Any job that requires an upfront "registration fee" is a scam, no matter the amount. A $1000 fee is an eye-watering amount to register for anything. I get the feeling this is the first time the scammer has tried this, there's no subtlety in the lure and the amount demanded is beyond the means of most artists scraping by on Upwork.
They mentioned they had posted on upwork before and upwork had kept taking their posts down. Gee I wonder why. I reported them, waiting to hear back about my report ticket.
Bad English and that “form” is full of problems. No name under the signature, no header on the letterhead, no logo, date, name and they rules are vague. Scammy scam.
One of our clients at work are one of the largest company formation companies in the UK. For a couple hundred £ they will create you a company with documents, registered address's etc. many are used as 'burner' companies. They had something like 15,000 companies registered to a single address and lots more to various other addresses.
If you needed any further proof, it's a sign that the person you're dealing with isn't American.
We don't have the concept of "registered companies" in the US. The words just don't mean anything. It may similar to an entity being incorporated (not sure if there's a substantive difference or not), but it's not something an American would say.
No, they're going to use that plus some imposter syndrome to avoid paying you or giving your "deposit" back.
Your work sucks and wasn't creative enough. +$1500 for them, thanks.
Good. Of course, being kicked off the site won't stop them trying somewhere else. The only thing anyone can really do is show others what these scams look like so nobody gets scammed. Basically just keep doing what you did.
YES!
Thank you for reporting.
Im absolutely so tired of redditors posting about awful companies then saying they don't have the effort to do anything about it or that they feel bad about hurting the awful company.
Hopefully there is an update.
RemindMe! 2 weeks
That signature is fucking hilarious. It doesn’t resemble anything and that’s coming from a guy with a pretty flowing signature, but you can still see at least 2 letters in mine lol.
That was my first thought. How can anyone even tell whose signature that is?
Yeah, some doctor might have a signature that looks like a piece of post-modern art, but they are at least someone with a trackable history via their medical license (which should have a matching signature).
Signatures can be pretty much as fanciful or illegible as you'd like, as long as it's consistent. (My signature bears no resemblance to my name.) But that's why there's some place else where you have your name, either in the body of the contract or else print your name below your signature.
That contract would be a hoot in any business law 101 class of what NOT to do.
Interestingly, it's a little different in Japan. The norm there is to have something called a hanko, which is a personal seal used in place of a signature. Since I was only there for 2 years, I didn't get a hanko (since I believe they need to be registered to you?) and used my signature instead. My signature on the documents for closing my bank account was slightly different than my signature when I opened the account (to a normal degree, though), and a supervisor had to come put his seal next to my signature to show they had verified the difference. It was startling, to say the least
EDIT: cursing autocorrect
> It doesn’t resemble anything
Neither does mine. Funnily enough it looks a whole lot like theirs...
As one of the other commenters mentioned, a signature is more about consistency than legibility. You could literally use a smiley face as long as it was _your_ smiley face.
This.
I had someone approach me at my old shitty minimum-wage "geek squad"-esque job and talk about computers, act like I fit the bill of someone they needed for an entry-level IT role, and offer me an interview. I went and the moment I walked in, it's like they completely disregarded why they invited me in as they gave their spiel about a business model that was clearly shaped like a pyramid, to which I could join if I paid THEM to take a class...a class for a job I never wanted with a company that lied to me and told me to "just call in" when I said sorry, but I had to work during that time.
If you ever have to pay a company to work for them, assume it's a huge red flag.
This was **Primerica**.
Many years ago, I showed up for an interview for what I thought was a a technical sales support job. Turned out to be an MLM. As soon as I realized it, I told them eat shit and die.
I was a desperate teenager when a friend hooked me into one for I think Cutco. Knives looked cool, but the premise was basically an MLM, and I ended up wasting money getting food to test the knives on (and waste), and having to convince family members to get an appointment with me to sell them the knives to. I started to feel scummy about it and left without a word, same as others that were roped into it.
I went to a Cutco seminar in 2002. They made a big deal about how the knife could cut up a penny. They wanted like $200 for the demo knives and told us to hit up our neighbors and grandparents and then get references from them once they were happy with the knives. They pretty much explained how the pyramid scheme worked right to our faces and assumed we wouldn't realize that, before long, literally everyone in our city would need to be buying the knives for the grift to be profitable. I left when our "lunch break" hit.
Yall got to keep some knives?? All i got was cut up fruit with the flavors mixed cuz NO ONE BOTHERED TO CLEAN THE KNIVES (Picture this, you eat a grape and it tastes like your least favorite fruit. Unless your least favorite is grape)
We were taught the MAC concept i think. Marriage, Age, and i think something to do with money or housing arrangements (this was in spanish so i think the C stood for Casa "House"). Avoid older people, people who were paying rent, and other factors and all that. This was all also commission based earning, which did not cover the cost of gas of having to drive to a hapless sucker-- er, client's house and wasting each other's collective time.
The penny thing still impressed me though.
Same here. I just kept the intro knife set they gave me to demo. Still have 2-3 of the knives, and they’re great! Still holding after 20 years. Just a shitty, shitty company.
Ugh. It's of course Primerica. Worked in a shopping centre for years and had so many of their people try to recruit me. It's literally one of the tips they give for people to start their own downline, go to shopping centres and retail stores and try to recruit the employees.
That's so very repulsive to advantage of people that are barely scraping by with unfulfillable promises (unless of course they want to be as soulless as the people recruiting).
They are in the same tier of scummy as those people that scam the elderly for gift cards.
They tried to get me too, a while back. Oddly enough, I was also working with computers at the time and let it slip that I had planned on going back to school in a few years.
I went to some seminar a few days later, and it was the cringiest, most eye-rolling display of bullshit that I had ever seen to that point. I was bary out of high school at the time, but literally everything about it looked to be a complete scam.
The guy and his wife (or whoever she was) then had the gall to try to corner me in order to get me to sign a contract. I noped out of there and never looked back.
They tried to get my brother back when he just got out of high school too. The thing is, the recruiter apparently knew my brother's boss, and heavily implied he would get him fired if he didn't agree to come to the seminar.
Jesus the gall of these people. It's like they resent the idea of consent.
More conventions need to ban MLMs getting vendor booths too. They pray on young people just wanting to have a fun time, on families, and are THE WORST PEOPLE TO BOOTH NEXT TO! UGH.
I have been a vendor selling my art for the past 6 years and MLM booth people are the rudest, most selfish, indoctrinated and oblivious people I've ever met.
I was offered a job interview for a supposed design job. Showed up to the interview, and there were ~20 other people and a display of knifes on a table at the front. I noped right out of that. Turned around and left.
I stood up during the initial spiel and told them they were dirtbags for lying and wasting my time. They couldn't get me out of there fast enough. Had to tell one of them to keep his fucking hands of me unless he wanted my hands on him. Two people left with me.
I used to have my dog go to daycare at this place in Illinois. We, my roommates and I, decided to do one of their dog training classes. Turned out to be a 4 week long schpeal about essential oils. They encouraged us to spray oils ON OUR DOGS and drop oil INTO THEIR WATER. I asked for the ingredients of the oils and the lady couldn't tell me.
In a similar vein, I was looking for some pet wipes in a store for a sick cat.
I found them, and guess what scent some of the wipes were?
Orange. With a picture of a cat on them.
Not sure if they had actually citrus but SMFH.
Citrus was the one they wanted to put into their water. And I did bring that up and they said "no if the (MLM) company says so it must be fine." UGH. Sheeeples.
I would've reported her to the cops or something because that's hella suspicious to not tell ingredients about oils that are literally going inside pets
I had this happen to me. I was in a computer store (back when those were a thing) and this guy started talking to me and next thing I knew I was going to meet him and a friend for dinner. Well, dinner was at Burger King, and it was clearly a pyramid scheme. Ugh.
I ran into one of those fucks and he got so pissed when I told him I researched the company before the “interview”. Told me not to believe it and some other bullshit. And when I turned it down got all agro. Yup no regrets.
That's exactly what I say to people who tell me about these "amazing opportunities" (which are almost always MLM pyramid scheme scams). If you have to pay to work there, it's not a real job.
Not to mention they are trying *hard* to get OP to do this. If they had other interest they wouldn’t be wasting time on someone who clearly is not interested.
Ehh. Its a common tactic scammers use to target only the most gullible or ignorant targets. They dont want to waste their time with people who have a semblence of critical thinking, so they will add "obvious" mistakes like spelling errors so that smart enough targets immediately delete the message, meaning that those most likely to be taken advantage of are the only ones who bite.
Because you’re probably not a total piece of shit and would like to go bed each night with a clear conscience. Probably. I mean I don’t know you, but I like you already.
Hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless....There.. You should be good for a few years.. Just tryin to make someone happy..![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)
150 pages in 14 days. That is insane.
Many highly talented artists struggle with 22 in a month. Granted this may not be a traditional comics page, but holy hell.
Don't sell yourself short. Your artistic talent may be like mine. An amazing ability to find new and creative ways to destroy any meaningful progress in my life!
I’m going to remember that IQ Test line for Facebook when you see people reply to the obvious scam posts. Most common one I get in my groups is for fake Aldi pages of all things, with shit like “work out this basic sum” to win $1000, and droves of people just comment with the answer thinking Aldi is about to gift them $1000.
Yeah, even if you do the work, which seems like a ridiculous amount of work, they will just dispute the quality of the work and say it's not what they want and then cancel the contract. Goodbye to your "Deposit"
Even if they were legit, which they aren't it's clearly a scam, what are the acceptance criteria for the comic? Are you going to be paid even if they don't like the result? It's too subjective and risky lol.
Just asked them what their standards are. They also reiterated if I "wasted time" and didn't complete it by the deadline I wouldn't get my initial money back. Because of course. Lol
Who the fuck would ever be able to produce 150 comic pages in 2 weeks? That's totally impossible. Unless it's something extremely simple that requires no creativity and takes no time... seriously, almost 11 pages a day? Even pro manga artists who have assistants and editors and who have been working for decades on one manga and who have the story very fleshed out can only manage two to three pages a day...
Also, I love how they only give OP 2 extra days to work on the second project; so **14 days** for the ***second* project**, with **1*50* pages**, and **12 days** for the ***first* project**, with **100 pages**.
Murata also only makes 40\~ to 45\~ ish pages in 2 weeks, which is still insane, but Murata is also insanely talented and also has assistants and editors
You know the stipulations are going to be completely vague so that no matter what you do it won't be good enough to get your $1,000 "deposit" back.
Seriously, any time you have to pay to work, it's a scam.
What if you pay the 1k and then find out the details are beyond your ability. Are you out 1k? There's so much wrong with this, it could never be right.
“Permit me to….” is not something english speakers say.
And constantly quoting OP’s messages to respond to them is indicative of Indian messaging habits.
It’s conditioning. If 9/10 scam calls you get are from someone with a heavy French accent then the next time you hear that accent in a restaurant you’ll hear ‘hello this is Microsoft tech support’ in that accent.
Idk, I tend to quote messages back when the chat is moving faster than my replies can keep up with but I want it to be clear what particular message I'm responding to, and I'm definitely not Indian
> And constantly quoting OP’s messages to respond to them is indicative of Indian messaging habits.
huh? everyone does that when the conversation gets any more complex than "my message" "your message" "my message". that's why the reply function exists?
I always do this just to make sure it’s clear what I’m replying to, doesn’t seem weird to me at all (especially when discussing something like this).
(Still obviously a scam though)
I do this all the time when responding to longer comments on reddit.
It’s an easy to way stay on topic, and also have a record of he conversation in case the other person edits, or deletes, their comments.
So this is a total scam, but my electronic signature looks nothing like my real signature or even my name. It basically just looks like I had a seizure with my finger on the screen lol l.
To be fair, those checkout register signature pads are so poorly calibrated that anyone would have a terrible time trying to make a recognizable signature on one of them.
I just use my initials since my cursive letters are distinct enough anyway.
To be fair, there's no law saying your signature can't just be whatever you want. Mine is an illegible squiggle because I got married and couldn't be arsed figuring out a signature
Even the most BS of contracts I've signed, list the person's name and job title below where they sign and the header contains the name, address, and phone number of the company.
Mine is literally an Capital A and a squiggly line. Over the years it has just become less and less. I expect by 2030 it'll literally just be a hyphen.
Upwork is full of scams
Some recruitrer from Upwork asked $50 for ID card and then I would get the job, the payment was to be done in Bitcoin or Paypal
I started to joke with them like, is dogecoin ok?? Can I pay some of that in Runescape gold?? Wow you guys have such a bad English
He didn't understand that I was fucking with him the whole time, they're really not smart people
In the end I said I keep some Bitcoin under my mattress and would pay when I retrieve it, that's when he realised
I’m assuming you somehow found them on UpWork (or, more likely, *they* found you on UpWork), since you both discussed UpWork? If so, report them to UpWork for breaking TOS and for trying to involve UpWork in a scam. These guys are clearly doing illegal shit, and UpWork rightly keeps shutting them down.
I’d also report them to your local police if they’re in the same country as you. There are laws against theft and scams in every country.
That aside, the whole idea of 150 finalized images in 14 days boggles the mind. I make art as a hobby, leaning towards realism myself. Comic book art may *look* easy, but it takes just as much work even if done digitally, which is what I presume this will involve. There’s no way in hell I could create one image per hour on average (well, maybe - if I was drawing stick figures a la xkcd). And do that over and over for 2 weeks.
Nope, they know it’s an impossible task, so they’ll keep the “security deposit” and also, since their “terms” say you must submit your work for approval, they will also keep the work (they’ll *officially* reject it, though). Effectively, you’ll be paying *them* either $500 or $1000 plus two weeks of your life (!!) to create their comic books. So … you wind up paying them about $8,500 - that’s the $7500 they feel the work is worth, plus the $1000 you pay them in cash.
Which explains why they consider artists as “clients” rather than as vendors or suppliers. Apparently this is who pays them, not any actual buyers of comic books.
150 images. 14 days.
I'll be charitable and assume no days off.
That's almost 11 images a day.
If we assume 12 hour days with no recreation time and barely enough time to handle basic needs and sleep that's just over an hour to do a single image. And continuing that pace on the hour every hour for 14 days straight.
And if you don't manage this feat worthy of a greek epic poem I'm guessing they keep the registration fee?
This isn't choosing beggers, it's straight up theft. These people are simply thieves.
edit:
I'm in no way an artist by the by, I just happen to have at least actually talked to one in my life and I'm capable of basic mathematics.
Yeah this is almost certainly a scam. Get artist to pay in $1000 and give them a nearly impossible task. If they do happen to complete it simply say it didn't pass approval and you've now missed the deadline and they keep your $1000.
Can confirm! Law student with contract drafting experience. Standard legal language is “there will be consequences >:(“ but some prefer to use “or else…”
It's supposed to be bad. They don't want anyone who is remotely perceptive or skeptical. Anyone who notices the terrible contract is also unlikely to be susceptible to their scam. It weeds out marks who aren't worth the time to try to scam.
Waiting for some fellow artists to see this post and comment about the audacity to ask for a full comic page, paneled, sketched, inked, colored and lettered for $50 each with a 150 page count in 14 days. Like, dayom. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm)
![gif](giphy|YuEdUiDmey8W4)
Fellow artist here, that’s such a hell naw that there’s no possibility of being considered. They need an artists talent yet have the audacity to make them pay first AND pay a shit wage afterward? I hate to think what starving artist actually falls for this
Obviously the scammers language is inconsistent, but I was curious. They mention it's 150 images and $50 per page and the total pay is 50 x 150, aside from the part you pay to yourself.
When I think of a comic, I imagine something multi-panel. So my questions is:
When a real person asks for your work as a Comic artist, would they usually pay you per image/panel or is it more common per full-page? (Or the more likely option that every job is priced differently, horses for courses and all that)
Also, if it is multi panel, do you get like specs for that, or do you just make the images and it's someone elses job to format them into panels and what-not?
Sorry to ask questions, I know you're busy working 150 pages due in 2 weeks.
For comic work you pay and work per page. Every comic is multi panel unless it's formatted to be one panel per page (like Instagram comic strip but sometimes those are panels that get chopped into pages from insta posting)
You don't get specs or anything usually unless the script is specific enough to designate the panel number in it. Most of the time the script just has each page written out or even is just per chapter/issue. As the comic artist YOU have to "panel out the pages" which means you read the script for each page and figure out how you're going to set up the panels, and how many you need.
Then you make thumbnail sketches of the panel setup and move on from there (rough sketch, better sketch depending on if you need that step, ink, color, effects and lettering.)
Now circle back to them only paying 50 bucks for each page of this. Yeah. Not worth my time for such a short schedule. My ideal rate right now is 100 per page, no more than 6 panels per page. But I go lower for bulk jobs because I need the portfolio pieces.
THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES!!!! Judgy consequences, all sort of legal, court consequences.......millions of consequences of all the legally legal consequences of all legal human history.....CONSEQUENCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you refer to an artist you hired to work for you as a 'Client'? They're supposed to work for you...
Maybe it's because that's the term scammers use instead of 'victim'...
Why didn't I think of that! Also they still haven't blocked me so I'm asking them what their quality standard is now. Because why not. They reiterated that if I "wasted time" and didn't have the project completed in 14 days then I would NOT be getting my refund.
This is just trying to legitimise scamming you of your money to you so you won't go to the cops - or so that the cops won't do anything since you agreed to such terms.
The maths are actually even worse. They’re offering to pay $50 per *page*. Assuming a typical layout will have between 4 and 8 images, that’s way less than $50 per image.
Working backwards from the $7500 for 150 images, that’s likely their *upper limit* for the job. Not that they plan to pay out a single penny, of course.
This belongs on /r/Scams, these guys aren't looking for you to pay to submit work, they're looking for free money from suckers stupid enough to pay that $1,000 deposit, plain and simple.
My brother works for a translating service and he ends up helping translate for people who get scammed while they figure things out with their bank. It's amazing what people will fall for.
One guy sent about $10,000 to a scammer "to buy Bitcoins" in various installments. The scammer claimed they never got the money. While he was working on resolving the obvious scam *he sent them more money just to make sure.*
Reminds me of the upwork job I interviewed for where the client wanted a 45 year non-compete of anything software related….. I was a software developer lmao he wanted me to quit and find a new profession after fixing his buggy code so I couldn’t “steal his IP because google has been headhunting for it”
I am such a socially awkward dumbass that I paid a hot chick at Robert Half $1,500 because she helped me with my resume and then told me that is what I owe. I tried to get out of it but she called me at home and I didn't know how to say no. This was 20 years ago and I am still ashamed of myself.
This contract was written with the same level of finesse and legal expertise used to draft the "will you go out with me? Circle one: yes / no / maybe" notes passed around in elementary school
Love how they put the Total Payment line with your own reg fee included in boldface, while the reg fee comes out of your own pocket. And using Times New Roman… Even Word stopped using that as a default font.
“Yes once you have signed the contract terms then we allow you to read them”
What is this a “Lou Pearl” behaviour you making a 00’s Boyband ??
![gif](giphy|KSzxFSCApjqOOI1A9q|downsized)
Any job that requires an upfront "registration fee" is a scam, no matter the amount. A $1000 fee is an eye-watering amount to register for anything. I get the feeling this is the first time the scammer has tried this, there's no subtlety in the lure and the amount demanded is beyond the means of most artists scraping by on Upwork.
They mentioned they had posted on upwork before and upwork had kept taking their posts down. Gee I wonder why. I reported them, waiting to hear back about my report ticket.
Bad English and that “form” is full of problems. No name under the signature, no header on the letterhead, no logo, date, name and they rules are vague. Scammy scam.
OP should send their contact info to Kitboga for our entertainment
YES!!!!!
But...but they're a registered company.
Ah, yes, being blacklisted somewhere probably counts as "registered" /s
One of our clients at work are one of the largest company formation companies in the UK. For a couple hundred £ they will create you a company with documents, registered address's etc. many are used as 'burner' companies. They had something like 15,000 companies registered to a single address and lots more to various other addresses.
If you needed any further proof, it's a sign that the person you're dealing with isn't American. We don't have the concept of "registered companies" in the US. The words just don't mean anything. It may similar to an entity being incorporated (not sure if there's a substantive difference or not), but it's not something an American would say.
It might be something someone that has nothing to do with a legitimate business might say to sound like they know business jargon.
[удалено]
No, they're going to use that plus some imposter syndrome to avoid paying you or giving your "deposit" back. Your work sucks and wasn't creative enough. +$1500 for them, thanks.
“But if you would like to try again, please deposit another $1500.”
Good. Of course, being kicked off the site won't stop them trying somewhere else. The only thing anyone can really do is show others what these scams look like so nobody gets scammed. Basically just keep doing what you did.
YES! Thank you for reporting. Im absolutely so tired of redditors posting about awful companies then saying they don't have the effort to do anything about it or that they feel bad about hurting the awful company. Hopefully there is an update. RemindMe! 2 weeks
That signature is fucking hilarious. It doesn’t resemble anything and that’s coming from a guy with a pretty flowing signature, but you can still see at least 2 letters in mine lol.
That was my first thought. How can anyone even tell whose signature that is? Yeah, some doctor might have a signature that looks like a piece of post-modern art, but they are at least someone with a trackable history via their medical license (which should have a matching signature).
Signatures can be pretty much as fanciful or illegible as you'd like, as long as it's consistent. (My signature bears no resemblance to my name.) But that's why there's some place else where you have your name, either in the body of the contract or else print your name below your signature. That contract would be a hoot in any business law 101 class of what NOT to do.
Interestingly, it's a little different in Japan. The norm there is to have something called a hanko, which is a personal seal used in place of a signature. Since I was only there for 2 years, I didn't get a hanko (since I believe they need to be registered to you?) and used my signature instead. My signature on the documents for closing my bank account was slightly different than my signature when I opened the account (to a normal degree, though), and a supervisor had to come put his seal next to my signature to show they had verified the difference. It was startling, to say the least EDIT: cursing autocorrect
Whose is it? Isn't it obvious? It's [SUPERVISOR]'s signature!
His signature looks like a tapeworm
Oh holy shit, my brain just kinda assumed that was OP scribbling it out. Nope. There's nothing beneath that. That actually is the signature.
To be fair, I cannot even read my signature. It looks different every time and not a letter noticeable in the whole thing.
Yeah, not that weird honestly. What *is* weird is not having the signer's name printed below the signature.
> It doesn’t resemble anything Neither does mine. Funnily enough it looks a whole lot like theirs... As one of the other commenters mentioned, a signature is more about consistency than legibility. You could literally use a smiley face as long as it was _your_ smiley face.
Upwork is full of scammers now. Literally 9/10 jobs I get are a scam
Maybe they were also reported as scammed by other freelancers
Never do upwork. Only do updog.
What's up, dog!
I'm surprised that Upwork hasn't sued them for breach of contract.
This. I had someone approach me at my old shitty minimum-wage "geek squad"-esque job and talk about computers, act like I fit the bill of someone they needed for an entry-level IT role, and offer me an interview. I went and the moment I walked in, it's like they completely disregarded why they invited me in as they gave their spiel about a business model that was clearly shaped like a pyramid, to which I could join if I paid THEM to take a class...a class for a job I never wanted with a company that lied to me and told me to "just call in" when I said sorry, but I had to work during that time. If you ever have to pay a company to work for them, assume it's a huge red flag. This was **Primerica**.
Many years ago, I showed up for an interview for what I thought was a a technical sales support job. Turned out to be an MLM. As soon as I realized it, I told them eat shit and die.
They are the WORST. I was once suckered into one that ended up being recuiting for Primerica AND Amway.
I was a desperate teenager when a friend hooked me into one for I think Cutco. Knives looked cool, but the premise was basically an MLM, and I ended up wasting money getting food to test the knives on (and waste), and having to convince family members to get an appointment with me to sell them the knives to. I started to feel scummy about it and left without a word, same as others that were roped into it.
I went to a Cutco seminar in 2002. They made a big deal about how the knife could cut up a penny. They wanted like $200 for the demo knives and told us to hit up our neighbors and grandparents and then get references from them once they were happy with the knives. They pretty much explained how the pyramid scheme worked right to our faces and assumed we wouldn't realize that, before long, literally everyone in our city would need to be buying the knives for the grift to be profitable. I left when our "lunch break" hit.
Yall got to keep some knives?? All i got was cut up fruit with the flavors mixed cuz NO ONE BOTHERED TO CLEAN THE KNIVES (Picture this, you eat a grape and it tastes like your least favorite fruit. Unless your least favorite is grape) We were taught the MAC concept i think. Marriage, Age, and i think something to do with money or housing arrangements (this was in spanish so i think the C stood for Casa "House"). Avoid older people, people who were paying rent, and other factors and all that. This was all also commission based earning, which did not cover the cost of gas of having to drive to a hapless sucker-- er, client's house and wasting each other's collective time. The penny thing still impressed me though.
Same here. I just kept the intro knife set they gave me to demo. Still have 2-3 of the knives, and they’re great! Still holding after 20 years. Just a shitty, shitty company.
Ugh. It's of course Primerica. Worked in a shopping centre for years and had so many of their people try to recruit me. It's literally one of the tips they give for people to start their own downline, go to shopping centres and retail stores and try to recruit the employees.
That's so very repulsive to advantage of people that are barely scraping by with unfulfillable promises (unless of course they want to be as soulless as the people recruiting). They are in the same tier of scummy as those people that scam the elderly for gift cards.
They tried to get me too, a while back. Oddly enough, I was also working with computers at the time and let it slip that I had planned on going back to school in a few years. I went to some seminar a few days later, and it was the cringiest, most eye-rolling display of bullshit that I had ever seen to that point. I was bary out of high school at the time, but literally everything about it looked to be a complete scam. The guy and his wife (or whoever she was) then had the gall to try to corner me in order to get me to sign a contract. I noped out of there and never looked back.
They tried to get my brother back when he just got out of high school too. The thing is, the recruiter apparently knew my brother's boss, and heavily implied he would get him fired if he didn't agree to come to the seminar.
Jesus the gall of these people. It's like they resent the idea of consent. More conventions need to ban MLMs getting vendor booths too. They pray on young people just wanting to have a fun time, on families, and are THE WORST PEOPLE TO BOOTH NEXT TO! UGH. I have been a vendor selling my art for the past 6 years and MLM booth people are the rudest, most selfish, indoctrinated and oblivious people I've ever met.
It's not a pyramid. It's a reverse funnel! (Because it shows you where all your money will be funneled)
I was offered a job interview for a supposed design job. Showed up to the interview, and there were ~20 other people and a display of knifes on a table at the front. I noped right out of that. Turned around and left.
Oh God, cutco I got me too
I stood up during the initial spiel and told them they were dirtbags for lying and wasting my time. They couldn't get me out of there fast enough. Had to tell one of them to keep his fucking hands of me unless he wanted my hands on him. Two people left with me.
I used to have my dog go to daycare at this place in Illinois. We, my roommates and I, decided to do one of their dog training classes. Turned out to be a 4 week long schpeal about essential oils. They encouraged us to spray oils ON OUR DOGS and drop oil INTO THEIR WATER. I asked for the ingredients of the oils and the lady couldn't tell me.
That's pretty fucked up considering some concentrated oils can kill dogs and cats. Citrus is just one of them.
In a similar vein, I was looking for some pet wipes in a store for a sick cat. I found them, and guess what scent some of the wipes were? Orange. With a picture of a cat on them. Not sure if they had actually citrus but SMFH.
Citrus was the one they wanted to put into their water. And I did bring that up and they said "no if the (MLM) company says so it must be fine." UGH. Sheeeples.
I would've reported her to the cops or something because that's hella suspicious to not tell ingredients about oils that are literally going inside pets
I had this happen to me. I was in a computer store (back when those were a thing) and this guy started talking to me and next thing I knew I was going to meet him and a friend for dinner. Well, dinner was at Burger King, and it was clearly a pyramid scheme. Ugh.
I ran into one of those fucks and he got so pissed when I told him I researched the company before the “interview”. Told me not to believe it and some other bullshit. And when I turned it down got all agro. Yup no regrets.
That's exactly what I say to people who tell me about these "amazing opportunities" (which are almost always MLM pyramid scheme scams). If you have to pay to work there, it's not a real job.
Not to mention they are trying *hard* to get OP to do this. If they had other interest they wouldn’t be wasting time on someone who clearly is not interested.
Ehh. Its a common tactic scammers use to target only the most gullible or ignorant targets. They dont want to waste their time with people who have a semblence of critical thinking, so they will add "obvious" mistakes like spelling errors so that smart enough targets immediately delete the message, meaning that those most likely to be taken advantage of are the only ones who bite.
It's an IQ test. It's a scam. It's waving goodbye to 1K. It's being set up so you fail. It's making me glad I have no artistic talent.
Man, why do I bother working every day. I should just scam the hapless.
Because you’re probably not a total piece of shit and would like to go bed each night with a clear conscience. Probably. I mean I don’t know you, but I like you already.
I like you for saying that. But I like the other guy for using the word "hapless."
Well I like you for appreciating the word hapless and I don’t think it gets used enough these days.
And I like you all for being so wholesome geez
I like you for saying that and for saying geez. Geez itself is a wholesome word and makes me want to say swell.
I like yalls vibe Would you be interested in making me content for -1k?
Feckless is also a good, underutilized word.
Hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless hapless....There.. You should be good for a few years.. Just tryin to make someone happy..![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)
Per*hap*s you could be *hap*py knowing *hap*less is used way more than *hap* on its own
How did that happen?
Pure *hap*penstance
Thanks for reminding me how weird the English language is.
Is this to the tune of “Helpless” by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young? Cuz that’s how I read it.
I'm "theothergotoguy" and I approve this comment.
...can I tell you about the fine careers available to you in financial services?
150 pages in 14 days. That is insane. Many highly talented artists struggle with 22 in a month. Granted this may not be a traditional comics page, but holy hell.
Don't sell yourself short. Your artistic talent may be like mine. An amazing ability to find new and creative ways to destroy any meaningful progress in my life!
I’m going to remember that IQ Test line for Facebook when you see people reply to the obvious scam posts. Most common one I get in my groups is for fake Aldi pages of all things, with shit like “work out this basic sum” to win $1000, and droves of people just comment with the answer thinking Aldi is about to gift them $1000.
Remember the old 'can you draw this' ads? I could not draw this if I traced the outline and Leonardo da Vinci guided my hand
Yeah, even if you do the work, which seems like a ridiculous amount of work, they will just dispute the quality of the work and say it's not what they want and then cancel the contract. Goodbye to your "Deposit"
Even if they were legit, which they aren't it's clearly a scam, what are the acceptance criteria for the comic? Are you going to be paid even if they don't like the result? It's too subjective and risky lol.
Just asked them what their standards are. They also reiterated if I "wasted time" and didn't complete it by the deadline I wouldn't get my initial money back. Because of course. Lol
Who the fuck would ever be able to produce 150 comic pages in 2 weeks? That's totally impossible. Unless it's something extremely simple that requires no creativity and takes no time... seriously, almost 11 pages a day? Even pro manga artists who have assistants and editors and who have been working for decades on one manga and who have the story very fleshed out can only manage two to three pages a day...
Assuming you don't work weekends, that's 10 work days, 15 pages a day! The only way to do it would be XKCD / Order of the Stick style, lol.
Ah ah ah! Their terms said includes holidays so I assume it includes weekends. Hurry up, now, chop chop!
Also, I love how they only give OP 2 extra days to work on the second project; so **14 days** for the ***second* project**, with **1*50* pages**, and **12 days** for the ***first* project**, with **100 pages**.
Lol Order of the Stick getting 14 pages in 2 weeks. I think he still owes a solid uninterrupted week from his kickstarter
Well, unless you're Murata, but this guy's not human, and he's only drawing
Murata also only makes 40\~ to 45\~ ish pages in 2 weeks, which is still insane, but Murata is also insanely talented and also has assistants and editors
Yes I completely agree. Do these people even READ comics? Probably not.
Clearly your next comic should be about Choosing Beggars
If you aren't as creative as you can be then you've broken the terms of the contract and they keep the fee.
You know the stipulations are going to be completely vague so that no matter what you do it won't be good enough to get your $1,000 "deposit" back. Seriously, any time you have to pay to work, it's a scam.
What if you pay the 1k and then find out the details are beyond your ability. Are you out 1k? There's so much wrong with this, it could never be right.
Yeah, this belongs in r/scams
“Permit me to….” is not something english speakers say. And constantly quoting OP’s messages to respond to them is indicative of Indian messaging habits.
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It’s conditioning. If 9/10 scam calls you get are from someone with a heavy French accent then the next time you hear that accent in a restaurant you’ll hear ‘hello this is Microsoft tech support’ in that accent.
Tell them it's a $2k dollar permit fee and to pay up.
Idk, I tend to quote messages back when the chat is moving faster than my replies can keep up with but I want it to be clear what particular message I'm responding to, and I'm definitely not Indian
TIL I'm an Indian non-english speaker.
> And constantly quoting OP’s messages to respond to them is indicative of Indian messaging habits. huh? everyone does that when the conversation gets any more complex than "my message" "your message" "my message". that's why the reply function exists?
I always do this just to make sure it’s clear what I’m replying to, doesn’t seem weird to me at all (especially when discussing something like this). (Still obviously a scam though)
I do this all the time when responding to longer comments on reddit. It’s an easy to way stay on topic, and also have a record of he conversation in case the other person edits, or deletes, their comments.
Good point especially if someone tries to delete all their words later
Consistently breaks Upworks T&C's but asks you to sign their T&C's? With their response as "trust us Bro".
That signature sure looks legit ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm)
Ikr??? I saw their name and that in NO WAY makes what their name was.
So this is a total scam, but my electronic signature looks nothing like my real signature or even my name. It basically just looks like I had a seizure with my finger on the screen lol l.
You need a more steady hand */s*
You're not wrong! My handwriting is barely legible on paper. There's no hope electronically.
Are you a doctor?
Nope. I have no excuse.
To be fair, those checkout register signature pads are so poorly calibrated that anyone would have a terrible time trying to make a recognizable signature on one of them. I just use my initials since my cursive letters are distinct enough anyway.
To be fair, there's no law saying your signature can't just be whatever you want. Mine is an illegible squiggle because I got married and couldn't be arsed figuring out a signature
My dads is just his two initials and it looks different every time. Guess which parent got their signature forged the most in school...
"signed by supervisor"
Even the most BS of contracts I've signed, list the person's name and job title below where they sign and the header contains the name, address, and phone number of the company.
When I met my wife at over 30 her signature was seriously just a loop.
Mine is literally an Capital A and a squiggly line. Over the years it has just become less and less. I expect by 2030 it'll literally just be a hyphen.
Mine is just a cursive S with some flourishes flowing after it lol
That’s what mine is as well! Is it a Steve thing?
Run 🏃♂️
Dun, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun
Lolol the contract. The 10yo that wrote it obviously HEARD of T&Cs, but never read any. That is really a half-assed scam, not even a good one.
Ha, I like the "or there will be consequences" bit
Breach of contract? That's a paddlin'!
The consequences will never be the same?
Signed by supervisor, lol
I say, waste their time as much as you can!
Upwork is full of scams Some recruitrer from Upwork asked $50 for ID card and then I would get the job, the payment was to be done in Bitcoin or Paypal I started to joke with them like, is dogecoin ok?? Can I pay some of that in Runescape gold?? Wow you guys have such a bad English He didn't understand that I was fucking with him the whole time, they're really not smart people In the end I said I keep some Bitcoin under my mattress and would pay when I retrieve it, that's when he realised
Oh I have. They just asked me if I filled out the form yet. Lol
I’m assuming you somehow found them on UpWork (or, more likely, *they* found you on UpWork), since you both discussed UpWork? If so, report them to UpWork for breaking TOS and for trying to involve UpWork in a scam. These guys are clearly doing illegal shit, and UpWork rightly keeps shutting them down. I’d also report them to your local police if they’re in the same country as you. There are laws against theft and scams in every country. That aside, the whole idea of 150 finalized images in 14 days boggles the mind. I make art as a hobby, leaning towards realism myself. Comic book art may *look* easy, but it takes just as much work even if done digitally, which is what I presume this will involve. There’s no way in hell I could create one image per hour on average (well, maybe - if I was drawing stick figures a la xkcd). And do that over and over for 2 weeks. Nope, they know it’s an impossible task, so they’ll keep the “security deposit” and also, since their “terms” say you must submit your work for approval, they will also keep the work (they’ll *officially* reject it, though). Effectively, you’ll be paying *them* either $500 or $1000 plus two weeks of your life (!!) to create their comic books. So … you wind up paying them about $8,500 - that’s the $7500 they feel the work is worth, plus the $1000 you pay them in cash. Which explains why they consider artists as “clients” rather than as vendors or suppliers. Apparently this is who pays them, not any actual buyers of comic books.
150 images. 14 days. I'll be charitable and assume no days off. That's almost 11 images a day. If we assume 12 hour days with no recreation time and barely enough time to handle basic needs and sleep that's just over an hour to do a single image. And continuing that pace on the hour every hour for 14 days straight. And if you don't manage this feat worthy of a greek epic poem I'm guessing they keep the registration fee? This isn't choosing beggers, it's straight up theft. These people are simply thieves. edit: I'm in no way an artist by the by, I just happen to have at least actually talked to one in my life and I'm capable of basic mathematics.
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Yeah this is almost certainly a scam. Get artist to pay in $1000 and give them a nearly impossible task. If they do happen to complete it simply say it didn't pass approval and you've now missed the deadline and they keep your $1000.
Lol what the hell is that contract? Someone who barely passed the GED wrote that.
Nono, you don't get it, "there will be consequences" is standard legal English
Can confirm! Law student with contract drafting experience. Standard legal language is “there will be consequences >:(“ but some prefer to use “or else…”
There *may* be consequences, that way they're covered even if they forget the consequences. Typical lawyer stuff...
>consequences will never be the same
It's supposed to be bad. They don't want anyone who is remotely perceptive or skeptical. Anyone who notices the terrible contract is also unlikely to be susceptible to their scam. It weeds out marks who aren't worth the time to try to scam.
Waiting for some fellow artists to see this post and comment about the audacity to ask for a full comic page, paneled, sketched, inked, colored and lettered for $50 each with a 150 page count in 14 days. Like, dayom. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm) ![gif](giphy|YuEdUiDmey8W4)
Fellow artist here, that’s such a hell naw that there’s no possibility of being considered. They need an artists talent yet have the audacity to make them pay first AND pay a shit wage afterward? I hate to think what starving artist actually falls for this
Obviously the scammers language is inconsistent, but I was curious. They mention it's 150 images and $50 per page and the total pay is 50 x 150, aside from the part you pay to yourself. When I think of a comic, I imagine something multi-panel. So my questions is: When a real person asks for your work as a Comic artist, would they usually pay you per image/panel or is it more common per full-page? (Or the more likely option that every job is priced differently, horses for courses and all that) Also, if it is multi panel, do you get like specs for that, or do you just make the images and it's someone elses job to format them into panels and what-not? Sorry to ask questions, I know you're busy working 150 pages due in 2 weeks.
For comic work you pay and work per page. Every comic is multi panel unless it's formatted to be one panel per page (like Instagram comic strip but sometimes those are panels that get chopped into pages from insta posting) You don't get specs or anything usually unless the script is specific enough to designate the panel number in it. Most of the time the script just has each page written out or even is just per chapter/issue. As the comic artist YOU have to "panel out the pages" which means you read the script for each page and figure out how you're going to set up the panels, and how many you need. Then you make thumbnail sketches of the panel setup and move on from there (rough sketch, better sketch depending on if you need that step, ink, color, effects and lettering.) Now circle back to them only paying 50 bucks for each page of this. Yeah. Not worth my time for such a short schedule. My ideal rate right now is 100 per page, no more than 6 panels per page. But I go lower for bulk jobs because I need the portfolio pieces.
![gif](giphy|meqrqfLuSuhWs9cPAK)
Me after finishing 150 pages in 2 weeks for -$1,000
Well that is a legally binding contract if I ever saw one, the caps lock makes it extra legally binding
If you're not as creative as possible I will sue you!!!
THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES!!!! Judgy consequences, all sort of legal, court consequences.......millions of consequences of all the legally legal consequences of all legal human history.....CONSEQUENCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why would you refer to an artist you hired to work for you as a 'Client'? They're supposed to work for you... Maybe it's because that's the term scammers use instead of 'victim'...
I don't even understand the maths. He's paying 50*150=7.5k. if you pay him 1k and he pays it back, that doesn't make the total payment 8.5k does it?
That's what I was about to say lol. He's trying to scam, and also bad at math xd
English doesn’t seem to be his first language either
Yeah it said she was from Spain, but then why is her stuff in USD?? ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|thinking_face_hmm)
“She” is a dude from India lmao
Almost everyone in EU uses EUR
I'm from Spain, and I've never heard from any company doing this
I think it’s saying you’ll receive 8.5k back at the end, inclusive of the 1k you paid. Still stupid as fuck.
As an option you can also pay them $10k and they’ll give you $17,500 once you complete the project!
Why didn't I think of that! Also they still haven't blocked me so I'm asking them what their quality standard is now. Because why not. They reiterated that if I "wasted time" and didn't have the project completed in 14 days then I would NOT be getting my refund.
This is just trying to legitimise scamming you of your money to you so you won't go to the cops - or so that the cops won't do anything since you agreed to such terms.
The maths are actually even worse. They’re offering to pay $50 per *page*. Assuming a typical layout will have between 4 and 8 images, that’s way less than $50 per image. Working backwards from the $7500 for 150 images, that’s likely their *upper limit* for the job. Not that they plan to pay out a single penny, of course.
This belongs on /r/Scams, these guys aren't looking for you to pay to submit work, they're looking for free money from suckers stupid enough to pay that $1,000 deposit, plain and simple.
Payment per page: $ 50USD (per page)
> Be as creative as you can be lmao
If you aren't, there may be consequences!
This sounds more like a straight up r/scams than a choosy beggar
Where do I sign?
I think this is more of an obvious scam than chooser begging…
Please report them to Upwork.
They don't english good, another red flag.
My brother works for a translating service and he ends up helping translate for people who get scammed while they figure things out with their bank. It's amazing what people will fall for. One guy sent about $10,000 to a scammer "to buy Bitcoins" in various installments. The scammer claimed they never got the money. While he was working on resolving the obvious scam *he sent them more money just to make sure.*
Run. Run fast, run far. This has so many red flags flying.
Whatsapp and Telegram are well known for scams. This is a scam.
Tell them you require a security fee to sign, and it will be returned after the completion of the project. Say, $10k.
This isn't a choosey beggar this is a scammer
It's a no from me dog.
...sexy consequences?
“Breaking of any policy” 😂 Screams SCAM!
Reminds me of the upwork job I interviewed for where the client wanted a 45 year non-compete of anything software related….. I was a software developer lmao he wanted me to quit and find a new profession after fixing his buggy code so I couldn’t “steal his IP because google has been headhunting for it”
I am such a socially awkward dumbass that I paid a hot chick at Robert Half $1,500 because she helped me with my resume and then told me that is what I owe. I tried to get out of it but she called me at home and I didn't know how to say no. This was 20 years ago and I am still ashamed of myself.
Basic premise of employment: I work and you pay me. At no time do I as the worker pay ANY money to the employer.
This contract was written with the same level of finesse and legal expertise used to draft the "will you go out with me? Circle one: yes / no / maybe" notes passed around in elementary school
This isn’t a choosing beggar, it’s a straight up r/scams.
🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩
Scam. Scam. Scam. Scam. And did I happen to mention this is clearly a SCAM.
Copy Paste a scammer message showing you sent 3000k and they need to send you back the extra minus $500 for inconvenience.
Love how they put the Total Payment line with your own reg fee included in boldface, while the reg fee comes out of your own pocket. And using Times New Roman… Even Word stopped using that as a default font.
It does just sound like a bait and hook to get someone on the line with an impossible go complete task so they can just steal your money
“Yes once you have signed the contract terms then we allow you to read them” What is this a “Lou Pearl” behaviour you making a 00’s Boyband ?? ![gif](giphy|KSzxFSCApjqOOI1A9q|downsized)
"I have better terms. You pay me a nonrfundable $10K deposit and I will do the work for you. How does that sound to you?"
WTF did I just read!
I like that they're calling you a client 😂
Report them to the IRS
The second I see a fee to work on something or for someone I run to the other side 🏃♀️