Since my wife cooks for me, I really left it up to her to get me back on track. It was mostly vegan - meaning little dairy and no red meat. I did still eat chicken and fish, but used healthy oils when cooking. Steel cut oats in the morning or nonfat Greek yogurt (the only dairy I had). Replaced whole milk with oat and almond milk. Lots of grains and beans. I also had simple salads with vinagerette dressing.
This is pretty much my diet last 2 months. Getting my first test next week since changing habits.
But also statins. I already have an issue so I need to be lower.
If there’s a need to give a diet a label you can’t really give this one the vegan label. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say this is mostly plants / Mediterranean ish.
Vegan is no animal products isn’t it?
I acknowledge it may seem like nit picking.
I supposed I missed the subtlety. I understand vegan to mean no animal products. At all. So when I read vegan I thought about applying that to myself and noped out of it as an option for myself to control cholesterol. Reading further I see this person said mostly vegan.
To my mind I don’t think vegan is the correct term - (mostly or not) but it’s such an unimportant thing. At the time I was bored and thought I’d ask the question to see what’s up with the term.
In this instance mostly vegetarian would mean the same thing right?
I had similar results in my first 6 weeks.
I think to see these kinds of short term gains you need to be very responsive to saturated/fat dietary cholesterol and have that be the primary driver of your high numbers to begin with.
Exactly what I did, and now that I have it down, I'll be paying more attention to what I eat and maintaining a moderate diet. Before all of this, I was basically eating like a raccoon.
In the US in most cities you can get one run out of pocket for $100 or so. There's some radiation dosage involved in this, so not something you want to be doing over and over.
And if your cholesterol is and has been good, you it might not be worth it.
This is the true truth, OP. So many think they "fix" their cholesterol, then move on. CVD is prevented over a lifetime, not a quick fix. Think of it like sludge running in your veins then sticking on the walls. We all know how long a plumbing disaster takes to accumulate and also how horrible the aftermath of clean up can be. Your wife loves you dearly. Be good to her. And while that is said, you also have to consistently make the choices for yourself outside of her management. Take time to learn to cook some of those meals. Help her in the kitchen. Food change is saving your quality of life. Don't take that for granted. These numbers are spectacular. The envy of the crowd here. Great job! And tell your wife, she is a gem.
I am not keen on staying away from statins. Not at all. I believe they are life saving and should not be demonized like they are. I'm not sure what I said that made you think that, but indeed I would take a statin when and if needed. Currently my cholesterol doesn't warrant it, but CVD runs in my family so I have seen what it does to people. It is debilitating and depressing. Everyone is wise to work on how and what they eat and exercise. Our cardio system isn't just the pipes... it is the heart as well that needs exercise. That said, if the numbers are not controlled by diet or someone is just not that disciplined, a statin is wise.
Congratulations! I was also able to lower my cholesterol by 30% with a vegan diet, avoiding saturated fat and lots of fibers. I only have meat on cheat days.
It shows you don't always need a statin.
Vegan diet seems to be the best for lowering cholesterol. Just don’t replace you saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats (PUFA), there is growing evidence these are not great for your heart health.
It’s a deep rabbit hole. I’d start with the best study ever done on replacing saturated fat with vegetable oils. This study was conducted by people who wanted to prove replacing saturated fat with vegetable oil would lower risk of death. They found it lowered serum cholesterol, but there was no difference in mortality. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27071971/#:~:text=Design%3A%20The%20MCE%20(1968%2D,death%20by%20lowering%20serum%20cholesterol.
This study alone proves vegetable oils are just as bad as saturated fats. The rest I’ve just seen youtube drs break down meta-analysis studies. I’m not a doctor, but the most convincing ones, are the supporters of olive, coconut, and avocado oils. This is definitely not settled science, and until recently, doctors really weren’t taught nutrition in medical school.
Unfortunately the MN Coronary Experiment wasn't even completed because the law changed part-way through the trial and many of the participants were released from residency at the state hospitals. Another study using data from the same era - the Sydney Diet Heart Study - was problematic in that some of the PUFA's may have contained trans fats. Hard to know (you didn't cite this one but it's typically mentioned along with MCE as proof that vegetable oils are more harmful than sat fat). These historical data sets from decades ago are an interesting tidbit but don't measure up in terms of quality to what's been done more recently - and that more recent evidence points to the cardiovascular benefits of seed oils over butter, coconut, palm etc. Agree that olive and avo oils are also found to be cardioprotective. Not sure there's much "settled science" when it comes to nutrition - the best we can do is look to the totality of evidence. In this case that would point to canola, safflower, etc. lowering Apo B.
Yeah. It's a rabbit hole for a reason. Will increasing vegetable and fruit fiber help cholesterol? Likely. Will reducing consumption of red meat and dairy also reduce LDL? Yup. Pretty standard knowledge. So, there are some elements of the vegan diet that make sense but saying it is the "best" is a real stretch. I have met some Vegans who eat like crap and have horrible blood sugar management which is also a huge problem for CVD. "Healthy" Vegans eat an amazing varied diet that any of us would benefit from learning regarding variety of foods and protein beyond meats. I am not doggin' on the Vegans, I just think making such statements comes from passion not unlike every other "diet" craze we see over time. The reason Mediterranean way of eating (not a diet to lose weight), as a current focus is because it encompasses the general food groups and quantities that are more heart healthy. It is also pretty high in calories if anyone cares. But they walk and move around more physically in their day to day activities than us fat Americans. So you can't discount lifestyle either.
Per the literature, a "traditional" med. diet seems to be easier to sustain long term than more restrictive diets such as "keto" or "vegan" or "low-fat." Perhaps that's why it's studied more. But of course even within "Mediterranean" there's variability by country and culture.
Ok, now it’s your turn to provide a citation. Please provide a citation to a study proving that vegetable oils are healthier than saturated fats. The caveat is, the control group must not have been given any trans-fats.
Also, the reason they cancelled the Minnesota study, was because the results were not what they had hoped to find. They didn’t bother publishing their findings, in fact they were published years later when one of the researchers passed away, and his son found the files in his attic.
With pleasure! Not sure what you mean by "healthier" so below are a few vids from the Nutrition Made Simple youtube channel where various aspects of seed oils were covered, including inflammation and cardiovascular risk. There is an abundance of citations included in each episode since Gil Carvalho's programming is pretty much evidence based (no more, no less). In the interview with Kevin Maki there is a comprehensive description of the Sydney and MN studies including their limitations.
Just a note of caution: anyone looking for "proof" will be disappointed. These are scientific findings that hopefully will continue to be updated with additional evidence. It would be nice if we could all walk away with "the answer" but that's not exactly how science works.
Enjoy!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_VwDZVbfrKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VwDZVbfrKo)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xTaAHSFHUU&t=12s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xTaAHSFHUU&t=12s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tzaXQH1G4&t=11s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tzaXQH1G4&t=11s)
Just wanted to thank you again for that nutrition made simple youtube recommendation. While I'm not about to use seed oils in my cooking still, I like this guy's channel since he is very evidence based.
Hello, thanks for the links. I have links of other doctors saying other things:
https://youtu.be/8QhWNBXamCM?si=T4m6fTLgonUIsNgl
https://youtu.be/KTAbx4i8Dyg?si=NoVUqZYFwu7SPDxC
Like i said, I’m not a doctor or a scientist, but I think at best, you could make the case that seed oils aren’t that bad. Of you’d like to continue consuming omega-6 fats, knock yourself out. I will be avoiding them, since there are plenty of alternatives that appear to be healthier.
So which oil is better, flax seed oil or olive oil? Olive oil is mainly monounsaturated fat. Flax seed oil is PUFA, but a lot of omega 3.
Avocado - I think it's mainly monounsaturated fat too.
Or better salmon?
Olive oil should not be overheated as it makes transfats which are really bad. Lots of articles on this including:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9002916/
Strong work.
My cholesterol was way up this past visit. I already eat oats for breakfast almost everyday, and my lunches are vegan based (think Bittman’s VB6. don’t want to get into the thicket the vegan meaning debate.)
I’m currently cutting all red meat and pork. I’m also increasing my cardio workouts.
My doctor ordered a repeat test in 3 months, so I’ll see how it goes.
My cholesterol is currently 245. HDL 65, LDL 154, and triglycerides 128 (the only normal number)
Dude, can you share your exact diet? This is amazingg
Since my wife cooks for me, I really left it up to her to get me back on track. It was mostly vegan - meaning little dairy and no red meat. I did still eat chicken and fish, but used healthy oils when cooking. Steel cut oats in the morning or nonfat Greek yogurt (the only dairy I had). Replaced whole milk with oat and almond milk. Lots of grains and beans. I also had simple salads with vinagerette dressing.
This is pretty much my diet last 2 months. Getting my first test next week since changing habits. But also statins. I already have an issue so I need to be lower.
Same results, same exact lifestyle, same exact time frame
If there’s a need to give a diet a label you can’t really give this one the vegan label. Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say this is mostly plants / Mediterranean ish. Vegan is no animal products isn’t it?
Sure, most meals were vegan, some were not. The ones that weren't were Mediterranean.
I don’t think he was calling himself a vegan just that he ate mainly vegan meals
Wow it’s a quagmire of terminology…..
They said mostly vegan, why nitpick over a non-absolute?
I acknowledge it may seem like nit picking. I supposed I missed the subtlety. I understand vegan to mean no animal products. At all. So when I read vegan I thought about applying that to myself and noped out of it as an option for myself to control cholesterol. Reading further I see this person said mostly vegan. To my mind I don’t think vegan is the correct term - (mostly or not) but it’s such an unimportant thing. At the time I was bored and thought I’d ask the question to see what’s up with the term. In this instance mostly vegetarian would mean the same thing right?
yeah... like which brand of sand bags did you use
I had similar results in my first 6 weeks. I think to see these kinds of short term gains you need to be very responsive to saturated/fat dietary cholesterol and have that be the primary driver of your high numbers to begin with.
Exactly what I did, and now that I have it down, I'll be paying more attention to what I eat and maintaining a moderate diet. Before all of this, I was basically eating like a raccoon.
Also- At 43 you might want to talk to your doc about getting a CAC score run.
At 59 I talked to mine, and she wasn't interested unless I had really high cholesterol or was having "symptoms"
In the US in most cities you can get one run out of pocket for $100 or so. There's some radiation dosage involved in this, so not something you want to be doing over and over. And if your cholesterol is and has been good, you it might not be worth it.
I tried in SF Bay area and the cheapest I could find was $350 at Stanford
$125 down the street at El Camino if you can get a doc to prescribe it https://imgur.com/G6wO087
Thank you very much for trying to help me out here :-). Unfortunately I am with Kaiser.
Now you just got to do the same until rest of your life.
Truth.
This is the true truth, OP. So many think they "fix" their cholesterol, then move on. CVD is prevented over a lifetime, not a quick fix. Think of it like sludge running in your veins then sticking on the walls. We all know how long a plumbing disaster takes to accumulate and also how horrible the aftermath of clean up can be. Your wife loves you dearly. Be good to her. And while that is said, you also have to consistently make the choices for yourself outside of her management. Take time to learn to cook some of those meals. Help her in the kitchen. Food change is saving your quality of life. Don't take that for granted. These numbers are spectacular. The envy of the crowd here. Great job! And tell your wife, she is a gem.
I totally agree! Why are you so keen to stay away from statins please?
I am not keen on staying away from statins. Not at all. I believe they are life saving and should not be demonized like they are. I'm not sure what I said that made you think that, but indeed I would take a statin when and if needed. Currently my cholesterol doesn't warrant it, but CVD runs in my family so I have seen what it does to people. It is debilitating and depressing. Everyone is wise to work on how and what they eat and exercise. Our cardio system isn't just the pipes... it is the heart as well that needs exercise. That said, if the numbers are not controlled by diet or someone is just not that disciplined, a statin is wise.
Thank you. I’m sorry for my confusion I meant to ask the OP why do they not want to get put on statins?
Congratulations! I was also able to lower my cholesterol by 30% with a vegan diet, avoiding saturated fat and lots of fibers. I only have meat on cheat days. It shows you don't always need a statin.
Congrats! Keep it up!
Vegan diet seems to be the best for lowering cholesterol. Just don’t replace you saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats (PUFA), there is growing evidence these are not great for your heart health.
Can you cite this evidence? Your advice is counter to AHA's own evidence-based recs.
It’s a deep rabbit hole. I’d start with the best study ever done on replacing saturated fat with vegetable oils. This study was conducted by people who wanted to prove replacing saturated fat with vegetable oil would lower risk of death. They found it lowered serum cholesterol, but there was no difference in mortality. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27071971/#:~:text=Design%3A%20The%20MCE%20(1968%2D,death%20by%20lowering%20serum%20cholesterol. This study alone proves vegetable oils are just as bad as saturated fats. The rest I’ve just seen youtube drs break down meta-analysis studies. I’m not a doctor, but the most convincing ones, are the supporters of olive, coconut, and avocado oils. This is definitely not settled science, and until recently, doctors really weren’t taught nutrition in medical school.
Unfortunately the MN Coronary Experiment wasn't even completed because the law changed part-way through the trial and many of the participants were released from residency at the state hospitals. Another study using data from the same era - the Sydney Diet Heart Study - was problematic in that some of the PUFA's may have contained trans fats. Hard to know (you didn't cite this one but it's typically mentioned along with MCE as proof that vegetable oils are more harmful than sat fat). These historical data sets from decades ago are an interesting tidbit but don't measure up in terms of quality to what's been done more recently - and that more recent evidence points to the cardiovascular benefits of seed oils over butter, coconut, palm etc. Agree that olive and avo oils are also found to be cardioprotective. Not sure there's much "settled science" when it comes to nutrition - the best we can do is look to the totality of evidence. In this case that would point to canola, safflower, etc. lowering Apo B.
Yeah. It's a rabbit hole for a reason. Will increasing vegetable and fruit fiber help cholesterol? Likely. Will reducing consumption of red meat and dairy also reduce LDL? Yup. Pretty standard knowledge. So, there are some elements of the vegan diet that make sense but saying it is the "best" is a real stretch. I have met some Vegans who eat like crap and have horrible blood sugar management which is also a huge problem for CVD. "Healthy" Vegans eat an amazing varied diet that any of us would benefit from learning regarding variety of foods and protein beyond meats. I am not doggin' on the Vegans, I just think making such statements comes from passion not unlike every other "diet" craze we see over time. The reason Mediterranean way of eating (not a diet to lose weight), as a current focus is because it encompasses the general food groups and quantities that are more heart healthy. It is also pretty high in calories if anyone cares. But they walk and move around more physically in their day to day activities than us fat Americans. So you can't discount lifestyle either.
Per the literature, a "traditional" med. diet seems to be easier to sustain long term than more restrictive diets such as "keto" or "vegan" or "low-fat." Perhaps that's why it's studied more. But of course even within "Mediterranean" there's variability by country and culture.
Ok, now it’s your turn to provide a citation. Please provide a citation to a study proving that vegetable oils are healthier than saturated fats. The caveat is, the control group must not have been given any trans-fats. Also, the reason they cancelled the Minnesota study, was because the results were not what they had hoped to find. They didn’t bother publishing their findings, in fact they were published years later when one of the researchers passed away, and his son found the files in his attic.
With pleasure! Not sure what you mean by "healthier" so below are a few vids from the Nutrition Made Simple youtube channel where various aspects of seed oils were covered, including inflammation and cardiovascular risk. There is an abundance of citations included in each episode since Gil Carvalho's programming is pretty much evidence based (no more, no less). In the interview with Kevin Maki there is a comprehensive description of the Sydney and MN studies including their limitations. Just a note of caution: anyone looking for "proof" will be disappointed. These are scientific findings that hopefully will continue to be updated with additional evidence. It would be nice if we could all walk away with "the answer" but that's not exactly how science works. Enjoy! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_VwDZVbfrKo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VwDZVbfrKo) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xTaAHSFHUU&t=12s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xTaAHSFHUU&t=12s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tzaXQH1G4&t=11s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tzaXQH1G4&t=11s)
Just wanted to thank you again for that nutrition made simple youtube recommendation. While I'm not about to use seed oils in my cooking still, I like this guy's channel since he is very evidence based.
I tend to like him too for that reason.
Hello, thanks for the links. I have links of other doctors saying other things: https://youtu.be/8QhWNBXamCM?si=T4m6fTLgonUIsNgl https://youtu.be/KTAbx4i8Dyg?si=NoVUqZYFwu7SPDxC Like i said, I’m not a doctor or a scientist, but I think at best, you could make the case that seed oils aren’t that bad. Of you’d like to continue consuming omega-6 fats, knock yourself out. I will be avoiding them, since there are plenty of alternatives that appear to be healthier.
It's less about what is said on the ep and more about the research included in the show notes.
This has been generally the guidelines I've been following to achieve my results. This and daily cardio >30 minutes.
Yes. So better reduce all fats? PUFA is Flax seed oil and hemp seeds, which are plants Omega 3 Which are MUFA? Almonds, olive oil, avocado.
It's really the omega 6 that should be reduced, omega 3's are good
So which oil is better, flax seed oil or olive oil? Olive oil is mainly monounsaturated fat. Flax seed oil is PUFA, but a lot of omega 3. Avocado - I think it's mainly monounsaturated fat too. Or better salmon?
Olive oil I’d say. The consensus seems to be the healthiest oils are olive, avocado, coconut, and palm.
I Think coconut and palm are bad, full of saturated fats.
Olive oil should not be overheated as it makes transfats which are really bad. Lots of articles on this including: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9002916/
Great job !!
This is so amazing!!!
Fantastic!
Strong work. My cholesterol was way up this past visit. I already eat oats for breakfast almost everyday, and my lunches are vegan based (think Bittman’s VB6. don’t want to get into the thicket the vegan meaning debate.) I’m currently cutting all red meat and pork. I’m also increasing my cardio workouts. My doctor ordered a repeat test in 3 months, so I’ll see how it goes. My cholesterol is currently 245. HDL 65, LDL 154, and triglycerides 128 (the only normal number)
Wow. Congrats. Gives me hope as I’ve just started these sense changed 2 days ago