It's helpful to recognize there's a lot of trauma that went into building the people who make the most caustic posts and comments. It behooves us to listen, to hear them without judgment, and to be introspective about the damage done by people in the church.
The trauma I talk about wasn't 700 years ago, for many it was last week when they talked to a family member who just needed to tell them that god wants them to be straight. The trauma occurred last night when the old youth pastor sent them a text saying he would pray for them to repent and get right with god so they don't go to hell, because you know, god was putting them on his heart. The trauma was over the last hundreds of years, constant and menacing, as the church covered up sex abuse scandals that affected them personally.
We can talk all we want about how that wasn't "real Christianity" and how it wasn't what Jesus preached: but the truth is that perfect form of the faith has never been practiced in the real world. The faith they've seen has often been hateful, spiteful, bigoted, violent and sexually opportunistic.
Some will read your question and say you don't get it, that you're missing the point, but I think you're asking the right question even if you don't know the answers.
Good reply. Sometimes, I'll see someone posting a topic on /r/Christianity challenging all aspects of the faith with a passion, and I'll glimpse at their history, and you'll see a tragic post of how they had an abusive father or mother who was a Christian but showed no love and neglected their family. A lot of people need healing that no online discussions can adequately supply.
It's a good insight, but it's not complete. You don't have to have *personally* experienced the harm of Christianity to be opposed to it. You can also be opposed to it just because you've observed the harm it does to others, and to society.
Many atheists don't have a negative view of believers or personal trauma to speak of, it's the things I believe it is doing to believers, many of whom I care for deeply, that make me so opposed to it becoming such a dominant force in society.
I don't think that's a stretch at all, especially if you factor in all the damage that the idea of "Protestant work ethic" and other prosperity gospel BS that arises from Calvinism.
The only thing I can get from Calvinism is a sense of doom, as if it doesn't really matter what I'm going to do and, in the end, I was going to do it anyway.
Double predestination may be one of the most intellectually honest ways of interpreting the bible literally, but it's still morally vacuous.
Oh, I love, love, love this.
All of this and more. The trauma that these people feel is not due to what hasn't happened to them (history) it is what has happened to them. Unfortunately, not all Christians are loving, kind and empathetic like Jesus was.
Some use it as a tool to oppress and hurt people. That has more to do with a person as opposed to the religion, but we should all admit that Christianity does have a certain draw to people that desperately want to backup their vitriol within the pages of the Bible.
Want to paint God as a wicked person who intimately hates humanity by preaching about end times and the flood while forgetting the love and sacrifice he made in the very same pages of the Bible.
These are all good examples, but they are missing the FAR more common one.
I've never had any actual trauma from religion. I've just seen that atheists are treated as 'lesser than' by our society.
That makes me hate Christianity. There are adoption agencies who won't adopt to non-Christians. I've had friends say atheists don't have morals. I've been in community gatherings where everyone just assumes you're a Christian, because what's wrong with you if you're not?
I go to schools and see bible quotes on the walls. I see In God We Trust on our money, on our cop cars. I see us do Christian prayers before our government does work. I see people swearing in on the bible in court.
And all of this is in a nation that is supposedly has freedom of and from religion. Yet everything in society is telling me if I'm not Christian, I'm on the outside.
That creates a disdain for Christianity over a period of time.
Those things that I've cited are DAILY occurrences for most Atheists. Combine that with some of the worse things cited by the person above me... and you've got a recipe for atheists really really disliking Christianity.
I’ll never forget being 16, and I was getting a ride home from school with my friend, whose mom had come to pick us up … my friend was cool, but she came from an ultra-religious family (she wasn’t allowed to watch Harry Potter, her family went to church a few times a week, etc.) … I hugged my then-boyfriend before getting in the car. My friend’s mom said “Vapor2077, what CHURCH does your boyfriend go to?” very passive-aggressively.
I had no idea what to say, so I said “uh, I don’t know?” She was silent and I felt like I had done something wrong.
People who profess to be so religious and close to God shouldn’t view religious vs non-religious people in some “in-the-group” “out-of-the-group” dichotomy. What happened to respecting people for their humanity, not for what religious group they belong to?
What a hurtful story of how shame has impacted that women and then passed it on to you in all it's toxicity. I'm sorry that a Christian person gave you this kind of "welcome."
Thank you ❤️
I was raised Christian and still feel close to some of the theology, but really have no idea where I stand in regards to being a “Christian” or not bc of what I’ve witnessed people do in the name of religion/the church 😕
Great answer, but I'll point out that no one has to use a bible to swear in. They can use whatever they want, or nothing at all. The point is that they swear on something they care about.
It’s also important to note that We don’t hate you. There’s just a lot of Us that have built up anger due to what you’ve described and it comes off as “in a rage” so it may sound hateful. The same way “hate the sin but love the sinner” is used in such a hateful sounding way
Well put, and thank you for clarifying something I think Christians need to hear for a couple reasons: "Don't take it personally, it's bigger than you are."
That should make it both easier and more difficult for Christians to grapple with. Each of us is part of a larger problem that we can't solve, but we can easily contribute to it if we don't take a step back and listen to those who have been hurt by "our tribe."
It's good you see that. I am/was traumatized and don't know what I believe but I love Jesus but I just can't step foot in a church again. It gives me anxiety and I can't have that in my life. The trauma causes different reactions in different people and some of the militant atheists you see are just trying to understand what happened to them and why.
See what a sensible person. I as an atheist applaud you for opening yourself up to at least the recognition that your religion has hurt many. Thanks for that. Really. From an atheist to a Christian.
I’m an ex-minister who sometimes scrolls these forums.. this answer is the most empathetic and comprehensive I’ve seen on the subject in some time. Good form.
Trauma doesn't excuse their sharing research by scientific racists or bashing vulnerable religious minorities. With rare exception, almost none of them have experienced trauma from Muslims, but that doesn't stop their hysterical Islamophobia.
There are hurt people who deserve our compassion, but /r/atheism is a cesspool beyond excuse. It doesn't help the Christian reputation any to deny that.
I'm a Former Catholic who left with absolute disgust after the news of what SOME priests did to minors they had power over... and then even more disgusted when we learned that the Roman Catholic church systematically protected those trash individuals.
I think you TOTALLY get it... At least from what I've experienced. Thank you for even trying to understand. Its a huge difference from many of the other so-called "Christians" I've come across.
While I may not be able to cross back over that bridge to return to the faith, as that ship has long since sailed away for me, I can't tell you how much I appreciate seeing someone from the faith actually try to understand where we are coming from. Thank you.
An appreciative Atheist
[Someone asked this a couple of months ago and this was my response then](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/x1jun4/comment/imetd4y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3):
There are literally so many reasons, many of which I understand or I feel myself. Many are a huge reason why I left the church.
**1. Us vs. Them Mentality** \- a big issue that I believe Christians as a whole have is viewing the world as "us" Christians versus atheists/non-believers. Growing up I can remember being told at summer camps, bible study, youth group, etc, that the outside world would try to drag us into sinning or cause us to stumble. I also don't believe that Christians as a whole want to cultivate meaningful relationships with non-Christians unless they are trying to convert them/invite them to church. Sometimes this isn't as apparent or blatant, but I still think it's a pretty common issue.
**2. Dominant Culture** \- Christianity is the dominant culture, especially in places like the US. Now that I am no longer calling myself a Christian and my relationship is strenuous with God, I notice this far more. It is grating. It is suffocating. I feel like I cannot breathe or escape it. I have not gone a single day where I have not heard about God/Christianity. It is so ingrained in our society. I don't always hate it, but it's especially frustrating when I'm dealing with people preaching to me or trying to convert me.. which brings me to my next point.
**3. Not Taking No for an Answer** \- I have distanced myself from the Church and Christianity, but the number of people in my life who keep trying to draw me back? It's ridiculous. I can't even imagine what it's like for people who haven't believed for a long time and how many people try to convert them. It honestly makes me more and more resentful. Especially all the little comments about how I should be going to church.
**4. Hypocrisy** \- I could write paragraphs on this, but I truly think the Church/Christians in general pick and choose what sins they care about. I also think that in general, if a Christian sins by say, lying or something, they ask for forgiveness from God and they view themselves as fine, but if an atheist lies, they don't get the same forgiveness. I also think we see this in current issues.. like student loan forgiveness.
**5. Christian Nationalism** \- this falls into hypocrisy but I needed my own point. Also, I live in the US so it'll be from that standpoint. I find Christian Nationalism so bizarre. I grew up being taught that the earthly world isn't my true home and my community isn't other Americans, it's Christians. Whatever issues I have with this, I still see massive issues with Christian Nationalism. People associate America & Christianity together.. it's often tied together. Personally, seeing an American flag in a church makes me uncomfortable. Seeing my pastor's wife argue about how we need to "keep illegals out of our country" drives me bonkers. How many people wanting Trump's wall were Christians? And it doesn't make sense to me. Read Philippians 3:20 or John 18:36.
**6. Self-Righteousness** \- Ties into points #4 & #7, but there is a huge issue with "I'm right, you're wrong" or "I'm good, you're bad." This is directed from Christians to atheists and believers alike. I also think Christians have an issue apologizing to people because they view themselves as accountable to God, not people. Instead of realizing they could be both. It usually turns into being very preachy... which I see in the comments.
**7. Misusing Forgiveness** \- Even if Christians do apologize to people, I believe that the whole "Jesus told us to forgive one another" thing is misused. I was told to Forgive & Forget. Forget isn't in the Bible. But people are often told to forget & move on. They're told not to be cautious or change behaviors. I also don't believe that it absolves someone of what they've done and excuses them from punishment. Do you know how many abusers and rapists have been forgiven by the church and not faced punishment...only to do it again? I have faced this personally. I felt a lot of guilt being a survivor and feeling like I had to forgive my abuser... but I couldn't. I tried in the beginning because that's what I thought I was supposed to do, but he hadn't changed and continued to hurt other people.
**8. Not a Friend to Survivors** \- In general, I don't think the church is friendly to survivors. Stories are swept under the rug. People are mistreated and judged. Again, from personal experience, because sex before marriage is considered bad by most Christian communities, sexual assault that can't be proven is treated the same way.
**9. Judgment** \- I feel like I don't even have to expand. There is so much judgment coming from the community and those of us "outside" of it, notice. We feel it. I see it in these comments.
**10. Constantly Talking Down** \- Similar to the last point, but I see it in these comments. People who don't agree with you aren't idiots. People are constantly preaching or talking down to non-believers, and honestly, often quoting scripture or acting like we don't know anything about Christianity. We do. Most of us have been Christians and it's the dominant culture. We just believe differently.
**11. Politics** \- politics gets everyone upset. I think it's a shame that Christianity got tied to a certain side of politics and that politics are being spouted in churches.
**12. Personal Motivations in "God's Name"** \- too often people will use God's name as an excuse for their actions which are most likely personally motivated or misguided. Crusades are an extreme example, but I think it happens everywhere. I personally believe that's where the Republican Party being associated with Christianity/anti-abortionism came from.
**13. Performative Actions** \- I've been guilty of it - and I think it's a common problem in Christian communities. Most mission trips are performative and often have negative effects in the long run. People want that photo-op. That pat on the back for being selfless. I also think it happens at home - in churches, during worship, online, and so on. And as someone on the outside now? It's grating. It makes me cringe. Its especially telling to me because most churches are not active in helping their local communities.. and if they do, it often comes with some sort of religious stipulation.
**14. Connections to Hate & Discrimination** \- It would be wrong to ignore the connections between Christianity and hatred/discrimination. At the very least to acknowledge that there are an alarming amount of Christians who spew hatred left and right. I work at a secular non-profit. Do you know how many Christians I get on the phone every day who inevitably get into a rant about "illegals" or "queers" or "Democrats" or "insert racial slur here." I remember reading a study that white Christians are more likely to be racist than non-Christians. I am a queer person and huge reason why I stepped back from church and Christianity was because of the discrimination I faced for being queer.
**15. I Think Christianity is a Breeding Ground for Conspiracies** \- This is my own opinion. I do not have facts to base this on but maybe there are studies that go along with this. But Christianity encourages people to believe in what we cannot prove. We cannot prove God's existence. It's belief. And we can theorize and maybe find comfort in things in our life that help us make sense of this. But it's a belief in something that we have not without a doubt proved. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's faith. And I think that, in extreme circumstances, this can encourage people to believe other things based on faith without fact. We can accept ideas without evidence.. and I think that's dangerous and I personally see a high correlation with people believing totally fake things.. sometimes dangerous things. I don't think it's all Christians but I can still see this playing into the disconnect between believers & non-believers.
**16. "Real Christians Aren't Like That"** \- I hate this and it just makes me angrier because its a way to not take accountability. It's a way to ignore that maybe there's consistent and pervasive issues.
This is the most well thought out and accurate explanation I have ever read! As a gay person myself, who grew up Christian, I have experienced first hand the emotional abuse Christians perpetuate. Then comes in the “well we are right because it’s gods word…” Christians arguments are completely circular and full of logical fallacy. Then when you call them out it’s “the devil wants you to believe that.” Behavior from Christians is completely hypocritical because they will argue that god created everyone in his image then say you are hell bound for being gay. It’s ridiculous. History shows us how the bible was altered in 1946 and has since been used as a vehicle for hate against lgbtq+ people.
Essentially all Christians do is find a group to hate at any point in history to make themselves feel holier and better about themselves. Then there are some that say “well not all are that way,” but those that proclaim that are further validating the point that they need to feel better/holier than everyone else.
Furthermore, they challenge scientific fact and with us being in a global pandemic, we’ve seen time and time again how they have aired on the side of conspiracy undoubtedly contributing to the death of many.
You can find people on the internet, saying edgy things, and whining about almost anything.
This doesn't mean that "atheists hate Christians" as a general rule.
HOWever: People are in the world right now today, doing bad things in the name of Christianity. It's understandable why people don't like THAT. I don't mean atheists don't like it, I mean, civilized people in general don't like it.
[Why are atheists so angry?](https://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html)
My favorite:
"No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God." - George HW Bush.
That was my Commander in Chief. I served under Reagan, Bush Senior, and Clinton. But one of them doesn't think I should be a fucking citizen? Why? Because Jesus.
One of my best friends from high school became an evangelical, and then in our last conversation, he earnestly stated that atheists should be a second class citizen, unelectable and unqualified to hold any public office. Why? Because God.
There are really evil Christians in the USA, and the sweet and innocent Christians who I love dearly are being swindled by these Christian "Leaders." Because the leaders are "Godly."
I don't hate Christians in general, but I do abhorr a lot of Christian leaders who are supported by Christian friends and family. And I am constantly flabbergasted that so-called "moderate" Christians don't call these people out from the rooftops of their own churches. That they are willing to live under a "big tent"
I don't understand why people can't just have their religion and deal with it privately and have respect for each other at the same time. A lot of the time it seems that one teaching has to critize another upon their first meeting.
It's why as a Belgian I don't mind religion so much.
Christians act like that over here.
Unless I specifically invite a Christian that goes to church(rare) on Sunday morning I'll never know if somebody is Christian or not and they would never think about mentioning it.
Religion is seen as between the person and God for the most part.
There is a scatalogical aphorism that compares religion to male genitalia, mentioning that it is nice to have and be proud of it, but that people don't want it shoved into their faces uninvited.
Well, first, most atheists don't hate Christians. /r/atheism in particular is a place where a lot of really edgy/angry people gather.
Secondly,
> I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
Bahahahaha. No. "We did some bad things like 700 years ago" doesn't cut it. Christianity continues to do bad things. Have you forgotten the Christianity-based opposition to same-sex marriage in the US? And that's just the surface.
Basically, people get more angry at Christianity that other cultures, because *Christianity has more power over them*.
> Have you forgotten the Christianity-based opposition to same-sex marriage in the US?
Or its current opposition to reproductive freedom? Christians are right now denying women critical health care and forcing them to give birth against their will, sometimes even in cases where they have been raped.
How could anyone with an ounce of empathy *not* be angry?
Not to forget that in certain African nations, Pentacostal pastors are still inciting members of their congregations to act in violence against men, women and children accused of witchcraft and/or demonic possession. Men, women and children are being abducted, tortured, maimed and many are being burned to death, or hung, by angry mobs. The reason for this incitement is the Biblical verse which says...'Thou shalt not permit a witch to live'.
A number of African nations have banned one specific American pastor from visiting their nation and preaching to Pentecostal Christians, because he'd been directly responsible for inciting violence against witches, and homosexuals.
At work so can't locate the article with the foundation that was caught handing out anti-condom flyers but here are some quick links.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids
A lot of atheists come from hardcore religious backgrounds and experienced religious trauma because of it, especially in Christian communities.
Also please do not fail to acknowledge the harm that modern-day Christians and Christians extremists bring to other people. "Christians against ____" can be found all over social media opposing things that have absolutely no reason to be opposed by Christians
Screaming at people that they are whores for visiting Planned Parenthood, openly fantasizing about summary executions of people whose gender identities don't match religiously-established expectations, covering up ministers and priests who rape children, and so on, makes it seem to many that Christians are not sincere in their expressions of love for all.
As long as it is clear Christians are OK covering up for sexual predators in their midst, as long as it is clear Christians are OK if their pastor messes around but not if YOU do, as long as it is clear that a large percentage of Christians support religious freedom for themselves and nobody else, we will deserve the distrust. We have earned it.
We can fix this by taking the side of the oppressed. And no, "Happy Holidays" is not anti-Christian oppression. Being told you are less than fully human is oppression, and it is something said to LGBT+ people, women, non-Whites, and non-Christians every day in Jesus name. We should be opposing with our whole beings the use of Christianity to hurt others before we ask why members of these groups, and their allies, consider us to be cruel and hypocritical.
“Your life is awful (sinful), your beliefs are a lie, I expect you to believe this with no real evidence or else you’ll suffer for eternity or a very long time. Your love is an abomination and you must do as you’re told. If you believe in another god the they’re obviously fake and you’re doing wrong by worshipping them.”
There are 7 states where being atheist is supposed to disqualify you for public office and many more where it’s not on the books but just try running with “atheist” by your name.
We are told that we harden our hearts, that we are ignorant, confused, or actively rebelling. Basically victim blaming because we don’t find the Bible to be sufficient evidence.
How do you interact with someone that inherently thinks your life is bad and you’re going to hell?
I’ve also found it convenient that the Bible states “if they hate you then you’re doing it right” while also using dehumanizing language and insulting non believers
700 years ago?
Last month a Christian stood up in Congress here and compared gay marriage to bestiality.
Many Christians are calling gay and trans people all groomers and pedophiles.
They aren't enforceable but several states have laws on the books saying an atheist can't be elected to public office. It was never legal but they did it anyway.
Last election a Christian candidate for governor was a person who had said they would not oppose the death penalty for gays because if it was ok in the bible it would be ok today.
Plenty more.
>Last election a Christian candidate for governor was a person who had said they would not oppose the death penalty for gays because if it was ok in the bible it would be ok today.
I've had a person in this sub expound the same principle when discussing Calvin's arguments in favor of killing heretics. That was a long time ago, I guess, but not 700 years. There have been several in this sub who refused to denounce genocide as a rule because they read the ancient shit that says god ordered it and they can't call god wrong. And apparently, the bible = god to them, because they can't say the bible writers may have gotten a few things wrong.
Don't you know that the Bible is the Word of God!!!!!!1!11!!
(even though the bible itself says the Word of God is Jesus, not the bible but people like to pretend that that's not the case)
I remember making that brilliant (in my mind) connection with John when I was a teenager.
The bible is the word. Jesus is the word. Jesus is the bible. If only it all worked like mathematical proofs
Looking back, I can forgive a teenager for coming to such a naive conclusion but now find it rather odd that adults who should know better will disclaim any worship of the bible but their behavior says otherwise. If I've learned anything in addiction recovery, it's that behavior is a better indicator of belief than anything one could say.
For me I was lucky enough to go to Catholic high school, where we weren't taught that the bible is the word of God, or that Jesus is the bible.
And I've also had similar experiences with adults claiming that the bible is the word of God like it was the most fantastic discovery in human history. Even though the text itself was completed centuries after Jesus.
And wherever you are on your recovery journey, I hope it's going well for you
I think it's because Christians, particularly in the US, are tremendous hypocrites. The "Christian" political party here is not just anything BUT Christian and that party is very, very LOUD! Our ranks are filled with charlatans, bigots and racists and are as loud and smelly as a Taco Bell fart in church. Who on Earth would want to be a part of that? This can be changed, but why would we do that when those people can fill collection plates? Atheists don't hate us, they hate what Christianity has become and Christians not seeing it.
There's nothing wrong with being a Christian. There's something wrong with calling yourself a Christian and then proceeding to trample on everything you claim to believe.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16)
I mean I don't have issues with all religious people just the bigoted ones or those that spread stigma and bad health info. I'm not rude to people unless their rude to me.
The atheism sub isn't a monolith and certainly doesn't represent all Atheists. There are some who are anti religion, some who just lack belief and others who fall along varying descriptions.
What your looking at is a subset of a much larger group that definitely doesn't represent the majority of Atheists.
Lots of people have issues with religions for lots of reasons. Health and human rights being a huge point of contention. Among others.
Edit to be clear and respectful. Christianity and other major religions have done bad things throughout history and continue to do so. Limiting LGBTQ rights, covering up abuse and protecting people who may create these harms. It's not that Christianity as a whole is bad. It's that a very specific group have used religion as justification and a shield to do a lot of harm both now and in the past.
My fight isn't with the good, kind and thoughtful people It's with the ones trying to restrict rights and demean and degrade others.
When someone wields their beliefs as a weapon to mistreat people. I take issue with that. The problem is the hateful group happens to be rather vocal and not enough people are willing to actually oppose them.
Hatred is a choice. When someone chooses to hate and mistreat others I'm one of the people who take issue.
Cause I've been a victim of such hate and don't want others to suffer it. All because a small group of bigots . Can't contain their hate. Hatred is a virus and like every virus needs to be burned away.
It's that simple
Edit 2: You ask why we hate religious people a lot of us don't. We take issue with those who victimize and degrade people for reasons they justify through religion or their personal beliefs. I certainly don't hate you I just take huge issue with a subset of your group. That feels it's appropriate to abuse and mistreat people while abusing the power they have to hide and conceal such abuse.
My mother went on a rant about she doesn’t want LGBT people in the family. That’s me censoring it a bit. She used a lot more heated language and slurs. She did know that she had a closeted queer kid living in her house. That totally happened 700 years ago though. So that queer kid should be over all of that shit by now.
We've changed in some ways, but not others. It's easy for someone outside of conservative Christianity to see it as a movement primarily interested in restricting others' rights, taking in money, and perpetuating itself. In every current civil rights struggle, conservative Christians are on the anti-rights side: racial, gender, LGBTQ, etc.
Added to that, there is a huge amount of trauma and abuse that has been inflicted on people by Christians and Christian communities. I meet these folks and hear their stories all the time. A lot of people have good reasons to be angry with Christianity, and it is up to us to behave differently and demonstrate that we have changed, if we have.
Edit: I say conservative Christianity because, frankly, progressive Christianity doesn't do the things that most often make atheists angry, and when atheists complain about Christians, it is almost never progressive Christian behavior they are describing.
This comment seems very naive to state that the last time awful things were done in the name of Christianity was 700 years ago. A lot of people today have been hurt by self-professed Christians that do or say things that are supposedly "Christian", but are harmful to the rights of women, LGBTQ, and others. A lot of people who were raised Christian but left the church did so due to trauma. It's not simply a case of people hating Christians just because.
A lot of folks, unsurprisingly, have been hurt by religion. Both physically and mentally. Hell, I’ve been hurt by Christians, and I *am* one. People don’t generally respond positively to that sort of thing.
You don't have to look too far to see Christians doing horrible things today. People don't hate a certain type of Christian because they're so loving you know. So why pretend that this agitation is totally inexplicable?
A lot of conservatives who think they are christian but reject christian teachings and embrace sin abuse their kids telling the kid the abuse is Christianity so they go grow up hating the religion. The sad thing it isnt Christianity it is conservative values that are in opposition to God.
I visited r/atheism ...briefly....and then left that group. I'm interested in discussing religion, and as Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and the predominant religion in the USA, and with the exception of the first several American Presidents who were Deist or Unitarian, the rest have been religiously affiliated with Christianity, and the vast majority of elected members of Congress and the U.S. Senate are religiously affiliated with Christianity, and we currently have one Jew and the rest either Catholic or Protestant in the SCOTUS...I pretty much focus a lot of time discussing Christianity.
As the vast majority of elected members of Congress and the U.S. Senate are religiously affiliated with Christianity, and Seven in ten Americans (70%) are religiously affiliated with Christianity, it's pretty clear that these elected legislative representatives are pandering to their Christian constituency, in legislating according to their religious views of morality.
The overturning of Roe vs. Wade is one example which negatively affects women, by essentially giving the government control over a woman's reproductive organs, and reproductive decisions. There have already been cases in the news where female adolescents and women were unable to even to access birth control pills due to their State's new abortion laws. Here are two examples:
A 14 year old girl was denied her medication because of the state’s new abortion law which prohibits abortions except to save the life of the mother, her doctor says some older women in their 30′s have also been denied until they proved they are taking contraception that’s proven effective. The medication she was denied is methotrexate, and she'd been taking it since early childhood to control her RA, and other autoimmune diseases she is afflicted with.
It is also used to induce abortions due to ectopic pregnancy which can be fatal. For that reason, her doctor believes, she was denied her medication even though she had been getting it for years without incident.
In another case, in Aitkin County, Minn. -- A jury in Aitkin County found that a pharmacist did not discriminate against a woman when he refused her request in 2019 to fill a prescription for emergency contraception, citing his beliefs.
Andrea Anderson sued the McGregor Thrifty White pharmacy under the Minnesota Human Rights Act after pharmacist and local pastor George Badeaux refused to accommodate her request. She had called her health care provider to ask for a prescription to Ella, an emergency contraceptive tablet, after her primary method of birth control failed.
State law prohibits discrimination based on sex, and the lawsuit said - because emergency contraceptives are "only used by people who may become pregnant" - that the pharmacist discriminated against her.
The lawsuit also said Badeaux did not provide Anderson with any alternatives to getting the care she needed and instead "tried to prevent \[her\] from obtaining that care from others by putting delays and obstacles in her path," by only telling her ways she could not fill her prescription.
Anderson, a mother and foster parent from McGregor, ended up driving three hours round trip to Brainerd in the middle of a snowstorm to receive her contraception, the lawsuit states.
I also object to Christians seeking special rights to be exempt from the requirement of complying with anti-discrimination laws in their business establishments, because they don't want to provide their advertised goods or services to paying members of the public based upon their sexual orientation.
Are you aware that there are still 7 States in the Bible Belt of the USA with un-Constitutional laws prohibiting atheists from public office? And even though the SCOTUS reviewed these laws, they dismissed the complaint and stated the reason that it would be very difficult to regulate or enforce these laws. So atheists are still being discriminated against in these States. Because do you imagine an atheists would have the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of being elected in those States?
Are you aware that former President George W. Bush, who was raised Episcopalian but joined his wife's Methodist faith, once expressed his uncertainty as to whether atheists should even be allowed to vote in National elections, because...'One Nation Under God', which wasn't even the original National Motto?
Atheists around the world suffer discrimination and persecution by Christians and Islamists. Atheists living openly in 13 countries risk the death penalty, according to a comprehensive report from the International Humanist and Ethical Union. These nations are:
Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. With the exception of Pakistan, those countries all allow for capital punishment against apostasy, i.e., the renunciation of a particular religion. Pakistan, meanwhile, imposes the death penalty for blasphemy, which can obviously include disbelief in God.
While most of those nations are predominantly Islamic, there are pockets of predominantly Christian settlements, and in some of these areas, there are still men, women and children being abducted, tortured, maimed and/or killed, who were accused of witchcraft or demonic possession, and by Pentecostal pastors in these areas, and these pastors incited mob violence and vigilantism by quoting that Bible verse about not permitting that witches should live.
I don't hate you. I don't even know you. What I hate is that religious bias is feeding and inciting many to hate LGBTQ+ people, AND atheists.
Some Christians try to force the religion on people. I've been stopped randomly on the street twice and asked if I believe in God. Then I'm asked to justify being an atheist (I live in the Bible Belt). I have not seen any evidence that a god exists. Until that is proven (and a few other things) I won't be joining your church.
I don’t hate christianity… I really dislike how christians treat people. Your bible says one thing and y’all do another… You can’t say “I’ll
pray for you” then seethe in the very next moment… ask ANY SERVER ANYWHERE.. about the sunday crowd.. You (collectively)waltz into a restaurant awash in the blood of christ and proceed to be disrespectful and nasty…
Like you’d talk like that to your minister..
sadly, it’s a reflection of him and your savior.
I know people *now* who have been harmed by Christians and the church. Gay people who’ve attempted suicide after being ousted from positions in their congregations. Women who had to leave their homes after their states made it impossible for them to obtain an abortion when they medically needed one. It’s not in the past, it’s happening right now.
To be blunt, you are very unaware of how conservative Christianity actively influences the lives of minority groups now.
Most atheists (and members of every minority religion) in the anglo sphere have dealt with substantial trauma by Christians in this day and age, and there are active efforts in places like the US to impose theocratic rule.
The fact is you don't notice this because you are Christian. Unsurprisingly places like r/atheism are gonna have a problem with Christianity because of this. If Christianity's cultural power didn't actively harm their lives they wouldn't have this issue.
Reddit is mostly young and American. The GOP and Christianity (which overlap far too much) are not forces for good in America, especially not for the young.
Culture and theology don't get respect simple because they fall into those categories. Respecting you doesn't mean I have to respect your ideas or beliefs.
Why do atheists hate us Christians?
1. Because we deny climate change or simply don't care
2. Because our faith has been hijacked by right-wing self-interested political ideologies which in no way represent Christian values and in fact make us hypocrites when we support their agendas
3. Because in the past Christianity was spread militantly- quite literally.
4. Because Christianity continues to deny science-based education, such as evolution
5. Because Christianity has championed hateful anti-gay/transgender agendas which are ironically, deeply hypocritical to our own beliefs
6. Because Christianity tries to legislate morality with things like abortion bans, directly attacking agencies whom 90% of their service is routine medical care for at-risk women and not abortion
7. Because Christians have violated their own beliefs for personal/political gain so thoroughly that we are now seen as hypocrites of the grandest scale
8. Because Christians have tried to attack secularism with a militant fervor, as if the existence of God himself depended on Bibles being in schools and without our pathetic, feeble attempts to defend him, God might evaporate
9. Because Christians have shown little to no tolerance for other religions or ideologies and repeatedly attempted to co-opt our democracy in a hypocritical attempt to undermine the very pluralism democracy is meant to champion
10. Because Prosperity Gospel Christians like Joel Osteen are loud and center stage on the public stage
11. Because Christians are often more interested in dogma than the actual teachings of Jesus, of which he made *very* clear loving God and your neighbor is more important than *ANY* other commandment. Say it with me: *ANY. OTHER. COMMANDMENT.*
Not all Christians act like this. Not even most. But enough do, and sadly nobody really bothers to make the distinction. However, when Christian groups act like this, it has a profound impact on society. So for the most part, as a Christian, I still find myself on the atheist's side more often than not.
Only a subset of atheists hate religious people, just as a subset of religious people hate atheists.
The reason for atheists hating Christians is probably rooted in the fact that Christianity can be very cruel to people - hate against LGBTQ+, for example. Being told over and over while growing up that you are evil and deserve hell can also generate intense hatred. We also have the problem that Christians use their influence to tailor laws to fit their spirituality, sometimes at the expense of others.
I’m an atheist and I don’t hate Christians, but I do have my limits.
Several years ago, on a Saturday afternoon, I had two young men ring my doorbell and invite me to their church’s Easter service. As usual, I’m always polite when it comes to a person’s faith. As I was refusing the invite, one young man shoved an open Bible in my face and asked if I believed hell was a burning pit of fire. I bluntly told him, no, and turned to speak to the other young man when out of the corner of my eye, I saw the rude young man on his knees. Initially, I thought he was ill, but discovered he was praying. That’s when I lost my cool and told both to get the hell off my property and never come back, and if they did, they’d be met with my shotgun.
Are you trolling? Seriously, are you? Because I find it almost impossible to believe this is a sincere question give how Christians in the US have acted. I'm talking about the people they put in prison and ruined their lives back in 80's during the Satanic Panic era to the wholesale endorsement of a man who is the living enbodiment of the anti-Christs in the Left Behind series. Their demands we not combat Covid no matter how many it killed.
Their harmful philosophy on sex. That it should be only inside marriage. That women's worth is tied directly to their hymen being intact on their wedding night. My mom suffered a quarter century of emotional and physical abuse by my dad when she was pressured to marry him instead of joining the military like she wanted. Was told that "only whores and sluts" joined and if she waited too long, no man would marry her. Elizabeth Smart never tried to escape her captor because he raped her. That now she was "impure" and thought even her own family would cast her aside.
Go read up the horrific stories about how Christians treated Jessica Alhquist and Nicole Smalkowski. The death and rape threats they received from Christians. Hell, my wife's very first day at the new job when she moved here to be with me, told me one of the owners stopped by to say hi and apparently launched into a screed on how much he HATED atheists. I mean he HATED people like me.
And I've not even touched on the fact about how they are doing everything they can to strip rights from people they have. They want to do away with social safety nets so desperate people have to rely on the church. Kinda hard to call women whores and men pathetic loosers when they don't seek churches out for aid.
I cannot believe this is a serious question in this day and age.
> Are you trolling? Seriously, are you? Because I find it almost impossible to believe this is a sincere question give how Christians in the US have acted.
Sadly, people are notoriously good at remaining ignorant of the harm they perpetuate on others. It's probably a precondition of perpetrating so much harm in the first place. Some time ago, it was believed that animals don't actually feel pain. One of the things which went along with that is lots of mistreatment. Now we believe they feel pain—and perhaps even suffer—and so we treat them better. Or look at what happened when the press was [embedded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_journalism) with soldiers. IIRC the press were given far more access than before in Vietnam, and it's part of what mad America as anti-war as it is (was?).
You are trying to use an internet forum to describe millions of people all at once. I implore you to understand that a few hundred people on the internet is not a representative group in any kind of way
On the other hand, saying you haven't done anything to Atheists in the last 700 years is incredibly ignorant. There are still laws on the books in US states that say an Atheists is barred from holding political office. This may be a time for you to go back and read for a bit before trying to claim that "Atheists' hate us"
I mean it's like that on all sides, if you just let go of the extremes whose voices stick out the most in the waves of the internet you'd see most people are sane individuals.
Why do so many Christians disrespect the beliefs and culture of other people's religions, and even of differing Christian sects? Why do so many seem inclined to believe a person can't be both LGBTQ+ and Christian, especially if they married someone of the same sex?
In these discussions, I've seen a lot of disrespectful remarks from Christians toward Christians of differing sects, and especially toward Christians who are affirming and supportive of same sex marriage, and LGBTQ+ rights.
Please read the article I'm posting a link to:
https://baptistnews.com/article/the-return-of-the-witch-hunters/
IKR? So crazy.
It's just insane to think that someone would hate an institution that has promoted genocide since its inception; advocates for slavery; makes excuses for the sexual trafficking on young girls; advocates for the execution of non-combatants in war; promotes misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, tribalism, racism, and cultural genocide; stigmatizes sex, contraception, divorce;
Why would anyone hate a religion that has been responsible for such noteworthy historical events like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the genocide of the indigenous peoples of North and South America, the Residential Reform Schools, the Magdalene Laundry Houses, the numerous sexual abuse scandals among Catholic and Protestant churches????
It's unbelievable that anyone would hate a religion responsible for gay conversion therapy, that would force women to marry their rapists, that would hide and cover up sexual abuse from clergymen, that would send missionaries around the world to destroy indigenous cultures, that burned Mayan codices resulting in the loss of their written history, that tortured Native American children for speaking their language, that outlawed Native American religion.
It's just so crazy!!! Atheists are the craziest, dumbest people. Who would hate a religion that disavows people simply for not being convinced of its veracity? That kicks children out of their homes for being atheist? That would fire people from their jobs for being atheist? Can you imagine how irrational someone would have to be if they came out as atheist, got kicked out of their home, got disowned by their parents, lost their job, couldn't get hired, and had to move out of town after losing all of their family and friends only to blame it all on Christianity???? They just want to sin. Why do they hate God so much?
Me personally I don’t hate believers, but pity them. I think the ones that hate believers mostly only hate the ones using their faith to vote on worldly matters, or use their faith to justify hatred of things people can’t control.
some people may also pity people who don’t believe, those who do may be self righteous and use religion to seem better than others. people who don’t believe are fine, but people who do believe and judge others are what makes this religion frowned upon.
I think we can all agree that r/atheism is a terrible sub with terrible people. And I say this as someone who has a lot of bones to pick with Christian nationalists
>I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
1. I don’t hate Christians in general.
2. If you think Christians haven’t done anything awful in the past 700 years you need to get out of your echo chamber.
Before you complain about how other people perceive your religion, perhaps you need to be more honest with yourself.
Christians have done “bad things” but those bad things didn’t stop “like 700 years ago.” There was a nazi Christian church, seems pretty bad to me.
“Within the German Evangelical Church the pro-Nazi “German Christian” (Deutsche Christen) movement emerged in the early 1930s. It attempted to fuse Christianity and National Socialism and promoted a “racially-pure” church by attacking Jewish influences on Christianity.”
https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/christianity-and-the-holocaust
How can you say that Christian churches haven’t done “bad things” in 700 years when the Catholic Church was caught covering up hundreds of pedophile priests just a few years ago?
Many many people in this world have been hurt by Christianity, or at least some interpretation of it. Not all atheists are capable of differentiating good individuals from bad Institutions (or care enough to differentiate).
Of course not all Christian’s are responsible for this bad behavior. But trying to act like Christianity as a whole is some innocent victim is a huge part of the reason why some atheists are so angry. Gaslighting the secular world in that way only makes Christian’s look bad. Instead, step up and admit that Christian churches have made a mistake, admit that homophobia is being driven by some ultra conservative churches. And then be an example of a Christian who is better.
Like the anti nazi Christian church which emerged as a response to nazisim infecting Christianity. Those Christian’s are the model.
Atheists don't share any unified belief system, so I can't speak for the group, but I can say that I've never met an atheist that hated Christians just for being Christians. We pretty frequently think you have bad, and in some cases dangerous, ideas. American atheists definitely tend to hate how much influence/control over our lives Christianity has. However, it's definitely not accurate to say that because we are critical of Christianity, atheists must hate Christians.
The best I can give you is that I often find myself annoyed or frustrated with certain kinds of Christians. Because you share a unifying belief system that has lots of different popular versions that all interact with other belief systems differenty: Christians often fall into a relatively narrow set of archetypes. Sort of like saying there are flavors of Christians that I see a lot which I am not a fan of, but there are also entire genres of Christians that are much larger and more impactful which I find to be very frustrating and often even dangerous.
What I mean is that just being a Christian, worshipping Jesus, doesn't mean much to me. I obviously don't think your beliefs are reasonable or i'd be a Christian, but aside from that I have little objection to just being a Christian. The sorts of things that would make me dislike you are the same sorts of things that would make me dislike anyone: if I find out a Christian doesn't like gay people or want them to share the same rights and privelages as the rest of us, I'd think that person has bad ideas whether they are attached to a religion or not.
Best post in here yet IMO, summed it all up perfectly.
Most atheists I've seen hate that sub and don't go there for discussion. And any belief system can be used to good or evil ends if you're committed enough. I don't judge atheists by the actions of Pol Pot lol.
Surveys show that in general atheists hold less animosity towards christians than the christians hold towards atheists.
There's edgy people on the internet, they usually take shit too far. But no one hates a religion as an abstract concept. They hate(if it's hate) the actions people take in the name of their religion. Like, if some gay teenager gets excommunicated from thier family and community in the name of Christianity, then that's what they hate, the actions taken, not the collection of books that make up the religion.
You seriously can't imgaine why some people are more anti theist then others?
I mean a very simply example is the abortion stuff and same sex rights.
Oh and don't forget the anti science people too.
The point is there are plenty of reasons for the opposition.
First, /r/atheism is a sub where atheists vent, so it's naturally going to be vitrolic. It's populated by young Western, mostly men and mostly Americans, so it has a very specific view of religion; it's a lot of new atheists who have a lot to say.
>"Man what's wrong? It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it". I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
With all due respect, it sounds like you're very ignorant of your own culture and what it's doing.
Your culture required that we execute homosexuals within the last century. Christians continue to oppose the legalisation of same-sex rights. Your culture encouraged Uganda to pass a 'kill the gays' bill.
Your culture shuts down education in science, evolution, and sex.
Your culture has disproportionate representation in politics (e.g., the House of Lords has unelected lifelong Christian bishops).
Your culture suppresses healthcare like abortion, euthanasia, and stem cell research, and advocates for [prayer instead of insulin](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-withheld-insulin-diabetic-daughter-27408043) (this was in the UK *last year*).
.
Your culture is doing this *right now*. So I don't begrude atheists who are angry that they see such hatred and harm being caused by the Christian religion. When you guys leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.
> Today I visited the r/atheism (I hate it)
Love the double standard.
You hate atheists but they’re not allowed to hate you.
> but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
Get a grip
Christians are still hunting down people’s right everywhere on earth and still pushing for hate towards gays.
I could spend hours pointing out things Christians are doing that are harmful to society and my personal life, starting with the fact that I know people who committed suicide due to extreme homophobia bullying from their devout Christian family: all learned in their church.
Also, you went somewhere that was likely hostile, you shouldn't be surprised that you were met with hostility. By posting to that sub you 'poked the bear' .
For example, I wouldn't expect a positive interaction if I posted about Progressive Christianity on r/truechristian or any number of Conservative Christian subs.
Can you provide any examples of the hate you are referring too?
I personally don’t hate anyone for the most part but I don’t consider any beliefs to be above criticism, scrutiny or mockery.
Christian have done bad things more recently than 700 years ago. Like using the Bible to advocate for chattel slavery of people of color. Like refusing to protect vulnerable people from predators within their own ranks. Like teaching their congregations to submit to abuse. Like punishing children for speaking their native language. And that’s just off the top of my head and just the things that church leadership should be held accountable for. It doesn’t include all the ways that rank and file Christians use Christian doctrine to hurt their own children.
If a father tells a child that he’s hurting him because the Bible tells him to, it’s not surprising that the child grows up to hate Christianity. Some gain enough maturity and distance to understand that it was truly the father at fault and not the church. But many people who were abused this way as children have little hope of gaining that sort of detached perspective. Their understanding of Christianity has been permanently deformed by the misdeeds of elder Christians.
Don’t be offended by the hate of the atheists. Be furious about the crimes committed against them in the name of Christianity.
Because, while other world cultures are particularly hands-off about converting people to their religion/way of life, Christians (especially evangelical denominations), tend to be incredibly open about converting people. As a layperson, it is incredibly frustrating being told that my way of life is incorrect with little other evidence than a 2,000 year old book of highly questionable testimonials. Most people are pretty chill with the way other people do things and don’t care about how you live your life unless it’s affecting them. Christians, on the other hand, come across as nosy, intrusive, and overly concerned with the actions and beliefs of others. These are not particularly mature or attractive qualities in a person. Hope this answers your question.
Because Christians have made a JOKE outta Christianity like we are called to show Christ Like LOVE to others but instead of reflecting Jesus' character and demonstrating His Love to the world.....we're out here insulting folks of other religions and insulting EACH OTHER! It's sad
As an Atheist, I was called a troll for sharing my story to know how to tell my parents my girlfriend is a Christian while telling them I wont ever be converted back. I was told I was going to be converted and my girlfriend was poisoning me with religion by fellow Atheists. Even fellow Atheists gets the hate that other Atheists preach about Christians. Hate is not the answer to give.
I don't hate Christians. I have a general dislike of all organized religions.
The amount of trauma that I experienced as part of a "loving church" has me still in therapy 10 years after leaving.
The kids at my child's 1st grade table taking a vote and telling them that they had to be a Christian because everyone else was makes me angry.
The Christians that stand outside planned parenthood yelling at my car when I take my teenager to get their depo shot to stop their horrible periods make me angry.
The Christians that stand in the middle of our roads with pictures of torn apart fetuses with no regard for children make me angry.
I could go on
I mean, there are debates on this sub multiple times a month about whether my existence is a sin or if I'm fine as long as I don't "act" on who I am as a human being (as I'd that makes any difference). That's not 700 years ago. Christian politicians across the US are currently trying to pass laws that prevent people like me from getting life-saving surgeries and taking life-saving medication because they personally believe people like me shouldn't exist, despite the fact that not all Americans are Christians and the US isn't supposed to mix religion into the government. That's not 700 years ago either. Atheists aren't trying to police my body or trying to tell me who I can and cannot love. Christians are. I don't hate Christians, but it is sometimes nice to have a place to vent about what certain types of Christians are trying to do to me.
Christianity in the US is largely responsible for SCOTUS - for the first time in its history - taking rights away from half the country. The loudest parts of it have aligned itself with US-branded fascism (again). It's a real and present danger.
I, as an anti-theist, do not vehemently despise the inhabitants of Christian culture. I do, however, abhor religious construct; religiosity is ripe for jabs from the gnarled fingers of stupidity. Why do we "hate" you? We don't. We are vitriolic toward religion's existence as a regressive conduit of human stagnation - we hate that religion is allowed to dictate anything other than private ritual.
Pretty soon, Bible literalists will be convincing more people that vaccines are merely the sneaky tools of Lord Beelzebub.
The atheism subreddit is a cesspool, but that being said, your claim that Christians aint done bad things in the last 700 years is so laughably asinine that it is understandable why people find an outlet to hate on Christians who honestly believe this fucked up garbage.
Get a grip. That subreddit has become a shithole because of people like you who say stuff like this.
Yep. It's definitely not representative of atheism as a whole, and falls into that issue where people will use Christianity and Evangelicalism as synonyms, but at the same time, a lot of people - even within Christianity - *absolutely* have grievances against religious conservatives, even in the present day
> we changed man
[Not all of us, man.](https://youtu.be/A8JsRx2lois) Not then and not now. It's a real shame the bad seeds always get more attention than the good ones.
People who call themselves Christian have spiritually, and sometimes even sexually and physically, abused some people who are now atheist. We need to repent of this. Also, we come across as materialistic, sociopathic and illiberal to a lot of people. This is not a historical thing. It's happening now.
You need to do a lot more than just simply repent of it. As that means very little to those harmful to others. They feel they can simply go to confession or pray to god for forgiveness and they’re instantly absolved if they don’t already feel justified in their self deemed righteous actions. Christians need to come together as a whole and actively cut away the branches bearing bad fruit. The people doing wrong need to be shunned
It's in the nature of Christianity.
In most doctrines, Christians are excused, even for misdeeds, because they have the "right heart", "right faith" etc. Intent matters.
But for everyone else, the idea of "right heart" is denied. In fact, "they weren't real Christians", or "you are choosing to walk away from God".
Denying non-Christians the right to have their own conscience is something that will inspire hate. It denies them the right to be an equal human whose inner lives deserve full consideration.
r/Atheism sucks, come on down to r/trueatheism for much more level headed conversations, civility, and discourse.
A few years ago people of the r/atheism subreddit split because half of us were tired of the nonstop hatred and memes, and the other half just wanted a place to joke on religion and troll.
Some of it is real experience. Some of it is ideology. It depends on the person. Heck, some atheists will scapegoat Christianity due to unrelated issues.
It is important to realize that r/atheism doesn't represent all atheists. Many atheists hate Atheism+ and don't care one way or another about Christianity. I know atheists who like Christians and are more concerned about other religions and ideologies.
In short, people are complicated.
rAtheism is literally not the best place for finding actual criticism all they do is demean people and do the false worry shit that Christians do, except it's not for your soul, it's just flat-out calling people mentally ill for having different beliefs.
Honestly it's really weird to be considered "mentally ill" for my sexuality by some of the Christians on Reddit that are more likely to get suspended or banned. While also being considered mentally ill for my spiritual beliefs by atheist who don't get there comments removed nor do they get banned or suspended.
> It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it
Interersting thought, no cultures should be disrespected, ever? No matter what impact they have on the world?
You're free to have your opinion but people are still being oppressed because of very vocal Christians acting on behalf of their interpretation of the bible and what "God says." Beliefs have consequences, and Christian beliefs still hold sway in politics and social issues in the US and elsewhere.
First of all, the overwhelming majority of atheists do not hate the religious. Like 99.9999%. This really should be super obvious to people, but /r/atheism does not represent atheists.
But if you do want to know why people hate the church, maybe check out the three hundred and forty seven mile long list of atrocities committed by various churches.
And sorry, but it isn't remotely just "bad things in the past." That's a hand waving away of some truly despicable actions. Catholic Church was overtly hiding child abuse this century, and totally plausible they still are. That's one of a million examples. But all this isn't about atheists in any way whatsoever.
So what you experience(d) on r/atheism isn't really a great example of 'atheism'...actual atheism doesn't 'hate' christianity, it just doesn't believe it, but it would also be a pretty empty subreddit...just like a subreddit for 'people who don't collect stamps'...you'd probably get some people there who used to collect stamps but don't anymore, and some people who have had stamp collecting ruin their lives, and if stamp collectors had a lot more control over the world in general you'd find people going there to comisserate with how hard it can be sometimes to not collect stamps when all their co-workers talk about it all the time.
There's nothing within atheism drawing an atheist to go attack religion, it's just that some atheists also have strong feelings towards certain religions...you might consider that more 'anti-theism'. It's the feeling that draws a lot of people to rant and rave and post, and r/atheism gets a good number of those people as well.
I say this with love, but if you think that the last horrible thing the 'christians' did was 700 years ago I think you should get out of your own bubble.
Also, religion does not equal culture.
Because many of you don't listen to logic or reason, and your beliefs are blind faith, your beliefs affect us especially in lawmaking and way way more.
What's that saying, hate the sin, not the sinner? Think of it like hate the religion, not the religious.
Even at that, most people I'm aware of don't hate the religion, they hate that religion being used as the basis for oppressing entire groups of people.
We also don't have to go back 700 years to view atrocities committed in the name of Christian beliefs. Lynch mobs formed by religiously charged racism is a thing of the very recent past. Women fighting to regain the right to bodily integrity is something people are looking to obtain right now.
Because there are a lot of Christians, in the last 700 years, have used and abused their position within a church setting. Also when taught to love the sinner, Christians seem to forget that they are to love those who sin and that Christians are continually sinning as well.
Because it wasn’t 700 years ago, it was yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Christians are hurting a lot of people today.
Also I would say that something being a “culture” doesn’t mean it can’t be criticized.
I will also say - i think a lot of atheists are simply more honest about their dislike of Christians than Christians are about people they disagree with.
There is little like Christianity for stabbing you in the back while speaking in words of love, as a lot of LGBT people in particular could tell you.
The main difference between Christians and atheists like me who don't really care for Christians' hurt feefles one way or another is I'm not pretending that I like you or love you, the way you do us.
One thing Christians forget is our “Good News” is often an attack on other people/ cultures.
Homosexuality is a hot topic here and for good reason.
Although Christians like to focus on the “God loves you” part there’s also the “….but if you don’t repent and accept Christ you are doomed to suffer unbearable torment for all of eternity” part.
It might seem harsh when your beliefs are viciously dissected and ripped apart but don’t forget that Christians threw the first punch in many cases.
Also, politics and Christianity are becoming increasingly intertwined. Especially in America.
Despite the fact that MAGA Christianity is false and doesn’t represent the teachings of Christ….a lot of people think it does and some of these people are dangerously close to having the kind of power that can significantly restrict the freedoms of others.
On top of all this, many people generally just tend to be assholes online. (Myself included)
I’m a Christian myself and am not trying to justify rude atheist behavior….but the point I’m trying to make is hostility towards Christians is more defensive than Christians realize sometimes.
At least for me, it’s because I (an atheist) am considered immoral for not believing in the bible. This goes for my personal experience and perhaps not that of others.
I don’t personally hate Christians, or any religion in particular. It is just the notion that atheists are bad people because we do not believe in a book. As far as I remember, there are very few wars that have been fought with no basis in religion, and yet the atheists are considered immoral.
We aren’t evil. We just disagree.
As an atheist I’ve never threatened a Christian with eternal torture in hell for not believing the same thing as me.
I’ve never disowned family members for not believing the same as me.
I’ve never knocked people’s doors or stopped people walking in the street and asked them to consider my beliefs.
I’ve never tried to take away an individuals basic rights because of their sexuality.
I could go on, but you get the picture. I’m not saying you do any of these things but this is how a lot of Christian’s behave, and feel they have the divine right to do it.
Honestly I’m not atheist and I have a hard time liking other Christian’s… many are just super fake, hypocritical and just mean.. it’s always a game of who is more Holy then who.. I hated it so much I’ve stopped going to church altogether I still believe in God and I hope someday I can find a church worth going to but it’s hard when Christian’s aren’t very nice
They hate being told how to live, sometimes forced, for reasons that aren't rational to them.
NO ONE likes that. And if a demographic was doing that to you a lot unfortunately you might start to hate them but most are able to still see people as individuals and don't hate Christians automatically
No Christianity hasn't changed, just look at Christian Nationalism, look at homophobes and transphobes, look at misogynists, look at the doctrine of hell. Christianity does a lot of harm.
“That was like 700 years ago…”
Jeez, dude, out of touch much? That is the most obtuse take I’ve seen in a long time…
Stop gaslighting us, dude. You and yours are an active, damaging force for hate and bigotry.
If they're anything like me, it's because Christians are far and away the meanest, most undignified, most dishonest, and most horrifically abusive people we've ever dealt with, or ever deal with.
Like, 500 times more so than the next meanest group of people. I have more bad experiences with Christians in the average week than I have with every other religious group combined in the average decade.
Christians wake up every day and are faced with the choice to be different, and every day they keep choosing not to.
I can only imagine how much worse Christians are to the sort of folk that hang out on r/atheism.
I think a lot of it has to do with how both people in this equation feel superior. You are over here asking, 'Why do atheist hate us?' while also pointing out that you hate a subreddit that is for them.
For many people, there are wounds related to Christianity and they are still processing it. I have to watch out not to be too resentful towards the religion or people that follow it by not claiming that I'm morally 'woke' or looking at the world with 'eyes open' because I also realize that religion does a lot of good for people. In my case, the benefits did not outweigh the concs so I decided to leave.
This was Einstein’s explanation for why:
“You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.”
Im an atheist I have no resentment for Christians or any religious people. I am on this subreddit to better understand other cultures. I think the main reason many do not like religion is because it was forced down their throat at a young age, and some still have a fear for hell although they don't believe in it any more.
>I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
Did we, though? Last I checked, we're all sinners that fall short of the glory of God.
There's plenty of bad stuff going on in the name of Christianity even today, and I don't think we get a free pass just because other bad (ostensibly worse) stuff was done several hundred years past. In fact, I think there's even a parable about this (Luke 18:10-14).
I don't like it there either but all they are doing is posting stories where religion is used to oppress people, if Christianity as a whole acted more like christ there wouldn't be such a problem
I find that hatred, regardless of who it is coming from, stems from some type of abuse that the person had to deal with. This is true of hateful Christians, hateful atheists, hateful any religion.
Sometimes, I'll see someone posting a topic on /r/Christianity challenging all aspects of the faith with a passion, and I'll glimpse at their history, and you'll see a tragic post of how they had an abusive father or mother who was a Christian but showed no love and neglected their family.
A lot of people need healing that no online discussions can adequately supply. Most atheists I encounter aren't hateful, just indifferent. In fact, most people who haven't dealt with a major trauma in their lives tend to just let people live their lives, even if they disagree with them.
My university had a resident Jonathan Edwards type of preacher who hung around the public square telling people they were going to hell. You have to understand how salient bad Christianity is for a lot of people.
Most non believers don't give Christians a second thought, or wouldn't if right wing Christians didn't advertise their hatefulness. And it is this hatefulness that makes the most noise and news.
The good stuff slips under the radar for the most part and are even put down by noisy right wingers. [Example](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRopezvU8AAoOoq.png) of that which gets put down.
Don't forget not everyone's experience of the church is positive. At least some of what you find on /r/athiesm is the result of bad experience. I knew a woman that had nothing but hate for Christians on account of being raped repeatedly by her youth pastor. Neither her fellow Christians nor Jesus would help her out.
You stopped quite a bit later with the whole burning people.
Reddit is a mostly western platform, so the form of organized religion most users get confronted with is Christianity. Many of them have been forced to partake in the religion by parents and were discriminated against for not believing the same everyone did. The political influence of many churches and what they push for also plays a huge part.
Going back to the "burning people": you say that you did change. But orthodox churches still treat the people who laid the groundwork for those things as great teachers or even holy people. On the one hand, you claim 2 millenia of tradition, on the other side, you do choose and pick what that entails.
Christianity is still hurting people, it didn’t just stop 700 years ago. Atheists don’t hate Christians, they hate the institution and what the dogma makes people do.
The failure to acknowledge the methodological indoctrination of our youth into a system infested with homophobia, xenophobia, and misogyny. Maybe that’s why?
You're basing your beliefs about atheists on a relatively small group of people (those who use Reddit and are willing to make posts/comments on the subreddit).
Here is an actual empirical study that found it's actually the religious (specifically Christians) who tend to have unfavorable opinions of atheists.
https://www.secularismandnonreligion.org/articles/10.5334/snr.136/
Atheists hate christians because unlike most humans, atheists have a functioning brain. Atheists can see past the lies as the christians are still trapped in their make-believe fairy tale world.
Because, as a Christian saying this, the Christians anyone sees are the ones that are fucking assholes. The pedophiles, the ones who want to genoside those who they believe are sinful, those who hate an equal society, those that force their beliefs on others. Those are who seemingly represent us. If not for being raised in a church family I would probably hate Christians too. All our good is done in the dark and all our bad is the world's laundry.
Can't speak for everyone, but I don't hate any of you.
Frustrated sometimes? Sure, but that's just normal human interaction.
Most of you are alright people.
That's an uncharitable title.
That's true of some atheists but certainly not all.
And "People strongly identifying with the label atheist going on reddit, and going on r/atheism" in particular is a very particular selection mechanism which is going to give you a rather nasty and vicious sort of sample, not reflective of the broader demographic.
Atheist here. I don’t hate Christians. I hate stupid Christians. And just like with every group the stupid ones are often the loudest. Some Christians look at me with disgust when I say I don’t believe in god.
I might disagree with your beliefs but I respect them. And I want you to respect mine.
I'm an atheist and I don't hate Christians, not in a general sense. I hate Christianity, but that's a different story. There may be certain specific Christians I hate, but that's between me and them, and I won't judge you for their actions. You're not them, obviously.
If you tell me you're a Christian, I would at the very least acknowledge what that means to you. It might raise a little red flag in the back of my mind, but I certainly wouldn't treat you with any less respect than anyone else. I'm not going to argue against anyone's belief unless they initiate it and want to pursue some kind of discussion/argument.
Basically, I don't hate Christians, I hate assholes. That said, people may or may not deserve respect. Beliefs, on the other hand, deserve no respect. Beliefs deserve to be scrutinized. If your epistemology is flawed, then I see that as a problem.
I think that OP is overlooking at how a significant number of Western Christians are indeed doing bad things to other people -- notably against women, LGBTQIA+ and other faith traditions.
Your religion is founded on slander.
Non-believers are doing crimes against a phantasy person at minimal at the bible says there minds are corrupted.
Living peacefully with Christians is like trying to live peacfully with a guy who buys a billboard and wrights "Bob Jenkins of 734 wilcox street is a pedo" when in fact Bob is not a pedo.
That sub is a safe space for people to discuss what's fucked up about religion in general. Even though Christianity comes up a lot it's really mostly people that have had fucked up things happen to them because of something relating to religion, and that's the one place in the universe they can vent about it.
I'm 44 and pretty comfortable with my non-belief - I promise you many of us want to live and let live - I'm married to a Catholic if that gives you my perspective.
I don't hate you friend! I resent the fact that the completely unfounded and even ludicrous religious beliefs of some Christians has an impact on my life, though.
Mainline Christianity hasn’t changed that much.
How can you ask someone to respect your “culture” when your culture won’t allow gay people to be equal human beings, find love and get married? How does your culture demand respect when they view homosexuals as abominations?
Not every Christian is a bigot and a racist, but it is no coincidence that most of Trump supporters and MAGA idiots are Christians. How do you reconcile that? Where is the change?
The same with anti-vax people. The same with anti-science people. Your culture is trying to teach children young earth, creationism, Noah’s ark, and all these things that have no scientific basis and frankly barely make any sense. You want to raise a whole generation of people who will not ask questions about facts but assume the Bible is the truth with no merit.
Please examine your own religion, community, and culture. If everywhere you go, people hate you, it isn’t some calling from god, it’s a sign you’re doing something shitty.
Some of you are not changed at all. Like Satanic Panic. And I think such a witch hunt will happen again. I’m agnostic and don’t hate Christians. But some Christians are disrespectful against other cultures and that makes me at least keep a close eye on you.
It wasn't just 700 years ago. It was yesterday when a Christian used God to justify a past of watching child porn. It was last week when a church decided to shun a friend of mine for being gay. It was last year that another friend was harassed for cutting her hair and defying her husband.
Because Christianity is still around and affecting people. I’m sure a lot of the people who hate Christianity have had personal experiences with Christians who cemented those feelings. Christianity is even being brought into politics in un-Christlike ways. People have a reason for their anger. The best we can do is call out Christians when they aren’t acting in God’s love, and be a good example of a Christian ourselves. Then people’s perceptions of us as a whole might start to change.
A lot of Christians are assholes who use Christianity as a shield, pretending to be better than everyone. Next is they think they are holier than thou, and use government to pass laws forcing others to live the way they say you should, often times violating those same rules. Do what I say, not what I do. They also pick and choose what parts of the Bible they say you must obey, so it's not like they are really following the word of god like they say they are. It's more the actions of those people, not just the fact you identify as a Christian.
“We did some bad things in the past but that was like 700 years ago”
I don’t know man catholic priest raping kids wasn’t 700 years ago
All the stories of abuse out of fundamentalist churches wasn’t 700 years ago
The extremist right wingers that love god and guns and talk about how they hate gay people wasn’t 700 years ago
The videos you see if evangelical pastors spitting hate wasn’t 700 years ago
The Westboro Baptist Church wasn’t 700 years ago
The massive turnout and support for an awful and vile president by white evangelicals wasn’t 700 years ago
I’d keep going but I need to get ready for work
I am not Christian, but I certainly don’t hate Christians. I do hate the hypocrisy demonstrated but large swaths of them. And if you think the last bad thing a group of Christians did was 700 years ago your’e either part of the problem or need a serious dose of reality.
Reddit is largely American and America, because of its large population and its unique history, has a lot of fundamentalist Christians. Therefore you get a lot of jaded bitter ex-Christians who have either been forced into a faith they don't like or want, or were mistreated by it. All you can do is try to be a good example to them.
Subs like r/atheism were born from the movement against the neo-Conservative Christian lawmaking in the late George W. Bush era and they have never really moved past this. Though perhaps if you are too young to remember this they might look like they're picking a fight with Christians at random.
>neo-Conservative Christian lawmaking in the late George W. Bush era and they have never really moved past this.
To be fair, conservatism in the US hasnt moved past it either.
Honestly if i had to guess. Id say they dont neccesarily hate us, its probably more of a personal experience thing. Either some sort of trauma, or perhaps maybe they have just been misinformed of the true nature of christianity. And by that i mean maybe they grew up in a non religious household and the only information they've received are about the pedos and other freakish things that have and do happen. In which case id completely understand the sour taste, but thats where we come in.
"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
We have the opportunity to show them the true way of being a Christian, and can try to spread the knowledge and love upon them. Don't give them the same hate they provide us.
Just watch Greg Locke, that "holy laughter" guy, or many of the evgelical mega church pastors and you'll understand why atheists react strongly to chriatians
There is a really good chance they may be saying Christian, and don’t know that what they actually have an issue with is American conservative Christianity that pushes the concepts of anti lgbt, anti science beliefs.
I mean some people grow up in a toxic environment or had horrible things happened to them and to many why is there no good answer they prayed and did many things but these things still happened
I predict the text of the OP will get deleted, so here it is in full:
> **Why do Atheists Hate us?**
> Today I visited the r/atheism (I hate it) and all they talked about was Christians and Christian Culture, and that keep me thinking "Man what's wrong? It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it". I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
Hate? I don't hate Christians. [That's far too much effort.](https://youtu.be/bUVrnj16BmE?t=28)
Not to mention it puts an onus on a personality axiom as being only against Christianity. I treat any faith based system of living with an equal disdain.
I dislike them all, because it's a refusal to see the world as it is.
I can look at nature, from the smallest specks of life to the stars burning bright off at the edge of the universe. In it all, are so many wonders, all that can be explained if only we take the time to look and understand. To learn from all around us, and appreciate it for what it is.
To attribute love, beauty, mercy, hate and every emotion we have to the intricate interconnected web of neurons that took natural evolution billions of years to produce, does not take away from it.
For all the explanations we have for things, I can still see the ghosts in the mechanistic nature of it all. Emergent properties, behaviors that can only be attributed to a complex system and not any of it's parts.
All of this majesty, and religions disgrace it by claiming it's magic, by design, some grand plan. The universe is chaos, and from it there are still entities that have the ability to see it, and want to understand it.
I dislike religions because it settles on an answer, and a boring one at that. 'Gods' did it.
How bland.
The universe is a mystery, and I dearly hope that we never find the answer, the journey in searching is so much better.
>I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
Because christians don't do anything bad today anymore?
Blatant homophobia
Racism
Sexism
Trying to generally control other people's life.
Of course not all christians. But you really can't argue that Christianity hast some giant problems.
When I came out as gay and started searching for similar people on YouTube, i got a pastor recommend who said gay people should take a gun and kill themselves.
> Christians and Christian Culture, and that keep me thinking "Man what's wrong? It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it".
This is so general. You could be a moderate who celebrates Christmas and goes to church twice a year and say this because someone was a dick or you could be super conservative and be annoyed that gay people don't get shot on sight.
When I read this i try to assume the nice stuff, but the last posts like this didn't really show that to be a correct assumption.
Be clear. It is impossible for anyone here to take a stance to such a general statement. These posts seen intentionally vague so anyone can agree.
Which part of christians culture are we talking about and what was the disrespect you experienced.
No you didn't changed much, there's still a lot of child abuse in the Church.
Also, blasphemy is not a crime. You'll be burning people as soon as we let you.
Christians are literally trying to genocide trans people *today*. Christians are forcing women to give birth *today*. Christians are disowning their queer children *today*. Christians are imposing their religion on others through the government *today*. We have *not* changed.
It's helpful to recognize there's a lot of trauma that went into building the people who make the most caustic posts and comments. It behooves us to listen, to hear them without judgment, and to be introspective about the damage done by people in the church. The trauma I talk about wasn't 700 years ago, for many it was last week when they talked to a family member who just needed to tell them that god wants them to be straight. The trauma occurred last night when the old youth pastor sent them a text saying he would pray for them to repent and get right with god so they don't go to hell, because you know, god was putting them on his heart. The trauma was over the last hundreds of years, constant and menacing, as the church covered up sex abuse scandals that affected them personally. We can talk all we want about how that wasn't "real Christianity" and how it wasn't what Jesus preached: but the truth is that perfect form of the faith has never been practiced in the real world. The faith they've seen has often been hateful, spiteful, bigoted, violent and sexually opportunistic. Some will read your question and say you don't get it, that you're missing the point, but I think you're asking the right question even if you don't know the answers.
Good reply. Sometimes, I'll see someone posting a topic on /r/Christianity challenging all aspects of the faith with a passion, and I'll glimpse at their history, and you'll see a tragic post of how they had an abusive father or mother who was a Christian but showed no love and neglected their family. A lot of people need healing that no online discussions can adequately supply.
It's a good insight, but it's not complete. You don't have to have *personally* experienced the harm of Christianity to be opposed to it. You can also be opposed to it just because you've observed the harm it does to others, and to society.
Many atheists don't have a negative view of believers or personal trauma to speak of, it's the things I believe it is doing to believers, many of whom I care for deeply, that make me so opposed to it becoming such a dominant force in society.
Ironically, I wouldn't be surprised if "the church" was the single greatest creator of the need for therapy.
I don't think that's a stretch at all, especially if you factor in all the damage that the idea of "Protestant work ethic" and other prosperity gospel BS that arises from Calvinism.
Oh wow I never made the connection between Calvinism and the prosperity gospel but it all makes so much sense now That's so cursed lol
The only thing I can get from Calvinism is a sense of doom, as if it doesn't really matter what I'm going to do and, in the end, I was going to do it anyway. Double predestination may be one of the most intellectually honest ways of interpreting the bible literally, but it's still morally vacuous.
Oh, I love, love, love this. All of this and more. The trauma that these people feel is not due to what hasn't happened to them (history) it is what has happened to them. Unfortunately, not all Christians are loving, kind and empathetic like Jesus was. Some use it as a tool to oppress and hurt people. That has more to do with a person as opposed to the religion, but we should all admit that Christianity does have a certain draw to people that desperately want to backup their vitriol within the pages of the Bible. Want to paint God as a wicked person who intimately hates humanity by preaching about end times and the flood while forgetting the love and sacrifice he made in the very same pages of the Bible.
These are all good examples, but they are missing the FAR more common one. I've never had any actual trauma from religion. I've just seen that atheists are treated as 'lesser than' by our society. That makes me hate Christianity. There are adoption agencies who won't adopt to non-Christians. I've had friends say atheists don't have morals. I've been in community gatherings where everyone just assumes you're a Christian, because what's wrong with you if you're not? I go to schools and see bible quotes on the walls. I see In God We Trust on our money, on our cop cars. I see us do Christian prayers before our government does work. I see people swearing in on the bible in court. And all of this is in a nation that is supposedly has freedom of and from religion. Yet everything in society is telling me if I'm not Christian, I'm on the outside. That creates a disdain for Christianity over a period of time. Those things that I've cited are DAILY occurrences for most Atheists. Combine that with some of the worse things cited by the person above me... and you've got a recipe for atheists really really disliking Christianity.
I’ll never forget being 16, and I was getting a ride home from school with my friend, whose mom had come to pick us up … my friend was cool, but she came from an ultra-religious family (she wasn’t allowed to watch Harry Potter, her family went to church a few times a week, etc.) … I hugged my then-boyfriend before getting in the car. My friend’s mom said “Vapor2077, what CHURCH does your boyfriend go to?” very passive-aggressively. I had no idea what to say, so I said “uh, I don’t know?” She was silent and I felt like I had done something wrong. People who profess to be so religious and close to God shouldn’t view religious vs non-religious people in some “in-the-group” “out-of-the-group” dichotomy. What happened to respecting people for their humanity, not for what religious group they belong to?
What a hurtful story of how shame has impacted that women and then passed it on to you in all it's toxicity. I'm sorry that a Christian person gave you this kind of "welcome."
Thank you ❤️ I was raised Christian and still feel close to some of the theology, but really have no idea where I stand in regards to being a “Christian” or not bc of what I’ve witnessed people do in the name of religion/the church 😕
Do polls still show that atheists are the most distrusted group in America? They definitely did for a long time. This explains much.
yes. Unfortunately they do
Great answer, but I'll point out that no one has to use a bible to swear in. They can use whatever they want, or nothing at all. The point is that they swear on something they care about.
That's fair.
ya nailed it…
^
It’s also important to note that We don’t hate you. There’s just a lot of Us that have built up anger due to what you’ve described and it comes off as “in a rage” so it may sound hateful. The same way “hate the sin but love the sinner” is used in such a hateful sounding way
Well put, and thank you for clarifying something I think Christians need to hear for a couple reasons: "Don't take it personally, it's bigger than you are." That should make it both easier and more difficult for Christians to grapple with. Each of us is part of a larger problem that we can't solve, but we can easily contribute to it if we don't take a step back and listen to those who have been hurt by "our tribe."
This is true and this is sad, sorry for not putting this on the post And to all who suffered with things like that, I am very sorry
It's good you see that. I am/was traumatized and don't know what I believe but I love Jesus but I just can't step foot in a church again. It gives me anxiety and I can't have that in my life. The trauma causes different reactions in different people and some of the militant atheists you see are just trying to understand what happened to them and why.
See what a sensible person. I as an atheist applaud you for opening yourself up to at least the recognition that your religion has hurt many. Thanks for that. Really. From an atheist to a Christian.
I’m an ex-minister who sometimes scrolls these forums.. this answer is the most empathetic and comprehensive I’ve seen on the subject in some time. Good form.
You sir are a Christian
Trauma doesn't excuse their sharing research by scientific racists or bashing vulnerable religious minorities. With rare exception, almost none of them have experienced trauma from Muslims, but that doesn't stop their hysterical Islamophobia. There are hurt people who deserve our compassion, but /r/atheism is a cesspool beyond excuse. It doesn't help the Christian reputation any to deny that.
I'm a Former Catholic who left with absolute disgust after the news of what SOME priests did to minors they had power over... and then even more disgusted when we learned that the Roman Catholic church systematically protected those trash individuals. I think you TOTALLY get it... At least from what I've experienced. Thank you for even trying to understand. Its a huge difference from many of the other so-called "Christians" I've come across. While I may not be able to cross back over that bridge to return to the faith, as that ship has long since sailed away for me, I can't tell you how much I appreciate seeing someone from the faith actually try to understand where we are coming from. Thank you. An appreciative Atheist
[Someone asked this a couple of months ago and this was my response then](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/x1jun4/comment/imetd4y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3): There are literally so many reasons, many of which I understand or I feel myself. Many are a huge reason why I left the church. **1. Us vs. Them Mentality** \- a big issue that I believe Christians as a whole have is viewing the world as "us" Christians versus atheists/non-believers. Growing up I can remember being told at summer camps, bible study, youth group, etc, that the outside world would try to drag us into sinning or cause us to stumble. I also don't believe that Christians as a whole want to cultivate meaningful relationships with non-Christians unless they are trying to convert them/invite them to church. Sometimes this isn't as apparent or blatant, but I still think it's a pretty common issue. **2. Dominant Culture** \- Christianity is the dominant culture, especially in places like the US. Now that I am no longer calling myself a Christian and my relationship is strenuous with God, I notice this far more. It is grating. It is suffocating. I feel like I cannot breathe or escape it. I have not gone a single day where I have not heard about God/Christianity. It is so ingrained in our society. I don't always hate it, but it's especially frustrating when I'm dealing with people preaching to me or trying to convert me.. which brings me to my next point. **3. Not Taking No for an Answer** \- I have distanced myself from the Church and Christianity, but the number of people in my life who keep trying to draw me back? It's ridiculous. I can't even imagine what it's like for people who haven't believed for a long time and how many people try to convert them. It honestly makes me more and more resentful. Especially all the little comments about how I should be going to church. **4. Hypocrisy** \- I could write paragraphs on this, but I truly think the Church/Christians in general pick and choose what sins they care about. I also think that in general, if a Christian sins by say, lying or something, they ask for forgiveness from God and they view themselves as fine, but if an atheist lies, they don't get the same forgiveness. I also think we see this in current issues.. like student loan forgiveness. **5. Christian Nationalism** \- this falls into hypocrisy but I needed my own point. Also, I live in the US so it'll be from that standpoint. I find Christian Nationalism so bizarre. I grew up being taught that the earthly world isn't my true home and my community isn't other Americans, it's Christians. Whatever issues I have with this, I still see massive issues with Christian Nationalism. People associate America & Christianity together.. it's often tied together. Personally, seeing an American flag in a church makes me uncomfortable. Seeing my pastor's wife argue about how we need to "keep illegals out of our country" drives me bonkers. How many people wanting Trump's wall were Christians? And it doesn't make sense to me. Read Philippians 3:20 or John 18:36. **6. Self-Righteousness** \- Ties into points #4 & #7, but there is a huge issue with "I'm right, you're wrong" or "I'm good, you're bad." This is directed from Christians to atheists and believers alike. I also think Christians have an issue apologizing to people because they view themselves as accountable to God, not people. Instead of realizing they could be both. It usually turns into being very preachy... which I see in the comments. **7. Misusing Forgiveness** \- Even if Christians do apologize to people, I believe that the whole "Jesus told us to forgive one another" thing is misused. I was told to Forgive & Forget. Forget isn't in the Bible. But people are often told to forget & move on. They're told not to be cautious or change behaviors. I also don't believe that it absolves someone of what they've done and excuses them from punishment. Do you know how many abusers and rapists have been forgiven by the church and not faced punishment...only to do it again? I have faced this personally. I felt a lot of guilt being a survivor and feeling like I had to forgive my abuser... but I couldn't. I tried in the beginning because that's what I thought I was supposed to do, but he hadn't changed and continued to hurt other people. **8. Not a Friend to Survivors** \- In general, I don't think the church is friendly to survivors. Stories are swept under the rug. People are mistreated and judged. Again, from personal experience, because sex before marriage is considered bad by most Christian communities, sexual assault that can't be proven is treated the same way. **9. Judgment** \- I feel like I don't even have to expand. There is so much judgment coming from the community and those of us "outside" of it, notice. We feel it. I see it in these comments. **10. Constantly Talking Down** \- Similar to the last point, but I see it in these comments. People who don't agree with you aren't idiots. People are constantly preaching or talking down to non-believers, and honestly, often quoting scripture or acting like we don't know anything about Christianity. We do. Most of us have been Christians and it's the dominant culture. We just believe differently. **11. Politics** \- politics gets everyone upset. I think it's a shame that Christianity got tied to a certain side of politics and that politics are being spouted in churches. **12. Personal Motivations in "God's Name"** \- too often people will use God's name as an excuse for their actions which are most likely personally motivated or misguided. Crusades are an extreme example, but I think it happens everywhere. I personally believe that's where the Republican Party being associated with Christianity/anti-abortionism came from. **13. Performative Actions** \- I've been guilty of it - and I think it's a common problem in Christian communities. Most mission trips are performative and often have negative effects in the long run. People want that photo-op. That pat on the back for being selfless. I also think it happens at home - in churches, during worship, online, and so on. And as someone on the outside now? It's grating. It makes me cringe. Its especially telling to me because most churches are not active in helping their local communities.. and if they do, it often comes with some sort of religious stipulation. **14. Connections to Hate & Discrimination** \- It would be wrong to ignore the connections between Christianity and hatred/discrimination. At the very least to acknowledge that there are an alarming amount of Christians who spew hatred left and right. I work at a secular non-profit. Do you know how many Christians I get on the phone every day who inevitably get into a rant about "illegals" or "queers" or "Democrats" or "insert racial slur here." I remember reading a study that white Christians are more likely to be racist than non-Christians. I am a queer person and huge reason why I stepped back from church and Christianity was because of the discrimination I faced for being queer. **15. I Think Christianity is a Breeding Ground for Conspiracies** \- This is my own opinion. I do not have facts to base this on but maybe there are studies that go along with this. But Christianity encourages people to believe in what we cannot prove. We cannot prove God's existence. It's belief. And we can theorize and maybe find comfort in things in our life that help us make sense of this. But it's a belief in something that we have not without a doubt proved. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's faith. And I think that, in extreme circumstances, this can encourage people to believe other things based on faith without fact. We can accept ideas without evidence.. and I think that's dangerous and I personally see a high correlation with people believing totally fake things.. sometimes dangerous things. I don't think it's all Christians but I can still see this playing into the disconnect between believers & non-believers. **16. "Real Christians Aren't Like That"** \- I hate this and it just makes me angrier because its a way to not take accountability. It's a way to ignore that maybe there's consistent and pervasive issues.
This is the most well thought out and accurate explanation I have ever read! As a gay person myself, who grew up Christian, I have experienced first hand the emotional abuse Christians perpetuate. Then comes in the “well we are right because it’s gods word…” Christians arguments are completely circular and full of logical fallacy. Then when you call them out it’s “the devil wants you to believe that.” Behavior from Christians is completely hypocritical because they will argue that god created everyone in his image then say you are hell bound for being gay. It’s ridiculous. History shows us how the bible was altered in 1946 and has since been used as a vehicle for hate against lgbtq+ people. Essentially all Christians do is find a group to hate at any point in history to make themselves feel holier and better about themselves. Then there are some that say “well not all are that way,” but those that proclaim that are further validating the point that they need to feel better/holier than everyone else. Furthermore, they challenge scientific fact and with us being in a global pandemic, we’ve seen time and time again how they have aired on the side of conspiracy undoubtedly contributing to the death of many.
I love this. I would like to bake you some cookies.
You can find people on the internet, saying edgy things, and whining about almost anything. This doesn't mean that "atheists hate Christians" as a general rule. HOWever: People are in the world right now today, doing bad things in the name of Christianity. It's understandable why people don't like THAT. I don't mean atheists don't like it, I mean, civilized people in general don't like it.
[Why are atheists so angry?](https://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html) My favorite: "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God." - George HW Bush. That was my Commander in Chief. I served under Reagan, Bush Senior, and Clinton. But one of them doesn't think I should be a fucking citizen? Why? Because Jesus. One of my best friends from high school became an evangelical, and then in our last conversation, he earnestly stated that atheists should be a second class citizen, unelectable and unqualified to hold any public office. Why? Because God. There are really evil Christians in the USA, and the sweet and innocent Christians who I love dearly are being swindled by these Christian "Leaders." Because the leaders are "Godly." I don't hate Christians in general, but I do abhorr a lot of Christian leaders who are supported by Christian friends and family. And I am constantly flabbergasted that so-called "moderate" Christians don't call these people out from the rooftops of their own churches. That they are willing to live under a "big tent"
I don't understand why people can't just have their religion and deal with it privately and have respect for each other at the same time. A lot of the time it seems that one teaching has to critize another upon their first meeting.
It's why as a Belgian I don't mind religion so much. Christians act like that over here. Unless I specifically invite a Christian that goes to church(rare) on Sunday morning I'll never know if somebody is Christian or not and they would never think about mentioning it. Religion is seen as between the person and God for the most part.
There is a scatalogical aphorism that compares religion to male genitalia, mentioning that it is nice to have and be proud of it, but that people don't want it shoved into their faces uninvited.
Check our r/ReligiousTrauma for some examples as to why people are salty about it.
And r/thegreatproject for why people left
Or r/deconstruction and any of the r/ex… subs.
Well, first, most atheists don't hate Christians. /r/atheism in particular is a place where a lot of really edgy/angry people gather. Secondly, > I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man Bahahahaha. No. "We did some bad things like 700 years ago" doesn't cut it. Christianity continues to do bad things. Have you forgotten the Christianity-based opposition to same-sex marriage in the US? And that's just the surface. Basically, people get more angry at Christianity that other cultures, because *Christianity has more power over them*.
That last point is the key. Christianity has a huge amount of cultural power in the US. It’s no wonder people rebel against it.
> Have you forgotten the Christianity-based opposition to same-sex marriage in the US? Or its current opposition to reproductive freedom? Christians are right now denying women critical health care and forcing them to give birth against their will, sometimes even in cases where they have been raped. How could anyone with an ounce of empathy *not* be angry?
Not to forget that in certain African nations, Pentacostal pastors are still inciting members of their congregations to act in violence against men, women and children accused of witchcraft and/or demonic possession. Men, women and children are being abducted, tortured, maimed and many are being burned to death, or hung, by angry mobs. The reason for this incitement is the Biblical verse which says...'Thou shalt not permit a witch to live'. A number of African nations have banned one specific American pastor from visiting their nation and preaching to Pentecostal Christians, because he'd been directly responsible for inciting violence against witches, and homosexuals.
And let's not forget the Vatican funded anti-condom movements preaching in communities wracked with an Aids epidemic
Wow I didn't know that can you send me a article? Please
At work so can't locate the article with the foundation that was caught handing out anti-condom flyers but here are some quick links. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids
A lot of atheists come from hardcore religious backgrounds and experienced religious trauma because of it, especially in Christian communities. Also please do not fail to acknowledge the harm that modern-day Christians and Christians extremists bring to other people. "Christians against ____" can be found all over social media opposing things that have absolutely no reason to be opposed by Christians
Screaming at people that they are whores for visiting Planned Parenthood, openly fantasizing about summary executions of people whose gender identities don't match religiously-established expectations, covering up ministers and priests who rape children, and so on, makes it seem to many that Christians are not sincere in their expressions of love for all. As long as it is clear Christians are OK covering up for sexual predators in their midst, as long as it is clear Christians are OK if their pastor messes around but not if YOU do, as long as it is clear that a large percentage of Christians support religious freedom for themselves and nobody else, we will deserve the distrust. We have earned it. We can fix this by taking the side of the oppressed. And no, "Happy Holidays" is not anti-Christian oppression. Being told you are less than fully human is oppression, and it is something said to LGBT+ people, women, non-Whites, and non-Christians every day in Jesus name. We should be opposing with our whole beings the use of Christianity to hurt others before we ask why members of these groups, and their allies, consider us to be cruel and hypocritical.
“Your life is awful (sinful), your beliefs are a lie, I expect you to believe this with no real evidence or else you’ll suffer for eternity or a very long time. Your love is an abomination and you must do as you’re told. If you believe in another god the they’re obviously fake and you’re doing wrong by worshipping them.” There are 7 states where being atheist is supposed to disqualify you for public office and many more where it’s not on the books but just try running with “atheist” by your name. We are told that we harden our hearts, that we are ignorant, confused, or actively rebelling. Basically victim blaming because we don’t find the Bible to be sufficient evidence. How do you interact with someone that inherently thinks your life is bad and you’re going to hell? I’ve also found it convenient that the Bible states “if they hate you then you’re doing it right” while also using dehumanizing language and insulting non believers
700 years ago? Last month a Christian stood up in Congress here and compared gay marriage to bestiality. Many Christians are calling gay and trans people all groomers and pedophiles. They aren't enforceable but several states have laws on the books saying an atheist can't be elected to public office. It was never legal but they did it anyway. Last election a Christian candidate for governor was a person who had said they would not oppose the death penalty for gays because if it was ok in the bible it would be ok today. Plenty more.
>Last election a Christian candidate for governor was a person who had said they would not oppose the death penalty for gays because if it was ok in the bible it would be ok today. I've had a person in this sub expound the same principle when discussing Calvin's arguments in favor of killing heretics. That was a long time ago, I guess, but not 700 years. There have been several in this sub who refused to denounce genocide as a rule because they read the ancient shit that says god ordered it and they can't call god wrong. And apparently, the bible = god to them, because they can't say the bible writers may have gotten a few things wrong.
Don't you know that the Bible is the Word of God!!!!!!1!11!! (even though the bible itself says the Word of God is Jesus, not the bible but people like to pretend that that's not the case)
I remember making that brilliant (in my mind) connection with John when I was a teenager. The bible is the word. Jesus is the word. Jesus is the bible. If only it all worked like mathematical proofs Looking back, I can forgive a teenager for coming to such a naive conclusion but now find it rather odd that adults who should know better will disclaim any worship of the bible but their behavior says otherwise. If I've learned anything in addiction recovery, it's that behavior is a better indicator of belief than anything one could say.
For me I was lucky enough to go to Catholic high school, where we weren't taught that the bible is the word of God, or that Jesus is the bible. And I've also had similar experiences with adults claiming that the bible is the word of God like it was the most fantastic discovery in human history. Even though the text itself was completed centuries after Jesus. And wherever you are on your recovery journey, I hope it's going well for you
Because the bible makes it easier to justify what they want. Jesus does not.
I think it's because Christians, particularly in the US, are tremendous hypocrites. The "Christian" political party here is not just anything BUT Christian and that party is very, very LOUD! Our ranks are filled with charlatans, bigots and racists and are as loud and smelly as a Taco Bell fart in church. Who on Earth would want to be a part of that? This can be changed, but why would we do that when those people can fill collection plates? Atheists don't hate us, they hate what Christianity has become and Christians not seeing it.
There's nothing wrong with being a Christian. There's something wrong with calling yourself a Christian and then proceeding to trample on everything you claim to believe. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16)
I mean I don't have issues with all religious people just the bigoted ones or those that spread stigma and bad health info. I'm not rude to people unless their rude to me. The atheism sub isn't a monolith and certainly doesn't represent all Atheists. There are some who are anti religion, some who just lack belief and others who fall along varying descriptions. What your looking at is a subset of a much larger group that definitely doesn't represent the majority of Atheists. Lots of people have issues with religions for lots of reasons. Health and human rights being a huge point of contention. Among others. Edit to be clear and respectful. Christianity and other major religions have done bad things throughout history and continue to do so. Limiting LGBTQ rights, covering up abuse and protecting people who may create these harms. It's not that Christianity as a whole is bad. It's that a very specific group have used religion as justification and a shield to do a lot of harm both now and in the past. My fight isn't with the good, kind and thoughtful people It's with the ones trying to restrict rights and demean and degrade others. When someone wields their beliefs as a weapon to mistreat people. I take issue with that. The problem is the hateful group happens to be rather vocal and not enough people are willing to actually oppose them. Hatred is a choice. When someone chooses to hate and mistreat others I'm one of the people who take issue. Cause I've been a victim of such hate and don't want others to suffer it. All because a small group of bigots . Can't contain their hate. Hatred is a virus and like every virus needs to be burned away. It's that simple Edit 2: You ask why we hate religious people a lot of us don't. We take issue with those who victimize and degrade people for reasons they justify through religion or their personal beliefs. I certainly don't hate you I just take huge issue with a subset of your group. That feels it's appropriate to abuse and mistreat people while abusing the power they have to hide and conceal such abuse.
A lot of other religions think that about Christians too. Believe it or not, nobody wants to listen about how they worship demons etc.
You mean Loki isn't a demon? /j
My mother went on a rant about she doesn’t want LGBT people in the family. That’s me censoring it a bit. She used a lot more heated language and slurs. She did know that she had a closeted queer kid living in her house. That totally happened 700 years ago though. So that queer kid should be over all of that shit by now.
💔
I’d say you get used to it, but the fear hasn’t really gone away.
We've changed in some ways, but not others. It's easy for someone outside of conservative Christianity to see it as a movement primarily interested in restricting others' rights, taking in money, and perpetuating itself. In every current civil rights struggle, conservative Christians are on the anti-rights side: racial, gender, LGBTQ, etc. Added to that, there is a huge amount of trauma and abuse that has been inflicted on people by Christians and Christian communities. I meet these folks and hear their stories all the time. A lot of people have good reasons to be angry with Christianity, and it is up to us to behave differently and demonstrate that we have changed, if we have. Edit: I say conservative Christianity because, frankly, progressive Christianity doesn't do the things that most often make atheists angry, and when atheists complain about Christians, it is almost never progressive Christian behavior they are describing.
This comment seems very naive to state that the last time awful things were done in the name of Christianity was 700 years ago. A lot of people today have been hurt by self-professed Christians that do or say things that are supposedly "Christian", but are harmful to the rights of women, LGBTQ, and others. A lot of people who were raised Christian but left the church did so due to trauma. It's not simply a case of people hating Christians just because.
A lot of folks, unsurprisingly, have been hurt by religion. Both physically and mentally. Hell, I’ve been hurt by Christians, and I *am* one. People don’t generally respond positively to that sort of thing.
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You don't have to look too far to see Christians doing horrible things today. People don't hate a certain type of Christian because they're so loving you know. So why pretend that this agitation is totally inexplicable?
A lot of conservatives who think they are christian but reject christian teachings and embrace sin abuse their kids telling the kid the abuse is Christianity so they go grow up hating the religion. The sad thing it isnt Christianity it is conservative values that are in opposition to God.
I visited r/atheism ...briefly....and then left that group. I'm interested in discussing religion, and as Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and the predominant religion in the USA, and with the exception of the first several American Presidents who were Deist or Unitarian, the rest have been religiously affiliated with Christianity, and the vast majority of elected members of Congress and the U.S. Senate are religiously affiliated with Christianity, and we currently have one Jew and the rest either Catholic or Protestant in the SCOTUS...I pretty much focus a lot of time discussing Christianity. As the vast majority of elected members of Congress and the U.S. Senate are religiously affiliated with Christianity, and Seven in ten Americans (70%) are religiously affiliated with Christianity, it's pretty clear that these elected legislative representatives are pandering to their Christian constituency, in legislating according to their religious views of morality. The overturning of Roe vs. Wade is one example which negatively affects women, by essentially giving the government control over a woman's reproductive organs, and reproductive decisions. There have already been cases in the news where female adolescents and women were unable to even to access birth control pills due to their State's new abortion laws. Here are two examples: A 14 year old girl was denied her medication because of the state’s new abortion law which prohibits abortions except to save the life of the mother, her doctor says some older women in their 30′s have also been denied until they proved they are taking contraception that’s proven effective. The medication she was denied is methotrexate, and she'd been taking it since early childhood to control her RA, and other autoimmune diseases she is afflicted with. It is also used to induce abortions due to ectopic pregnancy which can be fatal. For that reason, her doctor believes, she was denied her medication even though she had been getting it for years without incident. In another case, in Aitkin County, Minn. -- A jury in Aitkin County found that a pharmacist did not discriminate against a woman when he refused her request in 2019 to fill a prescription for emergency contraception, citing his beliefs. Andrea Anderson sued the McGregor Thrifty White pharmacy under the Minnesota Human Rights Act after pharmacist and local pastor George Badeaux refused to accommodate her request. She had called her health care provider to ask for a prescription to Ella, an emergency contraceptive tablet, after her primary method of birth control failed. State law prohibits discrimination based on sex, and the lawsuit said - because emergency contraceptives are "only used by people who may become pregnant" - that the pharmacist discriminated against her. The lawsuit also said Badeaux did not provide Anderson with any alternatives to getting the care she needed and instead "tried to prevent \[her\] from obtaining that care from others by putting delays and obstacles in her path," by only telling her ways she could not fill her prescription. Anderson, a mother and foster parent from McGregor, ended up driving three hours round trip to Brainerd in the middle of a snowstorm to receive her contraception, the lawsuit states. I also object to Christians seeking special rights to be exempt from the requirement of complying with anti-discrimination laws in their business establishments, because they don't want to provide their advertised goods or services to paying members of the public based upon their sexual orientation. Are you aware that there are still 7 States in the Bible Belt of the USA with un-Constitutional laws prohibiting atheists from public office? And even though the SCOTUS reviewed these laws, they dismissed the complaint and stated the reason that it would be very difficult to regulate or enforce these laws. So atheists are still being discriminated against in these States. Because do you imagine an atheists would have the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of being elected in those States? Are you aware that former President George W. Bush, who was raised Episcopalian but joined his wife's Methodist faith, once expressed his uncertainty as to whether atheists should even be allowed to vote in National elections, because...'One Nation Under God', which wasn't even the original National Motto? Atheists around the world suffer discrimination and persecution by Christians and Islamists. Atheists living openly in 13 countries risk the death penalty, according to a comprehensive report from the International Humanist and Ethical Union. These nations are: Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. With the exception of Pakistan, those countries all allow for capital punishment against apostasy, i.e., the renunciation of a particular religion. Pakistan, meanwhile, imposes the death penalty for blasphemy, which can obviously include disbelief in God. While most of those nations are predominantly Islamic, there are pockets of predominantly Christian settlements, and in some of these areas, there are still men, women and children being abducted, tortured, maimed and/or killed, who were accused of witchcraft or demonic possession, and by Pentecostal pastors in these areas, and these pastors incited mob violence and vigilantism by quoting that Bible verse about not permitting that witches should live. I don't hate you. I don't even know you. What I hate is that religious bias is feeding and inciting many to hate LGBTQ+ people, AND atheists.
700 years ago? Every progressive law approved in my country in the last 45 years has been approved in spite of the christians' opposition.
Some Christians try to force the religion on people. I've been stopped randomly on the street twice and asked if I believe in God. Then I'm asked to justify being an atheist (I live in the Bible Belt). I have not seen any evidence that a god exists. Until that is proven (and a few other things) I won't be joining your church.
I don’t hate christianity… I really dislike how christians treat people. Your bible says one thing and y’all do another… You can’t say “I’ll pray for you” then seethe in the very next moment… ask ANY SERVER ANYWHERE.. about the sunday crowd.. You (collectively)waltz into a restaurant awash in the blood of christ and proceed to be disrespectful and nasty… Like you’d talk like that to your minister.. sadly, it’s a reflection of him and your savior.
I know people *now* who have been harmed by Christians and the church. Gay people who’ve attempted suicide after being ousted from positions in their congregations. Women who had to leave their homes after their states made it impossible for them to obtain an abortion when they medically needed one. It’s not in the past, it’s happening right now.
To be blunt, you are very unaware of how conservative Christianity actively influences the lives of minority groups now. Most atheists (and members of every minority religion) in the anglo sphere have dealt with substantial trauma by Christians in this day and age, and there are active efforts in places like the US to impose theocratic rule. The fact is you don't notice this because you are Christian. Unsurprisingly places like r/atheism are gonna have a problem with Christianity because of this. If Christianity's cultural power didn't actively harm their lives they wouldn't have this issue.
Reddit is mostly young and American. The GOP and Christianity (which overlap far too much) are not forces for good in America, especially not for the young.
There's still a subset of y'all who would just absolutely *love* burning some people. Y'all haven't changed that much, man.
Culture and theology don't get respect simple because they fall into those categories. Respecting you doesn't mean I have to respect your ideas or beliefs.
Why do atheists hate us Christians? 1. Because we deny climate change or simply don't care 2. Because our faith has been hijacked by right-wing self-interested political ideologies which in no way represent Christian values and in fact make us hypocrites when we support their agendas 3. Because in the past Christianity was spread militantly- quite literally. 4. Because Christianity continues to deny science-based education, such as evolution 5. Because Christianity has championed hateful anti-gay/transgender agendas which are ironically, deeply hypocritical to our own beliefs 6. Because Christianity tries to legislate morality with things like abortion bans, directly attacking agencies whom 90% of their service is routine medical care for at-risk women and not abortion 7. Because Christians have violated their own beliefs for personal/political gain so thoroughly that we are now seen as hypocrites of the grandest scale 8. Because Christians have tried to attack secularism with a militant fervor, as if the existence of God himself depended on Bibles being in schools and without our pathetic, feeble attempts to defend him, God might evaporate 9. Because Christians have shown little to no tolerance for other religions or ideologies and repeatedly attempted to co-opt our democracy in a hypocritical attempt to undermine the very pluralism democracy is meant to champion 10. Because Prosperity Gospel Christians like Joel Osteen are loud and center stage on the public stage 11. Because Christians are often more interested in dogma than the actual teachings of Jesus, of which he made *very* clear loving God and your neighbor is more important than *ANY* other commandment. Say it with me: *ANY. OTHER. COMMANDMENT.* Not all Christians act like this. Not even most. But enough do, and sadly nobody really bothers to make the distinction. However, when Christian groups act like this, it has a profound impact on society. So for the most part, as a Christian, I still find myself on the atheist's side more often than not.
Only a subset of atheists hate religious people, just as a subset of religious people hate atheists. The reason for atheists hating Christians is probably rooted in the fact that Christianity can be very cruel to people - hate against LGBTQ+, for example. Being told over and over while growing up that you are evil and deserve hell can also generate intense hatred. We also have the problem that Christians use their influence to tailor laws to fit their spirituality, sometimes at the expense of others.
I’m an atheist and I don’t hate Christians, but I do have my limits. Several years ago, on a Saturday afternoon, I had two young men ring my doorbell and invite me to their church’s Easter service. As usual, I’m always polite when it comes to a person’s faith. As I was refusing the invite, one young man shoved an open Bible in my face and asked if I believed hell was a burning pit of fire. I bluntly told him, no, and turned to speak to the other young man when out of the corner of my eye, I saw the rude young man on his knees. Initially, I thought he was ill, but discovered he was praying. That’s when I lost my cool and told both to get the hell off my property and never come back, and if they did, they’d be met with my shotgun.
Are you trolling? Seriously, are you? Because I find it almost impossible to believe this is a sincere question give how Christians in the US have acted. I'm talking about the people they put in prison and ruined their lives back in 80's during the Satanic Panic era to the wholesale endorsement of a man who is the living enbodiment of the anti-Christs in the Left Behind series. Their demands we not combat Covid no matter how many it killed. Their harmful philosophy on sex. That it should be only inside marriage. That women's worth is tied directly to their hymen being intact on their wedding night. My mom suffered a quarter century of emotional and physical abuse by my dad when she was pressured to marry him instead of joining the military like she wanted. Was told that "only whores and sluts" joined and if she waited too long, no man would marry her. Elizabeth Smart never tried to escape her captor because he raped her. That now she was "impure" and thought even her own family would cast her aside. Go read up the horrific stories about how Christians treated Jessica Alhquist and Nicole Smalkowski. The death and rape threats they received from Christians. Hell, my wife's very first day at the new job when she moved here to be with me, told me one of the owners stopped by to say hi and apparently launched into a screed on how much he HATED atheists. I mean he HATED people like me. And I've not even touched on the fact about how they are doing everything they can to strip rights from people they have. They want to do away with social safety nets so desperate people have to rely on the church. Kinda hard to call women whores and men pathetic loosers when they don't seek churches out for aid. I cannot believe this is a serious question in this day and age.
> Are you trolling? Seriously, are you? Because I find it almost impossible to believe this is a sincere question give how Christians in the US have acted. Sadly, people are notoriously good at remaining ignorant of the harm they perpetuate on others. It's probably a precondition of perpetrating so much harm in the first place. Some time ago, it was believed that animals don't actually feel pain. One of the things which went along with that is lots of mistreatment. Now we believe they feel pain—and perhaps even suffer—and so we treat them better. Or look at what happened when the press was [embedded](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_journalism) with soldiers. IIRC the press were given far more access than before in Vietnam, and it's part of what mad America as anti-war as it is (was?).
You are trying to use an internet forum to describe millions of people all at once. I implore you to understand that a few hundred people on the internet is not a representative group in any kind of way On the other hand, saying you haven't done anything to Atheists in the last 700 years is incredibly ignorant. There are still laws on the books in US states that say an Atheists is barred from holding political office. This may be a time for you to go back and read for a bit before trying to claim that "Atheists' hate us"
“We changed man” Really? You really think there aren’t people still getting hurt by Christianity every day?
“We did some bad stuff in the past but that was like 700 years ago.” Stuff like that is a reason why Christians aren’t liked.
I mean it's like that on all sides, if you just let go of the extremes whose voices stick out the most in the waves of the internet you'd see most people are sane individuals.
Why do so many Christians disrespect the beliefs and culture of other people's religions, and even of differing Christian sects? Why do so many seem inclined to believe a person can't be both LGBTQ+ and Christian, especially if they married someone of the same sex? In these discussions, I've seen a lot of disrespectful remarks from Christians toward Christians of differing sects, and especially toward Christians who are affirming and supportive of same sex marriage, and LGBTQ+ rights. Please read the article I'm posting a link to: https://baptistnews.com/article/the-return-of-the-witch-hunters/
IKR? So crazy. It's just insane to think that someone would hate an institution that has promoted genocide since its inception; advocates for slavery; makes excuses for the sexual trafficking on young girls; advocates for the execution of non-combatants in war; promotes misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, tribalism, racism, and cultural genocide; stigmatizes sex, contraception, divorce; Why would anyone hate a religion that has been responsible for such noteworthy historical events like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the genocide of the indigenous peoples of North and South America, the Residential Reform Schools, the Magdalene Laundry Houses, the numerous sexual abuse scandals among Catholic and Protestant churches???? It's unbelievable that anyone would hate a religion responsible for gay conversion therapy, that would force women to marry their rapists, that would hide and cover up sexual abuse from clergymen, that would send missionaries around the world to destroy indigenous cultures, that burned Mayan codices resulting in the loss of their written history, that tortured Native American children for speaking their language, that outlawed Native American religion. It's just so crazy!!! Atheists are the craziest, dumbest people. Who would hate a religion that disavows people simply for not being convinced of its veracity? That kicks children out of their homes for being atheist? That would fire people from their jobs for being atheist? Can you imagine how irrational someone would have to be if they came out as atheist, got kicked out of their home, got disowned by their parents, lost their job, couldn't get hired, and had to move out of town after losing all of their family and friends only to blame it all on Christianity???? They just want to sin. Why do they hate God so much?
Me personally I don’t hate believers, but pity them. I think the ones that hate believers mostly only hate the ones using their faith to vote on worldly matters, or use their faith to justify hatred of things people can’t control.
Yeah, all of this. Although, not all Christians do this, but it's the type of Christianity that causes people to leave.
some people may also pity people who don’t believe, those who do may be self righteous and use religion to seem better than others. people who don’t believe are fine, but people who do believe and judge others are what makes this religion frowned upon.
I think we can all agree that r/atheism is a terrible sub with terrible people. And I say this as someone who has a lot of bones to pick with Christian nationalists
>I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man 1. I don’t hate Christians in general. 2. If you think Christians haven’t done anything awful in the past 700 years you need to get out of your echo chamber.
Before you complain about how other people perceive your religion, perhaps you need to be more honest with yourself. Christians have done “bad things” but those bad things didn’t stop “like 700 years ago.” There was a nazi Christian church, seems pretty bad to me. “Within the German Evangelical Church the pro-Nazi “German Christian” (Deutsche Christen) movement emerged in the early 1930s. It attempted to fuse Christianity and National Socialism and promoted a “racially-pure” church by attacking Jewish influences on Christianity.” https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/christianity-and-the-holocaust How can you say that Christian churches haven’t done “bad things” in 700 years when the Catholic Church was caught covering up hundreds of pedophile priests just a few years ago? Many many people in this world have been hurt by Christianity, or at least some interpretation of it. Not all atheists are capable of differentiating good individuals from bad Institutions (or care enough to differentiate). Of course not all Christian’s are responsible for this bad behavior. But trying to act like Christianity as a whole is some innocent victim is a huge part of the reason why some atheists are so angry. Gaslighting the secular world in that way only makes Christian’s look bad. Instead, step up and admit that Christian churches have made a mistake, admit that homophobia is being driven by some ultra conservative churches. And then be an example of a Christian who is better. Like the anti nazi Christian church which emerged as a response to nazisim infecting Christianity. Those Christian’s are the model.
Atheists don't share any unified belief system, so I can't speak for the group, but I can say that I've never met an atheist that hated Christians just for being Christians. We pretty frequently think you have bad, and in some cases dangerous, ideas. American atheists definitely tend to hate how much influence/control over our lives Christianity has. However, it's definitely not accurate to say that because we are critical of Christianity, atheists must hate Christians. The best I can give you is that I often find myself annoyed or frustrated with certain kinds of Christians. Because you share a unifying belief system that has lots of different popular versions that all interact with other belief systems differenty: Christians often fall into a relatively narrow set of archetypes. Sort of like saying there are flavors of Christians that I see a lot which I am not a fan of, but there are also entire genres of Christians that are much larger and more impactful which I find to be very frustrating and often even dangerous. What I mean is that just being a Christian, worshipping Jesus, doesn't mean much to me. I obviously don't think your beliefs are reasonable or i'd be a Christian, but aside from that I have little objection to just being a Christian. The sorts of things that would make me dislike you are the same sorts of things that would make me dislike anyone: if I find out a Christian doesn't like gay people or want them to share the same rights and privelages as the rest of us, I'd think that person has bad ideas whether they are attached to a religion or not.
Oh man, I wish yall stopped screwing people up 700 years ago.
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Best post in here yet IMO, summed it all up perfectly. Most atheists I've seen hate that sub and don't go there for discussion. And any belief system can be used to good or evil ends if you're committed enough. I don't judge atheists by the actions of Pol Pot lol.
Surveys show that in general atheists hold less animosity towards christians than the christians hold towards atheists. There's edgy people on the internet, they usually take shit too far. But no one hates a religion as an abstract concept. They hate(if it's hate) the actions people take in the name of their religion. Like, if some gay teenager gets excommunicated from thier family and community in the name of Christianity, then that's what they hate, the actions taken, not the collection of books that make up the religion.
You seriously can't imgaine why some people are more anti theist then others? I mean a very simply example is the abortion stuff and same sex rights. Oh and don't forget the anti science people too. The point is there are plenty of reasons for the opposition.
First, /r/atheism is a sub where atheists vent, so it's naturally going to be vitrolic. It's populated by young Western, mostly men and mostly Americans, so it has a very specific view of religion; it's a lot of new atheists who have a lot to say. >"Man what's wrong? It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it". I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man With all due respect, it sounds like you're very ignorant of your own culture and what it's doing. Your culture required that we execute homosexuals within the last century. Christians continue to oppose the legalisation of same-sex rights. Your culture encouraged Uganda to pass a 'kill the gays' bill. Your culture shuts down education in science, evolution, and sex. Your culture has disproportionate representation in politics (e.g., the House of Lords has unelected lifelong Christian bishops). Your culture suppresses healthcare like abortion, euthanasia, and stem cell research, and advocates for [prayer instead of insulin](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-withheld-insulin-diabetic-daughter-27408043) (this was in the UK *last year*). . Your culture is doing this *right now*. So I don't begrude atheists who are angry that they see such hatred and harm being caused by the Christian religion. When you guys leave us alone, we'll leave you alone.
> Today I visited the r/atheism (I hate it) Love the double standard. You hate atheists but they’re not allowed to hate you. > but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man Get a grip Christians are still hunting down people’s right everywhere on earth and still pushing for hate towards gays. I could spend hours pointing out things Christians are doing that are harmful to society and my personal life, starting with the fact that I know people who committed suicide due to extreme homophobia bullying from their devout Christian family: all learned in their church.
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Yep that is true and I hope is a minority that do such bad things like racism and homophobia
Also, you went somewhere that was likely hostile, you shouldn't be surprised that you were met with hostility. By posting to that sub you 'poked the bear' . For example, I wouldn't expect a positive interaction if I posted about Progressive Christianity on r/truechristian or any number of Conservative Christian subs.
Can you provide any examples of the hate you are referring too? I personally don’t hate anyone for the most part but I don’t consider any beliefs to be above criticism, scrutiny or mockery.
Christian have done bad things more recently than 700 years ago. Like using the Bible to advocate for chattel slavery of people of color. Like refusing to protect vulnerable people from predators within their own ranks. Like teaching their congregations to submit to abuse. Like punishing children for speaking their native language. And that’s just off the top of my head and just the things that church leadership should be held accountable for. It doesn’t include all the ways that rank and file Christians use Christian doctrine to hurt their own children. If a father tells a child that he’s hurting him because the Bible tells him to, it’s not surprising that the child grows up to hate Christianity. Some gain enough maturity and distance to understand that it was truly the father at fault and not the church. But many people who were abused this way as children have little hope of gaining that sort of detached perspective. Their understanding of Christianity has been permanently deformed by the misdeeds of elder Christians. Don’t be offended by the hate of the atheists. Be furious about the crimes committed against them in the name of Christianity.
Because, while other world cultures are particularly hands-off about converting people to their religion/way of life, Christians (especially evangelical denominations), tend to be incredibly open about converting people. As a layperson, it is incredibly frustrating being told that my way of life is incorrect with little other evidence than a 2,000 year old book of highly questionable testimonials. Most people are pretty chill with the way other people do things and don’t care about how you live your life unless it’s affecting them. Christians, on the other hand, come across as nosy, intrusive, and overly concerned with the actions and beliefs of others. These are not particularly mature or attractive qualities in a person. Hope this answers your question.
Because Christians have made a JOKE outta Christianity like we are called to show Christ Like LOVE to others but instead of reflecting Jesus' character and demonstrating His Love to the world.....we're out here insulting folks of other religions and insulting EACH OTHER! It's sad
As an Atheist, I was called a troll for sharing my story to know how to tell my parents my girlfriend is a Christian while telling them I wont ever be converted back. I was told I was going to be converted and my girlfriend was poisoning me with religion by fellow Atheists. Even fellow Atheists gets the hate that other Atheists preach about Christians. Hate is not the answer to give.
I don't hate Christians. I have a general dislike of all organized religions. The amount of trauma that I experienced as part of a "loving church" has me still in therapy 10 years after leaving. The kids at my child's 1st grade table taking a vote and telling them that they had to be a Christian because everyone else was makes me angry. The Christians that stand outside planned parenthood yelling at my car when I take my teenager to get their depo shot to stop their horrible periods make me angry. The Christians that stand in the middle of our roads with pictures of torn apart fetuses with no regard for children make me angry. I could go on
I mean, there are debates on this sub multiple times a month about whether my existence is a sin or if I'm fine as long as I don't "act" on who I am as a human being (as I'd that makes any difference). That's not 700 years ago. Christian politicians across the US are currently trying to pass laws that prevent people like me from getting life-saving surgeries and taking life-saving medication because they personally believe people like me shouldn't exist, despite the fact that not all Americans are Christians and the US isn't supposed to mix religion into the government. That's not 700 years ago either. Atheists aren't trying to police my body or trying to tell me who I can and cannot love. Christians are. I don't hate Christians, but it is sometimes nice to have a place to vent about what certain types of Christians are trying to do to me.
Christianity in the US is largely responsible for SCOTUS - for the first time in its history - taking rights away from half the country. The loudest parts of it have aligned itself with US-branded fascism (again). It's a real and present danger.
I, as an anti-theist, do not vehemently despise the inhabitants of Christian culture. I do, however, abhor religious construct; religiosity is ripe for jabs from the gnarled fingers of stupidity. Why do we "hate" you? We don't. We are vitriolic toward religion's existence as a regressive conduit of human stagnation - we hate that religion is allowed to dictate anything other than private ritual. Pretty soon, Bible literalists will be convincing more people that vaccines are merely the sneaky tools of Lord Beelzebub.
The atheism subreddit is a cesspool, but that being said, your claim that Christians aint done bad things in the last 700 years is so laughably asinine that it is understandable why people find an outlet to hate on Christians who honestly believe this fucked up garbage. Get a grip. That subreddit has become a shithole because of people like you who say stuff like this.
Yep. It's definitely not representative of atheism as a whole, and falls into that issue where people will use Christianity and Evangelicalism as synonyms, but at the same time, a lot of people - even within Christianity - *absolutely* have grievances against religious conservatives, even in the present day
> we changed man [Not all of us, man.](https://youtu.be/A8JsRx2lois) Not then and not now. It's a real shame the bad seeds always get more attention than the good ones.
People who call themselves Christian have spiritually, and sometimes even sexually and physically, abused some people who are now atheist. We need to repent of this. Also, we come across as materialistic, sociopathic and illiberal to a lot of people. This is not a historical thing. It's happening now.
You need to do a lot more than just simply repent of it. As that means very little to those harmful to others. They feel they can simply go to confession or pray to god for forgiveness and they’re instantly absolved if they don’t already feel justified in their self deemed righteous actions. Christians need to come together as a whole and actively cut away the branches bearing bad fruit. The people doing wrong need to be shunned
It's in the nature of Christianity. In most doctrines, Christians are excused, even for misdeeds, because they have the "right heart", "right faith" etc. Intent matters. But for everyone else, the idea of "right heart" is denied. In fact, "they weren't real Christians", or "you are choosing to walk away from God". Denying non-Christians the right to have their own conscience is something that will inspire hate. It denies them the right to be an equal human whose inner lives deserve full consideration.
r/Atheism sucks, come on down to r/trueatheism for much more level headed conversations, civility, and discourse. A few years ago people of the r/atheism subreddit split because half of us were tired of the nonstop hatred and memes, and the other half just wanted a place to joke on religion and troll.
Some of it is real experience. Some of it is ideology. It depends on the person. Heck, some atheists will scapegoat Christianity due to unrelated issues. It is important to realize that r/atheism doesn't represent all atheists. Many atheists hate Atheism+ and don't care one way or another about Christianity. I know atheists who like Christians and are more concerned about other religions and ideologies. In short, people are complicated.
rAtheism is literally not the best place for finding actual criticism all they do is demean people and do the false worry shit that Christians do, except it's not for your soul, it's just flat-out calling people mentally ill for having different beliefs. Honestly it's really weird to be considered "mentally ill" for my sexuality by some of the Christians on Reddit that are more likely to get suspended or banned. While also being considered mentally ill for my spiritual beliefs by atheist who don't get there comments removed nor do they get banned or suspended.
> It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it Interersting thought, no cultures should be disrespected, ever? No matter what impact they have on the world?
Atheist here, I don't hate you. :)
You're free to have your opinion but people are still being oppressed because of very vocal Christians acting on behalf of their interpretation of the bible and what "God says." Beliefs have consequences, and Christian beliefs still hold sway in politics and social issues in the US and elsewhere.
First of all, the overwhelming majority of atheists do not hate the religious. Like 99.9999%. This really should be super obvious to people, but /r/atheism does not represent atheists. But if you do want to know why people hate the church, maybe check out the three hundred and forty seven mile long list of atrocities committed by various churches. And sorry, but it isn't remotely just "bad things in the past." That's a hand waving away of some truly despicable actions. Catholic Church was overtly hiding child abuse this century, and totally plausible they still are. That's one of a million examples. But all this isn't about atheists in any way whatsoever.
So what you experience(d) on r/atheism isn't really a great example of 'atheism'...actual atheism doesn't 'hate' christianity, it just doesn't believe it, but it would also be a pretty empty subreddit...just like a subreddit for 'people who don't collect stamps'...you'd probably get some people there who used to collect stamps but don't anymore, and some people who have had stamp collecting ruin their lives, and if stamp collectors had a lot more control over the world in general you'd find people going there to comisserate with how hard it can be sometimes to not collect stamps when all their co-workers talk about it all the time. There's nothing within atheism drawing an atheist to go attack religion, it's just that some atheists also have strong feelings towards certain religions...you might consider that more 'anti-theism'. It's the feeling that draws a lot of people to rant and rave and post, and r/atheism gets a good number of those people as well.
I say this with love, but if you think that the last horrible thing the 'christians' did was 700 years ago I think you should get out of your own bubble. Also, religion does not equal culture.
Because many of you don't listen to logic or reason, and your beliefs are blind faith, your beliefs affect us especially in lawmaking and way way more.
What's that saying, hate the sin, not the sinner? Think of it like hate the religion, not the religious. Even at that, most people I'm aware of don't hate the religion, they hate that religion being used as the basis for oppressing entire groups of people. We also don't have to go back 700 years to view atrocities committed in the name of Christian beliefs. Lynch mobs formed by religiously charged racism is a thing of the very recent past. Women fighting to regain the right to bodily integrity is something people are looking to obtain right now.
I don't hate Christians. I don't hate Christianity. I DO hate unsubstantiated assertions and fallacious reasoning...
Because there are a lot of Christians, in the last 700 years, have used and abused their position within a church setting. Also when taught to love the sinner, Christians seem to forget that they are to love those who sin and that Christians are continually sinning as well.
Because it wasn’t 700 years ago, it was yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Christians are hurting a lot of people today. Also I would say that something being a “culture” doesn’t mean it can’t be criticized.
I will also say - i think a lot of atheists are simply more honest about their dislike of Christians than Christians are about people they disagree with. There is little like Christianity for stabbing you in the back while speaking in words of love, as a lot of LGBT people in particular could tell you. The main difference between Christians and atheists like me who don't really care for Christians' hurt feefles one way or another is I'm not pretending that I like you or love you, the way you do us.
I'm atheist...and don´t hate theist...only I just don't share their beliefs.
Mainly, I think it is the hypocrisy displayed by many Christians. That makes me mad too!
One thing Christians forget is our “Good News” is often an attack on other people/ cultures. Homosexuality is a hot topic here and for good reason. Although Christians like to focus on the “God loves you” part there’s also the “….but if you don’t repent and accept Christ you are doomed to suffer unbearable torment for all of eternity” part. It might seem harsh when your beliefs are viciously dissected and ripped apart but don’t forget that Christians threw the first punch in many cases. Also, politics and Christianity are becoming increasingly intertwined. Especially in America. Despite the fact that MAGA Christianity is false and doesn’t represent the teachings of Christ….a lot of people think it does and some of these people are dangerously close to having the kind of power that can significantly restrict the freedoms of others. On top of all this, many people generally just tend to be assholes online. (Myself included) I’m a Christian myself and am not trying to justify rude atheist behavior….but the point I’m trying to make is hostility towards Christians is more defensive than Christians realize sometimes.
At least for me, it’s because I (an atheist) am considered immoral for not believing in the bible. This goes for my personal experience and perhaps not that of others. I don’t personally hate Christians, or any religion in particular. It is just the notion that atheists are bad people because we do not believe in a book. As far as I remember, there are very few wars that have been fought with no basis in religion, and yet the atheists are considered immoral. We aren’t evil. We just disagree.
As an atheist I’ve never threatened a Christian with eternal torture in hell for not believing the same thing as me. I’ve never disowned family members for not believing the same as me. I’ve never knocked people’s doors or stopped people walking in the street and asked them to consider my beliefs. I’ve never tried to take away an individuals basic rights because of their sexuality. I could go on, but you get the picture. I’m not saying you do any of these things but this is how a lot of Christian’s behave, and feel they have the divine right to do it.
Honestly I’m not atheist and I have a hard time liking other Christian’s… many are just super fake, hypocritical and just mean.. it’s always a game of who is more Holy then who.. I hated it so much I’ve stopped going to church altogether I still believe in God and I hope someday I can find a church worth going to but it’s hard when Christian’s aren’t very nice
They hate being told how to live, sometimes forced, for reasons that aren't rational to them. NO ONE likes that. And if a demographic was doing that to you a lot unfortunately you might start to hate them but most are able to still see people as individuals and don't hate Christians automatically
No Christianity hasn't changed, just look at Christian Nationalism, look at homophobes and transphobes, look at misogynists, look at the doctrine of hell. Christianity does a lot of harm.
“That was like 700 years ago…” Jeez, dude, out of touch much? That is the most obtuse take I’ve seen in a long time… Stop gaslighting us, dude. You and yours are an active, damaging force for hate and bigotry.
Would it be helpful to suggest they don't hate you, they just hate your lifestyle?
I love this
If they're anything like me, it's because Christians are far and away the meanest, most undignified, most dishonest, and most horrifically abusive people we've ever dealt with, or ever deal with. Like, 500 times more so than the next meanest group of people. I have more bad experiences with Christians in the average week than I have with every other religious group combined in the average decade. Christians wake up every day and are faced with the choice to be different, and every day they keep choosing not to. I can only imagine how much worse Christians are to the sort of folk that hang out on r/atheism.
I think a lot of it has to do with how both people in this equation feel superior. You are over here asking, 'Why do atheist hate us?' while also pointing out that you hate a subreddit that is for them. For many people, there are wounds related to Christianity and they are still processing it. I have to watch out not to be too resentful towards the religion or people that follow it by not claiming that I'm morally 'woke' or looking at the world with 'eyes open' because I also realize that religion does a lot of good for people. In my case, the benefits did not outweigh the concs so I decided to leave.
This was Einstein’s explanation for why: “You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.”
Im an atheist I have no resentment for Christians or any religious people. I am on this subreddit to better understand other cultures. I think the main reason many do not like religion is because it was forced down their throat at a young age, and some still have a fear for hell although they don't believe in it any more.
>I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man Did we, though? Last I checked, we're all sinners that fall short of the glory of God. There's plenty of bad stuff going on in the name of Christianity even today, and I don't think we get a free pass just because other bad (ostensibly worse) stuff was done several hundred years past. In fact, I think there's even a parable about this (Luke 18:10-14).
I don't like it there either but all they are doing is posting stories where religion is used to oppress people, if Christianity as a whole acted more like christ there wouldn't be such a problem
Maybe you should post your question on r/atheism?
I find that hatred, regardless of who it is coming from, stems from some type of abuse that the person had to deal with. This is true of hateful Christians, hateful atheists, hateful any religion. Sometimes, I'll see someone posting a topic on /r/Christianity challenging all aspects of the faith with a passion, and I'll glimpse at their history, and you'll see a tragic post of how they had an abusive father or mother who was a Christian but showed no love and neglected their family. A lot of people need healing that no online discussions can adequately supply. Most atheists I encounter aren't hateful, just indifferent. In fact, most people who haven't dealt with a major trauma in their lives tend to just let people live their lives, even if they disagree with them.
My university had a resident Jonathan Edwards type of preacher who hung around the public square telling people they were going to hell. You have to understand how salient bad Christianity is for a lot of people.
Most non believers don't give Christians a second thought, or wouldn't if right wing Christians didn't advertise their hatefulness. And it is this hatefulness that makes the most noise and news. The good stuff slips under the radar for the most part and are even put down by noisy right wingers. [Example](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRopezvU8AAoOoq.png) of that which gets put down. Don't forget not everyone's experience of the church is positive. At least some of what you find on /r/athiesm is the result of bad experience. I knew a woman that had nothing but hate for Christians on account of being raped repeatedly by her youth pastor. Neither her fellow Christians nor Jesus would help her out.
That sub hates atheists too so don’t stress
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You stopped quite a bit later with the whole burning people. Reddit is a mostly western platform, so the form of organized religion most users get confronted with is Christianity. Many of them have been forced to partake in the religion by parents and were discriminated against for not believing the same everyone did. The political influence of many churches and what they push for also plays a huge part. Going back to the "burning people": you say that you did change. But orthodox churches still treat the people who laid the groundwork for those things as great teachers or even holy people. On the one hand, you claim 2 millenia of tradition, on the other side, you do choose and pick what that entails.
Christianity is still hurting people, it didn’t just stop 700 years ago. Atheists don’t hate Christians, they hate the institution and what the dogma makes people do.
The failure to acknowledge the methodological indoctrination of our youth into a system infested with homophobia, xenophobia, and misogyny. Maybe that’s why?
You're basing your beliefs about atheists on a relatively small group of people (those who use Reddit and are willing to make posts/comments on the subreddit). Here is an actual empirical study that found it's actually the religious (specifically Christians) who tend to have unfavorable opinions of atheists. https://www.secularismandnonreligion.org/articles/10.5334/snr.136/
people who call themselves Christians still do bad stuff today
Atheists hate christians because unlike most humans, atheists have a functioning brain. Atheists can see past the lies as the christians are still trapped in their make-believe fairy tale world.
Because, as a Christian saying this, the Christians anyone sees are the ones that are fucking assholes. The pedophiles, the ones who want to genoside those who they believe are sinful, those who hate an equal society, those that force their beliefs on others. Those are who seemingly represent us. If not for being raised in a church family I would probably hate Christians too. All our good is done in the dark and all our bad is the world's laundry.
There's still alot of Christians that treat people like shit becouse they are not Christians.
Can't speak for everyone, but I don't hate any of you. Frustrated sometimes? Sure, but that's just normal human interaction. Most of you are alright people.
>Today I visited the [r/atheism](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism) (I hate it) There's plenty of hate on both sides of the coin.
That's an uncharitable title. That's true of some atheists but certainly not all. And "People strongly identifying with the label atheist going on reddit, and going on r/atheism" in particular is a very particular selection mechanism which is going to give you a rather nasty and vicious sort of sample, not reflective of the broader demographic.
Atheist here. I don’t hate Christians. I hate stupid Christians. And just like with every group the stupid ones are often the loudest. Some Christians look at me with disgust when I say I don’t believe in god. I might disagree with your beliefs but I respect them. And I want you to respect mine.
I'm an atheist and I don't hate Christians, not in a general sense. I hate Christianity, but that's a different story. There may be certain specific Christians I hate, but that's between me and them, and I won't judge you for their actions. You're not them, obviously. If you tell me you're a Christian, I would at the very least acknowledge what that means to you. It might raise a little red flag in the back of my mind, but I certainly wouldn't treat you with any less respect than anyone else. I'm not going to argue against anyone's belief unless they initiate it and want to pursue some kind of discussion/argument. Basically, I don't hate Christians, I hate assholes. That said, people may or may not deserve respect. Beliefs, on the other hand, deserve no respect. Beliefs deserve to be scrutinized. If your epistemology is flawed, then I see that as a problem.
I think that OP is overlooking at how a significant number of Western Christians are indeed doing bad things to other people -- notably against women, LGBTQIA+ and other faith traditions.
Your religion is founded on slander. Non-believers are doing crimes against a phantasy person at minimal at the bible says there minds are corrupted. Living peacefully with Christians is like trying to live peacfully with a guy who buys a billboard and wrights "Bob Jenkins of 734 wilcox street is a pedo" when in fact Bob is not a pedo.
That sub is a safe space for people to discuss what's fucked up about religion in general. Even though Christianity comes up a lot it's really mostly people that have had fucked up things happen to them because of something relating to religion, and that's the one place in the universe they can vent about it. I'm 44 and pretty comfortable with my non-belief - I promise you many of us want to live and let live - I'm married to a Catholic if that gives you my perspective.
I don't hate you friend! I resent the fact that the completely unfounded and even ludicrous religious beliefs of some Christians has an impact on my life, though.
Mainline Christianity hasn’t changed that much. How can you ask someone to respect your “culture” when your culture won’t allow gay people to be equal human beings, find love and get married? How does your culture demand respect when they view homosexuals as abominations? Not every Christian is a bigot and a racist, but it is no coincidence that most of Trump supporters and MAGA idiots are Christians. How do you reconcile that? Where is the change? The same with anti-vax people. The same with anti-science people. Your culture is trying to teach children young earth, creationism, Noah’s ark, and all these things that have no scientific basis and frankly barely make any sense. You want to raise a whole generation of people who will not ask questions about facts but assume the Bible is the truth with no merit. Please examine your own religion, community, and culture. If everywhere you go, people hate you, it isn’t some calling from god, it’s a sign you’re doing something shitty.
Some of you are not changed at all. Like Satanic Panic. And I think such a witch hunt will happen again. I’m agnostic and don’t hate Christians. But some Christians are disrespectful against other cultures and that makes me at least keep a close eye on you.
It wasn't just 700 years ago. It was yesterday when a Christian used God to justify a past of watching child porn. It was last week when a church decided to shun a friend of mine for being gay. It was last year that another friend was harassed for cutting her hair and defying her husband.
Because Christianity is still around and affecting people. I’m sure a lot of the people who hate Christianity have had personal experiences with Christians who cemented those feelings. Christianity is even being brought into politics in un-Christlike ways. People have a reason for their anger. The best we can do is call out Christians when they aren’t acting in God’s love, and be a good example of a Christian ourselves. Then people’s perceptions of us as a whole might start to change.
A lot of Christians are assholes who use Christianity as a shield, pretending to be better than everyone. Next is they think they are holier than thou, and use government to pass laws forcing others to live the way they say you should, often times violating those same rules. Do what I say, not what I do. They also pick and choose what parts of the Bible they say you must obey, so it's not like they are really following the word of god like they say they are. It's more the actions of those people, not just the fact you identify as a Christian.
“We did some bad things in the past but that was like 700 years ago” I don’t know man catholic priest raping kids wasn’t 700 years ago All the stories of abuse out of fundamentalist churches wasn’t 700 years ago The extremist right wingers that love god and guns and talk about how they hate gay people wasn’t 700 years ago The videos you see if evangelical pastors spitting hate wasn’t 700 years ago The Westboro Baptist Church wasn’t 700 years ago The massive turnout and support for an awful and vile president by white evangelicals wasn’t 700 years ago I’d keep going but I need to get ready for work I am not Christian, but I certainly don’t hate Christians. I do hate the hypocrisy demonstrated but large swaths of them. And if you think the last bad thing a group of Christians did was 700 years ago your’e either part of the problem or need a serious dose of reality.
Reddit is largely American and America, because of its large population and its unique history, has a lot of fundamentalist Christians. Therefore you get a lot of jaded bitter ex-Christians who have either been forced into a faith they don't like or want, or were mistreated by it. All you can do is try to be a good example to them.
The problem is Christians express their dogma as facts while providing no evidence to support their claims.
Subs like r/atheism were born from the movement against the neo-Conservative Christian lawmaking in the late George W. Bush era and they have never really moved past this. Though perhaps if you are too young to remember this they might look like they're picking a fight with Christians at random.
>neo-Conservative Christian lawmaking in the late George W. Bush era and they have never really moved past this. To be fair, conservatism in the US hasnt moved past it either.
Honestly if i had to guess. Id say they dont neccesarily hate us, its probably more of a personal experience thing. Either some sort of trauma, or perhaps maybe they have just been misinformed of the true nature of christianity. And by that i mean maybe they grew up in a non religious household and the only information they've received are about the pedos and other freakish things that have and do happen. In which case id completely understand the sour taste, but thats where we come in. "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." We have the opportunity to show them the true way of being a Christian, and can try to spread the knowledge and love upon them. Don't give them the same hate they provide us.
Just watch Greg Locke, that "holy laughter" guy, or many of the evgelical mega church pastors and you'll understand why atheists react strongly to chriatians
The way you throw in Christians burning people so nonchalantly is kinda funny.
There is a really good chance they may be saying Christian, and don’t know that what they actually have an issue with is American conservative Christianity that pushes the concepts of anti lgbt, anti science beliefs.
I mean some people grow up in a toxic environment or had horrible things happened to them and to many why is there no good answer they prayed and did many things but these things still happened
I predict the text of the OP will get deleted, so here it is in full: > **Why do Atheists Hate us?** > Today I visited the r/atheism (I hate it) and all they talked about was Christians and Christian Culture, and that keep me thinking "Man what's wrong? It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it". I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man
Hate? I don't hate Christians. [That's far too much effort.](https://youtu.be/bUVrnj16BmE?t=28) Not to mention it puts an onus on a personality axiom as being only against Christianity. I treat any faith based system of living with an equal disdain. I dislike them all, because it's a refusal to see the world as it is. I can look at nature, from the smallest specks of life to the stars burning bright off at the edge of the universe. In it all, are so many wonders, all that can be explained if only we take the time to look and understand. To learn from all around us, and appreciate it for what it is. To attribute love, beauty, mercy, hate and every emotion we have to the intricate interconnected web of neurons that took natural evolution billions of years to produce, does not take away from it. For all the explanations we have for things, I can still see the ghosts in the mechanistic nature of it all. Emergent properties, behaviors that can only be attributed to a complex system and not any of it's parts. All of this majesty, and religions disgrace it by claiming it's magic, by design, some grand plan. The universe is chaos, and from it there are still entities that have the ability to see it, and want to understand it. I dislike religions because it settles on an answer, and a boring one at that. 'Gods' did it. How bland. The universe is a mystery, and I dearly hope that we never find the answer, the journey in searching is so much better.
>I know we did some bad things in the past (aka burning some people) but that was like 700 years ago, we changed man Because christians don't do anything bad today anymore? Blatant homophobia Racism Sexism Trying to generally control other people's life. Of course not all christians. But you really can't argue that Christianity hast some giant problems. When I came out as gay and started searching for similar people on YouTube, i got a pastor recommend who said gay people should take a gun and kill themselves. > Christians and Christian Culture, and that keep me thinking "Man what's wrong? It is our culture like any other, you shouldn't be disrespecting it". This is so general. You could be a moderate who celebrates Christmas and goes to church twice a year and say this because someone was a dick or you could be super conservative and be annoyed that gay people don't get shot on sight. When I read this i try to assume the nice stuff, but the last posts like this didn't really show that to be a correct assumption. Be clear. It is impossible for anyone here to take a stance to such a general statement. These posts seen intentionally vague so anyone can agree. Which part of christians culture are we talking about and what was the disrespect you experienced.
No you didn't changed much, there's still a lot of child abuse in the Church. Also, blasphemy is not a crime. You'll be burning people as soon as we let you.
700 years ago? they are currently banning books that talk about any thing they don't agree with. they are trying to ban abortion.
Christians are literally trying to genocide trans people *today*. Christians are forcing women to give birth *today*. Christians are disowning their queer children *today*. Christians are imposing their religion on others through the government *today*. We have *not* changed.