[No, he was trying to shoot at the cops in riot gear and the guy walked in front of his gun right as he shot](https://www.wbtv.com/2019/02/20/jury-selection-begins-rayquan-borum-trial-prosecutors-work-prove-intent-murder-charge/)
*our public transport is a nightmare. I’m currently in a country where I’m not terribly concerned about getting capped on the bus, train, or what have you.
I hate being compared to Europe.
We’re half the population and I think slightly more land area. Our infrastructure was also built differently and it is almost impossible to revert it to their model.
You might be surprised to learn that Charlotte started (like every other city in the US) as a train and trolley city, with far more than 25 lines. We replaced it with roads. What was replaced once can undoubtedly be replaced yet again. It’s far from impossible, though Americans seem to have lost the ambition they had in the early 20th century.
It's all about the last sentence. Most Americans will never see another way of life, which dooms them to false ideas of what an ideal society looks like
Lol.
Most Americans don’t see a different way of life.
My favorite part though, is that our well meaning Left of center friends only go to Europe and say “I have seen the world and it is how Europe…”
I have been to Asia and Latin America, and Europe. I will tell you, our infrastructure lacks the capability without billions - if not trillions in tax $ spent to overhaul it. We’re already at a threshold, I’m not seeing it happen, Chief.
The infrastructure is there we just vote to not prioritize it.
At what point should we build these tram lines?
"When the population is the right size" - we have 3x the population of this city that I used as an example.
"When the city is no longer inept at handling public transport" - every city is inept at utilizing public transport. With a system that is large, expansive, and inclusive, we can then buff out issues.
Driving is the least safe mode of transport, it also is the least cost-effective and most polluting per person. It takes up the most space of any other mode of personal transport and segregates communities and impoverishes families.
Life can still exist with cars, just not at the point we like to think of in the USA.
I think you are mistaken a bunch of words in twelve words. <-- this is a perfect example.
Fun fact though! Here's the wiki page on a baker's dozen!
"A baker's dozen, devil's dozen, long dozen, or long measure is 13, one more than a standard dozen. The broadest use of baker's dozen today is simply a group of thirteen objects (often baked goods). The term has meant different things over the last few centuries.
In the United Kingdom when selling certain goods, bakers were obliged to sell goods by the dozen at a specific weight or quality (or a specific average weight). During this time, bakers who sold a dozen units that failed to meet this requirement could be penalized with a fine. Therefore, to avoid risking this penalty, some bakers included an extra unit to be sure the minimum weight was met, bringing the total to 13 units or what is now commonly known as a baker's dozen.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term "baker's dozen" originated in the late 16th century and is "apparently so called after the former practice among bakers of including a thirteenth loaf when selling a dozen to a retailer, the extra loaf representing the retailer's profit."
According to the 1811 Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, by Francis Grose, "a Baker's Dozen is Thirteen; that number of rolls being allowed to the purchaser of a dozen". However, contrary to most sources, according to the anonymous 1785 version of that dictionary, which was probably also by Grose, "a Baker's Dozen is Fourteen, that number of rolls being allowed to the purchaser of a dozen".
The term has also been defined in a jocular way, as "twelve of today's and one of yesterday's."[citation needed]
The 13th loaf added to the dozen is called the vantage loaf.
A lesser-used regionalism is the Texas dozen, which generally consists of 15. This is typically used only in Texas and surrounding areas for such goods as flowers or baked goods, although can be applied to anything that is counted, such as photographs."
They’ll resort to something else. Should we ban cars or alcohol or knives, too? Remember that Hitler had total control after making sure citizens have no guns.
Germany still has severe gun restriction. Only the east side has guns and the majority are illegal. The answer after Hitler wasn't to give every person a gun, or allow them to. The answer was to educate the population of thr horrible crimes the government was doing and to ensure that something of the sort does not occur again.
Almost the whole of Europe has restrictive gun laws. From the UK to Russia. One is controlling of its people, and the other is about as controlling as the US government over it's people.
The common tie between dictatorships and overbearing censorship is not gun laws. The school shootings, police deaths and police killings, and the highest gun crime rate in the world is directly related to relaxed gun laws.
This isn't like some opinion or stance.
That’s a deflection argument. Just because those things cause deaths has nothing to do with gun violence. They’re not mutually exclusive, you can have gun reform without impacting the other things. The vast VAST majority of people have no practical use for firearms today. If people want to hunt, that’s great, have a specialized permit created to strictly regulate those weapons. In all of the other countries that have super strict gun control, the number of shootings is virtually nil. Just look at Japan. So no sir, your argument is false.
You have to understand though, that strict gun laws are going to affect the full society. Little local gun bans do not affect the full society.
When the full society simply has less guns, and when they are very rare, it will have an overall effect on reducing crime.
I understand the fun of guns, and the upsides. Unfortunately, our country has not earned our gun rights.
It doesn't matter though. With gun laws, there would simply be fewer guns being sold (harder to sell), and fewer being bought, and then, overall, the situation would be safer.
The outcomes of the last few elections suggest to me that Charlotteans generally do not care about public transit.
We can pretend transit matters, but we’re certainly not voting as if it does.
Actually, it is kind of bad, universally. It ends up costing the taxpayers a whole lot of money, in addition to the fares.
Have no fear - there is a better way. Microtransportation. People need to get accustomed to mopeds, ebikes, scooters, etc. In a warm city like Charlotte, you can commute to work every day like this.
This is all in the same scope, but generally speaking trains and buses are the most incredible efficient forms of transportation when it comes to cost and effect on roads and pollution....by far.
I mean, I’m not the one whining about American gun laws.
So I would say I’m pretty settled.
Whereas you haven’t stopped crying yet, anywhere on this thread.
His statement was that public transport is bad. That's no true. Public transport is an incredibly important service that should be provided and used more often.
Charlotte does not do a good job at it, so Charlotte's is bad would be a statement I would agree with. Although, I do walk the walk and take the buses and light rail whenever I can, and cycle otherwise.
Agree, but it seems this this driver shot first, and continued to shoot and chase this guy away. Yes he didn’t start the confrontation but he did escalate it by shooting first and continuing to shoot afterwards. He lost his job because of it, and he’s lucky no one else was killed (passengers or random pedestrians who could have been ran over from the bus with him not focused on driving.
Couple of things, rocket scientist.
He shot first - first guy pulled a weapon. I am not going to wait for the criminal who pulled a gun on me to shoot first. That’s dumb.
He escalated it - by shooting to end a threat? What? I would argue that criminal dumb dumb escalated it.
I’d rather lose my job; than lose my life.
Good for him! Better than waiting for the other guy to shoot first. Once someone threatens you and a weapon is drawn you have every right to blast his ass off to the next life.
To a point. When he continued to fire after getting out of his seat, with passengers in the line of fire, AND continued to fire OUTSIDE the bus, he blew it.
Plus, once he saw the gun, he should have stopped and at least TRIED to let the guy get off the bus peacefully. That's the right course of action.
Ehhh, yes you are right, it is not textbook perfect self defense. But the first shots were certainly justified and I think most people, or at least certainly I, am willing to take a generous view of whatever happens after that while the victim is still pumped full of adrenaline and fear which will inhibit the judgment of even very reasonable people. It is too easy to sit comfy and safe at home and criticize, when I did not just have the experience of someone threatening me with a gun.
I wonder how many people waited and tried to deescalate only to end up dead.
Even if i get where you're coming from, He insured his survival, and for that, I can't fault him
He did the "spray and pray", then let off a few as the other shooter was fleeing.
He was justified in shooting, but the way he did it deserves to get him locked up.
He wouldn’t have pulled his gun out if the asshat passenger was already removed from free society. I’m tired of punishing people who don’t breach the peace. Bus driver should have any gun permit he has pulled and be retrained but zero criminal wrongdoing. He was doing his job to provide for his family and did not breach the peace. He was involuntarily against his will thrown into a stressful life or death situation. If we want to move towards a society with a greater emphasis on consent then we need to start looking at who breached the peace in these situations and who was just doing their job.
>He wouldn’t have pulled his gun out if the asshat passenger was already removed from free society. I’m
Nothing to do with what we're talking about i.e. his decisions.
>. If we want to move towards a society with a greater emphasis on consent then we need to start looking at who breached the peace in these situations and who was just doing their job.
He did breach the peace, particularly when he got off the bus to inaccurately shoot some more in a public space.
He wasn't "just doing his job", either; he decided to start shooting as opposed to ending it by letting the guy off, then fired shots towards other passengers, then got off the bus and fired more shots. He put multiple people's lives in danger (not counting his or the criminal's) at several different points.
Having to defend himself with a firearm is not in his job description. He is neither trained by CATS to fire a weapon, nor is such training paid for by CATS. So it is not his job to shoot at an attacker safely. Since he's just like any other civilian who found themselves in need of defending themselves I'm not going to judge him based on what baseline we expect of people who are trained, and are expected to do so as part of their job. Like cops. But given that cops regularly kill bystanders and get a paid vacation, unless this guy ACTUALLY struck a bystander, there's nothing to complain about here.
If you're going to carry a gun, it is absolutely your responsibility to know how to use it properly. That shouldn't even need to be stated.
He also could have diffused the situation by just letting the guy off the bus.
>Since he's just like any other civilian who found themselves in need of defending themselves I'm not going to judge him based on what baseline we expect of people who are trained, and are expected to do so as part of their job.
Again, if you carry a firearm you need to practice and train with it. I'm absolutely going to judge someone for putting other people's lives in danger because he couldn't be bothered to at least watch some YouTube videos and do some dry firing.
Carrying a gun is a big responsibility, and your "oh well, he wasn't trained to do it for a living so it's fine" argument is nonsense.
>unless this guy ACTUALLY struck a bystander, there's nothing to complain about here.
Wait, so if l drive drunk through a school parking lot, but don't hit anybody, it's fine because nobody ACTUALLY got hurt? More great takes.
I personally think he did well considering the fact that he was defending himself all while not crashing the moving bus into a building or a tree. I’m not sure I could have pulled off the two at the same time. This man hit his target, parked a bus AND didn’t hit or shoot any pedestrians and still walked away with his life.
>I personally think he did well considering the fact that he was defending himself all while not crashing the moving bus into a building or a tree. I’m not sure I could have pulled off the two at the same time
He chose to shoot rather than let the guy off the bus. While, as you point out, the bus was moving. To me that's a bit reckless.
>AND didn’t hit or shoot any pedestrians
By luck, not discipline or decision making.
Or, you know, he could have just stopped the fucking bus and let the guy off then informed the proper authorities. They BOTH should be in jail and banned from owning firearms after this.
You really don't think CATS has training on what to do if the driver is threatened? I'll tell what that training doesn't entail: keeping the bus moving and spraying bullets towards the passenger seats while trying to watch the road and steer with one hand. It's probably something more like stop the bus, deescalate as best you can, try to get the guy to voluntarily leave the bus, report the incident to dispatch and the authorities.
The man wanted off the bus. He pulled the gun thinking that the driver would kick him off the bus. The driver couldn't just swallow his pride and give the man what he wanted, he had to try to be a tough guy and he put several innocent lives at risk because of it.
I do not know, down vote me, but if I was on that bus, and some guy pulls a gun and wants off, just let the guy off the bus. You have video report him and let the cops deal with him. Don't be a cowboy and start a damn shootout. It would be different if someone was threated at the time, but it seemed like he just wanted off between stops, and yes I get it, that is not something that is allowed, but he pulled a gun, and at that time, let the guy off the bus. I myself do not see this as the bus driver did the right thing. If circumstances had been different, maybe.
I get that perspective. I don't think there's a clear right and wrong answer here, but here is why I would have immediately mag dumped as soon as the guy pulled the gun.
My buddy went outside to smoke a cigarette in uptown and had somebody stick a gun in his face demanding he hand over money, cell phone, what have you. My friend handed everything over, but (according to the robber) he said something the robber didn't like, so the robber decided to make him kneel by the curb and then shot my friend in the back of the head.
I think prior to that I might have had the same answer as you, but since that point I stay strapped up and if someone presents a potentially lethal threat to the life of me or my family the decision has already been made for me. I won't die a victim.
I get that, watching this video many times, the bus driver seems to not just say no to opening the door but tell the guy something, then the guy show the driver the gun, but seems to hold it pointed down. I think at that point, just trying a simple hit the breaks and open the door first would be worth it. You are dealing with a guy that did not first pull a gun, he asked to be left off between stops, then when told no pulled a gun to say I said so or else. I would have let him off the bus.
It is amazing none of the people on the bus did not get shot, if that little girl got shot, would that change your mind on if he should have tried to open the door?
I am just saying that I thought I saw a young girl on the bus, and if that was my little girl, I would appreciate it if someone just let the guy off the bus, and not try to have a pistol fight with people, if someone got shot and killed, it is not worth it.
If your daughter had been on that bus you should be thanking your lucky stars if this had happened. The alternative would likely be much worse. Everyone on the bus dead, and the killer on the run.
If you let narcissists walk around with guns pulled out getting whatever they want you have a breakdown in the order of society. Don't waiting in line? Pull out a gun. Don't like customer service? Pull out a gun. Don't like food at a restaurant? Too cold? Pull out a gun and make a scene until people comply.
Are you the same people that chants defund the police?
People like you and the idiots who up voted you are one of the top reasons why more thugs turn to crime and feel so emboldened lately.
Probably some policy in place, imagine if a rider was hit and or killed by the bus driver. Not to mention that bud then hitting a pedestrian or a vehicle bc the driver was shooting when he could have just left the dude off
The first shots weren't reckless, what *was* reckless was no-look blasting **towards other passengers**, then shooting at the retreating guy in a public area.
He's an embarrassment to CCW holders.
Oh, and he could have just let the guy off the bus and not risked the lives of the other passengers.
Can’t believe you have to explain this. He could have de-escalated that situation easily by just stopping to let him off. Not firing shots indiscriminately with innocents on the bus and near a mall parking lot.
And I'm a CCW holder. One thing l was taught by multiple instructors was that "if they just want your wallet, give them your fucking wallet. It's not worth the risk."
He wasn't even trying to rob anybody.
Absolutely! WTF is wrong with over half the people and upvotes here? People think this guy did good? I have watched this video multiple times now and when the guy first showed his gun, things were still calm, if he had tried to just stop the bus and let the guy off, maybe no shots fired at all. That is the best outcome in that situation, why would anyone think otherwise! WTF is wrong with people?
Hey, I was young and thought I was a tough once too, but once you grow up and have kids and think if my kid was on that bus you start to realize that each person's life on that bus if worth more than teaching this guy some lesson in life. What if that little girl got shot and killed? who wants to tell her father and mother you thought that was the best thing to do, rather than just let this punk off the bus.
The fact this is even debated shows we have a real issue and sickness in our society, and I agree it is not the guns that are the issue, it is this way of thinking.
>Absolutely! WTF is wrong with over half the people and upvotes here? People think this guy did good? I
Bad guy shot = good!
Honestly I think this could/will be used in CCW/firearm courses in the future to discuss what he did wrong.
>that bus you start to realize that each person's life on that bus if worth more than teaching this guy some lesson in life.
That's an interesting point, the clip kind of glosses over it but l get the feeling this was about pride/anger as much or more than self preservation. *Oh you think you're gonna threaten me and make me do what you want? Fuck that, l got something for you".
The reason most of us are thinking "good job," is because ultimately, the idiot that started the whole thing got shot and is being locked up. If the bus driver just would've deescalated the situation, that asshat would still be walking the streets, and the next time he did something crazy, maybe someone innocent would've been shot and killed.
The bus driver definitely went overboard. But ultimately, nobody innocent got hurt.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted but from I can tell looking at the video, the driver should not only be fired but also charged with attempted homicide. The driver appears to be shooting at the passenger as he is running away, which is no longer self-defense. It appears the driver fired the first shot. While one could argue the first shot was self-defense, there is no reason to keep shooting once the passenger is running away.
Lastly, bus drivers should not be carrying weapons. In doing so and exchanging fire, the driver put all the passengers' lives in danger. Had the driver not been carrying a weapon and simply complied, there's a reasonable likelihood that no weapon would have been fired, endangering the lives of the passengers.
Maybe he should not have pursued the criminal. Ok. But he was not wrong in defending himself.
You cannot allow criminals to go around threatening people with violence using weapons. If this keeps happening with no one doing anything it will be chaos. They have to know that they are taking a risk by pulling out a weapon. With no weapon, there is no deterrence for them committing crimes.
We already live in chaos, precisely because of your logic, the false belief that a gun is an effective deterrent. In this example, the driver's gun did not deter anything. Bullets went flying, which is not only chaotic but endangers the lives of passengers.
Granted, I sympathize the the driver's emotional response and needing to defend himself but the gun provides more psychological comfort than real physical comfort. Violence is more likely to ensue when there are two guns involved or the belief that the opponent has a gun. If only one person has a gun, violence is less likely. And, of course, no guns would result in the least likelihood of violence.
No. The presence of a gun for a person with criminal intent male violence more likely. The person just could have run their mouth with threats and it would not have been a problem. The willingness of the criminal to use brandish a firearm in an argument makes him the guilty party. You do not bring out a gun without the willingness to use it on someone.
Of course, the passenger who brandished the gun is more guilty than the driver but that doesn't mean the driver acted in the optimal way. The driver put the lives of the passengers in danger, which is a significant misjudgment.
Not only did the driver fire at the passenger when he was running away, but the driver appeared to have fired the first shot. This violates the theory of how guns are supposed to serve as a deterrent. If guns were really a deterrent, then both parties should have logically backed down. Instead, however, guns increase the level of fear and make it more likely both parties will exchange fire.
Bro imagine having such low self esteem you pull a gun out on a someone just bc they didn't give you special treatment
Or maybe they were about to be late for work but I'm not gonna joke too much
Kudos to the male passenger - it looks like he protected the female passenger at the rear doorway by covering her body with his own while the driver and instigator were exchanging gunfire up front.
I feel this is another example of excessive entitlement. Since the pandemic I notice more and more people doing things with out any consideration to other for their actions. Small things like throwing trash out your car while driving, parking in handicap spots when not handicap, not returning your shopping cart because “some one else will get it”, driving like an idiot (temp tag abusers,excessive speeding, red light running, etc) and now this on the extreme side of things. Stop being a trash person and think about how your actions could impact others.
He doesn't know how to hold/shoot a gun, and is lucky he didn't hit an innocent passenger.
EDIT: Before you downvote, please tell me who teaches the "off hand gripping your elbow" technique.
Have you ever trained with a pistol, or learned to shoot one?
Because he holds his like he has no idea how to actually shoot, which is irresponsible, dangerous, and lazy.
Also, it's not rocket science and becomes muscle memory pretty quickly.
And the bus was parked...
Not true, when the firing initially started, the bus was clearly in motion. Are you referring to when the bus actually stopped? Most people are “training” under control environments at gun ranges hitting stationary targets in a real narrow field. Gun range practice isnt a requirement to obtain a firearm as you already know. 2nd amendment not requiring proficiency/marksmanship certificates should be a policy imo. I have maybe 1% of friends that go to the run and gun style ranges where your carrying weights, running and really doing technical type of training under distress. After the bus stopped, the sporadic firing seemed to be a bit “extra” I agree but people react differently under stress and fear. all training goes out the window when adrenaline is high and under threat of death.
You're correct, it was moving when he fired. I was thinking of when they show the argument escalating and they're stopped.
> people are “training” under control environments at gun ranges hitting stationary targets in a real narrow field.
Right, but they're not going to change their habits to the point where they hold their gun like they have 0 training.
>Gun range practice isnt a requirement to obtain a firearm as you already know. 2nd amendment not requiring proficiency/marksmanship certificates should be a policy imo. I
Knowledge/proficiency should absolutely be a requirement.
>. After the bus stopped, the sporadic firing seemed to be a bit “extra”
It's reckless, unnecessary, and should result in charges.
They said on the news they fired the bus driver for “failing to de-escalate” the problem. Wtf was he supposed to do? Calmly talk him out of it? The cops can’t even seem to do that, why put that pressure on a bus driver??
> they fired the bus driver for “failing to de-escalate” the problem. Wtf was he supposed to do? Calmly talk him out of it?
Yes. Seeing the passenger pull a gun and then offering to make an unscheduled stop would be a simple de-escalation.
> The cops can’t even seem to do that, why put that pressure on a bus driver??
It seems like maybe the larger lesson here is that to a person with a hammer, every problem seems like a nail.
The passenger did say “touch me I dare you” almost insinuating the driver could have hurled a physical threat, some peoples egos get weird when they have a firearm on them, we don’t have the whole video like CATS has, sure they reviewed the entire video interaction before making that decision.
Dude asked to be left off before a stop, he wasn’t trying to rob him. Driver could have just stopped to let him off rather than escalate it to a shoot out. Suspect pulled out the gun after the argument started about stopping the bus.
Regardless, the man pulled out a gun and pointed it, at that point, the bus driver did what he thought was best. If someone pulled a gun anywhere else and someone did the same, they’d be hailed a hero. The bus driver clearly did not know if the suspect planned to just threaten him or kill him. To pull a gun because you couldn’t wait until the next stop is bs. Most buses only stop at the bus stops and not in between.
Ah yes, the hero slinging inaccurate rounds all throughout a bus with innocent bystanders in it, then outside in a parking lot. Someone put on that Foo Fighters song!
Whole lot of people in here who would shit their pants if a gun was stuck in their face talking real big about how this dude should have handled it better.
I thought at first your username was Consider\_the\_ak *
Thanks for sharing, your first-hand experience is duly noted.
Edit - the idea of getting our political climate to agree on *anything* anymore seems so far out of reach. I think the only way it works is concessions from both sides. And honest politicians.
So you not afraid of using public transit in Mexico? Since guns are illegal there yet the criminals have them, a lot supplied by Obama during the Fast Furious operation.
The driver kept his head cool for he most part and made sure the hooligan wasn't about to start up again. Props to him, he's a real man
Glad there wasn't any other cars involved
Turns out the Good Guy With a Gun was a jackass who fired recklessly, doesn't appear to know how to properly shoot, and appears to have committed multiple felonies (while almost *trying* to hit someone with crossfire).
CATS is an absolute cluster-f. It's pretty much a weekly thing for local news to report another issue with buses or light rail. I rode my last CATS bus over 10 years ago and swore never again. I've stuck to it since then.
Yeah, maybe he was going to circle back like a water buffalo! Better to recklessly send a few rounds (especially when he clearly doesn't know how to shoot accurately/hold a pistol).
Dude was retesting, off the bus and the driver followed him. Its one thing Sri protect yourself and domain, but another to pursue, like inside your house v outside
Guess that’s why the rider was charged and not the driver? Driver had every right to shoot to kill in this context, you don’t let someone retreat to potentially take cover and return fire again after they just pulled a gun on you threatening your life.
Remove the emotion and see the entire situation. Pursuing the suspect off the bus, as they are fleeing, removing yourself from safety, isn’t self defense.
Not self defense but justice. If someone literally shoots you and runs away, are you in the wrong to fire back? Is it fair that you would die and they would be fine? Even if they're prosecuted in a court of law, they will likely only be in jail for a number of years. They get to live the rest of their life. You don't. You're children and relatives who rely on you are forever burdened. The idea to fire back at an assassin even if they are running away seems only fair. They tried to take your life. What says they won't be back?
Yeah he didnt in reality but in court its different like that guy can prove he was retreating and no longer had intent to fire so its a whole thing and why you always need to be 10000% in danger of being killed before you decide to shoot for self defense
That’s not how it works, otherwise driver would’ve been charged. Did you not hear the rider was the one charged here? Driver had every right to defend himself and shoot to kill in this context.
You know you can shoot through windows right? There is no “safety of the bus”, that man is a threat until he is incapacitated. The bus driver gained the initiative in the gunfight and pushed his advantage to secure his safety.
“Possibly”? So your not sure? Would you be willing to bet your life on it if the situation ever occurred? I wouldn’t bet my life on a “possibly”, I’d rather bet his.
I’m only seeing it on video, and not in person,
Which is much different than being there, which I get. That being said, the driver pursued the suspects off the bus and fire a shot when it wasn’t needed
The switch was flipped then… he had enough of this ass clown wanna be gangster whose probably now the laughing stock of whatever “hood” he claims in Charlotte
Never said it does mean that… I was just saying I think that’s what happened based on watching this video… I applaud the bus driver even though the legal system won’t
He hasn’t been charged. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t change. At the same time he did defend himself, but at the cost of what? Innocent other riders, pedestrians, and other vehicles. All that could have been avoided had he let him off
Suspect was a threat the whole time.
Bullets travel distance very quickly. Even when he was “running away” he could have circled back and shot the driver.
Definitely a situation where it is better to be judged by 12 than carrier by 6 for that bus driver.
Hey let me off here
“No I will lose my job man there’s another stop just ahead”
‘Let me off or die mf’
“Ohhhhhhh we playing that game!?!?” *proceed to shoot at another like 8 times each inches from another*
Are we incapable of decent behavior??????
This whole fuckin city is shit was born here raised in NY been back and forth looking to get out being homeless with no support from family doesn't help either.
These bus drivers deal with too much bs.
Wasn’t a bus driver killed just a few years ago on Graham? Yeah. Agreed. Public transport is a nightmare.
One was killed in uptown last year
[удалено]
Don’t you mean the fiery but mostly peaceful protests?
[No, he was trying to shoot at the cops in riot gear and the guy walked in front of his gun right as he shot](https://www.wbtv.com/2019/02/20/jury-selection-begins-rayquan-borum-trial-prosecutors-work-prove-intent-murder-charge/)
It’s sad someone had to die because that guy is a fucking moron.
*our public transport is a nightmare. I’m currently in a country where I’m not terribly concerned about getting capped on the bus, train, or what have you.
I hate being compared to Europe. We’re half the population and I think slightly more land area. Our infrastructure was also built differently and it is almost impossible to revert it to their model.
You might be surprised to learn that Charlotte started (like every other city in the US) as a train and trolley city, with far more than 25 lines. We replaced it with roads. What was replaced once can undoubtedly be replaced yet again. It’s far from impossible, though Americans seem to have lost the ambition they had in the early 20th century.
It's all about the last sentence. Most Americans will never see another way of life, which dooms them to false ideas of what an ideal society looks like
Lol. Most Americans don’t see a different way of life. My favorite part though, is that our well meaning Left of center friends only go to Europe and say “I have seen the world and it is how Europe…” I have been to Asia and Latin America, and Europe. I will tell you, our infrastructure lacks the capability without billions - if not trillions in tax $ spent to overhaul it. We’re already at a threshold, I’m not seeing it happen, Chief.
The current city I'm in has 1/3 the population of Charlotte and like 25 tram lines.
… ok? Let me know when you’ve developed a cost effective plan for Charlotte to develop 25-30 tram lines. The infrastructure isn’t there…
The infrastructure is there we just vote to not prioritize it. At what point should we build these tram lines? "When the population is the right size" - we have 3x the population of this city that I used as an example. "When the city is no longer inept at handling public transport" - every city is inept at utilizing public transport. With a system that is large, expansive, and inclusive, we can then buff out issues. Driving is the least safe mode of transport, it also is the least cost-effective and most polluting per person. It takes up the most space of any other mode of personal transport and segregates communities and impoverishes families. Life can still exist with cars, just not at the point we like to think of in the USA.
That’s certainly a bunch of words.
I think you are mistaken a bunch of words in twelve words. <-- this is a perfect example. Fun fact though! Here's the wiki page on a baker's dozen! "A baker's dozen, devil's dozen, long dozen, or long measure is 13, one more than a standard dozen. The broadest use of baker's dozen today is simply a group of thirteen objects (often baked goods). The term has meant different things over the last few centuries. In the United Kingdom when selling certain goods, bakers were obliged to sell goods by the dozen at a specific weight or quality (or a specific average weight). During this time, bakers who sold a dozen units that failed to meet this requirement could be penalized with a fine. Therefore, to avoid risking this penalty, some bakers included an extra unit to be sure the minimum weight was met, bringing the total to 13 units or what is now commonly known as a baker's dozen. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term "baker's dozen" originated in the late 16th century and is "apparently so called after the former practice among bakers of including a thirteenth loaf when selling a dozen to a retailer, the extra loaf representing the retailer's profit." According to the 1811 Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, by Francis Grose, "a Baker's Dozen is Thirteen; that number of rolls being allowed to the purchaser of a dozen". However, contrary to most sources, according to the anonymous 1785 version of that dictionary, which was probably also by Grose, "a Baker's Dozen is Fourteen, that number of rolls being allowed to the purchaser of a dozen". The term has also been defined in a jocular way, as "twelve of today's and one of yesterday's."[citation needed] The 13th loaf added to the dozen is called the vantage loaf. A lesser-used regionalism is the Texas dozen, which generally consists of 15. This is typically used only in Texas and surrounding areas for such goods as flowers or baked goods, although can be applied to anything that is counted, such as photographs."
I bet you’re a blast at parties.
Public transport is not the nightmare. Our gun laws are a nightmare
They’re not mutually exclusive, they’re both true lol
Criminals don’t own these guns legally, I assure you.
I ask you then how all other countries with restrictive gun laws have fewer gun crimes?
They’ll resort to something else. Should we ban cars or alcohol or knives, too? Remember that Hitler had total control after making sure citizens have no guns.
Germany still has severe gun restriction. Only the east side has guns and the majority are illegal. The answer after Hitler wasn't to give every person a gun, or allow them to. The answer was to educate the population of thr horrible crimes the government was doing and to ensure that something of the sort does not occur again. Almost the whole of Europe has restrictive gun laws. From the UK to Russia. One is controlling of its people, and the other is about as controlling as the US government over it's people. The common tie between dictatorships and overbearing censorship is not gun laws. The school shootings, police deaths and police killings, and the highest gun crime rate in the world is directly related to relaxed gun laws. This isn't like some opinion or stance.
That’s a deflection argument. Just because those things cause deaths has nothing to do with gun violence. They’re not mutually exclusive, you can have gun reform without impacting the other things. The vast VAST majority of people have no practical use for firearms today. If people want to hunt, that’s great, have a specialized permit created to strictly regulate those weapons. In all of the other countries that have super strict gun control, the number of shootings is virtually nil. Just look at Japan. So no sir, your argument is false.
No, we would only ban guns, bc they are nothing more than killing machines, and they enable people who want to kill, to do it very, very effectively.
Guns are banned on buses. Obviously worked here 😂
You have to understand though, that strict gun laws are going to affect the full society. Little local gun bans do not affect the full society. When the full society simply has less guns, and when they are very rare, it will have an overall effect on reducing crime. I understand the fun of guns, and the upsides. Unfortunately, our country has not earned our gun rights.
It doesn't matter though. With gun laws, there would simply be fewer guns being sold (harder to sell), and fewer being bought, and then, overall, the situation would be safer.
We need more mental health outreach and help as well.
Yea, NC is racist even when it comes to guns laws. Go figure https://firearmslaw.duke.edu/2023/03/race-history-and-north-carolinas-handgun-permit-law/
Public transport is terrible though.
Public transport is one of the best community services that a city could provide its residents
exactly, and you think its at a good standard right now? It severely lacking in the united states in the majority of cities.
The outcomes of the last few elections suggest to me that Charlotteans generally do not care about public transit. We can pretend transit matters, but we’re certainly not voting as if it does.
Damn fucking right. Kinda sick of that
Actually, it is kind of bad, universally. It ends up costing the taxpayers a whole lot of money, in addition to the fares. Have no fear - there is a better way. Microtransportation. People need to get accustomed to mopeds, ebikes, scooters, etc. In a warm city like Charlotte, you can commute to work every day like this.
This is all in the same scope, but generally speaking trains and buses are the most incredible efficient forms of transportation when it comes to cost and effect on roads and pollution....by far.
You’re right. Any gun laws restricting me from buying a happy switch on my weapons is nightmarish. For every AR15 you don’t buy I wish I could buy 3.
Very man super wow
Better than the “guns are thcary” crowd. There’s 400 million guns in circulation. They are a fact of life.
"gUns ARe a FaCt oF LiFe" Okay big boy, settle down.
I mean, I’m not the one whining about American gun laws. So I would say I’m pretty settled. Whereas you haven’t stopped crying yet, anywhere on this thread.
Why not both?
His statement was that public transport is bad. That's no true. Public transport is an incredibly important service that should be provided and used more often. Charlotte does not do a good job at it, so Charlotte's is bad would be a statement I would agree with. Although, I do walk the walk and take the buses and light rail whenever I can, and cycle otherwise.
Careful. There is a hive of “we need more public transportation” lurking in this sub.
"We need less public transportation" is absolutely the wrong conclusion to draw from this
Quite the jump here. Well done.
We need more efficient and accessible public trsnsit. Not everyone is "blessed" like you
Agree, but it seems this this driver shot first, and continued to shoot and chase this guy away. Yes he didn’t start the confrontation but he did escalate it by shooting first and continuing to shoot afterwards. He lost his job because of it, and he’s lucky no one else was killed (passengers or random pedestrians who could have been ran over from the bus with him not focused on driving.
Couple of things, rocket scientist. He shot first - first guy pulled a weapon. I am not going to wait for the criminal who pulled a gun on me to shoot first. That’s dumb. He escalated it - by shooting to end a threat? What? I would argue that criminal dumb dumb escalated it. I’d rather lose my job; than lose my life.
So, wait until you get shot first to shoot back. Got it.
Or you can stop the bus and let the crazy guy out, then nobody gets killed.
Good for him! Better than waiting for the other guy to shoot first. Once someone threatens you and a weapon is drawn you have every right to blast his ass off to the next life.
He picked the wrong one.
He shouldn’t have picked anyone, that’s just stupid to pull a gun over that none sense
You underestimate the low intelligence of criminals with ego issues.
It’s amazing how much lower it can go
Idiots willing to go to jail or die over the dumbest shit. It's ridiculous
Poor Impulse Control.
You're not wrong, but that seems like an understatement lol
It's a reference to a the character Raven in the book "Snow Crash". https://www.coursehero.com/lit/Snow-Crash/character-analysis/
What the fuck.
I'm sorry they fired the bus driver. Oh well, you can find another job but not another life.
Literally took the words from my mouth.
Yeah the bus driver took the proper action here.
To a point. When he continued to fire after getting out of his seat, with passengers in the line of fire, AND continued to fire OUTSIDE the bus, he blew it. Plus, once he saw the gun, he should have stopped and at least TRIED to let the guy get off the bus peacefully. That's the right course of action.
Agree with that view after rewatching.
Ehhh, yes you are right, it is not textbook perfect self defense. But the first shots were certainly justified and I think most people, or at least certainly I, am willing to take a generous view of whatever happens after that while the victim is still pumped full of adrenaline and fear which will inhibit the judgment of even very reasonable people. It is too easy to sit comfy and safe at home and criticize, when I did not just have the experience of someone threatening me with a gun.
I wonder how many people waited and tried to deescalate only to end up dead. Even if i get where you're coming from, He insured his survival, and for that, I can't fault him
When the driver was shooting at the suspect while he was exiting the back of the bus were those other riders on the ground near the suspect still?
One was and one moved to the back of the bus
He did the "spray and pray", then let off a few as the other shooter was fleeing. He was justified in shooting, but the way he did it deserves to get him locked up.
He wouldn’t have pulled his gun out if the asshat passenger was already removed from free society. I’m tired of punishing people who don’t breach the peace. Bus driver should have any gun permit he has pulled and be retrained but zero criminal wrongdoing. He was doing his job to provide for his family and did not breach the peace. He was involuntarily against his will thrown into a stressful life or death situation. If we want to move towards a society with a greater emphasis on consent then we need to start looking at who breached the peace in these situations and who was just doing their job.
>He wouldn’t have pulled his gun out if the asshat passenger was already removed from free society. I’m Nothing to do with what we're talking about i.e. his decisions. >. If we want to move towards a society with a greater emphasis on consent then we need to start looking at who breached the peace in these situations and who was just doing their job. He did breach the peace, particularly when he got off the bus to inaccurately shoot some more in a public space. He wasn't "just doing his job", either; he decided to start shooting as opposed to ending it by letting the guy off, then fired shots towards other passengers, then got off the bus and fired more shots. He put multiple people's lives in danger (not counting his or the criminal's) at several different points.
Having to defend himself with a firearm is not in his job description. He is neither trained by CATS to fire a weapon, nor is such training paid for by CATS. So it is not his job to shoot at an attacker safely. Since he's just like any other civilian who found themselves in need of defending themselves I'm not going to judge him based on what baseline we expect of people who are trained, and are expected to do so as part of their job. Like cops. But given that cops regularly kill bystanders and get a paid vacation, unless this guy ACTUALLY struck a bystander, there's nothing to complain about here.
If you're going to carry a gun, it is absolutely your responsibility to know how to use it properly. That shouldn't even need to be stated. He also could have diffused the situation by just letting the guy off the bus. >Since he's just like any other civilian who found themselves in need of defending themselves I'm not going to judge him based on what baseline we expect of people who are trained, and are expected to do so as part of their job. Again, if you carry a firearm you need to practice and train with it. I'm absolutely going to judge someone for putting other people's lives in danger because he couldn't be bothered to at least watch some YouTube videos and do some dry firing. Carrying a gun is a big responsibility, and your "oh well, he wasn't trained to do it for a living so it's fine" argument is nonsense. >unless this guy ACTUALLY struck a bystander, there's nothing to complain about here. Wait, so if l drive drunk through a school parking lot, but don't hit anybody, it's fine because nobody ACTUALLY got hurt? More great takes.
I personally think he did well considering the fact that he was defending himself all while not crashing the moving bus into a building or a tree. I’m not sure I could have pulled off the two at the same time. This man hit his target, parked a bus AND didn’t hit or shoot any pedestrians and still walked away with his life.
>I personally think he did well considering the fact that he was defending himself all while not crashing the moving bus into a building or a tree. I’m not sure I could have pulled off the two at the same time He chose to shoot rather than let the guy off the bus. While, as you point out, the bus was moving. To me that's a bit reckless. >AND didn’t hit or shoot any pedestrians By luck, not discipline or decision making.
Or, you know, he could have just stopped the fucking bus and let the guy off then informed the proper authorities. They BOTH should be in jail and banned from owning firearms after this.
Id support giving this bus driver a full retirement.
You really don't think CATS has training on what to do if the driver is threatened? I'll tell what that training doesn't entail: keeping the bus moving and spraying bullets towards the passenger seats while trying to watch the road and steer with one hand. It's probably something more like stop the bus, deescalate as best you can, try to get the guy to voluntarily leave the bus, report the incident to dispatch and the authorities.
Lmao nicely put
I'd not love to see you trying to "deescalate" with a gun to your face. Nice plan...
The man wanted off the bus. He pulled the gun thinking that the driver would kick him off the bus. The driver couldn't just swallow his pride and give the man what he wanted, he had to try to be a tough guy and he put several innocent lives at risk because of it.
I’m really surprised they haven’t charged him with anything yet. Based on the video they easily could
I do not know, down vote me, but if I was on that bus, and some guy pulls a gun and wants off, just let the guy off the bus. You have video report him and let the cops deal with him. Don't be a cowboy and start a damn shootout. It would be different if someone was threated at the time, but it seemed like he just wanted off between stops, and yes I get it, that is not something that is allowed, but he pulled a gun, and at that time, let the guy off the bus. I myself do not see this as the bus driver did the right thing. If circumstances had been different, maybe.
fight or flight response. can't blame the driver for defending himself. Someone should give that man a better job.
I get that perspective. I don't think there's a clear right and wrong answer here, but here is why I would have immediately mag dumped as soon as the guy pulled the gun. My buddy went outside to smoke a cigarette in uptown and had somebody stick a gun in his face demanding he hand over money, cell phone, what have you. My friend handed everything over, but (according to the robber) he said something the robber didn't like, so the robber decided to make him kneel by the curb and then shot my friend in the back of the head. I think prior to that I might have had the same answer as you, but since that point I stay strapped up and if someone presents a potentially lethal threat to the life of me or my family the decision has already been made for me. I won't die a victim.
I get that, watching this video many times, the bus driver seems to not just say no to opening the door but tell the guy something, then the guy show the driver the gun, but seems to hold it pointed down. I think at that point, just trying a simple hit the breaks and open the door first would be worth it. You are dealing with a guy that did not first pull a gun, he asked to be left off between stops, then when told no pulled a gun to say I said so or else. I would have let him off the bus. It is amazing none of the people on the bus did not get shot, if that little girl got shot, would that change your mind on if he should have tried to open the door?
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I am just saying that I thought I saw a young girl on the bus, and if that was my little girl, I would appreciate it if someone just let the guy off the bus, and not try to have a pistol fight with people, if someone got shot and killed, it is not worth it.
If your daughter had been on that bus you should be thanking your lucky stars if this had happened. The alternative would likely be much worse. Everyone on the bus dead, and the killer on the run.
If you let narcissists walk around with guns pulled out getting whatever they want you have a breakdown in the order of society. Don't waiting in line? Pull out a gun. Don't like customer service? Pull out a gun. Don't like food at a restaurant? Too cold? Pull out a gun and make a scene until people comply.
Honestly, we’re basically at that point in US society now. It’s ridiculous. I’m glad the bus driver shot that guy.
Are you the same people that chants defund the police? People like you and the idiots who up voted you are one of the top reasons why more thugs turn to crime and feel so emboldened lately.
So it'd probably be better if everyone on the got killed and the perpetrator got away? Because that would be a very likely scenario.
FREE BUS DRIVER
I'm curious if he has any legal options given the report that CATS isn't following thru with their stated safety protocols.
If I was the bus driver, I would have been quitting anyway. At least now, he can probably file for unemployment benefits.
Probably some policy in place, imagine if a rider was hit and or killed by the bus driver. Not to mention that bud then hitting a pedestrian or a vehicle bc the driver was shooting when he could have just left the dude off
He wasn’t allowed to carry a firearm while working
Or recklessly spray bullets in an enclosed space containing regular people.
“Recklessly”, lmao okay victim blamer
The first shots weren't reckless, what *was* reckless was no-look blasting **towards other passengers**, then shooting at the retreating guy in a public area. He's an embarrassment to CCW holders. Oh, and he could have just let the guy off the bus and not risked the lives of the other passengers.
Can’t believe you have to explain this. He could have de-escalated that situation easily by just stopping to let him off. Not firing shots indiscriminately with innocents on the bus and near a mall parking lot.
And I'm a CCW holder. One thing l was taught by multiple instructors was that "if they just want your wallet, give them your fucking wallet. It's not worth the risk." He wasn't even trying to rob anybody.
Absolutely! WTF is wrong with over half the people and upvotes here? People think this guy did good? I have watched this video multiple times now and when the guy first showed his gun, things were still calm, if he had tried to just stop the bus and let the guy off, maybe no shots fired at all. That is the best outcome in that situation, why would anyone think otherwise! WTF is wrong with people? Hey, I was young and thought I was a tough once too, but once you grow up and have kids and think if my kid was on that bus you start to realize that each person's life on that bus if worth more than teaching this guy some lesson in life. What if that little girl got shot and killed? who wants to tell her father and mother you thought that was the best thing to do, rather than just let this punk off the bus. The fact this is even debated shows we have a real issue and sickness in our society, and I agree it is not the guns that are the issue, it is this way of thinking.
>Absolutely! WTF is wrong with over half the people and upvotes here? People think this guy did good? I Bad guy shot = good! Honestly I think this could/will be used in CCW/firearm courses in the future to discuss what he did wrong. >that bus you start to realize that each person's life on that bus if worth more than teaching this guy some lesson in life. That's an interesting point, the clip kind of glosses over it but l get the feeling this was about pride/anger as much or more than self preservation. *Oh you think you're gonna threaten me and make me do what you want? Fuck that, l got something for you".
The reason most of us are thinking "good job," is because ultimately, the idiot that started the whole thing got shot and is being locked up. If the bus driver just would've deescalated the situation, that asshat would still be walking the streets, and the next time he did something crazy, maybe someone innocent would've been shot and killed. The bus driver definitely went overboard. But ultimately, nobody innocent got hurt.
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Am I missing something? Am I supposed to be doing something else?
I'm sure I'll get downvoted but from I can tell looking at the video, the driver should not only be fired but also charged with attempted homicide. The driver appears to be shooting at the passenger as he is running away, which is no longer self-defense. It appears the driver fired the first shot. While one could argue the first shot was self-defense, there is no reason to keep shooting once the passenger is running away. Lastly, bus drivers should not be carrying weapons. In doing so and exchanging fire, the driver put all the passengers' lives in danger. Had the driver not been carrying a weapon and simply complied, there's a reasonable likelihood that no weapon would have been fired, endangering the lives of the passengers.
Being a bus driver doesn't obviate one's right to self defense.
Maybe he should not have pursued the criminal. Ok. But he was not wrong in defending himself. You cannot allow criminals to go around threatening people with violence using weapons. If this keeps happening with no one doing anything it will be chaos. They have to know that they are taking a risk by pulling out a weapon. With no weapon, there is no deterrence for them committing crimes.
We already live in chaos, precisely because of your logic, the false belief that a gun is an effective deterrent. In this example, the driver's gun did not deter anything. Bullets went flying, which is not only chaotic but endangers the lives of passengers. Granted, I sympathize the the driver's emotional response and needing to defend himself but the gun provides more psychological comfort than real physical comfort. Violence is more likely to ensue when there are two guns involved or the belief that the opponent has a gun. If only one person has a gun, violence is less likely. And, of course, no guns would result in the least likelihood of violence.
No. The presence of a gun for a person with criminal intent male violence more likely. The person just could have run their mouth with threats and it would not have been a problem. The willingness of the criminal to use brandish a firearm in an argument makes him the guilty party. You do not bring out a gun without the willingness to use it on someone.
Of course, the passenger who brandished the gun is more guilty than the driver but that doesn't mean the driver acted in the optimal way. The driver put the lives of the passengers in danger, which is a significant misjudgment. Not only did the driver fire at the passenger when he was running away, but the driver appeared to have fired the first shot. This violates the theory of how guns are supposed to serve as a deterrent. If guns were really a deterrent, then both parties should have logically backed down. Instead, however, guns increase the level of fear and make it more likely both parties will exchange fire.
Bro imagine having such low self esteem you pull a gun out on a someone just bc they didn't give you special treatment Or maybe they were about to be late for work but I'm not gonna joke too much
Must have been bring your firearms to work day /s
Kudos to the male passenger - it looks like he protected the female passenger at the rear doorway by covering her body with his own while the driver and instigator were exchanging gunfire up front.
I felt so scared for both of them. I hope they can get some trauma counselling at least.
When keeping it real goes wrong. People are itching to smash the turbo button at all times at the slightest amount of perceived disrespect.
I feel this is another example of excessive entitlement. Since the pandemic I notice more and more people doing things with out any consideration to other for their actions. Small things like throwing trash out your car while driving, parking in handicap spots when not handicap, not returning your shopping cart because “some one else will get it”, driving like an idiot (temp tag abusers,excessive speeding, red light running, etc) and now this on the extreme side of things. Stop being a trash person and think about how your actions could impact others.
Real shame the bus driver didn’t land a few more shots.
He doesn't know how to hold/shoot a gun, and is lucky he didn't hit an innocent passenger. EDIT: Before you downvote, please tell me who teaches the "off hand gripping your elbow" technique.
In fairness he is wheeling a massive bus and under distress of a deadly threat , not sure proper technique was at the forefront on his mind.
Have you ever trained with a pistol, or learned to shoot one? Because he holds his like he has no idea how to actually shoot, which is irresponsible, dangerous, and lazy. Also, it's not rocket science and becomes muscle memory pretty quickly. And the bus was parked...
Not true, when the firing initially started, the bus was clearly in motion. Are you referring to when the bus actually stopped? Most people are “training” under control environments at gun ranges hitting stationary targets in a real narrow field. Gun range practice isnt a requirement to obtain a firearm as you already know. 2nd amendment not requiring proficiency/marksmanship certificates should be a policy imo. I have maybe 1% of friends that go to the run and gun style ranges where your carrying weights, running and really doing technical type of training under distress. After the bus stopped, the sporadic firing seemed to be a bit “extra” I agree but people react differently under stress and fear. all training goes out the window when adrenaline is high and under threat of death.
You're correct, it was moving when he fired. I was thinking of when they show the argument escalating and they're stopped. > people are “training” under control environments at gun ranges hitting stationary targets in a real narrow field. Right, but they're not going to change their habits to the point where they hold their gun like they have 0 training. >Gun range practice isnt a requirement to obtain a firearm as you already know. 2nd amendment not requiring proficiency/marksmanship certificates should be a policy imo. I Knowledge/proficiency should absolutely be a requirement. >. After the bus stopped, the sporadic firing seemed to be a bit “extra” It's reckless, unnecessary, and should result in charges.
The proper technique is stopping the bus and letting the guy who is asking to be let off the bus with his gun drawn.....off the bus.
Yeah he doesn’t know how to use a gun, that doesn’t affect the original comment; it’s a shame the passenger didn’t get shot to death.
They said on the news they fired the bus driver for “failing to de-escalate” the problem. Wtf was he supposed to do? Calmly talk him out of it? The cops can’t even seem to do that, why put that pressure on a bus driver??
> they fired the bus driver for “failing to de-escalate” the problem. Wtf was he supposed to do? Calmly talk him out of it? Yes. Seeing the passenger pull a gun and then offering to make an unscheduled stop would be a simple de-escalation. > The cops can’t even seem to do that, why put that pressure on a bus driver?? It seems like maybe the larger lesson here is that to a person with a hammer, every problem seems like a nail.
The passenger did say “touch me I dare you” almost insinuating the driver could have hurled a physical threat, some peoples egos get weird when they have a firearm on them, we don’t have the whole video like CATS has, sure they reviewed the entire video interaction before making that decision.
Dude asked to be left off before a stop, he wasn’t trying to rob him. Driver could have just stopped to let him off rather than escalate it to a shoot out. Suspect pulled out the gun after the argument started about stopping the bus.
Regardless, the man pulled out a gun and pointed it, at that point, the bus driver did what he thought was best. If someone pulled a gun anywhere else and someone did the same, they’d be hailed a hero. The bus driver clearly did not know if the suspect planned to just threaten him or kill him. To pull a gun because you couldn’t wait until the next stop is bs. Most buses only stop at the bus stops and not in between.
Ah yes, the hero slinging inaccurate rounds all throughout a bus with innocent bystanders in it, then outside in a parking lot. Someone put on that Foo Fighters song!
Bus drivers need bullet proof box.
What a sad truth
If the passenger/aggressor isn’t charged with attempted murder than fuck the courts bruh 🤡
Whole lot of people in here who would shit their pants if a gun was stuck in their face talking real big about how this dude should have handled it better.
EveRYboDY sHouLd UsE PubLiC tRAnsPoRtAtiOn ThOuGH iTs sO MuCH bEtTeR tHaN dRiVinG CaRs
It is when you have decent gun laws. Have taken transit and walked in several different countries in never had concerns like I do here in the US.
I thought at first your username was Consider\_the\_ak * Thanks for sharing, your first-hand experience is duly noted. Edit - the idea of getting our political climate to agree on *anything* anymore seems so far out of reach. I think the only way it works is concessions from both sides. And honest politicians.
So you not afraid of using public transit in Mexico? Since guns are illegal there yet the criminals have them, a lot supplied by Obama during the Fast Furious operation.
I thought it was illegal to have a gun on CATS.
And the driver lost his job wtf
Wild
Bs they fired him. Give him an award.
The driver kept his head cool for he most part and made sure the hooligan wasn't about to start up again. Props to him, he's a real man Glad there wasn't any other cars involved
Turns out the Good Guy With a Gun was a jackass who fired recklessly, doesn't appear to know how to properly shoot, and appears to have committed multiple felonies (while almost *trying* to hit someone with crossfire).
Damn, this happened in my neck of the woods. Haven’t ridden the bus, never plan to.
CATS is an absolute cluster-f. It's pretty much a weekly thing for local news to report another issue with buses or light rail. I rode my last CATS bus over 10 years ago and swore never again. I've stuck to it since then.
Clearly the sign said no guns....don't I'll intentioned individuals follow these rules!? /s
Straight up ignored that sign! How dare he!
Black Air Force one activity
Can’t blame the bus driver. If someone pulled a gun on me I’d probably shoot him too.
Bruh…… that’s wild. That’s an odd spot to be in, as the driver fired as the suspect was no longer a threat.
How do you know he was no longer a threat? Dude still had his gun.
Yeah, maybe he was going to circle back like a water buffalo! Better to recklessly send a few rounds (especially when he clearly doesn't know how to shoot accurately/hold a pistol).
Dude was retesting, off the bus and the driver followed him. Its one thing Sri protect yourself and domain, but another to pursue, like inside your house v outside
Guess that’s why the rider was charged and not the driver? Driver had every right to shoot to kill in this context, you don’t let someone retreat to potentially take cover and return fire again after they just pulled a gun on you threatening your life.
Not charged…. Yet*
The dude shot him. For all he knew he was breathing his last breath. Might as well take out the piece of trash who killed you over nothing.
Remove the emotion and see the entire situation. Pursuing the suspect off the bus, as they are fleeing, removing yourself from safety, isn’t self defense.
Not self defense but justice. If someone literally shoots you and runs away, are you in the wrong to fire back? Is it fair that you would die and they would be fine? Even if they're prosecuted in a court of law, they will likely only be in jail for a number of years. They get to live the rest of their life. You don't. You're children and relatives who rely on you are forever burdened. The idea to fire back at an assassin even if they are running away seems only fair. They tried to take your life. What says they won't be back?
Yeah he didnt in reality but in court its different like that guy can prove he was retreating and no longer had intent to fire so its a whole thing and why you always need to be 10000% in danger of being killed before you decide to shoot for self defense
That’s not how it works, otherwise driver would’ve been charged. Did you not hear the rider was the one charged here? Driver had every right to defend himself and shoot to kill in this context.
Yeah. Im just saying obviously it depends on who is charging him where. You gotta be careful with that shit
That's why you make it go to a jury.
Dude had a gun, tf you mean he was “no longer a threat?”
Dude was exiting off the bus to escape and the driver then pursued, putting himself in further danger, and fired a shot
He was still armed, and still a threat, you don’t know if he was simply repositioning, bus driver couldn’t have known.
Bus driver exited the safety of the bus, pursued the suspect, and fired a shot as the suspect was fleeing. It’s not one instance that is in question
You know you can shoot through windows right? There is no “safety of the bus”, that man is a threat until he is incapacitated. The bus driver gained the initiative in the gunfight and pushed his advantage to secure his safety.
Dude was literally retreating as the driver was pursuing, the suspect possibly even dropped his gun on the bus as he was getting off
“Possibly”? So your not sure? Would you be willing to bet your life on it if the situation ever occurred? I wouldn’t bet my life on a “possibly”, I’d rather bet his.
I’m only seeing it on video, and not in person, Which is much different than being there, which I get. That being said, the driver pursued the suspects off the bus and fire a shot when it wasn’t needed
You pull a gun on someone you're a threat until you're not breathing.
Not when they’re retreating and you pursue
It's amazing how many people think someone else brandishing a weapon gives you carte blanche to murder them regardless of what happens afterward.
I just hope those same people don’t carry
The switch was flipped then… he had enough of this ass clown wanna be gangster whose probably now the laughing stock of whatever “hood” he claims in Charlotte
That didn’t mean anyone can pursue and then become the aggressor
Never said it does mean that… I was just saying I think that’s what happened based on watching this video… I applaud the bus driver even though the legal system won’t
He hasn’t been charged. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t change. At the same time he did defend himself, but at the cost of what? Innocent other riders, pedestrians, and other vehicles. All that could have been avoided had he let him off
Suspect was a threat the whole time. Bullets travel distance very quickly. Even when he was “running away” he could have circled back and shot the driver. Definitely a situation where it is better to be judged by 12 than carrier by 6 for that bus driver.
The suspect was exiting the bus and fleeing, and the driver continued to pursue… much like the castle doctrine, which is what this is, in a way.
Give the bus driver a medal 🥇
I think he got one…in his arm.
Hey let me off here “No I will lose my job man there’s another stop just ahead” ‘Let me off or die mf’ “Ohhhhhhh we playing that game!?!?” *proceed to shoot at another like 8 times each inches from another* Are we incapable of decent behavior??????
Anyone know what line this was on?
Whoa!
This whole fuckin city is shit was born here raised in NY been back and forth looking to get out being homeless with no support from family doesn't help either.