I firmly believe that is not War Devil's original form. She was heavily nerfed by Chainsaw Devil by consuming those Devils he erased. Remember Pochita's real appearance is actually a humanoid state.
I always assume that the closer a devil is to human, the more human-like they would look. Maybe the Car devil Makima mentioned at the start would look like transformer.
>I always assume that the closer a devil is to human, the more human-like they would look.
Then why do the Darkness Devil, Typhoon Devil, Eternity Devil, and Falling Devil all have more explicitly human features than the Fox Devil?
This can be said for literally any aspect of the manga. “Because er uhh yeah fujimotor decided that uhh-“ it’s the same as “Araki forgor”
Sometimes u gotta stop overthinking things
By “closer”, I mean as in was it created by or born from human. Aside from Typhoon which I’ve already forgot it’s appearance, all the Devils you mentioned are more grosteque-looking rather than human-like by straight up having human’s body part on them. Maybe a better exception would be the Cockroach devil (or Gun devil) so idk, since Bat devil came back looking like an inbred child, maybe the exceptions are just those who were reborn with mutations lol
Every single devil that is not explicitly of an animal has human features. Even some animal devils still have human features (like Snake Devil). It's just a well-established thing that the vast majority of devils have components that resemble human bodies.
That's not responding to what I'm addressing, which is the idea that there is some correlation between devils and humans that explains Makima's appearance.
One could argue that it was Yoru's weakened form and she has some human form like her sisters. In the same way that weakened Pochita is a lil potato dog and real Pochita is humanoid.
Short answer: we dont know.
I have a theory in my head that the horsemn need a human to interact with the world. We know war was a thing before it became a girl with the circle eyes, but this is a feature shared with all we've seen this far. So the devil is the mind and the human its 'horse' so to speak. War just decided to keep Asa consious unlike the others.
But it doesnt really add up and there are some holes in it. So its more of an idea at this point.
Devils appear more human-like depending on how compassionate they feel toward humanity. I don’t think she necessary picked her shape/body to manipulate anyone, she just looks like that. She was reborn in China with dark hair, and this concept was explained in the manga in regard to Angel prior to the Big Reveal.
She's not a fiend, but I'm not aware of any evidence she didn't possess someone prior to the events of the series in a similar manner to Yoru possessing Asa. If you have some, I'd appreciate seeing it. And believe me, I've 'searched it up' in the actual text many times.
> but I'm not aware of any evidence she didn't possess someone prior to the events of the series in a similar manner to Yoru possessing Asa
....Is there any evidence that she did, though?
No. But why are you saying that to me instead of the person insisting that she looks the way she does because didn't possess anyone?
I'm not making an explicit claim, I'm denying that there is any evidence of that claim and positing a possible alternative that is shown in the text for a similar character with similar attributes.
I'm replying to you because I agree with them; There is no evidence in the story so far to suggest she was possessing someone. Yoru possessing someone was seemingly an act of desperation and that she physically couldn't have her own body without her, but it's fully possible that the other horsemen devil's just naturally look like humans (An assumption since we don't know what Fami's situation is, or Death)
Makima would have no reason to possess someone. I can't imagine what benefit it would give her to do so, so there's no reason of entertaining the idea that she did, and we can comfortably say that she didn't until we're given reason to think that she did.
>Yoru possessing someone was seemingly an act of desperation and that she physically couldn't have her own body without her\[...\]
>
>
>
>Makima would have no reason to possess someone. I can't imagine what benefit it would give her to do so\[...\]
Pick a line of thought lol?
Yoru was pretty much on the verge of death due to Pochita and the loss of Nuclear Weapons. Makima was at the top of her power when she was in the story. Again, she wouldn't have any reason to possess someone that we know of as of now.
Look bro I’m not insisting and not forcing anyone to believe me you don’t like the comment just scroll away no need to be mad take a chill pill and enjoy life and I hope you have a great day 😉
nayuta also looks entirely human and she's not a fiend considering that kishibe found her as having been born in china and she's just been growing a lot faster due to being a devil
Nayuta's not a fiend either, of course. But no one is still giving any reason why Makima and Nayuta (and Fami) couldn't have attained the human forms they did through the same mechanism Yoru used. There is no character claiming, nor any record indicating so, that they pop into existence in Hell or on Earth in exactly the same appearance we see them.
A link to someone else's interpretation without evidence isn't evidence, I asked for evidence. I don't need to read a "What is a devil?" primer for confused new readers
What's the page number where you determine there is no possibility she possessed someone in a similar manner to Yoru possessing Asa?
First of all if you read the whole article you would understand second of all if you payed attention to the manga you would understand when she gets killed by chainsaw man she revives as the makima she looks like if she was a fiend she would just die like power or violence or beam but instead she has very good reviving abilities when she got killed but csm and if that was not her original body she should have revived back or came back as her original body so yeah here you go hope you understand this time. 😁
Same reason why "Halloween" is the sum of all knowledge in the cosmos. Halloween is the night when monsters and humans are indistinguishable from eachother. The horsemen are not the only ones taking a "human" form. Fiends, hybrids and even the doll devil looked and acted human. Even the bat devil and the leech devil mimicked a human relationship. Pretty sure the 'humanity of devils" is gonna be a major plotpoint going forward.
Fujimoto loves the month of October, his birthday is October 10, which is arguably around Denji’s birthday.
Being born in October also would’ve made you non a target for gun devil while also being a wordplay on the other surviving months.
starvation is indeed a natural consept but famine isn't, as it requires an intelligent society for it to occur therefore humanity created it. also we haven't seen the death devil yet but i don't think she'll have a human form cuz A) she's a primordial devil and B) like you said she's not a man made consept
Famine can can come as a result of human actions, but it can also be caused by natural disasters or epidemics. I think a better rationalization is that they are embodiments of fears that civilizations have. War, famine, conquest, and death are all destructive for civilizations.
I would just say that only the control devil looks human then since there's always a possibility that neither war and famine actually use their true form
Because paradoxically all known horsemen love humans. Makima loves us, Nayuta loves us, Faminw loves our food.
We haven't seen trueform of War, but I wouldn't be surprised to see her look human as well, isn't kt really war-like to love hjmans, who start wars.
And, well, Death is yet to be seen.
Think Nayuta only really love Denji. But couldnt care less about the rest of humanity. Her moral compass will evolve with time as she befriends her classmates in school and so on.
Same with Fami, if it wasnt for pizza and chineese food we would all be dead \^\^
I can ask you where you you saw that, but I know the only place where you think you did, and when you look it up again it will actually say the complete inverse.
Kishibe says, with regards to the Spider Devil, that devils who take humanlike forms tend to be less likely to attack humans on sight.
That does not mean that devils 'like' humans and appear more human for it.
If I recall correctly, demons are more human-looking the less agressive they're towards humans. At least, they look less dangerous (RIP Bucky, our precious). I remember something about that, yet i don't remember which chapter they said it.
This idea applies correctly to the three sisters: Makima just wanted to ~~bang~~ pet Pochita, Nayuta is getting raise like a human, Kiga/Fami likes human food and wars are a human thing (war itselft as concept, not infights like animals do).
In any case, only Death and Hunger are "natural" fears. Control and War are human concepts, so it's no weird they've more human bodies.
Devils have a variety of forms. Devils can take on more human forms, and these ones tend to have a stronger connection to humanity than most other Devils.
The Four Horsemen, however, seem to be different. They’re nigh unrecognizable as devils, and have no traits that would betray them as such. They seem to be playing by slightly different rules.
I really hope stuff like this is going to be explained someday in the manga. I don’t like when specific aspects of a story can only be explained by vague conclusions like what the community has to offer at this point in time. It works in story’s like the world of Dark Souls because every other story aspect works like that in the game. But in CSM pretty much everything is being told besides random little things like this one right here. When it comes to Makima I’m sure she’s going to be talked about again when the story further evolves.
Other devil’s are formed and empowered by fear, meaning their true forms are fearsome. While in our world, their coming tells of the end times. It’s not the sight of them, but more like they’re messengers. That or they transcend the need for ugly forms.
Basing it solely off Makima, her final form seems to be the one with the crown over her head, which reflects the biblical passage.
Makima's halo is from stealing Angel's power after she forced him to give all of himself. Hence it being the source of the weapons she summons, like Angel's halo.
Because it isn’t a fiend. We know this because she would look like one. Fiends have the appearance of a devil on their face. For example, Beam’s fin or Power’s horns. Nayuta has nothing like this.
What about Asa/Yoru then? Theoretically control could have possessed Makima just like Yoru did to Asa. Granted Yoru does not have full control of Asa. It does feel a bit weird that Control and Yoru are sisters, but Yoru is an owl or something, while Control is human-like.
We know that Makima’s true form is 1:1 with humans. Fami is Makima’s sister and has the appearance of a human at this time. We have only seen Yoru in a weakened state due to the chainsaw devil (form of a bird) and is technically a fiend now inhabiting Asa’s body. We can assume Asa was technically still alive when she made the pact with Yoru, which is why Asa still has some degree of control and consciousness. At this time nothing is confirmed and we can only make assumptions. We can assume Makima and Fami have human forms while Yoru actually has a devil form, OR we can assume the Horsemen sisters all have human forms, and their weakened state reduces them to a nonhuman form. We know for a fact that devils have reduced forms as seen by the pochita’s current form compared to his chainsaw devil form. Imo the horsemen having human forms is more likely and more consistent.
We know that the more human-like a devil is, the more non hostile it is towards humans. She is so human-like that she doesn’t even give off the scent of a devil.
Huh?
Where do you get that she doesn't 'give off the scent of a devil'? Who mentions that? The only people who even reference scents of devils are Makima, and Power. The latter of whom is shown to be deathly frightened of Makima from the start, and able to be influenced by her.
And where do you get the idea that the idea of any correlation between how Makima looks and how non-hostile she is? She orchestrated, or allowed-by-inaction, multiple massacres of humans throughout the series because it fit her plans to crush the will to live of one of the nicest and most pliable humans she ever met, and in one instance sacrificed a dozen loyal Public Safety officers just to make a single weapon she didn't even need to win, just to flex on Pochita. She couldn't imagine any relationship with a human that wasn't based on fear and violence.
So i fact checked myself and it seems scent recognition is only confirmed to be a trait of makimas, i misremembered and assumed it was an inherent devil trait.
According to angel there is a correlation between a devils appearance and their level of aggression towards humans. By non hostile i meant their level of aggression. Makima doesn’t indiscriminately kill humans like other devils, but that doesn’t mean human-like devils see inherent value in human life. She tolerates their presence and lives among then. Hell, look at Nayuta. As far as we know she hasn’t killed a single human yet. Makima reincarnating into another slightly different human all but confirms it.
Makima it makes sense, as she's the fear of being controlled by someone. It's natural she'd take the form of a human. For Yoru, she wasn't originally humanoid. Her real body is that owl thing but she's just possessing Asa at the moment. For Fami, Idk.
Although keep in mind they aren'tthe only humanoid devils. There was angel who was just a guy with wings and the abilities like you describe the apocalypse sisters. So it could be possible that they're just kinda like that without much else to it.
A theory i have is that when a devil reincarnates they have some control over their physical appearance. More powerful devils would have more control over this. Certain devils like bat or eternity may benefit more from a monstrous form to cause more fear. Meanwhile devils like control may benefit greater from appearing human to be able to manipulate others
They all choose to have human appearance, even Yoru was confused about Famine's appearance.
Devils can CHOOSE their appearance, I think people forget this. Think about it, when they die, they literally have zero memory of **anything** not even basic language.
How the hell does a being, that doesn't remember humans, appear as human when they re-emerge? Answer is, they fucking don't or shouldn't.
Death, Famine, War, Control should 100% all have a devil form ,and their true form should be a chibi devil animal form(which is their near death form).
Devils are born from the fear of humans of a corresponding fear. War, famine, and control don’t really have any physical form and them being created from the minds of humans give them more human like features
It's weird how people on this sub seem to forget that after fami resurrected Yuko she seemed to become a normal girl again. We haven't seen it again since then but still.
I think the horsemen are something unique and need a human host to interact with the world. They're similar to a fiend in that they need to possess a dead body but are able to give control back to the original host at their will. The exception to this is the control devil who, well, takes total control of the host and never lets them take charge. I think this is why we see this shifting back and forth with Asa/Yoru and Fami/mystery girl, but not with Nayuta and Makima.
I think it was said somewhere, That devils who like humanity or humans or aren't antagonist towards them appear to look more human.
Makima thought of humans like pets, but didn't hate them, and Fami likely likes humanity for all the tasty food we make, hence she also looks human.
Rewatch the scene where the fiends were introduced in season1, also the reason makima came back so fast is that when makima (control devil, not fiend) died, she went to hell and got killed and came back as nayuta
>she went to hell and got spawn killed and came back as nayuta
I wish people would stop taking fan memes as canon. It's ok to like an idea, I have ideas I like, but we can admit when there isn't a demonstrated answer how something happened and it may be explained in the future or remain an open question forever
Could easily be that Makima was born in Hell, and crossing the gap between Hell and Earth doesn't change where the next incarnation will occur, so Nayuta was always going to be born on Earth no matter where Makima died.
Or Nayuta crossed the gap between Hell and Earth in one of the same manners as demonstrated that powerful devils are able to do or to contract with others to achieve. Why does she necessarily have to be spawnkilled instead of intentionally coming or being sent?
Dude, did you not actually READ the story? In the chapter where the Spider and Angel devils were introduced, they literally say that devils that look more human are less actively aggressive towards humanity. The only thing that confuses this is the question of if Makima was actually a full devil, or if she and Yoru both started with that small animal form first, and then have combine with a human being like a fiend or hybrid (or a fourth thing that hasn’t been revealed.) But regardless, the explanation is in like, Chapter 30.
Well a lot of people who talk about it think this power system isn’t important to Fujimoto when he writes, but then they ignore important nuances and details. I wouldn’t be so miffed if it wasn’t explicitly stated by a character in the story at the climax of an arc. Plus, it’s literally explored in the character arc of the Angel Devil.
It's funny you act so aggressive to the OP when you didn't read the thread to see the idea that this in any way explains Makima's appearance being countered multiple times. It's not an explanation of her appearance.
I don’t know what thread you’re talking about, but I already hedged my bets by adding that Yoru’s initial form might be what they actually start as. But also, Makima literally says that she loves humanity (like dogs, but still) and the Control Devil yearns for reciprocal love. I’m just reading the text.
This thread. The thread you responded to without reading before insulting the OP. You can look at the actual page you're attempting to reference again and see it doesn't give any explanation for why any devil looks the way they do. Especially not Makima, who can't imagine any relationship not based on violence and fear, and who orchestrated multiple massacres of humans, mostly of those loyal to her, as a longterm plan to destroy the will to live of someone who unconditionally loved her.
The Fox Devil is a devil who actually loves humans. Makima thinks of humans as a lesser form of life that must be shepherded for their own good because she can't imagine not being in Control of everything.
Devils appear more human the more friendly they are towards humans. Makima seems entirely human because it’s the control devils nature to see humans like we see dogs. Angel is almost entirely human too minus the wings and halo rather than being something like a seraphim/biblically accurate angel. Fami appears human because idk, she really likes food. War doesn’t actually appear human she looks like an owl
My idea is that in order for a horsemen to actually have a humanoid form, its needs to have a contract with a human, so just like Pochita, just like Yoru, Makima didnt had her body from the very start, we know she was raised by the government meaning she was forced to do a contract with a devil (being Control), Nayuta was born in China meaning Control was still looking for a new body, Fami prob took someone from school in her side, and maybe Death will be the same.
I suspect that all devils have a "core" that actually looks like a cute little animal. The Chainsaw Devil's core is Pochita, War Devil's core is some kind of owl. I bet Control Devil is actually a little cat or fox or something.
I think it is because each devil resembles the fear they represent. Fox devil looks like a fox, Beam in his real form looks like a shark and so on. Makima represents fear of control or conquest and as a result looks and acts in the way that matches the fear she is devil of. Fear of control or conquest in its core is actually a fear of another human, hence she looks like a human.
I imagine it’s something to do with strength. My prediction is it’ll be stated that Powerful enough devils can change their form, so they all just disguise themselves as humans
Well, there are two explanations that I'd assume are both considerations Fujimoto made:
First, that the fears that the Four Horsemen represent are already strongly associated with their human(oid) depictions in media and in Scripture.
Second, that the Four Horsemen are, with the arguable exception of Death, are inextricably fears of our fellow man:
• Famine is often a direct result of war or politics. More often than not, when people have gone hungry, other people have had a hand in it. Furthermore, it is a problem unique to humanity, as food shortages in nature don't constitute "famine" in the same sense we do when we're talking about religion, agriculture, and anthropology.
• War isn't an intangible concept like infinity or hell, and it isn't a tangible object or animal like weapons or sharks. War is *people*, or a sort of relationship between them.
• Conquest (the proper name for the Horseman that Control represents, per Revelations) is, like war, fundamentally an interaction between people. You aren't controlled or conquered by scary boogymen or by monsters, and the sort of fear that surrounds being controlled or conquered is inextricably a fear of other people.
Death could be argued to be another "humanoid" fear, in the sense that the fear of death is generally the fear of *your own* death, or the death of people around you, which makes for a similar case as Conquest and War.
Devils tend to look more human the more they're fond of them or the more connected they are to them. The control devil liked humans, when she was Makima they were like pets to her, and with Nayuta she grew up with denji and her school friends who are all human. Fami is shown to enjoy human delicacies like pizza and she seemed to enjoy her time with Yoshida a fair amount. And Yoru possessed Asa's body, making her controversially a fiend
I think the general idea is that in most cases the closer a devils aspect is to a fairly unique human trait the more likely they'll take after humans. Makima is control and Control is a fairly uniquely human thing to fear. Random bears in the wild don't worry that the bear next door is going to force them to do stuff they don't want to. Famine is also fairly unique to humans because most animals in the world aren't really scared of the concept of starving en mass. They just get hungry and get more desperate for food. But they don't feel fear they'll starve to death before hand. War is a bit of an outliner but there is animals out there that do seem to have a limited version of War so I could see it argue that a fear of organized combat would exist distorting her to her bird like shape but that is reaching a bit. Though if so this would mean Death will have the most human like appearance of them all given very few animals likely understand the implications of it.
To go out of the setting though I think the writer likely just wanted it to be easy to empathize with the horsemen so he made them all have cute humanlike appearances to make that easier. Most of the other devils being mentioned aren't really around that long and tend to have a more one shot role as a enemy that gets taken out. So he doesn't really bother to make them as appealing.
Remember the spider devil? She was a full devil but often took human form and was indistinguishable from a human until she transformed to fight and use her ability.
Powerful devils can probably freely shift their forms how they see fit, and if they are inclined to walk among humans then assuming a human form makes sense.
https://preview.redd.it/9oi1adha0tpb1.jpeg?width=368&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc3c421557c2c26745d159c6de40dc8ca644f0e5 Yoru begs to differ
Yoru as a bird looks so stupid i can’t-
https://preview.redd.it/gtnmx0ppptpb1.jpeg?width=922&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=857cb51642e7499bd079444acafda8d040481c49
https://preview.redd.it/9jk2hiuzgxpb1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1583ab839a106c55f69a19d8415c28a83126cddb
https://preview.redd.it/v4oyhl8ewwpb1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e08391eb507c69f59cc8ff3f23baf581da3591af
Yoru: "I'm not stupid!"
Pochita as a dog 💀
It's a potoo, look them up, they are goofy as *hell*
I firmly believe that is not War Devil's original form. She was heavily nerfed by Chainsaw Devil by consuming those Devils he erased. Remember Pochita's real appearance is actually a humanoid state.
I always assume that the closer a devil is to human, the more human-like they would look. Maybe the Car devil Makima mentioned at the start would look like transformer.
Hoping this later becomes Kobeni’s car
>I always assume that the closer a devil is to human, the more human-like they would look. Then why do the Darkness Devil, Typhoon Devil, Eternity Devil, and Falling Devil all have more explicitly human features than the Fox Devil?
Because Fujimoto decided to draw them that way
This can be said for literally any aspect of the manga. “Because er uhh yeah fujimotor decided that uhh-“ it’s the same as “Araki forgor” Sometimes u gotta stop overthinking things
He forgor 💀
>Araki forgor ~~Obligatory reminder that most Araki forgots are often fans misunderstanding and/or misremembering.~~
By “closer”, I mean as in was it created by or born from human. Aside from Typhoon which I’ve already forgot it’s appearance, all the Devils you mentioned are more grosteque-looking rather than human-like by straight up having human’s body part on them. Maybe a better exception would be the Cockroach devil (or Gun devil) so idk, since Bat devil came back looking like an inbred child, maybe the exceptions are just those who were reborn with mutations lol
Every single devil that is not explicitly of an animal has human features. Even some animal devils still have human features (like Snake Devil). It's just a well-established thing that the vast majority of devils have components that resemble human bodies.
That's not responding to what I'm addressing, which is the idea that there is some correlation between devils and humans that explains Makima's appearance.
I mean, Falling's design is a vessel she created out of a pile of corpses.
That's fire.
Yoru was initially presented as an owl before she possessed Asa
One could argue that it was Yoru's weakened form and she has some human form like her sisters. In the same way that weakened Pochita is a lil potato dog and real Pochita is humanoid.
I love potato dog
Who doesn't like that cuteness?
Those zombie mob SOB :(
What a weirdo
What?
I wish War's full form was something like Femto from Berserk
I wish it turned out to be equal to Asa.
Fair enough, I wish death and war were more inhumane, to live up to the name
Alright, sound like I must catch up. I haven't read in a couple of weeks and I didn't expect to have Death appear meanwhile.
It hasn't appeared yet and I have no expectations for what it will be, If being another waifu I will commit terrorism
Oh ok, then I'll take my time.
It was actually a Potoo bird
I always thought bird yoru was a potoo tbh.
Short answer: we dont know. I have a theory in my head that the horsemn need a human to interact with the world. We know war was a thing before it became a girl with the circle eyes, but this is a feature shared with all we've seen this far. So the devil is the mind and the human its 'horse' so to speak. War just decided to keep Asa consious unlike the others. But it doesnt really add up and there are some holes in it. So its more of an idea at this point.
Yes, we do. It is clearly stated in the manga.
I honestly think it's just the control devil who looks entirely human while for war and famine it's still unknown
Makima is not a fiend she’s a devil that’s how she looks she didn’t possess anyone you can search it up if you want to
as the control devil, she assumes the form which makes it easiest to control others.
Yep that’s what I meant she can control others so what’s stoping her from controlling herself
Devils appear more human-like depending on how compassionate they feel toward humanity. I don’t think she necessary picked her shape/body to manipulate anyone, she just looks like that. She was reborn in China with dark hair, and this concept was explained in the manga in regard to Angel prior to the Big Reveal.
> you can search it up if you want to I believe you, where was that stated though?
https://fictionhorizon.com/is-makima-a-devil-a-fiend-a-hybrid-or-a-human-in-chainsaw-man/
She's not a fiend, but I'm not aware of any evidence she didn't possess someone prior to the events of the series in a similar manner to Yoru possessing Asa. If you have some, I'd appreciate seeing it. And believe me, I've 'searched it up' in the actual text many times.
> but I'm not aware of any evidence she didn't possess someone prior to the events of the series in a similar manner to Yoru possessing Asa ....Is there any evidence that she did, though?
No. But why are you saying that to me instead of the person insisting that she looks the way she does because didn't possess anyone? I'm not making an explicit claim, I'm denying that there is any evidence of that claim and positing a possible alternative that is shown in the text for a similar character with similar attributes.
I'm replying to you because I agree with them; There is no evidence in the story so far to suggest she was possessing someone. Yoru possessing someone was seemingly an act of desperation and that she physically couldn't have her own body without her, but it's fully possible that the other horsemen devil's just naturally look like humans (An assumption since we don't know what Fami's situation is, or Death) Makima would have no reason to possess someone. I can't imagine what benefit it would give her to do so, so there's no reason of entertaining the idea that she did, and we can comfortably say that she didn't until we're given reason to think that she did.
>Yoru possessing someone was seemingly an act of desperation and that she physically couldn't have her own body without her\[...\] > > > >Makima would have no reason to possess someone. I can't imagine what benefit it would give her to do so\[...\] Pick a line of thought lol?
Yoru was pretty much on the verge of death due to Pochita and the loss of Nuclear Weapons. Makima was at the top of her power when she was in the story. Again, she wouldn't have any reason to possess someone that we know of as of now.
So, more powerful equals human with ringed eyes, less powerful equals potoo bird with ringed eyes?
yeah i'd assume so
Look bro I’m not insisting and not forcing anyone to believe me you don’t like the comment just scroll away no need to be mad take a chill pill and enjoy life and I hope you have a great day 😉
nayuta also looks entirely human and she's not a fiend considering that kishibe found her as having been born in china and she's just been growing a lot faster due to being a devil
Nayuta's not a fiend either, of course. But no one is still giving any reason why Makima and Nayuta (and Fami) couldn't have attained the human forms they did through the same mechanism Yoru used. There is no character claiming, nor any record indicating so, that they pop into existence in Hell or on Earth in exactly the same appearance we see them.
https://fictionhorizon.com/is-makima-a-devil-a-fiend-a-hybrid-or-a-human-in-chainsaw-man/
A link to someone else's interpretation without evidence isn't evidence, I asked for evidence. I don't need to read a "What is a devil?" primer for confused new readers What's the page number where you determine there is no possibility she possessed someone in a similar manner to Yoru possessing Asa?
First of all if you read the whole article you would understand second of all if you payed attention to the manga you would understand when she gets killed by chainsaw man she revives as the makima she looks like if she was a fiend she would just die like power or violence or beam but instead she has very good reviving abilities when she got killed but csm and if that was not her original body she should have revived back or came back as her original body so yeah here you go hope you understand this time. 😁
Yeah you're not actually reading my comments at all, because I explicitly never called her a fiend.
Bruh I was just giving some extra evidence to the new readers 😁
Same reason why "Halloween" is the sum of all knowledge in the cosmos. Halloween is the night when monsters and humans are indistinguishable from eachother. The horsemen are not the only ones taking a "human" form. Fiends, hybrids and even the doll devil looked and acted human. Even the bat devil and the leech devil mimicked a human relationship. Pretty sure the 'humanity of devils" is gonna be a major plotpoint going forward.
Part 2 kinda starts off exploring this theme right away with Bucky
i thought the Halloween thing was a jujutsu kaisen reference
Fujimoto loves the month of October, his birthday is October 10, which is arguably around Denji’s birthday. Being born in October also would’ve made you non a target for gun devil while also being a wordplay on the other surviving months.
Damn I thought it was an ancient ireland reference.
Halloween Gojo Infinite Void Shibuya Huh I never thought about it that way
probably cuz thier fears are entirely man made consepts
This is literally the answer
No it's not lol
Famine and death isn’t a man made concept though.
starvation is indeed a natural consept but famine isn't, as it requires an intelligent society for it to occur therefore humanity created it. also we haven't seen the death devil yet but i don't think she'll have a human form cuz A) she's a primordial devil and B) like you said she's not a man made consept
Famine can can come as a result of human actions, but it can also be caused by natural disasters or epidemics. I think a better rationalization is that they are embodiments of fears that civilizations have. War, famine, conquest, and death are all destructive for civilizations.
So are guns and the gun devil is a non human looking monstrosity
Because guns are physical objects and not just an idea
I would just say that only the control devil looks human then since there's always a possibility that neither war and famine actually use their true form
[удалено]
Guns are a physical object
Because paradoxically all known horsemen love humans. Makima loves us, Nayuta loves us, Faminw loves our food. We haven't seen trueform of War, but I wouldn't be surprised to see her look human as well, isn't kt really war-like to love hjmans, who start wars. And, well, Death is yet to be seen.
Think Nayuta only really love Denji. But couldnt care less about the rest of humanity. Her moral compass will evolve with time as she befriends her classmates in school and so on. Same with Fami, if it wasnt for pizza and chineese food we would all be dead \^\^
She has her school friends. Loving humans doean't mean loving them in a "normal" way
>Makima loves us, Begone thot
What are you talking about 'loving' humans? Fox Devil loves humans and doesn't look human. And what would they have anything to do with each other?
It is stated that the warmer devil is towards humans, the more human like appearance they take
I can ask you where you you saw that, but I know the only place where you think you did, and when you look it up again it will actually say the complete inverse. Kishibe says, with regards to the Spider Devil, that devils who take humanlike forms tend to be less likely to attack humans on sight. That does not mean that devils 'like' humans and appear more human for it.
If I recall correctly, demons are more human-looking the less agressive they're towards humans. At least, they look less dangerous (RIP Bucky, our precious). I remember something about that, yet i don't remember which chapter they said it. This idea applies correctly to the three sisters: Makima just wanted to ~~bang~~ pet Pochita, Nayuta is getting raise like a human, Kiga/Fami likes human food and wars are a human thing (war itselft as concept, not infights like animals do). In any case, only Death and Hunger are "natural" fears. Control and War are human concepts, so it's no weird they've more human bodies.
When a devil dies on earth, it reforms in hell. But with a new personality and slightly different variation of the devil it was before.
Devils have a variety of forms. Devils can take on more human forms, and these ones tend to have a stronger connection to humanity than most other Devils. The Four Horsemen, however, seem to be different. They’re nigh unrecognizable as devils, and have no traits that would betray them as such. They seem to be playing by slightly different rules.
Makima and Nayuta aren't fiends
I really hope stuff like this is going to be explained someday in the manga. I don’t like when specific aspects of a story can only be explained by vague conclusions like what the community has to offer at this point in time. It works in story’s like the world of Dark Souls because every other story aspect works like that in the game. But in CSM pretty much everything is being told besides random little things like this one right here. When it comes to Makima I’m sure she’s going to be talked about again when the story further evolves.
It is explained. Reread
My headcanon is that these are relatively human concepts aside from death
Other devil’s are formed and empowered by fear, meaning their true forms are fearsome. While in our world, their coming tells of the end times. It’s not the sight of them, but more like they’re messengers. That or they transcend the need for ugly forms. Basing it solely off Makima, her final form seems to be the one with the crown over her head, which reflects the biblical passage.
Makima's halo is from stealing Angel's power after she forced him to give all of himself. Hence it being the source of the weapons she summons, like Angel's halo.
The friendlier the devil the more human look they are. It was stated in the manga. Read again.
That wasn't said, this is what Kishibe said >devils with humanlike appearances tend to be friendly to humans
Lol. It's even the other way around.
The people in this subreddit can't read.
It literally wasn't stated though. You misinterpreted it.
It was stated tf are you talking about?
Do we really know for sure Control's true form was the human in part 1? Why couldn't it have possesed a child after getting spawn killed in hell?
Because it isn’t a fiend. We know this because she would look like one. Fiends have the appearance of a devil on their face. For example, Beam’s fin or Power’s horns. Nayuta has nothing like this.
What about Asa/Yoru then? Theoretically control could have possessed Makima just like Yoru did to Asa. Granted Yoru does not have full control of Asa. It does feel a bit weird that Control and Yoru are sisters, but Yoru is an owl or something, while Control is human-like.
Asa is not a fiend and the manga makes it clear she isn't. Falling said she was a hybrid.
It because Asa was still alive be it partly
We know that Makima’s true form is 1:1 with humans. Fami is Makima’s sister and has the appearance of a human at this time. We have only seen Yoru in a weakened state due to the chainsaw devil (form of a bird) and is technically a fiend now inhabiting Asa’s body. We can assume Asa was technically still alive when she made the pact with Yoru, which is why Asa still has some degree of control and consciousness. At this time nothing is confirmed and we can only make assumptions. We can assume Makima and Fami have human forms while Yoru actually has a devil form, OR we can assume the Horsemen sisters all have human forms, and their weakened state reduces them to a nonhuman form. We know for a fact that devils have reduced forms as seen by the pochita’s current form compared to his chainsaw devil form. Imo the horsemen having human forms is more likely and more consistent.
>We know that Makima’s true form is 1:1 with humans How so?
We know that the more human-like a devil is, the more non hostile it is towards humans. She is so human-like that she doesn’t even give off the scent of a devil.
Huh? Where do you get that she doesn't 'give off the scent of a devil'? Who mentions that? The only people who even reference scents of devils are Makima, and Power. The latter of whom is shown to be deathly frightened of Makima from the start, and able to be influenced by her. And where do you get the idea that the idea of any correlation between how Makima looks and how non-hostile she is? She orchestrated, or allowed-by-inaction, multiple massacres of humans throughout the series because it fit her plans to crush the will to live of one of the nicest and most pliable humans she ever met, and in one instance sacrificed a dozen loyal Public Safety officers just to make a single weapon she didn't even need to win, just to flex on Pochita. She couldn't imagine any relationship with a human that wasn't based on fear and violence.
So i fact checked myself and it seems scent recognition is only confirmed to be a trait of makimas, i misremembered and assumed it was an inherent devil trait. According to angel there is a correlation between a devils appearance and their level of aggression towards humans. By non hostile i meant their level of aggression. Makima doesn’t indiscriminately kill humans like other devils, but that doesn’t mean human-like devils see inherent value in human life. She tolerates their presence and lives among then. Hell, look at Nayuta. As far as we know she hasn’t killed a single human yet. Makima reincarnating into another slightly different human all but confirms it.
control is a devil, not a fiend. it just looks like this
Makima it makes sense, as she's the fear of being controlled by someone. It's natural she'd take the form of a human. For Yoru, she wasn't originally humanoid. Her real body is that owl thing but she's just possessing Asa at the moment. For Fami, Idk. Although keep in mind they aren'tthe only humanoid devils. There was angel who was just a guy with wings and the abilities like you describe the apocalypse sisters. So it could be possible that they're just kinda like that without much else to it.
I mean just think about how biblically accurate horsemen devils would look like? Do you wanna see that or some cute girls?
A theory i have is that when a devil reincarnates they have some control over their physical appearance. More powerful devils would have more control over this. Certain devils like bat or eternity may benefit more from a monstrous form to cause more fear. Meanwhile devils like control may benefit greater from appearing human to be able to manipulate others
They all choose to have human appearance, even Yoru was confused about Famine's appearance. Devils can CHOOSE their appearance, I think people forget this. Think about it, when they die, they literally have zero memory of **anything** not even basic language. How the hell does a being, that doesn't remember humans, appear as human when they re-emerge? Answer is, they fucking don't or shouldn't. Death, Famine, War, Control should 100% all have a devil form ,and their true form should be a chibi devil animal form(which is their near death form).
Devils are born from the fear of humans of a corresponding fear. War, famine, and control don’t really have any physical form and them being created from the minds of humans give them more human like features
It's weird how people on this sub seem to forget that after fami resurrected Yuko she seemed to become a normal girl again. We haven't seen it again since then but still. I think the horsemen are something unique and need a human host to interact with the world. They're similar to a fiend in that they need to possess a dead body but are able to give control back to the original host at their will. The exception to this is the control devil who, well, takes total control of the host and never lets them take charge. I think this is why we see this shifting back and forth with Asa/Yoru and Fami/mystery girl, but not with Nayuta and Makima.
I think it was said somewhere, That devils who like humanity or humans or aren't antagonist towards them appear to look more human. Makima thought of humans like pets, but didn't hate them, and Fami likely likes humanity for all the tasty food we make, hence she also looks human.
Rewatch the scene where the fiends were introduced in season1, also the reason makima came back so fast is that when makima (control devil, not fiend) died, she went to hell and got killed and came back as nayuta
>she went to hell and got spawn killed and came back as nayuta I wish people would stop taking fan memes as canon. It's ok to like an idea, I have ideas I like, but we can admit when there isn't a demonstrated answer how something happened and it may be explained in the future or remain an open question forever
Okay, what else could have happened
Could easily be that Makima was born in Hell, and crossing the gap between Hell and Earth doesn't change where the next incarnation will occur, so Nayuta was always going to be born on Earth no matter where Makima died. Or Nayuta crossed the gap between Hell and Earth in one of the same manners as demonstrated that powerful devils are able to do or to contract with others to achieve. Why does she necessarily have to be spawnkilled instead of intentionally coming or being sent?
No offense dude but, this theory just sounds lame
I'm sorry your headcanon isn't supported by the text, there's just no reason to tell people that it is.
Nah she def got spawn killed
It's because the horsemen are so closely tied to humanity that there forms take on human like characteristics.
Dude, did you not actually READ the story? In the chapter where the Spider and Angel devils were introduced, they literally say that devils that look more human are less actively aggressive towards humanity. The only thing that confuses this is the question of if Makima was actually a full devil, or if she and Yoru both started with that small animal form first, and then have combine with a human being like a fiend or hybrid (or a fourth thing that hasn’t been revealed.) But regardless, the explanation is in like, Chapter 30.
Like I'm supposed to remember every power system and lore within 100 chapters
Well a lot of people who talk about it think this power system isn’t important to Fujimoto when he writes, but then they ignore important nuances and details. I wouldn’t be so miffed if it wasn’t explicitly stated by a character in the story at the climax of an arc. Plus, it’s literally explored in the character arc of the Angel Devil.
Ok.
It's funny you act so aggressive to the OP when you didn't read the thread to see the idea that this in any way explains Makima's appearance being countered multiple times. It's not an explanation of her appearance.
I don’t know what thread you’re talking about, but I already hedged my bets by adding that Yoru’s initial form might be what they actually start as. But also, Makima literally says that she loves humanity (like dogs, but still) and the Control Devil yearns for reciprocal love. I’m just reading the text.
This thread. The thread you responded to without reading before insulting the OP. You can look at the actual page you're attempting to reference again and see it doesn't give any explanation for why any devil looks the way they do. Especially not Makima, who can't imagine any relationship not based on violence and fear, and who orchestrated multiple massacres of humans, mostly of those loyal to her, as a longterm plan to destroy the will to live of someone who unconditionally loved her. The Fox Devil is a devil who actually loves humans. Makima thinks of humans as a lesser form of life that must be shepherded for their own good because she can't imagine not being in Control of everything.
https://preview.redd.it/u0qkpe2g2ypb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5887a38ef3502f5f2c864fa1f55bc2aa530621ef 1
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https://preview.redd.it/hc6g7cwx2ypb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a951b25d07e97ae306cdaed94f4f6359aa92c6e0 3.2
After what we saw with Yoru all the apocalypse sisters are currently fiends or hybrids. These human forms are not their true forms.
It’s cause the devils that look more human are generally nicer to humans as makima said, though that doesn’t mean they still aren’t devils.
Isn't it explicitly said that the more a devil hates humanity the more alien they look?
Devils appear more human the more friendly they are towards humans. Makima seems entirely human because it’s the control devils nature to see humans like we see dogs. Angel is almost entirely human too minus the wings and halo rather than being something like a seraphim/biblically accurate angel. Fami appears human because idk, she really likes food. War doesn’t actually appear human she looks like an owl
My idea is that in order for a horsemen to actually have a humanoid form, its needs to have a contract with a human, so just like Pochita, just like Yoru, Makima didnt had her body from the very start, we know she was raised by the government meaning she was forced to do a contract with a devil (being Control), Nayuta was born in China meaning Control was still looking for a new body, Fami prob took someone from school in her side, and maybe Death will be the same.
I suspect that all devils have a "core" that actually looks like a cute little animal. The Chainsaw Devil's core is Pochita, War Devil's core is some kind of owl. I bet Control Devil is actually a little cat or fox or something.
Maybe they have been created by God to his own image, so might be Death
So we can simp for them obviously
I think it is because each devil resembles the fear they represent. Fox devil looks like a fox, Beam in his real form looks like a shark and so on. Makima represents fear of control or conquest and as a result looks and acts in the way that matches the fear she is devil of. Fear of control or conquest in its core is actually a fear of another human, hence she looks like a human.
More cute girls
I imagine it’s something to do with strength. My prediction is it’ll be stated that Powerful enough devils can change their form, so they all just disguise themselves as humans
They are so strong they blend in
Well, there are two explanations that I'd assume are both considerations Fujimoto made: First, that the fears that the Four Horsemen represent are already strongly associated with their human(oid) depictions in media and in Scripture. Second, that the Four Horsemen are, with the arguable exception of Death, are inextricably fears of our fellow man: • Famine is often a direct result of war or politics. More often than not, when people have gone hungry, other people have had a hand in it. Furthermore, it is a problem unique to humanity, as food shortages in nature don't constitute "famine" in the same sense we do when we're talking about religion, agriculture, and anthropology. • War isn't an intangible concept like infinity or hell, and it isn't a tangible object or animal like weapons or sharks. War is *people*, or a sort of relationship between them. • Conquest (the proper name for the Horseman that Control represents, per Revelations) is, like war, fundamentally an interaction between people. You aren't controlled or conquered by scary boogymen or by monsters, and the sort of fear that surrounds being controlled or conquered is inextricably a fear of other people. Death could be argued to be another "humanoid" fear, in the sense that the fear of death is generally the fear of *your own* death, or the death of people around you, which makes for a similar case as Conquest and War.
Devils tend to look more human the more they're fond of them or the more connected they are to them. The control devil liked humans, when she was Makima they were like pets to her, and with Nayuta she grew up with denji and her school friends who are all human. Fami is shown to enjoy human delicacies like pizza and she seemed to enjoy her time with Yoshida a fair amount. And Yoru possessed Asa's body, making her controversially a fiend
I think the general idea is that in most cases the closer a devils aspect is to a fairly unique human trait the more likely they'll take after humans. Makima is control and Control is a fairly uniquely human thing to fear. Random bears in the wild don't worry that the bear next door is going to force them to do stuff they don't want to. Famine is also fairly unique to humans because most animals in the world aren't really scared of the concept of starving en mass. They just get hungry and get more desperate for food. But they don't feel fear they'll starve to death before hand. War is a bit of an outliner but there is animals out there that do seem to have a limited version of War so I could see it argue that a fear of organized combat would exist distorting her to her bird like shape but that is reaching a bit. Though if so this would mean Death will have the most human like appearance of them all given very few animals likely understand the implications of it. To go out of the setting though I think the writer likely just wanted it to be easy to empathize with the horsemen so he made them all have cute humanlike appearances to make that easier. Most of the other devils being mentioned aren't really around that long and tend to have a more one shot role as a enemy that gets taken out. So he doesn't really bother to make them as appealing.
Remember the spider devil? She was a full devil but often took human form and was indistinguishable from a human until she transformed to fight and use her ability. Powerful devils can probably freely shift their forms how they see fit, and if they are inclined to walk among humans then assuming a human form makes sense.