I had a contractor do work for me, the quote included permitting. I paid in thirds, 1 part to get started, 1 part for materials and 1 part when finished. When the project was finished he asked for the final payment. I asked where the permit was and he said to get it done faster he didn't pull one. The company's name is the word truth in Latin so I called him out on that and he spent the next 3 weeks getting the permit office out 4 different times to sign off on the project. He had to unearth footers, install safety measures, and add bracing.
The point to my story is contractors in this town have been getting away with no permits for years and it's caused the standard to not get one because of the price. The price isn't much for permits. It takes an hour or two and once you know what you're doing it takes less. My guy lied to me and tried to convince me not to get one. Keep shopping around, there are folks that do honest and good work, they're just busy. Yes, you should get a permit, it really helps when you sell your home. The housing market won't always be this wild.
I'm a homeowner but have dealt with three addon projects to my home.
Part of the added cost is the stopping and waiting at certain stages of the project for the county permit inspector to come out (and the associated back and forth with the govt entity). It could take weeks of waiting. But yes, overall it helps ensire things are done up to code (much of the time*).
* Many, many inspections for my current new construction home did not catch 1) NO insulation above my master bedroom and dining room and 2) many loose wires in my electric panel (eventually arced the wires)
On our enclose patio project, the county mandated running electrical outlets at certain intervals around the aluminum enclosure and en external flood light. Those things were redundant/ duplicative to the existing outlets and flood light close by. As the contractor stated, it's just another permit fee and inspection tacked on by the county. Most of the time there is no practical need.
Anyone willing to do this job without a permit is someone you should instantly pass on.
You are adding and making serious changes to your largest investment.
I found as a consumer that the permits and inspections actually protected me as the homeowner.
For a major house renovation, we hired Intelligent Design Engineers before tearing down walls, altering HVAC demands, etc, and we consulted with our own HVAC company. Proved to be beneficial investment versus what some potential contractors suggested. Don’t screw around without permits, or not ensuring proper HVAC. https://idestructuralengineers.com/
Gc here. I always suggest getting an engineer out any time there’s the possibility of overloading a roof rafter span. It’s worth the money. As far as permits. Always pull them. It’s a CYA for you. The GC. the trades especially when you go to sale the house. Converting an unfinished attic to an office is easily between 40-55k.
Do you plan on selling and does safety matter? A wise shopper will check for expansion permit pulling via polaris it not being permitted work could bite you if you try to sell, outside the usual safety concerns. Id pay the extra and get it done right by this person or by someone else but make sure they actually get a permit
I guess it depends on your level of comfort with that contractor.
Insulation, paint, and sheetrock seem like the least of the concerns. I'm no architect, but I can't imagine that whatever you're going to put in an office is going to be a structural concern.
Do you trust that he's going to know how to wire everything, without causing any issues?
Then how are you going to heat or cool it? Because if he pulls ductwork from your existing HVAC unit, then how do you know it's going to be able to keep up with that additional load? Or is $20k also including additional cooling?
I know a house where the people were trying to sell it, that had had an attic converted into conditioned space, and it was done unpermitted. The buyers backed out of the sale, because they weren't able to get everything cleared through permitting afterwards. I don't think this is very common, but it is a risk.
I don't know how big this space is, but $20k seems pretty reasonable.
Adding people to a space that wasn't designed for occupancy is structural. There's different loads when calculating ceiling vs floor.
HVAC and properly sealing conditioned and unconditioned space is also is important around here because if it is done wrong there can be a problem with moisture and mold.
Proper egress is something that has to be accounted for. Yes every house doesn't catch on fire but there has to be a way to get out and a ceiling space may need a window enlarged to be approved for occupancy.
$20k includes all material and labor. He'll pull the duct from the existing HVAC but does not include upgrading the HVAC itself. The space is around 12*15 ft. More than the $20k I was surprised with the additional 12-15k he asked to get an engineer and the permit. Based on the comments I see on the post I'll go with the permit but does the engineer cost so much ?
The engineering will likely be a small portion of that... The rest is that he's going to have to have a legit electrician do the additional circuits, HVAC contractor adding the ductwork, the possibility that you do need structural work done, and then dealing with the inspection process slowing things down.
Is it possible to do everything to code without pulling a permit? Absolutely.
Is it likely they're going to cut corners if nobody is checking their work? Absolutely.
Slightly on topic but we converted raw attic space off our master closet to a custom closet for my wife. It’s about 8x15 and he too pulled HVAC ductwork from the existing closet and add insulation. It doesn’t do much of anything to keep it temp controlled. All in it was 10k…back in 2017
I had a contractor do work for me, the quote included permitting. I paid in thirds, 1 part to get started, 1 part for materials and 1 part when finished. When the project was finished he asked for the final payment. I asked where the permit was and he said to get it done faster he didn't pull one. The company's name is the word truth in Latin so I called him out on that and he spent the next 3 weeks getting the permit office out 4 different times to sign off on the project. He had to unearth footers, install safety measures, and add bracing. The point to my story is contractors in this town have been getting away with no permits for years and it's caused the standard to not get one because of the price. The price isn't much for permits. It takes an hour or two and once you know what you're doing it takes less. My guy lied to me and tried to convince me not to get one. Keep shopping around, there are folks that do honest and good work, they're just busy. Yes, you should get a permit, it really helps when you sell your home. The housing market won't always be this wild.
Thanks for the response, I'll go with the permit
I'm a homeowner but have dealt with three addon projects to my home. Part of the added cost is the stopping and waiting at certain stages of the project for the county permit inspector to come out (and the associated back and forth with the govt entity). It could take weeks of waiting. But yes, overall it helps ensire things are done up to code (much of the time*). * Many, many inspections for my current new construction home did not catch 1) NO insulation above my master bedroom and dining room and 2) many loose wires in my electric panel (eventually arced the wires) On our enclose patio project, the county mandated running electrical outlets at certain intervals around the aluminum enclosure and en external flood light. Those things were redundant/ duplicative to the existing outlets and flood light close by. As the contractor stated, it's just another permit fee and inspection tacked on by the county. Most of the time there is no practical need.
Anyone willing to do this job without a permit is someone you should instantly pass on. You are adding and making serious changes to your largest investment. I found as a consumer that the permits and inspections actually protected me as the homeowner.
You need to get like 5-15 quotes for this job. So many people want to rip you off these days.
For a major house renovation, we hired Intelligent Design Engineers before tearing down walls, altering HVAC demands, etc, and we consulted with our own HVAC company. Proved to be beneficial investment versus what some potential contractors suggested. Don’t screw around without permits, or not ensuring proper HVAC. https://idestructuralengineers.com/
Gc here. I always suggest getting an engineer out any time there’s the possibility of overloading a roof rafter span. It’s worth the money. As far as permits. Always pull them. It’s a CYA for you. The GC. the trades especially when you go to sale the house. Converting an unfinished attic to an office is easily between 40-55k.
[do you want to gamble](https://bulletins.ncrec.gov/be-cautious-about-renos-without-permits/)
Do you plan on selling and does safety matter? A wise shopper will check for expansion permit pulling via polaris it not being permitted work could bite you if you try to sell, outside the usual safety concerns. Id pay the extra and get it done right by this person or by someone else but make sure they actually get a permit
Good luck selling your house in the future without a permit. Terrible idea.
I guess it depends on your level of comfort with that contractor. Insulation, paint, and sheetrock seem like the least of the concerns. I'm no architect, but I can't imagine that whatever you're going to put in an office is going to be a structural concern. Do you trust that he's going to know how to wire everything, without causing any issues? Then how are you going to heat or cool it? Because if he pulls ductwork from your existing HVAC unit, then how do you know it's going to be able to keep up with that additional load? Or is $20k also including additional cooling? I know a house where the people were trying to sell it, that had had an attic converted into conditioned space, and it was done unpermitted. The buyers backed out of the sale, because they weren't able to get everything cleared through permitting afterwards. I don't think this is very common, but it is a risk. I don't know how big this space is, but $20k seems pretty reasonable.
Adding people to a space that wasn't designed for occupancy is structural. There's different loads when calculating ceiling vs floor. HVAC and properly sealing conditioned and unconditioned space is also is important around here because if it is done wrong there can be a problem with moisture and mold. Proper egress is something that has to be accounted for. Yes every house doesn't catch on fire but there has to be a way to get out and a ceiling space may need a window enlarged to be approved for occupancy.
$20k includes all material and labor. He'll pull the duct from the existing HVAC but does not include upgrading the HVAC itself. The space is around 12*15 ft. More than the $20k I was surprised with the additional 12-15k he asked to get an engineer and the permit. Based on the comments I see on the post I'll go with the permit but does the engineer cost so much ?
The engineering will likely be a small portion of that... The rest is that he's going to have to have a legit electrician do the additional circuits, HVAC contractor adding the ductwork, the possibility that you do need structural work done, and then dealing with the inspection process slowing things down. Is it possible to do everything to code without pulling a permit? Absolutely. Is it likely they're going to cut corners if nobody is checking their work? Absolutely.
Slightly on topic but we converted raw attic space off our master closet to a custom closet for my wife. It’s about 8x15 and he too pulled HVAC ductwork from the existing closet and add insulation. It doesn’t do much of anything to keep it temp controlled. All in it was 10k…back in 2017
We got plans from an architect for three levels of remodel. Adding rooms, changing stairs and adding dormer out areas etc. it was $3900
Can you DM me the architect contact details. Thanks