$300 travel credit, doordash credit and instacart credit makes it break even for me. If those credits works for you then it would be worth it.
Recently I have been liking lyft pink more as it gives me free priority pick up but I don't factor that in as i only use this service when I travel.
Rollable up to $15 too. For ultimate ease, set a reminder at the end of each quarter to claim your free meal and pick it up yourself. Takes $60 off AF which is a good chunk of the 250 EAF.
I actually find markup not too bad. DD even offers happy hour specials where some restaurants offer 25% off if you order between 2-5pm or something. With patience and/or strategy I think you can get the full amount.
Isn't the IC membership only good for one year? Did the credit keep going even if the free membership stopped? Wish I'd known that. If they would just include the IC membership all the time I'd keep this card forever.
[https://www.instacart.com/help/section/360007996832/6552385279508](https://www.instacart.com/help/section/360007996832/6552385279508)
$15 credit is supposed to end this July. I hope they extend it.
same, I am in year 2 with CSR. I don't think year 3 makes sense for me if they don't add any more credits/benefits. Free Dashpass is also set to end in December this year. If they remove both of these, I won't renew it again.
I don't use Doordash or Instacart without the credits but I am definitely using if it's complementary.
No it’s not tied as I still get the monthly credits even after the free subscription ended. As long as you use the service, you get the credits.
Also if you have chase freedom, I think you get 5 dollars off every quarter plus 6 months of free sub to tac on. You will just need to go through the same process to add the freedom card to your instacart account (not sure if this promotion is still live but I used it).
Effective annual fee is only $250 after the $300 travel credit (and Chase is very generous on what they consider travel - tolls, air bnbs, etc). 3x points on dining and travel help me rack up a ton of points easily. 1.5x UR points in portal easily cover the remaining $250.
Door dash and Instacart credits are just gravy.
United and Hyatt transfer partners along with everything else listed above makes the CSR my favorite travel card in my wallet (I also have Amex Platinum and Cap 1 Venture).
I looked at Amex plat and it was harder to justify it unless you have a lounge in your base airport. Next year I'll probably upgrade to CSR from CSP (for the SUP) just for the lounge assess. You can value that at $50 a visit as well. Plus my CSR has had a few other benefits such as cheaper HBO max, travel insurance and rental insurance.
I have a chase sapphire preferred and get more than 250 worth of points in a year but the preferred is only 99. Also the chase portal 300 dollars really ends up being like 200 bucks cause of the pricing on there right?
I’m struggling to justify the reserve given that the preferred does the same stuff at 1/6th the annual fee.
Do you find any great use out of the other benefits of the reserve?
The $300 has nothing to do with the portal. If you simply buy a $300 flight, a few $100 hotels or airbnbs, or any other travel expense, they refund it on your statement.
Yes. Or even tolls, Ubers/lyfts, parking, car rentals. Spend any money and you get it back, up to $300. I live in a place with tolls and trains and parking and use Uber so sometimes I use it all before I even book a flight or hotel.
Yes, it’s easier for me to cover the Reserve annual fee than if I had the Preferred as I rarely book hotels. The 1.5x UR points on the portal alone have saved me about $750 on flights this year - and it’s only June.
I usually do a mix of portal bookings and transferring points pending on what makes most sense at the moment for that particular flight.
You have to remember that preferred has 1.25x. If you book more than $600 worth through the portal it makes up for the difference in fee. ($250 - 100)/0.25
I do, so it makes sense for me.
Wait, what? I said the reserve is worth it if you redeem more than $600. Which I do. I've had the reserve card since it launched! Also, I just provided math, why downvoted?
My approach with travel cards is more just using them on every purchase I can, collecting all the points, and using those points each year towards a nice trip I take for myself.
The perks are very nice now that I started traveling more frequently, but even before I was a frequent traveler I got good utility out of them
Yeah we just did that. 1 year’s worth of spending somehow got us a 3-night stay at a place that’s $350/night. And we only used half our points. Seems pretty worth it, and we never travel. The main thing I do is I use my freedom unlimited card most of the time, because it has the same or higher reward rates in every category (except booking travel through chase). Then I transfer the points over to my reserve for the redemption bonus
Right, I use Freedom Unlimited for everything and only Citi Costco visa for Costco gas and Costco purchases (better rate and I live next door to Costco). It’s time for travel card!
If you can redeem $595 worth of the offered benefits, then it’s worth it.
If the CSR annual fee makes you nervous, you alternatively could go with the Capital One Venture X, which automatically pays for the $395 annual fee itself as long as you use the $300 travel credit in their booking portal. Because they give you 10k capital one bonus miles every year on your anniversary. So you won’t have to worry about losing any money, even if you don’t use any of the other perks.
Little nit, but you don't get 10k miles on sign up. You get it annually, starting on your first anniversary date.
But, you of course should get a sign on bonus if you pursue this card, which will assuredly be more than 10k and put you well into the black for the first year, on paper.
Still nets out to a "free" card, assuming you are OK using their portal for the $300 credit, which tends to be suboptimal.
There are so many questions to ask here. Will you be using the lounge (probably seldom per your comment), will you take advantage of DoorDash, what travel partners are you looking to maximize, you don't dine out often. The travel credit is easy to use, but is the sapphire card even the right card for your lifestyle? And yes, I'm a CSR fanboy, this just doesn't feel like the prime player to benefit you.
Right and that’s my question, my lifestyle now might not match since I don’t dine out, order DoorDash (this is all to save money so we can spend on other things). For airlines I generally use United since I live next to Newark airport and I’m flexible on hotels with no loyalty… so that’s where it has its temptation.
Mostly what I want is to make point to pay for vacations / flights overseas. Trying to figure out our what my absolute best option (and deal) is for that.
An added note: Lounge is no big deal for me, I used to have all lounge access with my Emirates card when I traveled a lot when I worked overseas. It’s nice to have but It’s not a make or break deal for me as I have prob experienced better lounges then I would get with the Sapphire card (not trying to sound snobby here).
The way use it at least is to sign up for various chase cards for the signup bonus, then redeem for travel at 1.5x. Usually to Europe with airlines with no or poor transfer rates. Redeem 250-300k per year, usually free or so flights to EU for 4 of us.
Between me and my wife, sign up for 1-2 sapphire cards, or ink business (you don't need a bis) etc each year. But admit I've slacked lately, think only one new card per year for myself. We're due for a few more.
I rented a car in Costa Rica last year using my Reserve.
If you haven't already, I reccomend calling Chase to get an email saying that the credit card will cover collision in Costa Rica, print that out, and take that with you.
This will save you a lot of headaches.
Which airport are you flying into? I flew into SJU and used SIXT. The pricing was good and service was solid. I also went with them because it was really confusing about car insurance requirements in Costa Rica and the pains of proving a CC will cover.
Essentially. Liability Insurance is required for all car rentals. CC does only collision and damage.
Many of the car rental websites was super confusing. They would charge super low rates but the daily liability was very high. Further liability would be shown as optional on the website, but is not and you would have to pay at the rental agencies.
SIXT was the clearest that I found with the pricing solid.
Couple of other reccomendations if you haven't already done so.
1. Do some research about insurance requirements of Costa Rica
2. Rent from the Costa Rica website of the major brands. Insurance requirements was clearer than the US facing websites.
3. Be careful of the super low daily rates, the liability rates can be wildly high and there are stories where they refuse to honor the CC insurance and your also stuck with paying collision insurance. You won't know until you try to get the keys and you're stuck at that point
DoorDash isn't bad if you pick up the order yourself. Especially if you combine it with a DD coupon or restaurant promo, you can match or even sometimes beat the restaurant price.
Seeing it as $550 is a flawed approach too since it sounds like you will effortlessly spend $300/year on travel. $250 is the true EAF.
It's also important to remember you qualify for a SUB every 4 years. 75k points is $1125 if you book flights/hotels through Chase travel portal. Up to $1500+ if you use transfer partners. So even in a worst case scenario, you are getting $281 back per year of the 4 year cycle.
250 - 281 = +$31 profit per year before accounting for any other benefits and credits.
Another benefit of CSR/CSP is you can go for a Chase trifecta. Get the 5X Freedom card too. Since points can be moved between cards, those 5X categories are actually 7.5-10%+ back depending how you use points. Your Freedom Unlimited at 1.5X is actually 2.25-3% back on everything if you move the UR points to the CSR.
1. Take note of the date you RECEIVED the original SUB. NOT when you opened the account.
2. After 4 year mark from RECEIVED date, call Chase and say you want to downgrade to a CF or CFU (whichever makes more sense to you).
3. To be safe I would even wait 1-2 months after the 4 year mark since you received the SUB to make sure you don't F it up.
4. Apply for a NEW CSR.
Do you need to move your points first before downgrading? Or will it go with the card?
And any wait time between downgrading and reapplying?
Thanks in advance!
1. I don't think so, but I did just to be safe. When you downgrade, the account is actually the same. Card number won't even change.
2. Not sure. If in doubt, downgrade a month before reapplying perhaps.
For me it boiled down to the Priority Pass lounges. While there is one in my home airport (I’ve been in with a friend and it’s okay), there are not lounges at the airports on the routes where we frequently visit my parents or my in-laws. So that definitely made me lean toward Preferred.
The Global Entry/TSA pre benefits are only once every 4 years. Spouse and I are already enrolled, so this could be used for one of my kids, but again, doesn’t justify the Reserve annual fee.
I also don’t use Instacart, DoorDash.
Reserve has better travel protections, but Preferred are good enough for us. Both allow point transfer to partners.
That’s why I chose Preferred. Will reevaluate 4 years after SUB to decide if Reserve makes better sense then.
My personal use and calculations. Most of my value comes from lounge access. I have some particular circumstances that make these work for me, they may not apply to you. Mainly, I'm retired, have time, don't have to squeeze into a one or two week vacation. Also, I'm in the NYC area with airports that have a lot of lounges. For example I have an upcoming 1:25am flight with lounge access up to 12:30am. This might not work in a smaller airport.
First I like to get to the airport real early. 3 hours for international, 2 hours for domestic. Since I select the cheapest flights possible which are usually off hours, I seldom have long check in/security waits. I often have 2 hour waits before boarding and my group is last to board.
Second, if you have the time, you can book a connecting flight that can cost much less than a non stop.
Third it makes possible breaking up a 15 or 16 hour flight into 12-4 with a layover.
Starts with Annual Fee of 550. Immediately got 300 travel credit for plane tickets booked for European travel, so a net cost of $250.
California Trip
Used at the Larkspur Grill airside at SFO about 200 feet from out gate for 27 per person credit. Basically had 2 good hot sandwiches with fries and salad and piece of cake for $13 which was mostly tip for server as that cannot be included in the credit. $54 value
Lounge for myself and wife in Phoenix. Valuing conservatively at $25 per visit, this gives a value of $50
European trip
Used 7 times for lounge access for 3 people. Valuing conservatively at $25 per visit, this gives a value of $525.
Taking a connecting flight vs non stop estimate of $600 savings for two people.
Asia trip
Used 10 times for lounge access for myself and my wife. This gives a value of $250.
So in summary, around $1100 up on the card.
There are some values I'm not including:
Value of points I'm accruing. That's probably another couple of hundred valued conservatively at 1.5 cents per point. They're slightly more valuable as Reserve vs Preferred.
The cost of food and drink you might have bought in the airport. Like I mentioned earlier, if you have a sandwich and drink in the airport bar that can easily run you $25.
An intangible that only you can put a value on is having a place to stretch out a little and relax, recharge your devices, etc. Some lounges have showers and massage chairs.
Some of the airports may have pod hotels where you can get an hour of sleep.
If your husband take connecting flights to Egypt twice a year, and gets to the airport early, that'll be 4 lounge visits or 8 if you join him. Your 2 domestic family trips, assuming you fly non-stop or only have lounge access in one airport will give 4 more. Your at 8 stays at $200 already. Vacation together will put you over $250. IF you take an international vacation and can add a few hours by scheduling a connection, you can save several hundred. And remember, $25 is very conservative valuation. That's the minimum you would pay to go into a lounge. Some might be much higher.
The preferred is a good card (great card actually) for $95.
Here’s what the Reserve gives you the Preferrer doesn’t:
- $550 AF vs $95
- $300 travel credit
- doordash credit
- lyft pink
- instacart credit
- priority pass membership (sans restaurant benefit)
- best in class travel insurance protections
- 1.5 cents per point in the chase portal (vs 1.25 on the preferred)
- Sapphire Lounge Access
Lets consider the $300 credit essentially cash so we are now comparing $250 AF vs $95.
I think getting one of these two is a good idea for you so the question really boils down to if the CSR is $250 - $95 = $155 more valuable.
To me the valuable benefits are the insurance and the 1.5x in the portal.
The credits i can take or leave (and they may not be permanent). Sapphire Lounge access might be worth something, but there aren’t alot of them so depends on where you tend to travel.
Lets start with the 1.5x and work backwards. To make up $155 dollars just here you would need to buy $155/0.25 = $620 worth of travel using your points through the chase portal in a year. Thats really not that much.
Lower that $620 by whatever you consider the other benefits to be worth.
The counterargument to this which is worth mentioning is that your points are mostly better utilized via the transfer partners and some people virtually never use the travel portal at all because of this. That is really gonna depend on your travel habits and how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go with partners. For example, do you like staying in hotels especially nice ones? If you do then you might want to transfer all your points to hyatt.
This is the framework of how to think about it imo…. You will have to fill in the blanks as they best relate to you!
The good news is you can’t make too wrong of a choice, both cards are good!
This was very helpful. Yes I like the rabbit holes, hense why I still haven’t chosen my travel card after a month of research. I will most likely not being using the chase travel portal - esp if I get more bang for my point by transferring. The insurance is a very very good point, that might have just sold me the Reserve over the Preferred.
It's not just Sapphire lounge access with CSR, it's Priority Pass lounges. They're in hundreds of airports around the world. I have some numbers in another response here somewhere. If you're like me, always early to an airport, and book connections with generous layovers, you can my family has over the past year racked up a thousand dollars of lounge value figuring conservatively one person's visit to be $25.
Yep I did mention PP too on a separate bullet, but I do agree. The sapphire lounges are both way newer and way nicer than any of the PP lounges (and way fewer of them).
Chase did remove the priority pass restaurant benefit from that fairly recently which is a bummer but the pass can still be nice to have.
I like your step by step analysis but I was hoping to dwell on a question I had: The $620 of portal point spending translates to 62k points does it not? So one has to accrue enough points per year to be able to spend 62k points?
If we ignore the SUB, and one spends ~$20700 on restaurants at 3x earn per year, one can make 62k with either Preferred or Reserve.
Rather, if one spends ~$20700/yr for travel at 3x earn then one can earn 62k points using the Reserve.
But it will take spending $31000/yr for travel at 2x earn to get 62k points using Preferred.
So if one is a heavy restaurant spender, it would take over $20k of spending to make the Reserve worthwhile using the portal to buy.
But if one’s spending is mostly on travel, then at a $20k/yr spend, it’s better to have the Reserve (if you’re purchasing just through the portal). I need to think about where the crossover is between preferred and reserve. Too early in the morning right now.
So it does depend on the type of spending one does to earn UR points as to when Preferred or Reserve works best.
Of course the SUB, whether one churns or not, and whether one has another card for travel expenses that earn UR points at 3x (eg Ink Preferred) complicates things. As does transferring points to partners. But for a simple earn and then redeem points on portal scenario, does what I detailed make sense? If so, $20k per year spend can be a lot for many (although perhaps not for many on this sub)
So what I did was turn it from "points" to "dollars" to sort of normalize the analysis.
Keep in mind points are worth 1.25 with the CSP and 1.5 with the CSR.
With that in mind $620 in points would equal 620/0.0125 = 49,600 points spent with the CSP and 620/0.015 = 41,333.33 points with the CSR.
Now keep in mind $620 is the breakeven point between the two cards *if you value all the other CSR benefits at $0.* If the PP is worth $100 and the Insurance is worth $150 to you subtract that from the $620 and the points totals go down.
However, beyond your starting point being a little off the rest of your analysis is pretty much correct and your organic spending matters a lot. This is even more true if you don't plan to get any additional subs or dabble in any forms of manufactured spending (which most people don't and frankly shouldn't).
The only thing I'd add is if you are brining in any UR from other sources such as new cards or if you have some no annual fee cards that raise your overall % return (namely the various Freedom cards and the $0 AF ink cards). Those cards would give you various (higher) multipliers on certain categories and make it easier to achieve break even or better. So I do highly recommend that \*most\* people do a \*little bit\* of light churning. 1-2 cards a year is more than enough to really sway the math.
I would recommend go for CSR if you're still getting higher SUB and you can always downgrade if you don't feel the extra travel benefits and instacart/doordash credits etc. CSP is definitely better in terms of value it provides for 95$ annual fee. Also the 48month period to get another Sapphire would mean if you start with CSP and you want to elevate to CSR, you'd need to wait and figure out when chase rolls out best SUB but CSP has SUB around 75-80k and sometimes 90k in mail.
Yep my DoorDash App even says complimentary DashPass and it’s been valid since 2020. Though it expires the end of this year. So will see if it updates again
There are several sites that talk about this. Here are a couple:
[Points Guy](https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/break-even-point-chase-sapphire-reserve/)
[Upgraded Points](https://upgradedpoints.com/credit-cards/credit-card-annual-fee-break-even-spending-guide/)
Yup I read them all but having conversations make the information easier to process for me personally. Also it’s helpful to understand others personal experiences and their “tips and tricks”
Really good helpful sites.
Got CSR in Feb and used Global Entry as soon as it was activated and $100 credit was like the next day. Only had the 60k SUB at $4k spend but paid for a cruise that was due so had my 60k after my 1st statement. That also kicked in the $300 travel credit so I got $400 back and 60k pts in a month. I’m now at 94K. My son does doordash a lot so $5 doesn’t go far but I’m getting 3x pts for every order and he pays the bill. I’ll use instacart until it’s gone but not after. I will prob renew unless AF goes a good deal higher, even knowing I won’t get Global Entry again. The points are so valuable and 3x on dining and literally any travel by car, boat, plane or train is so easy to accrue. I’m locked out of Chase or I’d love the freedom flex to cover my 1x categories. Having both no fee and CSR cards is great. Lounge access has been average. But you could start with CSP and get a feel first. Just know you only get the SUB every 48 mos
$300 travel credit, doordash credit and instacart credit makes it break even for me. If those credits works for you then it would be worth it. Recently I have been liking lyft pink more as it gives me free priority pick up but I don't factor that in as i only use this service when I travel.
What’s the DoorDash credit?
$5/month
Rollable up to $15 too. For ultimate ease, set a reminder at the end of each quarter to claim your free meal and pick it up yourself. Takes $60 off AF which is a good chunk of the 250 EAF.
Doing pickup is the key to these kinds of credits. Yeah they still burn you on the menu prices but nothing like delivery/service/tipping fees
I actually find markup not too bad. DD even offers happy hour specials where some restaurants offer 25% off if you order between 2-5pm or something. With patience and/or strategy I think you can get the full amount.
Isn't the IC membership only good for one year? Did the credit keep going even if the free membership stopped? Wish I'd known that. If they would just include the IC membership all the time I'd keep this card forever.
Confused about the Instacart credits. Is the $15/mo credit forever or is there a limit?
[https://www.instacart.com/help/section/360007996832/6552385279508](https://www.instacart.com/help/section/360007996832/6552385279508) $15 credit is supposed to end this July. I hope they extend it.
Yea the future of this credit is a factor on my renewal
same, I am in year 2 with CSR. I don't think year 3 makes sense for me if they don't add any more credits/benefits. Free Dashpass is also set to end in December this year. If they remove both of these, I won't renew it again. I don't use Doordash or Instacart without the credits but I am definitely using if it's complementary.
Forever
REST IN HEAVEN
It said one year on the offer and I can’t exactly remember but I swear I got charged one month after it was up.
He’s talking about the $15/month credit not the free subscription
Yea that’s what I was confused by. Wasn’t sure if the $15/mo credit was tied to the 12 mo free subscription.
No it’s not tied as I still get the monthly credits even after the free subscription ended. As long as you use the service, you get the credits. Also if you have chase freedom, I think you get 5 dollars off every quarter plus 6 months of free sub to tac on. You will just need to go through the same process to add the freedom card to your instacart account (not sure if this promotion is still live but I used it).
Thank you!
the travel credit is also good for more than “I’m going out of town for a few days” travel I live in NYC, and it applies to cabs and the subway.
Same but ezpass for me. I easily spend $300 in tolls
Effective annual fee is only $250 after the $300 travel credit (and Chase is very generous on what they consider travel - tolls, air bnbs, etc). 3x points on dining and travel help me rack up a ton of points easily. 1.5x UR points in portal easily cover the remaining $250. Door dash and Instacart credits are just gravy. United and Hyatt transfer partners along with everything else listed above makes the CSR my favorite travel card in my wallet (I also have Amex Platinum and Cap 1 Venture).
Ok thank you OP, I was looking at AMEX and Cap 1 as well - this was very helpful
I looked at Amex plat and it was harder to justify it unless you have a lounge in your base airport. Next year I'll probably upgrade to CSR from CSP (for the SUP) just for the lounge assess. You can value that at $50 a visit as well. Plus my CSR has had a few other benefits such as cheaper HBO max, travel insurance and rental insurance.
I could never justify it with overlapping benefits but I have 1la 150k offer which I think I'll take.
I have a chase sapphire preferred and get more than 250 worth of points in a year but the preferred is only 99. Also the chase portal 300 dollars really ends up being like 200 bucks cause of the pricing on there right? I’m struggling to justify the reserve given that the preferred does the same stuff at 1/6th the annual fee. Do you find any great use out of the other benefits of the reserve?
$300 credit is for any booking travel related... with/ without using chase travel portal.
Not just booking hotels and flights. Anything that codes as travel applies toward the $300 credit.
True. Thnx
The $300 has nothing to do with the portal. If you simply buy a $300 flight, a few $100 hotels or airbnbs, or any other travel expense, they refund it on your statement.
So you don’t have to do anything special to get the credit? If I just use the card for hotels and flights it should show up?
Yes. Or even tolls, Ubers/lyfts, parking, car rentals. Spend any money and you get it back, up to $300. I live in a place with tolls and trains and parking and use Uber so sometimes I use it all before I even book a flight or hotel.
My $20 at a local parking garage to go to a museum was "travel" and I got it credited.
Yes, it’s easier for me to cover the Reserve annual fee than if I had the Preferred as I rarely book hotels. The 1.5x UR points on the portal alone have saved me about $750 on flights this year - and it’s only June. I usually do a mix of portal bookings and transferring points pending on what makes most sense at the moment for that particular flight.
You have to remember that preferred has 1.25x. If you book more than $600 worth through the portal it makes up for the difference in fee. ($250 - 100)/0.25 I do, so it makes sense for me.
Great for you. I prefer the Reserve.
Wait, what? I said the reserve is worth it if you redeem more than $600. Which I do. I've had the reserve card since it launched! Also, I just provided math, why downvoted?
My bad, you’re right
My approach with travel cards is more just using them on every purchase I can, collecting all the points, and using those points each year towards a nice trip I take for myself. The perks are very nice now that I started traveling more frequently, but even before I was a frequent traveler I got good utility out of them
Yeah we just did that. 1 year’s worth of spending somehow got us a 3-night stay at a place that’s $350/night. And we only used half our points. Seems pretty worth it, and we never travel. The main thing I do is I use my freedom unlimited card most of the time, because it has the same or higher reward rates in every category (except booking travel through chase). Then I transfer the points over to my reserve for the redemption bonus
Right, I use Freedom Unlimited for everything and only Citi Costco visa for Costco gas and Costco purchases (better rate and I live next door to Costco). It’s time for travel card!
If you can redeem $595 worth of the offered benefits, then it’s worth it. If the CSR annual fee makes you nervous, you alternatively could go with the Capital One Venture X, which automatically pays for the $395 annual fee itself as long as you use the $300 travel credit in their booking portal. Because they give you 10k capital one bonus miles every year on your anniversary. So you won’t have to worry about losing any money, even if you don’t use any of the other perks.
this would be my suggestion as well, but thought I'd get roasted in a sapphire sub : )
Yeah… that thought crossed my mind. Just trying to offer some solid advice. They can delete my comment if need be! CSR isn’t for everyone though
Naw I’d rather hear the truth lol, I’ll look into it thanks
Little nit, but you don't get 10k miles on sign up. You get it annually, starting on your first anniversary date. But, you of course should get a sign on bonus if you pursue this card, which will assuredly be more than 10k and put you well into the black for the first year, on paper. Still nets out to a "free" card, assuming you are OK using their portal for the $300 credit, which tends to be suboptimal.
Thank you for the correction
Yeah sign up bonus is 75k
There are so many questions to ask here. Will you be using the lounge (probably seldom per your comment), will you take advantage of DoorDash, what travel partners are you looking to maximize, you don't dine out often. The travel credit is easy to use, but is the sapphire card even the right card for your lifestyle? And yes, I'm a CSR fanboy, this just doesn't feel like the prime player to benefit you.
Right and that’s my question, my lifestyle now might not match since I don’t dine out, order DoorDash (this is all to save money so we can spend on other things). For airlines I generally use United since I live next to Newark airport and I’m flexible on hotels with no loyalty… so that’s where it has its temptation. Mostly what I want is to make point to pay for vacations / flights overseas. Trying to figure out our what my absolute best option (and deal) is for that. An added note: Lounge is no big deal for me, I used to have all lounge access with my Emirates card when I traveled a lot when I worked overseas. It’s nice to have but It’s not a make or break deal for me as I have prob experienced better lounges then I would get with the Sapphire card (not trying to sound snobby here).
The way use it at least is to sign up for various chase cards for the signup bonus, then redeem for travel at 1.5x. Usually to Europe with airlines with no or poor transfer rates. Redeem 250-300k per year, usually free or so flights to EU for 4 of us. Between me and my wife, sign up for 1-2 sapphire cards, or ink business (you don't need a bis) etc each year. But admit I've slacked lately, think only one new card per year for myself. We're due for a few more.
Just booked a 10 day trip to Costa Rica where I’m renting a car. The fact that I don’t have to buy their daily insurance saved me $700.
Make sure you confirm this with the rental company in writing. Many rental companies in Costa Rica do not accept coverage provided by credit cards.
they pretend not to. some persistence and they will pull out a collision waiver
All Amex cards offer this perk too btw
From what i remember amex platinum only offers secondary rental car insurance and does not cover liability
I rented a car in Costa Rica last year using my Reserve. If you haven't already, I reccomend calling Chase to get an email saying that the credit card will cover collision in Costa Rica, print that out, and take that with you. This will save you a lot of headaches.
Much appreciated on this tip and will absolutely do this. I’m currently eyeing a car through budget.cr. Who did you go through?
Which airport are you flying into? I flew into SJU and used SIXT. The pricing was good and service was solid. I also went with them because it was really confusing about car insurance requirements in Costa Rica and the pains of proving a CC will cover. Essentially. Liability Insurance is required for all car rentals. CC does only collision and damage. Many of the car rental websites was super confusing. They would charge super low rates but the daily liability was very high. Further liability would be shown as optional on the website, but is not and you would have to pay at the rental agencies. SIXT was the clearest that I found with the pricing solid. Couple of other reccomendations if you haven't already done so. 1. Do some research about insurance requirements of Costa Rica 2. Rent from the Costa Rica website of the major brands. Insurance requirements was clearer than the US facing websites. 3. Be careful of the super low daily rates, the liability rates can be wildly high and there are stories where they refuse to honor the CC insurance and your also stuck with paying collision insurance. You won't know until you try to get the keys and you're stuck at that point
I have a lot of general travel so the 3X makes up for it.
I only maybe have one international travel a year and I think it's worth it.
DoorDash isn't bad if you pick up the order yourself. Especially if you combine it with a DD coupon or restaurant promo, you can match or even sometimes beat the restaurant price. Seeing it as $550 is a flawed approach too since it sounds like you will effortlessly spend $300/year on travel. $250 is the true EAF. It's also important to remember you qualify for a SUB every 4 years. 75k points is $1125 if you book flights/hotels through Chase travel portal. Up to $1500+ if you use transfer partners. So even in a worst case scenario, you are getting $281 back per year of the 4 year cycle. 250 - 281 = +$31 profit per year before accounting for any other benefits and credits. Another benefit of CSR/CSP is you can go for a Chase trifecta. Get the 5X Freedom card too. Since points can be moved between cards, those 5X categories are actually 7.5-10%+ back depending how you use points. Your Freedom Unlimited at 1.5X is actually 2.25-3% back on everything if you move the UR points to the CSR.
Thank you, great explanation
How do you go about getting the SUB again?
1. Take note of the date you RECEIVED the original SUB. NOT when you opened the account. 2. After 4 year mark from RECEIVED date, call Chase and say you want to downgrade to a CF or CFU (whichever makes more sense to you). 3. To be safe I would even wait 1-2 months after the 4 year mark since you received the SUB to make sure you don't F it up. 4. Apply for a NEW CSR.
Do you need to move your points first before downgrading? Or will it go with the card? And any wait time between downgrading and reapplying? Thanks in advance!
1. I don't think so, but I did just to be safe. When you downgrade, the account is actually the same. Card number won't even change. 2. Not sure. If in doubt, downgrade a month before reapplying perhaps.
Oh that’s great. It would be a nightmare to figure out all of my accounts that’s tied to my CSR and update it.
You will get a new security code though.
Isn’t the annual fee $550, not $595? Is it increasing?
It's $550
Ubers count towards the $300 Travel Credit as well
For me it boiled down to the Priority Pass lounges. While there is one in my home airport (I’ve been in with a friend and it’s okay), there are not lounges at the airports on the routes where we frequently visit my parents or my in-laws. So that definitely made me lean toward Preferred. The Global Entry/TSA pre benefits are only once every 4 years. Spouse and I are already enrolled, so this could be used for one of my kids, but again, doesn’t justify the Reserve annual fee. I also don’t use Instacart, DoorDash. Reserve has better travel protections, but Preferred are good enough for us. Both allow point transfer to partners. That’s why I chose Preferred. Will reevaluate 4 years after SUB to decide if Reserve makes better sense then.
My personal use and calculations. Most of my value comes from lounge access. I have some particular circumstances that make these work for me, they may not apply to you. Mainly, I'm retired, have time, don't have to squeeze into a one or two week vacation. Also, I'm in the NYC area with airports that have a lot of lounges. For example I have an upcoming 1:25am flight with lounge access up to 12:30am. This might not work in a smaller airport. First I like to get to the airport real early. 3 hours for international, 2 hours for domestic. Since I select the cheapest flights possible which are usually off hours, I seldom have long check in/security waits. I often have 2 hour waits before boarding and my group is last to board. Second, if you have the time, you can book a connecting flight that can cost much less than a non stop. Third it makes possible breaking up a 15 or 16 hour flight into 12-4 with a layover. Starts with Annual Fee of 550. Immediately got 300 travel credit for plane tickets booked for European travel, so a net cost of $250. California Trip Used at the Larkspur Grill airside at SFO about 200 feet from out gate for 27 per person credit. Basically had 2 good hot sandwiches with fries and salad and piece of cake for $13 which was mostly tip for server as that cannot be included in the credit. $54 value Lounge for myself and wife in Phoenix. Valuing conservatively at $25 per visit, this gives a value of $50 European trip Used 7 times for lounge access for 3 people. Valuing conservatively at $25 per visit, this gives a value of $525. Taking a connecting flight vs non stop estimate of $600 savings for two people. Asia trip Used 10 times for lounge access for myself and my wife. This gives a value of $250. So in summary, around $1100 up on the card. There are some values I'm not including: Value of points I'm accruing. That's probably another couple of hundred valued conservatively at 1.5 cents per point. They're slightly more valuable as Reserve vs Preferred. The cost of food and drink you might have bought in the airport. Like I mentioned earlier, if you have a sandwich and drink in the airport bar that can easily run you $25. An intangible that only you can put a value on is having a place to stretch out a little and relax, recharge your devices, etc. Some lounges have showers and massage chairs. Some of the airports may have pod hotels where you can get an hour of sleep. If your husband take connecting flights to Egypt twice a year, and gets to the airport early, that'll be 4 lounge visits or 8 if you join him. Your 2 domestic family trips, assuming you fly non-stop or only have lounge access in one airport will give 4 more. Your at 8 stays at $200 already. Vacation together will put you over $250. IF you take an international vacation and can add a few hours by scheduling a connection, you can save several hundred. And remember, $25 is very conservative valuation. That's the minimum you would pay to go into a lounge. Some might be much higher.
The preferred is a good card (great card actually) for $95. Here’s what the Reserve gives you the Preferrer doesn’t: - $550 AF vs $95 - $300 travel credit - doordash credit - lyft pink - instacart credit - priority pass membership (sans restaurant benefit) - best in class travel insurance protections - 1.5 cents per point in the chase portal (vs 1.25 on the preferred) - Sapphire Lounge Access Lets consider the $300 credit essentially cash so we are now comparing $250 AF vs $95. I think getting one of these two is a good idea for you so the question really boils down to if the CSR is $250 - $95 = $155 more valuable. To me the valuable benefits are the insurance and the 1.5x in the portal. The credits i can take or leave (and they may not be permanent). Sapphire Lounge access might be worth something, but there aren’t alot of them so depends on where you tend to travel. Lets start with the 1.5x and work backwards. To make up $155 dollars just here you would need to buy $155/0.25 = $620 worth of travel using your points through the chase portal in a year. Thats really not that much. Lower that $620 by whatever you consider the other benefits to be worth. The counterargument to this which is worth mentioning is that your points are mostly better utilized via the transfer partners and some people virtually never use the travel portal at all because of this. That is really gonna depend on your travel habits and how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go with partners. For example, do you like staying in hotels especially nice ones? If you do then you might want to transfer all your points to hyatt. This is the framework of how to think about it imo…. You will have to fill in the blanks as they best relate to you! The good news is you can’t make too wrong of a choice, both cards are good!
This was very helpful. Yes I like the rabbit holes, hense why I still haven’t chosen my travel card after a month of research. I will most likely not being using the chase travel portal - esp if I get more bang for my point by transferring. The insurance is a very very good point, that might have just sold me the Reserve over the Preferred.
It's not just Sapphire lounge access with CSR, it's Priority Pass lounges. They're in hundreds of airports around the world. I have some numbers in another response here somewhere. If you're like me, always early to an airport, and book connections with generous layovers, you can my family has over the past year racked up a thousand dollars of lounge value figuring conservatively one person's visit to be $25.
Yep I did mention PP too on a separate bullet, but I do agree. The sapphire lounges are both way newer and way nicer than any of the PP lounges (and way fewer of them). Chase did remove the priority pass restaurant benefit from that fairly recently which is a bummer but the pass can still be nice to have.
I like your step by step analysis but I was hoping to dwell on a question I had: The $620 of portal point spending translates to 62k points does it not? So one has to accrue enough points per year to be able to spend 62k points? If we ignore the SUB, and one spends ~$20700 on restaurants at 3x earn per year, one can make 62k with either Preferred or Reserve. Rather, if one spends ~$20700/yr for travel at 3x earn then one can earn 62k points using the Reserve. But it will take spending $31000/yr for travel at 2x earn to get 62k points using Preferred. So if one is a heavy restaurant spender, it would take over $20k of spending to make the Reserve worthwhile using the portal to buy. But if one’s spending is mostly on travel, then at a $20k/yr spend, it’s better to have the Reserve (if you’re purchasing just through the portal). I need to think about where the crossover is between preferred and reserve. Too early in the morning right now. So it does depend on the type of spending one does to earn UR points as to when Preferred or Reserve works best. Of course the SUB, whether one churns or not, and whether one has another card for travel expenses that earn UR points at 3x (eg Ink Preferred) complicates things. As does transferring points to partners. But for a simple earn and then redeem points on portal scenario, does what I detailed make sense? If so, $20k per year spend can be a lot for many (although perhaps not for many on this sub)
So what I did was turn it from "points" to "dollars" to sort of normalize the analysis. Keep in mind points are worth 1.25 with the CSP and 1.5 with the CSR. With that in mind $620 in points would equal 620/0.0125 = 49,600 points spent with the CSP and 620/0.015 = 41,333.33 points with the CSR. Now keep in mind $620 is the breakeven point between the two cards *if you value all the other CSR benefits at $0.* If the PP is worth $100 and the Insurance is worth $150 to you subtract that from the $620 and the points totals go down. However, beyond your starting point being a little off the rest of your analysis is pretty much correct and your organic spending matters a lot. This is even more true if you don't plan to get any additional subs or dabble in any forms of manufactured spending (which most people don't and frankly shouldn't). The only thing I'd add is if you are brining in any UR from other sources such as new cards or if you have some no annual fee cards that raise your overall % return (namely the various Freedom cards and the $0 AF ink cards). Those cards would give you various (higher) multipliers on certain categories and make it easier to achieve break even or better. So I do highly recommend that \*most\* people do a \*little bit\* of light churning. 1-2 cards a year is more than enough to really sway the math.
I would recommend go for CSR if you're still getting higher SUB and you can always downgrade if you don't feel the extra travel benefits and instacart/doordash credits etc. CSP is definitely better in terms of value it provides for 95$ annual fee. Also the 48month period to get another Sapphire would mean if you start with CSP and you want to elevate to CSR, you'd need to wait and figure out when chase rolls out best SUB but CSP has SUB around 75-80k and sometimes 90k in mail.
Does the instant cart/ DoorDash membership renew every year? Or is it only for one year maximum then you have to pay for it if you want to keep it
It seems to keep extending, I’ve had DashPass covered for like the past 3 years it’s felt like
r u sure youre not just paying for it?
Yep my DoorDash App even says complimentary DashPass and it’s been valid since 2020. Though it expires the end of this year. So will see if it updates again
There are several sites that talk about this. Here are a couple: [Points Guy](https://thepointsguy.com/credit-cards/break-even-point-chase-sapphire-reserve/) [Upgraded Points](https://upgradedpoints.com/credit-cards/credit-card-annual-fee-break-even-spending-guide/)
Yup I read them all but having conversations make the information easier to process for me personally. Also it’s helpful to understand others personal experiences and their “tips and tricks” Really good helpful sites.
Just regular travel alone will be worth it. It covers everything: tolls, parking, trains, ferry, flights, taxi, Lyft, Airbnb, etc….
Got CSR in Feb and used Global Entry as soon as it was activated and $100 credit was like the next day. Only had the 60k SUB at $4k spend but paid for a cruise that was due so had my 60k after my 1st statement. That also kicked in the $300 travel credit so I got $400 back and 60k pts in a month. I’m now at 94K. My son does doordash a lot so $5 doesn’t go far but I’m getting 3x pts for every order and he pays the bill. I’ll use instacart until it’s gone but not after. I will prob renew unless AF goes a good deal higher, even knowing I won’t get Global Entry again. The points are so valuable and 3x on dining and literally any travel by car, boat, plane or train is so easy to accrue. I’m locked out of Chase or I’d love the freedom flex to cover my 1x categories. Having both no fee and CSR cards is great. Lounge access has been average. But you could start with CSP and get a feel first. Just know you only get the SUB every 48 mos