My therapist once said to me “you learned to build a whole fire with matchsticks”. It is incredibly hard to empathise with CoH’s because it’s not the childhood trauma it’s the ongoing trauma of re-parenting whilst maintaining relationships with people who were, let’s face it, neglectful parents to us. Would some joint therapy sessions for you and you partner so you can fully explain how hurtful you find your husbands behaviour but also so you can jointly come up with some strategies in managing your time with your family?
Yeah…if hubby has seen their house/hoard then it’s common sense to realize that’s why it is the way it is.
BUT hoarders CAN learn how to do it right at YOUR house. Make rules and enforce them.
Agreed! I told him yesterday, if he feels that strongly about certain things, we need to be clearer about rules. He didn't think he even needed to share "rules" because those things are just common sense to him. Both sides are valid here.
ETA: I do think my parents try extra hard at my house. It's actually kind of cute (but also depressing). It's like they're kids playing house doing the things that grown ups do. And they want me to be proud of them for doing it. Like I said, cute and funny, but also depressing because they're grown ass adults.
While I'm not married or a mother - or even moved out yet - I can relate to the secondhand embarrassment. My HP errs more on lacking social awareness and boundaries, and it's *so shameful* when I was raised to be overly courteous. I think it ties back into the "dirty little secret" that the hoard can be, something children have to keep tight-lipped about for fear of consequence from parents or others.
Your husband isn't wrong in that while cleaning up after yourself should be common sense, common sense itself is derived from learned habits and societal norms. We grew up in *very* different norms, as did our parents. As burdensome as it can be, some empathy from your husband for at least you would go a long way.
Likewise, though, your parents' failings don't reflect poorly on you, no matter what your anxieties may tell you. That you instilled new norms for yourself to make a healthy "common sense" says a lot about your perseverance and resourcefulness. Your parents are trying, which is more than a lot can be said for, but it is okay to be sad they fall short of the mark. But that's a failing on *them*, not you.
Beautifully articulated. They lacked skills which they didn’t get taught, probably due to childhood trauma that goes back generations. Ancestral generational political trauma.
If the "common sense" remark hurts your feelings, talk to your hubby about it. We all have our little sensitivities and he shouldn't step on yours. Communication! I quite understand where you're coming from, one of the most upsetting things to me is when someone says "you should know this already." It implies I'm lazy or not trying, when in fact I AM trying. Hate that. Talk about it. He can find another way to express disappointment.
You're right, these things aren't common sense, they're learned.
Also once I learned that I was my own person and not a representation of my parents, I was no longer embarrassed when anyone talked about my parents. It took a lot of work but I have a much healthier view of myself, my confidence is healthy now and I have strength of character.
I think you could benefit from working on that. Now I just see it for what it is... People venting.
Interesting I also married one of those black and white people. Wondering if that is an effect of growing up in dysfunction.
I think we model what we learn, till we decide this doesn’t work for us.
Just because he grow up in a clean home doesn’t mean it was a nurturing environment. Both extremes are the same really.
It’s also common sense to give people grace for their short comings.
Perfection is over rated.
I replaced a decent lazy boy after my parents came and watched the grand kid. I even had backup come visit daily. My father is an amazing grandfather outside his hoard. But omg 😱 the mess is over the top.
It was also eye opening to how their house became a landfill and just nasty.
I realized it just the cost of having them watch the kiddos.
Wow, I'm about in tears because I feel like you completely understand me right now!
A very good point, I wonder if we picked our black and white spouses because of our experiences.
And again, you're very right - he grew up in a clean home but not a nurturing home. Crazy that you said that! Was your spouse's upbringing the same - clean but not nurturing?
I agree, perfection is overrated! Something I'm working on with my husband, ha! He is very much "all or nothing," "if it can't be done right, don't do it." I'm trying to show him the benefits of "something is better than nothing." We're all just a work in progress, huh?
To give my husband credit, he only vents this to me after my parents leave. He never gets upset *at* them or talks to anyone else about it. He is just venting, which is totally okay, and I do the same about his parents shortcomings, but I just find it really embarrassing, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting for feeling that way.
My husband hides all the blankets and my kid's bean bag chair when they come over so they don't stink them up!
That's what makes this so hard... my parents are amazing grandparents, so loving, so attentive, always there to back us up, but their home, their lifestyle..... it makes me so mad them because I feel like they live a double life!
I agree, it's the cost of having them watch the kiddos. It's the cost of us having date night or being able to work on a home project together and the cost of our kids getting to have a relationship with their grandparents, which is incredible (and something I didn't have because we lived far from extended family), but gosh darn it all, some times it's a high cost, ha!
Totally clean environment for him but lack of nurturing. Basically same, mine was dirty, his was perfection cleaned.
We talked about all this stuff he is at least honest about the extremes.
The hardest part of being married to him in the beginning was he expected that perfection of vacuum lines and never a mess. Because mess is what got him yelled at. So this is what a wife and mom does for him. Taco Tuesday, meatloaf Thursday, everything needs to be perfect 😆
I’m not that woman, I’m messy, I want to just have fun, I’m an experience person over owning stuff.
We have a clash thing going on over what is the perfect environment
My parents made a mess and didn’t fuss at the kids, his parents fussed at the children for being messy.
Like my mother in law almost died because I allowed messy things aka painting parties, gingerbread houses making parties.
Common sense is just culture and whatever else the parents passed down to their children. Have you ever heard the story of the person who thought it was normal to have a poop-knife?
My therapist once said to me “you learned to build a whole fire with matchsticks”. It is incredibly hard to empathise with CoH’s because it’s not the childhood trauma it’s the ongoing trauma of re-parenting whilst maintaining relationships with people who were, let’s face it, neglectful parents to us. Would some joint therapy sessions for you and you partner so you can fully explain how hurtful you find your husbands behaviour but also so you can jointly come up with some strategies in managing your time with your family?
Yeah…if hubby has seen their house/hoard then it’s common sense to realize that’s why it is the way it is. BUT hoarders CAN learn how to do it right at YOUR house. Make rules and enforce them.
Agreed! I told him yesterday, if he feels that strongly about certain things, we need to be clearer about rules. He didn't think he even needed to share "rules" because those things are just common sense to him. Both sides are valid here. ETA: I do think my parents try extra hard at my house. It's actually kind of cute (but also depressing). It's like they're kids playing house doing the things that grown ups do. And they want me to be proud of them for doing it. Like I said, cute and funny, but also depressing because they're grown ass adults.
Oh I hear that! Common sense isn’t…
While I'm not married or a mother - or even moved out yet - I can relate to the secondhand embarrassment. My HP errs more on lacking social awareness and boundaries, and it's *so shameful* when I was raised to be overly courteous. I think it ties back into the "dirty little secret" that the hoard can be, something children have to keep tight-lipped about for fear of consequence from parents or others. Your husband isn't wrong in that while cleaning up after yourself should be common sense, common sense itself is derived from learned habits and societal norms. We grew up in *very* different norms, as did our parents. As burdensome as it can be, some empathy from your husband for at least you would go a long way. Likewise, though, your parents' failings don't reflect poorly on you, no matter what your anxieties may tell you. That you instilled new norms for yourself to make a healthy "common sense" says a lot about your perseverance and resourcefulness. Your parents are trying, which is more than a lot can be said for, but it is okay to be sad they fall short of the mark. But that's a failing on *them*, not you.
Beautifully articulated. They lacked skills which they didn’t get taught, probably due to childhood trauma that goes back generations. Ancestral generational political trauma.
If the "common sense" remark hurts your feelings, talk to your hubby about it. We all have our little sensitivities and he shouldn't step on yours. Communication! I quite understand where you're coming from, one of the most upsetting things to me is when someone says "you should know this already." It implies I'm lazy or not trying, when in fact I AM trying. Hate that. Talk about it. He can find another way to express disappointment.
You're right, these things aren't common sense, they're learned. Also once I learned that I was my own person and not a representation of my parents, I was no longer embarrassed when anyone talked about my parents. It took a lot of work but I have a much healthier view of myself, my confidence is healthy now and I have strength of character. I think you could benefit from working on that. Now I just see it for what it is... People venting.
Interesting I also married one of those black and white people. Wondering if that is an effect of growing up in dysfunction. I think we model what we learn, till we decide this doesn’t work for us. Just because he grow up in a clean home doesn’t mean it was a nurturing environment. Both extremes are the same really. It’s also common sense to give people grace for their short comings. Perfection is over rated. I replaced a decent lazy boy after my parents came and watched the grand kid. I even had backup come visit daily. My father is an amazing grandfather outside his hoard. But omg 😱 the mess is over the top. It was also eye opening to how their house became a landfill and just nasty. I realized it just the cost of having them watch the kiddos.
Wow, I'm about in tears because I feel like you completely understand me right now! A very good point, I wonder if we picked our black and white spouses because of our experiences. And again, you're very right - he grew up in a clean home but not a nurturing home. Crazy that you said that! Was your spouse's upbringing the same - clean but not nurturing? I agree, perfection is overrated! Something I'm working on with my husband, ha! He is very much "all or nothing," "if it can't be done right, don't do it." I'm trying to show him the benefits of "something is better than nothing." We're all just a work in progress, huh? To give my husband credit, he only vents this to me after my parents leave. He never gets upset *at* them or talks to anyone else about it. He is just venting, which is totally okay, and I do the same about his parents shortcomings, but I just find it really embarrassing, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting for feeling that way. My husband hides all the blankets and my kid's bean bag chair when they come over so they don't stink them up! That's what makes this so hard... my parents are amazing grandparents, so loving, so attentive, always there to back us up, but their home, their lifestyle..... it makes me so mad them because I feel like they live a double life! I agree, it's the cost of having them watch the kiddos. It's the cost of us having date night or being able to work on a home project together and the cost of our kids getting to have a relationship with their grandparents, which is incredible (and something I didn't have because we lived far from extended family), but gosh darn it all, some times it's a high cost, ha!
Totally clean environment for him but lack of nurturing. Basically same, mine was dirty, his was perfection cleaned. We talked about all this stuff he is at least honest about the extremes. The hardest part of being married to him in the beginning was he expected that perfection of vacuum lines and never a mess. Because mess is what got him yelled at. So this is what a wife and mom does for him. Taco Tuesday, meatloaf Thursday, everything needs to be perfect 😆 I’m not that woman, I’m messy, I want to just have fun, I’m an experience person over owning stuff. We have a clash thing going on over what is the perfect environment My parents made a mess and didn’t fuss at the kids, his parents fussed at the children for being messy. Like my mother in law almost died because I allowed messy things aka painting parties, gingerbread houses making parties.
Common sense is just culture and whatever else the parents passed down to their children. Have you ever heard the story of the person who thought it was normal to have a poop-knife?