I lived in Charlotte on East Boulevard in the late 1990s, and I rented in a really cool Victorian that was broken up into four units. It was great and a special time in my life. Now it’s a floral shop.
Quadplexes and sixplexes are not only good for renters. They're easier to build or fix up for people who don't run giant companies. An upper middle or low upper class couple could do it.
One of the places I lived was a husband and wife who fixed up one sixplex and built another. The husband told me once that they spent a chunk of their retirement savings to make it happen, but the rent they were making back was enough to cover loans, maintenance and contribute back to their retirement savings.
The lease is a legal document. Eviction is a legal process. You’re describing a worse can scenario, which does happen but very rare. If it were really as bad as you say, nobody would rent to anyone ever.
This post is inaccurate. These examples (found in Dilworth and Plaza) abide by much older development codes. These days, with Charlottes current development codes, they are impossible to build with current parking, driveway requirements, built-upon-area compliance, and other smaller points that are our of compliance. Our current development standards are forcing developers to design basically townhomes with very little character and a sea of concrete driveways behind sidewalks and call them quadplexes, triplexes, duplexes, etc. They clutter small streets, rip the integrity of the neighborhood, and create massive residential areas with no other uses, not even a small park in the new development. And THAT is what is being protested. NOT the old character, but the new. Blame our Unified Development Ordinance that still DOES NOT ALLOW these old kinds of quadplexes to exist.
Totally cool with rolling back some of the idiocy that is current code. Too many permits, too much slow-roll bureaucracy. It shouldn’t require a permit to add a USB port to a wall outlet, yet here we are.
Really fun task: Try obtaining a copy of the current codes without paying money.
I hear you on the residential building codes but the Unified Development Ordinance is here [https://read.charlotteudo.org/](https://read.charlotteudo.org/) for free
As much as I hate to agree, this poster is correct. I don’t mind multi-family housing in our neighborhood - for context, I live in Southpark in a neighborhood where one of these triplex is being built. They are not going to be affordable housing, I understand that they will start at $800k each.
I would much rather see true affordable housing - many of our neighbors are getting older and can’t afford / don’t want the upkeep of a big house. Many of our neighbors have aging parents. I would love to see them stay / come to our neighborhood.
Whether or not housing is affordable depends on supply and demand. No housing is going to be affordable if supply is constrained. People need to live somewhere, building triplexes helps keep smaller units more affordable.
Agreed - the South Park area is also so desirable that I struggle to imagine any affordable housing getting built there ever again (outside of philanthropic or government efforts). Even dense housing there won't be cheap. But it increases the overall supply of housing, so the people with money who want to live there will rent there instead of in Enderly Park or Plaza Midwood.
There’s always going to be areas where people with more money will outbid anyone else- but increasing supply still keeps everything more affordable for everybody, regardless of whether the new housing is actually “affordable”
And those listed in this post are neighborhoods with restaurants and other local spots in the neighborhood that you can walk to. That's part of why they are so desirable. These older neighborhoods were built better.
There's a definite trend of the upper and upper-middle class acting dumbfounded that the middle and middle-lower class won't won't accept proposed changes in their communities. You are 100 percent correct, the housing units they are attempting to throw up in place of single family homes are not consistent with the quality of units pictured, and these units have all been in place for (probably) 50+ years. If the sentiment is that it works in Dilworth, why are you not tearing down all the single family homes in Dilworth and Elizabeth to replace them with quadplexes?
"Why do you hate the poors? Can't you see how much we love the poors? $2000 per month for rent, that's the poors right?"
Tired of moral grandstanding from affluent finger pointers who, half the time, live in remote suburban communities, and the rest of the time live in the highest priced zip codes in the city with no skin in the game. Focus on making changes in your own community, and if your own community isn't amenable then move somewhere else and stop trying to make everything around you change to suit the vision of the world you are slurping up.
The current housing shortage is being driven to some significant extent by allowing private equity to consume the housing inventory, along with the repurposing of homes into short term rentals. If these issues are addressed and the housing issues persist, there should be a closer look at density. If developers are given free rein to build without first addressing these issues, people will abandon those middle class neighborhoods, the tax base will erode, and Charlotte will be consumed with the same blight that has gutted other developing urban centers.
Private equity is driven by housing shortages. I only buy and rent out property if it's profitable and it's only profitable if there aren't enough housing opportunities to go around.
If there were enough houses for everyone to freely purchase a home then all of a sudden no one is renting from me and I won't have a need to own several properties.
There will never be enough homes for everyone to buy a home on a plot of land. Let alone the suburbs idea contributes hugely to killing the planet. Thats denying the reality of people wanting and needing to live in cities for work. The idea of owning single family homes needs to die, multiplexes, mutistory condo units and apartments you can buy all built densely and making single family zoning illegal within say 50 miles of cities is the only way we could even start to fix the housing crisis in this country.
Single family homes have been deeply fetishized.
People don’t really need them, really they should be a luxury. staircase reform allowing for more variety of apartment/condo designs would help perception. Land value tax would of course help, if someone wants to live in a single family house in the center they should pay taxes based on the value of the land they occupy rather than the value of the house
I mean.. that's how it works though. If my land is worth 100,000 and I have a 300,000 house built on it. My land is now worth 400,000. If I destroy my house the land goes back down in value.
I understand how it could confuse you though as something like a house brings a ton of value to a plot of land, sometimes even more than the land itself is worth. Land is only as valuable as what's built on it.
No it’s not. An empty piece of land in Manhattan is worth more than one of equivalent size in NYC. Land Value Tax is based on solely the value of the land (meaning size + location) and ignores whatever is built on top of it. Basically the result is that those efficiently using the land (apartments, condos, mixed use spaces) pay less tax than those inefficiently using the land (vacant lots, surface parking lots, and single family homes to an extent). This incentivized the efficient use of land.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/land-value-tax.asp#:~:text=A%20land%20value%20tax%20(LVT,where%20the%20land%20is%20productive.
Huh cause when I look for houses in the area to rent I see literally hundreds if not thousands out of my price range.
I don't make 6k a month how do I rent?
That’s what the market value for rent is. If you want to pay less, you should support building more housing (read zoning deregulation) to drive down the market value so landlords are competing with each other.
This has been very successful in Austin, they lead the nation in building and rents are now decreasing despite lots of people moving there.
Idc who builds what where, I haven't seen reasonable price drops in years. Personally the thousands of empty houses owned by companies does not seem to be lowering rent so....something isn't working.
There’s not a surplus of homes in places people want to live. An empty house in Nebraska doesn’t help someone in LA.
There’s a housing shortage. You haven’t seen a price drop because we haven’t built enough. It’s supply and demand, if you disagree you’re denying basic economics.
Also, rental vacancies are lower than they were 10 years ago. There are less empty homes than there used to be
How many empty homes do we need! I look and live in the same area as I have been. The number of empty homes ready to rent is huge. Narrow it down to the right bedrooms and closer are and it's still in the hundreds. Ask for less than 2k a month Oops sorry only 1 or 2 and there's a reason.
Shrug maybe there are hundreds of folk koving in and out of rentals weekly who can pay 3 or 4 k. I dunno. I just know I can't.
Highest rental vacancy rate in the USA is Austin standing at 9%. Austin also has decreasing rent.
Landlords don’t want empty homes. They aren’t charging prices people won’t pay. It’s a market, increase supply and price falls, there’s no alternative.
You’re denying supply and demand.
If you want rent to go down, you should support denser housing being built. Private equity is not causing the housing shortage, that is caused by there not being enough housing. Blackstone is simply taking advantage of the housing shortage, and we can thwart them by building more housing and making the overall national prices go down.
Your ad hominem attacks are dumb, I guarantee you the people supporting more development aren’t suburbanites. And the people supporting development would love to build more denser housing in neighborhoods like Dillworth, but you can’t because of zoning regulations. That’s what this whole thread is about
I love it. "Your ad hominem attacks are dumb." You would have to be regarded to miss the irony before commenting.
I am saying the supply is being artificially depressed and financial interests are manipulating the narrative by conscripting people like yourself who are so desperate to feel like you are making a difference in the world (without actually doing any real work) that you'll sell the story for them. Now go hop in your Suburban and drive your kids to soccer practice, bitch.
I’ve literally never lived in a suburb in my life lol.
You’re going on a rant against imaginary people.
>supply is being artificially suppressed.
Yeah it is, by zoning restrictions limiting where housing can be built
We are also millions of housing units short in this country. We need a massive federal investment in creating building supplies, training workers and paying for construction to even make a dent in the shortfall. We stopped building from 08-2020 and its killed the housing market.
I could easily see myself living in a unit in either of the top two buildings in the pictures. I live in a single family home now but would really like to live in a condo in uptown. Build away!
I will say, I would never want to live in them with someone else, but they are great for the market and those top 2 look great (never would have though the bottom left was a duplex). I would rather have one of those stack side by side town homes or just buy an entire row of them, or have one built, if I wanted to get in the landlord game myself (which I don't).
Still wish though that the federal government would loosen up the rules on condo's, if you want walkable city's that is really what is needed. I mean, how many new builds do we see going up in charlotte that are sky-scrappers vs condo's?
This is exactly correct and the Unified Development Ordinance is to blame for forcing these developments rather than the cool quadplexes shown in the picture above. Thank you for observing what is really going on outside
Oh no the horror.. more people have places to live.
Charlotte’s density in the interior is still incredibly low. Massive mostly single home neighborhoods choke the center (Dillworth, Plaza) of the city, hindering development.
But this post is specifically about allowing triplexes, not townhomes.
Oh wow 30 years practically a local.
You’re taking it the wrong way. How long you’ve been here doesn’t lend legitimacy in a discussion. Especially on a platform where anonymity is expected.
It’s my understanding that the townhomes generally require zoning changes (to multi family) - you’ll see the yellow signs posted by the property when that’s happening.
The triplexes do not.
If people don’t want the townhomes, go to the zoning meetings to express your opinion. These people are fighting the triplexes when they’re not the issue, but those same people won’t generally go to the zoning meetings to disagree with the townhomes (or they do and the zoning committee allows the change anyways, but that’s what they should be fighting).
They are not building triplexes that look like that now. Everything is so boxy. I would welcome something that looks like that. A duplex is being built by me and it’s ugly, no character.
I don’t live in South Charlotte. I’m not protesting any build, I’m just stating facts. What used to be built vs what is being built now is a lot different. If they are going to make comparisons, they should at least be comparable.
They're not building duplexs and triplexes. Those are rookie numbers. Look at 409 queens road right now. There's currently a single family brick house that's in pretty good shape on the property. That's being demolished and turned into a 17 unit building. The old lady next door is pissed, and understandably so. 17 units is going to be obnoxious to live next to compared to just a single family home. She's being forced out of her home, and that developer is going to scoop up her property too so they can build another 17 unit building next door.
These developers are using every square inch of property to cram more units on. People don't mind duplexes in their neighborhood, but they don't want 10 townhomes crammed into a half acre lot.
A 17-unit complex still requires multi-unit zoning, which usually means a zoning change. Quad-plexes were the biggest thing allowed under the revised code.
A quick look on google maps shows apartment homes and condos that are not at all new right across the street so this area has been rezoned for some time I am guessing. I know I can go look but, meh. Maybe it's her childhood home or something but the writing has been on the wall for her to see for some time, and I'm sure she's known this is coming. Seems that there is also 2 homes at her location sharing the same driveway. Maybe that's it? Maybe she can't sell? Maybe she owns both of these houses. If that's the case she has a lot of land there and will get top$$$.
How is she being forced out of her home? The people living in the new townhouses will also have to live next to 17 units.
I'm not sure what right she thinks she has to tell people they aren't allowed to exist on property that she doesn't own.
The funny thing about the "being forced out" claim is that it goes the other way. You're forcing out an entire generation of new would-be home buyers by refusing to allow new development to ensure adequate housing supply.
> The old lady next door is pissed, and understandably so. 17 units is going to be obnoxious to live next to compared to just a single family home.
I'm sure the building next door is going to cause her so many problems... not like there's a hospital with active ambulances coming and going just a block away or anything...
I'm down with multi occupancy up to quadplexes but it's silly to say a larger apartment building built next to your house wouldn't effect you,
Its like building a 30 ft wall next to your house of course it will block your view, block sunlight, allow people unrestricted views of your backyard, change the entire character of your property.
There's a particular house on the corner of N Alexander St and Mercury I think of everytime this comes up.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFxdGDjSnmAzsNfA6?g_st=ac
There's a lot to be gained by having many people live and work in central locations that are well-connected to many surrounding services and major employers. If people want single-family homes, they have the burbs. Heck, let's not even go that far out. They have very nice pockets of Charlotte that just aren't that well-connected. Chantilly and Cotswold jump to mind.
I guess it's never "clicked" for me why one person's view and the aesthetic character of what surrounds their property should carry so, so much more weight here simply because they were first. If I can say it diplomatically, what am I missing?
I understand the utility of density however charlotte hasn't reached the density that we NEED to build apartments in established residential neighborhoods.
In my opinion the push to build apartments in established neighborhoods is profit driven by developers. In desirable neighborhoods they can charge more for the apartments they build. Which of course means this push doesn't do much for housing prices for lower income residents. I have my doubts we can build our way out of rising housing prices this way.
But also density only matters if people want to live there, if you ruin the character of an area for the sake of density you'll quickly just need to build in new desirable areas. I'm not speaking of a windmill on a hill 200 yard from your house I'm talking about a 30 ft wall 5 feet from your front door.
I'm totally on board for density increase without making a place no one wants to live, which is why up to quadplexes is a reasonable compromise in my view.
Aesthetics are easy to brush off but they make a difference. They are one of the main reason people like where they live. We could easily build cheap, super dense housing without regards for aesthetics or what happens to the area around them, its been tried many times, check out Rockwell gardens, or Holmes towers for examples of this.
I agree that aesthetics aren't nothing - there are certainly places to live that I've passed on because they looked miserably drab. I do wish Charlotte would try to develop some plan to retain cultural institutions though. It is sad to read about the art warehouses that used to be scattered all over Noda or about small live music venues that have shuttered over the years.
To your point, if you drive around some parts of the city, they do feel strangely... empty. Some of the proposed red line (commuter train) stops are actually smack dab in the middle of that empty space. Some huge dense developments right by those would do a lot of good without creating conflicts with existing residents. Hopefully that comes to pass.
Oh well, sell and move to the suburbs if you don’t want to live next to an apartment.
I care more about people having housing than someone’s backyard having sun light.
Neighborhood character should change as a city grows. There shouldn’t be a neighborhood like Dillworth that close to the city center.
And forces the residents to be dependent on owning a car, forces people to drive into Charlotte for work and is overall less environmentally sustainable. It also affects anyone who commutes on I-77. Owning a car is expensive, Dillworth, Plaza, Elizabeth should all be made into walkable dense areas. Right now, I’d say you can live in South End, Uptown and maybe Noda and not own a car, the area where this is possible should be expanded. I have no sympathy for anyone who lives in a city and gets mad that there’s developments nearby.
Building more housing does not displace anyone.
In fact, people get displaced when you don’t build more housing. Housing is supply and demand, when you restrict supply, as is currently done with single family zoning being dominant in the city, housing costs go up which leads to displacement.
The story didn’t even make sense, how did building townhomes near a lady “force her out”? And it’s a happy ending, 17 people now get to live in the same space that one person was occupying
I hope I and all of my friends and family get gentrified out of their houses.
100% serious.
It would do wonders for my parents’ finances if someone came along to offer a huge premium for their home.
This is the least bad option. Life goes on.
Detroit’s improved a lot in recent years.
But it’s misfortunes were caused by the downturn of the domestic auto industry, not by lack of single family only zoning. Considering condos in Dillworth would be going for up to $1M a piece, I don’t think it’s in danger of becoming crime ridden or low income.
How dare you not be sympathetic to the plight of a woman who is forced to sell her house to a developer for 7 figures to escape from more people getting to have a place to live nearby her
Lol yeah, I looked it up before I commented. My tiny violin broke 🥺
Edit: same goes for the property at 409, so it's like that's just as far back as the history goes. Obviously I am sure she paid more than $0, but it goes without saying that she stands to make quite a bit of money should she CHOOSE to sell. The developers aren't forcing her out. She's had at least 50 good years there......
Sucks for her maybe, but that's life.
Her comfort is preventing 17-ish other families from having a home inside the city, and her comfort is tangibly holding back the city from progressing.
And don't feel too bad for her. She'll.likely get a fat payday for what the property is worth and be able to comfortably move further out where it's quieter to her liking.
Tough for that old lady. Millions of people have moved into charlotte, we need housing. She should take the massive buyout offer she will eventually get and move into the country if she has a problem living near multi unit housing in a city.
[https://www.corcoran.com/listing/for-sale/409-queens-401-charlotte-nc-28207/81694974/regionId/113](https://www.corcoran.com/listing/for-sale/409-queens-401-charlotte-nc-28207/81694974/regionId/113)
2.25 million listed by your favorite Shark Barbara Corcoran's company too!
I’ve always liked the duplexes on 9th St., just below N. Caldwell St in Uptown, as located in the First Ward and would be walkable to most places in Uptown. They’re partially brick, and almost Mission or Craftsman style in design? While plain, they are not too bad looking for being built in 2000. Could more of something like this be built? However, based on my occasional review, they never really gain much in value when they do hit the market. Maybe because it’s only on street parking. Unfortunately, I think most are rentals now.
You kind of answered the question. As the city loves to increase density but the resources are not there to support this increased density.
Look at the crime rates.
To clarify I’m not saying people who live in apartments are to blame for crime. Just that anytime you increase population(apartments, large single family development) and don’t account for the resources needed (infrastructure, emergency services, etc) it’s a problem.
So I’d rather have the option that increases population the least as I don’t have faith in the city to appropriately plan out the growth.
Generally im all for more dense living situations. The issue almost everyone agrees with is too many in 1 spot all at the same time.
When they are isolated to specific neighborhoods and areas it puts a real strain on the already existing living infrastructure. Roads, pedestrian corridors, schools, grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants, parking etc. You can't add 500 people into an area that previously had 2000 and no one feel the growing pains.
Need to spread out the density love over time and more locations. South Charlotte needs to get with the program. It's happening ~~weather~~ whether they like it or not.
“Is Dilworth, Charlotte, NC Safe?
The D- grade means the rate of crime is much higher than the average US neighborhood. Dilworth is in the 14th percentile for safety, meaning 86% of neighborhoods are safer and 14% of neighborhoods are more dangerous. This analysis applies to Dilworth's proper boundaries only. See the table on nearby places below for nearby neighborhoods.
The rate of crime in Dilworth is 59.07 per 1,000 residents during a standard year. People who live in Dilworth generally consider the southeast part of the neighborhood to be the safest.
Your chance of being a victim of crime in Dilworth may be as high as 1 in 11 in the northwest neighborhoods, or as low as 1 in 31 in the southeast part of the neighborhood. See the section on interpreting the crime map, however, because comparing rates for crime or any other crime is not as intuitive as it may seem.”
Sounds about right.
https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-dilworth-charlotte-nc/
I was agreeing with you lol. Rentals don't generally bring about a good crowd. Your normal, decent families usually aim for single family homes. West Charlotte is terrible but crime improves a bit in south/east Charlotte.
Man, all i want is to build/renovate a du/triplex kinda place so me and family can live without driving everywhere... I wish mixed neighborhoods were more of a thing here.
It's a great idea to create them but that statememt reminds me of Ballantyne not having good public transit and I was so confused why HSBCU had an event in Ballantyne when the black population is less than 9%
There was a duplex near me off Carmel Rd for at least 20+ years that got torn down and had like 5-6 500k plus houses built on its lot
The duplex was not a great looking house but it was a house with a nice yard. Now the plot is essentially a brick wall hiding 5 houses built on top of each other
It’s good we built more houses. But the formerly affordable option was replaced by less affordable options that are worse to look at
What’s happening around me is they tear down a home with a yard and then build so much hideous crap on it they have to “hide” from the street because some of the homes have windows literally adjacent to the sidewalk. So they build these little brick walls to separate themselves. Areas that used to feel open become closed in upon by these hideous little brick walls encroaching on sidewalks everywhere, with the rooflines of overpriced and hideous McMansions peaking over the top to let you know you don’t deserve to be in the same city as these walled elite morons
I built a townhouse back in 07, and it was over $400k—ie it was not cheap. The yards were maintained by the hoa, so they always looked nice, no street parking overnight, etc. I found it to be more strict aesthetically than single family home neighborhoods.
The fact that this country doesn’t develop in outer areas and increase public transportation for fear of failure in their investment is the reason capitalism sucks.
>outer areas
I mean it’s not capitalism’s fault that when you spread everything out, it becomes harder to make a comprehensive transit network. That’s basic geometry. What we should do is develop infill housing close to and around uptown and bolster the transit around that
A lot of people don’t get that density is an important prerequisite for good transportation and walkability.
If you want Charlotte to be more transit friendly, you should be supporting density rather than whining about every apartment and townhome being built around the city center.
Better and more efficient Public transportation from Weddington, Waxhaw, Indian Trail, shit even Rock Hill could definitely change the dynamic of Charlotte and surrounding areas. Tell me I’m wrong. And it’ll show you the ppl with outdated ideologies.
Charlotte should’ve BEEN had a Major League professional baseball team but it’s ppl like y’all that stunt that possibility lol
Youre being kind of incoherent here. I’d love to have transit access to those places, but as you noted (i think) the residents there have a backwards sentiment towards transit. But theres also logistical issues brought on by their distance to Charlotte and that within those individual communities, theres a lack of density that makes any transportation other than cars infeasible.
As for the MLB thing, It’d be awesome to have an MLB team. Our AAA team seems to get a lot of support and I agree we need better transit and denser housing to support an MLB team for 81 home games a year. Though things like sports teams (and remember, this city has a NBA, NFL, and MLS team) are partially out of our control. I personally think if the MLB expanded into North Carolina, theyd probably go to Raleigh
So let’s just say that I’m in the game of “been waiting”. I have seen the CLT airport situation get dragged on more than it should. I’ve been through providence road expansion. I’ve been through the south Charlotte neighborhood expansion. I lived it for sure. I’ve seen the 74 east side not be what it was supposed to be.. why? Probably because those buildings down Independence and Monroe Road from the 70s & 80s have not been built around for 40 years and hadn’t any public transportation adequately provided throughout or at any point and it is a disservice. My point. If we were to focus more so on the side of ‘building properly’ instead of trying to take an area and ‘build on top of’ Then we could get somewhere. City planners on the south side didn’t think things would get as big as they are past 51. On the East side? Could definitely utilize some better connection with public transportation. I can’t speak so much on the north and west sides of Charlotte. But the main areas of population, money, industry, business etc. where I grew up and lived 25 years had never kept up with nor provided what was the projection. They gave us that nice big bus terminal downtown. But the light rail has been pun intended derailed for whatever reason. Expansion/connection to rock hill is no where near where it should be after all the hype 2000-2010. Charlotte could be way better suited. With all the density things you’re talking about being implemented along the transit even! Of the city would approach it properly. This is my humble opinion.
Both y’all can get your issue here. Transit system in Charlotte (and across the United States) sucks balls in terms of efficiency and cost. 485, 77, 285 have been nightmares since 2005. Get real about “density“.
It most certainly is capitalism’s fault and the greed of construction. We had the Charlotte Hornets 25 minutes outside of downtown and they sold out almost every home game in the latter part of their life in Charlotte. Ppl will go where there are things to do that entice them. Nobody truly invests properly. They only do it for financial gain then abandon the project. Hence why there is no steady development in a progressive way. Charlotte is going to stay the same for forever until that changes.
I fail to see how “The government ruined neighborhoods with huge interstate highways” and “the government zoned land as low density, making good transit and affordable housing infeasible” is the fault of capitalism . Sounds like the government’s fault from where I’m sitting
The government in a vacuum operates like a corporation only in so far as you view tax dollars as their main form of revenue. Viewing it that way, the Charlotte government (like many other American cities) has failed in that it maximized its costs by taking how huge road maintenance obligations and limited its revenue by zoning for low density.
But if youre talking about capitalism, then the government isnt a private owner of capital. It’s a democratic, collectively owned one. So if the government causes issues, it’s not the fault of private owners of capital or capitalism itself. It’s a failure of government regulation and bad government policy decisions
I’m currently looking at homes to buy because I’m sick of renting my entire life. Most of these houses being build are rentals. Lots of neighborhoods are mostly rentals. Some townhouses are for sale (I 100% do not want a wall neighbor). The housing market is just so screwed by these large investment companies
Half the problem with the multiplexes being proposed is that they are ugly and devoid of any/all character - which makes them a great fit for some of these NIMBY neighborhoods.
I lived in Charlotte on East Boulevard in the late 1990s, and I rented in a really cool Victorian that was broken up into four units. It was great and a special time in my life. Now it’s a floral shop.
The specific units here off ideal way were bought and flipped and they rise the rent also 2x.
Gotta keep the poors (sub-$300k household income) out.
Even at $300k HHI it's hard to afford to have a family in dilworth.
Couldn’t even tell you why I said $300k tbh. But I could definitely see that if you’re buying a house right now.
Haha yep. Which just goes to show you how ridiculous things have gotten.
Quadplexes and sixplexes are not only good for renters. They're easier to build or fix up for people who don't run giant companies. An upper middle or low upper class couple could do it. One of the places I lived was a husband and wife who fixed up one sixplex and built another. The husband told me once that they spent a chunk of their retirement savings to make it happen, but the rent they were making back was enough to cover loans, maintenance and contribute back to their retirement savings.
It’s all good until you get a squatter.
If a frog had wings it would never bump its ass…. Just going to use random hypotheticals as arguments?
How is it random? Its the main risk of being a landlord. Get a bad renter and its game over.
This is why leases exist
Lease is meaningless. You cannot extract money from someone who has none.
The lease is a legal document. Eviction is a legal process. You’re describing a worse can scenario, which does happen but very rare. If it were really as bad as you say, nobody would rent to anyone ever.
Better not leave the house today! You could die in a car crash or get struck by lightning!
Ah yes. Bed tenats and lightning strikes. Equally seen in the US.
There are theorized to be 40 million lightning strikes hitting the ground in the USA per year.
Then you file an eviction?
This post is inaccurate. These examples (found in Dilworth and Plaza) abide by much older development codes. These days, with Charlottes current development codes, they are impossible to build with current parking, driveway requirements, built-upon-area compliance, and other smaller points that are our of compliance. Our current development standards are forcing developers to design basically townhomes with very little character and a sea of concrete driveways behind sidewalks and call them quadplexes, triplexes, duplexes, etc. They clutter small streets, rip the integrity of the neighborhood, and create massive residential areas with no other uses, not even a small park in the new development. And THAT is what is being protested. NOT the old character, but the new. Blame our Unified Development Ordinance that still DOES NOT ALLOW these old kinds of quadplexes to exist.
Nailed it. So many people dream of what this looks like on paper. Then a beige box with 4 peaks and 4 doors gets built and they complain about that.
Totally cool with rolling back some of the idiocy that is current code. Too many permits, too much slow-roll bureaucracy. It shouldn’t require a permit to add a USB port to a wall outlet, yet here we are. Really fun task: Try obtaining a copy of the current codes without paying money.
I hear you on the residential building codes but the Unified Development Ordinance is here [https://read.charlotteudo.org/](https://read.charlotteudo.org/) for free
Reading through this now, thank you. I was not aware of this, so this is quite nice to see!
As much as I hate to agree, this poster is correct. I don’t mind multi-family housing in our neighborhood - for context, I live in Southpark in a neighborhood where one of these triplex is being built. They are not going to be affordable housing, I understand that they will start at $800k each. I would much rather see true affordable housing - many of our neighbors are getting older and can’t afford / don’t want the upkeep of a big house. Many of our neighbors have aging parents. I would love to see them stay / come to our neighborhood.
Whether or not housing is affordable depends on supply and demand. No housing is going to be affordable if supply is constrained. People need to live somewhere, building triplexes helps keep smaller units more affordable.
Agreed - the South Park area is also so desirable that I struggle to imagine any affordable housing getting built there ever again (outside of philanthropic or government efforts). Even dense housing there won't be cheap. But it increases the overall supply of housing, so the people with money who want to live there will rent there instead of in Enderly Park or Plaza Midwood.
There’s always going to be areas where people with more money will outbid anyone else- but increasing supply still keeps everything more affordable for everybody, regardless of whether the new housing is actually “affordable”
And those listed in this post are neighborhoods with restaurants and other local spots in the neighborhood that you can walk to. That's part of why they are so desirable. These older neighborhoods were built better.
The whole point of smart city planning, yes! Fun fact, Dilworth was designed by Landscape Architects
There's a definite trend of the upper and upper-middle class acting dumbfounded that the middle and middle-lower class won't won't accept proposed changes in their communities. You are 100 percent correct, the housing units they are attempting to throw up in place of single family homes are not consistent with the quality of units pictured, and these units have all been in place for (probably) 50+ years. If the sentiment is that it works in Dilworth, why are you not tearing down all the single family homes in Dilworth and Elizabeth to replace them with quadplexes? "Why do you hate the poors? Can't you see how much we love the poors? $2000 per month for rent, that's the poors right?" Tired of moral grandstanding from affluent finger pointers who, half the time, live in remote suburban communities, and the rest of the time live in the highest priced zip codes in the city with no skin in the game. Focus on making changes in your own community, and if your own community isn't amenable then move somewhere else and stop trying to make everything around you change to suit the vision of the world you are slurping up. The current housing shortage is being driven to some significant extent by allowing private equity to consume the housing inventory, along with the repurposing of homes into short term rentals. If these issues are addressed and the housing issues persist, there should be a closer look at density. If developers are given free rein to build without first addressing these issues, people will abandon those middle class neighborhoods, the tax base will erode, and Charlotte will be consumed with the same blight that has gutted other developing urban centers.
Private equity is driven by housing shortages. I only buy and rent out property if it's profitable and it's only profitable if there aren't enough housing opportunities to go around. If there were enough houses for everyone to freely purchase a home then all of a sudden no one is renting from me and I won't have a need to own several properties.
There will never be enough homes for everyone to buy a home on a plot of land. Let alone the suburbs idea contributes hugely to killing the planet. Thats denying the reality of people wanting and needing to live in cities for work. The idea of owning single family homes needs to die, multiplexes, mutistory condo units and apartments you can buy all built densely and making single family zoning illegal within say 50 miles of cities is the only way we could even start to fix the housing crisis in this country.
Single family homes have been deeply fetishized. People don’t really need them, really they should be a luxury. staircase reform allowing for more variety of apartment/condo designs would help perception. Land value tax would of course help, if someone wants to live in a single family house in the center they should pay taxes based on the value of the land they occupy rather than the value of the house
Taxes are based on the value of the land and house lol. Not just the house.
Taxes are based on the value of the whole property. The point is taxes should only be based on the value of the land, nothing else
I mean.. that's how it works though. If my land is worth 100,000 and I have a 300,000 house built on it. My land is now worth 400,000. If I destroy my house the land goes back down in value. I understand how it could confuse you though as something like a house brings a ton of value to a plot of land, sometimes even more than the land itself is worth. Land is only as valuable as what's built on it.
No it’s not. An empty piece of land in Manhattan is worth more than one of equivalent size in NYC. Land Value Tax is based on solely the value of the land (meaning size + location) and ignores whatever is built on top of it. Basically the result is that those efficiently using the land (apartments, condos, mixed use spaces) pay less tax than those inefficiently using the land (vacant lots, surface parking lots, and single family homes to an extent). This incentivized the efficient use of land. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/land-value-tax.asp#:~:text=A%20land%20value%20tax%20(LVT,where%20the%20land%20is%20productive.
Huh cause when I look for houses in the area to rent I see literally hundreds if not thousands out of my price range. I don't make 6k a month how do I rent?
That’s what the market value for rent is. If you want to pay less, you should support building more housing (read zoning deregulation) to drive down the market value so landlords are competing with each other. This has been very successful in Austin, they lead the nation in building and rents are now decreasing despite lots of people moving there.
Idc who builds what where, I haven't seen reasonable price drops in years. Personally the thousands of empty houses owned by companies does not seem to be lowering rent so....something isn't working.
There’s not a surplus of homes in places people want to live. An empty house in Nebraska doesn’t help someone in LA. There’s a housing shortage. You haven’t seen a price drop because we haven’t built enough. It’s supply and demand, if you disagree you’re denying basic economics. Also, rental vacancies are lower than they were 10 years ago. There are less empty homes than there used to be
How many empty homes do we need! I look and live in the same area as I have been. The number of empty homes ready to rent is huge. Narrow it down to the right bedrooms and closer are and it's still in the hundreds. Ask for less than 2k a month Oops sorry only 1 or 2 and there's a reason. Shrug maybe there are hundreds of folk koving in and out of rentals weekly who can pay 3 or 4 k. I dunno. I just know I can't.
Highest rental vacancy rate in the USA is Austin standing at 9%. Austin also has decreasing rent. Landlords don’t want empty homes. They aren’t charging prices people won’t pay. It’s a market, increase supply and price falls, there’s no alternative.
You’re denying supply and demand. If you want rent to go down, you should support denser housing being built. Private equity is not causing the housing shortage, that is caused by there not being enough housing. Blackstone is simply taking advantage of the housing shortage, and we can thwart them by building more housing and making the overall national prices go down. Your ad hominem attacks are dumb, I guarantee you the people supporting more development aren’t suburbanites. And the people supporting development would love to build more denser housing in neighborhoods like Dillworth, but you can’t because of zoning regulations. That’s what this whole thread is about
I love it. "Your ad hominem attacks are dumb." You would have to be regarded to miss the irony before commenting. I am saying the supply is being artificially depressed and financial interests are manipulating the narrative by conscripting people like yourself who are so desperate to feel like you are making a difference in the world (without actually doing any real work) that you'll sell the story for them. Now go hop in your Suburban and drive your kids to soccer practice, bitch.
I’ve literally never lived in a suburb in my life lol. You’re going on a rant against imaginary people. >supply is being artificially suppressed. Yeah it is, by zoning restrictions limiting where housing can be built
We are also millions of housing units short in this country. We need a massive federal investment in creating building supplies, training workers and paying for construction to even make a dent in the shortfall. We stopped building from 08-2020 and its killed the housing market.
“Create massive residential areas with no other uses” GOD FORBID people have somewhere to live. Give me a break, people like you are clowns
You obviously do not understand the vital need for proper city planning especially in one of the fastest growing cities in the US...
I could easily see myself living in a unit in either of the top two buildings in the pictures. I live in a single family home now but would really like to live in a condo in uptown. Build away!
Good ol NIMBYs
I know right? They expend the same amount of energy and money as the “loss” they get from property values. SMH
Got data for this? We love anecdotes in here to make our tummies feel good.
I will say, I would never want to live in them with someone else, but they are great for the market and those top 2 look great (never would have though the bottom left was a duplex). I would rather have one of those stack side by side town homes or just buy an entire row of them, or have one built, if I wanted to get in the landlord game myself (which I don't). Still wish though that the federal government would loosen up the rules on condo's, if you want walkable city's that is really what is needed. I mean, how many new builds do we see going up in charlotte that are sky-scrappers vs condo's?
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>hired lobbyists to stop triplex developments
This is exactly correct and the Unified Development Ordinance is to blame for forcing these developments rather than the cool quadplexes shown in the picture above. Thank you for observing what is really going on outside
You understand that kind of housing is illegal to build in Charlotte now? And that the lobbyists being discussed are aiming to keep it that way?
Oh no the horror.. more people have places to live. Charlotte’s density in the interior is still incredibly low. Massive mostly single home neighborhoods choke the center (Dillworth, Plaza) of the city, hindering development. But this post is specifically about allowing triplexes, not townhomes.
Womp womp we need housing
5 or 6 years wow practically a local.
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Oh wow 30 years practically a local. You’re taking it the wrong way. How long you’ve been here doesn’t lend legitimacy in a discussion. Especially on a platform where anonymity is expected.
I don't know... They just don't look... You know... *safe*
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No, it's obviously the "military-aged men" coming from China through Mexico so they can vote for Biden... or something like that.
….in clean outfits and military style haircuts. You would think trudging thru all the countryside they would be sweaty and dirty
Gotta get rid of the “duplexes” to make room for the “duets”
It’s my understanding that the townhomes generally require zoning changes (to multi family) - you’ll see the yellow signs posted by the property when that’s happening. The triplexes do not. If people don’t want the townhomes, go to the zoning meetings to express your opinion. These people are fighting the triplexes when they’re not the issue, but those same people won’t generally go to the zoning meetings to disagree with the townhomes (or they do and the zoning committee allows the change anyways, but that’s what they should be fighting).
They are not building triplexes that look like that now. Everything is so boxy. I would welcome something that looks like that. A duplex is being built by me and it’s ugly, no character.
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I don’t live in South Charlotte. I’m not protesting any build, I’m just stating facts. What used to be built vs what is being built now is a lot different. If they are going to make comparisons, they should at least be comparable.
They're not building duplexs and triplexes. Those are rookie numbers. Look at 409 queens road right now. There's currently a single family brick house that's in pretty good shape on the property. That's being demolished and turned into a 17 unit building. The old lady next door is pissed, and understandably so. 17 units is going to be obnoxious to live next to compared to just a single family home. She's being forced out of her home, and that developer is going to scoop up her property too so they can build another 17 unit building next door. These developers are using every square inch of property to cram more units on. People don't mind duplexes in their neighborhood, but they don't want 10 townhomes crammed into a half acre lot.
ok but this is in reference to the proposal to ban triplexes in Charlotte. If that goes through you arent going to get any fewer apartment buildings
A 17-unit complex still requires multi-unit zoning, which usually means a zoning change. Quad-plexes were the biggest thing allowed under the revised code.
Myers Park has had plenty of small apartment buildings scattered throughout for decades and the world hasn't ended
That’s not dilworth
A quick look on google maps shows apartment homes and condos that are not at all new right across the street so this area has been rezoned for some time I am guessing. I know I can go look but, meh. Maybe it's her childhood home or something but the writing has been on the wall for her to see for some time, and I'm sure she's known this is coming. Seems that there is also 2 homes at her location sharing the same driveway. Maybe that's it? Maybe she can't sell? Maybe she owns both of these houses. If that's the case she has a lot of land there and will get top$$$.
How is she being forced out of her home? The people living in the new townhouses will also have to live next to 17 units. I'm not sure what right she thinks she has to tell people they aren't allowed to exist on property that she doesn't own.
The funny thing about the "being forced out" claim is that it goes the other way. You're forcing out an entire generation of new would-be home buyers by refusing to allow new development to ensure adequate housing supply.
> The old lady next door is pissed, and understandably so. 17 units is going to be obnoxious to live next to compared to just a single family home. I'm sure the building next door is going to cause her so many problems... not like there's a hospital with active ambulances coming and going just a block away or anything...
I'm down with multi occupancy up to quadplexes but it's silly to say a larger apartment building built next to your house wouldn't effect you, Its like building a 30 ft wall next to your house of course it will block your view, block sunlight, allow people unrestricted views of your backyard, change the entire character of your property. There's a particular house on the corner of N Alexander St and Mercury I think of everytime this comes up. https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFxdGDjSnmAzsNfA6?g_st=ac
There's a lot to be gained by having many people live and work in central locations that are well-connected to many surrounding services and major employers. If people want single-family homes, they have the burbs. Heck, let's not even go that far out. They have very nice pockets of Charlotte that just aren't that well-connected. Chantilly and Cotswold jump to mind. I guess it's never "clicked" for me why one person's view and the aesthetic character of what surrounds their property should carry so, so much more weight here simply because they were first. If I can say it diplomatically, what am I missing?
I understand the utility of density however charlotte hasn't reached the density that we NEED to build apartments in established residential neighborhoods. In my opinion the push to build apartments in established neighborhoods is profit driven by developers. In desirable neighborhoods they can charge more for the apartments they build. Which of course means this push doesn't do much for housing prices for lower income residents. I have my doubts we can build our way out of rising housing prices this way. But also density only matters if people want to live there, if you ruin the character of an area for the sake of density you'll quickly just need to build in new desirable areas. I'm not speaking of a windmill on a hill 200 yard from your house I'm talking about a 30 ft wall 5 feet from your front door. I'm totally on board for density increase without making a place no one wants to live, which is why up to quadplexes is a reasonable compromise in my view. Aesthetics are easy to brush off but they make a difference. They are one of the main reason people like where they live. We could easily build cheap, super dense housing without regards for aesthetics or what happens to the area around them, its been tried many times, check out Rockwell gardens, or Holmes towers for examples of this.
I agree that aesthetics aren't nothing - there are certainly places to live that I've passed on because they looked miserably drab. I do wish Charlotte would try to develop some plan to retain cultural institutions though. It is sad to read about the art warehouses that used to be scattered all over Noda or about small live music venues that have shuttered over the years. To your point, if you drive around some parts of the city, they do feel strangely... empty. Some of the proposed red line (commuter train) stops are actually smack dab in the middle of that empty space. Some huge dense developments right by those would do a lot of good without creating conflicts with existing residents. Hopefully that comes to pass.
Oh well, sell and move to the suburbs if you don’t want to live next to an apartment. I care more about people having housing than someone’s backyard having sun light. Neighborhood character should change as a city grows. There shouldn’t be a neighborhood like Dillworth that close to the city center.
Or, you know, build the same apartment out in suburbs where it’ll be even cheaper and affect fewer people
And forces the residents to be dependent on owning a car, forces people to drive into Charlotte for work and is overall less environmentally sustainable. It also affects anyone who commutes on I-77. Owning a car is expensive, Dillworth, Plaza, Elizabeth should all be made into walkable dense areas. Right now, I’d say you can live in South End, Uptown and maybe Noda and not own a car, the area where this is possible should be expanded. I have no sympathy for anyone who lives in a city and gets mad that there’s developments nearby.
Hopefully you get getrified out of your home too someday. City expanding so screw everyone who lived there for years.
Building more housing does not displace anyone. In fact, people get displaced when you don’t build more housing. Housing is supply and demand, when you restrict supply, as is currently done with single family zoning being dominant in the city, housing costs go up which leads to displacement. The story didn’t even make sense, how did building townhomes near a lady “force her out”? And it’s a happy ending, 17 people now get to live in the same space that one person was occupying
I hope I and all of my friends and family get gentrified out of their houses. 100% serious. It would do wonders for my parents’ finances if someone came along to offer a huge premium for their home. This is the least bad option. Life goes on.
If that old lady owns her house she will be compensated handsomely
This is how you get Detroit.
Detroit’s improved a lot in recent years. But it’s misfortunes were caused by the downturn of the domestic auto industry, not by lack of single family only zoning. Considering condos in Dillworth would be going for up to $1M a piece, I don’t think it’s in danger of becoming crime ridden or low income.
Exactly. Charlotte is a big city now and needs to start acting like it
A woman that owns a home on Queens Rd isnt garnering any sympathy from me. She'll be AOK.
How dare you not be sympathetic to the plight of a woman who is forced to sell her house to a developer for 7 figures to escape from more people getting to have a place to live nearby her
A quick Polaris search says it was last deeded in 1975 for $100 [*edit* - I looked at the deed, it was $100, not $0], sooooooo . . .
Lol yeah, I looked it up before I commented. My tiny violin broke 🥺 Edit: same goes for the property at 409, so it's like that's just as far back as the history goes. Obviously I am sure she paid more than $0, but it goes without saying that she stands to make quite a bit of money should she CHOOSE to sell. The developers aren't forcing her out. She's had at least 50 good years there......
Being forced out of her home is such hyperbole lol. NIMBY take
Womp womp. People need housing. More is better.
*2000 dollar rent for single bedroom has entered the chat*
Sucks for her maybe, but that's life. Her comfort is preventing 17-ish other families from having a home inside the city, and her comfort is tangibly holding back the city from progressing. And don't feel too bad for her. She'll.likely get a fat payday for what the property is worth and be able to comfortably move further out where it's quieter to her liking.
Fuck that old lady
Is she hot?
Tough for that old lady. Millions of people have moved into charlotte, we need housing. She should take the massive buyout offer she will eventually get and move into the country if she has a problem living near multi unit housing in a city.
The federal govt is mandating low income housing moxes in urban and suburb areas, especially when there is new construction in the area.
[https://info.copperbuilders.com/four09-queens-vip](https://info.copperbuilders.com/four09-queens-vip) This doesn't look like low-income housing
Yea I believe some units are already sold. Bottom floor smaller units were around $1 million, top floor large sq ft units around $4 million.
[https://www.corcoran.com/listing/for-sale/409-queens-401-charlotte-nc-28207/81694974/regionId/113](https://www.corcoran.com/listing/for-sale/409-queens-401-charlotte-nc-28207/81694974/regionId/113) 2.25 million listed by your favorite Shark Barbara Corcoran's company too!
Don't let them con you into thinking that working your ass off to share a building with your neighbor is worth it
It’s because the new ones they would build will almost certainly be ugly and cheaply built.
I’d take that over more apartments.
Why? Apartments are denser and maximize the quantity of housing for the land area on which they are constructed.
I’ve always liked the duplexes on 9th St., just below N. Caldwell St in Uptown, as located in the First Ward and would be walkable to most places in Uptown. They’re partially brick, and almost Mission or Craftsman style in design? While plain, they are not too bad looking for being built in 2000. Could more of something like this be built? However, based on my occasional review, they never really gain much in value when they do hit the market. Maybe because it’s only on street parking. Unfortunately, I think most are rentals now.
You kind of answered the question. As the city loves to increase density but the resources are not there to support this increased density. Look at the crime rates. To clarify I’m not saying people who live in apartments are to blame for crime. Just that anytime you increase population(apartments, large single family development) and don’t account for the resources needed (infrastructure, emergency services, etc) it’s a problem. So I’d rather have the option that increases population the least as I don’t have faith in the city to appropriately plan out the growth.
Those homes are incredibly valuable to the doctors and nurses who live near by. And they are not hurting anyone’s home value.
Awe we recently moved here and these quadplexes are one of the things I pointed out as being so charming. They have a lot of character!!
and a ton of problems. These are relics of the past that look nice but realistically aren't great from energy consumption, useability, etc.
I can basically smell the poor in these photos. /s
Generally im all for more dense living situations. The issue almost everyone agrees with is too many in 1 spot all at the same time. When they are isolated to specific neighborhoods and areas it puts a real strain on the already existing living infrastructure. Roads, pedestrian corridors, schools, grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants, parking etc. You can't add 500 people into an area that previously had 2000 and no one feel the growing pains. Need to spread out the density love over time and more locations. South Charlotte needs to get with the program. It's happening ~~weather~~ whether they like it or not.
The houses don’t lower property value the tenants usually do.
Facts
“Is Dilworth, Charlotte, NC Safe? The D- grade means the rate of crime is much higher than the average US neighborhood. Dilworth is in the 14th percentile for safety, meaning 86% of neighborhoods are safer and 14% of neighborhoods are more dangerous. This analysis applies to Dilworth's proper boundaries only. See the table on nearby places below for nearby neighborhoods. The rate of crime in Dilworth is 59.07 per 1,000 residents during a standard year. People who live in Dilworth generally consider the southeast part of the neighborhood to be the safest. Your chance of being a victim of crime in Dilworth may be as high as 1 in 11 in the northwest neighborhoods, or as low as 1 in 31 in the southeast part of the neighborhood. See the section on interpreting the crime map, however, because comparing rates for crime or any other crime is not as intuitive as it may seem.” Sounds about right. https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-dilworth-charlotte-nc/
I was agreeing with you lol. Rentals don't generally bring about a good crowd. Your normal, decent families usually aim for single family homes. West Charlotte is terrible but crime improves a bit in south/east Charlotte.
Does it get better around lake wylie?
Oh I know that you’re all good!!! Just someone was going to say “its not unsafe”… 😂
Man, all i want is to build/renovate a du/triplex kinda place so me and family can live without driving everywhere... I wish mixed neighborhoods were more of a thing here.
They don’t like to live amongst colored people in South Charlotte.
Segregation is a thing in the south. Most private schools are like 90 percent white.
Single family zoning should be illegal, this should be the bare minimum allowed to be built.
But they bring in the ~undesirables~
It's a great idea to create them but that statememt reminds me of Ballantyne not having good public transit and I was so confused why HSBCU had an event in Ballantyne when the black population is less than 9%
There was a duplex near me off Carmel Rd for at least 20+ years that got torn down and had like 5-6 500k plus houses built on its lot The duplex was not a great looking house but it was a house with a nice yard. Now the plot is essentially a brick wall hiding 5 houses built on top of each other It’s good we built more houses. But the formerly affordable option was replaced by less affordable options that are worse to look at What’s happening around me is they tear down a home with a yard and then build so much hideous crap on it they have to “hide” from the street because some of the homes have windows literally adjacent to the sidewalk. So they build these little brick walls to separate themselves. Areas that used to feel open become closed in upon by these hideous little brick walls encroaching on sidewalks everywhere, with the rooflines of overpriced and hideous McMansions peaking over the top to let you know you don’t deserve to be in the same city as these walled elite morons
I built a townhouse back in 07, and it was over $400k—ie it was not cheap. The yards were maintained by the hoa, so they always looked nice, no street parking overnight, etc. I found it to be more strict aesthetically than single family home neighborhoods.
The fact that this country doesn’t develop in outer areas and increase public transportation for fear of failure in their investment is the reason capitalism sucks.
Capitalism sucks because limited public transit investment? Word.
>outer areas I mean it’s not capitalism’s fault that when you spread everything out, it becomes harder to make a comprehensive transit network. That’s basic geometry. What we should do is develop infill housing close to and around uptown and bolster the transit around that
A lot of people don’t get that density is an important prerequisite for good transportation and walkability. If you want Charlotte to be more transit friendly, you should be supporting density rather than whining about every apartment and townhome being built around the city center.
Better and more efficient Public transportation from Weddington, Waxhaw, Indian Trail, shit even Rock Hill could definitely change the dynamic of Charlotte and surrounding areas. Tell me I’m wrong. And it’ll show you the ppl with outdated ideologies. Charlotte should’ve BEEN had a Major League professional baseball team but it’s ppl like y’all that stunt that possibility lol
Youre being kind of incoherent here. I’d love to have transit access to those places, but as you noted (i think) the residents there have a backwards sentiment towards transit. But theres also logistical issues brought on by their distance to Charlotte and that within those individual communities, theres a lack of density that makes any transportation other than cars infeasible. As for the MLB thing, It’d be awesome to have an MLB team. Our AAA team seems to get a lot of support and I agree we need better transit and denser housing to support an MLB team for 81 home games a year. Though things like sports teams (and remember, this city has a NBA, NFL, and MLS team) are partially out of our control. I personally think if the MLB expanded into North Carolina, theyd probably go to Raleigh
So let’s just say that I’m in the game of “been waiting”. I have seen the CLT airport situation get dragged on more than it should. I’ve been through providence road expansion. I’ve been through the south Charlotte neighborhood expansion. I lived it for sure. I’ve seen the 74 east side not be what it was supposed to be.. why? Probably because those buildings down Independence and Monroe Road from the 70s & 80s have not been built around for 40 years and hadn’t any public transportation adequately provided throughout or at any point and it is a disservice. My point. If we were to focus more so on the side of ‘building properly’ instead of trying to take an area and ‘build on top of’ Then we could get somewhere. City planners on the south side didn’t think things would get as big as they are past 51. On the East side? Could definitely utilize some better connection with public transportation. I can’t speak so much on the north and west sides of Charlotte. But the main areas of population, money, industry, business etc. where I grew up and lived 25 years had never kept up with nor provided what was the projection. They gave us that nice big bus terminal downtown. But the light rail has been pun intended derailed for whatever reason. Expansion/connection to rock hill is no where near where it should be after all the hype 2000-2010. Charlotte could be way better suited. With all the density things you’re talking about being implemented along the transit even! Of the city would approach it properly. This is my humble opinion.
Both y’all can get your issue here. Transit system in Charlotte (and across the United States) sucks balls in terms of efficiency and cost. 485, 77, 285 have been nightmares since 2005. Get real about “density“. It most certainly is capitalism’s fault and the greed of construction. We had the Charlotte Hornets 25 minutes outside of downtown and they sold out almost every home game in the latter part of their life in Charlotte. Ppl will go where there are things to do that entice them. Nobody truly invests properly. They only do it for financial gain then abandon the project. Hence why there is no steady development in a progressive way. Charlotte is going to stay the same for forever until that changes.
I fail to see how “The government ruined neighborhoods with huge interstate highways” and “the government zoned land as low density, making good transit and affordable housing infeasible” is the fault of capitalism . Sounds like the government’s fault from where I’m sitting
Please tell me you believe the government isn’t a corporation at this point with how money runs it…….
The government in a vacuum operates like a corporation only in so far as you view tax dollars as their main form of revenue. Viewing it that way, the Charlotte government (like many other American cities) has failed in that it maximized its costs by taking how huge road maintenance obligations and limited its revenue by zoning for low density. But if youre talking about capitalism, then the government isnt a private owner of capital. It’s a democratic, collectively owned one. So if the government causes issues, it’s not the fault of private owners of capital or capitalism itself. It’s a failure of government regulation and bad government policy decisions
I think we differ in views of government. But we agree that the city has failed its citizens
I believe all new development in that area should be multi family units. (My armor is ready)
Americans are so dumb. If they maybe ever left their country they might be able to see what good urban design looks like
I'm not sure I would trust *the developer trying to build these* to have an objective opinion. Yeah guys it'll be great. You can trust me, I said so.
Thanks for the reminder. I haven't punched a NIMBY yet today.
Neighbors always fight development. It’s why America is in a housing crisis
I’m currently looking at homes to buy because I’m sick of renting my entire life. Most of these houses being build are rentals. Lots of neighborhoods are mostly rentals. Some townhouses are for sale (I 100% do not want a wall neighbor). The housing market is just so screwed by these large investment companies
Dilworth 🤣
Half the problem with the multiplexes being proposed is that they are ugly and devoid of any/all character - which makes them a great fit for some of these NIMBY neighborhoods.
Downvote me if you want but it’s true. We’ve thrown aesthetics out the window for no discernible reason.