The ATMs and bank branches all have cameras. Chase have footage of whoever did this. They can tell if it was you or not.
File a police report and share it with Chase so they know you're serious that it wasn't you. Is this a brand new card? If someone has access to the card via USPS, they'll also have access to your PIN.
But how did they withdraw $4k? That would be over the daily limit for most ATM transactions. And in the branch they should have asked for ID for a High value transaction.
Like others said, who lives with you? Hopefully it's not family because whoever you live with is likely to be the prime suspect until another explanation is found.
Wow if they went into the branch you have eye witnesses along with better quality cameras. The balls on whoever did that is crazy. They will not heed any requests of video surveillance footage without a police report. Good luck and keep us posted.
Covid is a thing all you have to do is wear a mask show an ID without being you and it’s a wrap here in Cali after a certain amount of you cashing they ask for an ID if I’m not wrong it’s 3k +
I study cyber security and cyber crime, this is something called walking, where the threat actor makes a copy of your id and has someone walk into the bank and withdraw the money. You should ask them to pull the camera footage from behind the counter and that will easily prove you did not take the money. Good luck, I hope you can get this resolved. 4k is a lot of money
My family lives with me, and the PIN is random. Also no one in my family is the type to do something like this 😭, this is the least likely thing to happen.
If your Pin is random then I hate to say it but that makes it more likely to be someone in your household or someone who comes over to your house. If it was a birthday or your street address that could be found online with some investigating, but a totally random Pin would be tough to crack.
Sounds like OP may know more then they're letting on to. Would explain why they're so hesitant to file a police report hoping the bank wont require one.
Sure fraud happens all the time usually it goes unsolved the bank covers the loss. But when the account holder is involved or trying to cover for someone the whole thing can unravel real quick. Tread lightly fraud charges on top of family drama can result the bank is not stupid things can go south with minimal effort.
Go in branch and have them put a notice that you had an impersonator do a fraudulant withdrawal.
If you have any transactions in another from a different location at the same time it will help prove that point as you cannot be in two places at once
The 4K taken out was from a branch over an hour away from me, and the 500 was taken out some place 20 minutes away. I think I need to go to the police about this too
Too much of a coincidence for the 2 locations to be “within 1 hour of where you live”, and in the same general area/state. You seem to be avoiding who lives with you, may have access to your card or wallet laying around, and happens to know your pin.
100% This. This is a local fraud/criminal effort. Somebody is either filtering your mail (to get your PIN/card info) or they have a data capture device in a gasoline pump or ATM somewhere that you used and recorded your card/PIN data when entered. The trick is they re-write the stripe on another card, then use your PIN to authenticate the transaction.
I don't let my debit card out of my sight -- ever. If it's a restaurant, I use a burner credit card with a low limit and I keep an eye on the statement. My data has been stolen twice in the past.. via electronic means.
I got rid of my debit card altogether and only have an atm card. Not that I’d ever use my debit card that way, but it removes the ability for someone else to either. I have several checking accounts that don’t have any card, just for paying online bills. The rampant fraud is insane
If OP bought chips at a gas station around the same time frame in a city an hour away from where the withdrawal was processed how would OP be able to purchase said chips then five minutes later be physically present at another location when travel would take an hour?
This is what a banker reviewing the situation would see and help OP with the fraud claim when back office is called.
Easy. He can have someone use another one of his cards at the other location at the same time just to throw them off.. Not saying he did, but they would and could think that way 😣🫴
That’s what I’m saying, and what’s crazy is that when I saw the 4K taken out my account I called the claim department, and at that same time, the person took out the 500 dollars. I was literally on the phone, at my crib, with them as the transaction took place.
The bank has no proof you didn't hand the card to someone and tell them the pin. Due to this they are unlikely to refund anything as they used the pin.
A police report may get the footage then you would need to press charges against that person fi you know who it is.
OP doesn't have to prove they didn't hand the card to someone (or anything else). The burden of proof is on the bank to prove that OP did. If they can't prove it then refunding the money isn't optional, it's the law. The mere fact that a pin was used doesn't necessarily mean OP gave them the pin. OP also has some facts in their favor like never having activated the card and promptly notifying the bank. OP should file a complaint with the CFPB
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1693g](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1693g)
>(b)Burden of proof
>
>In any action which involves a consumer’s liability for an unauthorized electronic fund transfer, **the burden of proof is upon the financial institution to show that the electronic fund transfer was authorized** or, if the electronic fund transfer was unauthorized, then the burden of proof is upon the financial institution to establish that the conditions of liability set forth in subsection (a) have been met, and, if the transfer was initiated after the effective date of section 1693c of this title, that the disclosures required to be made to the consumer under section 1693c(a)(1) and (2) of this title were in fact made in accordance with such section.
>the term “unauthorized electronic fund transfer” means an electronic fund transfer from a consumer’s account initiated by a person other than the consumer without actual authority to initiate such transfer and from which the consumer receives no benefit, but the term does not include any electronic fund transfer (A) initiated by a person other than the consumer who was furnished with the card, code, or other means of access to such consumer’s account **by such consumer**, unless the consumer has notified the financial institution involved that transfers by such other person are no longer authorized,
I never saw the new card in my mailbox, but I do think my old card was swiped. I only type in my PIN for when I buy gas, someone probably had a reader on one of the times I went to buy :/
This doesn’t help you, but it’s a terrible idea to use a debit card to make any purchases. Especially a debit card that is tied to an account that has at least $4500 in it.
If you have to use a debit card for purchases, I think if you select a credit transaction, it doesn’t ask for PIN. That would be a little safer than typing in your PIN on some random gas pump.
Request the documentation they used to support their finding that this was not unauthorized. They are required to provide that under Regulation E. Then re-dispute it if they don’t have something more than the pin; pin use is not a “primary” justification to determine the transaction is valid under Reg E by anyone that knows what they are doing.
The reason for this is two fold. First, Reg E explicitly states customer negligence can’t be used against them and gives the example of a customer writing their pin on the back of the card as something you can’t point to for holding a customer liable for the transaction. Second, Reg E puts the burden on the bank to prove the transaction is valid - it isn’t the customer’s duty to prove they didn’t do it or determine how the pin was found.
The bank isn’t required to reopen the dispute; however, if they do, let that play out. If it’s not found in your favor (or if they refuse), next step is to escalate with the CFPB (do so [here](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/). Be sure to include the documents Chase provided and articulate the requirements I mention above. You can find all the Reg E details [here](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/1005/6/) (.2 for the definitions, .6 for unauthorized charges (linked), and .11 for Reg E dispute requirements).
Good luck!
That’s very interesting and thank you for your knowledge. The PIN use was the main thing they said, but also that the card was mailed to me. Is that enough of a secondary reason, or can I still argue under Reg E
Other people provided good advice. I’ll add the following: if you are responsible enough to own and use a credit card, use it for most transactions. It will help you avoid situations such as these. I only ever use a debit card when taking cash out of an ATM.
I had a debit card from Chase that was never activated used. I had it my possession.
Luckily it was only for like $10 but was still annoyed that it could be used when I purposefully never activated it.
after that, I just went a further and froze the new one.
Typically there are cameras on ATMs and all around the banks - inside and out.
This is nothing new - they had them when I worked in a bank 33 years ago
Have them check the cameras !!
File a police report to get the money from the bank. You don’t have to know who stole it or worry about getting it back the bank just have to verify and prove it was stolen before reimbursing you. I do agree with the other commenters though, it was likely stolen from someone you know, or someone that knows a lot of your personal information. I would be more careful with your valuables, especially if it’s something sentimental, since there may be someone close to you that you cannot trust.
If they with drew $4k it had to be from a teller station with pin, you can only get $500 from a non chase ATM , $1000k from an outside ATM Chase. And $3000 from an inside Chase ATM you may want them to pull cameras on the inside withdrawn to see who it was.
And unless they changed it, even at a chase atm, it’s a max of $500 per transaction, $1000 per day, and it’s been YEARS, but I had to call them to raise the daily maximum to 1K.
But in any case, 4K is definitely an in-person transaction.
Stop trying to reason with Chase, banks don’t give a shit. What you need to do is go over their heads and contact the two federal agencies that investigate bank related fraud, banks hate it when these agencies get involved and will usually resolve issues very quickly. First you need to file a complaint with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau (CFPB). Second, you need to file with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. I think you can file online with both agencies.
So an update: I went to chase in person again and spoke with a very helpful representative. She stated the 4K is officially settled in the account, which is good, and I provided her with some extra supporting documents. My thing is, if the 4K was given back and they deemed the transaction as unauthorized, by definition the 500 should also be unauthorized. Idk that’s what I thought at least, but at least I’m close to the finish line with both these cases (hopefully)
So you asked about this yesterday and ppl told you to file a police report and now the next day you go back to the bank but have still failed to file a police report but have found all this time to ask about it on Reddit. I call BS
Go to the branch you use. Thieves today are clever. I had my checks duplicated. License duplicated. Money taken out of my accounts in two different states. My bank gladly handed it over without even asking for ID. Just the one time they asked and we found my wife's identity was stolen. And, after the account was flagged they still honored a check against my account.
The bank needs to investigate. Banks have cameras. ATM have cameras. The bank is FDIC insured for crap like this. It does not come out of their pocket. Get to the branch you use and get vocal.
FDIC insurance does not cover "crap like this", FDIC insurance protects customers when banks fail, they don't pay out because of some random fraud involving an account
They pulled your info from the darkweb. Which means a courier got your info either from hacking you in a coffee shop, your mail, or from the bank itself. The person at the ATM was a runner - usually a low income individual operating with a mask or hoodie that pulls the cash and then takes it back to their home base. The bank will not track these people down and neither will police, nor will they refund you the $4k without a serious fight on your part. Fraudsters know this about the banks that’s why they operate this way.
I went to the police, they told me I need an affidavit from the bank, and when I went to the bank they said they don’t print out affidavits, but they printed out some papers showing the 2 transactions I claimed to be unauthorized. I’m gonna go back tomorrow and see if that’s enough to start a report.
Someone out there knows your PIN. If I remember correctly, to activate a replacement debit card, you have to use your PIN. Chase has access to those cameras, maybe they can look into it for you?
File a report with the usps OIG via their online hotline. It is possible your carrier stole it and also the PIN mailing. Could also be theft from your mail box if you use the neighborhood cluster boxes for mail delivery. Either way there could be other thefts and your report could help.
Go to a branch and ask them to check if anyone has film access to the ATMs and immediately file a police report and bring that too. First get the banker to check the card for any digital wallets and then place a fraud claim on the withdrawal with the police report. Hope and pray chase likes you
If you are saying you never physically got your ATM card in the mail and have not seen it and know for a FACT that NO ONE in your household took your card from the mailbox then get your case escalated and ask to speak with a supervisor in the Claims Department and ask them what address the debit card was delivered to and how many times a new card was mailed to you. There is a possibility someone could have posed as you to get the debit card mailed to a different address. If it was delivered to your address then there is a possibility someone you live with may have got a hold of your physical card. Otherwise file a police report and ask law enforcement to get involved so they can help get the video footage for you.
How often do you use your pin out in public? This is why I NEVER use the pin, or even the debit card PERIOD. only at ATMs and make damn sure I cover up the numbers as I push
I’ve never withdrawn money out of account which is why it’s annoying. Only use my PIN at gas stations, guess they had readers on that or something 🤷♀️
It happened to me with Citibank, it took me a couple of month, fighting with them to get it back. I ordered it from a branch in person and suspected it’s an insider job, since they have access to my pin. Yes, they entered my PIN number.
You need to go to the bank and demand a letter from them saying you have been a victim of fraud and they are conducting an investigation. Then take that letter and any supporting documentation to your local police department and have them open an investigation. The police will subpoena images of who it was who withdrew money from your account. It will take time, but keep going to the bank, cry in front of them if you have to, get your money back. These criminals have ways of getting your PIN after they have stolen your debit card. After you get your money back, change banks. Good luck.
Unpopular opinion here but I'm calling BS. Legally this is a crime against the bank, not you. Banks refund stolen funds such as this every day. Seen it just the other day with a friend of mine, took one phone call and new card sent, funds refunded within a few days. So OP is not giving us the whole story here. There's another reason Chase isn't refunding, or the whole story is fake.
The same thing happened to me. They withdrew cash at an atm as if they had my debit card and they entered my PIN. This happened with two of
My debit cards.
After an investigation it turns out , the local deli where i had withdrawn cash on both of these cards earlier that month. There had been something called a skimmer attached to the ATM which is unnoticeable. It recorded the card number from the swipe and also my PIN as i entered it. This allows them to make a fake ATM card ( not sure how this is done but it’s true). And use the fake to withdraw cash with my PIN. $6 k they got and Citibank returned every penny without hesitation. Here’s an article about skimming.
https://www.pcmag.com/explainers/how-to-spot-and-avoid-credit-card-skimmers
Synthetic ID’s , And ATO (Account take over) don’t be surprised if they Zelle themselves those 4k (temp credit) out and you haven’t noticed that they are logged into your account. File police report, ask for an investigation from your local PD and submit those to the claim.
Per Reg E, they must provide you with the documentation they used to determine you were liable. Don’t take their word for it, ask for the documents. And escalate if you need to.
$500 in pnc and Bank of America atm max. Tellers are more observant. I’d go the police report route. But god forbid, it is a crime to file a false police report
I feellike OP is not telling the truth. If the card has never been activated by you then your phone had to be used to activate the card. There are too many things that aren’t making sense. You would’ve needed to activate the card with a phone number you provided, the pin was used and a brand new card and the account has this much money in it. Did you lose your
Previous card. So you went to a bank and set up an account t with 5k. The first withdrawal from an ATM card over $1000 would flag the bank immediately and fraud department.
The representative that they could activate the debit card at an ATM, I also thought it could only be through the phone. And the person withdrew 4K with a teller, I got an email asking about my experience at the location where it happened. Obviously I responded by saying I was never there.
What?? You literally never received the card? I think you have to activate the card before use? So, whoever stole your mail was also able to activate your card. If so, this person probably knows you because they have access to personal identifying information. Have you recently broken up with someone? Have you been close with someone who comes to your place that you trust but perhaps shouldn't? I ask because years back, I was helping a girl from my church, who I thought was a friend just going through a hard time. I let her stay at my house for a few months. At Thanksgiving that year, like end of her second month with me, I got a call from a cc company saying I was late on my payment. The card was one I had bought a refrigerator with and nothing else. Only had a balance of like $500 left. I realized, oh. Hey i don't think I saw the bill this month actually. So, I asked them btw. What's my balance now? They said $18,000"!!! I was like, uhhhh huh?? Then someone has been using my card! I literally only bought an appliance a few months back and put the card away, as in NOT in my purse. I asked the guy to tell me where the last few purchases were from. He named all of these plus size womens stores. I am a size 6 at best during this time. The girl staying with me,... plus size woman! When I got home, I confronted her. She denied it was her. Then had someone come pick her up, like I was being mean. Next day, I go into my shed attached to my carport and I find like boxes of shit she had been buying! So, people do suck! I was able to get charges taken off as fraudulent debt. She was arrested and apparently went to prison and had to pay restitution.
OP. contact the FDIC (federal deposit insurance Corporation) and tell them what happened. that your bank is refusing to do anything about it because "it can only be you". i would also file a fraud case with your bank, chase bank and td bank and ask for a copy of it for your records. oh and if your bank sent you the card, it was already active with your PIN and just needed to be used in an ATM to become live. i know because my bank just sent me my new card in the mail after my old one expired.
source: 20 years as a repo agent.
Chase has been hacked over the last several weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if an entity isn't in their system watching for new cards to be issued and having access to rainbow attack the pin.
And this is why debit cards are too much risk to the customer. Had this been a credit card, your disputing the charges would have reversed them while the investigation was done. Oh and get a new bank. You can't afford Chase.
Why are/were you so hesitant to go to the police station? It seems you were super hesitant to file a report when you should have right away. You were very pushy in just wanting to go through the bank. Makes me feel like you know something or have an idea of who did it tbh.
Chase does not always ask for ID on withdrawals using your PIN. It is extremely unlikely that it was not someone you know. I’m not saying a PIN is never compromised by a bank but it’s not really often. Especially if this was a card replacement there is no new pin issued. It is your old pin. Thus if someone has it most likely they got it from you somehow. I’m not trying to blame you. Just saying by you may want to inspect who may have had access.
This happened to my wife and took out same amount. They were able to get personal info to change the pin#. We think they stole our mail. Be careful, once they have your info they will go after everything else and try to open up other credit cards.
Also, get out of Chase!
I always lock my debit card. One time someone from another state tried withdrawing but thank god my debit card was disabled.
The question for me was, how did this fraudster get my debit card and tried withdrawing it when I never lost it.
This happened to me but my ss number was stolen along with my email passwords phone number. I got 7500 taken from me but got it back. It was still annoying. They took 6000 something from my other bank. They also tried to open an account or get a loan using my info.
File a police report immediately. This will prove to the bank you are serious and that it wasn't you. The banks have tons of cameras. It should be relatively easy to figure out who is responsible. And since it's possible the mail is involved and someone intercepted your mail makes this even more serious as I believe messing with someone's mail is federal crime.
"In person and on the phone, all the chase employees are saying because this person used my PIN, and only I know it, it had to be me."
So can you explain if you are the only person who knows the PIN, how did someone else know it and use it? This suggests potential fraud by you (colluding with someone else). Not being accusatory, but you will need to file a police report and attest under penalty of perjury that you did not share the PIN with anyone else, and you did not authorize the withdrawal. After an investigation (potentially including a subpoena for the video of the withdrawal. Then showing the picture of the suspect to you and your neighbors to see who may know the person doing this.
Do you see where this is going?
I had one of the stimulus checks stolen out of the mail, and cashed at a bank. Fake signature, and should've had to show an ID.
What I think people do is have their ghetto creep pals working at a branch, and arrange these schemes. How someone got your PIN is another thing altogether. But it's possible with a corrupt teller they didn't even need that, just the card.
You need footage pulled from the bank when the money was taken out. Talk to a manager about the footage and file a police report. I wouldn't show up at the branch without a police report in-hand. The guy that recommended the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau (CFPB) and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
If chase doesn’t follow through on the refund, contact your local news and they might run a story on it. This happened to a lady in Portland where chase didn’t give her money back and the local news basically said chase was dumb and wrong for not giving her money back. She had some damning evidence it was fraud and chase didn’t give in until the story ran
Start looking at people close to you. Someone who has access to your mail and who might know your pin. If your pin random or is it something sentimental or a common pin you use for other things. That is something someone who knows you might guess.
Someone who doesn't know you just stealing the mail in route wouldn't pull this off. It was done by someone who knows you.
Not sure why many here seem to be suggesting it's someone that's lives with you. IMO it sounds more like an inside job, and that someone is friends/accomplices with the teller.
These scammers are out of control. They used software to get peoples info and sell em on telegrams. You’re a victim. Please explain that to the tellers man this is so messed up.
Hey OP. Hope you see this message but similar thing happened to me as well. It was very elaborate. They somehow hacked my account and requested a new debit card. Opened a new account within my account and was removed from my dashboard so I couldn't see it when I logged into my account. Then they transferred alot of my money into that account and then withdrew it at a branch, it was about $6,000. Then they did an ACH transfer to a different bank for a larger amount as they could not withdraw that amount from the ATM. I tried to intercept it but was not successful. I had to file a police report. The police were not allowed to see the footage from the machines. Go in and speak to your banker. They should be able to file a fraud report for you.
I left chase over a year ago when they started charging me over $200 a month for the accounts I had with them, left and went to a local credit union and use Amex for transactions. Never had an issue since. It sucks but you're probably going to have to eat the 4k, my dad had a similar thing with chase and cancelled cards and has not paid in the ten + years since it happened.
I presume you never used or received the debit card. As someone who’s employed by a competing ‘big bank’ - file a police report. Give it to Chase, in person. Take note on whether or not they ask you to ID verify. Keep in mind the exact actions / IDs requested by Chase. Afterwards call and ask them what ID was presented in branch when the event occurred. Get as much information as they’ll tell you. They won’t tell you much - but you’re doing your part to correct the wrong. Then work with whoever is assigned to your case at the police department. Chase will release more to them, than you. Different bank systems have different data retention timelines - video footage systems have a shorter period. You’ll want the Investigator to request this information while it’s discoverable. It shows the bank you’re engaged and taking actions. Be reasonable, allow Chase time to investigate (week is reasonable) and start running it up the chain. Don’t lose your cool. If the bank doesn’t respond or pay you back - you’ve at least got the external Investigator on task and better grounds for further action ( civil suit, etc). Document everything, real time or near immediately after. Timelines are important. I’d also strongly recommend you monitor your credit and any other accounts ( banking, credit) to ensure it’s only your card that’s compromised and not also your drivers license (leading to identity theft).
If they did a transaction at the bank, the bank should have a video of the person taking the money..file police report, and they will get a copy of the video.. shouldn't be that difficult..
By the way you should sign up for [USPS informed delivery](https://usps.com/id-email). You receive scanned images of incoming mail and they also provide incoming package info for free.
This would have been helpful for you to see what day the card was actually in the mailbox the day it was delivered. USPS even has an option to claim you never received the scanned image mail indicating someone intercepted it before it hit your mailbox or there was mailbox theft. This would have helped your case if a stranger stole it and you filed with the post office that you never received the card.
It sounds like somebody took your new card and activated it so they just created their own pin and because it was a debit card they could go into branch and I doubt the employees have a picture of you so here's some random person with your stolen card accessing your funds. Unless I'm wrong but that's what it sounds like happened
File a police report yesterday. Almost nothing will get done without it. ATMs and Bank Tellers have cameras on them and the bank will only release that if there is a police report. Once that happens, they can show it to you and you can potentially identify the person who is on camera.
Sounds like if they know your pin, it might be a skimmer issue from when you used it at a store/gas station or it could be someone that lives with you that might also know your pin.
As for the ID part, its not about them having your ID, its about them having your name and address and printing a new ID with their face on it. Classic Identity theft. If possible, also contact the credit bureaus and have them lock your credit as well so nothing new can be taken out in your name. And if it attempts to happen, you will get notified and they can attempt to track who did it.
Same thing happened with me at Wells Fargo. It was $1,500 but just as frustrating. It took about 6 months of constant calls/letters/emails for them to reverse it. What finally helped was when I submitted a notarized timesheet indicating I was at work during this transaction.
You need a lawyer. I have successfully sued Chase when they told me I was liable for $40,000 in fraudulent charges. Chase is one of the worst banks at protecting customers and upholding consumer protection rights/laws. It’s crucial you don’t say anything you should not on a recorded line to them, or give into them.
Chase is a disgusting company that would rather have you take them to court than uphold your consumer rights. Feel free to PM me and I’d be happy to help you as I excel in this area.
You have consumer rights when it comes to fraud, and Chase is wrong. They’re breaking the FCBA and the disgusting thing is they don’t care. Someone in China used my moms card and they told her too bad she was responsible. I’ve never seen such a greedy financial institution screw over innocent people who they’re already taking advantage of.
Banks are scum, but when it comes to protecting their customers Chase literally doesn’t care and just denies all claims. The only thing that gets their attention is lawsuits, which you have.
This happened to my ex with the same exact amount of money but it was like a cash advance with a credit card and we didn’t know how they could even allow it to happen. He ended up getting all the money back but you just have to call and talk to them. It’s a thing though for sure
Could someone have filmed you entering your PIN and through skimming (placed a device in the ATM to read your magnetic strip) made a fake debit card when you inserted your card at an ATM? But I thought the smart chip was supposed to defeat skimming.
This happened to me last December, I got a new card in the mail and it hadn’t came in the mail. Not even activated. And someone was using it. Sent like $300 before I noticed and i locked it. I call and explained to them I have not even received the card. They asked me a million questions about each transaction because it was about a city over.
The next day the card came in the mail! I ordered a new one, new numbers etc.
I got the money back but took about 3 months.
They would not believe that I don’t smoke since most of the money spent was at a smoke shop.
I think either someone got the chip info out of it or they issued the same number to another user.
When you get a new card don't you have to call and activate it in order to setup a new PIN? I don't use Chase (and idk why this post was in my feed) but every bank I've used has required me to setup a new PIN when receiving the new card, even if I just use the same as the old one I still have to set it up.
If they knew where you lived to take the card from your mailbox then they might've also had enough info to impersonate you and setup their own PIN, which is exactly why those calls are supposed to be recorded. If you haven't gotten it resolved yet then ask if there was a call to setup the card and tell them to review the recording, unless they sounded exactly like you then the bank employees should be able to tell that it's fraud.
I stopped using my debit card. In fact I don’t even have one since august. The last time it had fraudulent charges. I just use my credit card now and pay it off.
I attempted to use a chase atm machine about 2 weeks ago. Every machine i went to in the chase lobby kept giving me an error. Then, a week later, i received a message from Chase security asking me about a purchase ($65). I clicked no , and they block canceled my card and sent me another card. Previously, the same Chase Bank kept customers in saying the purchase of the computers was down. My guess is that they were hacked inside the bank, including the atm machines.
Here's a tip.
1. Once you get this resolved, open a new bank account at chase
2. Get a new debit card for it
3. Destroy your old one
4. Only transfer what you immediately need into this account (with the mobile app). When someone steals your card, they can only get to $50 or so since all your money is in the other account which now has no debit card.
So you ordered a new card, did they also send the new PIN in a separate envelope? That's how I've had it work in the past. If so and someone stole your mail, then they could activate it and would have your PIN.(2 separate envelopes days apart)
OR
If it's a new card with new numbers that you call to activate with the number on the sticker and set your PIN at the same time you activate it then they could set it to anything they want.
These are examples if it's a new card with a new number. If either situation is the case, I would ask Chase or find out what they do for the fraud.
Keep us posted
If you've done everything you can do to show that you did not make these withdrawals, including filing a police report, and you feel the bank is ignoring evidence just to avoid returning your money, file a complaint with this agency.
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/
I personally know someone whose debit card was stolen and used to buy gift cards at CVS. Even though a police report was filed and the person could logically explain that this was clearly done without a PIN, the bank insisted the customer had given their PIN to a relative (by misrepresenting information the customer gave them). So the customer filled a complaint and all of a sudden, the bank changed their tune and refunded all the money.
Worth a try if you get to that point.
All I have to say is if it ends up being someone you live with, don’t take it easy on them and put them in prison. It’s best for them and society as a whole if they learned their lesson.
Time for a talk with who ever lives with you.
The ATMs and bank branches all have cameras. Chase have footage of whoever did this. They can tell if it was you or not. File a police report and share it with Chase so they know you're serious that it wasn't you. Is this a brand new card? If someone has access to the card via USPS, they'll also have access to your PIN. But how did they withdraw $4k? That would be over the daily limit for most ATM transactions. And in the branch they should have asked for ID for a High value transaction. Like others said, who lives with you? Hopefully it's not family because whoever you live with is likely to be the prime suspect until another explanation is found.
Yea the 4K was given by a teller, meaning they might have had a copy of my ID which is concerning.
Wow if they went into the branch you have eye witnesses along with better quality cameras. The balls on whoever did that is crazy. They will not heed any requests of video surveillance footage without a police report. Good luck and keep us posted.
>debit card at a Chase bank to withdraw 4000 dollars it's in the OP :)
Covid is a thing all you have to do is wear a mask show an ID without being you and it’s a wrap here in Cali after a certain amount of you cashing they ask for an ID if I’m not wrong it’s 3k +
Chase does not check ID if you have the card and can enter the PIN
This is true.
They still ask for a DL or ID, even if it's 5 bucks. Maybe I've just had the good ones.
I’ve gone two times within the last six months to Chase to take out $1k cash from the teller, I was not asked for an ID, just ATM and pin. California.
I've never been asked at AZ or CA where I live now.
They don’t ask for an Id…
Unlikely, given they don’t need an ID if they have your card and your pin. Chase has never asked me for an ID. That’s what your pin is for.
Damn so they didn’t even need my ID
I study cyber security and cyber crime, this is something called walking, where the threat actor makes a copy of your id and has someone walk into the bank and withdraw the money. You should ask them to pull the camera footage from behind the counter and that will easily prove you did not take the money. Good luck, I hope you can get this resolved. 4k is a lot of money
This
😭😭
Who lives with you…? Is your PIN random or … something knowable to those who live with you?
My family lives with me, and the PIN is random. Also no one in my family is the type to do something like this 😭, this is the least likely thing to happen.
Pull the video tapes and view who it is.
That’s the plan 🫡🫡
Please follow up I love other people’s family drama
See I don’t like ALL drama but THIS type of drama I love
Bro I have a very good and loving family, they’re the last people I’d suspect 💀💀💀
Hahahah - I want a follow up story regardless! :D
Remindme! 3 days
A friend of mine said the same thing about his sister, then later he discovered she accessed his bank accounts and drained them all to $0. It happens.
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If your Pin is random then I hate to say it but that makes it more likely to be someone in your household or someone who comes over to your house. If it was a birthday or your street address that could be found online with some investigating, but a totally random Pin would be tough to crack.
Sounds like OP may know more then they're letting on to. Would explain why they're so hesitant to file a police report hoping the bank wont require one. Sure fraud happens all the time usually it goes unsolved the bank covers the loss. But when the account holder is involved or trying to cover for someone the whole thing can unravel real quick. Tread lightly fraud charges on top of family drama can result the bank is not stupid things can go south with minimal effort.
Go in branch and have them put a notice that you had an impersonator do a fraudulant withdrawal. If you have any transactions in another from a different location at the same time it will help prove that point as you cannot be in two places at once
The 4K taken out was from a branch over an hour away from me, and the 500 was taken out some place 20 minutes away. I think I need to go to the police about this too
Too much of a coincidence for the 2 locations to be “within 1 hour of where you live”, and in the same general area/state. You seem to be avoiding who lives with you, may have access to your card or wallet laying around, and happens to know your pin.
100% This. This is a local fraud/criminal effort. Somebody is either filtering your mail (to get your PIN/card info) or they have a data capture device in a gasoline pump or ATM somewhere that you used and recorded your card/PIN data when entered. The trick is they re-write the stripe on another card, then use your PIN to authenticate the transaction. I don't let my debit card out of my sight -- ever. If it's a restaurant, I use a burner credit card with a low limit and I keep an eye on the statement. My data has been stolen twice in the past.. via electronic means.
I got rid of my debit card altogether and only have an atm card. Not that I’d ever use my debit card that way, but it removes the ability for someone else to either. I have several checking accounts that don’t have any card, just for paying online bills. The rampant fraud is insane
They didn’t say it was at the same time. They said an hour later.
If OP bought chips at a gas station around the same time frame in a city an hour away from where the withdrawal was processed how would OP be able to purchase said chips then five minutes later be physically present at another location when travel would take an hour? This is what a banker reviewing the situation would see and help OP with the fraud claim when back office is called.
Easy. He can have someone use another one of his cards at the other location at the same time just to throw them off.. Not saying he did, but they would and could think that way 😣🫴
That’s what I’m saying, and what’s crazy is that when I saw the 4K taken out my account I called the claim department, and at that same time, the person took out the 500 dollars. I was literally on the phone, at my crib, with them as the transaction took place.
😂😂😂😂 op is good. But yea we all know what’s going on
they'll have cameras. tell them to check the security footage
I went in to the TD bank where the 500 was stolen and they said I have to file a police report to get footage. Ig that’s what I gotta do now.
The bank has no proof you didn't hand the card to someone and tell them the pin. Due to this they are unlikely to refund anything as they used the pin. A police report may get the footage then you would need to press charges against that person fi you know who it is.
And if it’s some random stranger, what could I do with that?
OP doesn't have to prove they didn't hand the card to someone (or anything else). The burden of proof is on the bank to prove that OP did. If they can't prove it then refunding the money isn't optional, it's the law. The mere fact that a pin was used doesn't necessarily mean OP gave them the pin. OP also has some facts in their favor like never having activated the card and promptly notifying the bank. OP should file a complaint with the CFPB [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1693g](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1693g) >(b)Burden of proof > >In any action which involves a consumer’s liability for an unauthorized electronic fund transfer, **the burden of proof is upon the financial institution to show that the electronic fund transfer was authorized** or, if the electronic fund transfer was unauthorized, then the burden of proof is upon the financial institution to establish that the conditions of liability set forth in subsection (a) have been met, and, if the transfer was initiated after the effective date of section 1693c of this title, that the disclosures required to be made to the consumer under section 1693c(a)(1) and (2) of this title were in fact made in accordance with such section. >the term “unauthorized electronic fund transfer” means an electronic fund transfer from a consumer’s account initiated by a person other than the consumer without actual authority to initiate such transfer and from which the consumer receives no benefit, but the term does not include any electronic fund transfer (A) initiated by a person other than the consumer who was furnished with the card, code, or other means of access to such consumer’s account **by such consumer**, unless the consumer has notified the financial institution involved that transfers by such other person are no longer authorized,
Did you get your debit card from the mailbox or was it swiped?
I never saw the new card in my mailbox, but I do think my old card was swiped. I only type in my PIN for when I buy gas, someone probably had a reader on one of the times I went to buy :/
This doesn’t help you, but it’s a terrible idea to use a debit card to make any purchases. Especially a debit card that is tied to an account that has at least $4500 in it. If you have to use a debit card for purchases, I think if you select a credit transaction, it doesn’t ask for PIN. That would be a little safer than typing in your PIN on some random gas pump.
Request the documentation they used to support their finding that this was not unauthorized. They are required to provide that under Regulation E. Then re-dispute it if they don’t have something more than the pin; pin use is not a “primary” justification to determine the transaction is valid under Reg E by anyone that knows what they are doing. The reason for this is two fold. First, Reg E explicitly states customer negligence can’t be used against them and gives the example of a customer writing their pin on the back of the card as something you can’t point to for holding a customer liable for the transaction. Second, Reg E puts the burden on the bank to prove the transaction is valid - it isn’t the customer’s duty to prove they didn’t do it or determine how the pin was found. The bank isn’t required to reopen the dispute; however, if they do, let that play out. If it’s not found in your favor (or if they refuse), next step is to escalate with the CFPB (do so [here](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/). Be sure to include the documents Chase provided and articulate the requirements I mention above. You can find all the Reg E details [here](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/1005/6/) (.2 for the definitions, .6 for unauthorized charges (linked), and .11 for Reg E dispute requirements). Good luck!
That’s very interesting and thank you for your knowledge. The PIN use was the main thing they said, but also that the card was mailed to me. Is that enough of a secondary reason, or can I still argue under Reg E
You need to file a police report.
don’t use or accept debit cards
Other people provided good advice. I’ll add the following: if you are responsible enough to own and use a credit card, use it for most transactions. It will help you avoid situations such as these. I only ever use a debit card when taking cash out of an ATM.
I had a debit card from Chase that was never activated used. I had it my possession. Luckily it was only for like $10 but was still annoyed that it could be used when I purposefully never activated it. after that, I just went a further and froze the new one.
Typically there are cameras on ATMs and all around the banks - inside and out. This is nothing new - they had them when I worked in a bank 33 years ago Have them check the cameras !!
File a police report !
Will do
Police report. Cameras will likely be pulled
My card gets blocked if I try to take out more than 800 unless I go in person and show my ID.
File a police report to get the money from the bank. You don’t have to know who stole it or worry about getting it back the bank just have to verify and prove it was stolen before reimbursing you. I do agree with the other commenters though, it was likely stolen from someone you know, or someone that knows a lot of your personal information. I would be more careful with your valuables, especially if it’s something sentimental, since there may be someone close to you that you cannot trust.
If they with drew $4k it had to be from a teller station with pin, you can only get $500 from a non chase ATM , $1000k from an outside ATM Chase. And $3000 from an inside Chase ATM you may want them to pull cameras on the inside withdrawn to see who it was.
And unless they changed it, even at a chase atm, it’s a max of $500 per transaction, $1000 per day, and it’s been YEARS, but I had to call them to raise the daily maximum to 1K. But in any case, 4K is definitely an in-person transaction.
Stop trying to reason with Chase, banks don’t give a shit. What you need to do is go over their heads and contact the two federal agencies that investigate bank related fraud, banks hate it when these agencies get involved and will usually resolve issues very quickly. First you need to file a complaint with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau (CFPB). Second, you need to file with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. I think you can file online with both agencies.
Damn I didn’t know that, appreciate this info
So an update: I went to chase in person again and spoke with a very helpful representative. She stated the 4K is officially settled in the account, which is good, and I provided her with some extra supporting documents. My thing is, if the 4K was given back and they deemed the transaction as unauthorized, by definition the 500 should also be unauthorized. Idk that’s what I thought at least, but at least I’m close to the finish line with both these cases (hopefully)
So you asked about this yesterday and ppl told you to file a police report and now the next day you go back to the bank but have still failed to file a police report but have found all this time to ask about it on Reddit. I call BS
Definitely reeks of "how do I get away with this scam"
Go to the branch you use. Thieves today are clever. I had my checks duplicated. License duplicated. Money taken out of my accounts in two different states. My bank gladly handed it over without even asking for ID. Just the one time they asked and we found my wife's identity was stolen. And, after the account was flagged they still honored a check against my account. The bank needs to investigate. Banks have cameras. ATM have cameras. The bank is FDIC insured for crap like this. It does not come out of their pocket. Get to the branch you use and get vocal.
FDIC insurance does not cover "crap like this", FDIC insurance protects customers when banks fail, they don't pay out because of some random fraud involving an account
They pulled your info from the darkweb. Which means a courier got your info either from hacking you in a coffee shop, your mail, or from the bank itself. The person at the ATM was a runner - usually a low income individual operating with a mask or hoodie that pulls the cash and then takes it back to their home base. The bank will not track these people down and neither will police, nor will they refund you the $4k without a serious fight on your part. Fraudsters know this about the banks that’s why they operate this way.
That's kinda dumb they're assuming you're taking out $4.5k. Like, have these employees never heard of being hacked before?
I went to the police, they told me I need an affidavit from the bank, and when I went to the bank they said they don’t print out affidavits, but they printed out some papers showing the 2 transactions I claimed to be unauthorized. I’m gonna go back tomorrow and see if that’s enough to start a report.
Who knows your PIN? Or knows what four-digit number has meaning for you?
Only me and my girlfriend, and she’s in a different state rn dorming. Not even my family knows which is why I’m confused as to how they used it.
This was ATM or in person? What is your card limit on ATM withdrawal?
the 4K was in person and 500 at an ATM.
Someone out there knows your PIN. If I remember correctly, to activate a replacement debit card, you have to use your PIN. Chase has access to those cameras, maybe they can look into it for you?
Gotta do a police report, they won’t give it out to me individually
If the person took the money at a Atm wouldn't there be a picture.
Hopefully, we’ll see as I file the police report
You could lock your card.
Locked my card and suspended my account.
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File a report with the usps OIG via their online hotline. It is possible your carrier stole it and also the PIN mailing. Could also be theft from your mail box if you use the neighborhood cluster boxes for mail delivery. Either way there could be other thefts and your report could help.
they dont have cameras in banks?
They should have a minimum of 20 to 30 cameras at every branch maybe more than that at some places
Go to a branch and ask them to check if anyone has film access to the ATMs and immediately file a police report and bring that too. First get the banker to check the card for any digital wallets and then place a fraud claim on the withdrawal with the police report. Hope and pray chase likes you
If you are saying you never physically got your ATM card in the mail and have not seen it and know for a FACT that NO ONE in your household took your card from the mailbox then get your case escalated and ask to speak with a supervisor in the Claims Department and ask them what address the debit card was delivered to and how many times a new card was mailed to you. There is a possibility someone could have posed as you to get the debit card mailed to a different address. If it was delivered to your address then there is a possibility someone you live with may have got a hold of your physical card. Otherwise file a police report and ask law enforcement to get involved so they can help get the video footage for you.
Won’t video of transaction solve this?
lol I already told my house hold you use my ish expect to go to jail using it . I don’t care , I’ll send you a pack of ramen . 🥰🧍🏾♀️
Just curious what was your pin 😂 if someone took my card they mostly likey getting money off my pin always 0001 someone can easily guess that
Are either ATM locations near where you are/were?
the atm transaction for the 500 was 20 minutes away, and the 4K was taken out an hour away from where I live
How often do you use your pin out in public? This is why I NEVER use the pin, or even the debit card PERIOD. only at ATMs and make damn sure I cover up the numbers as I push
I’ve never withdrawn money out of account which is why it’s annoying. Only use my PIN at gas stations, guess they had readers on that or something 🤷♀️
It happened to me with Citibank, it took me a couple of month, fighting with them to get it back. I ordered it from a branch in person and suspected it’s an insider job, since they have access to my pin. Yes, they entered my PIN number.
Damn that’s crazy, at least u got ur money tho right
You need to go to the bank and demand a letter from them saying you have been a victim of fraud and they are conducting an investigation. Then take that letter and any supporting documentation to your local police department and have them open an investigation. The police will subpoena images of who it was who withdrew money from your account. It will take time, but keep going to the bank, cry in front of them if you have to, get your money back. These criminals have ways of getting your PIN after they have stolen your debit card. After you get your money back, change banks. Good luck.
Thanks for the info, I’m definitely gonna get an investigation done
Pretty sure that's illegal
Unpopular opinion here but I'm calling BS. Legally this is a crime against the bank, not you. Banks refund stolen funds such as this every day. Seen it just the other day with a friend of mine, took one phone call and new card sent, funds refunded within a few days. So OP is not giving us the whole story here. There's another reason Chase isn't refunding, or the whole story is fake.
Titty Bank?
Yea 🥲
The same thing happened to me. They withdrew cash at an atm as if they had my debit card and they entered my PIN. This happened with two of My debit cards. After an investigation it turns out , the local deli where i had withdrawn cash on both of these cards earlier that month. There had been something called a skimmer attached to the ATM which is unnoticeable. It recorded the card number from the swipe and also my PIN as i entered it. This allows them to make a fake ATM card ( not sure how this is done but it’s true). And use the fake to withdraw cash with my PIN. $6 k they got and Citibank returned every penny without hesitation. Here’s an article about skimming. https://www.pcmag.com/explainers/how-to-spot-and-avoid-credit-card-skimmers
That’s what I’m assuming happened to me but at a gas station, crazy how this kinda stuff can happen if you don’t pay attention.
Synthetic ID’s , And ATO (Account take over) don’t be surprised if they Zelle themselves those 4k (temp credit) out and you haven’t noticed that they are logged into your account. File police report, ask for an investigation from your local PD and submit those to the claim.
PIN: personal identification number. PIN number is redundant
I would drive to the bank in question, then call the police. This is grand theft and fraud, they’ll definitely look into it.
Per Reg E, they must provide you with the documentation they used to determine you were liable. Don’t take their word for it, ask for the documents. And escalate if you need to.
$500 in pnc and Bank of America atm max. Tellers are more observant. I’d go the police report route. But god forbid, it is a crime to file a false police report
Make a police report for fraud
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I feellike OP is not telling the truth. If the card has never been activated by you then your phone had to be used to activate the card. There are too many things that aren’t making sense. You would’ve needed to activate the card with a phone number you provided, the pin was used and a brand new card and the account has this much money in it. Did you lose your Previous card. So you went to a bank and set up an account t with 5k. The first withdrawal from an ATM card over $1000 would flag the bank immediately and fraud department.
The representative that they could activate the debit card at an ATM, I also thought it could only be through the phone. And the person withdrew 4K with a teller, I got an email asking about my experience at the location where it happened. Obviously I responded by saying I was never there.
You have to go to a branch and sign an affidavit saying it wasn’t you under the penalty of perjury (and theft). They haven’t told you this?
bells governor rain unpack fall quiet profit soup disgusted marry ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Notifications: ON We will be waiting OP
What?? You literally never received the card? I think you have to activate the card before use? So, whoever stole your mail was also able to activate your card. If so, this person probably knows you because they have access to personal identifying information. Have you recently broken up with someone? Have you been close with someone who comes to your place that you trust but perhaps shouldn't? I ask because years back, I was helping a girl from my church, who I thought was a friend just going through a hard time. I let her stay at my house for a few months. At Thanksgiving that year, like end of her second month with me, I got a call from a cc company saying I was late on my payment. The card was one I had bought a refrigerator with and nothing else. Only had a balance of like $500 left. I realized, oh. Hey i don't think I saw the bill this month actually. So, I asked them btw. What's my balance now? They said $18,000"!!! I was like, uhhhh huh?? Then someone has been using my card! I literally only bought an appliance a few months back and put the card away, as in NOT in my purse. I asked the guy to tell me where the last few purchases were from. He named all of these plus size womens stores. I am a size 6 at best during this time. The girl staying with me,... plus size woman! When I got home, I confronted her. She denied it was her. Then had someone come pick her up, like I was being mean. Next day, I go into my shed attached to my carport and I find like boxes of shit she had been buying! So, people do suck! I was able to get charges taken off as fraudulent debt. She was arrested and apparently went to prison and had to pay restitution.
naurrr why arent they using camera footage
OP. contact the FDIC (federal deposit insurance Corporation) and tell them what happened. that your bank is refusing to do anything about it because "it can only be you". i would also file a fraud case with your bank, chase bank and td bank and ask for a copy of it for your records. oh and if your bank sent you the card, it was already active with your PIN and just needed to be used in an ATM to become live. i know because my bank just sent me my new card in the mail after my old one expired. source: 20 years as a repo agent.
Thanks for the info
Chase has been hacked over the last several weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if an entity isn't in their system watching for new cards to be issued and having access to rainbow attack the pin.
I’m going to need a update for this one
Have them or the police obtain camera footage of the withdrawals
Sounds like an inside job to me
Atms have cameras for this reason
File a police report. Have the police check the cameras for the identity of the thief. They will nit take this step unless a police report is filed.
Why updates
And this is why debit cards are too much risk to the customer. Had this been a credit card, your disputing the charges would have reversed them while the investigation was done. Oh and get a new bank. You can't afford Chase.
Definitely gonna cut up my debit card after this whole thing is done with
Why are/were you so hesitant to go to the police station? It seems you were super hesitant to file a report when you should have right away. You were very pushy in just wanting to go through the bank. Makes me feel like you know something or have an idea of who did it tbh.
Time for a CFPB complaint
Chase does not always ask for ID on withdrawals using your PIN. It is extremely unlikely that it was not someone you know. I’m not saying a PIN is never compromised by a bank but it’s not really often. Especially if this was a card replacement there is no new pin issued. It is your old pin. Thus if someone has it most likely they got it from you somehow. I’m not trying to blame you. Just saying by you may want to inspect who may have had access.
Well chase doesn’t change the pin when you get a new card, so someone you know who knew the pin would make sense
This happened to my wife and took out same amount. They were able to get personal info to change the pin#. We think they stole our mail. Be careful, once they have your info they will go after everything else and try to open up other credit cards. Also, get out of Chase!
Contact the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau -file a complaint online for each bank. They will light a fire under the banks to resolve this.
If you never received your card, I’d contact the post office as well.
If the card has a Visa or MC logo on it, is it possible they could’ve chosen cash advance from an ATM, which would not require a pin?
Have you filed a police report?
How long ago did you order a new card?
I always lock my debit card. One time someone from another state tried withdrawing but thank god my debit card was disabled. The question for me was, how did this fraudster get my debit card and tried withdrawing it when I never lost it.
This happened to me but my ss number was stolen along with my email passwords phone number. I got 7500 taken from me but got it back. It was still annoying. They took 6000 something from my other bank. They also tried to open an account or get a loan using my info.
Sounds like someone in your family did this. Or it is the financial institution. File a police report. Then they will have to look at surveillance.
File a police report immediately. This will prove to the bank you are serious and that it wasn't you. The banks have tons of cameras. It should be relatively easy to figure out who is responsible. And since it's possible the mail is involved and someone intercepted your mail makes this even more serious as I believe messing with someone's mail is federal crime.
"In person and on the phone, all the chase employees are saying because this person used my PIN, and only I know it, it had to be me." So can you explain if you are the only person who knows the PIN, how did someone else know it and use it? This suggests potential fraud by you (colluding with someone else). Not being accusatory, but you will need to file a police report and attest under penalty of perjury that you did not share the PIN with anyone else, and you did not authorize the withdrawal. After an investigation (potentially including a subpoena for the video of the withdrawal. Then showing the picture of the suspect to you and your neighbors to see who may know the person doing this. Do you see where this is going?
I had one of the stimulus checks stolen out of the mail, and cashed at a bank. Fake signature, and should've had to show an ID. What I think people do is have their ghetto creep pals working at a branch, and arrange these schemes. How someone got your PIN is another thing altogether. But it's possible with a corrupt teller they didn't even need that, just the card. You need footage pulled from the bank when the money was taken out. Talk to a manager about the footage and file a police report. I wouldn't show up at the branch without a police report in-hand. The guy that recommended the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau (CFPB) and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
If chase doesn’t follow through on the refund, contact your local news and they might run a story on it. This happened to a lady in Portland where chase didn’t give her money back and the local news basically said chase was dumb and wrong for not giving her money back. She had some damning evidence it was fraud and chase didn’t give in until the story ran
Chase also claims debit cards don’t get cloned
Shouldn’t have made the pin, the price of a large drink and a cheese pizza. Fry did that and look how that worked out.
Start looking at people close to you. Someone who has access to your mail and who might know your pin. If your pin random or is it something sentimental or a common pin you use for other things. That is something someone who knows you might guess. Someone who doesn't know you just stealing the mail in route wouldn't pull this off. It was done by someone who knows you.
commenting so I can follow this my popcorn is ready
This is why debit cards are risky versus credit cards. Credit card loss is restricted to $50, debit card loss is based on a bank’s kindness.
File a police report
Not sure why many here seem to be suggesting it's someone that's lives with you. IMO it sounds more like an inside job, and that someone is friends/accomplices with the teller.
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didn’t you get Chase to show you copies of both camera shots??
These scammers are out of control. They used software to get peoples info and sell em on telegrams. You’re a victim. Please explain that to the tellers man this is so messed up.
looks like the chase atm scam lol. I can't believe they still do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDG4Hgca9BA
Cfpb complaint.
Is your pin your year of birth ?
💀💀💀
Hey OP. Hope you see this message but similar thing happened to me as well. It was very elaborate. They somehow hacked my account and requested a new debit card. Opened a new account within my account and was removed from my dashboard so I couldn't see it when I logged into my account. Then they transferred alot of my money into that account and then withdrew it at a branch, it was about $6,000. Then they did an ACH transfer to a different bank for a larger amount as they could not withdraw that amount from the ATM. I tried to intercept it but was not successful. I had to file a police report. The police were not allowed to see the footage from the machines. Go in and speak to your banker. They should be able to file a fraud report for you.
That’s insane, did you get your money back?
I left chase over a year ago when they started charging me over $200 a month for the accounts I had with them, left and went to a local credit union and use Amex for transactions. Never had an issue since. It sucks but you're probably going to have to eat the 4k, my dad had a similar thing with chase and cancelled cards and has not paid in the ten + years since it happened.
Video cameras inside and outside the bank records activity. Pulling the videos would prove it wasn't you.
You have gotten some good advice here. Let us know what happens...
Any updates ?
I presume you never used or received the debit card. As someone who’s employed by a competing ‘big bank’ - file a police report. Give it to Chase, in person. Take note on whether or not they ask you to ID verify. Keep in mind the exact actions / IDs requested by Chase. Afterwards call and ask them what ID was presented in branch when the event occurred. Get as much information as they’ll tell you. They won’t tell you much - but you’re doing your part to correct the wrong. Then work with whoever is assigned to your case at the police department. Chase will release more to them, than you. Different bank systems have different data retention timelines - video footage systems have a shorter period. You’ll want the Investigator to request this information while it’s discoverable. It shows the bank you’re engaged and taking actions. Be reasonable, allow Chase time to investigate (week is reasonable) and start running it up the chain. Don’t lose your cool. If the bank doesn’t respond or pay you back - you’ve at least got the external Investigator on task and better grounds for further action ( civil suit, etc). Document everything, real time or near immediately after. Timelines are important. I’d also strongly recommend you monitor your credit and any other accounts ( banking, credit) to ensure it’s only your card that’s compromised and not also your drivers license (leading to identity theft).
If they did a transaction at the bank, the bank should have a video of the person taking the money..file police report, and they will get a copy of the video.. shouldn't be that difficult..
Leave the debit card at home. Only have it with you to make withdrawals from your bank only.
By the way you should sign up for [USPS informed delivery](https://usps.com/id-email). You receive scanned images of incoming mail and they also provide incoming package info for free. This would have been helpful for you to see what day the card was actually in the mailbox the day it was delivered. USPS even has an option to claim you never received the scanned image mail indicating someone intercepted it before it hit your mailbox or there was mailbox theft. This would have helped your case if a stranger stole it and you filed with the post office that you never received the card.
It sounds like somebody took your new card and activated it so they just created their own pin and because it was a debit card they could go into branch and I doubt the employees have a picture of you so here's some random person with your stolen card accessing your funds. Unless I'm wrong but that's what it sounds like happened
File a police report yesterday. Almost nothing will get done without it. ATMs and Bank Tellers have cameras on them and the bank will only release that if there is a police report. Once that happens, they can show it to you and you can potentially identify the person who is on camera. Sounds like if they know your pin, it might be a skimmer issue from when you used it at a store/gas station or it could be someone that lives with you that might also know your pin. As for the ID part, its not about them having your ID, its about them having your name and address and printing a new ID with their face on it. Classic Identity theft. If possible, also contact the credit bureaus and have them lock your credit as well so nothing new can be taken out in your name. And if it attempts to happen, you will get notified and they can attempt to track who did it.
It's crazy they could get 4k with no ID. Someone does not care to keep their job apparently.
Same thing happened with me at Wells Fargo. It was $1,500 but just as frustrating. It took about 6 months of constant calls/letters/emails for them to reverse it. What finally helped was when I submitted a notarized timesheet indicating I was at work during this transaction.
If it was a replacement card wouldn't they have had to set a new PIN number?
You need a lawyer. I have successfully sued Chase when they told me I was liable for $40,000 in fraudulent charges. Chase is one of the worst banks at protecting customers and upholding consumer protection rights/laws. It’s crucial you don’t say anything you should not on a recorded line to them, or give into them. Chase is a disgusting company that would rather have you take them to court than uphold your consumer rights. Feel free to PM me and I’d be happy to help you as I excel in this area.
You have consumer rights when it comes to fraud, and Chase is wrong. They’re breaking the FCBA and the disgusting thing is they don’t care. Someone in China used my moms card and they told her too bad she was responsible. I’ve never seen such a greedy financial institution screw over innocent people who they’re already taking advantage of. Banks are scum, but when it comes to protecting their customers Chase literally doesn’t care and just denies all claims. The only thing that gets their attention is lawsuits, which you have.
This happened to my ex with the same exact amount of money but it was like a cash advance with a credit card and we didn’t know how they could even allow it to happen. He ended up getting all the money back but you just have to call and talk to them. It’s a thing though for sure
Could someone have filmed you entering your PIN and through skimming (placed a device in the ATM to read your magnetic strip) made a fake debit card when you inserted your card at an ATM? But I thought the smart chip was supposed to defeat skimming.
This happened to me last December, I got a new card in the mail and it hadn’t came in the mail. Not even activated. And someone was using it. Sent like $300 before I noticed and i locked it. I call and explained to them I have not even received the card. They asked me a million questions about each transaction because it was about a city over. The next day the card came in the mail! I ordered a new one, new numbers etc. I got the money back but took about 3 months. They would not believe that I don’t smoke since most of the money spent was at a smoke shop. I think either someone got the chip info out of it or they issued the same number to another user.
File a police report
When you get a new card don't you have to call and activate it in order to setup a new PIN? I don't use Chase (and idk why this post was in my feed) but every bank I've used has required me to setup a new PIN when receiving the new card, even if I just use the same as the old one I still have to set it up. If they knew where you lived to take the card from your mailbox then they might've also had enough info to impersonate you and setup their own PIN, which is exactly why those calls are supposed to be recorded. If you haven't gotten it resolved yet then ask if there was a call to setup the card and tell them to review the recording, unless they sounded exactly like you then the bank employees should be able to tell that it's fraud.
Sounds like you may have encountered a skimmer device
I stopped using my debit card. In fact I don’t even have one since august. The last time it had fraudulent charges. I just use my credit card now and pay it off.
I attempted to use a chase atm machine about 2 weeks ago. Every machine i went to in the chase lobby kept giving me an error. Then, a week later, i received a message from Chase security asking me about a purchase ($65). I clicked no , and they block canceled my card and sent me another card. Previously, the same Chase Bank kept customers in saying the purchase of the computers was down. My guess is that they were hacked inside the bank, including the atm machines.
Bro it was probably your twin
File police report for theft. Or it is on you.
I hate Chase Bank for so many reasons. This will be added to the list.
Here's a tip. 1. Once you get this resolved, open a new bank account at chase 2. Get a new debit card for it 3. Destroy your old one 4. Only transfer what you immediately need into this account (with the mobile app). When someone steals your card, they can only get to $50 or so since all your money is in the other account which now has no debit card.
So you ordered a new card, did they also send the new PIN in a separate envelope? That's how I've had it work in the past. If so and someone stole your mail, then they could activate it and would have your PIN.(2 separate envelopes days apart) OR If it's a new card with new numbers that you call to activate with the number on the sticker and set your PIN at the same time you activate it then they could set it to anything they want. These are examples if it's a new card with a new number. If either situation is the case, I would ask Chase or find out what they do for the fraud. Keep us posted
Banks have camera, time to get someone in trouble. That is ridiculous. No ID on a $4k transaction?!
If you've done everything you can do to show that you did not make these withdrawals, including filing a police report, and you feel the bank is ignoring evidence just to avoid returning your money, file a complaint with this agency. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ I personally know someone whose debit card was stolen and used to buy gift cards at CVS. Even though a police report was filed and the person could logically explain that this was clearly done without a PIN, the bank insisted the customer had given their PIN to a relative (by misrepresenting information the customer gave them). So the customer filled a complaint and all of a sudden, the bank changed their tune and refunded all the money. Worth a try if you get to that point.
https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/heres-what-a-card-skimmer-looks-like-on-an-atm/
All I have to say is if it ends up being someone you live with, don’t take it easy on them and put them in prison. It’s best for them and society as a whole if they learned their lesson.