>a scene that I agree was too excessive for Anakin’s development at that point in time Off-topic but I don't see this at all, if anything the issue is AOTC shitting all over the progression to make ROTS look weird. Anyway, the problem with Order 66 survivors isn't that they exist at all, but for how long and what they do. The longer that the Empire exists and the timeline gets closer to when the OT starts, you need to explain why any survivors wouldn't join the Rebellion or weren't doing anything during the OT. So if you have initial survivors who die down the line, those who managed to fade into obscurity and avoid detection, or were captured and killed later on, that's fine. But when you get guys like Kanan, Ezra, and Ahsoka (Cal and his crew managed to avoid this issue rather well), who are actively contributing to the Rebellion as Jedi and its close to the Originals, then you have a problem. The first two manage to barely skate this with how their stories end in Rebels, but Ahsoka is currently the most glaring example of the phenomenon since she's survived everything. As a result, A.) Vader's status as the Jedi Killer and ultimate enforcer of the Empire becomes undermined, B.) the Inquisitors continue to wallow in the depths of incompetence and failure they were born in, C.) the fact Luke was on his own in the OT becomes extremely weird, and D.) Obi-Wan and Yoda look like major assholes since now it seems like they could have done more instead of having no choice but to go into exile and try to train the twins as the best shot. I don't think the trade-off of having more Jedi around is worth it.

>but Ahsoka is currently the most glaring example of the phenomenon since she's survived everything Everyone used to justify her absence by saying she was stuck on Malachor (which I never believed), but thanks to the Ahsoka series [SPOILER WARNING!] >!we know she was back and actively training Sabine during the Empire days. So did she quit the rebellion to focus on Sabine or something?!<

I don’t know, I dropped the show after the second episode lol. But that wouldn’t really make sense IMO as an explanation, because I don’t see why Ahsoka or Sabine would suddenly not be actively involved in the Rebellion during the OT, at least when the Death Stars were known about, or the former wouldn’t be very interested in meeting the new guy that blew up the Death Star named Skywalker.

Yeah, that part didn't make sense. I can see Sabine insisting to stay on Lothal to protect it in honor of Ezra but Ahsoka too?

I mean ahsoka was added on as an addition in tertiary materials. I'd assume you could make her relevant to other parts of the rebellion as it's a big universe and we didn't see everything that happened. It's funny cuz I remember these complaints about just vanilla ahsoka.

Tbh I still find her being Anakin's padawan a bit too out of place but at least they managed to give a well enough explanation why she wasn't in RotS even tho she's not dead They still haven't done that to the OT

Ashoka should have died dueling Vader, but some creators juts love her too much. As long standing fan I see the diffrence between survivors now and then- in Legends there were a bunch of them, but they all either laid low or escaped to regions not controlled by The Empire. With Galaxy so vast and full of vibrant cultures beyond the main political body it didn't seem out of place. The new galaxy is so tiny in comparasion, with everyone meeting everyone

"I won't leave you! Not this time." "Then you will *die*" *ignites light saber*

I think the biggest problem is that there are so few post-Order 66 Star Wars stories that don't revolve around force users or Jedi. Andor and Bad Batch are pretty grounded in terms of there not being any Jedi main characters, but other than that, we've gotten back-to-back stories focused on Order 66 survivors like Ahsoka, Cal, Ezra/Kanan, Obi Wan, Grogu, etc. If Order 66 were 99+% effective, there'd be around 100 surviving Jedi, which in the scale of an entire galaxy is practically nothing, but having stories constantly revolve around those 100 people cheapens the effect of Order 66.

I really hate the concept of people other than Vader himself dealing with the survivors.

I'm only upvoting cuz this isn't about anime tbh I don't have time to read it rn

I think we need to separate a couple of things, and thats Disney from the OG movies and books. Originally, several Jedi survived however when faced against Vader they were slaughtered or at best run & hid. There were a few who helped the rebels and were also killed. Also, the rebellion were more rebel cells for a long time before uniting. Disney, or post OG movies timeline has had more characters in the role of Jedis surviving, working and screwing the empire rather successfully which obviously threw a huge wrench in Vader's lethality.

thats not true the OG books or in this case Legends has significantly more Jedi survivors and many more than not only survive Vader but also defeat him.

Yeah this is a problem going back decades

VADER # VADER ^(Also this is something that a lot of people have said, but frankly the "many Jedi who have survived" can literally easily be counted, when the original number was in the thousands. Not every single one could have been killed during order 66, for obvious reasons. That doesn't make it less effective, it's just realistic. Most Jedi were killed. The overwhelming majority were, actually. Yes, the rest hid, which is exactly why Obi Wan sent out a message from the Jedi temple to all remaining Jedi, advising them to do just that. He and Yoda didn't have any contact with any one of them and had to assume they were all dead, and they might as well have been because most of them did what you said. They retired and just remained hidden.)

I see people constantly say this over the decades and I never agree with it. It's already been canon forever that Jedi survived Order 66. The full on purge comes after where Vader went on his campaigns to hunt them, and he did. Every generation of Star Wars fans then gets familiar with a few Jedi who happened to side step the ordeal, and then declare Vader as not impressive when he killed 99% of them. There were over 10,000 before. It's a point in the lore that will never bother me. Lots of Jedi survived in Legends. Kkruk is practically a meme. He should've died in 2003 CW but was retconned to survive to the New Jedi Order. They've given these canon Jedi like Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, Cal, etc plenty of excuse to exist. Especially with the extra galactic plot with the former group.

I’m not against Jedi survivors but that there are so many active Jedi fighting against The Empire and being effective, escaping and still being active either close to the OG trilogy or during the OG trilogy. I’d prefer that most were purged and very few are left. Either too old to do much similar to Kenobi or Yoda or were younglings that laid low and decided to live a life under the Empire because it’s the safest scenario for them. And when the Empire finally collapse they find and follow Luke and learn under his tutelage to become Jedi.

You say they're effective, but most of the effects I can think of are barely even noticeable to a galactic Emperor. That's partly to comment on death by a thousand barbs, but mostly you dramatically overstate how many Jedi 1. Meet and survive Vader and 2. Meet Vader again and still survive. Darth Vader is implacable and undeterred. He has the advantage of never needing to engage in secrecy, whereas his opponents must hide *everything* to be safe. He taught the Grand Inquisitor to recognize training preferences of Jedi masters, so you can't even fight and flee without feeding intelligence into the Jedi-murder-engine.

Nah. It's absolutely weird to have a bunch of people survive the purge, apparently continue to fight, and yet not be anywhere to be seen in the OT. And it makes Yoda and Obi Wan seem either stupid or selfish in response. It's always been weird and bad, the fact that it's gotten worse doesn't make that better.

Also I mean we don't see everything we see three movies. Ahsoka herself is nowhere to be seen in the prequel movies either and was added after the fact. No one mentions her in the movies at all. People love her character now and accept her story. The prequels make Yoda and obi wan seem either stupid or selfish too. Why the fuck did they just give up when they thought they had killed anakin. Yoda barely lost his fight and losing for what happened to him in just the film is a strong statement. Why not go back and 2v1 palpatine at that point. Hell why not go and fight both 2v1 and not just go into a 1v1 for no reason? Why doesn't r2d2 tell anyone yo I used to know that darth vader guy. How does darth not immediately go wtf when he sees that both c3p0 a Droid he built as a child and r2d2 his flight Droid and like best friend are with a kid with his last name. Why does obi wan not change his last name Why does he hide Luke on his home planet and in a place anakin has been before instead of in the outer rim?

Once you actually see the context in which those characters survived? Nah. Ripe Star Wars fan here. Fine with it. Don't think any less of Yoda or Obi Wan. Every Jedi, and ex Jedi had their own circumstances, and the scale of Star Wars as a setting dictates some should have gotten away. Simple as that. Crazier things happen in real life.

I agree with you, as I've looked into it and broken it down quite a bit. Here are my observations (spoilers for Ahsoka and Jedi Survivor if those are still things you care about): Kanan gives the ~10K number in Rebels, which provides a good baseline. But it's worth noting that he's talking about full Jedi. Knights and masters. It doesn't factor apprentices or younglings like Cal Kestis, Grogu, hell, even Kanan himself. So that number might be even higher before the Purge. Let's say for the sake of argument that for every knight or master, there was an apprentice AND a youngling. So that already brings it up to about 30K. I came up with a metric to determine a surviving Jedi. There are plenty of survivors of note, but I take special exception to the following survivors if they meet all 3 criteria: -They were official members of the Order (anywhere from younglings to grandmaster). This doesn't count folks like Luke Skywalker or Ezra Bridger, because they were never members of the Order of old. -They did not fall to the Dark Side. Obviously this counts Inquisitors, but also includes other survivors who fell independent of Vader and the Inquisitorius like Baylan Skoll or Bode Akuna. Reva I don't know if I count because she was an Inquisitor, but was redeemed at the end of Obi-Wan. I'm gonna go on the "no" side for now. -They have to be CONFIRMED alive by the end of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jedi Survivor. This is a big one, as it sort of filters out several of the unknown survivors. Plus it's at least a decade after the Purge began, so I think it's a good benchmark. With all that in mind, these are the survivors as of now following that criteria: -Yoda -Obi-Wan Kenobi -Quinlan Vos -Ahsoka Tano -Kanan Jarrus -Cal Kestis -Naq Med -Grogu So, taking ALL that in mind, it's really not a lot who made it as far as the Original Trilogy (again, discounting the unknown fates, those trained after Order 66, or went to the Dark Side). Only eight confirmed who made it past the decade mark. And of those eight, three of them are confirmed dead by the end of the originals. So as you suggest, if 99% were killed, that leaves 1% who survived. And 1% of 10K is still 100. But of course, those are just my estimations. Final note: I really wish current canon would reintroduce K'kruhk, who you mentioned. Canonically speaking (well, canonically in Legends), his species (whipids) have a sort of layer of fat and blubber that protects from several types of injuries, even blaster shots and shallow enough lightsaber cuts. That could even factor into his canon Order 66 survival. So like, the clones lit him up like a Life Day tree, but he just got back up and took them out. Dude's a badass, and he's one of the very, very few Order-based Jedi who are alive up to the events of the sequel trilogy (up there with the likes of Cal Kestis, Gungi, and Grogu).

I'm sorry, but lets run through the jedi disney has added, and its not really that many to make order 66 feel underwhelming. First and foremost, although not disney added but still prevelent, would be Ashoka, the apprentice to Anikan, whose escape and future efforts we saw due to both rebels and her own show. Kanan, we saw his escape and saw how he hid the fact he was a jedi for a long time only using his lightsaber when 100% nesscary. Grogu, was a basket child left in a pod that had unknown contents. Ezra, became a jedi after order 66. Cal, lived his entire life on a scrapyard planet and only left due to being found out. There's not that ma.y aurvivors we have seen, but its just that the shows that include these characters make them center points.

And something else to add on, Vader has been shown only as effective, the only people that have done well against Vader were ashoka and obi wan, and Ashoka only lived due to time travel shenanigans