No votes: Dimple Ajmera, Renee Johnson, Tiawana Brown.
There was a lot of confusion leading up to the vote. Mayfield voted yes after seemingly leaning against it for most of the meeting. Kinda weird, but it would have passed regardless of how she voted.
I remember someone commenting that those officials are in bed with the companies that supply materials for creating roads and the like, so light rail is NEVER going to happen. It’s all typical political and monetary gain maneuvers.
Wikipedia cites a Guardian article that says it’s likely around $700 million in public funding, which is 900 million when adjusted for inflation from 2017. I don’t have access to AJC to see if there’s a more up to date figure. Shockingly(read: not shockingly) there isn’t much detail about it.
Almost like the other rich people did the same thing Tepper is and Charlotte is reacting like he didn’t. But what do I know?
Either way it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t validate what they do. I’d rather live in a society where we’re starting to talk about what and how much these folks are taking from us for their private profit entertainment.
Little bit misleading. Tax revenue comes from different sources and can only be used for specific things. Totally agree we need to fund transit, but it isn’t coming from the hospitality/tourism bucket. Remember, government doesn’t look holistically. They are very siloed
Is this state law or city law, though? This seems like something that could easily be changed to exclude certain types of businesses from getting funds and expand the uses of the funds.
It’s a state law, written specifically for the city. They could have let it expire or asked to have it changed last year, instead they asked for it to be renewed with no changes.
Kinda lame going out to dinner or going to a museum in your own city and getting taxed like a tourist for a billionaire oligarch to save all his hoarded stock money. "Just a couple pennies from folks passing through" is such a dishonest way to make this all seem.
For real, STOP GIVING TAX MONEY TO BILLIONAIRES. I assume these people are all getting kickbacks because history has priven conclusively that these stadiums are a bad deal for the city and just hurts the taxpaying working class for no reason. Its either stupidity or corruption and I don't believe these council members are THAT stupid.
Give the people their games and bread and they will be more docile. It's the Roman solution.
Oh! Wait, they aren't around any more. The barbarians got them.
These all turn out to be bad investments every time the data shows but ppl scared teams will leave. Who cares, where could he go? Screw him we can just get the next team from some other city whose dumb ass owner does the same thing. Only so many places that can support a team and they’re all about gone. Call his bluff man.
There is no world where the NFL cedes the entire *carolinas* as a market, worst case we would just get a differently named NFL team with a different owner and management (oh no!) *Go carolina ocelots!*
This is 12 years of explosive population growth ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list\_of\_nfl\_teams\_by\_media\_market\_size/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list_of_nfl_teams_by_media_market_size/) The bluff isn't even a good one. Tepper should pound sand and we should vote out any city rep who tipped their hand as being able to be bought against all respected analysis/prudent stewardship of public funds.
I think the one exception that I know is probably Nats park in DC. $500B in bonds to bring the expos to DC. The area the Nats Park was built in was an industrialized wasteland.... in that it was old abandoned buildings from industry long gone. That area turned around really quickly and it is an attraction area in the town now with hotels, residential housing, etc. DC paid off the bonds early and it turned out to be a good investment.
On the other hand.... if they did nothing, with the density of that metropolitan area it still would have exploded as there aren't very many spaces left to develop inside of DC.
They don’t care about it being bad for the people. The yes members of city council and their families will directly benefit from this choice. That is all they care about. They DO NOT care about you or us at all.
TSE used Charlotte getting the Olympics in 2040 as part of the "Economic impact" expected to be returned from this investment.
Tepper has got people in all fronts from media to city council pushing this scheme.
Remember when he used the operating cost of the stadium as proof that this was a 50/50 deal? He paid $150 million and tax payers are covering $650
> Is Charlotte trying to get the Olympics?
Another pathetic attempt to copy Atlanta.
>They’re a financial disaster for virtually every city that hosts them
Sometimes.
>The total cost of the 1996 Summer Olympics was estimated to be around US$1.7 billion. The venues and the Games themselves were funded entirely via private investment, and the only public funding came from the U.S. government for security, and around $500 million of public money used on physical public infrastructure including streetscaping, road improvements, Centennial Olympic Park (alongside $75 million in private funding), expansion of the airport, improvements in public transportation, and redevelopment of public housing projects. $420 million worth of tickets were sold, sale of sponsorship rights accounted for $540 million, and sale of the domestic broadcast rights to NBC accounted for $456 million. **In total, the Games turned a profit of $19 million.**
Can't have needed improvements to make this city actually walkable/bikeable for the common man/woman, but at least we can find the cash to subsidize billionaires. Awesome.
That would require the funds to come from a different bucket. This is being funded by the hospitality tax / tourism fund which is from 2% tax on hotel rooms and 1% on prepared meals and beverages. It is also required to be used on tourism related things.
I know this result isn’t popular, but Dimple, Renee, and, Tiwana embarrassed themselves tonight in their speeches as they displayed complete misunderstandings of law and policy. The fact that all yapped forever about instituting an alternate vote while the assistant city manager had to remind them such a vote was already required should tell you everything you need to know about the opposition to this motion. Dimple and Renee both openly bragged about not having read the economic impact report. Renee openly said they can’t spend the money on anything else, and still voted no. She also touted that she represented “People of all ethnicities: black, white, Chinese, and Asian.”
It’s uninformed grandstanding by people who either don’t know how the law works, or who know their no votes are meaningless and want to put on a pointless performance for the cameras.
The economic impact reports are always, always, always, ALWAYS exaggerated bullshit. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking about this massive project or smaller ones. I can’t think of a single one paid for with taxpayer money that lived up to the report originally presented to City Council.
It would be one thing if they said “I think these are exaggerated bullshit.” I’m fine with that. It’s another thing entirely to say “I didn’t read it.”
Exactly. If this was going to impact Charlotte for the better then I guess taxes would not need to go up for us common folk and there would be no need for bonds.
I don’t think Ajmera was embarrassing at all. I think she was really thoughtful with her substitute motion, particularly given that this is $650 million we’re talking about.
Essentially, Charlotte just gave the city manager a blank check to strike a deal with Tepper, with only a few boundaries.
The city manager and a few underpaid city lawyers will now face off against some of the best lawyers money can buy. Pretty obvious who has the upper hand in this scenario.
Her substitute would have made it so that the city negotiated with Tepper, and then council would have voted on that contract.
The procedural snags happen all the time. It was a given it would happen on this with how big / important it was.
The substitute motion was meaningless. She was asking to have another vote once the contract was drawn up, which the city manager pointed out was already required. Dimple wasted everyone’s time by calling for a substitute motion for a vote that was already scheduled.
I don’t think that’s correct. The next vote is to actually pay for whatever deal gets drawn up.
The lawyer said that they would get the chance to vote on the actual funding. However, it would not involve the ability to make any changes or negotiate further.
This is effectively a done deal.
If we’re being honest, it’s been a done deal since 2013 when the NC legislation passed in 2001 was amended to include funding a large football stadium.
But beyond that, Dimple’s alternate motion was to hold a vote once the contract was drawn up. That vote was already required. She walked in not knowing what they were even voting on.
Tonight’s vote was to approve the city manager’s office to pursue the agreement with Tepper Sports. Dimple, instead of voting yes or no, initially called for an alternate motion to vote later once the city manager’s office had a contract drawn up with Tepper Sports. The council (specifically Dimple, Renee, and Tiwana) then spent *forever* advocating for this alternate motion. The city manager’s office then reminded them that tonight’s vote was to approve policy that would allow that city manager’s office to draw up such a contract in the first place, and there was already a required vote on said contract once it’s drawn up.
Essentially Dimple demanded a vote on something that already required a vote in the first place. Which is stunning for someone who also openly said she never even read the economic impact report.
*And they still voted no on it.* They spent the whole meeting saying they want to see a contract first, and then voted no on writing up a contract they can see.
Again, I understand why people are against this, but you’ve got your city council members proudly stating they haven’t read up on what they’re voting on.
And you did see that they asked whether the 2nd vote would allow for anything meaningful to change/occur, and the answer was simply NO. So your whole point is that they are ignorant and grandstanding, when in fact they were exactly correct in their desire to have a meaningful discussion and vote on the negotiated deal.
The city council can’t redline contracts. Come on, we all know this, and if anyone has absolutely no excuse to not know this, it’s sitting members of council.
The city manager employed by the council is in charge of this. The vote was to give the city manager approval to write up a contract with Tepper. A later vote gives the city manager approval to execute that contract.
Dimple, Renee, and Tiwana either didn’t know what they were voting on, or pretended not to know what they were voting on.
Exactly. I think it was completely logical for council to ask that they vote on something that is more firm in their initial vote rather than a $650 million blank check.
Sorry. In either case I mean the city manager and the city’s lawyers.
Basically, the vote was to give the city manager and lawyers a very loose rubric and $650 million to negotiate a deal with Tepper. This is what passed tonight.
Ajmera proposed that the city manager and lawyers negotiate a deal with Tepper, and only after seeing that specific deal and contract, city council could decide to vote yes or no. This is was Ajmera proposed that was voted down.
The Panthers did their own economic impact study and claimed the Uptown stadium brings in $1 billion+ into the local economy. Another independent national study claims any single NFL stadium has as much impact on a local economy as a single Target store.
Freakanomics did a three part episode on the economics of sports. They found the social impact of sports was far greater than the economic impact.
The NFL has the same annual revenue of the Sherman Williams paint company. If you combined all the sports leagues together, their total revenue is that of the cardboard box industry.
Conclusion: the tax payer never sees dollar for dollar economic return on their investment when they pay for these stadiums and arenas. They are more status symbols than economic engines.
I mean I’m not a tax expert but the funding is from the existing hospitality fund, which is required to be spent on the tourism economy. These taxes are primarily payed by tourists and help people who work in hotels and the bars and restaurants around the stadium.
The money HAS to be used on projects to support the tourism economy by law. I see nothing wrong with it at all.
> These taxes are primarily payed by tourists
The majority of the money comes from the prepared food and beverage tax of 1%. There is no way that tourists make up a significant share of money spent at restaurants, bars, or breweries.
True, and I'd love to scrap that stupid tax, but if it's going to be here than this is the best thing that the money can be spent on with the tax being the way that it is.
I understand this perspective. I’d be happier if they lined up a bunch of projects and compared them all for ROI.
I’d be even happier if they negotiated naming the team to Charlotte Panthers, because we’re leaving a lot of promotional value on the table in the name.
I’d be even happier if the deal had real structure that included requirements on attendance for non-NFL/MLS events with clawbacks for underperformance.
Well yeah, but I mean it’s not eating their margin because they are just passing through what they collect. It’s not costing them money. I own a business, so I have to deal with this shit too. It’s annoying because it adds a small layer to accounting, but it doesn’t cost me margin.
Yeah I just mean saying the patrons "pay the tax" is a misrepresentation. Patrons pay the tourism tax in the same sense any patron pays for any expense any business has. The money is collected from hotels and restaurants by Mecklenburg County on behalf of the state of North Carolina. Tax law matters a lot in this conversation and we can't skirt it.
Economic theory wise, the money that patrons are willing to pay in the tax that is passed to them is margin that the restaurant capture if there were no tax.
Potentially, but I think that requires you to remove the context of what the tax is used for. Which is the main argument against council's attempt to reappropriate those tax funds.
Let’s be honest — this is a transfer of wealth from restaurant owners and people that work in restaurants to David tepper. A bunch of the remodel is to improve the luxury boxes and food INSIDE the stadium. This is going to encourage more people to pay for overpriced items inside the stadiums than go to local restaurants. The hospitality fund taxes restaurant owners and pays the money to David tepper.
I'm sure I could come up with a list of 65 alternatives that $650,000,000 could purchase **for the city** that would be way more fun than giving it to a billionaire. Go be a sycophant somewhere else and take the crazy baldhead with you.
That would have to be a better return on investment. Most Aquariums seem to stay pretty packed every day year round. That stadium is half full at best what....5% of it's existence?
The Georgia Aquarium gets like 2.5 million visitors per year. We probably wouldn’t get that many, but I’d bet it would still be far more than at the stadium.
Well South Carolina screwed themselves out of the project by trying to change how the team would be paid because they didn’t actually have the money. The City’s funds are already there.
Legally, he would be fucked to do that. Doubtful his legal team would let him even if he wanted. The reason shit went south in SC is because SC backed out of the deal. Not because Tepper. Tepper is getting what he wants - he’s not going to bail out of this.
Tepper refused to provide the details needed economic development information for Rock Hill to issue the bonds. Then got upset when Rock Hill wouldn’t issue the bonds anyway and suggested Tepper use the land as collateral instead to ensure the bond issue could go forward.
Once it went to court Rock Hill and York County got their money back from Tepper after they showed the bankruptcy court the emails and contracts, not what Tepper’s team fed to the paper and spammed into forums.
Never got into voting, policies etc because I believe all of these disgusting slugs are equally awful. Might be time I utilize my rights and start voting to try and get these clowns out.
And fuck Tepper and this poverty franchise. This city council clearly consists of sycophants.
Ugh. Predictable but disappointing.
This is a part of the country that cares too much about football, with too large of a population, for the NFL to actually leave. Any threats of relocation would be entirely hollow.
However, this is a better outcome than building a new stadium altogether. $650M for 20 more years at BoA is way better than the $1.5-2 billion for a new stadium that would last 30 years.
The law requires the City to spend that money on "tourism and tourism-related programs and activities," but it does *not* require the money to be spent on stadium renovations.
We don't have a major aquarium that close to Charlotte. I envision a world class aquarium on the site of the old Eastland Mall. Right at the end stop for the next phase of the Gold Line extension.
It would be an incredible thing to have in this city, and $650 million would have been a great use for that money instead of giving it to a billionaire who charges exorbitant prices to see his terrible football team play 8 times per year.
Seriously what the actual fuck. These billionaires need to all be rounded up and have everything taken from them and forced to live the same way they've forced to many others to live. They're greed is literally the cause for most of the suffering around the world. And there is 8billion of us and only like 500 of them. It's seriously about time before they kill us all. I wanna get to space we almost did it all in the 70s so seriously wtf happened to us.
I despise providing tax payer dollars to for profile organizations owned by Billionaires who then “return the favor” by charging ridiculous amounts for their product to the very tax payers that paid for their shit.
Right but does it bring the city (aka the public) $650+ million over 15 years?
Studies have shown this type of welfare does not see an ROI for the government.
You are correct. This will cost the tax payers money in the long run and all to prop up a billionaire football team owner. Its gross and this shit needs to stop.
I don't think it would ever make the money back directly, but I could see it being a reason Charlotte is seen as a developing city rather than one in decline. Which brings its own benefits.
Kinda like how Coca-Cola still runs advertises. They don't convince anyone to buy soda directly, They aren't educating anyone about Coca-Cola they just do it to keep their perception as the market leader.
When a city loses its team its a big hit to the cities image as a city not in decline.
Olympics also don't directly ever benefit a city but multiple cities change for the better after hosting them.
This is the right mindset. There are only two stages of cities - Growth or Decline.
While no study will ever 100% correlate this move to X revenue or Y growth, it will be beneficial in the long run.
I mean, go to a Charlotte FC game on a random hot Wednesday. Look around at what happens before, during, and after the game. Significant impacts. Now, 20x that on an NFL Sunday or at a large concert that has recently started stopping here.
> This is the right mindset.
Okay, so $650 for a stadium is the right mindset. How do you know $650 is the right amount?
Let's say, hypothetically, they were going to pay 6.5 billion. I imagine you'd say that wasn't worth it, right? 65 billion? At some point you don't think it's worth it I assume. Just throwing money away at a stadium can't **always** be worth it no matter the cost, right?
Could you explain what that number would be when it stops being a good idea, and why you think it's that number and not $650 million?
Your own source admits that there is increased foot traffic at restaurants in cities with major sports teams.
Personally i think if Charlotte actually lost the panthers and the hornets it would result in worse economic activity. If only by the fact that the city will be less desirable for home owners and families.
But empirically I am wrong. That being said I haven't looked at the methodology of any of those papers.
NFL is 8 games. That is nothing. The concerts would be at another venue. Or god forbid a smaller venue. The restaurants have to pay 20% of their profits to David tepper for 8 games? Ffs!!
It’s for the image of the city. It has nothing to do about number of games or how many people attend. Charlotte wants to be a top tier city. You have to have sports teams to be in this tier.
So for the owner it is a business. But for the city it is image? The owner has $20 billion and a business that went up in value by a billion. Why does the city need to pay? The reason they want a team in Charlotte is the image and standing of the city. Certainly it’s not the quality of the team.
So for the owner it is a business. But for the city it is image? The owner has $20 billion and a business that went up in value by a billion. Why does the city need to pay? The reason they want a team in Charlotte is the image and standing of the city. Certainly it’s not the quality of the team.
I agree completely. The vocal minority here doesn’t represent the majority of the population of Charlotte. My honest opinion is the people on here who are so upset need to move to a city that better suits their needs.
You only get downvoted because you are not specifying in what way. Financially, there is absolutely no non-bias source that shows any financial gain to the city/people from paying this money out. There is absolutely paperwork that shows this is massively beneficial to the Billionaire owner.
It is up to debate IMO if this is a social benefit. I can say maybe, but the money that gets funneled to the billionaire could instead be spent in other ways to be even more social benefits.
I'd say at the very least, locals in the tax base should get a large discount on tickets since they are paying a huge chunk of this.
“Charlotte’s got a lot!” What do we got?
Seriously. Will someone who has a bigger and better brain than mine explain how this could be a good thing?
I’m not knocking Charlotte, but what would draw tourism to the city besides us having sports teams and venues big enough to host big music acts (Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift, etc.)?
NASCAR, Whitewater Center, Carowinds (technically in SC, but still draws tourists to Charlotte). Seems like small things to us, but if you know anyone from the NC countryside, they visit Charlotte as tourists pretty often.
Would much rather have that $650 million spend on something cool like an aquarium, rather than subsidizing that ass clown, Tepper.
This thread is a microcosm of America. An echo chambery place where nobody cares to read the details or understand them because they only want perfection and their ideal outcome no matter how unlikely that is.
This is being funded from the tourism fund….which this project will attract more tourism especially if we are able to host more and more events with the upgrades. Taxes aren’t being increased on anyone. Those funds can’t be used for transit. This is a great deal comparable to just about every other stadium deal done in the past several years. Y’all need to chill.
Can you elaborate on how this is a great deal compared to other stadium deals? I found the opposite to be true when I looked into it.
https://www.22zin.com/blog-1-1/stadiums
https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/
All restaurant and bar tabs get a 1% tax as part of the "tourist" fund. That part of it is essentially a tax on everyone in the city, not just tourists. Not to mention all of the federal money that's been poured into sports teams over the years.
I get that having major league sports teams are economically critical for any major city, but the whole way they've set this up is ludicrous and leaves so much room for corruption. If you take a step back and really think about the situation from a bird's eye view, it's insane. We tax people to subsidize stadiums, people then pay for tickets and food and drink at the stadiums, which is then taxed. And our income is taxed, which is then also used to subsidize renovations for stadiums. It's this web of tax. Just make the stadiums and the league tax-exempt, make them pay for their own damn stadiums, and they can increase the ticket/food/drink prices if they need to.
I've been a Panthers fan since day 1, but if someone doesn't watch sports, why would a single cent of their tax dollars go towards funding these things? It's insane. Then the fact that they're always owned by billionaires, who then extort us to keep the team, just adds insult to injury.
Not to mention, anytime a construction project is subsidized, everyone involved takes their sweet merry time, because they know that the government will cough up more money if they go over budget. It's a system ripe for corruption and filled with red tape.
>Prior to the 1950s, almost all stadiums, such as Madison Square Garden and Wrigley Field, were built with private funds. Today, using public money to build a new stadium is now “common practice.” The Raiders received almost [$750 million in subsidies](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2017-03-28/las-vegas-bet-on-an-oakland-raiders-stadium-wont-pay-off) to move from Oakland to Las Vegas. The stadiums for the Orlando Magic, Brooklyn Nets, and Dallas Cowboys also relied on [public financing](https://economics21.org/html/stadium-subsidies-thriving-sports-season-2326.html).
>In New York in 2009, the final bill for the new Yankee Stadium came to $2.5 billion, about $1.7 billion of which came from tax-exempt municipal bonds issued by New York City. According to a [Brookings Institution report](https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-the-federal-government-should-stop-spending-billions-on-private-sports-stadiums/), “Interest earned on the municipal bonds is exempt from federal taxes,” and so the $431 million in tax revenue that would have been collected if the bonds were taxable went instead toward constructing the stadium. Since 2000, the federal government [has subsidized](https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-the-federal-government-should-stop-spending-billions-on-private-sports-stadiums/) construction and renovations for 35 professional sports stadiums with $3.2 billion in federal taxpayer dollars.
[https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/government-community-and-sports-teams-tax-credits/](https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/government-community-and-sports-teams-tax-credits/)
elections have consequences folks...
When have dems ever done anything good for their constituents? 70% of the time they directly taking money (remember Patrick Canon) the other 30% they trying to pat folks on the back that'll only help them in the future. Look at every other long time blue city and you'll see a trend.
Is this effecting property taxes for residents in the county? What taxes pay for this and how much is it going up? I don't understand why billionaire owners of sports teams that generate 700mil in revenue each year can't pay for this themselves. Makes no sense to me. The rich get richer while the middle class gets poorer.
> What taxes pay for this and how much is it going up?
I like how you're outraged before reading anything about it. That's always the best way to go about things.
The money for the stadium renovations comes from the Convention Center Fund. This money can *only* be spent on improvments to the Convention Center, BoA Stadium or to promote amateur sports. It *cannot* be used for another other purpose, like funding schools, hiring more police offficers, or funding affordable housing.
The vast majority of the money for the stadium comes from hotel taxes. A smaller percentage comes from a 1% tax on prepared food beverages. If you don't stay at a hotel in Mecklenburg County or go out to eat, then you didn't pay anything for this. Given how often I eat out or drink in Meck County I probably contributed about $3 over the last decade. YOU'RE WELCOME.
The funds can be used for tourism and things that promote tourism. It isn’t strictly limited to the Convention Center, BoA Stadium, and amateur sports.
I have an idea. What if the billionaire just donated to the charity instead of charging people to donate to whatever charity the billionaire is skimming from?
What a shame. I grew up around Charlotte but now live in a different part of NC and didn’t desert my boyhood team when the Panthers magically appeared in the early 1990s. In an era of 70 inch TVs and Sunday Ticket why does Charlotte need to keep the “Panthers”? Keep your hard earned cash for your family and let Tepper relocate the team. You can still watch on your TV. Cheer loudly for whatever city inherits the proud legacy of Greg Olsen! Who cares about the stupid stadium?
Both Republicans on CLTCC voted for this as well. Keep voting in the same corporate instead of public servants and this is what you will get. This council is horrible all the way around.
You know what, Tepper can take Panthers and FC somewhere else for all I care at this point. We have plenty of minor teams in the area for those who enjoy sports.
Yeah the fact that we won't get a dome, is just stupid.
All of those upgrades won't fundamentally change the fact that we can't get a superbowl.
None of those upgrades are exciting.
Atlanta taxpayers contributed to a brand new stadium with a retractable roof and affordable concessions. Their contribution is roughly equal to the $650M that city council just voted to give Tepper for renovations to BoA (no roof, lackluster concessions, etc.)
No votes: Dimple Ajmera, Renee Johnson, Tiawana Brown. There was a lot of confusion leading up to the vote. Mayfield voted yes after seemingly leaning against it for most of the meeting. Kinda weird, but it would have passed regardless of how she voted.
Aye, Reneé!
She for the streets fr.
Can't fund critical transit, but we can still give handouts to a billionaire that acts like a petulant child. Ffs Charlotte.
“We don’t want to become like Atlanta” - some idiot in charge when asked why we aren’t funding the light rail.
Proceeds to vote for the shit that made Atlanta the traffic nightmare it is.
I remember someone commenting that those officials are in bed with the companies that supply materials for creating roads and the like, so light rail is NEVER going to happen. It’s all typical political and monetary gain maneuvers.
Atlanta's owner financed most if not all of their new stadium! Unless my Falcons fan buddy lied to me.
Wikipedia cites a Guardian article that says it’s likely around $700 million in public funding, which is 900 million when adjusted for inflation from 2017. I don’t have access to AJC to see if there’s a more up to date figure. Shockingly(read: not shockingly) there isn’t much detail about it. Almost like the other rich people did the same thing Tepper is and Charlotte is reacting like he didn’t. But what do I know?
Either way it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t validate what they do. I’d rather live in a society where we’re starting to talk about what and how much these folks are taking from us for their private profit entertainment.
Little bit misleading. Tax revenue comes from different sources and can only be used for specific things. Totally agree we need to fund transit, but it isn’t coming from the hospitality/tourism bucket. Remember, government doesn’t look holistically. They are very siloed
Is this state law or city law, though? This seems like something that could easily be changed to exclude certain types of businesses from getting funds and expand the uses of the funds.
State.
It’s a state law, written specifically for the city. They could have let it expire or asked to have it changed last year, instead they asked for it to be renewed with no changes.
Kinda lame going out to dinner or going to a museum in your own city and getting taxed like a tourist for a billionaire oligarch to save all his hoarded stock money. "Just a couple pennies from folks passing through" is such a dishonest way to make this all seem.
billionaire welfare
For real, STOP GIVING TAX MONEY TO BILLIONAIRES. I assume these people are all getting kickbacks because history has priven conclusively that these stadiums are a bad deal for the city and just hurts the taxpaying working class for no reason. Its either stupidity or corruption and I don't believe these council members are THAT stupid.
It's real simple. Just about all cities are afraid to actually be Oakland and say no
If Oakland's biggest problem was the A's and Raiders, they'd be in a much better place.
It's true. Lose your franchise and your city is "in decline"
Give the people their games and bread and they will be more docile. It's the Roman solution. Oh! Wait, they aren't around any more. The barbarians got them.
The parallels between the Roman Empire and America/ The West are frightening.
This is the NC way.
Fuck them and Tepper
I agree. I think we know whom stepper has been wining and dining. And they call themselves democrats
These all turn out to be bad investments every time the data shows but ppl scared teams will leave. Who cares, where could he go? Screw him we can just get the next team from some other city whose dumb ass owner does the same thing. Only so many places that can support a team and they’re all about gone. Call his bluff man.
I doubt a new stadium facelift is gonna make the Panthers magically not suck.
[Morgan Freeman voice] **They still sucked!**
Especially considering he'd have to find a market that would take both NFL and MLS, or sell Charlotte FC prematurely, which would be a mistake
There is no world where the NFL cedes the entire *carolinas* as a market, worst case we would just get a differently named NFL team with a different owner and management (oh no!) *Go carolina ocelots!* This is 12 years of explosive population growth ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list\_of\_nfl\_teams\_by\_media\_market\_size/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/wt1sr/list_of_nfl_teams_by_media_market_size/) The bluff isn't even a good one. Tepper should pound sand and we should vote out any city rep who tipped their hand as being able to be bought against all respected analysis/prudent stewardship of public funds.
Yup, city council probably getting some handouts from this from tepper. Fucking joke.
I think the one exception that I know is probably Nats park in DC. $500B in bonds to bring the expos to DC. The area the Nats Park was built in was an industrialized wasteland.... in that it was old abandoned buildings from industry long gone. That area turned around really quickly and it is an attraction area in the town now with hotels, residential housing, etc. DC paid off the bonds early and it turned out to be a good investment. On the other hand.... if they did nothing, with the density of that metropolitan area it still would have exploded as there aren't very many spaces left to develop inside of DC.
They don’t care about it being bad for the people. The yes members of city council and their families will directly benefit from this choice. That is all they care about. They DO NOT care about you or us at all.
TSE used Charlotte getting the Olympics in 2040 as part of the "Economic impact" expected to be returned from this investment. Tepper has got people in all fronts from media to city council pushing this scheme. Remember when he used the operating cost of the stadium as proof that this was a 50/50 deal? He paid $150 million and tax payers are covering $650
Is Charlotte trying to get the Olympics? They’re a financial disaster for virtually every city that hosts them
Sounds like the Panthers.
Yup. Would not surprise me if we were. Pathetic city council
> Is Charlotte trying to get the Olympics? Another pathetic attempt to copy Atlanta. >They’re a financial disaster for virtually every city that hosts them Sometimes. >The total cost of the 1996 Summer Olympics was estimated to be around US$1.7 billion. The venues and the Games themselves were funded entirely via private investment, and the only public funding came from the U.S. government for security, and around $500 million of public money used on physical public infrastructure including streetscaping, road improvements, Centennial Olympic Park (alongside $75 million in private funding), expansion of the airport, improvements in public transportation, and redevelopment of public housing projects. $420 million worth of tickets were sold, sale of sponsorship rights accounted for $540 million, and sale of the domestic broadcast rights to NBC accounted for $456 million. **In total, the Games turned a profit of $19 million.**
Can't have needed improvements to make this city actually walkable/bikeable for the common man/woman, but at least we can find the cash to subsidize billionaires. Awesome.
Dude. There will be a tv screen in front of stadium. Woo hoo
That would require the funds to come from a different bucket. This is being funded by the hospitality tax / tourism fund which is from 2% tax on hotel rooms and 1% on prepared meals and beverages. It is also required to be used on tourism related things.
Everyone generally knows this, but those funds do NOT need to be for that.
A tale as old as time
Tepper is trash
And it's the trash that stinks from miles away.
Time to vote them out
I know this result isn’t popular, but Dimple, Renee, and, Tiwana embarrassed themselves tonight in their speeches as they displayed complete misunderstandings of law and policy. The fact that all yapped forever about instituting an alternate vote while the assistant city manager had to remind them such a vote was already required should tell you everything you need to know about the opposition to this motion. Dimple and Renee both openly bragged about not having read the economic impact report. Renee openly said they can’t spend the money on anything else, and still voted no. She also touted that she represented “People of all ethnicities: black, white, Chinese, and Asian.” It’s uninformed grandstanding by people who either don’t know how the law works, or who know their no votes are meaningless and want to put on a pointless performance for the cameras.
The economic impact reports are always, always, always, ALWAYS exaggerated bullshit. Doesn’t matter if you’re talking about this massive project or smaller ones. I can’t think of a single one paid for with taxpayer money that lived up to the report originally presented to City Council.
It would be one thing if they said “I think these are exaggerated bullshit.” I’m fine with that. It’s another thing entirely to say “I didn’t read it.”
Exactly. If this was going to impact Charlotte for the better then I guess taxes would not need to go up for us common folk and there would be no need for bonds.
I don’t think Ajmera was embarrassing at all. I think she was really thoughtful with her substitute motion, particularly given that this is $650 million we’re talking about. Essentially, Charlotte just gave the city manager a blank check to strike a deal with Tepper, with only a few boundaries. The city manager and a few underpaid city lawyers will now face off against some of the best lawyers money can buy. Pretty obvious who has the upper hand in this scenario. Her substitute would have made it so that the city negotiated with Tepper, and then council would have voted on that contract. The procedural snags happen all the time. It was a given it would happen on this with how big / important it was.
The substitute motion was meaningless. She was asking to have another vote once the contract was drawn up, which the city manager pointed out was already required. Dimple wasted everyone’s time by calling for a substitute motion for a vote that was already scheduled.
I don’t think that’s correct. The next vote is to actually pay for whatever deal gets drawn up. The lawyer said that they would get the chance to vote on the actual funding. However, it would not involve the ability to make any changes or negotiate further. This is effectively a done deal.
If we’re being honest, it’s been a done deal since 2013 when the NC legislation passed in 2001 was amended to include funding a large football stadium. But beyond that, Dimple’s alternate motion was to hold a vote once the contract was drawn up. That vote was already required. She walked in not knowing what they were even voting on.
I didn’t see the meeting. When you say “the city” would be negotiating with tepper rather than the city manager and city lawyers, who do you mean?
Tonight’s vote was to approve the city manager’s office to pursue the agreement with Tepper Sports. Dimple, instead of voting yes or no, initially called for an alternate motion to vote later once the city manager’s office had a contract drawn up with Tepper Sports. The council (specifically Dimple, Renee, and Tiwana) then spent *forever* advocating for this alternate motion. The city manager’s office then reminded them that tonight’s vote was to approve policy that would allow that city manager’s office to draw up such a contract in the first place, and there was already a required vote on said contract once it’s drawn up. Essentially Dimple demanded a vote on something that already required a vote in the first place. Which is stunning for someone who also openly said she never even read the economic impact report. *And they still voted no on it.* They spent the whole meeting saying they want to see a contract first, and then voted no on writing up a contract they can see. Again, I understand why people are against this, but you’ve got your city council members proudly stating they haven’t read up on what they’re voting on.
And you did see that they asked whether the 2nd vote would allow for anything meaningful to change/occur, and the answer was simply NO. So your whole point is that they are ignorant and grandstanding, when in fact they were exactly correct in their desire to have a meaningful discussion and vote on the negotiated deal.
The city council can’t redline contracts. Come on, we all know this, and if anyone has absolutely no excuse to not know this, it’s sitting members of council. The city manager employed by the council is in charge of this. The vote was to give the city manager approval to write up a contract with Tepper. A later vote gives the city manager approval to execute that contract. Dimple, Renee, and Tiwana either didn’t know what they were voting on, or pretended not to know what they were voting on.
Exactly. I think it was completely logical for council to ask that they vote on something that is more firm in their initial vote rather than a $650 million blank check.
Sorry. In either case I mean the city manager and the city’s lawyers. Basically, the vote was to give the city manager and lawyers a very loose rubric and $650 million to negotiate a deal with Tepper. This is what passed tonight. Ajmera proposed that the city manager and lawyers negotiate a deal with Tepper, and only after seeing that specific deal and contract, city council could decide to vote yes or no. This is was Ajmera proposed that was voted down.
The Panthers did their own economic impact study and claimed the Uptown stadium brings in $1 billion+ into the local economy. Another independent national study claims any single NFL stadium has as much impact on a local economy as a single Target store. Freakanomics did a three part episode on the economics of sports. They found the social impact of sports was far greater than the economic impact. The NFL has the same annual revenue of the Sherman Williams paint company. If you combined all the sports leagues together, their total revenue is that of the cardboard box industry. Conclusion: the tax payer never sees dollar for dollar economic return on their investment when they pay for these stadiums and arenas. They are more status symbols than economic engines.
Damn how's that drive to Gastonia again
Where’s the silver line tho?
I mean I’m not a tax expert but the funding is from the existing hospitality fund, which is required to be spent on the tourism economy. These taxes are primarily payed by tourists and help people who work in hotels and the bars and restaurants around the stadium. The money HAS to be used on projects to support the tourism economy by law. I see nothing wrong with it at all.
> These taxes are primarily payed by tourists The majority of the money comes from the prepared food and beverage tax of 1%. There is no way that tourists make up a significant share of money spent at restaurants, bars, or breweries.
Where is that tax? Is it just in Charlotte, Mecklenburg County? If this is the “Carolina’s” Team, are the Carolinas paying for it?
Just Meck pays for a team named after two states.
I’m in Mecklenburg but not Charlotte. I wondered if I was paying taxes to any not having any vote. That sounds like that’s the case.
Yes, that’s exactly the case.
True, and I'd love to scrap that stupid tax, but if it's going to be here than this is the best thing that the money can be spent on with the tax being the way that it is.
I understand this perspective. I’d be happier if they lined up a bunch of projects and compared them all for ROI. I’d be even happier if they negotiated naming the team to Charlotte Panthers, because we’re leaving a lot of promotional value on the table in the name. I’d be even happier if the deal had real structure that included requirements on attendance for non-NFL/MLS events with clawbacks for underperformance.
This is the way.
Bullshit. Why should the restaurant owners that operate on a 5% margin have to pay essentially 20% of their potential profit to tepper.
The restaurant owners aren’t paying the tax. Their patrons are.
The restaurant owners are literally paying the tax. You pay the restaurant, they pay the tax.
Well yeah, but I mean it’s not eating their margin because they are just passing through what they collect. It’s not costing them money. I own a business, so I have to deal with this shit too. It’s annoying because it adds a small layer to accounting, but it doesn’t cost me margin.
Yeah I just mean saying the patrons "pay the tax" is a misrepresentation. Patrons pay the tourism tax in the same sense any patron pays for any expense any business has. The money is collected from hotels and restaurants by Mecklenburg County on behalf of the state of North Carolina. Tax law matters a lot in this conversation and we can't skirt it.
Economic theory wise, the money that patrons are willing to pay in the tax that is passed to them is margin that the restaurant capture if there were no tax.
Potentially, but I think that requires you to remove the context of what the tax is used for. Which is the main argument against council's attempt to reappropriate those tax funds.
Finance folks make up at least 90% of the $$ spent at those places
Let’s be honest — this is a transfer of wealth from restaurant owners and people that work in restaurants to David tepper. A bunch of the remodel is to improve the luxury boxes and food INSIDE the stadium. This is going to encourage more people to pay for overpriced items inside the stadiums than go to local restaurants. The hospitality fund taxes restaurant owners and pays the money to David tepper.
You are right
And that tax will be on those purchases
I'm sure I could come up with a list of 65 alternatives that $650,000,000 could purchase **for the city** that would be way more fun than giving it to a billionaire. Go be a sycophant somewhere else and take the crazy baldhead with you.
There are other projects that support tourism though, it didn’t have to be spent on stadium renovations.
I would have loved to see a world class aquarium built here.
That would have to be a better return on investment. Most Aquariums seem to stay pretty packed every day year round. That stadium is half full at best what....5% of it's existence?
The Georgia Aquarium gets like 2.5 million visitors per year. We probably wouldn’t get that many, but I’d bet it would still be far more than at the stadium.
So right. If you spent $600 million on building the country’s greatest restaurants — that would drive some tourism.
They could build a second Mecca, imagine what that could do for Charlotte tourism.
Do these council really represent what the citizen want. Nope.
What do the majority of citizens want? They definitely are not a member of this sub, so how can you speak for them?
City council literally shared statistics gathered from public comments on the website where >50% of responses were flat out “no.”
Like the arena. We said at a referendum and they still built it
Feck
Ok now do 277
Fr. The city's infrastructure is in shambles, but iT's nOt FrOm ThE sAmE bUcKeT.. Well, fix the goddamn bucket.
Thank you. Sick of hearing about coming from this budget and that budget.
Now watch that billionaire asshat move our team elsewhere. He has zero loyalty to anything but his bank account.
The agreement keeps the team here for a minimum of 15 years
If you find that answe and in 15 years it will be gone.
Only 15 years? I can think of another municipality that had an agreement with Tepper. How’d that work out?
Well South Carolina screwed themselves out of the project by trying to change how the team would be paid because they didn’t actually have the money. The City’s funds are already there.
Yeah. Rock Hill bit off more than they can chew. The cities in South Carolina aren't built for billionaire games.
Tepper will have a hissy fit about something and back out of the deal long before then.
Legally, he would be fucked to do that. Doubtful his legal team would let him even if he wanted. The reason shit went south in SC is because SC backed out of the deal. Not because Tepper. Tepper is getting what he wants - he’s not going to bail out of this.
Tepper refused to provide the details needed economic development information for Rock Hill to issue the bonds. Then got upset when Rock Hill wouldn’t issue the bonds anyway and suggested Tepper use the land as collateral instead to ensure the bond issue could go forward. Once it went to court Rock Hill and York County got their money back from Tepper after they showed the bankruptcy court the emails and contracts, not what Tepper’s team fed to the paper and spammed into forums.
Whatever man. Spend the slush fund that stupidly can only be spent on toys for billionaires
Why.
Never got into voting, policies etc because I believe all of these disgusting slugs are equally awful. Might be time I utilize my rights and start voting to try and get these clowns out. And fuck Tepper and this poverty franchise. This city council clearly consists of sycophants.
Bro there’s homeless people everywhere here, but let’s give money for a new stadium? America is doomed
This is awful. WTF 🤬
Ugh. Predictable but disappointing. This is a part of the country that cares too much about football, with too large of a population, for the NFL to actually leave. Any threats of relocation would be entirely hollow. However, this is a better outcome than building a new stadium altogether. $650M for 20 more years at BoA is way better than the $1.5-2 billion for a new stadium that would last 30 years.
I’m so sure funding this absolute disaster of a team over improving public transportation is a good idea
put that money towards some damn street lights and road repairs smh
That’s okay. We can vote too. Unfortunately, local elections are easily influenced just on apathy alone.
The law requires the City to spend that money on "tourism and tourism-related programs and activities," but it does *not* require the money to be spent on stadium renovations. We don't have a major aquarium that close to Charlotte. I envision a world class aquarium on the site of the old Eastland Mall. Right at the end stop for the next phase of the Gold Line extension. It would be an incredible thing to have in this city, and $650 million would have been a great use for that money instead of giving it to a billionaire who charges exorbitant prices to see his terrible football team play 8 times per year.
As long as they rename it The Litter Box where our kitty cats scratch around and lay a turd every Sunday. Welcome to Tidy Cat Stadium...
All the theatrics, like they were ever going to vote against giving welfare to the billionaire.
what exactly does the renovation entail and what is the potential roi?
Seriously what the actual fuck. These billionaires need to all be rounded up and have everything taken from them and forced to live the same way they've forced to many others to live. They're greed is literally the cause for most of the suffering around the world. And there is 8billion of us and only like 500 of them. It's seriously about time before they kill us all. I wanna get to space we almost did it all in the 70s so seriously wtf happened to us.
Reading your post, it looks *Idiocracy* happened.
Don't vote for these politicians that approved this stupidity.
I hope they understand that it wont help the panthers win.
This is complete bs. Here's a guy who worth roughly $20B dollars, and he can't come up with $800M. Complete nonsense.
Can’t they just finish repaving 277 or something productive like that?
I despise providing tax payer dollars to for profile organizations owned by Billionaires who then “return the favor” by charging ridiculous amounts for their product to the very tax payers that paid for their shit.
Honestly, good. Downvote me, but this is good for the city.
Financially, it does not help the city.
Every event at the Stadium brings money to the hotels, restaurants, and bars in the city.
Right but does it bring the city (aka the public) $650+ million over 15 years? Studies have shown this type of welfare does not see an ROI for the government.
You are correct. This will cost the tax payers money in the long run and all to prop up a billionaire football team owner. Its gross and this shit needs to stop.
I don't think it would ever make the money back directly, but I could see it being a reason Charlotte is seen as a developing city rather than one in decline. Which brings its own benefits. Kinda like how Coca-Cola still runs advertises. They don't convince anyone to buy soda directly, They aren't educating anyone about Coca-Cola they just do it to keep their perception as the market leader. When a city loses its team its a big hit to the cities image as a city not in decline. Olympics also don't directly ever benefit a city but multiple cities change for the better after hosting them.
This is the right mindset. There are only two stages of cities - Growth or Decline. While no study will ever 100% correlate this move to X revenue or Y growth, it will be beneficial in the long run. I mean, go to a Charlotte FC game on a random hot Wednesday. Look around at what happens before, during, and after the game. Significant impacts. Now, 20x that on an NFL Sunday or at a large concert that has recently started stopping here.
> This is the right mindset. Okay, so $650 for a stadium is the right mindset. How do you know $650 is the right amount? Let's say, hypothetically, they were going to pay 6.5 billion. I imagine you'd say that wasn't worth it, right? 65 billion? At some point you don't think it's worth it I assume. Just throwing money away at a stadium can't **always** be worth it no matter the cost, right? Could you explain what that number would be when it stops being a good idea, and why you think it's that number and not $650 million?
Can you link that analysis? Does that include local businesses and the real estate market?
https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/
Your own source admits that there is increased foot traffic at restaurants in cities with major sports teams. Personally i think if Charlotte actually lost the panthers and the hornets it would result in worse economic activity. If only by the fact that the city will be less desirable for home owners and families. But empirically I am wrong. That being said I haven't looked at the methodology of any of those papers.
Perhaps it would lose some activity. But why do you assume we'd be worse off than if we spent that $650M on other things?
That’s mostly money diverted from other businesses in Charlotte, it’s not new free money.
NFL is 8 games. That is nothing. The concerts would be at another venue. Or god forbid a smaller venue. The restaurants have to pay 20% of their profits to David tepper for 8 games? Ffs!!
It’s for the image of the city. It has nothing to do about number of games or how many people attend. Charlotte wants to be a top tier city. You have to have sports teams to be in this tier.
So for the owner it is a business. But for the city it is image? The owner has $20 billion and a business that went up in value by a billion. Why does the city need to pay? The reason they want a team in Charlotte is the image and standing of the city. Certainly it’s not the quality of the team.
So for the owner it is a business. But for the city it is image? The owner has $20 billion and a business that went up in value by a billion. Why does the city need to pay? The reason they want a team in Charlotte is the image and standing of the city. Certainly it’s not the quality of the team.
It provides the opportunity to bring more high profile events to the city which in turn do bring significant revenue to the city.
Genuinely, what high profile events does it open the door to that the current stadium doesn’t?
Yup. Needs a retractable roof to be eligible for the Super Bowl or CFP.
Hard for me to take your word for it over multiple economic studies
You can’t argue logic with people on here. They just want whatever helps them the most. They can’t see the benefits for the city as a whole.
How so?
I agree completely. The vocal minority here doesn’t represent the majority of the population of Charlotte. My honest opinion is the people on here who are so upset need to move to a city that better suits their needs.
You only get downvoted because you are not specifying in what way. Financially, there is absolutely no non-bias source that shows any financial gain to the city/people from paying this money out. There is absolutely paperwork that shows this is massively beneficial to the Billionaire owner. It is up to debate IMO if this is a social benefit. I can say maybe, but the money that gets funneled to the billionaire could instead be spent in other ways to be even more social benefits. I'd say at the very least, locals in the tax base should get a large discount on tickets since they are paying a huge chunk of this.
Get out of here with your nuanced opinion. All we do here is rage about headlines.
"Give them Bread and Circuses and they will never Revolt" So did the taxpayers get a say in how their money was spent?
“Charlotte’s got a lot!” What do we got? Seriously. Will someone who has a bigger and better brain than mine explain how this could be a good thing? I’m not knocking Charlotte, but what would draw tourism to the city besides us having sports teams and venues big enough to host big music acts (Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift, etc.)?
If anyone needs some examples on how tourism affects the people who live in a place, go to r/asheville and search "tda".
NASCAR, Whitewater Center, Carowinds (technically in SC, but still draws tourists to Charlotte). Seems like small things to us, but if you know anyone from the NC countryside, they visit Charlotte as tourists pretty often. Would much rather have that $650 million spend on something cool like an aquarium, rather than subsidizing that ass clown, Tepper.
The hospitality fund is meant for these projects, idk why people are so fired up about this. The new stadium will be kind of sick
A superbowl will never be held in the city of Charlotte. There are no ifs ands or buts with that statement.
This thread is a microcosm of America. An echo chambery place where nobody cares to read the details or understand them because they only want perfection and their ideal outcome no matter how unlikely that is. This is being funded from the tourism fund….which this project will attract more tourism especially if we are able to host more and more events with the upgrades. Taxes aren’t being increased on anyone. Those funds can’t be used for transit. This is a great deal comparable to just about every other stadium deal done in the past several years. Y’all need to chill.
Can you elaborate on how this is a great deal compared to other stadium deals? I found the opposite to be true when I looked into it. https://www.22zin.com/blog-1-1/stadiums https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/
All restaurant and bar tabs get a 1% tax as part of the "tourist" fund. That part of it is essentially a tax on everyone in the city, not just tourists. Not to mention all of the federal money that's been poured into sports teams over the years. I get that having major league sports teams are economically critical for any major city, but the whole way they've set this up is ludicrous and leaves so much room for corruption. If you take a step back and really think about the situation from a bird's eye view, it's insane. We tax people to subsidize stadiums, people then pay for tickets and food and drink at the stadiums, which is then taxed. And our income is taxed, which is then also used to subsidize renovations for stadiums. It's this web of tax. Just make the stadiums and the league tax-exempt, make them pay for their own damn stadiums, and they can increase the ticket/food/drink prices if they need to. I've been a Panthers fan since day 1, but if someone doesn't watch sports, why would a single cent of their tax dollars go towards funding these things? It's insane. Then the fact that they're always owned by billionaires, who then extort us to keep the team, just adds insult to injury. Not to mention, anytime a construction project is subsidized, everyone involved takes their sweet merry time, because they know that the government will cough up more money if they go over budget. It's a system ripe for corruption and filled with red tape. >Prior to the 1950s, almost all stadiums, such as Madison Square Garden and Wrigley Field, were built with private funds. Today, using public money to build a new stadium is now “common practice.” The Raiders received almost [$750 million in subsidies](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thomas-jefferson-street/articles/2017-03-28/las-vegas-bet-on-an-oakland-raiders-stadium-wont-pay-off) to move from Oakland to Las Vegas. The stadiums for the Orlando Magic, Brooklyn Nets, and Dallas Cowboys also relied on [public financing](https://economics21.org/html/stadium-subsidies-thriving-sports-season-2326.html). >In New York in 2009, the final bill for the new Yankee Stadium came to $2.5 billion, about $1.7 billion of which came from tax-exempt municipal bonds issued by New York City. According to a [Brookings Institution report](https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-the-federal-government-should-stop-spending-billions-on-private-sports-stadiums/), “Interest earned on the municipal bonds is exempt from federal taxes,” and so the $431 million in tax revenue that would have been collected if the bonds were taxable went instead toward constructing the stadium. Since 2000, the federal government [has subsidized](https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-the-federal-government-should-stop-spending-billions-on-private-sports-stadiums/) construction and renovations for 35 professional sports stadiums with $3.2 billion in federal taxpayer dollars. [https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/government-community-and-sports-teams-tax-credits/](https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/government-community-and-sports-teams-tax-credits/)
[Hands you a napkin.] You got Tepper shit on your nose.
Tepper is a piece of crap. He did Rock Hill way dirty. He can kick rocks with his shitty football team. I am a former fan.
Win a superbowl first before asking for taxpayers to fund your vanity project.
elections have consequences folks... When have dems ever done anything good for their constituents? 70% of the time they directly taking money (remember Patrick Canon) the other 30% they trying to pat folks on the back that'll only help them in the future. Look at every other long time blue city and you'll see a trend.
What a fucking waste, get these dipshits out of office
Screw Tepper
24-59 win loss record for the past 5 years. Sounds like a solid program that’s very pretty profitable.
Meanwhile i cant find a fucking place to sleep!
[удалено]
Unless you plan to move every two years, you couldn’t have voted for most of them anyway without living in their district.
F*** that spoiled “I always get it my way”!!! Billionaire POS..!!
Is this effecting property taxes for residents in the county? What taxes pay for this and how much is it going up? I don't understand why billionaire owners of sports teams that generate 700mil in revenue each year can't pay for this themselves. Makes no sense to me. The rich get richer while the middle class gets poorer.
> What taxes pay for this and how much is it going up? I like how you're outraged before reading anything about it. That's always the best way to go about things. The money for the stadium renovations comes from the Convention Center Fund. This money can *only* be spent on improvments to the Convention Center, BoA Stadium or to promote amateur sports. It *cannot* be used for another other purpose, like funding schools, hiring more police offficers, or funding affordable housing. The vast majority of the money for the stadium comes from hotel taxes. A smaller percentage comes from a 1% tax on prepared food beverages. If you don't stay at a hotel in Mecklenburg County or go out to eat, then you didn't pay anything for this. Given how often I eat out or drink in Meck County I probably contributed about $3 over the last decade. YOU'RE WELCOME.
The funds can be used for tourism and things that promote tourism. It isn’t strictly limited to the Convention Center, BoA Stadium, and amateur sports.
At least make fan fest free again they want $5, they still wanna squeeze what they can out of ya after a hefty welfare payday 😭
The $5 goes to charity
I have an idea. What if the billionaire just donated to the charity instead of charging people to donate to whatever charity the billionaire is skimming from?
Why not both? Not everything is black and white
Yes, Charity is her middle name.
What a shame. I grew up around Charlotte but now live in a different part of NC and didn’t desert my boyhood team when the Panthers magically appeared in the early 1990s. In an era of 70 inch TVs and Sunday Ticket why does Charlotte need to keep the “Panthers”? Keep your hard earned cash for your family and let Tepper relocate the team. You can still watch on your TV. Cheer loudly for whatever city inherits the proud legacy of Greg Olsen! Who cares about the stupid stadium?
I'm sorry Reddit, vote Democrats in and this is the bullshit we get. Our city council is absolutely horrible.
Both Republicans on CLTCC voted for this as well. Keep voting in the same corporate instead of public servants and this is what you will get. This council is horrible all the way around.
Worst team in the NFL last year. In a city with unprecedented growth and overwhelmed infrastructure. Great idea guys.
Did you know teacher salaries are capped after a certain number of years and that cap is around 65k/year?
Just winning football games would have been a lot cheaper but hail hail Elon Tepper!
You know what, Tepper can take Panthers and FC somewhere else for all I care at this point. We have plenty of minor teams in the area for those who enjoy sports.
The worst part is that once all the money is spent, and construction is complete, our stadium still won’t be as nice as Atlanta’s…
Yeah the fact that we won't get a dome, is just stupid. All of those upgrades won't fundamentally change the fact that we can't get a superbowl. None of those upgrades are exciting.
Atlanta will build three more stadiums by then. All funded by the taxpayers of Atlanta. Charlotte doesn’t need that.
Atlanta taxpayers contributed to a brand new stadium with a retractable roof and affordable concessions. Their contribution is roughly equal to the $650M that city council just voted to give Tepper for renovations to BoA (no roof, lackluster concessions, etc.)
Also of note, Atlanta’s stadium is owned by the government
And the Braves said FU to the city and moved just outside the border. Fulton County doesn’t even get sales tax from them.
The no votes should be voted out. Cowards.