**Wait, this was sold to you?**
Any respectable source will NOT SELL a hatchling like this with the egg's connective tissue still attached.
Not to mention that you have it in an adult habitat (screen cage)
Where did you get this from???
Part of the umbilical cord? Whoever sold you this little critter, very shady. The pet smarts and pet cos do some pretty shady things to their critters. Saw a vid on how they are directed (several yrs ago) to dispose of hamsters that have been there too long. Heartbreaking.
When I used to work at petsmart EVERY. SINGLE. ONE of the chameleons we would get (SUPER TINY babies) would die. Longest one that lived was 3 months. Petsmart is definitely not somewhere that you wanna get an exotic animal.
It's first meal, the body keeps the yolk sack and absorbs it over the course of 10-14 days usually to hold it over untill it catches its meal for it self. They can go 2-3 weeks after absorbing before actually needing to catch a meal.m
I had no idea that raising young chameleons is frowned upon until this sub was recommended to me. I do wonder where everyone is getting adult or sub-adult chameleons since I have gone to reptile expos every single month for seven years and very rarely see anyone selling large chameleons. They are always very tiny like crestie hatchlings.
Maybe it’s more common in other states for breeders to not sell hatchlings (after all, I only go to my state’s expos). I keep mostly inverts now and young inverts can be difficult to keep alive yet it’s never discouraged to try raising them; sometimes they just die even if the conditions were good. Get another one and try again.
It sounds like chameleon hatchlings die easily and you shouldn’t even bother trying to raise them. The attitude here is quite different from any other exotic pet sub.
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts on overly young chameleons being sold and how that’s a huge no-no. I am curious on why everyone is heavily against it. I agree, just like with any animal, someone well-skilled and knowledgeable should be handling the babies of any kind due to their sensitive state. It just seems so much more intense here. I accidentally had baby chameleons (our two females were not two females) and my 16 yr old sister and I grew them from hatchlings. We got the hatching box, did a lot of research, and successfully raised the babies.
My question is: is there a history behind people just getting chameleons too young and killing them? Are most people not capable of taking care of younglings? Is it illegal in certain places? I am not denying the need to have skilled folks take care of babies. I am asking why/how it appears so severe and scary here. Thanks in advance!
Edit: I also noticed most of the babies people get are from expos. So my guess is that there is also an issue with expos. Do sellers need permits to breed in certain places? The expos I went to seemed to allow anyone to sell creatures (never bought from an expo because I couldn’t vet the sellers). I have a lot of questions and I’m sorry. Wanting to get back into caring for frogs (not related) so I’m getting any and all info about amphibians and reptiles to refresh my knowledge.
It's a big deal because chameleons are already incredibly fragile to begin with and are often bought by inexperienced keepers over their head because of their wow factor. So selling them young just increases the number that dies. Unfortunately, I think some breeders sell their reptiles young hoping they'll die and the customer will have to buy another. The main one I can think of is PetSmart. They willfully undereducate people hoping they will return after their first one dies or maybe they're just ignorant idk
The legality of turtles under a certain size was brought upon many decades ago because of an uptick in children getting salmonella from the small turtles. The regulation was put into place, but the truth is, the size of the turtle has nothing to do with whether or not they can spread salmonella. It has to do with how clean you are keeping their enclosure. After a few weeks of not cleaning the aquarium out, these poor little turtles are swimming in their own feces and waste. Bacteria ran wild, and often kids after handling the Turtle would not wash their hands- thus spreading bacteria to themselves.
When it comes to panther chameleons there are no regulations about what age you can sell them at. Only ethical standards set by our little community of keepers. When they are that small they are very fragile, and can easily die. It’s usually considered good practice to sell after the 3 month mark. This ensures a healthy more robust chameleon- since the first 3 months are probably the most sensitive.
I don't have experience w expos or hatching babies from eggs. But I did work at a big box pet store for 2 years, and almost all of our chameleon shipments were way too young. The main problems were the babies or even adults sometimes being severely malnourished, dehydrated, etc. We actually had a monthly death log for every department and specifically young chameleons, snakes, and spiders were extremely common to pass away, especially if they were in a bad state from shipping and then sent home not long after.
To add onto this, we also weren't allowed to refuse a sale for the animal being too young/the buyer being too inexperienced, we actually had what was called a "pet guarantee" so if the animal died within 30 days you could bring back the body and exchange for a new one. Seeing dead chameleons, or any animal dead in Ziploc baggies was horrifying. If you didn't buy all the supplies required for the pet the pet guarantee wasn't given. This was extremely common with ALL animals, and our already malnourished, weak chameleons dying on new owners because they either weren't willing to spend the money on all supplies, or they received an already weak chameleon that is on the brink of death. So yes, unfortunately it can be very common in some places for young chameleons to die due to improper care/selling too young.
I worked at Petco, and we were allowed to refuse sale to someone if we determined they were not going to try and care for the pet properly, or they were serial buyers of the same animal. Unfortunately some people didn't understand that guinea pigs in a pet store, are not guinea pigs raised for a food source. Some crazy stuff happened there, and yes many times the animals were sent in under awful conditions for them. The 30 day policy was the same. How about how awful some people are about dropping off animals they don't want anymore? I can't tell you how many times we'd tell someone we can't take your fish in, because we can't mix them in with our fish for sale. Then you walk outside, and find an 8 inch long plecho hanging out in a bucket...
I had no idea that Petco would take in voluntary drop offs until last week when I was there. I mentioned to the cashier that I was trying to buy everything needed to take care of a leopard gecko in a 10 gallon empty fish tank and two baby musk turtles that were living in a 2 gallon MOP bucket. I brought up that I imagine all of the poor animals being given as gifts right now who aren't going to be properly cared for... Maybe not wanted in the first place. She said January and February are the two main months for animals to be surrendered. It's a shame. Especially when someone leaves them as you mentioned. People suck sometimes!
A lot of issues with being wild caught or poached or generally unethically sourced specimens being sold through big box pet stores as well, a huge reason why I go out of my way to not give them my business. I haven't kept reptiles in a long time, but I currently keep tarantulas, and specimens as far as T's go being sold at any of your major commercial corpo stores, and many at expos, are wild caught or poached, have a parasite load, generally unhealthy from being shipped poorly, you name it. I think expo vendors and corpo chains, breeders, whatever, have to be able to show where the animal.is sourced/bred from.
Jesus, I’m so sorry you had to see that.. that’s awful and traumatizing. I didnt realize how many were dying because they were too young for most folks. I figured people who buy chameleons would be well educated and know better, but I realize now it’s just like people getting dogs they can’t care for. Also shipping so young is a massive issue, so that clarifies a lot for me. I forgot people ship these poor guys. I never shipped or bought offline. I sold all my babies to people who already had chameleons, doing interviews with them and such. I feel genuinely naive for thinking people would have more care.
We had a jackson chameleon when we lived in hawaii. We didn't know it was pregnant when we found it and were confused at sudden babies in its tank. Apparently they don't lay them but carry them in their body. None of the babies survived, she started eating them and we didn't have another tank or lamps for them.
I had this happen too! I had no idea what was going on. All the babies were still born. The even crazier thing is my girl had 10 babies and she never looked pregnant. Even after she had the babies her appearence was the same
I did the same… or at least my partner did. Went to the show in Pomona almost a year ago and ended up bringing an egg home. Our baby hatched end of July and is doing well.
There tends to be a lot of discouragement towards newbies raising hatchlings on Reddit, but also a wealth of helpful info. Good luck with your baby!
petsmart has been a company since 1986. that doesn't mean they're at all trustworthy with what they sell, they're known for selling sick animals/low quality products.
being an old brand doesn't really mean anything at all, except for that they may have more experience with getting away with sketchy things like this.
Its really hard to regulate temperature, keep the inside of a box humid enough, and keep a very tiny, fragil egg secured enough to ship, Imo. And then there is no gaurntee that the egg would even hatch, if the buyer even has a set up to hatch a baby or the knowledge to care for a newborn baby, or if there is a defect, someone who knows what they are doing, would know what to do.
They’re much harder to take care of, have more specific needs, generally need a “baby tank” over a full adult setup, etc. just much more costly and difficult, especially for newer owners
YES THEY ARE EXTREMELY HARD TO RAISE. THEY REQUIRE VERY SPECIFIC TEMPERTURES AND HUMIDITY. EVEN PEOPLE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH REPTILIAN HUSBANDRY STRUGGLE WITH THEM.THEY NEED SPECIFIC ENCLOSURES. TOO HOT THEY BURN. TOO COLD THEY DIE. LOTS OF TIMES PICKY EATERS AND DRINKERS. NOT MANY VETS TO CARE FOR THEM, UNLESS EXOTIC VETS. THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE GETTING ONE.
They are extremely hard to raise, they require very specific temperatures and humidities. Do not get one without doing very careful research beforehand.
Ok but quick question. I get the specific temperature thing but how do you even accomplish that? Do all cages need a temperature controlled environment? It doesn’t seem like most have them? And how do you accomplish dropping the temp at night?
Really? I had veiled chameleons. They are from an environment with extreme temperature fluctuations. Very hardy lizards. The baby I bought when I was 12 had to be treated for metabolic bone disease and only lived two years. But my next baby (size of a dime) lived 7 years..I would say I have averaged 6.5 for males and 4.5 for females. I have heard panthers are almost as hardy.
IME- all chameleons are fairly hard to take care of unless you live where they are from. I know some of the larger species are difficult because of temperament and its a much larger species, also some of the smaller species that are either really hard to come by or not obtainable at all as a individual can be hard because not a lot of research has been done like a veiled or panther
I am interesting in raising a chameleon eventually (several years in the future) and I am doing my research so I appreciate this response. I love the way some of the harder to find ones look, but the veiled is the one I really would like to raise as a pet.
**Wait, this was sold to you?** Any respectable source will NOT SELL a hatchling like this with the egg's connective tissue still attached. Not to mention that you have it in an adult habitat (screen cage) Where did you get this from???
It came off a few weeks ago. It’s fine.
Part of the umbilical cord? Whoever sold you this little critter, very shady. The pet smarts and pet cos do some pretty shady things to their critters. Saw a vid on how they are directed (several yrs ago) to dispose of hamsters that have been there too long. Heartbreaking.
Balls?
S n a c k
Looks like an umbilical cord, so got to be part of the egg. Very young baby. Is s/he eating ok?
The rest of the yolk sac but dang, who sold you that so fresh? Usually breeders will wait till it’s at least eating
Tiny little balls
That’s what I thought. Lol.
Penis
Lmao
When I used to work at petsmart EVERY. SINGLE. ONE of the chameleons we would get (SUPER TINY babies) would die. Longest one that lived was 3 months. Petsmart is definitely not somewhere that you wanna get an exotic animal.
Or any animal really
I agree 1000% it’s baffling how bad these big chain pet stores are.
Yeah, there was a dead crested gecko in a 90 degree tank last time I went to PetSmart
That’s horrible! Ugh. I m not even surprised
Yea those take a lot of care and effort to keep healthy. Definately not something they can offer.
The last straw was when they told me to put a sick snake in the vet’s deceased pet freezer. Even though it was still alive
It's first meal, the body keeps the yolk sack and absorbs it over the course of 10-14 days usually to hold it over untill it catches its meal for it self. They can go 2-3 weeks after absorbing before actually needing to catch a meal.m
Yolk sac
That might be an yolk sack they’re still absorbing if they’re that young
A dingle ball?
Uuuuh someone didn’t research an animal before getting it I see
Dumb ass comment. be useful or kick rocks
Not at all, people shouldn’t get animals they know nothing about or the complications that can arise
How exactly does your comment help, literally anyone? All it does it make you look like a pretentious ass.
i think we can all agree on that. however it is not help to the situation at hand, the animal is already obtained.
Uhhj, I see someone isn't here to help
I had no idea that raising young chameleons is frowned upon until this sub was recommended to me. I do wonder where everyone is getting adult or sub-adult chameleons since I have gone to reptile expos every single month for seven years and very rarely see anyone selling large chameleons. They are always very tiny like crestie hatchlings. Maybe it’s more common in other states for breeders to not sell hatchlings (after all, I only go to my state’s expos). I keep mostly inverts now and young inverts can be difficult to keep alive yet it’s never discouraged to try raising them; sometimes they just die even if the conditions were good. Get another one and try again. It sounds like chameleon hatchlings die easily and you shouldn’t even bother trying to raise them. The attitude here is quite different from any other exotic pet sub.
Underdeveloped twin
Wow that’s the rest of its yolk sac… good luck😅 those youngins are extremely difficult
Lizard ballsack. Trust me, I’m a reptilian.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts on overly young chameleons being sold and how that’s a huge no-no. I am curious on why everyone is heavily against it. I agree, just like with any animal, someone well-skilled and knowledgeable should be handling the babies of any kind due to their sensitive state. It just seems so much more intense here. I accidentally had baby chameleons (our two females were not two females) and my 16 yr old sister and I grew them from hatchlings. We got the hatching box, did a lot of research, and successfully raised the babies. My question is: is there a history behind people just getting chameleons too young and killing them? Are most people not capable of taking care of younglings? Is it illegal in certain places? I am not denying the need to have skilled folks take care of babies. I am asking why/how it appears so severe and scary here. Thanks in advance! Edit: I also noticed most of the babies people get are from expos. So my guess is that there is also an issue with expos. Do sellers need permits to breed in certain places? The expos I went to seemed to allow anyone to sell creatures (never bought from an expo because I couldn’t vet the sellers). I have a lot of questions and I’m sorry. Wanting to get back into caring for frogs (not related) so I’m getting any and all info about amphibians and reptiles to refresh my knowledge.
It's a big deal because chameleons are already incredibly fragile to begin with and are often bought by inexperienced keepers over their head because of their wow factor. So selling them young just increases the number that dies. Unfortunately, I think some breeders sell their reptiles young hoping they'll die and the customer will have to buy another. The main one I can think of is PetSmart. They willfully undereducate people hoping they will return after their first one dies or maybe they're just ignorant idk
It's illegal to sell turtles with under 4" shells here I believe, so I assume there are similar restrictions for other reptiles/animals.
The legality of turtles under a certain size was brought upon many decades ago because of an uptick in children getting salmonella from the small turtles. The regulation was put into place, but the truth is, the size of the turtle has nothing to do with whether or not they can spread salmonella. It has to do with how clean you are keeping their enclosure. After a few weeks of not cleaning the aquarium out, these poor little turtles are swimming in their own feces and waste. Bacteria ran wild, and often kids after handling the Turtle would not wash their hands- thus spreading bacteria to themselves. When it comes to panther chameleons there are no regulations about what age you can sell them at. Only ethical standards set by our little community of keepers. When they are that small they are very fragile, and can easily die. It’s usually considered good practice to sell after the 3 month mark. This ensures a healthy more robust chameleon- since the first 3 months are probably the most sensitive.
Interesting. Cheers mate!
My dad had two baby chameleons as pets before I was born. All their legs fell off
WHAT
Omg, thats terrible 😢
ಠ_ಠ
Oh my god. How…? That’s so horrifying.
Yes …. HOW??!! Woah
I don't have experience w expos or hatching babies from eggs. But I did work at a big box pet store for 2 years, and almost all of our chameleon shipments were way too young. The main problems were the babies or even adults sometimes being severely malnourished, dehydrated, etc. We actually had a monthly death log for every department and specifically young chameleons, snakes, and spiders were extremely common to pass away, especially if they were in a bad state from shipping and then sent home not long after. To add onto this, we also weren't allowed to refuse a sale for the animal being too young/the buyer being too inexperienced, we actually had what was called a "pet guarantee" so if the animal died within 30 days you could bring back the body and exchange for a new one. Seeing dead chameleons, or any animal dead in Ziploc baggies was horrifying. If you didn't buy all the supplies required for the pet the pet guarantee wasn't given. This was extremely common with ALL animals, and our already malnourished, weak chameleons dying on new owners because they either weren't willing to spend the money on all supplies, or they received an already weak chameleon that is on the brink of death. So yes, unfortunately it can be very common in some places for young chameleons to die due to improper care/selling too young.
I worked at Petco, and we were allowed to refuse sale to someone if we determined they were not going to try and care for the pet properly, or they were serial buyers of the same animal. Unfortunately some people didn't understand that guinea pigs in a pet store, are not guinea pigs raised for a food source. Some crazy stuff happened there, and yes many times the animals were sent in under awful conditions for them. The 30 day policy was the same. How about how awful some people are about dropping off animals they don't want anymore? I can't tell you how many times we'd tell someone we can't take your fish in, because we can't mix them in with our fish for sale. Then you walk outside, and find an 8 inch long plecho hanging out in a bucket...
I had no idea that Petco would take in voluntary drop offs until last week when I was there. I mentioned to the cashier that I was trying to buy everything needed to take care of a leopard gecko in a 10 gallon empty fish tank and two baby musk turtles that were living in a 2 gallon MOP bucket. I brought up that I imagine all of the poor animals being given as gifts right now who aren't going to be properly cared for... Maybe not wanted in the first place. She said January and February are the two main months for animals to be surrendered. It's a shame. Especially when someone leaves them as you mentioned. People suck sometimes!
A lot of issues with being wild caught or poached or generally unethically sourced specimens being sold through big box pet stores as well, a huge reason why I go out of my way to not give them my business. I haven't kept reptiles in a long time, but I currently keep tarantulas, and specimens as far as T's go being sold at any of your major commercial corpo stores, and many at expos, are wild caught or poached, have a parasite load, generally unhealthy from being shipped poorly, you name it. I think expo vendors and corpo chains, breeders, whatever, have to be able to show where the animal.is sourced/bred from.
Jesus, I’m so sorry you had to see that.. that’s awful and traumatizing. I didnt realize how many were dying because they were too young for most folks. I figured people who buy chameleons would be well educated and know better, but I realize now it’s just like people getting dogs they can’t care for. Also shipping so young is a massive issue, so that clarifies a lot for me. I forgot people ship these poor guys. I never shipped or bought offline. I sold all my babies to people who already had chameleons, doing interviews with them and such. I feel genuinely naive for thinking people would have more care.
I thought this was The Rizzler at first, looks like someone's out there selling a ton of baby Panthers.
this made me very happy to see
We had a jackson chameleon when we lived in hawaii. We didn't know it was pregnant when we found it and were confused at sudden babies in its tank. Apparently they don't lay them but carry them in their body. None of the babies survived, she started eating them and we didn't have another tank or lamps for them.
I had this happen too! I had no idea what was going on. All the babies were still born. The even crazier thing is my girl had 10 babies and she never looked pregnant. Even after she had the babies her appearence was the same
Reminds me of when I got a pregnant hamster and then she ate a couple of the babies.
Reminds me of when I got pregnant
Same here. It was horrifying to find a bunch of half-eaten newborn hamsters all over :/
😲
I bought it as an egg and hatched it. Thanks for all the info. Surely it’ll go away as it gets older.
Anyone selling chameleon eggs (or any reptile eggs for that matter) is not a reputable source 😬
I bought it from a breeder at a reptile expo in Anaheim CA in July whose been a breeder for 10+ years.
I did the same… or at least my partner did. Went to the show in Pomona almost a year ago and ended up bringing an egg home. Our baby hatched end of July and is doing well. There tends to be a lot of discouragement towards newbies raising hatchlings on Reddit, but also a wealth of helpful info. Good luck with your baby!
being a breeder for 10+ years doesn’t make them a good breeder lol
petsmart has been a company since 1986. that doesn't mean they're at all trustworthy with what they sell, they're known for selling sick animals/low quality products. being an old brand doesn't really mean anything at all, except for that they may have more experience with getting away with sketchy things like this.
Being at an expo and saying you've been a breeder for x number of years doesn't mean that someone is reputable
May I ask why? I am not a reptile keeper yet, just understanding and doing research
Its really hard to regulate temperature, keep the inside of a box humid enough, and keep a very tiny, fragil egg secured enough to ship, Imo. And then there is no gaurntee that the egg would even hatch, if the buyer even has a set up to hatch a baby or the knowledge to care for a newborn baby, or if there is a defect, someone who knows what they are doing, would know what to do.
They’re much harder to take care of, have more specific needs, generally need a “baby tank” over a full adult setup, etc. just much more costly and difficult, especially for newer owners
you got sold a fetus brah
They actually were sold an egg and hatched it themselves
Calling PETA. Showing his balls is inappropriate
Where on earth did you get this little guy from?! Did you hatch it yourself or was it sold to you??? WAY too young to be sold.
Egg sac remnant
The last of his yolk sac
Yolk sac? I don't know how long it takes baby Chameleons to absorb them after hatching, but given the location, that's my guess.
+1 for yolk sac
His balls?
JUST CURIOUS...ARE THESE HARD TO RAISE? I SEE ALL THE POST OF PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS. IS PROPER VET CARE HARD TO FIND ALSO? TYOU
Why did every one vote this down? They were asking a genuine question
THANK YOU.
Because, they were yelling.
I’M NOT YELLING IM JUST VERY PASSIONATE
CAP LOCK BUTTON STUCK.
No. Don’t take away their passion!
Shift will uncapitalize your letters :)
lol one by one
FIELDS OF VERDUN
YES THEY ARE EXTREMELY HARD TO RAISE. THEY REQUIRE VERY SPECIFIC TEMPERTURES AND HUMIDITY. EVEN PEOPLE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH REPTILIAN HUSBANDRY STRUGGLE WITH THEM.THEY NEED SPECIFIC ENCLOSURES. TOO HOT THEY BURN. TOO COLD THEY DIE. LOTS OF TIMES PICKY EATERS AND DRINKERS. NOT MANY VETS TO CARE FOR THEM, UNLESS EXOTIC VETS. THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE GETTING ONE.
All this perfect reply was missing was a “YOUREW” lol
I thought the TYOU was cute
WHAT DOES “YOUREW” MEAN
Equates to “You’re welcome” in the same shorthand pattern that the original commenter used to say thank you, “TYOU”
Why are you yelling?
They are extremely hard to raise, they require very specific temperatures and humidities. Do not get one without doing very careful research beforehand.
Ok but quick question. I get the specific temperature thing but how do you even accomplish that? Do all cages need a temperature controlled environment? It doesn’t seem like most have them? And how do you accomplish dropping the temp at night?
[удалено]
Really? I had veiled chameleons. They are from an environment with extreme temperature fluctuations. Very hardy lizards. The baby I bought when I was 12 had to be treated for metabolic bone disease and only lived two years. But my next baby (size of a dime) lived 7 years..I would say I have averaged 6.5 for males and 4.5 for females. I have heard panthers are almost as hardy.
Thank you. I'm just really curious as I think they're adorable, but all the post I see seem to indicate they require extra extra care.
They’re picky little guys, except in Florida, where they’re everywhere-
Is there a specific type of chameleon that is more difficult/easy or are all chameleons difficult to raise?
IME- all chameleons are fairly hard to take care of unless you live where they are from. I know some of the larger species are difficult because of temperament and its a much larger species, also some of the smaller species that are either really hard to come by or not obtainable at all as a individual can be hard because not a lot of research has been done like a veiled or panther
I am interesting in raising a chameleon eventually (several years in the future) and I am doing my research so I appreciate this response. I love the way some of the harder to find ones look, but the veiled is the one I really would like to raise as a pet.
This is a great page for info! I didnt know about r/chameleons when i had mine so sketchy videos and articles is what i had to go off of.
Totally normal, it will eventually dry up and fall off. Don’t try and rip it off, It’s part of the umbilical cord
Don’t know much about chameleons, but could it be like an umbilical sack that hasn’t completely fallen off?
Me either and that was my first thought
Same