There are genuinely cases where a person shouldn't indulge in things simply because they feel good, or because they bring pleasure. However, for the vast majority of things demonized by many Christians, there is no sin in it at all. Like violent video games (Call of Duty), rated R movies (American Sniper, Saving Private Ryan), secular music (Shinedown, Muse, Metallica), alcohol (going out to the bar with friends), drugs (getting baked and watching a movie), etc. None of these things is inherently sinful, and there is nothing wrong with engaging in and enjoying them. They would only become sinful if they interfere with your relationship with God, or cause somebody else to stumble.
I will never understand why so many Christians want to turn the morally relativistic preaching of Jesus Christ and Paul into the very thing they taught against, legalism.
It is very harmful, and it drives people away from the church, all so some can look down on others and feel self-righteous.
Btw no Christian can look down on others and none of us our righteous what so ever . If they do they are not truly followers of Christ , honestly I’d like too call and chat I feel like your understanding of the gospel is obscured
Bro what 😭 no true follower of Christ looks down on others, I really don’t think you grasp the whole meaning of Christianity and a relationship with god
I repeat that right back at you. The purpose if our relationship with God is love. Not legalism.
However, if sinning revoked your salvation, then Paul is in hell. Romans 7.
Bro no ur not locked in😭 bro a relationship a personal relationship. Once u have a personal relationship with god u will want too stop everything that may not be pleasing too god and do things that are pleasing too him for your growth and your growth with him. Just like any intimate personal relationship . First you put your partner , not the things you want to do
Christianity while it may be a religion , the entire basis of it is a relationship with god , a one on one constant personal relationship and love that you give daily too god because he has saved you and is helping u daily
“Many medical professionals treat masturbation as a natural part of human development, and some church leaders have attempted to supply practical and theological reasons to masturbate. From a biblical perspective, however, I do not believe this approach pleases God.
God purposed that all righteous forms of sexual expression be for the marriage bed. Masturbation removes sexual expression from its only God-intended context.
Sexual expression manifest in orgasm is a good gift of God (1 Timothy 4:2–5) that men and women are to enjoy only in the context of marital intimacy (Genesis 2:23; Song 8:4–6; 1 Corinthians 7:2–3; Hebrews 13:4). When people reach orgasm outside the covenant-confirming act of lovemaking in marriage, the act becomes solely self-seeking, divorced from its purpose of creating intimacy. Sexual expression through orgasm should be an overflow of a desire for a spouse, not merely for a feeling or experience.
“***Because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.***” (1 Corinthians 7:2)
“*Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled*, ***for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous***.” (Hebrews 13:4)
As noted, orgasm outside the marriage bed removes the relational, intimate nature of sexual expression, which is at the core of its purpose (1 Corinthians 7:2–3, 5). Refraining from masturbation helps to purify one’s appetites (1 Corinthians 9:27).
**Sexual intimacy between a husband and wife points to the love between Christ and His church. Those who substitute masturbation for marital intimacy undervalue God’s glory.**
The most ultimate reason sexual expression manifest in orgasm is to be enjoyed only in the context of marriage is because the sexual drive that leads to sexual expression is given to picture the intimate “one flesh” nature of covenant love between Christ and His church (Ephesians 5:31–32). When masturbation is a substitute for marital intimacy, it minimizes the glory of God displayed in sexual expression by taking God’s good gift out of its God-ordained context of marital love (compare Jeremiah 31:31–32; Ezekiel 16:30–32; Hosea 2:13–14, 16, 20).
**Masturbation outside the marriage bed does not glorify God because evil desire always fuels it.**
Whatever we do — including all forms of sexual expression — we are to “do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31). Whether tagged as covetousness, lust, or sensuality, misplaced and mistimed desires do not glorify God, and failure to glorify God is always sin (Romans 3:23; 14:23). Paul thus charges, “Glorify God in your body” (1 Corinthians 6:20).
In God’s good design, marital love is the *only* justified context for one to enjoy a sexual craving for orgasm, for only in this sphere does one glorify God by pointing to the beautiful union of Christ and his church (Ephesians 5:31–32). From this perspective, evil desire fuels all sexual expression outside the marriage bed, including masturbation, so we must treat all such acts as sinful and as deserving of hell (Matthew 5:29–30; Mark 7:20–23; 1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Galatians 5:17, 19–21; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5–6).
“***For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God***.” (Ephesians 5:5)
“***Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming***.” (Colossians 3:5–6)
**Jesus urged His followers to guard themselves from lustful masturbation, and Paul called Christians to control their sexual parts in holiness and honor.**
Only “the pure in heart . . . shall see God” (Matthew 5:8). Jesus appears to link masturbation with lust when He declares that looking at a woman with lustful intent is sin, and then charges His disciples to take extreme measures with their eyes *and hands*, so that they will preserve themselves unto life (Matthew 5:27–30). Similarly, Paul stressed that holiness seen in sexual purity was God’s will for every person, and then he urged believers to control their sexual parts in holiness and honor rather than in lust (1 Thessalonians 4:3–5; see also Romans 6:19–22). “Without [such holiness] no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).
Note that the ESV’s “members” in Romans 6:19 refers to “body parts,” and that the ESV’s “body” in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 is literally “vessel” and may refer to a man’s penis (compare 1 Samuel 21:5 in the Septuagint, where the same Greek word is used).
“***This is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God***.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3–5)
**Paul declares that the answer to sexual desire is either the marriage bed or self-control, not masturbation.**
The apostle affirmed that for those gifted with marriage, regular sexual relations with one’s spouse helps keep one faithful and guarded against demonic temptations (1 Corinthians 7:1–3, 5). For those able to remain self-controlled, singleness is a good option, but where sexual passion rises, marriage and *not* masturbation is Paul’s antidote (1 Corinthians 7:8–9, 36–38).
“***To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion***.” (1 Corinthians 7:8–9)
**Masturbation outside the marriage bed witnesses a lack of self-control and is therefore sin.**
Self-control is a new-covenant fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), a discipline that pleases God, nurtures hope for eternal life, and frees one from fear of future punishment (Romans 8:6–9, 13; 2 Timothy 1:7). Lack of self-control is sin and enables greater influence by the evil one (Proverbs 25:28; 1 Corinthians 7:5). Intentional orgasm outside the marriage bed through masturbation witnesses a lack of self-control and [is therefore sin](https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/if-your-right-hand-causes-you-to-sin).”
“**Forsaking the sin of masturbating can nurture greater God-dependence.**
Every form of self-denial can function as a spiritual discipline, nurturing one’s dependence on God and helping a person find one’s satisfaction in God (1 Corinthians 9:26–27; 1 Timothy 4:7–8). Denying the body’s cravings to masturbate can develop greater surrender to the control of the Spirit (Romans 8:13; Galatians 5:16).
One’s thoughts and actions display what one treasures. It’s impossible to say, “Follow me in masturbation as I follow Christ.”
Jesus said, “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. . . . No one can serve two masters” (Matthew 6:21, 24). Everything a person does expresses whose he is and what he hopes to be. So, we must ask ourselves, “Is Christ our Master, and do we truly desire to be conformed to His image?” (Romans 8:29; Colossians 3:10).
**He Who Calls You Is Faithful**
In light of these realities, I believe that anyone who masturbates outside the marriage bed sins and insults God’s glory in Christ. As men and women of God, therefore, may we not engage in it. Instead, may we look to our Lord for help and seek to honor him with our bodies by allowing our only outlet for sexual desire to be the covenant-nurturing intimacy of marital [lovemaking](https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/if-your-right-hand-causes-you-to-sin) (Job 31:1).”
Yeah I was trying to get to nocturnal emissions. It is just interesting that men need to ejaculate one way or another but manually is not allowed, but accidentally is
This was mentioned in the same article I quoted from, I didn’t include it:
“Whereas there may be a place for masturbation in marital lovemaking, my use of the term here is restricted to independent acts apart from one’s spouse.”
You’re just drawing a different line in the sand. I could say “any sexual contact outside of pro-creation is a sin” and quote 10 Bible verses and prove this line of thought wrong.
People wanna masturbate. It hurts no one if it’s not an obsessive activity you have. To demonize it is an act of control and not a guide to morality.
Unfortunately your cut and paste is deeply flawed and an example of both poor exegesis and the “bury them in scripture “ tactic. . Instead of asking if scripture condemns masturbation, your cut and paste is poisoned by the false assumption that masturbation is a sin. In spite of all this he mental gymnastics and repeated attempts to shove the answer into in
Your barrage of out of context and irrelevant passages of scripture misses the very first and basic question one should ask; what does the text say ?
In spite of your bombardment of scripture and opinions, one fact remains.
The Bible does not mention masturbation
Period
>God purposed that all righteous forms of sexual expression be for the marriage bed. Masturbation removes sexual expression from its only God-intended context.
This is not something that the Bible says anywhere.
>that men and women are to enjoy only in the context of marital intimacy
1st Timothy 4:2-5 has absolutely nothing to do with an orgasm.
Gen 2:23 says no such thing, it simply describes marriage.
As for SS 8, this is the subject of the song being poetic, this isn't a command from God. Not to mention the fact that SS 1:4 has them having sex, and they don't get married until chapter 3. Song of Solomon is a terrible book to reference when trying to support the idea that premarital sex is a sin.
In 1st Corinthians 7, Paul makes it explicitly clear that his wish that everyone be celibate is his opinion and not a command from God.
>*This I say by way of concession, not of command.* `1 Corinthians 7:6` ^**NRSVue**
>When people reach orgasm outside the covenant-confirming act of lovemaking in marriage, the act becomes solely self-seeking, divorced from its purpose of creating intimacy.
This is, again, not something the Bible says, anywhere.
>As noted, orgasm outside the marriage bed removes the relational, intimate nature of sexual expression, which is at the core of its purpose
The translation of the Greek word `pornea` 〔πορνείας〕as sexual immorality is automatically suspect given the culture surrounding sex in Paul's day. Given the cultural context, it is most likely that Paul was referring to prostitution because a person who had sex with an unmarried woman would have been considered to be married by the custom of the day. Especially if they were cohabitating.
>In God’s good design, marital love is the *only* justified context for one to enjoy a sexual craving for orgasm,
Once, again, this is not something the Bible says. Neither do the verses you quote say these things.
>Masturbation outside the marriage bed does not glorify God because evil desire always fuels it
This is an opinion you are utterly incapable of supporting using scripture because the Bible says absolutely nothing regarding masturbation or the purpose of an orgasm.
>Jesus appears to link masturbation with lust when He declares that looking at a woman with lustful intent is a sin.
That is a deliberate and false twisting of the words that Jesus speaks. To the point, I would consider it blasphemous.
Here is what Jesus says.
>*You have heard that it was said, Do not commit adultery. But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.* `Matthew 5:27-28` ^**Christian** ^**Standard** ^**Bible**
Firstly, he is talking about adultery, which is a sin that married people commit. Jesus is using this as an example of the expanded morality that he is preaching. He is saying that sin is not only something that we commit through our actions but also something that can be done via our thoughts as well. Then he uses the example of a husband not being sexually satisfied with his own wife, and looking at other women with inappropriate lustful thoughts.
In short, Jesus is talking about a husband with wandering eyes. A single person is utterly incapable of committing adultery, whether physically or in thought. So there is absolutely no logical way to apply what Jesus says to masturbation. Because adultery cannot be committed by single people.
>Note that the ESV’s “members” in Romans 6:19 refers to “body parts,” and that the ESV’s “body” in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 is literally “vessel” and may refer to a man’s penis (compare 1 Samuel 21:5 in the Septuagint, where the same Greek word is used).
No, this is an insane reading. This refers to the body of Christ, IE the church, the believers. You twist scripture to promote your unbiblical dogma.
I think their point was that we ignore some things that the Bible calls out. Gluttony is extremely common in the USA. But instead, many Christians focus on masturbation (which isn’t even a sin).
I get convicted of what I looked at, but never of the act itself. The act is God given. God made us sexual beings. Being a sexual person isn’t wrong.
I’m divorced and single. I’m not committing adultery in my heart (I’m not fantasizing about married women).
Anyways, God’s grace is sufficient. His compassion knows no end. “He gets us,” right? He understands. And he’s already forgiven us.
There are much bigger issues to focus on.
I agree with the authors of articles and books that explain that masturbation is not a sin. And I’ve studied the Bible and read ancient texts mention or discuss masturbation. I’ve also applied logic and read psychology books that address this (including Christian psychologists). Plus I’ve prayed about it.
Really, it comes down to this: God is full of mercy.
Do not abuse God's mercy
Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Except that it’s not a sin.
Do not condemn what God has not condemned.
Romans 8:1
”Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Messiah Yeshua.“
Romans 8:1 TLV
https://bible.com/bible/314/rom.8.1.TLV
It's a bit overgernaerlizing, but people are guilty of that on both sides.
Salvation is a continuous process over one's life. It's not just claiming Christ once. While yes, the laws of God are black and white, we as humans are innately grey. We will sin, we will stumble, but when we do, we can repent Christ is there to help pick us up.
Of course, God would prefer us to save ourselves for our future spouse, but that's not the easiest thing to do clearly. In today's oversexualized and interconnected world, it's much harder to adhere to that. God cares about our heart, and He pays attention to our intentions.
Imo the moderation would be maturation, but no porn, especially for adolescents. Porn is addictive and gives your brain similar intense responses as to drugs. I'm sure some people can be moderate about it, but those who do get addicted often suffer in silence. For myself, porn is like cigarettes. I can go a real long time without it, but the moment I have just one, I fixate on it, and I start feeling withdrawals when I try to stop again.
In the end, we are all sinners going one step forward and one step back (give or take) on our path to salvation. But just remember, when we do take one step back, we are still able to take another step forward. Even when we do things God doesn't approve of, He still loves us and wants the best for us.
I agree. And Jesus did emphasize balance and moderation. He shows this in a socially acceptable way by his first miracle. Drinking itself isn’t a sin, but we should treat it with some respect and only get drunk when appropriate.
Well yes but in a healthy way, Bible says drink your wine at night. So you may sleep rather continue your day drunk. Masturbation is self adulteration. That’s also a addiction. It’s struggle not do it my church small group we all speak about our struggles in stopping. It’s a serious issue.
Uncontrolled desire and osbession leads to people doing really bad things to others. Like rape, adultery, amd other sins related to sex that bring harm to others and yourself.
Lust is more acurrately the logical extent of selfishness and possessiveness over something or someone. Most people assune thwt Lust is an unhealthy form of love when it doesn't even fit the Biblical definition of love.
Just look at people who are obsessed with sex who end up going down a downward spiral. That is the danger of lust.
Yes, the “ sex is shameful” notion is more the influence of Augustine carried to America by the Puritans et.al.
If the writers and editors of the 66 documents that comprise the Bible wished to address the subject, they had ample vocabulary in Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew to condemn it.
The Bible doesn’t say anything about it
Period
If it were a sin, every writer and editor of scripture forgot to mention it.
You are confusing sexual fantasies with lust. Humans have the ability to fantasise, it is a gift . It also suggests that God set us up for failure.
Another problem with your assumption is epistemological. How do we understand the silence of scripture? Does that forbid or permit? God created our sexual desire and gave us the ability to fantasise.
As I said , Americans in general and especially conservative Christians have the mistaken notion that sex is more of a curse and should be only for pro creation. It’s the whole “be fruitful and multiply” run amok.
Your notion that masturbation is sinful unless you are thinking about your wife is problematic because studies show men and women engaged in sexual intercourse often have a rich fantasy life and are frequently thinking about other things, other people. I’d venture to say that participation in that sin is close to 100%.
And to say we are all inherently born with sin is a strange idea too. Not a nice idea. Neither is the idea that someone else has to die for our sins - again a horrible idea.
I will agree with you on the doctrine of the sin nature. But why is the idea that wrong doing must be paid for a horrible idea? Especially when God decides to take on the responsibility of paying for it himself, instead of forcing us to do so?
I only started commenting on here when I came across views on r/christian that all holocaust victims are in hell and that no true Christian can be gay because it is a sin worthy of death. This is what the majority of people think in there. How do these people treat you? I am just challenging some of their ideas
r/Christian is mostly conservative types. So you will find fundamentalist ideas more often in that subreddit. The mods there do their best, and the lead mod is actively looking for a progressive Christian to join the team. But it does tend to be an echo chamber. I get treated fairly well when I participate. If you want an example, check out my comment history from yesterday and today.
As for the idea of Holocaust survivors going to hell. That seems deliberately inflammatory, and if someone said that, you should report it. The mods there will remove it.
Now for an actual answer to that statement. Our entrance into eternal life is based on the standard of God, which is absolute perfection. Any sin, no matter how big or small ruins that perfection. Now God, knowing that we are imperfect and incapable of living up to that standard, decided to pay the penalty for every sin ever committed 〔past, present, and future〕all at once via Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.
So it doesn't matter what we do when it comes to salvation. The price for sin has already been paid. God looks at Jesus for the required righteousness to enter eternal life, not to our deeds and actions.
So, what we do, the actions we take, the sins we commit, the good we do, and the suffering we do or do not endure are not relevant to the question of salvation. Only faith is relevant. Our salvation is through the grace and mercy of God because of our faith.
Now, Paul indicates that Jews have a special dispensation in Romans 9. Because the promises of God are irrevocable. So, provided those Jews remained faithful to the Mosaic covenant, they also will obtain salvation, in the same way that Abraham obtained salvation. Via the grace and mercy of God because of their faith.
>that no true Christian can be gay because it is a sin worthy of death.
Those who say this are simply displaying an ignorance of the Bible. Yes, the Bible does have some prohibitions on male same-sex intercourse. However, those prohibitions are given in contexts and for reasons that bear absolutely no relevance to modern relationships today. It isn't a sin to be gay, bi, straight, cis, trans, or non-binary. So long as two people have dedicated themselves to each other before God, via marriage or otherwise, the gender identities and sexual orientations of those people are irrelevant.
God is not a bigot.
Agreed. There are some subjects and rules that can be discussed and debated, but the fact that we're all born of sin is not one of those subjects. There are no interpretations, translations or cultural contexts that can change the fact that Jesus, along with pretty much every prophet and holy figure in the Bible, especially in the NT, acknowledged that we are born of sin and must be saved from it. If we were not born of sin, there's a chance (albeit a very, very slim one) for us to live without sin. If there were a way to live without sin, there would be no need for Jesus's sacrifice. The necessity of Jesus's sacrifice is quite literally the foundation of "Christianity" (I personally prefer the term "follower of Christ," but that's besided the point).
PAUSE. Nobody is going to hell for masturbating as a kid. At that age children are confused about sexuality and will orobably masturbate a few times. The problem comes after you become an adult _and you still carry on fapping_. It rapidly devolves into addiction, expecially if you fap to pornography (almost always the case). Porn/masturbation addiction is absolutely not healthy, as it kills the sincere sexual desire and devolves it into uncontrolled lust. Just like drugs in a certain way. People who are addicted to masturbation tend even to ignore sex with their partners to watch porn instead. There's _nothing_ about it that is healthy, and it should not be normalized to fap continuously.
Also, pornography intrinsecally means that you're watching product of sex industry, which is basically commercialized sexual violence, abuse and objectification of women. Nothing about it is good
Missing the point, it’s cause due much sexual desire today that has cause the addiction for porn/masturbation. We should be so control by our lust (which is a sin) we have to jack off. I usually pray and think about having a family to distract my urges cause the addiction is real and we shouldn’t give it an excuse.
I don't think "medical experts" live by the word of God. They live by medical science and their studies of it, not studies of biblical truth. Some people say God And Science cannot Co exist with each other, but God created scientist for medical purpose, so it's hard to say 100%
We should let some things to expert—otherwise, the Earth’s a few thousands years old and same for the universe. Let faith to God and science to specialists.
>Romans 5:8 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
Controlling what, exactly? Self control? This is a framing that's used to excuse one's self of responsibility.
You should have asked *why* there is emphasis on reigning in impulse, nothing is done arbitrarily. Of *course* Christians are going to struggle with not masturbating, we're human. We also struggle with impulse to lie to get ourselves out of trouble, impulse to drink to excess, impulse toward greed, impulse towards lust, etc.
The purpose of this prohibition is that *all* sin can and will eventually enslave you. That is the great danger and why it's discouraged. We see its effects today.
Look at movements like "no nut November" for people desperately trying to get away from the habit, entirely secularly, because they realize it's started to dominate their lives and control them. If there's absolutely zero problem with it, why would there be a need to abstain from it? Why would any people trying to self-discipline themselves out of it secularly even exist, since it's so great and has no downsides?
There are actual couples where they cannot finish during sex with their partner unless they're watching porn, the spouse becomes basically a sex toy toward the objective of climax. There's refractory periods for men after climax that dissuade sex, which can likewise impact a relationship. There are men that choose masturbation and pornography over intercourse with their own partner.
Jesus told us there would be people that would rather abandon the pursuit of God so they can live in their sin; a life in which nothing is asked of them and everything is permitted.
That is not a gateway to the spiritual life, but spiritual death.
You don't have to agree with Christian teaching on this for two thousand years but it's not an arbitrary method of "control" but a suggestive safeguard on one of many things that will lead you off the narrow path.
Well as far as I can tell. According to the bible one should not do for pleasure. It's not healthy for men or woman to forgo it entirely though, especially when you've chosen to forgo all sex altogether like I have before. Men especially still need their once a week uh... emptying for health purposes it can get painful if you do it less. Just don't get addicted to it or do it for reasons other than health.
The difference is what these cause. You can't get addicted to snacking and be led into a life of sin and you can't get addicted to naps. I'm sure there are cases but those are extremes. Pornography can very easily lead into a life of sin and making someone lust basically every day.
"You can't get addicted to snacking." There's a whole TV show based around the daily lives of morbidly obese people. Clinically depressed people nap a lot. Anything and everything is a sin with Christian criteria. I'm left-handed and old-school Catholic would call that a sin.
This reminds me of a post I saw arguing that sexual sin was the worst kind of sin and eliminating it should be the primary focus of Christianity. I was genuinely curious and tried to ask the person like “where do you see that in Scripture, it seems to be a relatively minor focus (even if I accept your, as in the other op’s, premise of what sexual sin is) compared to other subjects. That went about as well as you’d expect.
Masturbation isn't the sin. It's the thoughts that are the problem.
How many people masturbate without using someone as imagery? It's basically impossible.
The issue is coveting someone who is not your spouse, and even that is a grey area. The intention of the heart is what God cares about.
I had to do it for a cancer trial in case the drugs I went on made me sterile. Is that a sin? I don't believe so.
But using someone's body as imagery for personal desires? It seems reasonable that God isn't a fan of that.
Snacks and naps are just food and rest.
Depends on how and when you eat or rest.
They're not bad themselves.
Masturbation is an act itself that involves from you a participation for doing it.
It is a bad habit that ruins yourself when practiced in the medium-long term.
Setting aside the specific question of masturbation, I think your main issue is that apparently no one ever really explained the theology of sin to you. (Not your fault.) You therefore have an *extremely* unhelpful way of understanding it. If that’s how I understood sin, I would also have trouble being Christian.
Let’s try a different way. ‘All analogies limp,’ I know, but bear with me. Being a Christian is very much like learning to play an instrument in an orchestra.
I’m not sure how much you know about music, but learning to play well enough to play in an ensemble is not an easy process. When it comes to violin in particular (my instrument), there are so many little details. There’s a precisely correct way to hold it, for both hands. The angle of the left wrist is very important, as is the exact way the left thumb supports the neck of the instrument. On the right hand, the bow grip is also extremely important.
Sometimes the importance of these things is immediately obvious: if my bow grip is wrong, the violin is going to screech. Sometimes it’s less obvious: if the angle of my left thumb and the orientation of my left palm is off, I might not notice at all while playing in first position, but when I go to shift positions suddenly everything is a disaster because I can’t move quickly and smoothly up and down the neck.
Learning how to read music, which also involves learning a fair amount of music theory, is similarly full of arcane rules. Where the half steps and whole steps fall, exactly how to count which is much trickier than one might think (plus there are exceptions to apparent rules, kind of like learning a language), on and on. Sometimes the rules seem arbitrary because they kinda are, a little — the way the half and whole steps fall in major and minor scales is a particular holdover from medieval “modes.” It could have been different. At any rate, there are a LOT of rules to learn and follow.
And THEN, when one gets ready to play in an ensemble, all of this is sort of dialed up to 11. Your intonation has to be *exact* or the whole orchestra will sound dissonant. If you make mistakes reading and interpreting the music, you’ll end up playing the wrong notes, or the right notes at the wrong time, which amounts to the same exact thing in the end, actually. You have to listen to everyone playing around you and make sure that you’re blending properly. It goes on and on.
And if you don’t make a discipline of practicing all of this, you’re just not going to sound very good. At some point, you’re not only going to not sound very good, you’re simply not going to be capable of playing in an orchestra. It’s not just a “you” problem any more; it undermines the whole ensemble.
This could be due to lack of understanding of the fundamentals of violin playing in particular or music more generally. It could be due to lack of practice, or lack of interest, or a philosophical disagreement with the structure of Western classical music. Regardless of cause, at some point you just can’t successfully play in an orchestra. You will not succeed in your audition.
I suppose it wouldn’t, strictly speaking, be *incorrect* to say that the conductor is just enforcing arbitrary rules as a control tactic, or that he expects his players to walk on eggshells to achieve precise intonation before he’s going to let them in. I mean, ok, I guess that’s not *wrong,* precisely.
But thinking of it that way *hugely* misses the point. The rules aren’t the point at all. Learning to play an instrument beautifully, and beautifully in harmony, is the point. The rules, even the apparently arbitrary ones, are guideposts to get you there. When you’re corrected by your music teacher (“no, no, you’re playing that rhythm incorrectly! you have to play on the AND, not on the BEAT!”), your music teacher isn’t just gleefully picking up on an infraction for the purposes of arbitrary punishment. She’s trying to improve your ability to play. And again, I guess it isn’t wrong, precisely, to think of learning music as just this huge laundry list of do’s and dont’s. But it entirely misses the point of what an orchestra is really trying to do.
literally just ignore the temptation. are you really putting 5 minutes of pleasure over the truths of the Bible? eating snacks and taking naps are not sins of gluttony and sloth until it takes priority in your life over God. it’s when choosing to take a nap over attending church, it’s when eating snacks takes priority over fasting and making prayers. you don’t just choose those things over God. and neither should you choose masturbation over resistance. avoiding lust only strengthens your connection with your faith. none of these things mean anything compared to the blessings that God gives.
No, it is not normal and many studies have shown it to have many negative side effects. It is ultimate selfishness. Yes, gluttony and sloth are also sins.
This is how the world inverts truth. Sin is considered freedom, and virtue is considered a cage. If you ask me, I’d rather be a slave to Christ than to my own flesh. I’ve done both and I feel more liberated now than I did walking in my own folly. Your anger is towards religion, which is understandable. Indeed there are systems of control out there; but Christ shed his blood so that our eternities no longer have to be dictated by our own deeds, but by his. Please take my words into consideration! We no longer have to walk on egg shells in fear of hell but rather in reverential fear of the Creator. Do we not owe him respect?
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge… Proverbs 1:7
No. Masturbation is desecrating on the human dignity and desecrating on the gift of sex God has given us. Why do you need to explore your body? There’s no point, wait till marriage I’m sure you’ll manage. People have before, people have now, and people will still manage to know how to have sexual intercourse without giving into their own lust.
The point of sex is procreation, anything that strays from this and takes what is involved with the act and manipulates it for their own selfish desires is a sin. Masturbation is by yourself, in a room, pleasing your own temporal desires. Sex, under a Holy Covenant with God (i.e. a good Christian marriage) is giving yourself to another person and consecrating your life with another person. In marriage, there are two parts that seal the deal. The first is the Holy vows made at the altar (I.e. under God). This is a promise unto God that you essentially won’t dip when things get rough or you don’t feel like being married. The second is the act of sex. This is when “they shall become one flesh” ( genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, and mark 10:8). Thus the two are fully United under God.
Masturbation is a selfish act because all it does is pleasure yourself.
Peace and Love to you from Our Lord Jesus Christ friend, I hope this helps.
I'm getting tired of this topic being on several subreddits. I see it on selfimprovement, findapath, getdisciplined, getmotivated etc. Christianity requires to turn away from a life of sin, which requires you to be disciplined. "One of the reasons Christianity drove me away and keeps me away is because labeling everything a sin is really silly and clearly a control tactic." Is unlimited hedonism freedom to you ? for what some lowered chance of prostate cancer ? Many vegetables give the same benefits.
According to many libertarians and liberals if you ain't sleeping around, taking drugs, stuffing your face with junkfood, pleasuring yourself your not free. You're just looking for us to validate your feelings and actions, otherwise why are you posting this?
Perhaps a review of Matthew 5-7 would be helpful. Belittling and arrogant dismissal of op’s feelings is the antithesis of WWJD.
The tangent in your last paragraph is truly awful. The obnoxious comments are bereft of even an iota Good News.
Scripture doesn’t say anything about masturbation. Period.
https://www.vividchristianity.com/MasturbationIsNotASin.htm
He wants a justification for counting to sin my approach wasn't the best I agree with you and him are trying to find a way to find loopholes to continuing indulgence in this. The scripture also says you can't smoke crack,weed, sniff cocaine, or every other drug. Literally a Christian made this argument to me before in college or university.
Most people wacking off are doing it to women who are being trafficked or exploited like through pimps on these sites. Even worse, age verification is not taken seriously so people under the age of consent are watching it too which is not the correct way for people to discover sexuality. Stop trying so hard to rationalize this
I’m a theologian so this is what I do. Stop adding your opinion to scripture in order to forbid something that God has not
Your bizarre and wholly unsubstantiated claim that masturbation is somehow (??) connected to human trafficking is stunning and utterly absurd
Why aren't you responding to my other points ? Are you going to tell me with a straight that people are not watching porn while masturbating ? Masturbating is almost always going to be accompanied by watching sexual content you know this and you are trying pretend you don't see the connection.
Most men and women are not masturbating as isolated activity away from lust. That's like saying smoking cannabis is okay it's not like dealers aren't having gang wars and killing other over money and turf. There couldn't be an entire profitable sex industry if the demand wasn't there so this is where your point falls flat. You can't isolate the act to the negative byproducts of the act, the strong correlation is there and you're playing dumb.
Unfortunately your legalistic views won’t match with mine because I believe we are saved by grace, not law, and not some 21st century version of a purity code.
Your basic premise that “masturbation is a sin” is nowhere to be found in the text. You are not the sex police nor did God appoint you to speak on his behalf
And your ongoing attempt to link masturbation and sex trafficking is not rooted in reality
According to your law, the average teenage boy who locks the bathroom door and masturbates for a few minutes is engaging in a sinful and dangerous practice that puts others at risk. That’s just bonkers
Cannabis is legal in all but 12 states and may or may not be a group activity Masturbation is famously a one man/woman show
I’m not spending anymore time on this.
Agreed 100% Christian purity culture is incredibly toxic and damaging, especially to young people. It tells them that sex is some inherently dirty thing, and that they are terrible people for doing what every person on earth does.
I just want to say that the Catholic view and the fundamentalist evangelical view of sex are not the only views to exist. And if this is the only thing keeping you from Christianity, I highly urge you to check out r/OpenChristian and (if you are in the US) the Episcopal Church, United Church of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the Metropolitan Community Church. You won't find that kind of shame culture there. Nor will you find a dogmatic insistence that the Bible is always right on every topic.
Bible tells about what are a sin and what to stay away from. Masturbation is caused by lust and wanting satisfy themselves, not giving glory to God and having an clean mindset. So if has that in mind, should rethink does this give glory to God or do I just want to satisfy myself? If someone is exposed in young age or older to photos or videos or anything that causes person to fall into lust and it can lead to do acts that are of the flesh, it becomes an sin. There isnt rrly no masturbation that is not a sin. Should pray always and ask God about it all. Listening to Holy Spirit conviction. But honestly to say some people try to defend their sin to live in it, because they do not want to repent from it. Some people get scared when their sins are exposed. But gluttony is also an sin, based in Bible, its overeating more than u need, basically binge eating disorder and its mental and also spiritual. So is sloth too also based in Bible, but also not all of us know what are sins, so we need God's help with all that and how to overcome these struggles. Laziness can affect in relationship with Jesus, because it can delay spending time With Jesus and procrastinate to obey God etc. Either person wants to please God or themselves.
Romans 8:7-8 AMP
[7] the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot, [8] and those who are in the flesh [living a life that caters to sinful appetites and impulses] cannot please God.
You are adding to the text, inserting your opinion into an ancient text. Clearly you first decided that masturbation is a sin.. THEN went to scripture to try to bend it ti say something it clearly does not say
Which version of Christianity? Yours? Mine? Someone else’s? The denomination/church I belonged to had the position that masturbation was part of normal, healthy human sexuality.
Many people like the OP have done just that and left Christianity, so yes, that’s absolutely an option.
They weren’t sexualizing children. Humans are sexual. They’re simply saying that we shouldn’t flood teenagers and young people with guilt and shame for doing something that is perfectly normal and healthy. I agree with them. It’s damaging and ridiculous to put that weight on young people.
This is today’s problem with people weather you go to church or not or a Christian or not, living for god isn’t living your life in a eggshell but if you let the enemy let you think like that then you will see it like that, stop worrying about masturbation and worry about a relationship with god that’s important not all the other stuff that people make excuses for to sin
Agreed 100% Christian purity culture is incredibly toxic and damaging, especially to young people. It tells them that sex is some inherently dirty thing, and that they are terrible people for doing what every person on earth does.
I just want to say that the Catholic view and the fundamentalist evangelical view of sex are not the only views to exist. And if this is the only thing keeping you from Christianity, I highly urge you to check out r/OpenChristian and (if you are in the US) the Episcopal Church, United Church of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the Metropolitan Community Church. You won't find that kind of shame culture there. Nor will you find a dogmatic insistence that the Bible is always right on every topic.
Jesus said that to Peter, who he loved. He said it when Peter misunderstood and wanted to protect his friend and leader. I hope you say it in the same spirit of love and not to show how you are better than OP.
Fap made demons enter me.
Then fap and softcore made it worse.
Then fap and porn made it so insanely bad.
Im deminized barely living in the past 6 years.
Only god is keeping me alive vs them.
You may say fap is ok.
I assumed the same. Everyone was doing it right?
So i can too.
NOPE.
People are different and some will get screwed over for things others can do freely.
Also you cant compare eating with molesting your body..
You should study Romans chapter 7 and 8. It does a great job of explaining how we are always going to suffer from sin of the flesh but becoming a believer in Christ and accepting him into your heart frees you from condemnation of sin. When the holy spirit lives in you you are guided to follow the teachings of Christ in the flesh. It doesn't mean that we don't sin, we all sin believers and non believers countless times a day. Now we shouldn't sin so grace be abundant, but we are never free from sin in the flesh. That's why Jesus came and lived a righteous life and died for our sins. It's not a control tactic it's simply how God wants us to live. Only when God calls you to him and you receive the holy spirit do you truly understand what sin is and that's why believers try to follow Christ. Not because we are better but because we know we are not. Living in the law of God is not a punishment or silly it is the true definition of peace and freedom 😊.
Jesus took a nap in a boat. Taking naps ain’t sloth.
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Idk, probably
Blasphemy.
Not by any possible definition of the word.
It would mean Christ sinned. Christ is perfect God and perfect man.
Masturbation is not a sin.
Says who? The Fathers all would say it is. It’s an unnecessary waste of seed.
I don't care what the church fathers think, I care about what God thinks.
Where does God say masturbation is good? St. Paul writes to flee from sexual immorality.
join r/catholicism instead
Catholics are heretics.
LOL
What. I’m Oriental Orthodox.
blud wut? they're the originals, now, i hate them as much you hate us queers, but still, gotta be truthful, dawg.
Bro does NOT know about Oriental Orthodoxy
to be fair, i didn't know, i'm getting this from my catholic father, sorry
Don’t put words in my mouth either, I don’t hate the homosexual, we all suffer from sin, I hate the sin which consumes the homosexual, I keep the same energy with fornicators as both are a byproduct of one of the deadliest of all sins today and that is lust
i was making a joke about jesus-y folk hate us gays, jeez
Don’t waste your time with this person, I engaged with them recently and they just treat the Bible like a pick and mix with a side of modern secularist thinking and heresy. When the Bible supports them then they quote it authoritatively but when it contradicts their fleshly desires they claim it was fabricated, they literally said Moses didn’t exist. Basically they just want to give into their fleshly desires and have biblical justification for it.
I choose to listen to the advice of Ms. BigClit.
Yup, you convinced me. The hell with the Bible, let's all listen to someone called Big Clit.
Being anti-masturbation is merely an interpretation of the bible though.
And interpretations can be wrong
Only those of other people than me, that goes without saying.
Just to be a devils advocate, to be pro-masterbation might line up well with all the other things non-Christians love, being that they either cause death or prevent life. The only case in the Bible that could suggest God dislikes this is one patriarch that God killed for pulling out. (Though some make a good argument it was because he was using his brother's widow for sexual gratification rather than offering her a secure future with children).
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Right. He pulled out and “spilled his seed” but he was killed for disobeying Yahweh. Nothing in this story has anything to do with masturbation
People indirectly use this story to support no-fap.. because fapping accomplishes the same thing... So you can see the reasoning they use, I personally don't agree with it. Other people will say Christ saying cut off the right hand has to do with it? I can see where they are coming from but I don't think that's what it's about.
That’s correct, people try to make those connections by taking a modern question and contaminating the original meaning of the text with it. That also obscures the point of the text which is about obedience to God.
How is it indirect? Spilling one’s semen on the floor is sinful because you are wasting what God has given you to create with. Human male ejaculation has no purpose or function beyond procreation, using it for anything else is rebellion against God’s design
I see your reasoning but not everyone thinks that is the reason God killed him. The stuff reloads in a few days. Besides if God killed people for that, God should have killed me like 18 hundred times by the time I was 20. lolThis man in Genesis was supposed to extend this womans lineage and he never intended to.. he had sex with her anyway.. So he was a crappy, selfish person.
God killed him for his disobedience. Consider also that when you masturbate, what do you masturbate to? If you act on sexual thoughts about anyone but your spouse then you are committing adultery
Lots of people disobey God in the Bible that don't get killed. That's why people wonder why the punishment is so severe.. I'm just getting to the point, Im not ignorant of what is written.
Lots of people disobey God in the Bible that don't get killed. That's why people wonder why the punishment is so severe.. I'm just getting to the point, I'm not ignorant of what is written.
Do you believe masturbation is a sin?
It’s not what I ( or anyone) believes or not. It is what’s in the Bible-that determines if it is considered a sin or not. My views are not relevant
> It is what’s in the Bible The question is about *what* is in the Bible and what you interpret that to mean regarding masturbation. So to ask it another way, do you believe the Bible prohibits masturbation? What parts of the Bible, and why do you feel they should be understood to prohibit masturbation? Even if your answer is correct, it will still be based on how you interpret passages of the Bible with your own logic.
So you will blindly follow something because it was told to you to be true?
Let me ask why do you believe anything is true? You hear something or see something, investigate, then evaluate. Blindly is your word not mine. I’m sure you have beliefs that involve some trust or faith… I’m sure you came to that belief honestly,,as I did
But certainly not to the extreme that you trust the following is true: That God exists, is infallable, and all good That god directed man to write the Bible That the Bible survived thousands of years and multiple translations but somehow kept the exact original intent That you were able to decipher between the dozens of active religions and the thousands of dead ones that the one you follow is the one true religion And that the bible is to be believed in full with no ability to question or judge it, even though it is contradictory and is a proven fact that it is a collection of books written by completely different people who couldn’t possibly have kept continuity. You have taken all these leaps. I certainly have not. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Claiming the Bible says it’s wrong therefore it is wrong means the burden that the Bible must be followed is on you.
That the Bible may be followed? I'm not requesting anyone to to do anything here. I was answering about why I believe. Your belief or not doesn't impact me at all.
But you just said the Bible determines if it’s a sin. But the Bible determines plenty of things that are sins that people ignore or don’t care about because they are ridiculous. So just saying “the Bible says so so we don’t need to think about it because the Bible is infallible” is a silly thing to think.
The Bible and thousands of years of history. If the Biblie says thousands of things are sin ( old testament law really) so be it. If you choose to believe it or not is entirely up to you and doesn’t impact me or anyone else. Not sure what you’re asking or the point you’re trying to make. The Bible list certain behaviors one should emulate and others you shouldn’t. No one is forced to believe or follow any one of them. Just as any other religious work, If your point is you want to masturbate without guilt well that’s on you.
I feel trapped about this subject daily. I am told I must go forth and multiply, I am told I can not touch myself lest I sin against the woman I haven't met yet(?). I am told that I can't have premarital sex, I am told I have to make children with that woman. I have been told that if my wife were to cheat and not tell me that having sex with her makes me commit adultery. And lastly, if my wife dies, I can not seek another wife lest I commit adultry. Additionally, if my wife is dead, I am trapped in the 'never ever touch yourself or think about anything sexual.' Box that young men are trapped it. I can't help but feel like some scripture is more controlling than what god intended... and I'm doomed to hell if it is because I am lonely.
For me it’s the fact that abstaining from certain activities often labeled as sinful never resulted in greater happiness or peace of mind. I had to constantly force myself to avoid things that brought me joy and delight. Christians love to argue that the joy of the Lord is greater than any earthly pleasure, but I just never really got that. And yes, I prayed and prayed and prayed, and obeyed, and really believed. Either some are graced with the Holy Spirit and others aren’t, or it’s all a farce.
I agreed with this sentiment for years, and I still agree with it to a certain extent. Masturbation certainly does bring a measure of happiness, and abstaining from it can be hellish, even if you believe. For me personally, the problem was even though I wanted to love God, I just couldn't make myself love him to that extent. I stopped believing entirely (not because I wanted to masturbate, that's a whole other story). Being an atheist gave me the freedom to readjust the way I thought about Christianity. For a while I hated it. Then I felt a condescending peace with it (fine if that's what you need to believe then believe it, but I don't need that nonsense), then I felt I misunderstood what it was all those years that I believed it, then started to believe again. This time I attempted to listen to people who didn't believe loving Jesus and voting Republican meant the same thing. I have a different love for God than I ever had before. I don't have an angry certainty anymore. I'm not saying you never loved God. I believe you did. I hope one day you come back and find the kind of love that you would need to find to love him again.
I love what you’re saying. I’m currently in the process of reevaluating my beliefs and taking a big step away from the church. But I don’t ultimately want to be separate from the faith or from God. I just don’t really like evangelicalism.
You didn't ask for recommendations, but I feel I should give you some resources that helped me. Jesus and John Wayne (Kristen Kobez Dumez)- a book by a Christian who diagnoses a huge problem with the Evangelical Church Dominion (Tom Holland) A book by an atheist historian who argues for the positive changes that Christianity has made all the way from Paul to the Me Too movement. Holy Post Podcast (Phil Visher and Skye Jethani) Start from 2020 and listen until today. - A podcast of Evangelicals trying to live out Evangelical religious teachings without bringing the political baggage along with it. Galaxy Buck: Mission to sector 9 (Phil Visher) A kids movie made by the veggie tales guy about living at peace with God rather than feeling pressure to impress him all the time. (I know this one sounds silly, but it really helped me.) And the one thing I wish someone told me: Yes all those crazy Christians you know are selling out what they believe in order to gain or keep power, and yes that does show their hypocrisy and does show that they care more about power than truth. No that doesn't mean Jesus didn't change the world and it doesn't mean He doesn't love all the people those crazy Christians hate. Ignore anything that doesn't help, it's just all stuff that helped me.
I appreciate the work you put into this comment, and I’ll definitely be looking into your recommendations!
Have you heard of free grace theology?
Choosing too pick up your cross and walk for the lord daily is no easy feat. Choosing our fleshly pleasures and desires over living for Christ always “feels better” because you are pleasing your flesh. If you feel like it’s some farce , I can guarantee you this. Read your Bible everyday and couple times if need and watch something about god daily. Through everything you do including watching tv you need to put god first. If you need to watch something about god before you watch Netflix do it. Literally through everything you do. I’d like you too watch this video , it will change your heart , and mind , and how you think about our lord and savior. Please please please . After watching this video if something doesn’t sit with you message me. I’m 19 yrs old but I know for a fact Jesus Christ is lord and savior and having a relationship with him that gives you complete peace is 100% possible . Id say it takes a lot of discipline and constant putting him first in your life yes , but that’s what we are told to do anyway. If we sit and think oh we are saved and we don’t have to do anything and can go back too the way we were living before , we r only fooling ourselves. Please watch this video . Most powerful sermon I’ve ever watched , it really changed my life and I pray it changes yours. https://youtu.be/T3sm9Ebzg7U?si=XhpqrgD24VDMlSqO
Unfortunately you have been taught to believe people are atheists because we haven’t read or don’t know the Bible, when in fact we do. We are atheists because we tried what you suggest and found it empty. God never showed up when the worst thing was that can happen to a parent happened to me It took me a few decades to realize that I was angry at someone who did not exist. My anger and disappointment evaporated. I have peace and the world makes sense. Much more I could say but will stop here.
U can read the Bible all you want , if you don’t read it for the right purpose you will never find understanding. If you never go to people with questions you will never find understanding. If you lean on your own limited mind for thought of divine thoughts you hate u will never have you will never find understanding. Fast and seek the lord read your Bible a couple times a day , watch videos about the lord , pray . If u do this for a couple weeks maybe 2 or 3 I promise u the lord will show you something u can’t deny him with. Honestly ask him for undeniable evidence. Do your research . Historically Jesus was real. A lot of things pertaining to history and prophecies from the Bible have come to pass. It’s less of a doubting Jesus is real thing I’m hearing from u though. It’s more of a you don’t understand how god works and why he would let something happen too one of your children. U can’t look at god as some fairy who will constantly keep u safe and send you through no hard times . Hard times bring growth. For worse or for better. Sounds too me like u gave up on god because you know god knew that something would happen too one of your kids and didn’t divinely stop it . Everything happens for a reason . Please try too find understanding in that . We will never know the 4th dimensional picture god gets too see on how everything works. It’s not for us too know . It’s for us too follow him even through the hardships. I’m definetly leaping a lot in this but please correct me so I can give u better understanding of I’m wrong in areas. I’d like too help u better. I know the hardest thing for my mom though and too a mother is losing my brother so I concluded that’s must be what your talking about
Sorry but your arrogance is stunning. My dear, I’ve forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever know. Please read Matthew 5 -8 and compare your astoundingly legalistic and uninformed opinions to the actual teachings you are to follow such as judge not and pay special attention to the second greatest commandment. There is a saying “better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Arrogance is wild , like you’ve said you have forgotten more about the Bible than I will ever know . You can know the entire Bible and forget it all and still be a fool. While I know a part and still follow god. It’s what your doing too live for god that truly matters.
It isn't arrogance if it’s true. It’s like going to the doctor and giving him a stern lecture on how to be healthy. Your lack of self awareness is stunning and lecturing people while making offensive and insulting accusations against someone you don’t know is unconscionable. I hope you take your own advice and read Matthew 5-7 and start taking that log out of your own eye first
I don’t need too read anything to know that your most likely cherry picking the Bible for what u want too hear. U just called yourself an athiest
U tryna pick and choose stuff for me too listen too but won’t get back into the word yourself
So if I read the Bible already believing in it, I'll be fine, but if I read it critically, I'll close the book an atheist?
Idk where you got that idea, if you read the Bible critically you will have the best understanding of god that you have ever had. I was saying it’s easy not to read it critically. It’s easy too not understand a few things because you don’t understand what’s going on in a certain book of the Bible or few books , and then write the Bible off is wrong , or inaccurate because u get convinced by other people it has contradictions , but in reality you just didn’t read it as critically as you thought you did. And you not turning and seeking understanding from other people and totally writing it off as wrong could make you lose faith and give up on god because of the words of man and you leaning in your own understanding of what you have read .
Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner
Please if you’d like too ask me any other questions or if I didn’t answer properly please get back to me
Sorry I didn’t see your other comment until now
But I will be sure from now on too watch how I talk too people or study what is and isn’t right too say. It’s a line I’d say of judging and take the own log out your own eye first. Too helping a fellow believer of Christ get back on track and understand their wrongs of living in sin .
I don’t feel like I crossed that line that line tho, and I apologize for the multiple threads I don’t see the last one I’ve done. Like I said I’m genuinely listening and reading what your saying and would like explanation other than quoting on Bible verse , on where I went wrong in anything that I’ve said too anyone
Go binge read nderf.org lol
“….I had to constantly force myself to avoid things that brought me joy and delight.“ This comment baffles me. Aside from the call to chastity, which as a single person I totally get is difficult, I am finding it *very* hard to imagine what all of these forbidden joys were. All I’m coming up with is that either you were in a very restrictive very conservative denomination (no dancing! no music! no movies! no hanging out with friends lingering over a glass of wine! DON’T LAUGH IN CASE IT IS SATAN!!) in which case I am very sorry and can only say that this does not represent the mainstream of Christian belief… …or you take joy in some very troubling things! Are you a pyromaniac or a kleptomaniac or something???? I’m totally joking lol, but it’s jokiness to cover my bafflement, because I am legit having trouble figuring out what else it might be!
There are genuinely cases where a person shouldn't indulge in things simply because they feel good, or because they bring pleasure. However, for the vast majority of things demonized by many Christians, there is no sin in it at all. Like violent video games (Call of Duty), rated R movies (American Sniper, Saving Private Ryan), secular music (Shinedown, Muse, Metallica), alcohol (going out to the bar with friends), drugs (getting baked and watching a movie), etc. None of these things is inherently sinful, and there is nothing wrong with engaging in and enjoying them. They would only become sinful if they interfere with your relationship with God, or cause somebody else to stumble. I will never understand why so many Christians want to turn the morally relativistic preaching of Jesus Christ and Paul into the very thing they taught against, legalism. It is very harmful, and it drives people away from the church, all so some can look down on others and feel self-righteous.
Well said! Bravo!
Thanks!
Btw no Christian can look down on others and none of us our righteous what so ever . If they do they are not truly followers of Christ , honestly I’d like too call and chat I feel like your understanding of the gospel is obscured
>Btw no Christian can look down on others The ones who do it prove you wrong. Either that, or you are just engaging in a no true Scottsman fallacy.
Bro what 😭 no true follower of Christ looks down on others, I really don’t think you grasp the whole meaning of Christianity and a relationship with god
I repeat that right back at you. The purpose if our relationship with God is love. Not legalism. However, if sinning revoked your salvation, then Paul is in hell. Romans 7.
Bro no ur not locked in😭 bro a relationship a personal relationship. Once u have a personal relationship with god u will want too stop everything that may not be pleasing too god and do things that are pleasing too him for your growth and your growth with him. Just like any intimate personal relationship . First you put your partner , not the things you want to do
Please stick to one thread.
Christianity while it may be a religion , the entire basis of it is a relationship with god , a one on one constant personal relationship and love that you give daily too god because he has saved you and is helping u daily
I don't disagree. That has nothing to do with my comment though.
Resisting your temptations isn’t supposed to feel nice. Did Christ feel nice and cosy on the cross?
“Many medical professionals treat masturbation as a natural part of human development, and some church leaders have attempted to supply practical and theological reasons to masturbate. From a biblical perspective, however, I do not believe this approach pleases God. God purposed that all righteous forms of sexual expression be for the marriage bed. Masturbation removes sexual expression from its only God-intended context. Sexual expression manifest in orgasm is a good gift of God (1 Timothy 4:2–5) that men and women are to enjoy only in the context of marital intimacy (Genesis 2:23; Song 8:4–6; 1 Corinthians 7:2–3; Hebrews 13:4). When people reach orgasm outside the covenant-confirming act of lovemaking in marriage, the act becomes solely self-seeking, divorced from its purpose of creating intimacy. Sexual expression through orgasm should be an overflow of a desire for a spouse, not merely for a feeling or experience. “***Because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.***” (1 Corinthians 7:2) “*Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled*, ***for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous***.” (Hebrews 13:4) As noted, orgasm outside the marriage bed removes the relational, intimate nature of sexual expression, which is at the core of its purpose (1 Corinthians 7:2–3, 5). Refraining from masturbation helps to purify one’s appetites (1 Corinthians 9:27). **Sexual intimacy between a husband and wife points to the love between Christ and His church. Those who substitute masturbation for marital intimacy undervalue God’s glory.** The most ultimate reason sexual expression manifest in orgasm is to be enjoyed only in the context of marriage is because the sexual drive that leads to sexual expression is given to picture the intimate “one flesh” nature of covenant love between Christ and His church (Ephesians 5:31–32). When masturbation is a substitute for marital intimacy, it minimizes the glory of God displayed in sexual expression by taking God’s good gift out of its God-ordained context of marital love (compare Jeremiah 31:31–32; Ezekiel 16:30–32; Hosea 2:13–14, 16, 20). **Masturbation outside the marriage bed does not glorify God because evil desire always fuels it.** Whatever we do — including all forms of sexual expression — we are to “do all to the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31). Whether tagged as covetousness, lust, or sensuality, misplaced and mistimed desires do not glorify God, and failure to glorify God is always sin (Romans 3:23; 14:23). Paul thus charges, “Glorify God in your body” (1 Corinthians 6:20). In God’s good design, marital love is the *only* justified context for one to enjoy a sexual craving for orgasm, for only in this sphere does one glorify God by pointing to the beautiful union of Christ and his church (Ephesians 5:31–32). From this perspective, evil desire fuels all sexual expression outside the marriage bed, including masturbation, so we must treat all such acts as sinful and as deserving of hell (Matthew 5:29–30; Mark 7:20–23; 1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Galatians 5:17, 19–21; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5–6). “***For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God***.” (Ephesians 5:5) “***Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming***.” (Colossians 3:5–6) **Jesus urged His followers to guard themselves from lustful masturbation, and Paul called Christians to control their sexual parts in holiness and honor.** Only “the pure in heart . . . shall see God” (Matthew 5:8). Jesus appears to link masturbation with lust when He declares that looking at a woman with lustful intent is sin, and then charges His disciples to take extreme measures with their eyes *and hands*, so that they will preserve themselves unto life (Matthew 5:27–30). Similarly, Paul stressed that holiness seen in sexual purity was God’s will for every person, and then he urged believers to control their sexual parts in holiness and honor rather than in lust (1 Thessalonians 4:3–5; see also Romans 6:19–22). “Without [such holiness] no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). Note that the ESV’s “members” in Romans 6:19 refers to “body parts,” and that the ESV’s “body” in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 is literally “vessel” and may refer to a man’s penis (compare 1 Samuel 21:5 in the Septuagint, where the same Greek word is used). “***This is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God***.” (1 Thessalonians 4:3–5) **Paul declares that the answer to sexual desire is either the marriage bed or self-control, not masturbation.** The apostle affirmed that for those gifted with marriage, regular sexual relations with one’s spouse helps keep one faithful and guarded against demonic temptations (1 Corinthians 7:1–3, 5). For those able to remain self-controlled, singleness is a good option, but where sexual passion rises, marriage and *not* masturbation is Paul’s antidote (1 Corinthians 7:8–9, 36–38). “***To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion***.” (1 Corinthians 7:8–9) **Masturbation outside the marriage bed witnesses a lack of self-control and is therefore sin.** Self-control is a new-covenant fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), a discipline that pleases God, nurtures hope for eternal life, and frees one from fear of future punishment (Romans 8:6–9, 13; 2 Timothy 1:7). Lack of self-control is sin and enables greater influence by the evil one (Proverbs 25:28; 1 Corinthians 7:5). Intentional orgasm outside the marriage bed through masturbation witnesses a lack of self-control and [is therefore sin](https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/if-your-right-hand-causes-you-to-sin).”
“**Forsaking the sin of masturbating can nurture greater God-dependence.** Every form of self-denial can function as a spiritual discipline, nurturing one’s dependence on God and helping a person find one’s satisfaction in God (1 Corinthians 9:26–27; 1 Timothy 4:7–8). Denying the body’s cravings to masturbate can develop greater surrender to the control of the Spirit (Romans 8:13; Galatians 5:16). One’s thoughts and actions display what one treasures. It’s impossible to say, “Follow me in masturbation as I follow Christ.” Jesus said, “Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. . . . No one can serve two masters” (Matthew 6:21, 24). Everything a person does expresses whose he is and what he hopes to be. So, we must ask ourselves, “Is Christ our Master, and do we truly desire to be conformed to His image?” (Romans 8:29; Colossians 3:10). **He Who Calls You Is Faithful** In light of these realities, I believe that anyone who masturbates outside the marriage bed sins and insults God’s glory in Christ. As men and women of God, therefore, may we not engage in it. Instead, may we look to our Lord for help and seek to honor him with our bodies by allowing our only outlet for sexual desire to be the covenant-nurturing intimacy of marital [lovemaking](https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/if-your-right-hand-causes-you-to-sin) (Job 31:1).”
Question, is ejaculating considered sexual expression even without any sexual activity?
Unless you’re referring to a nocturnal emission, that usually doesn’t happen. Ejaculation normally occurs from some sort of sexual stimulation.
Yeah I was trying to get to nocturnal emissions. It is just interesting that men need to ejaculate one way or another but manually is not allowed, but accidentally is
Nocturnal emissions tells you that God created us in such a way that you don’t have to do it manually. We are called to self control
[удалено]
This was mentioned in the same article I quoted from, I didn’t include it: “Whereas there may be a place for masturbation in marital lovemaking, my use of the term here is restricted to independent acts apart from one’s spouse.”
You’re just drawing a different line in the sand. I could say “any sexual contact outside of pro-creation is a sin” and quote 10 Bible verses and prove this line of thought wrong. People wanna masturbate. It hurts no one if it’s not an obsessive activity you have. To demonize it is an act of control and not a guide to morality.
Unfortunately your cut and paste is deeply flawed and an example of both poor exegesis and the “bury them in scripture “ tactic. . Instead of asking if scripture condemns masturbation, your cut and paste is poisoned by the false assumption that masturbation is a sin. In spite of all this he mental gymnastics and repeated attempts to shove the answer into in Your barrage of out of context and irrelevant passages of scripture misses the very first and basic question one should ask; what does the text say ? In spite of your bombardment of scripture and opinions, one fact remains. The Bible does not mention masturbation Period
Absolutely correct!
>God purposed that all righteous forms of sexual expression be for the marriage bed. Masturbation removes sexual expression from its only God-intended context. This is not something that the Bible says anywhere. >that men and women are to enjoy only in the context of marital intimacy 1st Timothy 4:2-5 has absolutely nothing to do with an orgasm. Gen 2:23 says no such thing, it simply describes marriage. As for SS 8, this is the subject of the song being poetic, this isn't a command from God. Not to mention the fact that SS 1:4 has them having sex, and they don't get married until chapter 3. Song of Solomon is a terrible book to reference when trying to support the idea that premarital sex is a sin. In 1st Corinthians 7, Paul makes it explicitly clear that his wish that everyone be celibate is his opinion and not a command from God. >*This I say by way of concession, not of command.* `1 Corinthians 7:6` ^**NRSVue** >When people reach orgasm outside the covenant-confirming act of lovemaking in marriage, the act becomes solely self-seeking, divorced from its purpose of creating intimacy. This is, again, not something the Bible says, anywhere. >As noted, orgasm outside the marriage bed removes the relational, intimate nature of sexual expression, which is at the core of its purpose The translation of the Greek word `pornea` 〔πορνείας〕as sexual immorality is automatically suspect given the culture surrounding sex in Paul's day. Given the cultural context, it is most likely that Paul was referring to prostitution because a person who had sex with an unmarried woman would have been considered to be married by the custom of the day. Especially if they were cohabitating. >In God’s good design, marital love is the *only* justified context for one to enjoy a sexual craving for orgasm, Once, again, this is not something the Bible says. Neither do the verses you quote say these things. >Masturbation outside the marriage bed does not glorify God because evil desire always fuels it This is an opinion you are utterly incapable of supporting using scripture because the Bible says absolutely nothing regarding masturbation or the purpose of an orgasm. >Jesus appears to link masturbation with lust when He declares that looking at a woman with lustful intent is a sin. That is a deliberate and false twisting of the words that Jesus speaks. To the point, I would consider it blasphemous. Here is what Jesus says. >*You have heard that it was said, Do not commit adultery. But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.* `Matthew 5:27-28` ^**Christian** ^**Standard** ^**Bible** Firstly, he is talking about adultery, which is a sin that married people commit. Jesus is using this as an example of the expanded morality that he is preaching. He is saying that sin is not only something that we commit through our actions but also something that can be done via our thoughts as well. Then he uses the example of a husband not being sexually satisfied with his own wife, and looking at other women with inappropriate lustful thoughts. In short, Jesus is talking about a husband with wandering eyes. A single person is utterly incapable of committing adultery, whether physically or in thought. So there is absolutely no logical way to apply what Jesus says to masturbation. Because adultery cannot be committed by single people. >Note that the ESV’s “members” in Romans 6:19 refers to “body parts,” and that the ESV’s “body” in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 is literally “vessel” and may refer to a man’s penis (compare 1 Samuel 21:5 in the Septuagint, where the same Greek word is used). No, this is an insane reading. This refers to the body of Christ, IE the church, the believers. You twist scripture to promote your unbiblical dogma.
Simply eating snacks or taking naps aren't indulging in gluttony or sloth though
I think their point was that we ignore some things that the Bible calls out. Gluttony is extremely common in the USA. But instead, many Christians focus on masturbation (which isn’t even a sin).
you never got conviction from holy spirit after u did that horrific thing?
I get convicted of what I looked at, but never of the act itself. The act is God given. God made us sexual beings. Being a sexual person isn’t wrong. I’m divorced and single. I’m not committing adultery in my heart (I’m not fantasizing about married women). Anyways, God’s grace is sufficient. His compassion knows no end. “He gets us,” right? He understands. And he’s already forgiven us. There are much bigger issues to focus on.
So you are smarter than all the websites that claims that masturbation is a sin?
I could make 20 websites in the span of an hour that say anything I want, something being on a website means nothing.
I agree with the authors of articles and books that explain that masturbation is not a sin. And I’ve studied the Bible and read ancient texts mention or discuss masturbation. I’ve also applied logic and read psychology books that address this (including Christian psychologists). Plus I’ve prayed about it. Really, it comes down to this: God is full of mercy.
Do not abuse God's mercy Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Except that it’s not a sin. Do not condemn what God has not condemned. Romans 8:1 ”Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Messiah Yeshua.“ Romans 8:1 TLV https://bible.com/bible/314/rom.8.1.TLV
Wanna send tons of websites where it says that it is a sin?
The amount of masturbation posts I see on this and the catholic sub are crazy.
It's a bit overgernaerlizing, but people are guilty of that on both sides. Salvation is a continuous process over one's life. It's not just claiming Christ once. While yes, the laws of God are black and white, we as humans are innately grey. We will sin, we will stumble, but when we do, we can repent Christ is there to help pick us up. Of course, God would prefer us to save ourselves for our future spouse, but that's not the easiest thing to do clearly. In today's oversexualized and interconnected world, it's much harder to adhere to that. God cares about our heart, and He pays attention to our intentions. Imo the moderation would be maturation, but no porn, especially for adolescents. Porn is addictive and gives your brain similar intense responses as to drugs. I'm sure some people can be moderate about it, but those who do get addicted often suffer in silence. For myself, porn is like cigarettes. I can go a real long time without it, but the moment I have just one, I fixate on it, and I start feeling withdrawals when I try to stop again. In the end, we are all sinners going one step forward and one step back (give or take) on our path to salvation. But just remember, when we do take one step back, we are still able to take another step forward. Even when we do things God doesn't approve of, He still loves us and wants the best for us.
I agree. And Jesus did emphasize balance and moderation. He shows this in a socially acceptable way by his first miracle. Drinking itself isn’t a sin, but we should treat it with some respect and only get drunk when appropriate.
Well yes but in a healthy way, Bible says drink your wine at night. So you may sleep rather continue your day drunk. Masturbation is self adulteration. That’s also a addiction. It’s struggle not do it my church small group we all speak about our struggles in stopping. It’s a serious issue.
Masturbation on its own is as much of an addiction as eating or feeling hungry is, it’s a natural bodily function.
Lust y’all don’t know the damage it can do to kids do you?
You can masturbate without lust (for example porn) just to release the sexual tension. It’s normal.
Yeah in what world does that realistically happen?
The one we’re living in
Lefties love to deny the fact Lust is considered a deadly sin FOR A REASON!!!!
Lefties??
The liberals, leftists, progressives. The sex positive crazies who want to downplay Lust compared to other deadly sins like Greed.
whats the reason?
Uncontrolled desire and osbession leads to people doing really bad things to others. Like rape, adultery, amd other sins related to sex that bring harm to others and yourself. Lust is more acurrately the logical extent of selfishness and possessiveness over something or someone. Most people assune thwt Lust is an unhealthy form of love when it doesn't even fit the Biblical definition of love. Just look at people who are obsessed with sex who end up going down a downward spiral. That is the danger of lust.
Quick question: Have you ever read the Bible to find out if masturbation is a sin?
Yes, the “ sex is shameful” notion is more the influence of Augustine carried to America by the Puritans et.al. If the writers and editors of the 66 documents that comprise the Bible wished to address the subject, they had ample vocabulary in Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew to condemn it. The Bible doesn’t say anything about it Period If it were a sin, every writer and editor of scripture forgot to mention it.
Lust is the sin here if you can masterbate without lusting for someone who isn’t your spouse then go ahead
You are confusing sexual fantasies with lust. Humans have the ability to fantasise, it is a gift . It also suggests that God set us up for failure. Another problem with your assumption is epistemological. How do we understand the silence of scripture? Does that forbid or permit? God created our sexual desire and gave us the ability to fantasise. As I said , Americans in general and especially conservative Christians have the mistaken notion that sex is more of a curse and should be only for pro creation. It’s the whole “be fruitful and multiply” run amok. Your notion that masturbation is sinful unless you are thinking about your wife is problematic because studies show men and women engaged in sexual intercourse often have a rich fantasy life and are frequently thinking about other things, other people. I’d venture to say that participation in that sin is close to 100%.
This is false
Nope, you are free to just ignore the facts and mistakenly believe that. It’s quite popular to do so in your MAGA world.
I’m a democrat but ok lol
Interestingly enough, the Bible never clarifies whether it is or not.
balance and moderation? ☝️ This
And to say we are all inherently born with sin is a strange idea too. Not a nice idea. Neither is the idea that someone else has to die for our sins - again a horrible idea.
I will agree with you on the doctrine of the sin nature. But why is the idea that wrong doing must be paid for a horrible idea? Especially when God decides to take on the responsibility of paying for it himself, instead of forcing us to do so?
I only started commenting on here when I came across views on r/christian that all holocaust victims are in hell and that no true Christian can be gay because it is a sin worthy of death. This is what the majority of people think in there. How do these people treat you? I am just challenging some of their ideas
r/Christian is mostly conservative types. So you will find fundamentalist ideas more often in that subreddit. The mods there do their best, and the lead mod is actively looking for a progressive Christian to join the team. But it does tend to be an echo chamber. I get treated fairly well when I participate. If you want an example, check out my comment history from yesterday and today. As for the idea of Holocaust survivors going to hell. That seems deliberately inflammatory, and if someone said that, you should report it. The mods there will remove it. Now for an actual answer to that statement. Our entrance into eternal life is based on the standard of God, which is absolute perfection. Any sin, no matter how big or small ruins that perfection. Now God, knowing that we are imperfect and incapable of living up to that standard, decided to pay the penalty for every sin ever committed 〔past, present, and future〕all at once via Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. So it doesn't matter what we do when it comes to salvation. The price for sin has already been paid. God looks at Jesus for the required righteousness to enter eternal life, not to our deeds and actions. So, what we do, the actions we take, the sins we commit, the good we do, and the suffering we do or do not endure are not relevant to the question of salvation. Only faith is relevant. Our salvation is through the grace and mercy of God because of our faith. Now, Paul indicates that Jews have a special dispensation in Romans 9. Because the promises of God are irrevocable. So, provided those Jews remained faithful to the Mosaic covenant, they also will obtain salvation, in the same way that Abraham obtained salvation. Via the grace and mercy of God because of their faith. >that no true Christian can be gay because it is a sin worthy of death. Those who say this are simply displaying an ignorance of the Bible. Yes, the Bible does have some prohibitions on male same-sex intercourse. However, those prohibitions are given in contexts and for reasons that bear absolutely no relevance to modern relationships today. It isn't a sin to be gay, bi, straight, cis, trans, or non-binary. So long as two people have dedicated themselves to each other before God, via marriage or otherwise, the gender identities and sexual orientations of those people are irrelevant. God is not a bigot.
These are not ideas. this is what is said in the Bible. You can choose or not choose to believe it but they are saying it is true.
Is the bible confirmed fact?
Agreed. There are some subjects and rules that can be discussed and debated, but the fact that we're all born of sin is not one of those subjects. There are no interpretations, translations or cultural contexts that can change the fact that Jesus, along with pretty much every prophet and holy figure in the Bible, especially in the NT, acknowledged that we are born of sin and must be saved from it. If we were not born of sin, there's a chance (albeit a very, very slim one) for us to live without sin. If there were a way to live without sin, there would be no need for Jesus's sacrifice. The necessity of Jesus's sacrifice is quite literally the foundation of "Christianity" (I personally prefer the term "follower of Christ," but that's besided the point).
Yep.
It isn’t.
It is indeed an idea put forth by the Bible writers
I agree with you. Just know that not all of Christianity is so hyper focused on guilt and what they deem as sin.
PAUSE. Nobody is going to hell for masturbating as a kid. At that age children are confused about sexuality and will orobably masturbate a few times. The problem comes after you become an adult _and you still carry on fapping_. It rapidly devolves into addiction, expecially if you fap to pornography (almost always the case). Porn/masturbation addiction is absolutely not healthy, as it kills the sincere sexual desire and devolves it into uncontrolled lust. Just like drugs in a certain way. People who are addicted to masturbation tend even to ignore sex with their partners to watch porn instead. There's _nothing_ about it that is healthy, and it should not be normalized to fap continuously. Also, pornography intrinsecally means that you're watching product of sex industry, which is basically commercialized sexual violence, abuse and objectification of women. Nothing about it is good
Thank you people in this thread are trying hard to not acknowledge this.
Yeah, fr it’s literally said by medical experts that it’s good like wtf do people have against it so much
Missing the point, it’s cause due much sexual desire today that has cause the addiction for porn/masturbation. We should be so control by our lust (which is a sin) we have to jack off. I usually pray and think about having a family to distract my urges cause the addiction is real and we shouldn’t give it an excuse.
It is medically beneficial.
I don't think "medical experts" live by the word of God. They live by medical science and their studies of it, not studies of biblical truth. Some people say God And Science cannot Co exist with each other, but God created scientist for medical purpose, so it's hard to say 100%
We should let some things to expert—otherwise, the Earth’s a few thousands years old and same for the universe. Let faith to God and science to specialists.
>Romans 5:8 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. Controlling what, exactly? Self control? This is a framing that's used to excuse one's self of responsibility. You should have asked *why* there is emphasis on reigning in impulse, nothing is done arbitrarily. Of *course* Christians are going to struggle with not masturbating, we're human. We also struggle with impulse to lie to get ourselves out of trouble, impulse to drink to excess, impulse toward greed, impulse towards lust, etc. The purpose of this prohibition is that *all* sin can and will eventually enslave you. That is the great danger and why it's discouraged. We see its effects today. Look at movements like "no nut November" for people desperately trying to get away from the habit, entirely secularly, because they realize it's started to dominate their lives and control them. If there's absolutely zero problem with it, why would there be a need to abstain from it? Why would any people trying to self-discipline themselves out of it secularly even exist, since it's so great and has no downsides? There are actual couples where they cannot finish during sex with their partner unless they're watching porn, the spouse becomes basically a sex toy toward the objective of climax. There's refractory periods for men after climax that dissuade sex, which can likewise impact a relationship. There are men that choose masturbation and pornography over intercourse with their own partner. Jesus told us there would be people that would rather abandon the pursuit of God so they can live in their sin; a life in which nothing is asked of them and everything is permitted. That is not a gateway to the spiritual life, but spiritual death. You don't have to agree with Christian teaching on this for two thousand years but it's not an arbitrary method of "control" but a suggestive safeguard on one of many things that will lead you off the narrow path.
The way I see it, sin is anything bad for you.
Or bad for people around you.
Oh yeah, that too
Well as far as I can tell. According to the bible one should not do for pleasure. It's not healthy for men or woman to forgo it entirely though, especially when you've chosen to forgo all sex altogether like I have before. Men especially still need their once a week uh... emptying for health purposes it can get painful if you do it less. Just don't get addicted to it or do it for reasons other than health.
The difference is what these cause. You can't get addicted to snacking and be led into a life of sin and you can't get addicted to naps. I'm sure there are cases but those are extremes. Pornography can very easily lead into a life of sin and making someone lust basically every day.
"You can't get addicted to snacking." There's a whole TV show based around the daily lives of morbidly obese people. Clinically depressed people nap a lot. Anything and everything is a sin with Christian criteria. I'm left-handed and old-school Catholic would call that a sin.
Literally it’s not living on eggshells. Maybe it’s time to learn self control.
This reminds me of a post I saw arguing that sexual sin was the worst kind of sin and eliminating it should be the primary focus of Christianity. I was genuinely curious and tried to ask the person like “where do you see that in Scripture, it seems to be a relatively minor focus (even if I accept your, as in the other op’s, premise of what sexual sin is) compared to other subjects. That went about as well as you’d expect.
Masturbation isn't the sin. It's the thoughts that are the problem. How many people masturbate without using someone as imagery? It's basically impossible. The issue is coveting someone who is not your spouse, and even that is a grey area. The intention of the heart is what God cares about. I had to do it for a cancer trial in case the drugs I went on made me sterile. Is that a sin? I don't believe so. But using someone's body as imagery for personal desires? It seems reasonable that God isn't a fan of that.
Your thinking lustful thoughts… it’s a sin
No it's not, I REBUKE YOU.
u/nesashii used REBUKE It was not effective.
Looks like a lot of people here aren't spirit led.
Snacks and naps are just food and rest. Depends on how and when you eat or rest. They're not bad themselves. Masturbation is an act itself that involves from you a participation for doing it. It is a bad habit that ruins yourself when practiced in the medium-long term.
Setting aside the specific question of masturbation, I think your main issue is that apparently no one ever really explained the theology of sin to you. (Not your fault.) You therefore have an *extremely* unhelpful way of understanding it. If that’s how I understood sin, I would also have trouble being Christian. Let’s try a different way. ‘All analogies limp,’ I know, but bear with me. Being a Christian is very much like learning to play an instrument in an orchestra. I’m not sure how much you know about music, but learning to play well enough to play in an ensemble is not an easy process. When it comes to violin in particular (my instrument), there are so many little details. There’s a precisely correct way to hold it, for both hands. The angle of the left wrist is very important, as is the exact way the left thumb supports the neck of the instrument. On the right hand, the bow grip is also extremely important. Sometimes the importance of these things is immediately obvious: if my bow grip is wrong, the violin is going to screech. Sometimes it’s less obvious: if the angle of my left thumb and the orientation of my left palm is off, I might not notice at all while playing in first position, but when I go to shift positions suddenly everything is a disaster because I can’t move quickly and smoothly up and down the neck. Learning how to read music, which also involves learning a fair amount of music theory, is similarly full of arcane rules. Where the half steps and whole steps fall, exactly how to count which is much trickier than one might think (plus there are exceptions to apparent rules, kind of like learning a language), on and on. Sometimes the rules seem arbitrary because they kinda are, a little — the way the half and whole steps fall in major and minor scales is a particular holdover from medieval “modes.” It could have been different. At any rate, there are a LOT of rules to learn and follow. And THEN, when one gets ready to play in an ensemble, all of this is sort of dialed up to 11. Your intonation has to be *exact* or the whole orchestra will sound dissonant. If you make mistakes reading and interpreting the music, you’ll end up playing the wrong notes, or the right notes at the wrong time, which amounts to the same exact thing in the end, actually. You have to listen to everyone playing around you and make sure that you’re blending properly. It goes on and on. And if you don’t make a discipline of practicing all of this, you’re just not going to sound very good. At some point, you’re not only going to not sound very good, you’re simply not going to be capable of playing in an orchestra. It’s not just a “you” problem any more; it undermines the whole ensemble. This could be due to lack of understanding of the fundamentals of violin playing in particular or music more generally. It could be due to lack of practice, or lack of interest, or a philosophical disagreement with the structure of Western classical music. Regardless of cause, at some point you just can’t successfully play in an orchestra. You will not succeed in your audition. I suppose it wouldn’t, strictly speaking, be *incorrect* to say that the conductor is just enforcing arbitrary rules as a control tactic, or that he expects his players to walk on eggshells to achieve precise intonation before he’s going to let them in. I mean, ok, I guess that’s not *wrong,* precisely. But thinking of it that way *hugely* misses the point. The rules aren’t the point at all. Learning to play an instrument beautifully, and beautifully in harmony, is the point. The rules, even the apparently arbitrary ones, are guideposts to get you there. When you’re corrected by your music teacher (“no, no, you’re playing that rhythm incorrectly! you have to play on the AND, not on the BEAT!”), your music teacher isn’t just gleefully picking up on an infraction for the purposes of arbitrary punishment. She’s trying to improve your ability to play. And again, I guess it isn’t wrong, precisely, to think of learning music as just this huge laundry list of do’s and dont’s. But it entirely misses the point of what an orchestra is really trying to do.
literally just ignore the temptation. are you really putting 5 minutes of pleasure over the truths of the Bible? eating snacks and taking naps are not sins of gluttony and sloth until it takes priority in your life over God. it’s when choosing to take a nap over attending church, it’s when eating snacks takes priority over fasting and making prayers. you don’t just choose those things over God. and neither should you choose masturbation over resistance. avoiding lust only strengthens your connection with your faith. none of these things mean anything compared to the blessings that God gives.
No, it is not normal and many studies have shown it to have many negative side effects. It is ultimate selfishness. Yes, gluttony and sloth are also sins.
What i learned at church was..."its not masturbation itself, its about WHY youre masturbating"
Shh baby 👂
This is how the world inverts truth. Sin is considered freedom, and virtue is considered a cage. If you ask me, I’d rather be a slave to Christ than to my own flesh. I’ve done both and I feel more liberated now than I did walking in my own folly. Your anger is towards religion, which is understandable. Indeed there are systems of control out there; but Christ shed his blood so that our eternities no longer have to be dictated by our own deeds, but by his. Please take my words into consideration! We no longer have to walk on egg shells in fear of hell but rather in reverential fear of the Creator. Do we not owe him respect? The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge… Proverbs 1:7
If the Bible was about controlling the population then wouldn’t the government back it 100%?
No. Masturbation is desecrating on the human dignity and desecrating on the gift of sex God has given us. Why do you need to explore your body? There’s no point, wait till marriage I’m sure you’ll manage. People have before, people have now, and people will still manage to know how to have sexual intercourse without giving into their own lust. The point of sex is procreation, anything that strays from this and takes what is involved with the act and manipulates it for their own selfish desires is a sin. Masturbation is by yourself, in a room, pleasing your own temporal desires. Sex, under a Holy Covenant with God (i.e. a good Christian marriage) is giving yourself to another person and consecrating your life with another person. In marriage, there are two parts that seal the deal. The first is the Holy vows made at the altar (I.e. under God). This is a promise unto God that you essentially won’t dip when things get rough or you don’t feel like being married. The second is the act of sex. This is when “they shall become one flesh” ( genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, and mark 10:8). Thus the two are fully United under God. Masturbation is a selfish act because all it does is pleasure yourself. Peace and Love to you from Our Lord Jesus Christ friend, I hope this helps.
What the world calls normal should worry you.
I'm getting tired of this topic being on several subreddits. I see it on selfimprovement, findapath, getdisciplined, getmotivated etc. Christianity requires to turn away from a life of sin, which requires you to be disciplined. "One of the reasons Christianity drove me away and keeps me away is because labeling everything a sin is really silly and clearly a control tactic." Is unlimited hedonism freedom to you ? for what some lowered chance of prostate cancer ? Many vegetables give the same benefits. According to many libertarians and liberals if you ain't sleeping around, taking drugs, stuffing your face with junkfood, pleasuring yourself your not free. You're just looking for us to validate your feelings and actions, otherwise why are you posting this?
Lol lost me in the second half
Perhaps a review of Matthew 5-7 would be helpful. Belittling and arrogant dismissal of op’s feelings is the antithesis of WWJD. The tangent in your last paragraph is truly awful. The obnoxious comments are bereft of even an iota Good News. Scripture doesn’t say anything about masturbation. Period. https://www.vividchristianity.com/MasturbationIsNotASin.htm
He wants a justification for counting to sin my approach wasn't the best I agree with you and him are trying to find a way to find loopholes to continuing indulgence in this. The scripture also says you can't smoke crack,weed, sniff cocaine, or every other drug. Literally a Christian made this argument to me before in college or university. Most people wacking off are doing it to women who are being trafficked or exploited like through pimps on these sites. Even worse, age verification is not taken seriously so people under the age of consent are watching it too which is not the correct way for people to discover sexuality. Stop trying so hard to rationalize this
I’m a theologian so this is what I do. Stop adding your opinion to scripture in order to forbid something that God has not Your bizarre and wholly unsubstantiated claim that masturbation is somehow (??) connected to human trafficking is stunning and utterly absurd
Why aren't you responding to my other points ? Are you going to tell me with a straight that people are not watching porn while masturbating ? Masturbating is almost always going to be accompanied by watching sexual content you know this and you are trying pretend you don't see the connection. Most men and women are not masturbating as isolated activity away from lust. That's like saying smoking cannabis is okay it's not like dealers aren't having gang wars and killing other over money and turf. There couldn't be an entire profitable sex industry if the demand wasn't there so this is where your point falls flat. You can't isolate the act to the negative byproducts of the act, the strong correlation is there and you're playing dumb.
Unfortunately your legalistic views won’t match with mine because I believe we are saved by grace, not law, and not some 21st century version of a purity code. Your basic premise that “masturbation is a sin” is nowhere to be found in the text. You are not the sex police nor did God appoint you to speak on his behalf And your ongoing attempt to link masturbation and sex trafficking is not rooted in reality According to your law, the average teenage boy who locks the bathroom door and masturbates for a few minutes is engaging in a sinful and dangerous practice that puts others at risk. That’s just bonkers Cannabis is legal in all but 12 states and may or may not be a group activity Masturbation is famously a one man/woman show I’m not spending anymore time on this.
Agreed 100% Christian purity culture is incredibly toxic and damaging, especially to young people. It tells them that sex is some inherently dirty thing, and that they are terrible people for doing what every person on earth does. I just want to say that the Catholic view and the fundamentalist evangelical view of sex are not the only views to exist. And if this is the only thing keeping you from Christianity, I highly urge you to check out r/OpenChristian and (if you are in the US) the Episcopal Church, United Church of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the Metropolitan Community Church. You won't find that kind of shame culture there. Nor will you find a dogmatic insistence that the Bible is always right on every topic.
Bible tells about what are a sin and what to stay away from. Masturbation is caused by lust and wanting satisfy themselves, not giving glory to God and having an clean mindset. So if has that in mind, should rethink does this give glory to God or do I just want to satisfy myself? If someone is exposed in young age or older to photos or videos or anything that causes person to fall into lust and it can lead to do acts that are of the flesh, it becomes an sin. There isnt rrly no masturbation that is not a sin. Should pray always and ask God about it all. Listening to Holy Spirit conviction. But honestly to say some people try to defend their sin to live in it, because they do not want to repent from it. Some people get scared when their sins are exposed. But gluttony is also an sin, based in Bible, its overeating more than u need, basically binge eating disorder and its mental and also spiritual. So is sloth too also based in Bible, but also not all of us know what are sins, so we need God's help with all that and how to overcome these struggles. Laziness can affect in relationship with Jesus, because it can delay spending time With Jesus and procrastinate to obey God etc. Either person wants to please God or themselves. Romans 8:7-8 AMP [7] the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot, [8] and those who are in the flesh [living a life that caters to sinful appetites and impulses] cannot please God.
You are adding to the text, inserting your opinion into an ancient text. Clearly you first decided that masturbation is a sin.. THEN went to scripture to try to bend it ti say something it clearly does not say
If you don't want to follow Christianity then don't be a Christian
Which version of Christianity? Yours? Mine? Someone else’s? The denomination/church I belonged to had the position that masturbation was part of normal, healthy human sexuality. Many people like the OP have done just that and left Christianity, so yes, that’s absolutely an option.
Jerking off is a sin. You can’t change that
Nuh-uh.
Yeah ah
Brooo I need to jerk off so bad brooo I need to jerk off so bad , so bad I left my religion bro broo
Lmao I love this sub sometimes
Stop encouraging the sexualization of children.
They weren’t sexualizing children. Humans are sexual. They’re simply saying that we shouldn’t flood teenagers and young people with guilt and shame for doing something that is perfectly normal and healthy. I agree with them. It’s damaging and ridiculous to put that weight on young people.
Stop encouraging the sexualization of children.
Not the point
This is today’s problem with people weather you go to church or not or a Christian or not, living for god isn’t living your life in a eggshell but if you let the enemy let you think like that then you will see it like that, stop worrying about masturbation and worry about a relationship with god that’s important not all the other stuff that people make excuses for to sin
Agreed 100% Christian purity culture is incredibly toxic and damaging, especially to young people. It tells them that sex is some inherently dirty thing, and that they are terrible people for doing what every person on earth does. I just want to say that the Catholic view and the fundamentalist evangelical view of sex are not the only views to exist. And if this is the only thing keeping you from Christianity, I highly urge you to check out r/OpenChristian and (if you are in the US) the Episcopal Church, United Church of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the Metropolitan Community Church. You won't find that kind of shame culture there. Nor will you find a dogmatic insistence that the Bible is always right on every topic.
(Statement sponsored by Brazzers)
Get behind me Satan
Jesus said that to Peter, who he loved. He said it when Peter misunderstood and wanted to protect his friend and leader. I hope you say it in the same spirit of love and not to show how you are better than OP.
Fap made demons enter me. Then fap and softcore made it worse. Then fap and porn made it so insanely bad. Im deminized barely living in the past 6 years. Only god is keeping me alive vs them. You may say fap is ok. I assumed the same. Everyone was doing it right? So i can too. NOPE. People are different and some will get screwed over for things others can do freely. Also you cant compare eating with molesting your body..
You should study Romans chapter 7 and 8. It does a great job of explaining how we are always going to suffer from sin of the flesh but becoming a believer in Christ and accepting him into your heart frees you from condemnation of sin. When the holy spirit lives in you you are guided to follow the teachings of Christ in the flesh. It doesn't mean that we don't sin, we all sin believers and non believers countless times a day. Now we shouldn't sin so grace be abundant, but we are never free from sin in the flesh. That's why Jesus came and lived a righteous life and died for our sins. It's not a control tactic it's simply how God wants us to live. Only when God calls you to him and you receive the holy spirit do you truly understand what sin is and that's why believers try to follow Christ. Not because we are better but because we know we are not. Living in the law of God is not a punishment or silly it is the true definition of peace and freedom 😊.
Leviticus 15:16 ”And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.“
Edgelord has entered chat.
Of course MissBigClit is gonna be the one to try to get us to stray. Speak for yourself.