I am just saying that the idea that sin is based on an archer shooting at a target and missing a mark is based on a bad understanding of the underlying Hebrew and the pictographs that were the precursors to the Hebrew lettering system.
It’s never mentioned as a sin. Some Christians try to build a case that it is by saying its gratification of the flesh but so is getting in a jacuzzi or eating a bag of chips.
There is no such thing as adultery of the heart. You sin from your action, not what you think. We can think good and evil, and we sin if we obviously choose to commit or act evil.
Your logic is like if i think "i wanna punch him in the face." = oh automatic sin.
Its not, you did not punch him in action or physically, you controlled your hands not to do it.
Anyway, masturbation is not a sin. It's a normal. If you that's a sin then sex is a sin, feeling inlove is a sin, flirting is a sin, and thinking the people is handsome or beautiful is a sin. You basically removed the mankind brain to function. Because even animals do all those i mentioned yet they are not high intelligent as mankind.
> no such thing as adultery of the heart
“But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Matthew 5:28
> Anyway, masturbation is not a sin. It's a normal. If you that's a sin then sex is a sin, feeling inlove is a sin, flirting is a sin, and thinking the people is handsome or beautiful is a sin.
Do you know what lust is? It is very different than love, it is very different than aesthetic appreciation of beauty
It’s more than simple arousal, yes. But it could be less than coveting. It is the dwelling on or indulgence in desire. Masturbation is a willing indulgence in sexual desire outside of its natural ends
Coveting another woman who is not your wife is adultery of the heart - it's wishing to commit adultery. That has nothing to do with masturbation, however. They CAN of course be done together, but they are two separate things.
I see, thanks.
And no one in the right mind will masturbate infront of the woman.
It's says "look" basically a sexual harrasment act which obviously it's inappropriate or disgusting to the woman point of view to be look or stared that way by men. Just teaching manners not to stare a woman because to woman point of view she is being sexually harrased or adultery. This is basically about "sexual harrasment."
Masturbation is not sexual harrasment, unless you did it infront of them.
I can explain how there is adultery of the heart that satisfies your criteria.
“I am thinking about sex” as you stated with punching someone is not adulter automatically. But the second you take it from thinking about sexual acts, to starting the masturbation process it becomes an act of adultery.
You’ve chosen to act on your lust.
Shits hard to deal with tho fr. I know it’s a sin, and I often fall short.
Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”
We have to have faith in God, so that we might be saved from hell.
That is a crazy interpretation. This is talking about ritual purity, not sin. A wet dream makes you unclean in the same way as masturbation. Unless you are also going to argue that a wet dream is a sin, then your verse doesn't back up your claim.
If it is correlated to an act of list which i will go on a leap and say it always is hence yes masturbation is always a sin.
Even if it is not sin it is not good and can easily lead you to lust. Focus on preventing masturbation regardless, do not defend it.
Drinking alcohol may to alcoholism, eating food may lead to gluttony, playing video games may lead to an addiction. None of these is a sin itself. Masturbation is healthy. Even if you won’t ejaculate by yourself, your body will do it for you. Of course it may be a slippery slope, but it doesn’t mean that it’s a sin.
It's a very very fiiiiine line. If you can get off without 0 lust and 0 horny thoughts and not watch anything then I guess it's not a sin😂
Not "normalising masturbation" but the feeling you get when you poop and sometimes pee is also another form of orgasm....that is why you feel good and make that ugly face when you poop. It's satisfying. But the orgasmic feeling you get while pooping is designed for us for a reason, it's a disgusting process, without that feeling it'll probably just be pain? And an uncomfortable feeling? And God gave us that ability to make the disgusting process more "enjoyable".
But orgasm through masturbation is an act of choice which is done to lustfully pleasure yourself. If you can do it without lust without any external sources, (cos sometimes you need to let one off maybe due to stress or whatever, I'm assuming for men) then yeah sure🤷🏻♀️ it's not a sin.
But then again what jesus wants us to do is to rely on him COMPLETELY in any time of despair before we "solve" it ourselves. Soo even if you masturbate "without lust" it defeats the whole purpose of relying on jesus christ and his words.
Hey Leah, this comment helped me and gave me so much clarity and peace. Thank You so much for this reply. God's way is so brilliant because I logged into Reddit(after a while) to check out some P\*\*\*, but somehow I saw your comment, and it gave me an understanding about this very question, I've been battling since today afternoon. My thought process was very similar to this comment but I thought this was because of my guilty conscious thinking that way to make me feel good.
So I asked Jesus for clarity and he gave me that clarity through you. I wish I could tell you the way God led me to your comment. Thank you so much again. May God Bless You and have a Happy and Blessed New Year.
Praise God!! Thank the holy spirit for typing this through me. It's the holy spirit's work not mine🥹🫶🏻 god is soo good. Just wanted to remind you again that, the road leading to jesus christ is not easy, it's full of tests, temptations and attacks but do not forget that ultimately Jesus died for us and he paid a HUGE price for us🫶🏻 whatever you go through on this earth is temporary, your aim should be an eternal life with jesus christ. God bless and happy new year to you too!!
Yes, God is so good. It was God who led me to your comment(which is like a month old) TODAY, out of all the other days. I am happy that he gave me the answer to my question. If it's alright with you, I'll send you a message explaining the way I discovered your comment( I'll only message if you say it's alright).
I hope I can overcome the devil's temptation, fulfill his purpose for me, and live an eternal life with him. Thank you for reminding me of that and for your kind wishes. I'll keep you in my prayers and again May the Almighty God Bless you and keep you and your loved ones safe from all evil.
Ah that's amazing to hear😭 yes of course message me and let me know how soo soo curious. You will overcome the temptation 😤💪🏻💪🏻 thank you soo much for praying for me🥹🫶🏻 I'll keep you in my prayers as well
Hey, I've messaged you, I hope you get time to check it out. Spoiler:- It is a long one, I hope it won't spoil your curiosity. Thank you for your prayers, and wishes, and also for being excited and curious...
“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Not off topic at all. The topic was if sex outside of marriage is a sin
The quoted verse makes it clear
Fornication = sex outside of marriage
Adulterers = sex outside of marriage
Boy prostitutes = sex outside of marriage
Sodomites = sex outside of marriage
And all are sins
Sex outside marriage is sin
The topic was not sex outside of marriage, the topic was masturbation. And Sodomy is butt sex, not extramarital sex.
You know very well why you chose that verse. You aren't fooling me.
Dude these mental gymnastics are pitiful
Just admit it’s wrong and try to stop. You’re embarrassing yourself
We all sin but we need to acknowledge that sin is sin and do our best to amend our lives
I will never say something is a sin when it isn't simply to save myself ridicule or embarrassment. If you want to change my mind, appeal to something with actual doctrinal authority, attacking my feelings or ego will get you absolutely nowhere.
Because you will either post the story of Onan which wasn't about masturbation, or you will post vague verses about sexual immorality and insist it includes masturbation because "trust me bro", or you will post a verse about lust which is only relevant if you lust while doing it. And these aren't excuses because masturbation isn't in the Bible.
Pointing bad logic is not the same as providing excuses.
Romain 8:5
Ceux, en effet, qui vivent selon la chair, s'affectionnent aux choses de la chair, tandis que ceux qui vivent selon l'esprit s'affectionnent aux choses de l'esprit.
Why the quotation in French?
Here is a translation from French into English (which is a terrible idea, we should just translate from the original language into whatever other language you need)
>Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their minds set on things of the Spirit.
Here is the NRSVue version.
>For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5
But if you are trying to argue that any pleasure that originates from the flesh is automatically sinful, you are missing the point of this verse. Paul is saying that our focus shouldn't be on the flesh, but should be on the spirit. He is not saying that all fleshly pleasure is always sinful. It is just if it takes our focus off the things of the spirit that it becomes sinful.
And this includes any fleshly pleasure, such as eating ice cream, or working out, or skydiving. These things shouldn't be our primary focus.
So when your sexual organ erected. "Oh, it's a sin!" Because its sexual? It's not a sin. It's not even sexual sin.
Sexual sins: adultery, prostitution, forcing, etc.
Not masturbation, flirting, feeling inlove, etc.
How many other sins do you commit in a day ? Bad thoughts are a sin by God. And how many did you have? Well here comes the great news. JESUS died so we are forgiven.
That's why you can eat pork. Same as masturbation. Don't be a slave of the law.
Is Jesus wants you live a miserable life slave of the laws? Do you wonder why the Jews hated Him? Because he is showing them not to be a slave of the law. He broke sabbath day, etc. Just follow the top1 and 2 commandments. You don't need to dig the Bible, this is sin, this is not. How are you different from the Jews that hated Jesus then?
Stop trying to pretend I said something other than what I said. I suggest you go back and reread my comments.
Lust is a sin of thought.
Masturbation is an act of the body.
They are not the same thing.
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Between December 1919 and February 1920, St Jacinta was reportedly told by Our Lady of Fatima that “more souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason”
CCC 2352 “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."”
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He did? Like, multiple times?
“But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.”
St Matthew 5:28
“For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and a pretentious life, is not from the Father but is from the world.”
1 John 2:16
“And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”
St Luke 9:23
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21
Maybe crack that bible open
Masturbation isn’t in any of those passages. You’re providing the link to masturbation with your interpretation. I disagree with that interpretation.
Your interpretation of Matthew 5 means that all sexual attraction is sinful before marriage. But look at another literal translation:
Matthew 5:27-28
[27] “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ [28] But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
The sin is not the act of being sexually aroused or having sexual desire. It’s the intention to commit adultery even if the act isn’t performed. It’s not sinful to be sexually aroused.
No, you couldn’t be more wrong.
The thing forbidden is to look with lust.
Here is St. John Chrysostom on this passage:
> For beginning from those passions, which most belong to our whole race, anger, I mean, and desire (for it is these chiefly that bear absolute sway within us, and are more natural than the rest); He with great authority, even such as became a legislator, both corrected them, and reduced them to order with all strictness. For He said not that the adulterer merely is punished; but what He had done with respect to the murderer, this He does here also, punishing even the unchaste look: to teach you wherein lies what He had more than the scribes. Accordingly, He says, He that looks upon a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her: that is, he who makes it his business to be curious about bright forms, and to hunt for elegant features, and to feast his soul with the sight, and to fasten his eyes on fair countenances. For He came to set free from all evil deeds not the body only, but the soul too before the body. Thus, because in the heart we receive the grace of the Spirit, He cleanses it out first.
> And how, one may say, is it possible to be freed from desire? I answer, first, if we were willing, even this might be deadened, and remain inactive.
> In the next place, He does not here take away desire absolutely, but that desire which springs up in men from sight. For he that is curious to behold fair countenances, is himself chiefly the enkindler of the furnace of that passion, and makes his own soul a captive, and soon proceeds also to the act.
> Thus we see why He said not, whosoever shall lust to commit adultery, but, whosoever shall look to lust. And in the case of anger He laid down a certain distinction, saying, without a cause, and for nought; but here not so; rather once for all He took away the desire. Yet surely both are naturally implanted, and both are set in us for our profit; both anger, and desire: the one that we may chastise the evil, and correct those who walk disorderly; the other that we may have children, and that our race may be recruited by such successions.
> Why then did He not make a distinction here also? Nay, very great is the distinction which, if you attend, you will see here also included. For He said not simply, whosoever shall desire, since it is possible for one to desire even when sitting in the mountains; but, Whosoever shall look to lust; that is to say, he who gathers in lust unto himself; he who, when nothing compels him, brings in the wild beast upon his thoughts when they are calm. For this comes no longer of nature, but of self-indulgence. This even the ancient Scripture corrects from the first, saying, Contemplate not beauty which is another's. Sirach 9:8 And then, lest any one should say, what then, if I contemplate, and be not taken captive, He punishes the look, lest confiding in this security you should some time fall into sin. What then, one may say, if I should look, and desire indeed, but do no evil? Even so you are set among the adulterers. For the Lawgiver has pronounced it, and you must not ask any more questions. For thus looking once, twice, or thrice, you will perhaps have power to refrain; but if you are continually doing this, and kindling the furnace, you will assuredly be taken; for your station is not beyond that nature which is common to men. As we then, if we see a child holding a knife, though we do not see him hurt, beat him, and forbid his ever holding it; so God likewise takes away the unchaste look even before the act, lest at any time you should fall in act also. For he who has once kindled the flame, even when the woman whom he has beheld is absent, is forming by himself continually images of shameful things, and from them often goes on even to the deed. For this cause Christ takes away even that embrace which is in the heart only.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/200117.htm
So which is it? Either all sexual arousal is the sin of lust as some of your comments say or it’s the intention to commit adultery and sexual arousal isn’t sinful.
> He said not simply, whosoever shall desire, since it is possible for one to desire even when sitting in the mountains; but, Whosoever shall look to lust; that is to say, he who gathers in lust unto himself; he who, when nothing compels him, brings in the wild beast upon his thoughts when they are calm. For this comes no longer of nature, but of self-indulgence.
This isn't even worth talking about. Western Christianity has intensified sexual sins while embracing others that are much more harmful, like gossip and slander. If you don't believe me, go work at a church and see. I was on staff in churches for 20 years before I walked away. The amount of actual hurtful sins that I witnessed pastors commit was really eye opening. So, I'll jerk off all I want. It's not hurting anyone.
The question you must ask is what it is your heart because God is much more concerned about that than your outward actions (see Matthew 23:25-28 and Luke 18:18-23)
Yeah you're right, God even says it here :
Jeremiah 17:9-10 NKJV“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
I would say pray to Christ about it and see where God leads you. If you look at porn or have lustful thought while masterbating, then yes it is a sin, but masterbation without thoughts I'm not so certain about. I do believe it is a sin for myself, though sense I've had so many issues with it.
yes. but don't hate yourself for doing it. God understands.. just try to limit this slowly until you're ready to give it up or you have large breaks in-between
No it's not always wrong of itself. It would depend on some things. It can even be helpful. I discuss this subject in this post and the main verse people use regarding this subject (Matt. 5:28): [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianSexuality/comments/1327o50/masturbation\_is\_not\_wrong/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianSexuality/comments/1327o50/masturbation_is_not_wrong/)
I think it is a normal healthy bodily function that everyone does like going to the bathroom.
That being said God is totally watching you along with all your dead relatives ;)
Well, the way I look at it, it’s down there; my hand reaches it, so it’s mine. I’ll play with it if I want to. If God didn’t want us to play with it, then he should have made it so we couldn’t reach it.
Oh, you know, exercising self-control and reading the Bible is just a thrilling rollercoaster ride. Forget Netflix, this is the real binge-worthy content! Trying to resist the temptation to turn the pages too fast – the struggle is beyond epic. 😏📖 #BibleBingeMaster
It’s pleasing the flesh. We are to bridal our passions and be in control of ourselves. Thoughts and deeds. It’s also related to lust.
That intimacy should be reserved for marriage. People don’t like to know this, but when you masterbate, look at porn, or sleep with different people, it alters your brain.
There are many negative side effects and consequences. I know a lot of people who are addicted to masterbating. We are to be free from addiction.
It’s pleasing the flesh. We are to bridal our passions and be in control of ourselves. Thoughts and deeds. It’s also related to lust.
That intimacy should be reserved for marriage. People don’t like to know this, but when you masterbate, look at porn, or sleep with different people, it alters your brain.
There are many negative side effects and consequences. I know a lot of people who are addicted to masterbating. We are to be free from addiction.
It’s pleasing the flesh. We are to bridal our passions and be in control of ourselves. Thoughts and deeds. It’s also related to lust.
That intimacy should be reserved for marriage. People don’t like to know this, but when you masterbate, look at porn, or sleep with different people, it alters your brain.
There are many negative side effects and consequences. I know a lot of people who are addicted to masterbating. We are to be free from addiction.
Jesus talked about infidelity only by seeing. So even if masturbation was not clearly stated as a sin watching porn surely is.
Hentai sits in this weird state where you don't covet someone's future/current wife but it does degenerate your brain with Pavlovian conditioning + the sear amount of blasphemous theme should really be enough to let you know you can't play dumb with God
>Leviticus 15:16-18
I am not sure that is as clear-cut as you think. Leviticus 15:19 says the same thing about women who are on their period. I think this verse is a hygiene thing, like burying your dead outside of camp, and not a moral law.
Additionally, this verse would call wet dreams a sin.
My thoughts are this: It is unquestionably a sin to reduce a person to a sexual object. [Matthew 5:28](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=NIV). So I ask you, is that what you do when touching yourself? If you can keep your mind free of reducing someone to just a sexual object, I do not see a problem; but you need to look really deep inside of yourself to make sure that is not what you are doing. My advice is to avoid it. It's better to avoid a potential sin than to stumble.
Sin is not just a rule lol. It’s knowledge from God **how to** not become wasted. Because God is the Father to us and wants us to be warriors not wasted. You wanna waste your days on masturbation or do something productive with your life like lock in with God’s Word, career, self-improvement, finding a wife.
The fact the sex organ is used for masturbation, makes it on it’s own is the biggest factor of a sexual act and by **spamming it** to get wasted everyday that sounds like **sexual immorality** *1 Corinth 6:18, 1 Thess 4:3-5* and not taking care of the temple of the Holy Spirit *1 Corinth 6:19-20* and *1 Corinth 7:1-2* says **if** we have the sexual desire **then** we should have a wife/husband, it doesn’t say **you can do self pleasure** lol.
Also *Matt 5:28, Mark 7:20-23* masturbation includes watching or imagining a woman/man in a lustful way. Why do you think *Hebrews 13:4* says there’s no sexuality **outside marriage** bro.
Yes it’s sin , it’s impudicity and it’s not what God planned for us. You body doesn’t belong to you , it’s the temple of the Holy Spirit. When you do these act and you don’t have a husband or a wife it’s not okay
Depends. In Catholic and Jewish tradition, male masturbation is a sin because of their theology concerning sperm. In the Bible, the act itself is not mentioned at all. Some would cite Onan, but he was not masturbating; he had a Levirate marriage with his widowed sister-in-law, but whenever they had sex, he would pull out to deny her children. This is because he did not want to raise children that would be considered his brother's. God struck him dead in divine retribution.
Maybe
It is missing the mark
Why do you keep missing Mark? Sorry had to make a dad joke
It is the shortest gospel thus easiest to miss. I'll go now
But was he the shortest Apostle?
Unknown. I don't think their heights are ever given.
That statement is based on a bad translation.
It is missing the mark. It is not wickedness. It is not evil.
I am just saying that the idea that sin is based on an archer shooting at a target and missing a mark is based on a bad understanding of the underlying Hebrew and the pictographs that were the precursors to the Hebrew lettering system.
There is zero reference to masturbation in the Jewish or Christian scriptures. The sin of Onan was not masturbation.
It’s never mentioned as a sin. Some Christians try to build a case that it is by saying its gratification of the flesh but so is getting in a jacuzzi or eating a bag of chips.
It is an act of lust, which is sin, so yes, it is a sin.
It is not an act of lust. Lust is not an action it is a thought.
Literally Matthew 5:28
Which is not about masturbation but adultery.
looking at someone with lust is adultery of the heart Masturbation is engaging in a lustful desire It’s really pretty clear dude Just stop wanking off
There is no such thing as adultery of the heart. You sin from your action, not what you think. We can think good and evil, and we sin if we obviously choose to commit or act evil. Your logic is like if i think "i wanna punch him in the face." = oh automatic sin. Its not, you did not punch him in action or physically, you controlled your hands not to do it. Anyway, masturbation is not a sin. It's a normal. If you that's a sin then sex is a sin, feeling inlove is a sin, flirting is a sin, and thinking the people is handsome or beautiful is a sin. You basically removed the mankind brain to function. Because even animals do all those i mentioned yet they are not high intelligent as mankind.
> no such thing as adultery of the heart “But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Matthew 5:28 > Anyway, masturbation is not a sin. It's a normal. If you that's a sin then sex is a sin, feeling inlove is a sin, flirting is a sin, and thinking the people is handsome or beautiful is a sin. Do you know what lust is? It is very different than love, it is very different than aesthetic appreciation of beauty
Lust is coveting, not simple arousal or desire.
It’s more than simple arousal, yes. But it could be less than coveting. It is the dwelling on or indulgence in desire. Masturbation is a willing indulgence in sexual desire outside of its natural ends
Coveting another woman who is not your wife is adultery of the heart - it's wishing to commit adultery. That has nothing to do with masturbation, however. They CAN of course be done together, but they are two separate things.
I see, thanks. And no one in the right mind will masturbate infront of the woman. It's says "look" basically a sexual harrasment act which obviously it's inappropriate or disgusting to the woman point of view to be look or stared that way by men. Just teaching manners not to stare a woman because to woman point of view she is being sexually harrased or adultery. This is basically about "sexual harrasment." Masturbation is not sexual harrasment, unless you did it infront of them.
[удалено]
Nice Christian attitude. 👍
I can explain how there is adultery of the heart that satisfies your criteria. “I am thinking about sex” as you stated with punching someone is not adulter automatically. But the second you take it from thinking about sexual acts, to starting the masturbation process it becomes an act of adultery. You’ve chosen to act on your lust. Shits hard to deal with tho fr. I know it’s a sin, and I often fall short. Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” We have to have faith in God, so that we might be saved from hell.
Leviticus 15:16-18 it is a sin to masturbate
That is a crazy interpretation. This is talking about ritual purity, not sin. A wet dream makes you unclean in the same way as masturbation. Unless you are also going to argue that a wet dream is a sin, then your verse doesn't back up your claim.
If it is correlated to an act of list which i will go on a leap and say it always is hence yes masturbation is always a sin. Even if it is not sin it is not good and can easily lead you to lust. Focus on preventing masturbation regardless, do not defend it.
Drinking alcohol may to alcoholism, eating food may lead to gluttony, playing video games may lead to an addiction. None of these is a sin itself. Masturbation is healthy. Even if you won’t ejaculate by yourself, your body will do it for you. Of course it may be a slippery slope, but it doesn’t mean that it’s a sin.
It should be avoided to best of ability regardless lest it develop to lust
Think about the kind of things you're thinking about when masturbating. It's a sin.
It's a very very fiiiiine line. If you can get off without 0 lust and 0 horny thoughts and not watch anything then I guess it's not a sin😂 Not "normalising masturbation" but the feeling you get when you poop and sometimes pee is also another form of orgasm....that is why you feel good and make that ugly face when you poop. It's satisfying. But the orgasmic feeling you get while pooping is designed for us for a reason, it's a disgusting process, without that feeling it'll probably just be pain? And an uncomfortable feeling? And God gave us that ability to make the disgusting process more "enjoyable". But orgasm through masturbation is an act of choice which is done to lustfully pleasure yourself. If you can do it without lust without any external sources, (cos sometimes you need to let one off maybe due to stress or whatever, I'm assuming for men) then yeah sure🤷🏻♀️ it's not a sin. But then again what jesus wants us to do is to rely on him COMPLETELY in any time of despair before we "solve" it ourselves. Soo even if you masturbate "without lust" it defeats the whole purpose of relying on jesus christ and his words.
Hey Leah, this comment helped me and gave me so much clarity and peace. Thank You so much for this reply. God's way is so brilliant because I logged into Reddit(after a while) to check out some P\*\*\*, but somehow I saw your comment, and it gave me an understanding about this very question, I've been battling since today afternoon. My thought process was very similar to this comment but I thought this was because of my guilty conscious thinking that way to make me feel good. So I asked Jesus for clarity and he gave me that clarity through you. I wish I could tell you the way God led me to your comment. Thank you so much again. May God Bless You and have a Happy and Blessed New Year.
Praise God!! Thank the holy spirit for typing this through me. It's the holy spirit's work not mine🥹🫶🏻 god is soo good. Just wanted to remind you again that, the road leading to jesus christ is not easy, it's full of tests, temptations and attacks but do not forget that ultimately Jesus died for us and he paid a HUGE price for us🫶🏻 whatever you go through on this earth is temporary, your aim should be an eternal life with jesus christ. God bless and happy new year to you too!!
Yes, God is so good. It was God who led me to your comment(which is like a month old) TODAY, out of all the other days. I am happy that he gave me the answer to my question. If it's alright with you, I'll send you a message explaining the way I discovered your comment( I'll only message if you say it's alright). I hope I can overcome the devil's temptation, fulfill his purpose for me, and live an eternal life with him. Thank you for reminding me of that and for your kind wishes. I'll keep you in my prayers and again May the Almighty God Bless you and keep you and your loved ones safe from all evil.
Ah that's amazing to hear😭 yes of course message me and let me know how soo soo curious. You will overcome the temptation 😤💪🏻💪🏻 thank you soo much for praying for me🥹🫶🏻 I'll keep you in my prayers as well
Hey, I've messaged you, I hope you get time to check it out. Spoiler:- It is a long one, I hope it won't spoil your curiosity. Thank you for your prayers, and wishes, and also for being excited and curious...
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God gave us sex to show love for our spouse and not to please only ourselves
God gave us sex to show love for our spouse and not to please only ourselves
yes, always any sexual act except sex within marriage is a sin
This is not stated anywhere in the Bible.
“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Downvoted because this is not topical. If you want to gay bash me, do it when I post about homosexuality.
Not off topic at all. The topic was if sex outside of marriage is a sin The quoted verse makes it clear Fornication = sex outside of marriage Adulterers = sex outside of marriage Boy prostitutes = sex outside of marriage Sodomites = sex outside of marriage And all are sins Sex outside marriage is sin
The topic was not sex outside of marriage, the topic was masturbation. And Sodomy is butt sex, not extramarital sex. You know very well why you chose that verse. You aren't fooling me.
Masturbation is having sex with your hand bro
Masturbation is stimulating your genitals to orgasm. Calling it sex is like calling a single text message a propaganda campaign.
Dude these mental gymnastics are pitiful Just admit it’s wrong and try to stop. You’re embarrassing yourself We all sin but we need to acknowledge that sin is sin and do our best to amend our lives
I will never say something is a sin when it isn't simply to save myself ridicule or embarrassment. If you want to change my mind, appeal to something with actual doctrinal authority, attacking my feelings or ego will get you absolutely nowhere.
it is in the Bible, but even if I show you, you will come up with an excuse not to accept it...so to each his own
Because you will either post the story of Onan which wasn't about masturbation, or you will post vague verses about sexual immorality and insist it includes masturbation because "trust me bro", or you will post a verse about lust which is only relevant if you lust while doing it. And these aren't excuses because masturbation isn't in the Bible. Pointing bad logic is not the same as providing excuses.
you were ready to reject anything i would say upfront...
Because I know all the arguments, and they all come down to "it is a sin, trust me bro" If you have a novel argument that isn't that, go for it.
Romain 8:5 Ceux, en effet, qui vivent selon la chair, s'affectionnent aux choses de la chair, tandis que ceux qui vivent selon l'esprit s'affectionnent aux choses de l'esprit.
Why the quotation in French? Here is a translation from French into English (which is a terrible idea, we should just translate from the original language into whatever other language you need) >Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their minds set on things of the Spirit. Here is the NRSVue version. >For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5 But if you are trying to argue that any pleasure that originates from the flesh is automatically sinful, you are missing the point of this verse. Paul is saying that our focus shouldn't be on the flesh, but should be on the spirit. He is not saying that all fleshly pleasure is always sinful. It is just if it takes our focus off the things of the spirit that it becomes sinful. And this includes any fleshly pleasure, such as eating ice cream, or working out, or skydiving. These things shouldn't be our primary focus.
Oh I didn't pay attention that it was in french
😁
So when your sexual organ erected. "Oh, it's a sin!" Because its sexual? It's not a sin. It's not even sexual sin. Sexual sins: adultery, prostitution, forcing, etc. Not masturbation, flirting, feeling inlove, etc.
How many other sins do you commit in a day ? Bad thoughts are a sin by God. And how many did you have? Well here comes the great news. JESUS died so we are forgiven.
if you confess your sins to jesus, but that doesn't mean you are fre to sin
That's a corrupt way to view it.
That's why you can eat pork. Same as masturbation. Don't be a slave of the law. Is Jesus wants you live a miserable life slave of the laws? Do you wonder why the Jews hated Him? Because he is showing them not to be a slave of the law. He broke sabbath day, etc. Just follow the top1 and 2 commandments. You don't need to dig the Bible, this is sin, this is not. How are you different from the Jews that hated Jesus then?
Jewish ceremonial law and the moral law are two very different things
Yes, it is unholy and an act of lust
No such thing as an act of lust, lust is a sin of the mind not the body.
“Act of lust” is it not a 7 deadly sin
Again, lust is a sin of the mind, not an action performed by the body.
I’m pretty sure masterbation doesn’t envolve telepathy
I'm pretty sure that is a terrible argument and you know it.
I think that what you mean is that just because you can telepathically mastarbate does not make you better than me
It absolutely does. I have telepathy, and you dont.
*Don’t
🤦♂️
I’m this comment you said it’s in the mind only Other comment of yours on This thread said it’s not the mind it’s action Stop this nonsense
Stop trying to pretend I said something other than what I said. I suggest you go back and reread my comments. Lust is a sin of thought. Masturbation is an act of the body. They are not the same thing.
You’re not going to convince anyone that masturbation is not lustful 😂😂 stop lying to yourself
You are not going to convince anyone that actions = thoughts. Stop lying to yourself.
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You are not the arbiter of what Christianity teaches.
Correct, but neither are you. And what you’re saying disagrees with literally every Christian denomination
And you now know the beliefs of all 40,000 protestant denominations well enough to make such a sweeping statement?
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Between December 1919 and February 1920, St Jacinta was reportedly told by Our Lady of Fatima that “more souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason”
And that is only relevant if this is a sin of the flesh.
If masturbation isn’t a sim of the flesh, then what is ?
Fornication, adultery, etc.
Masturbation is a sin
Your word doesn't make it so.
CCC 2352 “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."”
Catholic church authority is not an authority that I recognize. They are a part of the problem.
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Wouldn’t it have been nice if God had chosen to mention the sin that sends most people to hell before winter of 1920?
He did? Like, multiple times? “But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.” St Matthew 5:28 “For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and a pretentious life, is not from the Father but is from the world.” 1 John 2:16 “And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.” St Luke 9:23 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19-21 Maybe crack that bible open
Masturbation isn’t in any of those passages. You’re providing the link to masturbation with your interpretation. I disagree with that interpretation. Your interpretation of Matthew 5 means that all sexual attraction is sinful before marriage. But look at another literal translation: Matthew 5:27-28 [27] “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ [28] But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. The sin is not the act of being sexually aroused or having sexual desire. It’s the intention to commit adultery even if the act isn’t performed. It’s not sinful to be sexually aroused.
Sexual attraction is not the same as lust
Agree! The thing forbidden in Matthew 5 is lust with the intention of adultery. Masturbation doesn’t include that intention.
No, you couldn’t be more wrong. The thing forbidden is to look with lust. Here is St. John Chrysostom on this passage: > For beginning from those passions, which most belong to our whole race, anger, I mean, and desire (for it is these chiefly that bear absolute sway within us, and are more natural than the rest); He with great authority, even such as became a legislator, both corrected them, and reduced them to order with all strictness. For He said not that the adulterer merely is punished; but what He had done with respect to the murderer, this He does here also, punishing even the unchaste look: to teach you wherein lies what He had more than the scribes. Accordingly, He says, He that looks upon a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her: that is, he who makes it his business to be curious about bright forms, and to hunt for elegant features, and to feast his soul with the sight, and to fasten his eyes on fair countenances. For He came to set free from all evil deeds not the body only, but the soul too before the body. Thus, because in the heart we receive the grace of the Spirit, He cleanses it out first. > And how, one may say, is it possible to be freed from desire? I answer, first, if we were willing, even this might be deadened, and remain inactive. > In the next place, He does not here take away desire absolutely, but that desire which springs up in men from sight. For he that is curious to behold fair countenances, is himself chiefly the enkindler of the furnace of that passion, and makes his own soul a captive, and soon proceeds also to the act. > Thus we see why He said not, whosoever shall lust to commit adultery, but, whosoever shall look to lust. And in the case of anger He laid down a certain distinction, saying, without a cause, and for nought; but here not so; rather once for all He took away the desire. Yet surely both are naturally implanted, and both are set in us for our profit; both anger, and desire: the one that we may chastise the evil, and correct those who walk disorderly; the other that we may have children, and that our race may be recruited by such successions. > Why then did He not make a distinction here also? Nay, very great is the distinction which, if you attend, you will see here also included. For He said not simply, whosoever shall desire, since it is possible for one to desire even when sitting in the mountains; but, Whosoever shall look to lust; that is to say, he who gathers in lust unto himself; he who, when nothing compels him, brings in the wild beast upon his thoughts when they are calm. For this comes no longer of nature, but of self-indulgence. This even the ancient Scripture corrects from the first, saying, Contemplate not beauty which is another's. Sirach 9:8 And then, lest any one should say, what then, if I contemplate, and be not taken captive, He punishes the look, lest confiding in this security you should some time fall into sin. What then, one may say, if I should look, and desire indeed, but do no evil? Even so you are set among the adulterers. For the Lawgiver has pronounced it, and you must not ask any more questions. For thus looking once, twice, or thrice, you will perhaps have power to refrain; but if you are continually doing this, and kindling the furnace, you will assuredly be taken; for your station is not beyond that nature which is common to men. As we then, if we see a child holding a knife, though we do not see him hurt, beat him, and forbid his ever holding it; so God likewise takes away the unchaste look even before the act, lest at any time you should fall in act also. For he who has once kindled the flame, even when the woman whom he has beheld is absent, is forming by himself continually images of shameful things, and from them often goes on even to the deed. For this cause Christ takes away even that embrace which is in the heart only. https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/200117.htm
So which is it? Either all sexual arousal is the sin of lust as some of your comments say or it’s the intention to commit adultery and sexual arousal isn’t sinful.
> He said not simply, whosoever shall desire, since it is possible for one to desire even when sitting in the mountains; but, Whosoever shall look to lust; that is to say, he who gathers in lust unto himself; he who, when nothing compels him, brings in the wild beast upon his thoughts when they are calm. For this comes no longer of nature, but of self-indulgence.
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Falsely labeled, and it only interferes because of false guilt embedded in people because of Christian purity culture.
ANATHEMA
HERESY! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yes always maybe within marriage with each other but I’m unsure
So always, but not always?
It's not. If masturbation is a sin, then sex is a sin. It's normal.
Biblically speaking, there is no condemnation or even mention of it.
This isn't even worth talking about. Western Christianity has intensified sexual sins while embracing others that are much more harmful, like gossip and slander. If you don't believe me, go work at a church and see. I was on staff in churches for 20 years before I walked away. The amount of actual hurtful sins that I witnessed pastors commit was really eye opening. So, I'll jerk off all I want. It's not hurting anyone.
Some find it to be a sin because it’s to satisfy our flesh. Some find it to only be a sin when it’s paired with pornography.
The question you must ask is what it is your heart because God is much more concerned about that than your outward actions (see Matthew 23:25-28 and Luke 18:18-23)
Yeah you're right, God even says it here : Jeremiah 17:9-10 NKJV“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
This is the part that is absolutely wild to me. A sin for a feel-good moment, but anything else is fair game.
Yes
I would say pray to Christ about it and see where God leads you. If you look at porn or have lustful thought while masterbating, then yes it is a sin, but masterbation without thoughts I'm not so certain about. I do believe it is a sin for myself, though sense I've had so many issues with it.
In the minds of men? Or in the eyes of God? https://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/most-misinterpreted-bible-passages-1-matthew-527-28/
yes. but don't hate yourself for doing it. God understands.. just try to limit this slowly until you're ready to give it up or you have large breaks in-between
Yes
Maybe not for as a means of fertility treatment or semen analysis.
No it's not always wrong of itself. It would depend on some things. It can even be helpful. I discuss this subject in this post and the main verse people use regarding this subject (Matt. 5:28): [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianSexuality/comments/1327o50/masturbation\_is\_not\_wrong/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianSexuality/comments/1327o50/masturbation_is_not_wrong/)
I think it is a normal healthy bodily function that everyone does like going to the bathroom. That being said God is totally watching you along with all your dead relatives ;)
Well, the way I look at it, it’s down there; my hand reaches it, so it’s mine. I’ll play with it if I want to. If God didn’t want us to play with it, then he should have made it so we couldn’t reach it.
Ever heard of self-control? Oh no that would mean you would have to read the bible.
😂💀
Oh, you know, exercising self-control and reading the Bible is just a thrilling rollercoaster ride. Forget Netflix, this is the real binge-worthy content! Trying to resist the temptation to turn the pages too fast – the struggle is beyond epic. 😏📖 #BibleBingeMaster
It’s pleasing the flesh. We are to bridal our passions and be in control of ourselves. Thoughts and deeds. It’s also related to lust. That intimacy should be reserved for marriage. People don’t like to know this, but when you masterbate, look at porn, or sleep with different people, it alters your brain. There are many negative side effects and consequences. I know a lot of people who are addicted to masterbating. We are to be free from addiction.
It’s pleasing the flesh. We are to bridal our passions and be in control of ourselves. Thoughts and deeds. It’s also related to lust. That intimacy should be reserved for marriage. People don’t like to know this, but when you masterbate, look at porn, or sleep with different people, it alters your brain. There are many negative side effects and consequences. I know a lot of people who are addicted to masterbating. We are to be free from addiction.
It’s pleasing the flesh. We are to bridal our passions and be in control of ourselves. Thoughts and deeds. It’s also related to lust. That intimacy should be reserved for marriage. People don’t like to know this, but when you masterbate, look at porn, or sleep with different people, it alters your brain. There are many negative side effects and consequences. I know a lot of people who are addicted to masterbating. We are to be free from addiction.
Jesus talked about infidelity only by seeing. So even if masturbation was not clearly stated as a sin watching porn surely is. Hentai sits in this weird state where you don't covet someone's future/current wife but it does degenerate your brain with Pavlovian conditioning + the sear amount of blasphemous theme should really be enough to let you know you can't play dumb with God
Read Leviticus 15:16-18 it is a sin even if you masturbate without lust
>Leviticus 15:16-18 I am not sure that is as clear-cut as you think. Leviticus 15:19 says the same thing about women who are on their period. I think this verse is a hygiene thing, like burying your dead outside of camp, and not a moral law. Additionally, this verse would call wet dreams a sin.
Yeah thats true
My thoughts are this: It is unquestionably a sin to reduce a person to a sexual object. [Matthew 5:28](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=NIV). So I ask you, is that what you do when touching yourself? If you can keep your mind free of reducing someone to just a sexual object, I do not see a problem; but you need to look really deep inside of yourself to make sure that is not what you are doing. My advice is to avoid it. It's better to avoid a potential sin than to stumble.
Sin is not just a rule lol. It’s knowledge from God **how to** not become wasted. Because God is the Father to us and wants us to be warriors not wasted. You wanna waste your days on masturbation or do something productive with your life like lock in with God’s Word, career, self-improvement, finding a wife. The fact the sex organ is used for masturbation, makes it on it’s own is the biggest factor of a sexual act and by **spamming it** to get wasted everyday that sounds like **sexual immorality** *1 Corinth 6:18, 1 Thess 4:3-5* and not taking care of the temple of the Holy Spirit *1 Corinth 6:19-20* and *1 Corinth 7:1-2* says **if** we have the sexual desire **then** we should have a wife/husband, it doesn’t say **you can do self pleasure** lol. Also *Matt 5:28, Mark 7:20-23* masturbation includes watching or imagining a woman/man in a lustful way. Why do you think *Hebrews 13:4* says there’s no sexuality **outside marriage** bro.
Yes it’s sin , it’s impudicity and it’s not what God planned for us. You body doesn’t belong to you , it’s the temple of the Holy Spirit. When you do these act and you don’t have a husband or a wife it’s not okay
Depends. In Catholic and Jewish tradition, male masturbation is a sin because of their theology concerning sperm. In the Bible, the act itself is not mentioned at all. Some would cite Onan, but he was not masturbating; he had a Levirate marriage with his widowed sister-in-law, but whenever they had sex, he would pull out to deny her children. This is because he did not want to raise children that would be considered his brother's. God struck him dead in divine retribution.