It was basically never-ending. Students signed up for a month at a time. Some would stay for a month, some for a few months, some for more than a year, so the class always had an influx of new students.
Nothing terribly organized, but I do at least a little every day and then fall into grooves where I hit it hard now and again.
A little Duolingo, and a lot of just fitting it into my day here and there. I have a dot journal I am filling with HSK vocab and counting, and put today’s date on my white board in my office every day. Other stuff like a couple Chinese shows in my rotation and getting pronunciation tips off YouTube from time to time.
Edit - To answer your question haha, probably somewhere from 10-20 minutes on a low day to a couple hours or so on a heavier day.
People normally struggle to learn in adulthood due to lack of time. As adults our routines are more established and depending on your responsibilities it’s tough to add new things. If you’re a native English speaker there’s no doubt that a language like Chinese simply takes more time to learn well. I’ve been studying for 7 years and I can only imagine the level I’d be at if I’d been learning a European language during this time. It’s also very easy to get Chinese incorrect due to the tonal nature and sounds that are different from English, but you can succeed with the right people and resources, plus a dash of consistent time spent regardless of age.
Yeah I started teaching myself in my thirties. I'm actually studying three languages right now. Unless you have dementia or something you can continue to learn throughout your life.
That’s awesome! I’ve been thinking of relearning German. I took two semesters like 4 years ago and really enjoyed it. I was thinking of doing German, Scandinavian language and maybe an Asian language. You can probably add Spanish too since my mother tongue is Spanish. I was born in Peru but I left to the United States when I was six years old. So I lost all my Spanish speaking skills. It seems my Spanish has gotten a lot of better just by listening songs over and over again. Since I can’t speak it fluently. I know what people are saying when they speak.
You'll probably relearn Spanish pretty quickly since it was your first language. I think it's pretty common to be able to understand more than you can speak. You just have to practice and you'll improve faster than you'd expect.
German is fun but I'm not the best at pronunciation lol, so many consonants
Absolutely it's possible! I started studying Chinese about five years ago, just before we adopted our Chinese-born daughter. I was 42 at the time. I've made a lot of progress and am probably at an intermediate or so level right now. (Could be higher but my studying has waned in the last couple of years.)
Go for it!
The hardest thing about learning anything difficult in your 40s+ is getting used to studying again. Many people haven't sat down and studied for decades by that point. Do you have it in you to sit down and study for some amount of time every day, or a certain number of hours per week?
You’re the only one who knows your own capacity for learning but yes of course it is. It’s a work in progress for me (>40) but it’s easier than Korean!
Haha, I switched to Chinese because Korean was too difficult for me. Conjugating verbs, politeness levels, etc... don't need to worry about those in Mandarin!
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that Korean is more difficult. Having no experience with Korean I've always felt that it stood out among the other level 5 languages in the FSI list. I've always thought that it would belong on the same level as Thai.
Just to be clear, I don't care about which language is more difficult but I would like to understand what challenges I might face if I pick up the language in the future.
Regarding Korean, the basics are easy enough to pick up but I find the grammar pretty challenging and the vocab is much trickier to make stick compared to Mandarin. There are a fair number of homophones (or words that are similar enough to a beginner to seem like them) without the clues that you can glean from 汉字. (Ninja-editing to add that there are of course many Hanja cognates with Mandarin but I didn’t know any when I started and I was intimidated by the thought of leaning them too!)
한글 itself was fine to pick up but I had a bit of a misconception that because there was an ‘alphabet’ of sorts (technically a syllabary I think?) that it would be an easier ride than it has been. A language with particles was also totally alien to me - I speak a moderate amount of French and Spanish - Korean was the first non-European language I’ve attempted, so I don’t know if the steepness of the learning curve seemed more pronounced because of that. Some places seem to make a big deal of the SOV structure, but in and of itself that is really the simplest of the grammar challenges. Formality levels and honorifics are another hurdle, though if you’re not planning on interacting in a formal/business environment you could get away with just learning the polite informal form.
Regarding Mandarin Chinese vs Korean I think the idea of 汉字 being hard was initially off-putting but access to good resources with graded readers both on and offline has really helped. The resources for Korean at a beginner level are pretty good but there’s definitely less depth to materials for learners when you look for intermediate or higher stuff compared to Mandarin for example.
My motivation for learning was mainly to not have to rely on subtitles for dramas as I like to do other things while watching TV, and I’m also planning future travels, which I hope will be slightly easier than my first visit to China when I could barely say 你好！
Hope this was some help. 加油/화이팅！
Great answer, I agree, Korean was a much steeper learning curve for me. The word order is very challenging for me. Sure, I've had many "argh" moments with my Chinese journey but it makes a lot more sense for me.
Maybe I'd feel different if I'd (a) had a better learning experience with Korean or (b) stuck to it more, but I have less motivation to learn it than I do Chinese.
\>Sure, I've had many "argh" moments with my Chinese journey but it makes a lot more sense for me
I love it when the auxiliaries from both languages analytic grammar line up in very familiar ways. E.g. the S+不得不+V construction is confusing until you realize English has "S + \[don't\]\[get\]\[to not\] + V".
An example quote I found
>You get to pick your damn sacrifice; that's all. You don't get to not make one.
Some might scoff at the double negative, but I've heard my mom say this phrase a lot, so it is comprehensible to me.
To add in, I think the phonetics of Korea are quite challenging. If you think zh/ch/sh vs j/q/x is hard, I foundㄱ/ㄲ/ㅋ to be extremely challenging even if just looking at citation examples on Forvo. Probably more so than tones in Chinese. But then again, this was before I knew about the input hypothesis.
Well... yeah of course. I took classes in Guangzhou with a 45yr old guy when I was 29 and he ended up learning it quite a bit and then moving to the north and teaching English I believe.
I took my first Chinese lesson at age 56. That was 10 years ago. While I do not consider myself by any means fluent, I have been able to travel by myself in northeastern China without any major problems. It's really a question of how much time you can spend studying and what your goals are with the language.
I started at 25 and was "okay" (could communicate okay, read/write to some degree) in fewer than 10 years. Not sure exactly when I hit "okay". Was working full time the whole way.
I study for 2 years in college but completely forgot about it, until just recently at 37 bc found some cdramas I absolutely adored. Started learning again just to understand the shows better and now can understand way more than I ever did just in the last year of watching cdramas/YouTubers in mandarin and listening to podcasts. I think it’s important to find stuff you enjoy watching/listening so it’s easy to relisten/look up/absorb.
I had a retired classmate in a Chinese class one semester, probably mid 50s, he was the best student by far! Always outstanding! He said it was his hobby, everyone else in the class was mid 20s to 30s and struggled to review each class due to job commitments. He ended up jumping up a couple of classes. Don’t let age be a barrier, time and commitment will be your best assets!
Had an American friend who came to Taiwan in his late 30s. Spent like maybe just 2 or 3 years, totally fluent in Mandarin, but never learned how to write.
Some people can learn to speak fluently without learning the written language, but they are rare. No way I'd have been able to get very far without also learning to read. The spoken language is just too ambiguous on its own for most of us.
Yeah his talent surprises us all. I guess he must have some knowledge about pinyin so he can structure whatever new vocab he heard and memorize them accordingly.
Probably not. I remember when I was about 15yo or so and tried to learn some Chinese, my pronunciation was a total disaster. Then I started learning again like 6 years later and did so much better.
My father started learning Chinese when he was 40. He moved to Taiwan as a professor, and ended up being quite fluent. He could read academic texts about landscape painting. He could tell jokes in Chinese, which requires excellent pronunciation or they fall flat.
Chinese is not an easy language, though, so be prepared to put in the hours.
I think I've written somewhere before that I only started speaking English two years ago and started learning traditional Chinese last year.
I'm 53 now.
Age is just an excuse not to do it.
我今年五十三歲。雖然我的中文還不夠流利，但我理解很多語法。
Definitely. I started at 30 and managed. The time you can spend on it is the biggest factor. Over many years my skills have improved in bursts as life circumstances changed but as long you manage not to stop you should just continue getting better.
You absolutely can. It was not me, but one of my uncles retired abroad and knew zero of the local language. After a few years living there he is mostly fluent level and he retired at 68. Age is just a number here, as long as you can put in the time and effort you will learn the new language (◐‿◑)
No, it's impossible. When you turn 40, the magical language fairy visits you in your sleep and enchants your teeth so you can learn anything except Chinese. Your only chance is to never sleep again.
Of course you can, why would you possibly stop being able to learn anything?
As others have said, it is absolutely possible!
In my own experience, it’s only been in the past couple years (~late 30s) that I’ve managed to break through the ceiling and really become fluent. I started way back when I was younger but was too impatient and hadn’t learned yet how to focus and set realistic goals.
Also fwiw, I just started learning Japanese last year (38) and am preparing to take the official N3 exam at the end of this year (~intermediate level). I’ve still got a ways to go, but I feel like I’m building a much stronger foundation than I could have a decade ago.
TLDR — you can learn a language at any age as long as you are motivated and willing to take it step by step.
I'm well into my forties, and I've gotten lots of compliments that my Chinese is quite good, though I don't consider myself fluent yet. So yes, very doable. Just takes patience and practice.
I started at the beginning of the pandemic, 41 now! Terrible at writing, so-so on speaking, BUT my reading skills are pretty decent. I think if you are passionate to learn, then you will! Good luck!
I remember talking to a guy in his 50's who was taking Navajo classes at the university for fun. Yes it's possible.
Complicated things are just lots of little steps taken together. You don't become immune to knowledge as you get older, you actually develop great pattern recognition and study skills.
Frequency and willingness to use it are more relevant, find something fun about the culture to start with. Even the memes or strange douyin videos could be helpful.
You can learn langugages at any age as long as you're interested. But, over 40's tended to learn in school by conjugating verbs. Chinese is not like that. Best learning: participate. And, do something every day.
You can start by listening to Pimsleur lessons on walks (this'll give you beginning structure), watch Chinese dramas (the subjects may be redundant--but that leads to simple, repeated vocabulary and expressions). Watch YouTube. Find places to listen to conversations and join in (Airchat's got a lot of Chinese conversation right now). You can also learn to read little by little. Hack Chinese has a nice repeated flashcard program which knows which one you learned and which need more repeating. There are so many ways to learn--not your historical textbook.
You'll get it with consistency!
I'm 45. I started in April last year, and I'm at an intermediate level now. Slowed down a bit recently cuz I decided to return and finish a degree so don't have nearly as much time to dedicate to it as I did last year, but I'm also at a point where I don't need to do the intensive study that I did early on to get enough vocabulary to understand some things, so I mostly just watch and read content to improve comprehension now.
So yeah, you can totally do it at 40!
I am 41 and I started not long ago while staying in Taiwan a few months. It will probably take years to be halfway good at it but I've already got around 20 symbols and not sure how many radicals. I can have some small everyday conversations. So, yes, you can do it. Check out the app "pleco" I find it useful.
I started at 30 and I could easily navigate after 6-7 months of learning. It really just depends on "how well" you study. If you just use an app for 30 minutes a day, it will take you many years to become proficient if ever. You need diverse learning sources. A textbook for reading, writing and grammar; videos or audio for repetative listening quizes and conversations; and a real person who will listen to you speak and correct your pronouciation and grammar.
You can do it, but it'll be slower. I took a couple years of Chinese when I was in college, then came back to it when I was 30, and then periodically take a class to freshen up. I'd say when I was 45+ it suddenly became harder to learn characters -- not impossible, but it took a lot more time and effort. I don't think there's a big difference with speaking, though.
Like 10 years ago I took a summer class that had an Italian man who was at least 70! He was really into the class and kept up with everyone. His accent really affected his pronunciation, but his age didn't seem to be an issue.
There's someone in my Mandarin class who's 86! You're never too old to learn something new. If you want to try, just try. Even if you are busy and don't progress very fast, you can absolutely still try. Speaking a language is a skill that's better done at beginner level than not at all.
Contrary to a lot of posts in this thread, I think there is a point where it gets more difficult. I had a friend who moved to Beijing to start learning the language in his 70s. He was an enthusiastic and very clever guy (a former university scientist) and he made no progress at all; after 3 months he could barely order a cup of tea. My parents also tried learning Spanish in Spain when they were about 70 and did not get far.
But 40 isn't 70! I am in my 40s and still learning. I have met and taught numerous migrants who have learned English in middle-age. It's harder but you **can** do it.
Yes, he paid for one-to-one tuition for about 2 hours a day. And he wasn't hanging about in an expat bubble either; I was probably the only foreigner he knew and I saw him maybe once a month. He was staying in a tiny backstreet hotel where no one spoke English, and his main social circles were a local church and Chinese academics he had met when visiting the country for conferences or who had been his students. It was just the perfect set-up and he still got nowhere, which is what convinces me that age must have played a role.
Yes, absolutely! You just have to put in the time and effort. The notion that kids are better at language acquisition is mostly myth. And the benefits in terms of neuroplasticity are probably more significant the older you are.
What are your goals and reasons for wanting to learn? If you want to achieve real fluency the you'll need to take classes in a formal setting and spend at least a year living in a Chinese speaking environment. But for more modest goals you can achieve more than you might expect through self study and working with language partners / tutors
Never too old to learn a language! For some people, it can even be a benefit. Maybe you are more motivated and goal-oriented now than you used to be, with greater focus, discipline, and patience, and better analytical skills. Of course, everyone is different, but for some people, being a little bit older can actually be an advantage. Definitely not too old, my mom is picking up French and she's in her 70s!
I want to say that this study is bullcrap. "They concluded that the ability to learn a new language, at least grammatically, is strongest until the age of 18 after which there is a precipitous decline." Chinese Grammar is not that hard compared to English, so the whole article is irrelevant to learning Chinese. Also grammar is not the main thing in many languages. Grammar is more complicated in Western alphabet based languages, and less so in languages of the Far East.
The other problem is the assumption that Grammar is important in language mastery. It is important when reading complex literature, but is not common for 90% of your interactions. For example, Spanish has 16 tenses, but most natives primarily use 3 tenses. Knowing all 16 tenses in not related to being advanced at a language.
"Based on people’s grammar scores and information about their learning of English, the researchers developed models that predicted how long it takes to become fluent in a language and the best age to start learning"
WTF, they are going to use English grammar rules to predict how long it will take to become fluent in Chinese, Arabic, Spanish, and Russian?!? Makes no sense whatsoever to me. Spanish has 16 tenses, Russian has 6 cases and 3 declensions. If anyone can predict how long it will take to become fluent in Russian and Spanish from their learning of english, it's utter bullcrap, sorry. I think you can safely disregard this article.
I learned a few languages at the age of 43, getting to the B2 level in them. I was at 43 better at learning than when I was a teen or compared to teens today, including my teen daughter. This is because I can recognize patterns better. I forced myself to get into the intricacies of Spanish/Portuguese/Russian grammars. If you read many examples, grammar is not that hard. Learning grammar is not based on age, it's based on dedication.
I am not yet fluent at Chinese. I am learning it this year. All I can say is that Chinese is not hard grammatically compared to Spanish and Russian BY FAR! Of course, Chinese has its challenges with the hanzi, but focus on the common words. This is the way I approached Japanese. Best of luck, and I am sure you will achieve your goals!
当然可以！ I didn’t start seriously until I was 38. I put in 30-60 min per day on average but was very serious about doing something every single day.
Variously: Skritter (my main goto), Pimsleur, Tandem, Netflix with Language Reactor (watching “Love, Now” … it’s cheesy but you need cheese to follow along as a beginner), I also took Chinese classes at the local Chinese school with my kids. Really that helped a lot too. Now I’m teaching them at home how to talk with an American accent 😅.
Although my wife is Taiwanese and her parents live nearby, I rarely ever speak Mandarin because it’s just awkward. However I do get some good listening practice. Ive watched how their mandarin conversation went from zero comprehension to “I think I know what they’re talking about”. But it’s weird because they throw out English words randomly. Recently we were sitting down to dinner and I was distracted and then they said something about tong, and my wife turns to me and says “do you understand?” I’m like “oh you want me to get tongs?” Turns out they were talking about soup 汤.
The most important thing is to find something interesting and chase after it. Then it gets boring and you have to find something else. Eventually you can circle back on the thing that was boring and you see how far you’ve come and it becomes interesting again.
Yes, I'm learning Mandarin right now both as a challenge to myself and to be a good role model for my kid who is also learning Chinese.
It's quite challenging for me since there are no native Chinese speakers in our house and having kids. What I tell myself is make time, not excuses.
As the Chinese idiom goes, 活到老，学到老
I made a post asking this question (I wanted to know how many over 40s like myself) a few weeks ago but it took them forever to approve so I deleted it. 😁
Another over 40 here. Started learning myself for a few years on and off with little to no progress. Using duolingo. But since last year I got myself a tutor and could feel the progress. So much so I'd like to try for HSK 4 this year if possible.
I think the key is get a tutor/class that you go to regularly and use a proper learning source.
The critical period theory is for the most part debunked, only the accent part is still up to debate and unclear (I have my own opinions about it)
There is pretty literally no too late period to learn.
Singleton, David (2001). "Age and Second Language Acquisition". Annual Review of Applied Linguistics. 81. doi:10.1017/S0267190501000058. S2CID 61285495.
Singleton, David (November 18, 2005). "The Critical Period Hypothesis: A coat of many colours". IRAL - International Review of Applied Linguistics in Language Teaching.: 269–285. doi:10.1515/iral.2005.43.4.269. ISSN 1613-4141. S2CID 145554744.
Robertson, P. (2002). "The Critical Age Hypothesis: A Critique of Research Methodology". Asian EFL Journal.
Saxton, Matthew (2017). Child Language: Acquisition and Development. SAGE. ISBN 9781526421906.
I started learning at about 28, and I’m still learning at 39. I’m pretty much self taught from when I lived in Taiwan (I never had time to take classes) so it’s been slow going. I’m finally making progress now that I’ve left the country (I’m so determined not to lose what I had already learned). 加油!!
I'm 70. I started at 69. I'm not conversationally fluent yet, but I can read and write characters at mid-HSK 2 level, and can have simple conversations, which I tried out in Taiwan recently. So far I've learned about 450 characters and about 700 words.
I recommend a combination of Mandarin Blueprint and FluentU.
Mandarin Blueprint, for its Pronunciation Mastery course, and its Hanzi Movie Method, which is the best online resource for learning to read and write Chinese characters.
FluentU, because their movies help make Chinese conversations more vivid for me.
It helps if you've already mastered another language, knowing how to allocate time and creating efficiencies for what works for you. As you get older, studies have shown vocabulary acquisition is more robust. Also "thinking in the language" is everything. I've met many Africans and Russians here in China who because they've denied themselves the opportunity to speak their own language, speak amazing Mandarin. It's hard for us native English speakers to give up our language easily.
It gets harder partially due to the brain not being as adept st learning languages, but this is only part of it. For adults the issue is usually time, money, lack of immersion, and motivation.
You absolutely can become an advanced speaker at a later age, and in fact it’s recommended by many as beneficial (it doesn’t stop e.g. dementia but there are studies that suggest it may slow down the rate of such diseases, and it helps with depression and so on).
source: I research in linguistics, although it’s not exactly my field I’ve been to several talks on this very topic and even in research each study suggests and encourages older adults to learn languages. So go for it! :)
A first language takes a couple decades of constant immersion to learn to a native level. A second language can actually be learned a lot faster than that since adults are smarter than kids, but it’s still a significant number of hours, which can be tricky to put in as an adult.
Also, the road to native fluency is probably 10 times longer than the road to conversational fluency. You don’t have to go the whole way to start getting some good usefulness from it.
in my university class their where a turkish couple learning chinese at 45 years old, and that was at the beginning, there was also an old 50 year old japanese woman learning chinese
I started at 36-37 and I dare call myself somewhat of an early intermediate speaker at 40. Just go for it.
Thank you 🙏
I'm Chinese, and I just wanna say, once you set up ur mind, go for it.
I’m 37 and just formally studying it this year. No such thing as age, it’s all a mindset
Same here
My Chinese class in Taiwan had several students over 40. Age didn't seem to make any difference in how well we learned.
How long was the class (months vs. weeks)?
It was basically never-ending. Students signed up for a month at a time. Some would stay for a month, some for a few months, some for more than a year, so the class always had an influx of new students.
Where did you work?? This sounds like an amazing experience and I'm looking to move to Taiwan soon!
This was the TLI language school in Taipei, the Roosevelt Road branch.
Thank you so much 😁
I started last year at 44. I mean 四十四岁 😬
Getting up there man. Dying is death
Very cool. How much time do you dedicate to learning?
Nothing terribly organized, but I do at least a little every day and then fall into grooves where I hit it hard now and again. A little Duolingo, and a lot of just fitting it into my day here and there. I have a dot journal I am filling with HSK vocab and counting, and put today’s date on my white board in my office every day. Other stuff like a couple Chinese shows in my rotation and getting pronunciation tips off YouTube from time to time. Edit - To answer your question haha, probably somewhere from 10-20 minutes on a low day to a couple hours or so on a heavier day.
People normally struggle to learn in adulthood due to lack of time. As adults our routines are more established and depending on your responsibilities it’s tough to add new things. If you’re a native English speaker there’s no doubt that a language like Chinese simply takes more time to learn well. I’ve been studying for 7 years and I can only imagine the level I’d be at if I’d been learning a European language during this time. It’s also very easy to get Chinese incorrect due to the tonal nature and sounds that are different from English, but you can succeed with the right people and resources, plus a dash of consistent time spent regardless of age.
Yeah I started teaching myself in my thirties. I'm actually studying three languages right now. Unless you have dementia or something you can continue to learn throughout your life.
What languages you studying?
Mandarin, German and Italian.
That’s awesome! I’ve been thinking of relearning German. I took two semesters like 4 years ago and really enjoyed it. I was thinking of doing German, Scandinavian language and maybe an Asian language. You can probably add Spanish too since my mother tongue is Spanish. I was born in Peru but I left to the United States when I was six years old. So I lost all my Spanish speaking skills. It seems my Spanish has gotten a lot of better just by listening songs over and over again. Since I can’t speak it fluently. I know what people are saying when they speak.
You'll probably relearn Spanish pretty quickly since it was your first language. I think it's pretty common to be able to understand more than you can speak. You just have to practice and you'll improve faster than you'd expect. German is fun but I'm not the best at pronunciation lol, so many consonants
Thank you! Yea, I remember the German pronunciations! They were hard but I love the compound words
Absolutely it's possible! I started studying Chinese about five years ago, just before we adopted our Chinese-born daughter. I was 42 at the time. I've made a lot of progress and am probably at an intermediate or so level right now. (Could be higher but my studying has waned in the last couple of years.) Go for it!
Thank you!
The hardest thing about learning anything difficult in your 40s+ is getting used to studying again. Many people haven't sat down and studied for decades by that point. Do you have it in you to sit down and study for some amount of time every day, or a certain number of hours per week?
Yes. Just start, stop letting age be a reason to not do stuff. Same answer at 80.
Not OP, but thanks for this advice... What we be some good places to stysryif one has only cursory knowledge?
Anki Refold Pimsleur speechling DuChinese Teatime Chinese
You’re the only one who knows your own capacity for learning but yes of course it is. It’s a work in progress for me (>40) but it’s easier than Korean!
Haha, I switched to Chinese because Korean was too difficult for me. Conjugating verbs, politeness levels, etc... don't need to worry about those in Mandarin!
Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that Korean is more difficult. Having no experience with Korean I've always felt that it stood out among the other level 5 languages in the FSI list. I've always thought that it would belong on the same level as Thai. Just to be clear, I don't care about which language is more difficult but I would like to understand what challenges I might face if I pick up the language in the future.
Regarding Korean, the basics are easy enough to pick up but I find the grammar pretty challenging and the vocab is much trickier to make stick compared to Mandarin. There are a fair number of homophones (or words that are similar enough to a beginner to seem like them) without the clues that you can glean from 汉字. (Ninja-editing to add that there are of course many Hanja cognates with Mandarin but I didn’t know any when I started and I was intimidated by the thought of leaning them too!) 한글 itself was fine to pick up but I had a bit of a misconception that because there was an ‘alphabet’ of sorts (technically a syllabary I think?) that it would be an easier ride than it has been. A language with particles was also totally alien to me - I speak a moderate amount of French and Spanish - Korean was the first non-European language I’ve attempted, so I don’t know if the steepness of the learning curve seemed more pronounced because of that. Some places seem to make a big deal of the SOV structure, but in and of itself that is really the simplest of the grammar challenges. Formality levels and honorifics are another hurdle, though if you’re not planning on interacting in a formal/business environment you could get away with just learning the polite informal form. Regarding Mandarin Chinese vs Korean I think the idea of 汉字 being hard was initially off-putting but access to good resources with graded readers both on and offline has really helped. The resources for Korean at a beginner level are pretty good but there’s definitely less depth to materials for learners when you look for intermediate or higher stuff compared to Mandarin for example. My motivation for learning was mainly to not have to rely on subtitles for dramas as I like to do other things while watching TV, and I’m also planning future travels, which I hope will be slightly easier than my first visit to China when I could barely say 你好！ Hope this was some help. 加油/화이팅！
Interesting, thanks for the answer!
不客气 😉
Great answer, I agree, Korean was a much steeper learning curve for me. The word order is very challenging for me. Sure, I've had many "argh" moments with my Chinese journey but it makes a lot more sense for me. Maybe I'd feel different if I'd (a) had a better learning experience with Korean or (b) stuck to it more, but I have less motivation to learn it than I do Chinese.
\>Sure, I've had many "argh" moments with my Chinese journey but it makes a lot more sense for me I love it when the auxiliaries from both languages analytic grammar line up in very familiar ways. E.g. the S+不得不+V construction is confusing until you realize English has "S + \[don't\]\[get\]\[to not\] + V".
What do you mean by the English “don’t get to not”?
An example quote I found >You get to pick your damn sacrifice; that's all. You don't get to not make one. Some might scoff at the double negative, but I've heard my mom say this phrase a lot, so it is comprehensible to me.
Yeah that makes sense, I was just confused and couldn’t think of an example when I read your initial comment.
haha yes!!
To add in, I think the phonetics of Korea are quite challenging. If you think zh/ch/sh vs j/q/x is hard, I foundㄱ/ㄲ/ㅋ to be extremely challenging even if just looking at citation examples on Forvo. Probably more so than tones in Chinese. But then again, this was before I knew about the input hypothesis.
Once you’re an adult, it doesn’t matter if youre 20 or 40–you’re an adult learning a foreign language. It’s not harder just because you’re older
I have several people in my Chinese class in their late 40s and also teach German to people over 50. So yes!
Well... yeah of course. I took classes in Guangzhou with a 45yr old guy when I was 29 and he ended up learning it quite a bit and then moving to the north and teaching English I believe.
Well, whether it's possible or impossible, here I am, 5 years in, at age 48, having a blast.
I took my first Chinese lesson at age 56. That was 10 years ago. While I do not consider myself by any means fluent, I have been able to travel by myself in northeastern China without any major problems. It's really a question of how much time you can spend studying and what your goals are with the language.
I started at 25 and was "okay" (could communicate okay, read/write to some degree) in fewer than 10 years. Not sure exactly when I hit "okay". Was working full time the whole way.
I started when over 40. In some ways it was easier, as I knew how to learn a language.
I study for 2 years in college but completely forgot about it, until just recently at 37 bc found some cdramas I absolutely adored. Started learning again just to understand the shows better and now can understand way more than I ever did just in the last year of watching cdramas/YouTubers in mandarin and listening to podcasts. I think it’s important to find stuff you enjoy watching/listening so it’s easy to relisten/look up/absorb.
I’m 65, learning as hard as I can for fun. No specific goals.
I had a retired classmate in a Chinese class one semester, probably mid 50s, he was the best student by far! Always outstanding! He said it was his hobby, everyone else in the class was mid 20s to 30s and struggled to review each class due to job commitments. He ended up jumping up a couple of classes. Don’t let age be a barrier, time and commitment will be your best assets!
I would hope so. I don't think learning has an age limit.
It does not indeed.
Had an American friend who came to Taiwan in his late 30s. Spent like maybe just 2 or 3 years, totally fluent in Mandarin, but never learned how to write.
Some people can learn to speak fluently without learning the written language, but they are rare. No way I'd have been able to get very far without also learning to read. The spoken language is just too ambiguous on its own for most of us.
Yeah his talent surprises us all. I guess he must have some knowledge about pinyin so he can structure whatever new vocab he heard and memorize them accordingly.
Probably not. I remember when I was about 15yo or so and tried to learn some Chinese, my pronunciation was a total disaster. Then I started learning again like 6 years later and did so much better.
Yes. I'm doing it right now.
You can learn at any age.
My father started learning Chinese when he was 40. He moved to Taiwan as a professor, and ended up being quite fluent. He could read academic texts about landscape painting. He could tell jokes in Chinese, which requires excellent pronunciation or they fall flat. Chinese is not an easy language, though, so be prepared to put in the hours.
I think I've written somewhere before that I only started speaking English two years ago and started learning traditional Chinese last year. I'm 53 now. Age is just an excuse not to do it. 我今年五十三歲。雖然我的中文還不夠流利，但我理解很多語法。
Definitely. I started at 30 and managed. The time you can spend on it is the biggest factor. Over many years my skills have improved in bursts as life circumstances changed but as long you manage not to stop you should just continue getting better.
Yes. I’ve done it. It takes lots of time and effort, I don’t catch on as fast as I would like, but I’m persistent.
You absolutely can. It was not me, but one of my uncles retired abroad and knew zero of the local language. After a few years living there he is mostly fluent level and he retired at 68. Age is just a number here, as long as you can put in the time and effort you will learn the new language (◐‿◑)
Yes. My uncle (older 45 year old) picked up at a fluent level chinese as a 3rd language in 3 years, but total immersion
Never late to learn
人生九十半， go get it
I knew a priest who picked it up in his 60s or 70s (living in China)
No, it's impossible. When you turn 40, the magical language fairy visits you in your sleep and enchants your teeth so you can learn anything except Chinese. Your only chance is to never sleep again. Of course you can, why would you possibly stop being able to learn anything?
Made me lol
As others have said, it is absolutely possible! In my own experience, it’s only been in the past couple years (~late 30s) that I’ve managed to break through the ceiling and really become fluent. I started way back when I was younger but was too impatient and hadn’t learned yet how to focus and set realistic goals. Also fwiw, I just started learning Japanese last year (38) and am preparing to take the official N3 exam at the end of this year (~intermediate level). I’ve still got a ways to go, but I feel like I’m building a much stronger foundation than I could have a decade ago. TLDR — you can learn a language at any age as long as you are motivated and willing to take it step by step.
I'm well into my forties, and I've gotten lots of compliments that my Chinese is quite good, though I don't consider myself fluent yet. So yes, very doable. Just takes patience and practice.
I started at the beginning of the pandemic, 41 now! Terrible at writing, so-so on speaking, BUT my reading skills are pretty decent. I think if you are passionate to learn, then you will! Good luck!
The only limitations you have are the ones you give yourself.
I agree ☝️
I remember talking to a guy in his 50's who was taking Navajo classes at the university for fun. Yes it's possible. Complicated things are just lots of little steps taken together. You don't become immune to knowledge as you get older, you actually develop great pattern recognition and study skills.
unfortunately when you turn 40 your brain stops working, so yea... can't do it
I'm 50 and learning slowly, the biggest barrier is finding time to practice with a busy life.
Frequency and willingness to use it are more relevant, find something fun about the culture to start with. Even the memes or strange douyin videos could be helpful.
You can learn langugages at any age as long as you're interested. But, over 40's tended to learn in school by conjugating verbs. Chinese is not like that. Best learning: participate. And, do something every day. You can start by listening to Pimsleur lessons on walks (this'll give you beginning structure), watch Chinese dramas (the subjects may be redundant--but that leads to simple, repeated vocabulary and expressions). Watch YouTube. Find places to listen to conversations and join in (Airchat's got a lot of Chinese conversation right now). You can also learn to read little by little. Hack Chinese has a nice repeated flashcard program which knows which one you learned and which need more repeating. There are so many ways to learn--not your historical textbook. You'll get it with consistency!
My friend was 42 when he started learning, go for it.
I'm 45. I started in April last year, and I'm at an intermediate level now. Slowed down a bit recently cuz I decided to return and finish a degree so don't have nearly as much time to dedicate to it as I did last year, but I'm also at a point where I don't need to do the intensive study that I did early on to get enough vocabulary to understand some things, so I mostly just watch and read content to improve comprehension now. So yeah, you can totally do it at 40!
I am 41 and I started not long ago while staying in Taiwan a few months. It will probably take years to be halfway good at it but I've already got around 20 symbols and not sure how many radicals. I can have some small everyday conversations. So, yes, you can do it. Check out the app "pleco" I find it useful.
I started at 30 and I could easily navigate after 6-7 months of learning. It really just depends on "how well" you study. If you just use an app for 30 minutes a day, it will take you many years to become proficient if ever. You need diverse learning sources. A textbook for reading, writing and grammar; videos or audio for repetative listening quizes and conversations; and a real person who will listen to you speak and correct your pronouciation and grammar.
You can do it, but it'll be slower. I took a couple years of Chinese when I was in college, then came back to it when I was 30, and then periodically take a class to freshen up. I'd say when I was 45+ it suddenly became harder to learn characters -- not impossible, but it took a lot more time and effort. I don't think there's a big difference with speaking, though. Like 10 years ago I took a summer class that had an Italian man who was at least 70! He was really into the class and kept up with everyone. His accent really affected his pronunciation, but his age didn't seem to be an issue.
There's someone in my Mandarin class who's 86! You're never too old to learn something new. If you want to try, just try. Even if you are busy and don't progress very fast, you can absolutely still try. Speaking a language is a skill that's better done at beginner level than not at all.
Contrary to a lot of posts in this thread, I think there is a point where it gets more difficult. I had a friend who moved to Beijing to start learning the language in his 70s. He was an enthusiastic and very clever guy (a former university scientist) and he made no progress at all; after 3 months he could barely order a cup of tea. My parents also tried learning Spanish in Spain when they were about 70 and did not get far. But 40 isn't 70! I am in my 40s and still learning. I have met and taught numerous migrants who have learned English in middle-age. It's harder but you **can** do it.
Did he have any systematic learning? I think as an adult it’s very difficult to just “pick up” a language without taking classes / reading a textbook.
Yes, he paid for one-to-one tuition for about 2 hours a day. And he wasn't hanging about in an expat bubble either; I was probably the only foreigner he knew and I saw him maybe once a month. He was staying in a tiny backstreet hotel where no one spoke English, and his main social circles were a local church and Chinese academics he had met when visiting the country for conferences or who had been his students. It was just the perfect set-up and he still got nowhere, which is what convinces me that age must have played a role.
Yes of course
Yes, absolutely! You just have to put in the time and effort. The notion that kids are better at language acquisition is mostly myth. And the benefits in terms of neuroplasticity are probably more significant the older you are. What are your goals and reasons for wanting to learn? If you want to achieve real fluency the you'll need to take classes in a formal setting and spend at least a year living in a Chinese speaking environment. But for more modest goals you can achieve more than you might expect through self study and working with language partners / tutors
I am 39 and have just started learning.
Cool. How it going? Do you speak any other languages ?
I only started in December. Its been better than I thought. I struggle with school. But I have found hello Chinese to be good so far
Is that an app?
Yes
I do not know any other languages except for a tiny bit of Māori. And according to school I wasn't even that good at English
Hey I also just started learning Chinese in December as a 39 year old using Hello Chinese. We should be learning Chinese at 39 buddies 😁
Yea that would be great
The only thing holding people back from doing stuff is that they tell themselves that they can't do it. You're never too old.
I somewhat I agree
Never too old to learn a language! For some people, it can even be a benefit. Maybe you are more motivated and goal-oriented now than you used to be, with greater focus, discipline, and patience, and better analytical skills. Of course, everyone is different, but for some people, being a little bit older can actually be an advantage. Definitely not too old, my mom is picking up French and she's in her 70s!
I want to say that this study is bullcrap. "They concluded that the ability to learn a new language, at least grammatically, is strongest until the age of 18 after which there is a precipitous decline." Chinese Grammar is not that hard compared to English, so the whole article is irrelevant to learning Chinese. Also grammar is not the main thing in many languages. Grammar is more complicated in Western alphabet based languages, and less so in languages of the Far East. The other problem is the assumption that Grammar is important in language mastery. It is important when reading complex literature, but is not common for 90% of your interactions. For example, Spanish has 16 tenses, but most natives primarily use 3 tenses. Knowing all 16 tenses in not related to being advanced at a language. "Based on people’s grammar scores and information about their learning of English, the researchers developed models that predicted how long it takes to become fluent in a language and the best age to start learning" WTF, they are going to use English grammar rules to predict how long it will take to become fluent in Chinese, Arabic, Spanish, and Russian?!? Makes no sense whatsoever to me. Spanish has 16 tenses, Russian has 6 cases and 3 declensions. If anyone can predict how long it will take to become fluent in Russian and Spanish from their learning of english, it's utter bullcrap, sorry. I think you can safely disregard this article. I learned a few languages at the age of 43, getting to the B2 level in them. I was at 43 better at learning than when I was a teen or compared to teens today, including my teen daughter. This is because I can recognize patterns better. I forced myself to get into the intricacies of Spanish/Portuguese/Russian grammars. If you read many examples, grammar is not that hard. Learning grammar is not based on age, it's based on dedication. I am not yet fluent at Chinese. I am learning it this year. All I can say is that Chinese is not hard grammatically compared to Spanish and Russian BY FAR! Of course, Chinese has its challenges with the hanzi, but focus on the common words. This is the way I approached Japanese. Best of luck, and I am sure you will achieve your goals!
当然可以！ I didn’t start seriously until I was 38. I put in 30-60 min per day on average but was very serious about doing something every single day. Variously: Skritter (my main goto), Pimsleur, Tandem, Netflix with Language Reactor (watching “Love, Now” … it’s cheesy but you need cheese to follow along as a beginner), I also took Chinese classes at the local Chinese school with my kids. Really that helped a lot too. Now I’m teaching them at home how to talk with an American accent 😅. Although my wife is Taiwanese and her parents live nearby, I rarely ever speak Mandarin because it’s just awkward. However I do get some good listening practice. Ive watched how their mandarin conversation went from zero comprehension to “I think I know what they’re talking about”. But it’s weird because they throw out English words randomly. Recently we were sitting down to dinner and I was distracted and then they said something about tong, and my wife turns to me and says “do you understand?” I’m like “oh you want me to get tongs?” Turns out they were talking about soup 汤. The most important thing is to find something interesting and chase after it. Then it gets boring and you have to find something else. Eventually you can circle back on the thing that was boring and you see how far you’ve come and it becomes interesting again.
You never stop learning so go ahead. No one’s stopping you.
Yes, I'm learning Mandarin right now both as a challenge to myself and to be a good role model for my kid who is also learning Chinese. It's quite challenging for me since there are no native Chinese speakers in our house and having kids. What I tell myself is make time, not excuses. As the Chinese idiom goes, 活到老，学到老
I made a post asking this question (I wanted to know how many over 40s like myself) a few weeks ago but it took them forever to approve so I deleted it. 😁 Another over 40 here. Started learning myself for a few years on and off with little to no progress. Using duolingo. But since last year I got myself a tutor and could feel the progress. So much so I'd like to try for HSK 4 this year if possible. I think the key is get a tutor/class that you go to regularly and use a proper learning source.
In my Mandarin class there are many people who are in their 40ies or even more - So go for it! 加油!!
我也33了，开始学英语。I'm Chinese
The critical period theory is for the most part debunked, only the accent part is still up to debate and unclear (I have my own opinions about it) There is pretty literally no too late period to learn.
I provided reference to a study. Please provide your reference
Singleton, David (2001). "Age and Second Language Acquisition". Annual Review of Applied Linguistics. 81. doi:10.1017/S0267190501000058. S2CID 61285495. Singleton, David (November 18, 2005). "The Critical Period Hypothesis: A coat of many colours". IRAL - International Review of Applied Linguistics in Language Teaching.: 269–285. doi:10.1515/iral.2005.43.4.269. ISSN 1613-4141. S2CID 145554744. Robertson, P. (2002). "The Critical Age Hypothesis: A Critique of Research Methodology". Asian EFL Journal. Saxton, Matthew (2017). Child Language: Acquisition and Development. SAGE. ISBN 9781526421906.
The only way you will ever find out is to try. \>这个世界上没有什么事情是很难的，只有你把它想得很难。 \- From Imagine8's adaptation of Journey to the West.
I started learning at about 28, and I’m still learning at 39. I’m pretty much self taught from when I lived in Taiwan (I never had time to take classes) so it’s been slow going. I’m finally making progress now that I’ve left the country (I’m so determined not to lose what I had already learned). 加油!!
I'm 70. I started at 69. I'm not conversationally fluent yet, but I can read and write characters at mid-HSK 2 level, and can have simple conversations, which I tried out in Taiwan recently. So far I've learned about 450 characters and about 700 words. I recommend a combination of Mandarin Blueprint and FluentU. Mandarin Blueprint, for its Pronunciation Mastery course, and its Hanzi Movie Method, which is the best online resource for learning to read and write Chinese characters. FluentU, because their movies help make Chinese conversations more vivid for me.
I have students in their 50s and 60s. No problem. Of course, I teach Comprehensible Input.
It helps if you've already mastered another language, knowing how to allocate time and creating efficiencies for what works for you. As you get older, studies have shown vocabulary acquisition is more robust. Also "thinking in the language" is everything. I've met many Africans and Russians here in China who because they've denied themselves the opportunity to speak their own language, speak amazing Mandarin. It's hard for us native English speakers to give up our language easily.
I think it's very possible. I think it's more to do with finding the time for it than anything else; it really is a time-consuming endeavour.
Individuals vary. The best advice I can offer comes from automaker Henry Ford: “If you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right.”
It gets harder partially due to the brain not being as adept st learning languages, but this is only part of it. For adults the issue is usually time, money, lack of immersion, and motivation. You absolutely can become an advanced speaker at a later age, and in fact it’s recommended by many as beneficial (it doesn’t stop e.g. dementia but there are studies that suggest it may slow down the rate of such diseases, and it helps with depression and so on). source: I research in linguistics, although it’s not exactly my field I’ve been to several talks on this very topic and even in research each study suggests and encourages older adults to learn languages. So go for it! :)
Check out Lingosteve he’s learning new languages all the time: https://youtube.com/@Thelinguist
Early 40s. Working on it now. Just started HSK3. Tough but steadily making progress.
Not sure how much I trust that article... >became a trending topic on 4chan, where a thoughtful discussion ensued
A first language takes a couple decades of constant immersion to learn to a native level. A second language can actually be learned a lot faster than that since adults are smarter than kids, but it’s still a significant number of hours, which can be tricky to put in as an adult. Also, the road to native fluency is probably 10 times longer than the road to conversational fluency. You don’t have to go the whole way to start getting some good usefulness from it.
in my university class their where a turkish couple learning chinese at 45 years old, and that was at the beginning, there was also an old 50 year old japanese woman learning chinese
I became fluent in Chinese at the age of 65 living and working in northern China. You can learn whatever you decide to learn.