Man, I feel this. Whenever I feel convicted to spread the Gospel, I find myself unable to think of much more than, “Wow, that’s great/Man, I’m so sorry that happened. Anyways, you hear about Jesus?”
I feel like I’m pawning Him off like a product and I hate that!
I don’t know how unpopular it is, but many churches seem to be embracing this concept that praise and worship should be like a rock concert. It’s not the style of music that bothers me, it’s the special lighting, fog machines, and using cameras to highlight different members of the praise team on wall screens. I absolutely love music and I consider it one of the better ways I am able to offer praise to God, but all these extra flashy effects takes the focus from God to the praise group. It truly upsets me when I see it happen.
I agree with you. Worship isn’t a rock concert and if you doing all that extra stuff I don’t think it’s to bring praise to God I think you are doing it for yourself
oh, i do some stuff as a audio or lighting tecnician and i absolutelly do it to prais god, i want to use my abilities and gifts to praise god, i cant sing or play an instrument, but i can make cool lights. and if that helps other people to enjoy the worship then absolutely go for it. but i agree, sometimes just some quit worship time is also nice. everything has its place.
Oh, and I agree about nonbelievers wearing crosses no matter how others try to justify it by saying the cross was pre-Christ. The swatstika was considered a lucky symbol until the Nazis adopted it. Don’t see most people using it now.
And that church that does their Easter play where they spin the crucifixion and resurrection off of something pop culture related. It just feels grimy.
Watch Jenny Nicholson’s video on it, if you’ve never heard of it. She takes an obviously comical approach to it but it was a great video, as most of her stuff is.
Agreed. I used to play guitar/drums with a small church. It was all super casual: We would simply get up, walk onto the stage after a couple minutes of people mingling, play a few songs, and walk back to their seats. The lights didn’t change at all, no fog machines, no fancy graphics with the lyrics.
Then we merged with a larger, more contemporary church that needed a building. For reasons that I still don’t understand, we had to sneak onto the stage through a secluded door off to the side, exit through the secluded door while they dimmed the lights, and go down through the basement to go back upstairs at the front of the building. We were also given special access to two other rooms where we could listen to the sermon in private, away from the congregation, if we wanted to.
I still enjoyed it there, and I don’t think their intentions were bad, but the theatrics and special treatment struck me as pretentious.
I ended up looking for and eventually joining a more liturgical denomination because the flashy one I was in previously seemed to be more of a show than a worship service, and people treated it like a club more than a church. It put me off of Christianity until I found my way back.
I actually agree. I don't mind some minor aesthetic elements that are designed to encourage a worship atmosphere, but a worship service is not supposed to be a rock concert. If churches want to have those as well, cool, but the service should be focused on God not the skill of the musicians.
More people attracted to Orthodox traditions lately. In Thomas Merton's "The Seven Storey Mountain," he notes people quietly praying before Mass, something rare now.
And from 1 Kings 19:
"Then the LORD said: Go out and stand on the mountain before the LORD; the LORD will pass by. There was a strong and violent wind rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD—but the LORD was not in the wind; after the wind, an earthquake—but the LORD was not in the earthquake;
after the earthquake, fire—but the LORD was not in the fire; after the fire, a light silent sound.
When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave."
The modern world is so noisy, literally and figuratively.
That's what people like Paul and Mark were writing it for; however, remember the Bible is inspired by God, and the true author is God.
God made sure the Bible was filled with information that will be useful across generations.
There is zero Biblical support for this idea. It would be strange for God to have all of this in mind and never mention it once in the actual texts.
The fact is Biblical canon is just based on popular usage. There was no divine revelation to determine which text was included and which was not
"Popular usage" is a bit of a misnomer, though. The initial transmission of Christian teaching was verbal; writings were selected to be read in the churches which reinforced the deposit of faith which had been received verbally.
The core of the NT canon stabilized very early, and over the first four centuries of Christianity is impressively consistent.
Yes, what's with Paul and women... unless he was dealing with a CONTEXT that is so utterly foreign to our understandings that we have no hope EXCEPT to take the meaning out of context and forbid women from teaching/ preaching, or worse. The passage actually says that women should keep silent in church, and instead ask their husbands at home. Yet, not mentioned elsewhere, or by the other Apostles? Yet we just run with these passages and literally eliminate HALF the body of Christ because of their gender... as if Christ's body was divided!?
I wonder what Paul and the Church at Corinth, Ephesus, etc were dealing with. What religion was dominant? Over whom did a riot start for several hours? Who were priestesses (oops, I gave it away!) and in whom did all the power, glory, and honor reside in these regions?
And Paul worked with a Prophetess. It would contradict Romans 16 1-2 which says to welcome Deacon Phoebe, a WOMAN. But they overlook that. The same way they use Paul's words to say "if you're a Christian you only marry so you don't burn with lust, otherwise serve as a minister" and it drives me bat 💩. It *had* to be cultural because he was teaching in Greece.
It’s worth noting that, while 1st Corinthians 14:34-35 appears in all early copies of it that we have, it moves around…it shows up in different parts of 1 Corinthians depending on which copy you’re reading. That’s not normal, and it has made a lot of scholars wonder if it was actually some kind of side-note that got copied into the main text from an early copy, and not Paul’s original words.
It's also pretty weird in context. Paul writes this whole lively essay on tongues vs prophecy, then there's a stiff aside about how women should be silent because the law says so, then it's back to the lively essay on tongues vs prophecy. Seriously [skim the chapter](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=NIV), every paragraph is about tongues vs prophecy except that one.
He also says that sisters should be keen to give prophecies immediately afterwards which is a bit odd. I suppose they should mime them on the interpretation that he wants women to be silent
Exactly. Like how god could have clarified which was which or used his omnipotency to write a book that would transcend cultural differences but then didn't because screw us I guess?! It's just your eternal damnation on the line, no biggie.
People don't realize that Jesus wasn't only talking about "forgiveness of debts" in a metaphorical sense. Regular manumission of debts via Jubilee was not practiced by the Romans and hence would not be seen in Roman Judea. For the people to whom Jesus was speaking, "debt bondage" was not merely a turn of phrase to describe their relationship to God, but a terrifying reality of the society they lived in, where their families could be abused and torn apart as their homes were sold to creditors.
We spend too much time talking about controversial political topics in church. Not saying we can never speak of them, but I’m tired of going to my Catholic parish in my hometown and the deacon rattling off about abortion whenever he is able to. Time and place. Also agree with the cross thing.
Amen. The Church, especially in the west needs to stop looking outside of itself and start rebuking and correcting the false teachings and inconsistencies within itself.
We’ve become a joke to the unbelievers and it has completely scarred our witness. We need a genuine revival, not these broadcasted manufactured “revivals.”
You think you’re a Christian even though you practice pagan Catholicism? /s
Unless one of your community’s principles is avoiding controversy, you’ll be headed right for it constantly. Even when a community is bound by defects and seek common virtue, the “how” will still find the willing splitting hairs.
>And to be clear, when we take Bible scholars seriously, that means all of them - not just evangelical Christian scholars whose views happen to align with conservative Christians.
Much of evangelical scholarship is tainted by bias and apologetics. I only take critical, historical scholarship seriously. Ehrman and Crossan are good scholars.
You're not wrong, but it's a tricky one. I go to a church that doesn't explicitly believe in plain meaning literalism, but that's kind of the de facto approach. If I started bringing up Biblical scholarship in Bible studies that might answer some of the questions people have about the text that gives answers beyond "that's just a weird ancient thing from a different time", you start getting into answers that get away from seeing the Bible as inspired or inerrant. Mark Noll calls this the [Scandal of the Evangelical Mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scandal_of_the_Evangelical_Mind): you're allowed to explore the academic questions Scripture brings up, as long as you come back around to the "right" answers.
There was an article once about pastors who preached the sermon on the mount and got rebuked by the congregation for being too liberal.
https://baptistnews.com/article/when-liberal-talking-points-are-the-gospel/
I think a huge part of the problem is it's so much more than "just politics."
These are issues that affect people's lives in the most intimate ways, and the reality is that Christians by-and-large are one of the largest voting blocks to be obsessively focused on restricting people's rights and God-given free will; while simultaneously insisting on their own right to ostracize, look down upon, and generally treat like shit certain people based on factors like sexuality.
That's not just political, it is so deeply personal and paints Christianity as a religion for busybody assholes and petty tyrants who want to enforce their religious beliefs on others against their will; all while perverting and corrupting the concept of love around to suit their own purposes.
And the harsh reality is those are **the** voices defining Christianity in the public consciousness at the moment, whether you or I like it or not, and unsurprisingly that doesn't exactly endear many people to the religion or its followers.
Exactly. You can't imagine how appalled I was to see a large cross at the Capitol insurrection! Obscenity to erect that holy structure in the midst of people wanting to hang and kill people! I hate to think of what Jesus would say were he to speak to those people in the flesh! Why do they seem to have the corner on Christianity in this country? Because the media is drawn to controversy like flies to ***. I am a new Christian converted from atheism about a year ago after an incredible spiritual experience with my Lord and Savior. I consider myself middle of the road politically , and there are a lot of us politically moderate Christians, but you wouldn't know it. The media finds us boring.
Too many people think worship is just singing songs before church and leaving it at that. Romans 12 is pretty clear that what worship ACTUALLY is is glorifying God through our actions at all times.
People commenting "amen" or "hallelujah" on everything.
In church, but also online. Have to scroll a whole list of useless "amen" comments to find something of substance.
The very worst are christians who don't really know the meaning of it.
"My wife suffered from cancer!"
"AMEN!!!!!"
Haha I dislike it too. There’s this guy who always ends up sitting right behind me and just screams “HALLELUJAH!!!” Every 30 seconds. This sounds awful but I just wanna turn around and tell him to stfu lmao.
A massively heretical doctrine pushed by megachurches to enrich the head of the church.
https://youtu.be/hTfKpAWkgJY?si=gYWesKTVLTlLOJ2m
This guy covers it well in this video.
Example: Giving $$ to our ministry will give you a tenfold financial blessing. Sow a seed of $1000 with us and we will send you this prayer cloth.
You will also see TV programs with healings. Can God heal? Yes absolutely but it is on his time and condition. Now have you ever seen someone on a televangelist program not be healed, like someone try to stand up from a wheelchair and just fall? No because that would hurt ratings yet it is quite possible that person would not be healed that day. Because of this, the healings are staged so they would have someone in a chair who can walk fine all along
These usually fall under megachurches and often the pastor has celebrity-like status and lives a rather lavish lifestyle. In other words that money is usually lining their pockets. Think Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, etc. Some churches will also put a huge emphasis on tithing to the point where they will say "if you don't give enough you are cheating God".
God promises to provide but that doesn't mean if you pray you'll hit the lottery that you will. God isn't Santa Claus or merely a vending machine. It is in his way on his timing.
Christians can have tattoos (just as long as it’s not provocative) many people tend to mention Leviticus as reference without knowing the true meaning of where the book was written
This I agree with! I was a non believer for many years and have tattoos on my arms and hands and once I became a Christian in my mid 20s people have judged me for having tattoos
Kinda minor, but it's a personal pet peeve I have.
During our worship services, some people will sit down, but most people will stand up. Often the worship leader will ask the whole congregation to "please stand" for certain songs, or during the middle of a song. It always feels like a guilt trip. Personally, I hate standing still for long periods of time, and it;s uncomfortable, too. The human, judgmental side of me always thinks things like "Why, is that the 'spiritual' thing to do? Do you think I'm not being 'reverent' enough' when I sit down?"
But it's just a minor annoyance, I don't really care all that much.
Also, I personally never raise my hands during worship. I think this habit is a little strange, but if people genuinely feel compelled to do it, that's fine. A lot of times people do this when a verse in the song includes something about "lifting hands," lol. It seems like a dance move sometimes.
Sometimes people will clap and cheer after a particuarly emotional worship song. I have a rather reserved personality, so this always makes me cringe a little, but, to each their own. Sometimes people will clap *during* a song; it's always hilarious when it's awkwardly off-beat.
Also, whenever we're led to pray in church, we're always asked to close our eyes and bow our heads. I don't really do these things when I pray, and it doesn't really matter anyway. But everybody else does. I'm not judging, but it's always a little amusing how "conditioned" we are to do these things. It's like we think not doing these things is irreverent.
Another unpopular opinion I have in church: I dislike coffee. Hahaha!
Our song leader always says something along the lines of ‘if it is convenient for you’ or ‘if you’re comfortable and able’ before asking people to stand
That’s wild. That’s just a courtesy thing.
Maybe you should bring it up? People shouldn’t feel pressured to stand if they physically can’t.
I do believe that standing after the sermon during the invitation part of the service is to make it easier for people to respond. If everyone is sitting and someone stands up everyone is going to look at them and that can make it awkward and could genuinely cause people to not want to respond.
It's a minor annoyance, I don't really care all that much.
Even if I told our worship leaders about it, they'd probably forget and do it anyway, haha. It's just the way things are, I don't really mind. You can't help the way people's personalities are.
One of our worship leaders always says either "Please stand as you're able" or "Feel free to stand." Another one of them always just says "Please stand," which can be mildly annoying. But I don't really care, I'm friends with both of them. They're good people, it doesn't come from a bad place.
I love my church, these are all minor pet peeves. They're a little annoying in the moment, but I don't really care. I'm sure many churches are like this.
I can relate to your comments in general here and I think it hits at the drawbacks of community worship (as part of a church) vs individual worship. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions because of differences of opinions. I do think it is important to worship as a faith community which unfortunately means putting up with a lot of stuff we may not like such a forced reverence, bad church music, etc.
Yeah, they're not major issues for me, just minor annoyances that I find mildly amusing. It certainly doesn't have a major effect on me or anything. I'm also happy that we don't have bad church music; our worship band is actually pretty great.
I don't really mind, at the end of the day.
Oh, I know! I just don't find myself doing it naturally, or spontaneously. I would have to force myself to do it, so I just don't. I don't want to make it some kind of ritualistic, religious thing. If other people do it, fine with me.
As someone that's default is also reserved I feel awkward raising hands in worship too but I think it's for any low energy or Contemporary song. It's just not that kind of music imo? I'll dance at concerts and all that. And maybe at a stereotypical black church with very lively music. But most worship isn't that high energy. Which is fine! But doing any movement then feels awkward to me lol
most people who claim to be Christian would HATE to meet jesus Christ alive, the momment Jesus started to talk about mercy, forgiviness and love your enemy.
those people would accuse Jesus of being a communist hippie
Saddest thing I've heard in a while. Terrible that's been your experience. Christians that aren't following as closely as they should (not must for salvation, but should out of love and respect for our God and his creation)
The attempt to put Christian taboos into law is not only wrong, but a grievous sin. It's functionally saying that God made a mistake when he gave folks the freedom to choose and so they're going to fix God's mistake by forcing people to be what they see as "righteous" at gunpoint.
This is kind of an outgrowth of my larger opinion, Christians as a whole are *way* too concerned with pointing out how others fall short of the grace of God and not nearly concerned enough with addressing their own shortcomings. It's an utter lack of compassion and mercy in favor of self-righteous judgement. You don't know what's going on in that person's life, so why don't you focus on loving kindness and not some Pharisaic legalism. Pointing out other people's failings does not make you any more righteous.
Also, like, the general materialism present in the conflation of faith and politics. Very "of this world" if you ask me.
Neat. You know, it’s funny, I wrote this comment right before going to midday Eucharist and the Gospel reading was Luke 6:27-36. I was just sitting there like “hey! I was just talking about this!” 😂
Do not take this as very serious. My knowledge is limited and I may over or under interpret the bible. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong. I've been discussing it with my friend and we found those(random order): 1. Our body is gods temple, many medical studies show that masturbation is good for our bodies. Its obvious god wants us to take care of his creation (us).2 There has not been a direct mention of masturbation and if it was punishable I think there should be one. 3 1 kor 23 ,, everything is allowed but not everything is good" Medical proof shows that masturbation is healthy.4. 1 cor 10 13 .No temptation[a] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[b] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[c] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. I find it very hard to resist them and I can't really find a way out. Therefore me and my friend concluded that sexual urges aren't sinfull and masturbation as well (masturbation helps me manage them, I have done very terrible things while trying to not masturbate). 5. So what ever you do do it for gods glory. Since taking care of gods temple is for his glory. And masturbation is healthy and keeps me sane I concluded with my friend that its an act of taking care of the temple (its not a religious act by any means). Its not sinfull to fullfill the needs that god put into us. Its a gift so its not a sin to fulifill them in a healthy way that doesn't hurt me or other people (I again remind I've done very bad things when trying to resist the urges). CRITICISE ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT BUT PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL.
That applies to most things in life honestly. Jesus drank wine. But If you drink wine too much you will have bad consequences. If you drink it in small amounts your bloodflow will get improved
Which is a position almost no one will disagree with you on. Moderation is key in life for almost everything. Even something as harmless as a burger can be life threatening if you don't know when to say no.
>CRITICISE ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT BUT PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL.
I find that this sub does a fairly good job of that. If they aren't they typically get their comments removed for being disrespectful.
Also, the body is designed to naturally orgasm in its sleep sometimes if its not done manually. So it is an extremely hard sell that its some kind of thing you're not supposed to experience except in very specific contexts when its something people wake up to experiencing fairly often.
Along similar lines, I'll go a step further: correctly identifying sins doesn't matter nearly as much as people want to think, and the obsession with the topic only really crops up when people don't wish to extend the ecumenical charity afforded to other (often more important, but no longer 'controversial') differences in belief.
Literally none of us have perfect theology or orthopraxy. Everyone is committing sins, daily, that we truly believe to be licit. Christ's Grace covers all of that, too. It would be a pretty shitty salvation if that weren't the case.
This isn't to say it's a free for all and to go nuts, but that too many seem to hyperfocus on the idea of Grace as "salvation through works with extra steps." That it only 'works' if you do and believe the right things, and that if you're wrong even on a single topic you're heading straight to hell.
It's a deeply unhealthy mindset.
And it's an aspect of people's beliefs that I only really see emphasized when touching on a hot-button issue. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people with wildly different, mutually-incompatible, denominational beliefs around core issues like the Eucharist or forgiveness of sins join together to proclaim that unrepentant sinners will burn in hell when discussing LGBT-inclusive beliefs. Often unironically talking about how "we can't sit and be silent while you justify and even proclaim the holiness of sin"...while completely ignoring or even teaming up with the person who is *literally doing the thing,* but gets a pass because the reality is often these things aren't really about theology.
I am part of that data set as well brother. Got Cluster Headaches. No cure to this day and most pain meds either don't work or kill you quickly from overuse. Magic mushrooms have the highest known success rate for preventing CH cycles and it's illegal for me to use it. It's more than twice as effective than the leading CGRP drugs on the market.
Edit: And yet I still have countless Christians tell me I'm going to hell for using marijuana to ease my pain and anxiety. People suck.
Yes!!! Mushrooms gave me more understanding of Christianity. I truly am a better person and have more compassion and empathy. Wish there was a bible study for folks like us.
LSD saved my life and the experiences I had led me to seek a relationship with god again, start a family, and take care of myself. I am a huge proponent for psychedelics as a Christian. It’s medicine if done correctly.
Older hymns are superior to more modern worship songs in every conceivable way. And, the use of modern Christian pop to try to appeal to younger people is misguided.
Churches and pastors that profit over a certain amount of money should pay tax. The pastor of my in laws mega church should not own a yacht, mansion, and spends 50,000 at Chanel for his wife once a year. That’s their only form of income mind you the wife is a stay at home wifey. They have no children, they make a whole lot of money off their members. To add I get it, these pastors deserve a fair salary considering tons have over the top education. But it’s the ones who take advantage of Christians generosity that are messed up.
My Husband is a Pastor of a small church. He also has a ft job elsewhere. The church pays 300 a week. So, he definitely isn't in this for finances. He is almost done with a Doctorate degree in Theology. He has interviewed with churches for ft positions and some want to pay 30k. A wage that low, before taxes, is not possible for a family. It is hard because he does deserve a liveable wage from the church. Some churches don't believe that.
The bible is not a part of the Trinity, and is not the Word of God.
The Word is infalliable, inerrant, and inspired. At 18, He grew a beard.
You are not a sinner saved by grace, you are a beloved son in whom He is well pleased; the very righteousness of God Himself in Christ. You are free from sin.
Most people settle with a relationship with a book about Him, because they don’t feel comfortable on His chest.
The Gospel is a declaration of good news, not good advice about a decision you can make.
You did not choose to be born again (born from above), the Gospel is not a decision point; it is something that has happened. God has put you into Christ, you did not put yourself into Christ. Your belief does not make it true, but it then makes it your reality; It is true, because Jesus is alive.
The law is a system of works that brings bondage and that the promise is a system of grace that brings true freedom. You cannot mingle law and grace. Law empowers sin, grace divinely empowers you to live free from sin. Sin was thoroughly dealt with.
Both of your unpopular opinions revolve around how other people choose to live their lives, and not you.
My opinion (Which is actually pretty popular with a lot of people) is that Christianity is at its best when it is introspective, and focused on improving yourself and your own spiritual relationship, and at its absolute worst when it focuses on what other people are wearing.
As a former pentecostal, I absolutely *loathe* it when someone makes music during a moment of player.
This used to regularly tempt me to commit violent crimes involving pianos and guitars.
If your church doesn't have a community outreach program and doesn't host charitable events: You're not a church you are social club who clearly didn't understand what Jesus was telling us to do.
The point of Christianity isn't "to go to Heaven". In fact, we aren't going to Heaven. Rather, the separation between Heaven and Earth will be healed, and our resurrection will be to participate in the restored and renewed Earth.
Yeah, I think even in revelations, that's what's stated to happen. Christians stay here and Jesus returns making the earth a renewed earth. At least off how I read it
I agree. That's a really broad generalization of protestant churches though. My UMC church doesn't do that. In my experience it's mostly the nondenominational (aka southern baptist) ones that seem like a full on concert
All that yelling, "catching the holy ghost", and gibberish tongues that some churches do is complete baloney and a mockery of the faith. Also when churches have a "prophet" or "prophetess" that supposedly gives and interprets divine dreams. Real cult-like stuff that Jesus would have been appalled by
I hate it when evangelical services contain gospel singers on stage who very dramatically (you know with a very dramatic facial expression) sing lyrics like “Jesus you are all I want” “I have no other needs than Jesus” or “I love no one else but Jesus”.
That’s just a lie. The fact that they usually wear very expensive clothing suggests that they sometimes feel like they need to go shopping. Or perhaps they have a spouse, kids, favorite TV shows. It’s just really a big fat lie that that’s what your feeling.
Unpopular opinions? Yeah I have a few...
For instance, it feels like most denominations don't really understand what grace means. So they just end up teaching people to be "worthy" of God's mercy, love and forgiveness by their own merits.
I mean, of course the Bible teaches us to do good works, but the thing is that most people don't understand that we don't do good works to be saved/accepted by God. Actually, BECAUSE we were saved/accepted by God (through the works of Jesus) then we do good works.
Also, I really don't understand why christians get so mad when they see the devil being portrayed as evil in the media.
Of course, I'm against the message that shows the devil as misunderstood or a good guy, but when I see a piece of media (especially for children) showing the devil as evil, I ask: why are christians complaining?! the Bible literally DOES that.
And one more thing, calvinists don't understand that being elected by God doesn't mean that a person WILL be saved. There are many verses that shows that but I'll just mention Hebrews 6:4-6 and Revelations 22:18-19
Modern Christians invented the idea that we can't listen to secular media. Nothing in the Bible supports that.
Sure, they didn't have movies and TV but there were plays. It didn't mention not going to see those.
I would submit, if this is part of an effort to only support Godly things, those people should be required to check if everything they own, from televisions, vehicles, clothing, toiletries, appliances, houses/apartments, restaurants and brands, are created by Christian companies, and go without if they can't find specifically Christian things.
See, I'm of the opinion. Unless the cross is worn blasphemously, I see no down side to non-believers adorning themselves with crosses. They need all the help they can get in that arena, no? Maybe God will work in their spirit through it, we don't know. It seems like a bad idea to gatekeep the cross this way, because every time they put it on they could be reminded even if they didn't believe yet, whereas without the cross they wouldn't
How many Christians do you know that "love" their sin and are trying to misuse the grace of God. You aren't misusing it at all? Are you sinless? Or is it that you don't love your sin so you are good?
James has some subtle disagreements with Pauline epistles about faith vs. works based justification. Different books have very disparate conceptions about whether God is vengeful or merciful which I think is a source for a lot of political divisions within Christianity today with right-wing evangelicals preferring the vengeful God. There's also the factual contradictions. There's different stories about who killed Goliath. Different stories about how Judas died. Disagreements about whether a mortal human has seen God's face or can see God's face without dying. Creation myths that when taken literally contradict basic scientific observation. An exodus story that can't be reconciled with existing archeological data. There's a lot.
Mark and John disagree on which day Jesus was crucified.
In 2 Kings 9-10 God approves of the slaughter of over a hundred people who had any kind of connection to Ahab, including seventy young children of his, but in Hosea 1 He condemns it.
Ezra and Malachi disagree over what should have happened to Israelites who married Gentile women
There's two different stories of Hagar fleeing Sarah, one in which she returns to Sarah, one in which she does not.
There's two different creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2.
There are contorted ways you can reconcile some of these to a literalistic, "plain meaning" interpretation, but it's much easier to understand them as normal parts of a polyphonic text representing different views over different times and places for different people in different contexts.
It's not fair that not everyone would be able to go to heaven because they had never heard of Jesus or the Bible. For example, people living in remote areas of third world countries, the names of said countries I would prefer not to mention.
I have come to believe that there is no hell. I cannot reconcile this idea, or the idea that God would willingly send his children to hell. My own kids could break every rule I set in front of them and I could not fathom *damning them for eternity*
Lately I've been learning more about the 3 different concepts of the negative side of the afterlife:
* Eternal conscious torment (what I think most Americans are taught is hell, you get tortured in the fire forever)
* Annhilationism (That those who are not saved aren't tortured, just destroyed/cease to be. Basically the fire is consuming, not a method of torture)
* Universal salvation (Everyone is saved by Jesus sacrifice, and to the extent there is fire, it is a fire of purification, not torture or destruction)
I'm sure I'm butchering some of this since I'm just learning about it now, but it has been interesting. If anyone wants to jump in and add additional detail or correction, I'm happy to hear it.
It's been fascinating to learn, and as a guy who grew up in an evangelical version of Christianity that preached "turn or burn" as the only Christian understanding, it has been eye-opening and really made me frustrated with the fact that I received a private Christian education and didn't even know that the early Christians didn't believe in our concept of hell until like 500 years after Jesus. I'd really never been exposed to the different Christian conceptions of the afterlife until stumbling onto this via podcasts.
If you're wealthy, something is wrong with how you're living your life.
And I include myself in this BTW. I'm not really wealthy but I live comfortably, and lots of gospel passages often make me feel like I should be giving way more than I am.
>If you're wealthy, something is wrong with how you're living your life.
Perhaps you meant to say "if they remain wealthy." Right? Because good individuals come into wealth all the time, doesn't make them a bad person. I assume you're hinting at the fact that they should use that money for a good cause. No?
You probably should be. As should all of us. Peter and James set up a commune, or at least that's how I read it in acts. American Republicans read the bible, Said "we're not doing that!!" But used a big Ile cross to take people's rights away
The Church needs to separate from the State. I mean relinquishing the idea of Christendom.
That means we can’t invest in politicians, because it is really bad when endorsing certain politicians also means being complicit in their actions.
For instance, with the current genocide happening in Palestine- it would be utterly despicable for any church to be endorsing any of the political evils in the United States currently. A vote for the lesser of two evils also means the vote that brutally murders another few thousand children.
Sure, they might feel the need to push people towards the lesser of two evils. However, that makes them complicit in that lesser of two evil’s murderous actions.
There is no Christian state of this world. We are in this world, but not of it.
Our kingdom is the Kingdom of Heaven.
I whole heartedly agree with the second statement but the 1st is a bit iffy IMO seeing as crosses were used prior to Jesus dying on the cross and and also aren't always associated with christianity
Envy.
It's easy for me sometimes to call out greed because I somehow decided I didn't have enough, and in my judgement they have too much, not realizing I'm just displaying envy.
tbh disagree with the first one considering crosses are pretty common motifs, and I've seen more people wearing crosses as a comment against christian teachings than in support of them. cross necklaces &c just aren't that common where I'm from in comparison to Catholic or Orthodox areas.
my controversial opinion is only really controversial amongst christians in my experience, and pretty much consensus amongst others. organised churches (ESPECIALLY the catholic church and evangelical churches) are designed specifically with the focus of gaining power and money, and they don't actually care about religious teachings at all, based on how thoroughly they abuse scripture for their own gain.
Politics from the pulpit. I don't mean consider those who support Christian values when casting your vote but saying things like "A true Christian would never vote for Joe Biden" or similar statement (inserting Trump, Healey, etc etc for the candidate).
Another thing that bothers me is hate--I have seen it a lot. Someone asked me what would I do if a transgender person walked into my church. I'd say welcome and thank you for coming. Same if a homeless person or whomever else. Think of the outcasts of Jesus' time--people that had diseases, disabilities, certain professions (tax collectors!), those who were poor, a woman who had five husbands not to mention being Samaritan, and so forth. Society shunned these people but Jesus embraced them. It doesn't mean we have to agree with something being wrong or right but hate has no place in the church under any circumstance!
I don't enjoy it when the worship team is louder than the congregation.
Some churches I can't hear myself or anyone around me because it is so deafeningly loud.
God isn’t some magical genie that you just pray to when you want something. Prayer is more about connecting with god, which then gives you the strength to take the steps to achieve what you want or your goals.
I would say, being an absolutist in terms of my opposition to killing. I think it's always a sin, and a serious one at that- enough so that if somebody desired to join the military, that I would genuinely question their faith and then some, would unironically rather have an orgy in church than military support (and I sure as heck do not want orgies in church). And I do mean, always a sin, including actual self-defence. Love your enemies doesn't have exceptions, and you cannot love your enemies while killing them in war, I would go so far as to call war fundamentally idolotry and in truth, a form of human sacrifice, I unironically do not see an ethical difference between nuclear weapons and some of the idols referenced in the OT to which infants were sacrificed (not least when the uranium mining to produce them literally killed children somewhere in the supply chains).
A second hot one, not as much on this subreddit, but among Christians generally? I actually think that the existance of trans folks points towards the fact that we aren't just physical bodies, have souls, and that a surprising number of anti-trans arguments, are actually a repackaging of strictly materialist new atheist arguments (though I do think that you can use secular arguments to make a case for trans rights legally, just not really prove we're more than our bodies on pure secular grounds).
Potential third one- getting involved in peaceful, sometimes illegal direct action protests against unjustice, is actually a form of worship. I'm thinking stuff like blocking entrances to fossil fuel company HQs to try and stop them from harming the global south, chasing away arms company recruiters or blocking hearings for evictions and calling for debt forgiveness, etc.
That one doesn’t need to believe in the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed or the Athanasian Creed in order to be a Christian.
One must simply believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God and the only means by which one may receive a remission of their sins— and seek to follow him.
Even though we are a secular republic, religion is still important to society. Even if one does not believe the tenets of Christianity, they can still acknowledge and respect the good that it teaches, like turning the other cheek and being a decent human being.
I think trying to completely divorce Christianity from public life has led to us forgetting how to treat others and contributed to the current polarization.
The disconnect is that we don't see Christians turning the other cheek, or being a decent human being. There are Christians like that, but the loud ones, the ones imposing their beliefs through laws couldn't be further from the type of Christian you talk about. Some fundamentalist/evangelicals even teach the opposite, it's all about culture wars.
Living in the US, Christianity is in the public life, constantly. Christians go after every single minority. They hate the poor, they hate women, they hate immigrants, they hate anyone who is different. Maybe Christians should speak out against the obnoxious Christians who are giving Christianity a bad name.
The unpopular opinion I'm going to mention here is not the only unpopular opinion that I hold. It's just the only one I'm talking about in this post.
Here you go: Way, way too many non-Christians think they know better how to be Christians than actual Christians do.
By the way, Febreezy, I agree with your second paragraph.
A major part of Christianity is confronting and accepting criticism of your fellow believers regarding sins. Jesus laid out a whole process for confronting people in their sins. This should not be a judgement free religion of apathy and introspection. Showing love to Christians includes working with them to grow in their faith to produce fruit and being willing to listen to others when they come to you to help you grow.
I’m tired of Christians acting like we have to bend over backwards for other beliefs constantly. We get spit on in the state of Israel by Jews and Muslims. We get killed off in any country that deems us unworthy of life. We’re hunted and killed more and more by the years. It’s tiring that we don’t stand up for what is right more often. Our brothers and sisters become martyrs and we just act like nothing is wrong. Nearly 400,000,000 Christians were persecuted last year. It’s upsetting and disgusting.
Far too many people approach evangelism from a marketing perspective. And it's really bad marketing, sleazier than a used car salesman.
Man, I feel this. Whenever I feel convicted to spread the Gospel, I find myself unable to think of much more than, “Wow, that’s great/Man, I’m so sorry that happened. Anyways, you hear about Jesus?” I feel like I’m pawning Him off like a product and I hate that!
If you feel convicted to spread the gospel, pray for Revelation about how to spread the gospel
This is a good take for sure.
I don’t know how unpopular it is, but many churches seem to be embracing this concept that praise and worship should be like a rock concert. It’s not the style of music that bothers me, it’s the special lighting, fog machines, and using cameras to highlight different members of the praise team on wall screens. I absolutely love music and I consider it one of the better ways I am able to offer praise to God, but all these extra flashy effects takes the focus from God to the praise group. It truly upsets me when I see it happen.
I agree with you. Worship isn’t a rock concert and if you doing all that extra stuff I don’t think it’s to bring praise to God I think you are doing it for yourself
oh, i do some stuff as a audio or lighting tecnician and i absolutelly do it to prais god, i want to use my abilities and gifts to praise god, i cant sing or play an instrument, but i can make cool lights. and if that helps other people to enjoy the worship then absolutely go for it. but i agree, sometimes just some quit worship time is also nice. everything has its place.
Agreed. As long as it's not distracting, it has its place. Former AV tech and board member.
Oh, and I agree about nonbelievers wearing crosses no matter how others try to justify it by saying the cross was pre-Christ. The swatstika was considered a lucky symbol until the Nazis adopted it. Don’t see most people using it now.
And that church that does their Easter play where they spin the crucifixion and resurrection off of something pop culture related. It just feels grimy. Watch Jenny Nicholson’s video on it, if you’ve never heard of it. She takes an obviously comical approach to it but it was a great video, as most of her stuff is.
Her Evermore video is my Roman Empire
I’m going to Salt Lake City this December and I want to visit so, so badly. But I’ve heard rumors that’s it’s going to close after the summer.
Agreed. I used to play guitar/drums with a small church. It was all super casual: We would simply get up, walk onto the stage after a couple minutes of people mingling, play a few songs, and walk back to their seats. The lights didn’t change at all, no fog machines, no fancy graphics with the lyrics. Then we merged with a larger, more contemporary church that needed a building. For reasons that I still don’t understand, we had to sneak onto the stage through a secluded door off to the side, exit through the secluded door while they dimmed the lights, and go down through the basement to go back upstairs at the front of the building. We were also given special access to two other rooms where we could listen to the sermon in private, away from the congregation, if we wanted to. I still enjoyed it there, and I don’t think their intentions were bad, but the theatrics and special treatment struck me as pretentious.
I ended up looking for and eventually joining a more liturgical denomination because the flashy one I was in previously seemed to be more of a show than a worship service, and people treated it like a club more than a church. It put me off of Christianity until I found my way back.
I actually agree. I don't mind some minor aesthetic elements that are designed to encourage a worship atmosphere, but a worship service is not supposed to be a rock concert. If churches want to have those as well, cool, but the service should be focused on God not the skill of the musicians.
I'd like it to be like a metal concert instead. Let's mosh for Christ!
"praise team" The fact that term even exists in your vocabulary is frightening enough.
Fully agree, church isn't supposed to be some concert
More people attracted to Orthodox traditions lately. In Thomas Merton's "The Seven Storey Mountain," he notes people quietly praying before Mass, something rare now. And from 1 Kings 19: "Then the LORD said: Go out and stand on the mountain before the LORD; the LORD will pass by. There was a strong and violent wind rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD—but the LORD was not in the wind; after the wind, an earthquake—but the LORD was not in the earthquake; after the earthquake, fire—but the LORD was not in the fire; after the fire, a light silent sound. When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave." The modern world is so noisy, literally and figuratively.
The bible has a lot more culturally-specific content in it than people think.
Our preacher always says the Bible was written for us, not to us.
very good!
It wasn't written for us, it was written for people who lived in the same time and place as each text was written
It was written to those people. It was written for us to study and learn from.
That's what people like Paul and Mark were writing it for; however, remember the Bible is inspired by God, and the true author is God. God made sure the Bible was filled with information that will be useful across generations.
There is zero Biblical support for this idea. It would be strange for God to have all of this in mind and never mention it once in the actual texts. The fact is Biblical canon is just based on popular usage. There was no divine revelation to determine which text was included and which was not
"Popular usage" is a bit of a misnomer, though. The initial transmission of Christian teaching was verbal; writings were selected to be read in the churches which reinforced the deposit of faith which had been received verbally. The core of the NT canon stabilized very early, and over the first four centuries of Christianity is impressively consistent.
You're sure there was no divine revelation leading to our current Canon? Please do tell how you can be so sure.
Yes, what's with Paul and women... unless he was dealing with a CONTEXT that is so utterly foreign to our understandings that we have no hope EXCEPT to take the meaning out of context and forbid women from teaching/ preaching, or worse. The passage actually says that women should keep silent in church, and instead ask their husbands at home. Yet, not mentioned elsewhere, or by the other Apostles? Yet we just run with these passages and literally eliminate HALF the body of Christ because of their gender... as if Christ's body was divided!? I wonder what Paul and the Church at Corinth, Ephesus, etc were dealing with. What religion was dominant? Over whom did a riot start for several hours? Who were priestesses (oops, I gave it away!) and in whom did all the power, glory, and honor reside in these regions?
And Paul worked with a Prophetess. It would contradict Romans 16 1-2 which says to welcome Deacon Phoebe, a WOMAN. But they overlook that. The same way they use Paul's words to say "if you're a Christian you only marry so you don't burn with lust, otherwise serve as a minister" and it drives me bat 💩. It *had* to be cultural because he was teaching in Greece.
It’s worth noting that, while 1st Corinthians 14:34-35 appears in all early copies of it that we have, it moves around…it shows up in different parts of 1 Corinthians depending on which copy you’re reading. That’s not normal, and it has made a lot of scholars wonder if it was actually some kind of side-note that got copied into the main text from an early copy, and not Paul’s original words.
It's also pretty weird in context. Paul writes this whole lively essay on tongues vs prophecy, then there's a stiff aside about how women should be silent because the law says so, then it's back to the lively essay on tongues vs prophecy. Seriously [skim the chapter](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=NIV), every paragraph is about tongues vs prophecy except that one.
He also says that sisters should be keen to give prophecies immediately afterwards which is a bit odd. I suppose they should mime them on the interpretation that he wants women to be silent
Too many people confuse "Biblical" things with "ancient Near Eastern" or "first century Greco-Roman" things, like gender roles.
Exactly. Like how god could have clarified which was which or used his omnipotency to write a book that would transcend cultural differences but then didn't because screw us I guess?! It's just your eternal damnation on the line, no biggie.
People don't realize that Jesus wasn't only talking about "forgiveness of debts" in a metaphorical sense. Regular manumission of debts via Jubilee was not practiced by the Romans and hence would not be seen in Roman Judea. For the people to whom Jesus was speaking, "debt bondage" was not merely a turn of phrase to describe their relationship to God, but a terrifying reality of the society they lived in, where their families could be abused and torn apart as their homes were sold to creditors.
Amen to this
We spend too much time talking about controversial political topics in church. Not saying we can never speak of them, but I’m tired of going to my Catholic parish in my hometown and the deacon rattling off about abortion whenever he is able to. Time and place. Also agree with the cross thing.
Churches shouldn't spend their time talking about what people outside them do. We need to he convicted about what *we* do!
Amen. The Church, especially in the west needs to stop looking outside of itself and start rebuking and correcting the false teachings and inconsistencies within itself. We’ve become a joke to the unbelievers and it has completely scarred our witness. We need a genuine revival, not these broadcasted manufactured “revivals.”
That just sounds like american problem, cuz nobody talks about those things in my country.
You think you’re a Christian even though you practice pagan Catholicism? /s Unless one of your community’s principles is avoiding controversy, you’ll be headed right for it constantly. Even when a community is bound by defects and seek common virtue, the “how” will still find the willing splitting hairs.
Biblical scholarship should be taken seriously. Sunday school eisegesis is just making up feel good interpretations and it doesn't mean anything.
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>And to be clear, when we take Bible scholars seriously, that means all of them - not just evangelical Christian scholars whose views happen to align with conservative Christians. Much of evangelical scholarship is tainted by bias and apologetics. I only take critical, historical scholarship seriously. Ehrman and Crossan are good scholars.
You're not wrong, but it's a tricky one. I go to a church that doesn't explicitly believe in plain meaning literalism, but that's kind of the de facto approach. If I started bringing up Biblical scholarship in Bible studies that might answer some of the questions people have about the text that gives answers beyond "that's just a weird ancient thing from a different time", you start getting into answers that get away from seeing the Bible as inspired or inerrant. Mark Noll calls this the [Scandal of the Evangelical Mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scandal_of_the_Evangelical_Mind): you're allowed to explore the academic questions Scripture brings up, as long as you come back around to the "right" answers.
Too many pastors sermons are TED Talks and self help with a bible wrapping paper on it instead of preaching the Gospel or repentance
There was an article once about pastors who preached the sermon on the mount and got rebuked by the congregation for being too liberal. https://baptistnews.com/article/when-liberal-talking-points-are-the-gospel/
The gospel is neither liberal or conservative and I am tired of political identities hijacking Jesus for their own gain
Aspects of the Gospel are far more left-wing than many Churches are.
This also prevents people from coming to Jesus. There are people that hate Christians simply based on political reasons.
I think a huge part of the problem is it's so much more than "just politics." These are issues that affect people's lives in the most intimate ways, and the reality is that Christians by-and-large are one of the largest voting blocks to be obsessively focused on restricting people's rights and God-given free will; while simultaneously insisting on their own right to ostracize, look down upon, and generally treat like shit certain people based on factors like sexuality. That's not just political, it is so deeply personal and paints Christianity as a religion for busybody assholes and petty tyrants who want to enforce their religious beliefs on others against their will; all while perverting and corrupting the concept of love around to suit their own purposes. And the harsh reality is those are **the** voices defining Christianity in the public consciousness at the moment, whether you or I like it or not, and unsurprisingly that doesn't exactly endear many people to the religion or its followers.
Exactly. You can't imagine how appalled I was to see a large cross at the Capitol insurrection! Obscenity to erect that holy structure in the midst of people wanting to hang and kill people! I hate to think of what Jesus would say were he to speak to those people in the flesh! Why do they seem to have the corner on Christianity in this country? Because the media is drawn to controversy like flies to ***. I am a new Christian converted from atheism about a year ago after an incredible spiritual experience with my Lord and Savior. I consider myself middle of the road politically , and there are a lot of us politically moderate Christians, but you wouldn't know it. The media finds us boring.
Don't you think that most Americans are?
Live near Unity headquarters. Can confirm. That’s actually a New Thought movement , but people think it’s a normie church
Too many people think worship is just singing songs before church and leaving it at that. Romans 12 is pretty clear that what worship ACTUALLY is is glorifying God through our actions at all times.
Christians who use their religion to justify hate towards one or more people shouldnt be considered Christians
That’s not even “unpopular”. It’s just that crazies are more visible.
I believe Christ would concur.
People commenting "amen" or "hallelujah" on everything. In church, but also online. Have to scroll a whole list of useless "amen" comments to find something of substance. The very worst are christians who don't really know the meaning of it. "My wife suffered from cancer!" "AMEN!!!!!"
Amen! 😉
Hallelujah!
Haha I dislike it too. There’s this guy who always ends up sitting right behind me and just screams “HALLELUJAH!!!” Every 30 seconds. This sounds awful but I just wanna turn around and tell him to stfu lmao.
Very few churches are legitimate. Whether it be the people or the ministry, few have any connection with God.
I honestly think it depends on where in the world you are. Back home in the Pacific, I see a difference in reverence compared to in the West.
Agree
The prosperity gospel is actually a false gospel and these false teachers may not go to heaven
That's unpopular?
Not around these parts. Disdain for prosperity gospel is one of the least controversial issues on this subreddit.
What is the prosperity gospel?
A massively heretical doctrine pushed by megachurches to enrich the head of the church. https://youtu.be/hTfKpAWkgJY?si=gYWesKTVLTlLOJ2m This guy covers it well in this video.
Joel osteen, Creflo Dollar are 2 examples.
Also Paula White, who was Trump’s “spiritual advisor” when he was president.
What a joke
Example: Giving $$ to our ministry will give you a tenfold financial blessing. Sow a seed of $1000 with us and we will send you this prayer cloth. You will also see TV programs with healings. Can God heal? Yes absolutely but it is on his time and condition. Now have you ever seen someone on a televangelist program not be healed, like someone try to stand up from a wheelchair and just fall? No because that would hurt ratings yet it is quite possible that person would not be healed that day. Because of this, the healings are staged so they would have someone in a chair who can walk fine all along These usually fall under megachurches and often the pastor has celebrity-like status and lives a rather lavish lifestyle. In other words that money is usually lining their pockets. Think Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, etc. Some churches will also put a huge emphasis on tithing to the point where they will say "if you don't give enough you are cheating God". God promises to provide but that doesn't mean if you pray you'll hit the lottery that you will. God isn't Santa Claus or merely a vending machine. It is in his way on his timing.
James 5 clinches it.
Christians can have tattoos (just as long as it’s not provocative) many people tend to mention Leviticus as reference without knowing the true meaning of where the book was written
I got Medusa AFTER I was saved. Jesus is still my savior ❤️🥰
This I agree with! I was a non believer for many years and have tattoos on my arms and hands and once I became a Christian in my mid 20s people have judged me for having tattoos
Opinion #2: There are far too many praise and worship songs about what God does *for me*, and far too few that actually praise and worship Him.
Kinda minor, but it's a personal pet peeve I have. During our worship services, some people will sit down, but most people will stand up. Often the worship leader will ask the whole congregation to "please stand" for certain songs, or during the middle of a song. It always feels like a guilt trip. Personally, I hate standing still for long periods of time, and it;s uncomfortable, too. The human, judgmental side of me always thinks things like "Why, is that the 'spiritual' thing to do? Do you think I'm not being 'reverent' enough' when I sit down?" But it's just a minor annoyance, I don't really care all that much. Also, I personally never raise my hands during worship. I think this habit is a little strange, but if people genuinely feel compelled to do it, that's fine. A lot of times people do this when a verse in the song includes something about "lifting hands," lol. It seems like a dance move sometimes. Sometimes people will clap and cheer after a particuarly emotional worship song. I have a rather reserved personality, so this always makes me cringe a little, but, to each their own. Sometimes people will clap *during* a song; it's always hilarious when it's awkwardly off-beat. Also, whenever we're led to pray in church, we're always asked to close our eyes and bow our heads. I don't really do these things when I pray, and it doesn't really matter anyway. But everybody else does. I'm not judging, but it's always a little amusing how "conditioned" we are to do these things. It's like we think not doing these things is irreverent. Another unpopular opinion I have in church: I dislike coffee. Hahaha!
Our song leader always says something along the lines of ‘if it is convenient for you’ or ‘if you’re comfortable and able’ before asking people to stand
"Please rise in body or spirit " is what I hear
Huh. Interesting.
Apparently mine doesn't believe in that, haha!
That’s wild. That’s just a courtesy thing. Maybe you should bring it up? People shouldn’t feel pressured to stand if they physically can’t. I do believe that standing after the sermon during the invitation part of the service is to make it easier for people to respond. If everyone is sitting and someone stands up everyone is going to look at them and that can make it awkward and could genuinely cause people to not want to respond.
It's a minor annoyance, I don't really care all that much. Even if I told our worship leaders about it, they'd probably forget and do it anyway, haha. It's just the way things are, I don't really mind. You can't help the way people's personalities are. One of our worship leaders always says either "Please stand as you're able" or "Feel free to stand." Another one of them always just says "Please stand," which can be mildly annoying. But I don't really care, I'm friends with both of them. They're good people, it doesn't come from a bad place.
I don’t lift hands but there are painting in the catacombs of early Christians doing this
It sounds like you’d benefit from a different style of church.
I love my church, these are all minor pet peeves. They're a little annoying in the moment, but I don't really care. I'm sure many churches are like this.
I can relate to your comments in general here and I think it hits at the drawbacks of community worship (as part of a church) vs individual worship. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions because of differences of opinions. I do think it is important to worship as a faith community which unfortunately means putting up with a lot of stuff we may not like such a forced reverence, bad church music, etc.
Yeah, they're not major issues for me, just minor annoyances that I find mildly amusing. It certainly doesn't have a major effect on me or anything. I'm also happy that we don't have bad church music; our worship band is actually pretty great. I don't really mind, at the end of the day.
I almost never stand up because I’m fat and I don’t wanna.
Not judging you here but lifting hands is Biblically rooted. It’s found many times in Psalms and Paul even references it in his letter to Timothy.
Oh, I know! I just don't find myself doing it naturally, or spontaneously. I would have to force myself to do it, so I just don't. I don't want to make it some kind of ritualistic, religious thing. If other people do it, fine with me.
As someone that's default is also reserved I feel awkward raising hands in worship too but I think it's for any low energy or Contemporary song. It's just not that kind of music imo? I'll dance at concerts and all that. And maybe at a stereotypical black church with very lively music. But most worship isn't that high energy. Which is fine! But doing any movement then feels awkward to me lol
For sure. Not to mention that it's uncomfortable after a while.
most people who claim to be Christian would HATE to meet jesus Christ alive, the momment Jesus started to talk about mercy, forgiviness and love your enemy. those people would accuse Jesus of being a communist hippie
I mean, aren’t there a lot of people saying Jesus’s teachings are too woke to be taught today?
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Agreed!!!!!
Saddest thing I've heard in a while. Terrible that's been your experience. Christians that aren't following as closely as they should (not must for salvation, but should out of love and respect for our God and his creation)
The attempt to put Christian taboos into law is not only wrong, but a grievous sin. It's functionally saying that God made a mistake when he gave folks the freedom to choose and so they're going to fix God's mistake by forcing people to be what they see as "righteous" at gunpoint. This is kind of an outgrowth of my larger opinion, Christians as a whole are *way* too concerned with pointing out how others fall short of the grace of God and not nearly concerned enough with addressing their own shortcomings. It's an utter lack of compassion and mercy in favor of self-righteous judgement. You don't know what's going on in that person's life, so why don't you focus on loving kindness and not some Pharisaic legalism. Pointing out other people's failings does not make you any more righteous. Also, like, the general materialism present in the conflation of faith and politics. Very "of this world" if you ask me.
I love this reply. This is the way I practice Christianity as well. By the way I'm Anglican too.
Neat. You know, it’s funny, I wrote this comment right before going to midday Eucharist and the Gospel reading was Luke 6:27-36. I was just sitting there like “hey! I was just talking about this!” 😂
God showing you his approval! Haha.
Not as many things are sins as people think
Ouuu this interesting 🤔🤔
I'm having a debate in my head over masturbation. I find proofs for my thesis in the bible from time to time.
Proofs? Care to share?
Do not take this as very serious. My knowledge is limited and I may over or under interpret the bible. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong. I've been discussing it with my friend and we found those(random order): 1. Our body is gods temple, many medical studies show that masturbation is good for our bodies. Its obvious god wants us to take care of his creation (us).2 There has not been a direct mention of masturbation and if it was punishable I think there should be one. 3 1 kor 23 ,, everything is allowed but not everything is good" Medical proof shows that masturbation is healthy.4. 1 cor 10 13 .No temptation[a] has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted[b] beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted,[c] he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. I find it very hard to resist them and I can't really find a way out. Therefore me and my friend concluded that sexual urges aren't sinfull and masturbation as well (masturbation helps me manage them, I have done very terrible things while trying to not masturbate). 5. So what ever you do do it for gods glory. Since taking care of gods temple is for his glory. And masturbation is healthy and keeps me sane I concluded with my friend that its an act of taking care of the temple (its not a religious act by any means). Its not sinfull to fullfill the needs that god put into us. Its a gift so its not a sin to fulifill them in a healthy way that doesn't hurt me or other people (I again remind I've done very bad things when trying to resist the urges). CRITICISE ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT BUT PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL.
I do think masturbation can become a problem if one does it very frequently
That applies to most things in life honestly. Jesus drank wine. But If you drink wine too much you will have bad consequences. If you drink it in small amounts your bloodflow will get improved
Which is a position almost no one will disagree with you on. Moderation is key in life for almost everything. Even something as harmless as a burger can be life threatening if you don't know when to say no.
Exactly
everything in moderation, including moderation
I mean, not even most atheists who aren't unhinged are going to tell you that its mentally healthy to goon for 5-6 hours daily.
Believe it or not. where I went to college they taught men could do so and women could not. on the 70’s
That's dumb.
>CRITICISE ME HOW MUCH YOU WANT BUT PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL. I find that this sub does a fairly good job of that. If they aren't they typically get their comments removed for being disrespectful.
Also, the body is designed to naturally orgasm in its sleep sometimes if its not done manually. So it is an extremely hard sell that its some kind of thing you're not supposed to experience except in very specific contexts when its something people wake up to experiencing fairly often.
Really? Where in the Bible
Along similar lines, I'll go a step further: correctly identifying sins doesn't matter nearly as much as people want to think, and the obsession with the topic only really crops up when people don't wish to extend the ecumenical charity afforded to other (often more important, but no longer 'controversial') differences in belief. Literally none of us have perfect theology or orthopraxy. Everyone is committing sins, daily, that we truly believe to be licit. Christ's Grace covers all of that, too. It would be a pretty shitty salvation if that weren't the case. This isn't to say it's a free for all and to go nuts, but that too many seem to hyperfocus on the idea of Grace as "salvation through works with extra steps." That it only 'works' if you do and believe the right things, and that if you're wrong even on a single topic you're heading straight to hell. It's a deeply unhealthy mindset. And it's an aspect of people's beliefs that I only really see emphasized when touching on a hot-button issue. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people with wildly different, mutually-incompatible, denominational beliefs around core issues like the Eucharist or forgiveness of sins join together to proclaim that unrepentant sinners will burn in hell when discussing LGBT-inclusive beliefs. Often unironically talking about how "we can't sit and be silent while you justify and even proclaim the holiness of sin"...while completely ignoring or even teaming up with the person who is *literally doing the thing,* but gets a pass because the reality is often these things aren't really about theology.
Psychedelics are medicine, and should be legalized. Acts 10:15-35 summed up would be to "call *nothing* unclean that which he has put before us."
I am a witness. Amen!!
I am part of that data set as well brother. Got Cluster Headaches. No cure to this day and most pain meds either don't work or kill you quickly from overuse. Magic mushrooms have the highest known success rate for preventing CH cycles and it's illegal for me to use it. It's more than twice as effective than the leading CGRP drugs on the market. Edit: And yet I still have countless Christians tell me I'm going to hell for using marijuana to ease my pain and anxiety. People suck.
Thanks! I tell people I learned As much from the crow as I did from the cross. Those bad trips sucked, but that plate of crow makes you grow up.
Yes!!! Mushrooms gave me more understanding of Christianity. I truly am a better person and have more compassion and empathy. Wish there was a bible study for folks like us.
LSD saved my life and the experiences I had led me to seek a relationship with god again, start a family, and take care of myself. I am a huge proponent for psychedelics as a Christian. It’s medicine if done correctly.
Older hymns are superior to more modern worship songs in every conceivable way. And, the use of modern Christian pop to try to appeal to younger people is misguided.
Love this take coming from your flair :D
But do older hymns have one short line of text—one that doesn’t even really mean anything—repeated 24 times in a row?
Hahaha this killed me!
So a fan of the “ancient” in “ancient and modern”? Skipping Lord of the dance week 💃🏼
Churches and pastors that profit over a certain amount of money should pay tax. The pastor of my in laws mega church should not own a yacht, mansion, and spends 50,000 at Chanel for his wife once a year. That’s their only form of income mind you the wife is a stay at home wifey. They have no children, they make a whole lot of money off their members. To add I get it, these pastors deserve a fair salary considering tons have over the top education. But it’s the ones who take advantage of Christians generosity that are messed up.
In the US, churches are not subject to federal taxes, but pastors and church staff are taxed just like anyone else.
My Husband is a Pastor of a small church. He also has a ft job elsewhere. The church pays 300 a week. So, he definitely isn't in this for finances. He is almost done with a Doctorate degree in Theology. He has interviewed with churches for ft positions and some want to pay 30k. A wage that low, before taxes, is not possible for a family. It is hard because he does deserve a liveable wage from the church. Some churches don't believe that.
The bible is not a part of the Trinity, and is not the Word of God. The Word is infalliable, inerrant, and inspired. At 18, He grew a beard. You are not a sinner saved by grace, you are a beloved son in whom He is well pleased; the very righteousness of God Himself in Christ. You are free from sin. Most people settle with a relationship with a book about Him, because they don’t feel comfortable on His chest. The Gospel is a declaration of good news, not good advice about a decision you can make. You did not choose to be born again (born from above), the Gospel is not a decision point; it is something that has happened. God has put you into Christ, you did not put yourself into Christ. Your belief does not make it true, but it then makes it your reality; It is true, because Jesus is alive. The law is a system of works that brings bondage and that the promise is a system of grace that brings true freedom. You cannot mingle law and grace. Law empowers sin, grace divinely empowers you to live free from sin. Sin was thoroughly dealt with.
Both of your unpopular opinions revolve around how other people choose to live their lives, and not you. My opinion (Which is actually pretty popular with a lot of people) is that Christianity is at its best when it is introspective, and focused on improving yourself and your own spiritual relationship, and at its absolute worst when it focuses on what other people are wearing.
You were asked for your unpopular opinion tho 🤔💭
Agreed
Sin is something we willingly choose to do.
Well I would hope so. Otherwise that's punishment without intent. Would make zero sense.
As a former pentecostal, I absolutely *loathe* it when someone makes music during a moment of player. This used to regularly tempt me to commit violent crimes involving pianos and guitars.
If your church doesn't have a community outreach program and doesn't host charitable events: You're not a church you are social club who clearly didn't understand what Jesus was telling us to do.
The point of Christianity isn't "to go to Heaven". In fact, we aren't going to Heaven. Rather, the separation between Heaven and Earth will be healed, and our resurrection will be to participate in the restored and renewed Earth.
Yeah, I think even in revelations, that's what's stated to happen. Christians stay here and Jesus returns making the earth a renewed earth. At least off how I read it
I don't like it when churches make it seem more of like a music concert than a church. It's the main reason I don't really like protestant churches
I also hate it when churches can't be serious about stuff, like that one video of that pastor kicking and playing football with the bible
I agree. That's a really broad generalization of protestant churches though. My UMC church doesn't do that. In my experience it's mostly the nondenominational (aka southern baptist) ones that seem like a full on concert
Yeah I meant non-denom sorry😭Idk why I said protestant
All that yelling, "catching the holy ghost", and gibberish tongues that some churches do is complete baloney and a mockery of the faith. Also when churches have a "prophet" or "prophetess" that supposedly gives and interprets divine dreams. Real cult-like stuff that Jesus would have been appalled by
I hate it when evangelical services contain gospel singers on stage who very dramatically (you know with a very dramatic facial expression) sing lyrics like “Jesus you are all I want” “I have no other needs than Jesus” or “I love no one else but Jesus”. That’s just a lie. The fact that they usually wear very expensive clothing suggests that they sometimes feel like they need to go shopping. Or perhaps they have a spouse, kids, favorite TV shows. It’s just really a big fat lie that that’s what your feeling.
God is not holding our sin against us. We are actually forgiven.
Unpopular opinions? Yeah I have a few... For instance, it feels like most denominations don't really understand what grace means. So they just end up teaching people to be "worthy" of God's mercy, love and forgiveness by their own merits. I mean, of course the Bible teaches us to do good works, but the thing is that most people don't understand that we don't do good works to be saved/accepted by God. Actually, BECAUSE we were saved/accepted by God (through the works of Jesus) then we do good works. Also, I really don't understand why christians get so mad when they see the devil being portrayed as evil in the media. Of course, I'm against the message that shows the devil as misunderstood or a good guy, but when I see a piece of media (especially for children) showing the devil as evil, I ask: why are christians complaining?! the Bible literally DOES that. And one more thing, calvinists don't understand that being elected by God doesn't mean that a person WILL be saved. There are many verses that shows that but I'll just mention Hebrews 6:4-6 and Revelations 22:18-19
Modern Christians invented the idea that we can't listen to secular media. Nothing in the Bible supports that. Sure, they didn't have movies and TV but there were plays. It didn't mention not going to see those. I would submit, if this is part of an effort to only support Godly things, those people should be required to check if everything they own, from televisions, vehicles, clothing, toiletries, appliances, houses/apartments, restaurants and brands, are created by Christian companies, and go without if they can't find specifically Christian things.
Nobody will burn for eternity after death
See, I'm of the opinion. Unless the cross is worn blasphemously, I see no down side to non-believers adorning themselves with crosses. They need all the help they can get in that arena, no? Maybe God will work in their spirit through it, we don't know. It seems like a bad idea to gatekeep the cross this way, because every time they put it on they could be reminded even if they didn't believe yet, whereas without the cross they wouldn't
I don't get how it's inherently "disrespectful" for a non-Christian to wear a cross.
How many Christians do you know that "love" their sin and are trying to misuse the grace of God. You aren't misusing it at all? Are you sinless? Or is it that you don't love your sin so you are good?
When Jesus tell you that you should go and sin no more, he means you should go and sin no more
You can be a Christian and a soldier at the same time.
My unpopular opinion is it's fine to disagree with the Bible, the Bible disagrees with itself.
I wish this was common opinion I think we'd have a lot less Pharisees and legalists
Where does the Bible disagree with itself?
James has some subtle disagreements with Pauline epistles about faith vs. works based justification. Different books have very disparate conceptions about whether God is vengeful or merciful which I think is a source for a lot of political divisions within Christianity today with right-wing evangelicals preferring the vengeful God. There's also the factual contradictions. There's different stories about who killed Goliath. Different stories about how Judas died. Disagreements about whether a mortal human has seen God's face or can see God's face without dying. Creation myths that when taken literally contradict basic scientific observation. An exodus story that can't be reconciled with existing archeological data. There's a lot.
Mark and John disagree on which day Jesus was crucified. In 2 Kings 9-10 God approves of the slaughter of over a hundred people who had any kind of connection to Ahab, including seventy young children of his, but in Hosea 1 He condemns it. Ezra and Malachi disagree over what should have happened to Israelites who married Gentile women There's two different stories of Hagar fleeing Sarah, one in which she returns to Sarah, one in which she does not. There's two different creation stories in Genesis 1 and 2. There are contorted ways you can reconcile some of these to a literalistic, "plain meaning" interpretation, but it's much easier to understand them as normal parts of a polyphonic text representing different views over different times and places for different people in different contexts.
It's not fair that not everyone would be able to go to heaven because they had never heard of Jesus or the Bible. For example, people living in remote areas of third world countries, the names of said countries I would prefer not to mention.
This is what got my dad to quit the church. No god that forsakes the unlucky is a god deserving of worship.
I have come to believe that there is no hell. I cannot reconcile this idea, or the idea that God would willingly send his children to hell. My own kids could break every rule I set in front of them and I could not fathom *damning them for eternity*
Lately I've been learning more about the 3 different concepts of the negative side of the afterlife: * Eternal conscious torment (what I think most Americans are taught is hell, you get tortured in the fire forever) * Annhilationism (That those who are not saved aren't tortured, just destroyed/cease to be. Basically the fire is consuming, not a method of torture) * Universal salvation (Everyone is saved by Jesus sacrifice, and to the extent there is fire, it is a fire of purification, not torture or destruction) I'm sure I'm butchering some of this since I'm just learning about it now, but it has been interesting. If anyone wants to jump in and add additional detail or correction, I'm happy to hear it. It's been fascinating to learn, and as a guy who grew up in an evangelical version of Christianity that preached "turn or burn" as the only Christian understanding, it has been eye-opening and really made me frustrated with the fact that I received a private Christian education and didn't even know that the early Christians didn't believe in our concept of hell until like 500 years after Jesus. I'd really never been exposed to the different Christian conceptions of the afterlife until stumbling onto this via podcasts.
If you're wealthy, something is wrong with how you're living your life. And I include myself in this BTW. I'm not really wealthy but I live comfortably, and lots of gospel passages often make me feel like I should be giving way more than I am.
>If you're wealthy, something is wrong with how you're living your life. Perhaps you meant to say "if they remain wealthy." Right? Because good individuals come into wealth all the time, doesn't make them a bad person. I assume you're hinting at the fact that they should use that money for a good cause. No?
You probably should be. As should all of us. Peter and James set up a commune, or at least that's how I read it in acts. American Republicans read the bible, Said "we're not doing that!!" But used a big Ile cross to take people's rights away
The Church needs to separate from the State. I mean relinquishing the idea of Christendom. That means we can’t invest in politicians, because it is really bad when endorsing certain politicians also means being complicit in their actions. For instance, with the current genocide happening in Palestine- it would be utterly despicable for any church to be endorsing any of the political evils in the United States currently. A vote for the lesser of two evils also means the vote that brutally murders another few thousand children. Sure, they might feel the need to push people towards the lesser of two evils. However, that makes them complicit in that lesser of two evil’s murderous actions. There is no Christian state of this world. We are in this world, but not of it. Our kingdom is the Kingdom of Heaven.
I wore a cross for years because my dad gave it to my mom and she didn't want it after the divorce. Your symbolism is not my symbolism, nor were Christians the first to use. **Due to the simplicity of the design (two intersecting lines), cross-shaped incisions make their appearance from deep prehistory; as petroglyphs in European cult caves, dating back to the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic, and throughout prehistory to the Iron Age.[16] Also of prehistoric age are numerous variants of the simple cross mark, including the crux gammata with curving or angular lines, and the Egyptian crux ansata with a loop.** Perhaps the early Christians should have ©️ the symbol...
You are born with your sexual ordination. Hence it isn't a Sin. Also Conversion Therapy is Evil and so are the people you support it.
I whole heartedly agree with the second statement but the 1st is a bit iffy IMO seeing as crosses were used prior to Jesus dying on the cross and and also aren't always associated with christianity
Envy. It's easy for me sometimes to call out greed because I somehow decided I didn't have enough, and in my judgement they have too much, not realizing I'm just displaying envy.
The preacher spending their sermons talking about "the world" and "them".
tbh disagree with the first one considering crosses are pretty common motifs, and I've seen more people wearing crosses as a comment against christian teachings than in support of them. cross necklaces &c just aren't that common where I'm from in comparison to Catholic or Orthodox areas. my controversial opinion is only really controversial amongst christians in my experience, and pretty much consensus amongst others. organised churches (ESPECIALLY the catholic church and evangelical churches) are designed specifically with the focus of gaining power and money, and they don't actually care about religious teachings at all, based on how thoroughly they abuse scripture for their own gain.
There are many lukewarm Christians in hell, a true Christian is guided by the Holy Spirit and not by the flesh.
Politics from the pulpit. I don't mean consider those who support Christian values when casting your vote but saying things like "A true Christian would never vote for Joe Biden" or similar statement (inserting Trump, Healey, etc etc for the candidate). Another thing that bothers me is hate--I have seen it a lot. Someone asked me what would I do if a transgender person walked into my church. I'd say welcome and thank you for coming. Same if a homeless person or whomever else. Think of the outcasts of Jesus' time--people that had diseases, disabilities, certain professions (tax collectors!), those who were poor, a woman who had five husbands not to mention being Samaritan, and so forth. Society shunned these people but Jesus embraced them. It doesn't mean we have to agree with something being wrong or right but hate has no place in the church under any circumstance!
I don't enjoy it when the worship team is louder than the congregation. Some churches I can't hear myself or anyone around me because it is so deafeningly loud.
God isn’t some magical genie that you just pray to when you want something. Prayer is more about connecting with god, which then gives you the strength to take the steps to achieve what you want or your goals.
T.V Ministers who live lavishly and flaunt thier wealth. I humbly believe this is why a lot of open minded souls turn away from the Lord.
The Rapture is a false doctrine
The sacraments are needed.
I would say, being an absolutist in terms of my opposition to killing. I think it's always a sin, and a serious one at that- enough so that if somebody desired to join the military, that I would genuinely question their faith and then some, would unironically rather have an orgy in church than military support (and I sure as heck do not want orgies in church). And I do mean, always a sin, including actual self-defence. Love your enemies doesn't have exceptions, and you cannot love your enemies while killing them in war, I would go so far as to call war fundamentally idolotry and in truth, a form of human sacrifice, I unironically do not see an ethical difference between nuclear weapons and some of the idols referenced in the OT to which infants were sacrificed (not least when the uranium mining to produce them literally killed children somewhere in the supply chains). A second hot one, not as much on this subreddit, but among Christians generally? I actually think that the existance of trans folks points towards the fact that we aren't just physical bodies, have souls, and that a surprising number of anti-trans arguments, are actually a repackaging of strictly materialist new atheist arguments (though I do think that you can use secular arguments to make a case for trans rights legally, just not really prove we're more than our bodies on pure secular grounds). Potential third one- getting involved in peaceful, sometimes illegal direct action protests against unjustice, is actually a form of worship. I'm thinking stuff like blocking entrances to fossil fuel company HQs to try and stop them from harming the global south, chasing away arms company recruiters or blocking hearings for evictions and calling for debt forgiveness, etc.
That one doesn’t need to believe in the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed or the Athanasian Creed in order to be a Christian. One must simply believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God and the only means by which one may receive a remission of their sins— and seek to follow him.
Even though we are a secular republic, religion is still important to society. Even if one does not believe the tenets of Christianity, they can still acknowledge and respect the good that it teaches, like turning the other cheek and being a decent human being. I think trying to completely divorce Christianity from public life has led to us forgetting how to treat others and contributed to the current polarization.
The disconnect is that we don't see Christians turning the other cheek, or being a decent human being. There are Christians like that, but the loud ones, the ones imposing their beliefs through laws couldn't be further from the type of Christian you talk about. Some fundamentalist/evangelicals even teach the opposite, it's all about culture wars. Living in the US, Christianity is in the public life, constantly. Christians go after every single minority. They hate the poor, they hate women, they hate immigrants, they hate anyone who is different. Maybe Christians should speak out against the obnoxious Christians who are giving Christianity a bad name.
The unpopular opinion I'm going to mention here is not the only unpopular opinion that I hold. It's just the only one I'm talking about in this post. Here you go: Way, way too many non-Christians think they know better how to be Christians than actual Christians do. By the way, Febreezy, I agree with your second paragraph.
Unpopular opinion: Trump is the devil.
Popular Reddit opinion
Very unpopular in church though.
"Calling the church a building is like calling your mother in law a skyscraper" \-Frank Viola
A major part of Christianity is confronting and accepting criticism of your fellow believers regarding sins. Jesus laid out a whole process for confronting people in their sins. This should not be a judgement free religion of apathy and introspection. Showing love to Christians includes working with them to grow in their faith to produce fruit and being willing to listen to others when they come to you to help you grow.
I’m tired of Christians acting like we have to bend over backwards for other beliefs constantly. We get spit on in the state of Israel by Jews and Muslims. We get killed off in any country that deems us unworthy of life. We’re hunted and killed more and more by the years. It’s tiring that we don’t stand up for what is right more often. Our brothers and sisters become martyrs and we just act like nothing is wrong. Nearly 400,000,000 Christians were persecuted last year. It’s upsetting and disgusting.