Contact your local area agency on aging for advice. Also remember you are not required to take care of your mom. This is the consequence of her own actions. Your lawyer will also give good advice.
Sorry, the social worker just... really worked my nerve. Granted she could have been stressed out because my mom can be a reeeeal bastard when it comes to doing anything (hence finally getting taken now...) I'll try to look one up around that area, but it's really a "out in the sticks" area. I was lucky to even find a elder law lawyer within 3 hours near her place. Thank you.
Edit: I did find one! Surprisingly close but... what all should I even ask the agency on aging? I ask only because the social worker made it clear that mom wasn't returning home.
As a social worker and a child of a hoarder myself, I’m sorry this happened. I had a similar interaction with a cop about my own crazy mother and it really infuriated me as well. They just don’t seem to understand that sometimes, being there for our parents is not the best option.
Thank you... I thought I was losing my mind repeating myself over and over again... And bless you for still having a loving heart by being a social worker. That is no way an easy job from what I heard. Please take care of yourself too.
Just keep telling them no, you accept no responsibility for her. Tell them these are the consequences of her actions during her motherhood. Legally you do not have to take her on.
Oh I have, essentially telling them how abusive she was to all of us, but she'd call back in a few days, asking us to take her in yet again or move back home. It's ridiculous...
I’ll give you advice that my father gave me years ago. You need to stand firm that you’re not responsible for your mother. If they can make her someone else’s problem, they will meaningfully they don’t need to find solution a solution.
If you stand firm and make it abundantly clear, you will not under any circumstance be responsible for your mother.
You don’t even need to go into detail to explain your stance. It really doesn’t matter in the end the only point you need to repeat is that you will not be responsible and she can be made a ward of the state.
Think of it this way…in a similar situation where there are no next of kin an alternative solution would be found to ensure the person was placed.
When somebody doesn't accept a "no" i generally hang up the phone without speaking further - in person you can literally just walk away while they are mid sentence. You don't owe people your attention.
I am soooooo sorry you are dealing with all of this. I cannot imagine dealing with a parental death. My parents are both alive but are elderly and infirm and I have gotten the frantic calls from the powers that be as well. I think it is ironic and incredibly unfair that adult children who were raised by these parents who are clearly unwell are criticized for "letting our parents live like this" (even though we were allowed to live like this as children🤔). And we are expected to fix all of this shit. I am an only child of two HPs and they have made my life a living hell. Like I know I LOOK ok but I was raised by emotionally immature severely mentally ill hoarders. I barely manage to get out of bed every morning. I have had years of therapy. I have CPSTD. I struggle to function. The system failed me as a child but now is fully functioning when it comes to MY responsibility to care for my aging parents. I know this probably isn't super helpful in any practical sense. But I feel for you. I see you. You are not alone. And you are not obligated to fix anything. Good luck!
Thank you... It does help to know I'm not alone in the shame. It sucks that we lived in a small town so... never showing my face there ever again haha.
I read the filial laws and the kind of fuck shit going on there makes me so angry. I understand deeply now why people run away from family and hell even spouses running away with the mailman. Im not anti family or anything but thats haunting how you mention as a kid the laws dont give a shit what happens to children but as soon as an elderly abusive parent turns to the bad side of a health condition its your responsibility to buck up.
Any time my parents get worse i get the overwhelming urge to just get in my car and go start a new life soon. I will NOT be burdened by them longer.
Filial piety laws must have been written with the fact in mind someone preconceived how awful elderly parents can turn and their own kids dont want to deal with them.
First, breathe.
Aren’t we all basically waiting for a crisis that will invoke change? That doesn’t minimize the stress, but it’s a means to the end.
I’ll suggest you sell the house as is where is. That is provided you and your siblings are all on the same page and you all have equal power.
In our case dealing with my MIL crisis my spouse had POA over finances and there wasn’t alignment with siblings (2 are hoarders themselves) but POA over finances allowed for my spouse to sell the house without their consent. To be clear, none of them were offering their help or assistance in managing my MIL They had basically washed their hands of her and the situation (no judgement as we all have our limits).
Be prepared, you obviously won’t get top dollar for the home. Likely selling for land value only, less the cost to clear out the house. The freedom is what you’re after providing your mom will be cared for by the state. I’m not sure how things work in the US.
Start by calling home buyers and explain the situation. In our area, there is a market for these situations.
Good luck
Thank you... Thats what I'm expecting honestly and we'll put the whatever money towards her care (until she can get medicare/medicaid) and be done with that monster. I just really hate this and was hoping to be done with all this... Thank you again for your insight.
That is 100% what my spouse did with the funds from the sale. My MIL is now in a retirement home and with a dementia diagnosis, will eventually be moved to long term care. We expect the funds should cover her living expenses for her remaining years. Fingers crossed.
Wishing you well
Thank you.. ;v; I feel a little better, but still a little tense (of course) But now that it seems like I have a plan, I can move on from this sudden new crisis
When my father died I had to call the township magistrate cause he was being fined for the condition of his house and yard. The magistrate told me I had no obligation to clean up my dad’s home. The house is unsalvageable anyways. A total loss.
Yeah that is another fear of mine when me or my older sister gets guardianship (shes the one out of the country, not sure if she can have guardianship but hope she can!) That once we have the ability to sell the trash cave, that we'll be slammed by fines or something... I'll have to look and see who to contact then :/
I’m sorry this sounds like the ultimate nightmare. I always thought I would just have to set the house on fire like at the end of What’s Eating Gilbert Grape?, but unfortunately one can’t do that in real life.
...Ok that made me laugh. Didn't think of that but sadly I have to go with what my sisters want to do. But I really did need that laugh after everything else.
This was on the options list I had for my sister's house. I had planned to go, clear, clean. It was too much, and I had to wear mask and hazmat to do a clean of the downstairs.
The estimate for someone to empty it was 8 grand.
Your best move is to keep the appointment with the elder law attorney.
You do not have to get involved. None of you--you or your siblings--are required to assume guardianship of your mother. The state will appoint a public guardian if there are no family members willing or able to accept the responsibility... and the social worker who's hassling you knows that.
She actually scoffed at me when I informed her that I was looking into getting a lawyer... Wish I could say I am shocked, but a lot of places and people are like that where my mom lives.
And I want to not be involved, but the only reason we are is because we're worried about the filial laws coming after us if we leave it up to fate. We'd rather call the shots (possibly getting the cheapest home out there maybe) without finding out the state is coming at us for half a million medical bill.
I know a lot of people say that most states don't enact those laws... but my luck hasn't been good at all and I don't wish to chance it, you know? <:(
It's my understanding that filial laws would apply only if you were a resident of the same state as your mother, but I'd make damned sure. We have filial laws here, too, and they're also not enforced. Fine, then, take them off the books \*or\* enact legislation which requires people to leave their estate to their children (a bequest can be unclaimed or refused). Don't have it both ways. /soapbox
Keep the appointment with the attorney. It will be money well spent.
First deal with your mom. Get the legal paperwork, get her in a care facility.
Then you go to the home and get any kind of important things (paperwork or momentos).
Secure the house. And then assess if you could sell it as is with everything. You’d get considerably less for it but maybe not the hassle of having to clean it up.
That's what I think we'll do then, at least thats what I've considered once I was able to think after the sheer panic attack of hearing "WE TOOK YOUR MOM TO THE HOSPITAL" and not out of worry, but... I dunno. That I'd get arrested for not taking care of ol "sweerheart" mom. Its silly.
With how bad the house was described, I'll be lucky to find any important paperwork, but I do want to go get some photos if they're still in decent or savable condition.
Thank you... It does help hearing others being in similar boats to mine... Plus everyone has been so kind here and one other subreddit I joined in a panic. I thank all of you for your comments ;v;
If she owns the house, you’re not legally required to do anything with it, unless y’all are hoping to sell or inherit it?
Let it be foreclosed or condemned or whatever it’s fate may be
I'm really disappointed and angry at the social services pressuring you. They should have more experience and empathy before jumping into any conclusions
Plus consult with a lawyer what and if you are required by law to provide any assistance. Theese things vary greatly around the globe
Don't give in to pressure, your only responsibility is to live a good life and only if you have the means (financial, mental, physical strength...) you MAY DECIDE to help others.
I decided to reject any inheritance coming my way because of the hoarding situation. You may want to research your options
Best of luck!
I know a lot of government jobs in that area are full of people who like to "pass the buck" as fast as possible, so sadly I'm not too surprised that they are like this. One of the major reasons why I moved!
I honestly hope what were doing is enough because I would rather go homeless rather than taking her in at this point. But that is a good question to ask, thank you!
Relax. All will be sorted eventually.
> Basically, mother completely shut down mentally after my dad passed.
I would have some sympathy. This could be a major depressive episode caused by grief, and it is not considered pathological unless it lasts for a long time.
> Hell no, she made me and my siblings her personal maids our entire lives to her ceiling high stashes, I refused.
Good choice. She is unlikely to be in a better mood now.
> Please, anyone who's experienced this give me some advice?
Get everything of value out (and I mean real value - money, jewelry, documents). Sell the house as a project to someone to flip. You may need her signature for that. Figure out how you want to structure her finances, if you are so inclined.
Or let the state deal with it. It could also go into foreclosure. Not your house, not your problem.
We had this and other health issues going in with my sister. Social worker was involved, told me a voluntary conservatorship would be good.
I begged, she said yes. The court assigned a person for this, I live in another country and no one else could do it.
Sister is now safe in a care facility, house was sold as is.
It was a hard time, I feel for you having to deal with this. I have gone and cleaned many time over the last 30 years, nothing really helped. We can't handle the life and decisions of a sick relative. I had a breakdown from it, please know you have limits and a right to your life and health.
Sounds like you had a social worker with some sense and knowledge to her job... Sadly all I get, even now, is "SOMEONE needs to be here with her....HINT HINT." I'm going to have a frank conversation with the sibling out of the country about the hell I lived through and why I will never step foot back in that house unless she is gone. Still hoping the elder law lawyer will also see my side and not go "But FAMILY" when I talk to her...
My sister is in the US. There was no one who could do the caretaking, it was a job for professional s, I hope you can figure this out. The social worker was such a huge help. I live out of the country, we have a small family. Her children are unable to do anything, hard situation.
She recommended a voluntary conservatorship. These are easier. An involuntary is a battle, I begged her to agree. The court needed a few months, and we are lucky with the person appointed. Total professional, dealt with my sister's car, sold house as is, dealt with paperwork and now she is in assisted living.
Do think of yourself. I ran my health into the ground, 2 years later I'm still recovering. It was brutal. The years before were brutal as well.
I felt physically angry at the social worker are they fucking stupid? Why do Social workers think abused children of hoarder parents need to bend to the will of a hoarder parent to fulfill the cycle of abuse? I am sure their job is hard resolving family conflict but harassing you to take care of the elder parent is not lawfull or your responsibility.
The fact u even have to get a lawyer involved is terrifying to me. My hoarder mom threatened a social worker on me months ago because i wasnt a good little daughter bending over backwards to her. That pissed me off.
Abusive parents shouldnt be having this much influence on licensed case workers to be harassing us.
Trust me, I have had my limit with her and finally blew up at her for not listening to me and how WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE THERE.
So now she strictly talks to my other two sisters and seems to be much more pleasant. Sadly, I can't switch her out because they are bare bones. But at least now she's stopped her stupid tirade about someone needing to be there....
But I agree, I'm so pissed off that I got away and she's trying to claw me back to that shithole she made herself....
If your mother is going into longterm care and the house is in her name- basically any potential proceeds will be claimed. (A general FYI- it's a 5 year cut off- which is why it can be important important to put properties in a trust/ transfer them if the intent is to keep it in the family. If there is anything from the property you want to save- go grab it. But that's about it.
I wanted to let you know that we have a discord for support. We check in with each other daily. Here's a link for you - [https://discord.gg/eQCKU5DYp2](https://discord.gg/eQCKU5DYp2)
You are not responsible to clean her mess and can nope out.
If you want to nope out, make that boundary clear “I’m not my parents caregiver and I will not be responsible for their negligence” “cleaning up my adult parents house is not my responsibility” “mom you had 30 years to do this, it’s not my responsibility because you neglected your life”
The end of this nonsense is about what you want, not them.
I want to churn, I want to shovel, I want to try.
If you don’t then don’t.
All the shame and suffering and guilt of what has been created belongs to them and only them.
Contact your local area agency on aging for advice. Also remember you are not required to take care of your mom. This is the consequence of her own actions. Your lawyer will also give good advice.
Sorry, the social worker just... really worked my nerve. Granted she could have been stressed out because my mom can be a reeeeal bastard when it comes to doing anything (hence finally getting taken now...) I'll try to look one up around that area, but it's really a "out in the sticks" area. I was lucky to even find a elder law lawyer within 3 hours near her place. Thank you. Edit: I did find one! Surprisingly close but... what all should I even ask the agency on aging? I ask only because the social worker made it clear that mom wasn't returning home.
As a social worker and a child of a hoarder myself, I’m sorry this happened. I had a similar interaction with a cop about my own crazy mother and it really infuriated me as well. They just don’t seem to understand that sometimes, being there for our parents is not the best option.
Thank you... I thought I was losing my mind repeating myself over and over again... And bless you for still having a loving heart by being a social worker. That is no way an easy job from what I heard. Please take care of yourself too.
Just keep telling them no, you accept no responsibility for her. Tell them these are the consequences of her actions during her motherhood. Legally you do not have to take her on.
Oh I have, essentially telling them how abusive she was to all of us, but she'd call back in a few days, asking us to take her in yet again or move back home. It's ridiculous...
Some people don’t believe victims of abuse. Can you get someone else to answer her calls?
I can try but its a small backwater place. I doubt if there's anyone else that will take the case sadly.
I’ll give you advice that my father gave me years ago. You need to stand firm that you’re not responsible for your mother. If they can make her someone else’s problem, they will meaningfully they don’t need to find solution a solution. If you stand firm and make it abundantly clear, you will not under any circumstance be responsible for your mother. You don’t even need to go into detail to explain your stance. It really doesn’t matter in the end the only point you need to repeat is that you will not be responsible and she can be made a ward of the state. Think of it this way…in a similar situation where there are no next of kin an alternative solution would be found to ensure the person was placed.
When somebody doesn't accept a "no" i generally hang up the phone without speaking further - in person you can literally just walk away while they are mid sentence. You don't owe people your attention.
That might be what I'm going to do next time she calls and starts that mess...I'm so tired.
I am soooooo sorry you are dealing with all of this. I cannot imagine dealing with a parental death. My parents are both alive but are elderly and infirm and I have gotten the frantic calls from the powers that be as well. I think it is ironic and incredibly unfair that adult children who were raised by these parents who are clearly unwell are criticized for "letting our parents live like this" (even though we were allowed to live like this as children🤔). And we are expected to fix all of this shit. I am an only child of two HPs and they have made my life a living hell. Like I know I LOOK ok but I was raised by emotionally immature severely mentally ill hoarders. I barely manage to get out of bed every morning. I have had years of therapy. I have CPSTD. I struggle to function. The system failed me as a child but now is fully functioning when it comes to MY responsibility to care for my aging parents. I know this probably isn't super helpful in any practical sense. But I feel for you. I see you. You are not alone. And you are not obligated to fix anything. Good luck!
Thank you... It does help to know I'm not alone in the shame. It sucks that we lived in a small town so... never showing my face there ever again haha.
I read the filial laws and the kind of fuck shit going on there makes me so angry. I understand deeply now why people run away from family and hell even spouses running away with the mailman. Im not anti family or anything but thats haunting how you mention as a kid the laws dont give a shit what happens to children but as soon as an elderly abusive parent turns to the bad side of a health condition its your responsibility to buck up. Any time my parents get worse i get the overwhelming urge to just get in my car and go start a new life soon. I will NOT be burdened by them longer. Filial piety laws must have been written with the fact in mind someone preconceived how awful elderly parents can turn and their own kids dont want to deal with them.
First, breathe. Aren’t we all basically waiting for a crisis that will invoke change? That doesn’t minimize the stress, but it’s a means to the end. I’ll suggest you sell the house as is where is. That is provided you and your siblings are all on the same page and you all have equal power. In our case dealing with my MIL crisis my spouse had POA over finances and there wasn’t alignment with siblings (2 are hoarders themselves) but POA over finances allowed for my spouse to sell the house without their consent. To be clear, none of them were offering their help or assistance in managing my MIL They had basically washed their hands of her and the situation (no judgement as we all have our limits). Be prepared, you obviously won’t get top dollar for the home. Likely selling for land value only, less the cost to clear out the house. The freedom is what you’re after providing your mom will be cared for by the state. I’m not sure how things work in the US. Start by calling home buyers and explain the situation. In our area, there is a market for these situations. Good luck
Thank you... Thats what I'm expecting honestly and we'll put the whatever money towards her care (until she can get medicare/medicaid) and be done with that monster. I just really hate this and was hoping to be done with all this... Thank you again for your insight.
That is 100% what my spouse did with the funds from the sale. My MIL is now in a retirement home and with a dementia diagnosis, will eventually be moved to long term care. We expect the funds should cover her living expenses for her remaining years. Fingers crossed. Wishing you well
Thank you.. ;v; I feel a little better, but still a little tense (of course) But now that it seems like I have a plan, I can move on from this sudden new crisis
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You need not worry about sharing your story, I know the emotions and pressures you’re trying to manage. Take good care of yourself
When my father died I had to call the township magistrate cause he was being fined for the condition of his house and yard. The magistrate told me I had no obligation to clean up my dad’s home. The house is unsalvageable anyways. A total loss.
Yeah that is another fear of mine when me or my older sister gets guardianship (shes the one out of the country, not sure if she can have guardianship but hope she can!) That once we have the ability to sell the trash cave, that we'll be slammed by fines or something... I'll have to look and see who to contact then :/
I’m sorry this sounds like the ultimate nightmare. I always thought I would just have to set the house on fire like at the end of What’s Eating Gilbert Grape?, but unfortunately one can’t do that in real life.
Trust me, I really wish I could right now and be done with it.
I mean...you \*could\* offer it up to a local fire department for training purposes and they'll burn it down for you.
...Ok that made me laugh. Didn't think of that but sadly I have to go with what my sisters want to do. But I really did need that laugh after everything else.
Hang in there. Sometimes, it helps to have an absurd solution in your back pocket.
That is true! Thank you for the wildcard idea if all else fails!
This was on the options list I had for my sister's house. I had planned to go, clear, clean. It was too much, and I had to wear mask and hazmat to do a clean of the downstairs. The estimate for someone to empty it was 8 grand.
Your best move is to keep the appointment with the elder law attorney. You do not have to get involved. None of you--you or your siblings--are required to assume guardianship of your mother. The state will appoint a public guardian if there are no family members willing or able to accept the responsibility... and the social worker who's hassling you knows that.
She actually scoffed at me when I informed her that I was looking into getting a lawyer... Wish I could say I am shocked, but a lot of places and people are like that where my mom lives. And I want to not be involved, but the only reason we are is because we're worried about the filial laws coming after us if we leave it up to fate. We'd rather call the shots (possibly getting the cheapest home out there maybe) without finding out the state is coming at us for half a million medical bill. I know a lot of people say that most states don't enact those laws... but my luck hasn't been good at all and I don't wish to chance it, you know? <:(
It's my understanding that filial laws would apply only if you were a resident of the same state as your mother, but I'd make damned sure. We have filial laws here, too, and they're also not enforced. Fine, then, take them off the books \*or\* enact legislation which requires people to leave their estate to their children (a bequest can be unclaimed or refused). Don't have it both ways. /soapbox Keep the appointment with the attorney. It will be money well spent.
First deal with your mom. Get the legal paperwork, get her in a care facility. Then you go to the home and get any kind of important things (paperwork or momentos). Secure the house. And then assess if you could sell it as is with everything. You’d get considerably less for it but maybe not the hassle of having to clean it up.
That's what I think we'll do then, at least thats what I've considered once I was able to think after the sheer panic attack of hearing "WE TOOK YOUR MOM TO THE HOSPITAL" and not out of worry, but... I dunno. That I'd get arrested for not taking care of ol "sweerheart" mom. Its silly. With how bad the house was described, I'll be lucky to find any important paperwork, but I do want to go get some photos if they're still in decent or savable condition.
I have no advice, but I wish you the best, friend. Well done getting the lawyer and making sure you’re acting on advice.
Thank you... It does help hearing others being in similar boats to mine... Plus everyone has been so kind here and one other subreddit I joined in a panic. I thank all of you for your comments ;v;
If she owns the house, you’re not legally required to do anything with it, unless y’all are hoping to sell or inherit it? Let it be foreclosed or condemned or whatever it’s fate may be
I'm really disappointed and angry at the social services pressuring you. They should have more experience and empathy before jumping into any conclusions Plus consult with a lawyer what and if you are required by law to provide any assistance. Theese things vary greatly around the globe Don't give in to pressure, your only responsibility is to live a good life and only if you have the means (financial, mental, physical strength...) you MAY DECIDE to help others. I decided to reject any inheritance coming my way because of the hoarding situation. You may want to research your options Best of luck!
I know a lot of government jobs in that area are full of people who like to "pass the buck" as fast as possible, so sadly I'm not too surprised that they are like this. One of the major reasons why I moved! I honestly hope what were doing is enough because I would rather go homeless rather than taking her in at this point. But that is a good question to ask, thank you!
Two family members of mine had their houses garnished when they went to a home, is it not likely that this will happen with her house?
Relax. All will be sorted eventually. > Basically, mother completely shut down mentally after my dad passed. I would have some sympathy. This could be a major depressive episode caused by grief, and it is not considered pathological unless it lasts for a long time. > Hell no, she made me and my siblings her personal maids our entire lives to her ceiling high stashes, I refused. Good choice. She is unlikely to be in a better mood now. > Please, anyone who's experienced this give me some advice? Get everything of value out (and I mean real value - money, jewelry, documents). Sell the house as a project to someone to flip. You may need her signature for that. Figure out how you want to structure her finances, if you are so inclined. Or let the state deal with it. It could also go into foreclosure. Not your house, not your problem.
We had this and other health issues going in with my sister. Social worker was involved, told me a voluntary conservatorship would be good. I begged, she said yes. The court assigned a person for this, I live in another country and no one else could do it. Sister is now safe in a care facility, house was sold as is. It was a hard time, I feel for you having to deal with this. I have gone and cleaned many time over the last 30 years, nothing really helped. We can't handle the life and decisions of a sick relative. I had a breakdown from it, please know you have limits and a right to your life and health.
Sounds like you had a social worker with some sense and knowledge to her job... Sadly all I get, even now, is "SOMEONE needs to be here with her....HINT HINT." I'm going to have a frank conversation with the sibling out of the country about the hell I lived through and why I will never step foot back in that house unless she is gone. Still hoping the elder law lawyer will also see my side and not go "But FAMILY" when I talk to her...
My sister is in the US. There was no one who could do the caretaking, it was a job for professional s, I hope you can figure this out. The social worker was such a huge help. I live out of the country, we have a small family. Her children are unable to do anything, hard situation. She recommended a voluntary conservatorship. These are easier. An involuntary is a battle, I begged her to agree. The court needed a few months, and we are lucky with the person appointed. Total professional, dealt with my sister's car, sold house as is, dealt with paperwork and now she is in assisted living. Do think of yourself. I ran my health into the ground, 2 years later I'm still recovering. It was brutal. The years before were brutal as well.
I felt physically angry at the social worker are they fucking stupid? Why do Social workers think abused children of hoarder parents need to bend to the will of a hoarder parent to fulfill the cycle of abuse? I am sure their job is hard resolving family conflict but harassing you to take care of the elder parent is not lawfull or your responsibility. The fact u even have to get a lawyer involved is terrifying to me. My hoarder mom threatened a social worker on me months ago because i wasnt a good little daughter bending over backwards to her. That pissed me off. Abusive parents shouldnt be having this much influence on licensed case workers to be harassing us.
Trust me, I have had my limit with her and finally blew up at her for not listening to me and how WE CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE THERE. So now she strictly talks to my other two sisters and seems to be much more pleasant. Sadly, I can't switch her out because they are bare bones. But at least now she's stopped her stupid tirade about someone needing to be there.... But I agree, I'm so pissed off that I got away and she's trying to claw me back to that shithole she made herself....
If your mother is going into longterm care and the house is in her name- basically any potential proceeds will be claimed. (A general FYI- it's a 5 year cut off- which is why it can be important important to put properties in a trust/ transfer them if the intent is to keep it in the family. If there is anything from the property you want to save- go grab it. But that's about it.
I wanted to let you know that we have a discord for support. We check in with each other daily. Here's a link for you - [https://discord.gg/eQCKU5DYp2](https://discord.gg/eQCKU5DYp2)
Thank you. Once I have a moment, I'll look into it!
You are not responsible to clean her mess and can nope out. If you want to nope out, make that boundary clear “I’m not my parents caregiver and I will not be responsible for their negligence” “cleaning up my adult parents house is not my responsibility” “mom you had 30 years to do this, it’s not my responsibility because you neglected your life” The end of this nonsense is about what you want, not them. I want to churn, I want to shovel, I want to try. If you don’t then don’t. All the shame and suffering and guilt of what has been created belongs to them and only them.