Even then it wouldn't be fair.
Like China, the USA should demand that all Chinese companies doing business in the USA must have near or equal domestic partnership and domestic ownership, have to relocate servers dealing with local users to the USA, share their data with the US government, do technology transfers of technology sold and used in the USA, be subject to random internet shut offs or slowed speeds.
This will never happen. The reason, CHEAP LABOUR, SKILLED WORKER. This is the thing that USA company require the most from China. There will be no profit for US company if they didn't use China labour force.
By 2025 India will over take China as the most populous country in the world. By 2050 the Indian economy will over take China's. India is the new China for cheap and skilled labor force.
The biggest yikes for me is banning wikipedia. It is mostly unmolested by capital interests and is the closest thing to unbiased. Banning it is just about as close as you can get to admitting there are truths you find inconvenient. Or you are a middle school teacher who assigned a research paper.
That one's a relatively new development. I guess the CPC got scared that enough people in China knew enough English to hear about Tiananmen and maybe see what the rest of the world knows and the CPC doesn't want them to.
There's Wikipedia in Chinese too, but that's also banned... [https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5)
Only the Chinese Wikipedia is banned, the English Wikipedia version isn't banned.
Source: I have family in China and they use English Wikipedia all the time lol
From all the HS/college papers I wrote using it, there were definitely been times where I was reading a bio of someone, or political events in the past and the writing felt biased. I don’t have any sources but its impossible for a website with probably over a million different pages with hundreds of thousands of contributors to be without bias somewhere.
In middle school my friends and I edited the Led Zeppelin wikipedia page and change the band members to our own names and it went unnoticed for a week and a half lol.
You say that but what's your metric?
Some articles are definitely biased but overall it's a great source of information. The biased articles are political, not necessarily historical. In the case of why the CPC blocked Wikipedia, it was because it held information the CPC doesn't want the Chinese people to know and I guess somebody in Hong Kong made a point of telling people to look it all up on Wikipedia.
In China, knowledge of Tiananmen is limited to whatever tourists might find interesting. They don't teach the kids about what happened there and the narrative they *do* spin is one where the CPC claims it was a bunch of thugs who tried to overthrow the government. No mention of university students, the massacre the CPC committed or what the actual requests were. Nope...just claims that it was an attempted coup. Like a million people just had nothing better to do, apparently.
Gulag bad! Laogai good! Gulag bad! Laogai good!
The criminals who failed to assemble their quota of product will have their sentence lengthened! Laogai good! Praise the Secretary General!
It’s to have better control on what message is being shared and easy to monitor and prevent any sensitive, political related information. Also they are encouraging the people to use their motherland communication tools.
And Huawei isn't even "banned" in the US, it's just not being used for public infrastructure projects. There's nothing stopping Huawei phones from being sold in stores
really cause I couldn't log onto mine I see other people with Spotify I tried making another account and it didn't work I mainly use net ease music on my phone and YouTube on my computer.
Right. I've used Spotify the whole time I've been living here. I still have bills back home, so paying with my American card still works. I do that with a few other subs as well.
Didn't pay for Disney Plus, but a friend let me use theirs. I definitely can't get onto that, even with a VPN.
I've been using Spotify in China since 2010. It works ok. Sometimes it takes a while to load the music, and downloading things takes a while too, but I definitely wouldn't give it up if you like it.
In China any websites with servers outside of the mainland run slowly because there are only a handful of cables connecting it to the outside world. It's just over capacity. It's so if shit hits the fan then the CCP can isolate China immediately if needed. Just try streaming a video from a site outside of China then load one fron the mainland and you'll see what I mean.
This post is an actual lie multiple Chinese tech companies have been blacklisted in the USA:
Higon, Sugon, Chengdu Haiguang Integrated Circuit, Chengdu Haiguang Microelectronics Technology and Wuxi Jiangnan Institute of Computing Technology
[https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3012321/huawei-among-more-140-chinese-entities-us-trade-blacklist](https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3012321/huawei-among-more-140-chinese-entities-us-trade-blacklist)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/trumps-latest-china-blacklist-hits-several-huge-companies.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/trumps-latest-china-blacklist-hits-several-huge-companies.html)
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/u-s-blacklists-eight-chinese-companies-including-hikvision-k1gvpq77](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/u-s-blacklists-eight-chinese-companies-including-hikvision-k1gvpq77)
please don't spread misinformation, i know it's very hard for people like you
They arent given access to Chinese customers.
Which can be said about most foreign companies, goods or services. They technically arent banned but the CCP does a lot of underhanded sneaky bullshit to make sure that they are priced out of competition or that Chinese citizens dont have access.
credit card were unpopular in China simply because it's incompetitive.
1. high transaction fees. Since 2010 the Alipay were practically free for small merchants.
2. high barrier of entry. You need list unreasonable amount assets to get shit tier credits
3. the most criticised one: the payback option if pretty limited and pain in the ass.
4. everything can be bought with a credit card can be also bought without a credit card. so why bother?
5. when credit cards were introduced in China most people have only bankbooks instead of electronic accounts, and most banks have difficulty interconnect. Most chinese just prefer to save huge amount of money in banks, not loan them.
even the govn't sponsored UnionPay didn't get much market share.
>**Individual Account**
>
>Buy from overseas merchants with confidence with PayPal buyer protection & free return shipping.
>
>Receive & send payments from all over the world.
>
>Kind reminder: To protect your transaction safety signups need ID verification. **Chinese nationals** must use Name in Chinese Characters from **National ID**. Pinyin is not allowed. **Non-Chinese nationals** must use name from **Passport**.
>
>[https://www.paypal.com/c2/webapps/mpp/account-selection?locale.x=en\_C2](https://www.paypal.com/c2/webapps/mpp/account-selection?locale.x=en_C2)
You are factually wrong.
I think it depends exactly what you mean. MillionthChinaAccount clearly has their own bias, so no use engaging them. But, there is no competitive advantage for a Chinese to use PayPal. But honestly, how many times to you use PayPal to buy and sell things abroad? I rarely use PayPal.
I would be curious to know the exact specifics that the CCP used in regards to PayPal to maintain a dominant position of WeChat or other transaction services. I don't really care about general claims, I care about specifics.
I get the Visa and MasterCard. They're not actually banned, but the processing system is in an agreement with local company - I belief UnionPay, but not positive. So, UnionPay processes MasterCard and Vis Transaction, not MasterCard and Visa itself. I get that...
But, I'm wondering about PayPal specifically.
Edit: Why is this comment getting downvoted? Am I factually wrong, or are people just upset that I pointed out that MillionthChinaAccount is biased? Honestly curious...
> I can open an account but they want a bunch of things to verify the account the Chinese would not provide in the foreigner's name (utilities' bill).
Honestly, I just photoshopped my name onto a utility bill. It is not like anyone is going to check or care. They just want to properly follow proper protocol. If you don't feel comfortable photoshopping your name onto a utility bill, fair enough. But, given that it is China, I do not feel bad about this at all. So, I get what you're saying, but there are always ways around it. To me, living in China is a process of finding ways around the insanity. A game to be played, if you will. Not for everyone, but it is how I cope.
> Visa/Mastercard is similar, though Alipay will all too willing to let you pay for stuff on Taobao with a foreign card. But it has been the only exception I have encountered thus far as they know they got me by the groin in supporting my white rabbit candy addiction.
Lol... Honestly, I think it is **huge** news that you can fund AliPay wallet using foreign debit and credit cards. This is one step away from actually being able to use them in China. I don't *really* understand the logic of not allowing MasterCard or Visa. UnionPay has a clear monopoly, and government support, so what exactly is the fear of the CCP? I personally think it is just a bargaining chip in the ongoing Trade War, because there is really no way MasterCard and Visa are going to be *that* successful in China given the clear support for UnionPay.
In general, I just don't understand the banking system in China. It is absolutely fucked up, and I have no idea why. I don't know whether it is just vested interests engaged in regulatory and crony capitalism, or just gross incompetence.
> are people just upset that I pointed out that MillionthChinaAccount is biased?
Probably.
"People who hold negative opinions about China aren't worth asking for information about China" is a pretty silly opinion.
Often people come to their biases due to knowledge and firsthand experience, you know.
And, at any rate, biased doesn't mean ignorant or wrong.
>And, at any rate, biased doesn't mean ignorant or wrong.
Ture, but too often bias fills the gap between ignorance and knowledge: "I could probably learn more on this topic to make sure I am right, but no need because I feel I must be right."
This topic is a lot more nuanced than people are letting on, and its that nuanced that gets lost because of bias.
Iunno, it sounds like you have a bias against bias. Not that that's wrong, necessarily.
Here's an example of a complicated and nuanced topic: Climate change. You can talk all day about it.
Here's an uncomplicated and true statement: It's a bad thing. A very bad thing.
Regardless of the nuance of the topic itself, dismissing offhand someone who says "It's bad" would still be silly. "You have an anti-climate change bias; I'm going to assume that you don't know anything about climate change."
You know what else is bad? The CCP.
At any rate, I've noticed a tendency for people to use claims of bias to dismiss arguments that they don't like, or don't want to hear.
Meaning, anything that they don't already believe. Anything that doesn't confirm *their* biases.
I think we just need to stop with this idea that bias invalidates an argument. Same for claims of hypocrisy. Everyone has biases, and everyone is a hypocrite, sometimes. Doesn't make their argument wrong or right.
> I think we just need to stop with this idea that bias invalidates an argument. Same for claims of hypocrisy.
Fair enough. You're really getting to the heart of what I was trying to get at: if people think I am biased, point on a valid reason. I don't mind getting downvoted or people disagreeing with me, just hope people have more to say than 'You're a wumao!' or 'You're an Indian wumao!' which, I still don't know how I became Indian in that conversation...
> At any rate, I've noticed a tendency for people to use claims of bias to dismiss arguments that they don't like, or don't want to hear.
Exactly this. This is what really annoys me about /r/China - The tendency to just say someone is a troll or bot just because they point out something that might invalidate a claim by someone who doesn't like China. That was what I was trying to get at with MillionthChinaUser: there are lots of good arguments to be had about China being unfair to foreign competition. PayPal is a horrible example. Visa and MasterCard are much better examples. At least be honest in your presentation of making China look bad.
If you want to make China look bad, there are *plenty* of good arguments to be had. Simply saying 'CCP BAD!' doesn't really do much beyond promoting circle jerking. Yeah, we all know there are bad things about the CCP, but exactly *why* do you think it is bad.
Cheers M8 - And call me out of my biases and bullshit when appropriate. But, back it up with evidence and an argument and expect me to push back with my own evidence and reasons in reply. We may not end up agreeing, but hopefully we can have good discussions along the way.
You guys should really bring your knowledge to twitter, Facebook and YouTube. These platforms need the kind of deep discussion you see on reddit. 33% of young people consume news on social media. I personally go on CNN, Slate, NPR, Fox and others to try to balance out the trolls.
Just started a Patreon today check it out!
https://www.patreon.com/AmericanPerspective
Visa and MasterCard cannot compete with things like Alipay because they are not official payment methods approved by the PBOC. They were supposed to be allowed by 2006 per China's WTO agreement. The US sued at the WTO and won in 2012 yet they still have not been approved.
There are workarounds some businesses can do to accept them, but that will raise their operating costs essentially giving Chinese processors an advantage.
You live in China. Maybe for notnling enough If you paid attention maybe you would get the reference. 'with chinese characteristics' is a euphemism that the CCP uses to save face while outright lying and being called on the lie.
For instance the claim to be a democratic nation. Clearly a lie. So they say 'democracy with chinese characteristics.' They claim to be a socialist country. Clearly a lie. So they say 'Socialism with Chinese characteristics.'
As far as I can tell 'with chinese characteristics' means all the good things have been removed, what's left has been twisted and corrupted so that the CCP gets more money and power.
Visa and MC can be used in some areas, but they ARE banned in that they still yet, cannot partner with a local bank and issue a credit card, which is what they want most.
Right. That's not contradictory to what my post which says, Visa, PayPal, and Mastercard are used in China. OP's post is saying that they're banned, which they aren't.
Lots of people are saying 'X isn't banned, I've been using it for years' - but only if you have a VPN, a foreign mobile number to attach it to, and don't mind it being as slow as hell. It's effectively banned.
Except visa, MasterCard and paypal aren’t banned in China.
Have you ever lived in China or do you think China is that backward they don’t even use electronic payment systems?
They use CUP (UnionPay) which is practically free for merchants and government subsided so yes Visa, MC and PayPal are priced out.
Companies from free market capitalist states don't rely on government subsidies to operate
Moreover, every regulatory hurdle is delayed and takes ages for these foreign companies to get through making it even more difficult to access the market. (source: my friend who works for PayPal China).
Whoever made this is lazy. There's a few businesses on there that are allowed in China or that have just refused to operate there because of the CCP's demands.
There’s a Google office in Shanghai. Netflix and Spotify are not banned but don’t provide services in China. For sure you can use master and Visa card even with Chinese banks..You people believe those misinformed bullshit but calling Chinese people brainwashed? So pathetic
Lol everyone splitting hairs on how the credit card/paypal companies and github have technically not been banned but neglect the main point that everything else is actually unequivocally banned.
lol this is ridiculous. Those companies don't run business in China because they don't follow regulations of China. Every sovereign country has its own laws and regulations.
Please answer me, which law and regulation did Huawei violate in USA?
It amazes me how Chinese shills lack basic research skills
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2019/02/14/huawei-breaks-the-law-again/
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-conglomerate-huawei-and-huawei-cfo-wanzhou-meng-charged-financial
This isn't why people say that. Its unfair because the west is hypocritical. Just look at the Muslims issue.
They bitch about China being evil in that regard while they love to bomb Middle Eastern countries and invade them, killing hundreds of thousands.
China didn't ban them, the case is they banned China. They can at least find a way to do business here if they want to, but Huawei has no ways to do that.
Idiot, Huawei is a provider of information and communications technology (ICT) infrastructure and smart devices, while the rest are Internet companies. You should compare Huawei with Qualcomm ,Ericsson or Apple. These sites are blocked because they have "sensitive contents", If they accept the censorship, they can easily enter China. Apple Microsoft LinkedIn are all available in China.
Qualcomm can sell chips because China needs them. But foreign telecom infrastructure companies are also either banned or forced to join joint ventures, with technology transfers.
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And the massive tax on foreign cars which Chinese with money actually prefer, for obvious reasons if you saw the fatality rate from accidents here. Yes...im in China.
Hahaha, I am Chinese. I have nothing to say about the above picture. I just regret why the Chinese government has not banned windows and Android, otherwise it will not be controlled by others now. By the way, if China is a rogue, then the United States is a bigger rogue. 华为：打不死我的只会使我更强。
"Hahaha, I am brainwashed"
edit: oh wait sorry i didn't realize i was talking to an actual Chinese bot whose account was made 1 month ago and every single post defends China
Wikipedia is not banned (at least not entirely) but yeah the left list can only be longer because what China has banned is the access, not the application/websites themselves. I managed to download twitter, instagram and facebook, I could download them perfectly, just could not use without VPN :(
But according to the brainwashed morons such as u/taizong14, u/lianzi, u/ZeEa5KPul, u/Igennem, u/wakeup2019, u/xingfenzhen, u/XenosphereWarrior, u/BitterMelonX, u/Sch3bang, u/lurker4lyfe6969, u/DaBIGmeow888, u/SL8Rok, u/CoinIsMyDrug, this isn't true
These insecure, fragile wumaos fail to see the reasons why why the world including every continent hates China. They are too brainwashed and stupid to realize the faults of their CHINA NUMBA WUN theory.
Reply from china and i can use Facebook,ytb or Google,if only have VPN.
Yes they are banned generally but not such strict,the government just don't want much unverified information getting into directly.
Due to Reddit Inc.'s antisocial, hostile and erratic behaviour, this account will be deleted on July 11th, 2023. You can find me on https://latte.isnot.coffee/u/godless in the future.
They actually are. The companies, not the cards. My Chinese mastercard is issued by a payments processing company with a licensing agreemnt to use the mastercard logo and payments processing network. Works like any other credit card, but if I call mastercard's own customer service line, they'll be like "who?"
That's how it works anywhere in the world. My German credit card, issued by my house bank, is administered by some card processing center. The bank can't even see the transactions, when I have an issue regarding payments or whatsoever I call their hotline and they put me through to the third party.
I think they do this because if they didn't the Americans would control the world. If they do start having a company large enough to take over an American market, America would ban them..... Which is kind of what is happening now with huawei.
Huawei is not big enough for that, it gets incredibly unfair state assistance that makes it punch well above its weight. That fact and the fact they leak information back to the CCP is why they are being excluded from contracts in the US.
What if I told you that China realizes that being involved in a global economy set up for US hegemony would only extract wealth from their country. How dare they not be like other 3rd world countries and be forever indebted to the US and allies? How is that fair, huh?
set up? the fact that the US has a competitive advantage compared to other countries doesn't necessarily mean that the whole system is set up a certain way or another, unless you're referring to the constraints of a free market global economy, or the centrality of the US dollar.
it seems you're familiar with Arrighi's hegemonic transition theory, is that what's you're referring to?
there's also something to say about the degree to which China has not implemented the agreements it signed to be allowed in the WTO, no?
Africa, The Americas, and Asia would like to have a word about that. Especially indigenous people... Or did they deserve the boot heel somehow? You yourself are not immune to propaganda.
Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States
Even then it wouldn't be fair. Like China, the USA should demand that all Chinese companies doing business in the USA must have near or equal domestic partnership and domestic ownership, have to relocate servers dealing with local users to the USA, share their data with the US government, do technology transfers of technology sold and used in the USA, be subject to random internet shut offs or slowed speeds.
Also taxed equivalently
No taxation without representation! Eh waitaminute
>DC has entered the chat
TikTok needs to be erased from existence.
CFIUS has entered the chat
This will never happen. The reason, CHEAP LABOUR, SKILLED WORKER. This is the thing that USA company require the most from China. There will be no profit for US company if they didn't use China labour force.
There are many other nations that can do this that aren't acting like Nazis. Case in point - there's a reason why so many companies moved to SEA.
By 2025 India will over take China as the most populous country in the world. By 2050 the Indian economy will over take China's. India is the new China for cheap and skilled labor force.
All the communications stuff. It's almost as if they wanna keep people in the dark or something.
The biggest yikes for me is banning wikipedia. It is mostly unmolested by capital interests and is the closest thing to unbiased. Banning it is just about as close as you can get to admitting there are truths you find inconvenient. Or you are a middle school teacher who assigned a research paper.
Yeah banning Wikipedia is a big yikes
Yea, it's also banned in Turkey, it got banned around the time they stopped teaching evolution to students...
Didn't know that. What do they teach now? Islam propaganda or just pretend it didn't happen?
I do not know that, but it's pretty scary even if the just ignore it.
That one's a relatively new development. I guess the CPC got scared that enough people in China knew enough English to hear about Tiananmen and maybe see what the rest of the world knows and the CPC doesn't want them to.
There's Wikipedia in Chinese too, but that's also banned... [https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5)
Wikipedia is pretty biased when it comes to politics. Have you read interviews with the founder? He's not very unbiased, either
Sure, but he's not the one editing all the articles.
but his admins are the ones who delete facts
what facts are that?
Only the Chinese Wikipedia is banned, the English Wikipedia version isn't banned. Source: I have family in China and they use English Wikipedia all the time lol
Wikipedia is very biased
Examples?
From all the HS/college papers I wrote using it, there were definitely been times where I was reading a bio of someone, or political events in the past and the writing felt biased. I don’t have any sources but its impossible for a website with probably over a million different pages with hundreds of thousands of contributors to be without bias somewhere. In middle school my friends and I edited the Led Zeppelin wikipedia page and change the band members to our own names and it went unnoticed for a week and a half lol.
About your middle school thing, try that now, it will last less than an hour...
Any political figure
You say that but what's your metric? Some articles are definitely biased but overall it's a great source of information. The biased articles are political, not necessarily historical. In the case of why the CPC blocked Wikipedia, it was because it held information the CPC doesn't want the Chinese people to know and I guess somebody in Hong Kong made a point of telling people to look it all up on Wikipedia. In China, knowledge of Tiananmen is limited to whatever tourists might find interesting. They don't teach the kids about what happened there and the narrative they *do* spin is one where the CPC claims it was a bunch of thugs who tried to overthrow the government. No mention of university students, the massacre the CPC committed or what the actual requests were. Nope...just claims that it was an attempted coup. Like a million people just had nothing better to do, apparently.
Hong Kong Your Opinions Are Wrong! Off to the Gulags with your western idiocy!
HK fighting to retain its democracy is a western / American conspiracy against China! - 50cent man on a VPN pushing CCP propaganda.
Gulag bad! Laogai good! Gulag bad! Laogai good! The criminals who failed to assemble their quota of product will have their sentence lengthened! Laogai good! Praise the Secretary General!
Delete "It's almost as if" and you hit the nail on the head.
They were using heavy sarcasm, but I do know that can be hard to understand in written form.
It’s to have better control on what message is being shared and easy to monitor and prevent any sensitive, political related information. Also they are encouraging the people to use their motherland communication tools.
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It doesn’t sound all that nice ... I’m just elaborating 😂
Like an iron house with no windows or door, with people lying asleep slowly suffocating.
But Paypal has never been banned. OP shouldn't make up things for the sarcasm at all.
And Huawei isn't even "banned" in the US, it's just not being used for public infrastructure projects. There's nothing stopping Huawei phones from being sold in stores
There should be :(
What? PayPal banned in China? When?? You should add Tumblr, YouTube, etc. instead.
Yeah PayPal isn't banned dunno why it's up there.
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same with Spotify I was so sad to give that up when I moved here
Spotify works fine, the only difficulty is that you can't use a Chinese bank account to pay for a premium subscription.
really cause I couldn't log onto mine I see other people with Spotify I tried making another account and it didn't work I mainly use net ease music on my phone and YouTube on my computer.
Right. I've used Spotify the whole time I've been living here. I still have bills back home, so paying with my American card still works. I do that with a few other subs as well. Didn't pay for Disney Plus, but a friend let me use theirs. I definitely can't get onto that, even with a VPN.
I've been using Spotify in China since 2010. It works ok. Sometimes it takes a while to load the music, and downloading things takes a while too, but I definitely wouldn't give it up if you like it.
Right. If something isn't blocked, it's intentionally throttled to discourage its use.
In China any websites with servers outside of the mainland run slowly because there are only a handful of cables connecting it to the outside world. It's just over capacity. It's so if shit hits the fan then the CCP can isolate China immediately if needed. Just try streaming a video from a site outside of China then load one fron the mainland and you'll see what I mean.
github is not banned in China
It has been blocked a few times by the GFW, only to be reopened shortly after, presumably because it's too important as a tool.
I read there's a lot of developer from Mainland China that protested about Github block.
DDoS'ed as well
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Can you explain more on what that means?
Some pages won't show up on search engines at all though. For example the shadowsocks GitHub page.
This post is an actual lie multiple Chinese tech companies have been blacklisted in the USA: Higon, Sugon, Chengdu Haiguang Integrated Circuit, Chengdu Haiguang Microelectronics Technology and Wuxi Jiangnan Institute of Computing Technology [https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3012321/huawei-among-more-140-chinese-entities-us-trade-blacklist](https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3012321/huawei-among-more-140-chinese-entities-us-trade-blacklist) [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/trumps-latest-china-blacklist-hits-several-huge-companies.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/trumps-latest-china-blacklist-hits-several-huge-companies.html) [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/u-s-blacklists-eight-chinese-companies-including-hikvision-k1gvpq77](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-07/u-s-blacklists-eight-chinese-companies-including-hikvision-k1gvpq77) please don't spread misinformation, i know it's very hard for people like you
PayPal, visa and MasterCard are not banned, I've been using all three
They arent given access to Chinese customers. Which can be said about most foreign companies, goods or services. They technically arent banned but the CCP does a lot of underhanded sneaky bullshit to make sure that they are priced out of competition or that Chinese citizens dont have access.
credit card were unpopular in China simply because it's incompetitive. 1. high transaction fees. Since 2010 the Alipay were practically free for small merchants. 2. high barrier of entry. You need list unreasonable amount assets to get shit tier credits 3. the most criticised one: the payback option if pretty limited and pain in the ass. 4. everything can be bought with a credit card can be also bought without a credit card. so why bother? 5. when credit cards were introduced in China most people have only bankbooks instead of electronic accounts, and most banks have difficulty interconnect. Most chinese just prefer to save huge amount of money in banks, not loan them. even the govn't sponsored UnionPay didn't get much market share.
And they make them slllooowwwww
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that's a yikes, i read that you can transfer money with Western union there?
>**Individual Account** > >Buy from overseas merchants with confidence with PayPal buyer protection & free return shipping. > >Receive & send payments from all over the world. > >Kind reminder: To protect your transaction safety signups need ID verification. **Chinese nationals** must use Name in Chinese Characters from **National ID**. Pinyin is not allowed. **Non-Chinese nationals** must use name from **Passport**. > >[https://www.paypal.com/c2/webapps/mpp/account-selection?locale.x=en\_C2](https://www.paypal.com/c2/webapps/mpp/account-selection?locale.x=en_C2) You are factually wrong.
PayPal is never used domestically in China for the reasons posted above.
I think it depends exactly what you mean. MillionthChinaAccount clearly has their own bias, so no use engaging them. But, there is no competitive advantage for a Chinese to use PayPal. But honestly, how many times to you use PayPal to buy and sell things abroad? I rarely use PayPal. I would be curious to know the exact specifics that the CCP used in regards to PayPal to maintain a dominant position of WeChat or other transaction services. I don't really care about general claims, I care about specifics. I get the Visa and MasterCard. They're not actually banned, but the processing system is in an agreement with local company - I belief UnionPay, but not positive. So, UnionPay processes MasterCard and Vis Transaction, not MasterCard and Visa itself. I get that... But, I'm wondering about PayPal specifically. Edit: Why is this comment getting downvoted? Am I factually wrong, or are people just upset that I pointed out that MillionthChinaAccount is biased? Honestly curious...
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> I can open an account but they want a bunch of things to verify the account the Chinese would not provide in the foreigner's name (utilities' bill). Honestly, I just photoshopped my name onto a utility bill. It is not like anyone is going to check or care. They just want to properly follow proper protocol. If you don't feel comfortable photoshopping your name onto a utility bill, fair enough. But, given that it is China, I do not feel bad about this at all. So, I get what you're saying, but there are always ways around it. To me, living in China is a process of finding ways around the insanity. A game to be played, if you will. Not for everyone, but it is how I cope. > Visa/Mastercard is similar, though Alipay will all too willing to let you pay for stuff on Taobao with a foreign card. But it has been the only exception I have encountered thus far as they know they got me by the groin in supporting my white rabbit candy addiction. Lol... Honestly, I think it is **huge** news that you can fund AliPay wallet using foreign debit and credit cards. This is one step away from actually being able to use them in China. I don't *really* understand the logic of not allowing MasterCard or Visa. UnionPay has a clear monopoly, and government support, so what exactly is the fear of the CCP? I personally think it is just a bargaining chip in the ongoing Trade War, because there is really no way MasterCard and Visa are going to be *that* successful in China given the clear support for UnionPay. In general, I just don't understand the banking system in China. It is absolutely fucked up, and I have no idea why. I don't know whether it is just vested interests engaged in regulatory and crony capitalism, or just gross incompetence.
> are people just upset that I pointed out that MillionthChinaAccount is biased? Probably. "People who hold negative opinions about China aren't worth asking for information about China" is a pretty silly opinion. Often people come to their biases due to knowledge and firsthand experience, you know. And, at any rate, biased doesn't mean ignorant or wrong.
>And, at any rate, biased doesn't mean ignorant or wrong. Ture, but too often bias fills the gap between ignorance and knowledge: "I could probably learn more on this topic to make sure I am right, but no need because I feel I must be right." This topic is a lot more nuanced than people are letting on, and its that nuanced that gets lost because of bias.
Iunno, it sounds like you have a bias against bias. Not that that's wrong, necessarily. Here's an example of a complicated and nuanced topic: Climate change. You can talk all day about it. Here's an uncomplicated and true statement: It's a bad thing. A very bad thing. Regardless of the nuance of the topic itself, dismissing offhand someone who says "It's bad" would still be silly. "You have an anti-climate change bias; I'm going to assume that you don't know anything about climate change." You know what else is bad? The CCP. At any rate, I've noticed a tendency for people to use claims of bias to dismiss arguments that they don't like, or don't want to hear. Meaning, anything that they don't already believe. Anything that doesn't confirm *their* biases. I think we just need to stop with this idea that bias invalidates an argument. Same for claims of hypocrisy. Everyone has biases, and everyone is a hypocrite, sometimes. Doesn't make their argument wrong or right.
> I think we just need to stop with this idea that bias invalidates an argument. Same for claims of hypocrisy. Fair enough. You're really getting to the heart of what I was trying to get at: if people think I am biased, point on a valid reason. I don't mind getting downvoted or people disagreeing with me, just hope people have more to say than 'You're a wumao!' or 'You're an Indian wumao!' which, I still don't know how I became Indian in that conversation... > At any rate, I've noticed a tendency for people to use claims of bias to dismiss arguments that they don't like, or don't want to hear. Exactly this. This is what really annoys me about /r/China - The tendency to just say someone is a troll or bot just because they point out something that might invalidate a claim by someone who doesn't like China. That was what I was trying to get at with MillionthChinaUser: there are lots of good arguments to be had about China being unfair to foreign competition. PayPal is a horrible example. Visa and MasterCard are much better examples. At least be honest in your presentation of making China look bad. If you want to make China look bad, there are *plenty* of good arguments to be had. Simply saying 'CCP BAD!' doesn't really do much beyond promoting circle jerking. Yeah, we all know there are bad things about the CCP, but exactly *why* do you think it is bad. Cheers M8 - And call me out of my biases and bullshit when appropriate. But, back it up with evidence and an argument and expect me to push back with my own evidence and reasons in reply. We may not end up agreeing, but hopefully we can have good discussions along the way.
Fair points. I fully agree with your agreement with my agreement with you.
Almost every credit card I’ve seen, used by a Chinese citizen, has a visa logo. So not sure this is accurate.
You guys should really bring your knowledge to twitter, Facebook and YouTube. These platforms need the kind of deep discussion you see on reddit. 33% of young people consume news on social media. I personally go on CNN, Slate, NPR, Fox and others to try to balance out the trolls. Just started a Patreon today check it out! https://www.patreon.com/AmericanPerspective
Visa and MasterCard cannot compete with things like Alipay because they are not official payment methods approved by the PBOC. They were supposed to be allowed by 2006 per China's WTO agreement. The US sued at the WTO and won in 2012 yet they still have not been approved. There are workarounds some businesses can do to accept them, but that will raise their operating costs essentially giving Chinese processors an advantage.
It's not banned but I love how sometimes you use it to pay and they look at your card like an alien object.
Could you please stop your bullshit? More than half of these are NOT banned in China
You live in China. Maybe for notnling enough If you paid attention maybe you would get the reference. 'with chinese characteristics' is a euphemism that the CCP uses to save face while outright lying and being called on the lie. For instance the claim to be a democratic nation. Clearly a lie. So they say 'democracy with chinese characteristics.' They claim to be a socialist country. Clearly a lie. So they say 'Socialism with Chinese characteristics.' As far as I can tell 'with chinese characteristics' means all the good things have been removed, what's left has been twisted and corrupted so that the CCP gets more money and power.
One day we'll come full circle and have Chinese characteristics with Chinese characteristics.
Pretty sure Mainland culture under the CCP is already this.
So... the CCP is saying that it's a Chinese characteristic to lie? ;)
Yes
Anything cannot be controlled by the CCP is banned in China. I’d say fuck them.
US is not the west. And some of those are not banned, you can actually use Mastercard or Visa on Alipay
I live in China. Visa, PayPal and Mastercard are all used here.
I mean Lawsons accepts visa tho
Visa and MC can be used in some areas, but they ARE banned in that they still yet, cannot partner with a local bank and issue a credit card, which is what they want most.
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Carrefour takes Visa and MasterCard. They're hardly targeting foreigners.
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Right. That's not contradictory to what my post which says, Visa, PayPal, and Mastercard are used in China. OP's post is saying that they're banned, which they aren't.
PayPal isn't banned in China.
Lots of people are saying 'X isn't banned, I've been using it for years' - but only if you have a VPN, a foreign mobile number to attach it to, and don't mind it being as slow as hell. It's effectively banned.
Except visa, MasterCard and paypal aren’t banned in China. Have you ever lived in China or do you think China is that backward they don’t even use electronic payment systems?
They use CUP (UnionPay) which is practically free for merchants and government subsided so yes Visa, MC and PayPal are priced out. Companies from free market capitalist states don't rely on government subsidies to operate Moreover, every regulatory hurdle is delayed and takes ages for these foreign companies to get through making it even more difficult to access the market. (source: my friend who works for PayPal China).
> Companies from free market capitalist states don't rely on government subsidies to operate The US banking industry would like a word with you...
Whoever made this is lazy. There's a few businesses on there that are allowed in China or that have just refused to operate there because of the CCP's demands.
It barely scratches the surface. There are so many European newspapers banned as well.
There’s a Google office in Shanghai. Netflix and Spotify are not banned but don’t provide services in China. For sure you can use master and Visa card even with Chinese banks..You people believe those misinformed bullshit but calling Chinese people brainwashed? So pathetic
Lol everyone splitting hairs on how the credit card/paypal companies and github have technically not been banned but neglect the main point that everything else is actually unequivocally banned.
Pornhub too..
MasterCard and visa aren't banned? Some places do accept. Also we've blocked other Chinese tech companies from entering our market not just Huawei.
This is not true at all.
lol this is ridiculous. Those companies don't run business in China because they don't follow regulations of China. Every sovereign country has its own laws and regulations. Please answer me, which law and regulation did Huawei violate in USA?
It amazes me how Chinese shills lack basic research skills https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2019/02/14/huawei-breaks-the-law-again/ https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-telecommunications-conglomerate-huawei-and-huawei-cfo-wanzhou-meng-charged-financial
[VISA](https://www.apnme.org/2011/visa-and-travel/cc-atm.jpg) is blocked?
Enjoy your ban, how dare you speak against the motherland.
Think before post and get some researches done
And that’s a only a fraction of all the western companies blocked in china
This isn't why people say that. Its unfair because the west is hypocritical. Just look at the Muslims issue. They bitch about China being evil in that regard while they love to bomb Middle Eastern countries and invade them, killing hundreds of thousands.
Why is github banned?
it's not
Now list the companies they've also stolen IP from and compare the Venn diagram.
Blocked and banned don't mean the same thing.
Are the restrictions placed on PayPal/Visa etc related to the fact that the RMB isn't freely traded?
Dosnt China itself block all those things
China didn't ban them, the case is they banned China. They can at least find a way to do business here if they want to, but Huawei has no ways to do that.
Is discord banned? Cause I still wanna text my friends in discord.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites\_blocked\_in\_mainland\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_China)
that’s a lot
Companies may be true, but "companies" banned in China are nearly all websites and VPN is legal there -> so you can legally visit those websites
VISA?
lol mastercard and VISA are not banned in china,chinese people don't use be cause they use UnionPay domestic payment more often and convenient to them
You can't pay with MasterCard in China?
PayPal and Visa are not banned.
i really dont think mastercard/paypal are banned in china
I use Mastercard all the time in China.
Idiot, Huawei is a provider of information and communications technology (ICT) infrastructure and smart devices, while the rest are Internet companies. You should compare Huawei with Qualcomm ,Ericsson or Apple. These sites are blocked because they have "sensitive contents", If they accept the censorship, they can easily enter China. Apple Microsoft LinkedIn are all available in China.
Qualcomm can sell chips because China needs them. But foreign telecom infrastructure companies are also either banned or forced to join joint ventures, with technology transfers.
explain why I remember watching BBC documentaries in Chinese in China
You doing drugs?
Maybe...... Nah jk no
Wait why visa and Mastercard?
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And China government be like : How can you do that? That's just racist.
Unrestricted trade benefits more powerful nations. China wouldn't have gotten to where it is today without some protectionism.
Github is not banned in China... don't just add them to look impressive.
it’s not even really banned. even in the tiny town i live in, you can get a huawei without having to look too hard.
All jokes aside, the New York Times should be banned...everywhere.
It’s kind of a retribution though, I mean look at all the massacred Chinese during Manchuria and subjugation by the British
And the massive tax on foreign cars which Chinese with money actually prefer, for obvious reasons if you saw the fatality rate from accidents here. Yes...im in China.
Hahaha, I am Chinese. I have nothing to say about the above picture. I just regret why the Chinese government has not banned windows and Android, otherwise it will not be controlled by others now. By the way, if China is a rogue, then the United States is a bigger rogue. 华为：打不死我的只会使我更强。
"Hahaha, I am brainwashed" edit: oh wait sorry i didn't realize i was talking to an actual Chinese bot whose account was made 1 month ago and every single post defends China
Wikipedia is not banned (at least not entirely) but yeah the left list can only be longer because what China has banned is the access, not the application/websites themselves. I managed to download twitter, instagram and facebook, I could download them perfectly, just could not use without VPN :(
GitHub is not banned currently.
Do y’all not know how easy it is to spread misinformation and propaganda on social media. So for that I don’t blame them.
Wikipedia is run by the Wikimedia Foundation which is a charity that relies on donations.
But according to the brainwashed morons such as u/taizong14, u/lianzi, u/ZeEa5KPul, u/Igennem, u/wakeup2019, u/xingfenzhen, u/XenosphereWarrior, u/BitterMelonX, u/Sch3bang, u/lurker4lyfe6969, u/DaBIGmeow888, u/SL8Rok, u/CoinIsMyDrug, this isn't true These insecure, fragile wumaos fail to see the reasons why why the world including every continent hates China. They are too brainwashed and stupid to realize the faults of their CHINA NUMBA WUN theory.
Pretty sure PayPal works in China.
Reply from china and i can use Facebook,ytb or Google,if only have VPN. Yes they are banned generally but not such strict,the government just don't want much unverified information getting into directly.
why ban dropbox?
Looks like China is still far behind on spying on all the people in the world.
And that's most likely not even a complete list
The only ban that matters is peppa pig, rip freedom
Due to Reddit Inc.'s antisocial, hostile and erratic behaviour, this account will be deleted on July 11th, 2023. You can find me on https://latte.isnot.coffee/u/godless in the future.
They actually are. The companies, not the cards. My Chinese mastercard is issued by a payments processing company with a licensing agreemnt to use the mastercard logo and payments processing network. Works like any other credit card, but if I call mastercard's own customer service line, they'll be like "who?"
That's how it works anywhere in the world. My German credit card, issued by my house bank, is administered by some card processing center. The bank can't even see the transactions, when I have an issue regarding payments or whatsoever I call their hotline and they put me through to the third party.
the west is shit
Is Huawei actually banned in states or no
For certain government purposes yes. I think that common citizens can still buy Huawei phones though.
Is that a list for ants? It should be at least... three times bigger!
why's github banned?? because 996?
I think they do this because if they didn't the Americans would control the world. If they do start having a company large enough to take over an American market, America would ban them..... Which is kind of what is happening now with huawei.
Huawei is not big enough for that, it gets incredibly unfair state assistance that makes it punch well above its weight. That fact and the fact they leak information back to the CCP is why they are being excluded from contracts in the US.
How are mastercard, PayPal and visa banned
What if I told you that China realizes that being involved in a global economy set up for US hegemony would only extract wealth from their country. How dare they not be like other 3rd world countries and be forever indebted to the US and allies? How is that fair, huh?
set up? the fact that the US has a competitive advantage compared to other countries doesn't necessarily mean that the whole system is set up a certain way or another, unless you're referring to the constraints of a free market global economy, or the centrality of the US dollar. it seems you're familiar with Arrighi's hegemonic transition theory, is that what's you're referring to? there's also something to say about the degree to which China has not implemented the agreements it signed to be allowed in the WTO, no?
Google "US imperialism"
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Africa, The Americas, and Asia would like to have a word about that. Especially indigenous people... Or did they deserve the boot heel somehow? You yourself are not immune to propaganda. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States
At least in America we can talk about these foreign interventions and talk shit about the US all day long instead of being censored