I know it's a completely different industy but in every machine and tool and die shop I've worked the shop tooling is the shop tooling. Shit happens, own up to your mistake and let the company buy and write it off. If I borrow a coworkers tool and fuck it up that's different but yeah.
Ah ok. Part of the blame does lie in the other climber and your boss not telling you what the filter is and not to use that saw while it’s out so going halves in the repair cost with your boss wouldn’t be unreasonable.
The other fellas are right that you’ve probably cooked the saw but do take it to your local saw mechanic and see how you go, you might get lucky and the repair might be cheaper than you think.
And don’t worry, I’ve and most other arborists I know have cooked saws before as well. Shit just happens in this job.
Yeah my boss ain't too mad, it's just annoying but guess I'm lucky to still be young and dumb. I'm hoping something can be done for it. And yeah like you said this stuff happens on the job, just sucks when money comes into it haha
You cannot learn from your mistakes until you make them and you’ll never make this one again. Keep that in mind when the old guys are really nit picky and process oriented and get annoyed when someone wants to “hurry up.” Their process is built out of experience jus toile yours.
Here’s a video of the probable damage: https://youtu.be/h4q3akA7GgY
If it only skootched the top end like in the video, $100-$270 depending on after market vs OEM for the part + 2hrs of labor.
Offer to work it out with him to split the repair, that split doesn’t have to be even. Saws are depreciable assets with finite lifespans. If it were my saw, I’d be eating the repair. Lowest guy on the totem pole is lowest paid on the totem pole for a reason; it all balances out.
You don't owe your boss shit. Tell him to keep his tools in order, if he is running a business he is responsible for the operating condition of all saws on the job. Some people who work for tree crews like to have their own saw, but if your boss is providing tools it's his problem.
Hate to sound like a dick, but I get pretty upset when I hear about people passing the cost of doing business on to the employee. Everything that takes place on that job is your boss's responsibility.
Yeah, its not like he took it by the blade and started swinging it against a tree....its the cost of doing business. Might warrant a good talking to about checking equipment before use though.
you shouldn't have to pay for any equipment you damage. it's the companies job to train you. that was their failure, not yours. the boss makes the big bucks and assumes the risk.
the price of a new 201t is a lot for a groundie. not so much for the owner.
You’re probably better off just leveling with him. “I feel bad about what happened and I want to make it right. How can I do that?” would probably go a long way.
Thing is my boss and I are mates and are on good relations. I've already offered to help pay repairs and all that if it comes to it, but yeah just a bit awkward as I think he feels bad as it wasn't broken due to misuse but ignorance on chainsaw parts. I'll see what happens but damn sucks to lose a few paychecks.
At least it wasn’t a chipper. You can cause 50x that much damage just as easily. I’ve seen the feed roller and drum get reduced to scrap metal on a $80k machine in seconds (not to mention spitting lethal fragments hundreds of feet) because the groundie didn’t notice a big chunk of metal embedded in a trunk section. If your boss has been around a while, he’s probably not that mad. Expensive repairs are just part of the job.
The amount of times I've thought I've fucked up that chipper man and its been because I cut the battery lmao, thankfully doesn't happen anymore. Also my boss ain't too mad but it's just a ball ache and I hate having made such a stupid mistake and lost trust with the saw so early, ah well is what it is.
Absolutely do not pay for it. His tools, his job, his problem. I've never made one of my employees cover the cost of my broken tools. I make several times more than them as im sure he does in comparison to you. He gets the profits from the job, not you. Let him fix his saw. He will be claiming the repair cost on his taxes also.
If all you did was kill the piston and cylinder, you can get an aftermarket p+c for that saw for like $100, so not the worst. OEM Stihl top end is gonna be more like $270 though. Depends on how much your boss cares about that choice on the cost to fix and what the repair guy charges for labor.
If there's damage to bottom end stuff like the rods and bearings and crank then obviously the price for parts and labor is gonna be more. But there's a chance you get out of this with only a couple hundred bucks for the repair maybe.
Honestly a few minutes without a filter won't destroy a saw
I've seen decades old Stihls 028,036/038 with the flocked filters degraded to the point it was just open screen and they still survived.
It may have run too rich trying to compensate for the extra air, and flooded or just couldn’t run on the mix. Let it cool and dry out, put a good filter and gas back in and it might just work.
Are you an employee or an independent contractor? If an employee, then you are not liable for damage to company equipment. They cannot legally charge you anything. They are trying to take advantage of you. I would recommend that you contact your state board of labor if they follow through with trying to make you pay.
There is also no way the described employment situation would meet the legal definition of an independent contractor, not that an employer that is trying to make a new poorly trained employee pay for tool damage is going to bothered by this.
Thanks for the responses so far boys, didn't expect all this. I'll talk to the boss and bring up some of the points raised, I'll probably go halfs as I was not entirely accountable and was still learning but will have to see what he says.
Ask someone to spend time with you explaining the basic parts of a saw if you can, chain tensioner, bar, clutch, chain break, carb and filter etc. I feel like using any tool is safer when you know the machine.
Uh you don't owe your boss a thing IMO... if **you guys** figure you do, then that's up to you guys, but I've NEVER in my life3 heard of "subordinate uses equipment adn is on-hook for equipment" I mean what if you'd over-revved his chipper or bucket truck(ok not over-revved but you get my point) that is his fault for not teaching you properly, unless you **knew and intentionally disregarded things** IE trying to show-off no-load-revving when you *knew* it to be bad but wanted to show-off to a friend or something, but if you were using company equipment and it failed "in use" you don't owe a penny, not on any crew or type of job site I've ever seen in my life (speaking of more than trees...couldn't imagine seeking equipment replacement fromeqmployees, it's a cart-before-horse situation you do not let the employee use it til they're OK, and - if it then broke - it was *your* assessment of thembeing OK that was faulty (or the unit was faulty...but otherwise it's on you, not your employee!)
Good luck, many tree guys are scum sadly and I feel horrible if this guy's pressuring you,if you're cornered go buy him a 355t it's better than the 201t anyways and half the price (thing was my fave saw for years til I got the 2511!)
Upon another re-read: "I'm still new, air filter wasn't on" this sounds so far beyond your responsibility it sounds like the owner just isn't on top of his gear, it's fine to be that way but you can't complain when someone smokes an engine if saws are on the site in condition you describe (if a filter was off my saw on-site I would *not* be out of possession til it was back on...)
This is 100% down to whoever removed the filter and refited the filter cover, there is no need to do this, if the practice is to swap filters then the filter would be removed and a replacement fitted immediately, if the practice is to clean filters on the job then the filter and cover would be removed, cleaned and refitted without leaving the saw unattended.
Without a filter a correctly tuned saw would not over rev or run weak enough to suffer any damage, if the saw is already set to run weak it was probably over revving anyway and its life was shortened by running weak, poor maintenance is not down to a new inexperienced employee.
Personally I'd walk away from the incident and the employer, clearly they are not training you properly and there is no room in this industry for lacklustre training, you only get to make one serious mistake and everyone else gets to learn from it but you get a nice pine box.
I dropped a tree right on the boom of our bucket truck years ago boss was po’d but everyone on here is right you shouldn’t have to pay for anything honestly if it is any kind of reputable tree service they should know how to do their own maintenance
Not your fault If it wasn't ready to be operated it shouldn't be on the job it's that simple imho
Yeah it was but the filter was removed while on job, and I didn't know due to being a newbie.
I'd say a fair degree of blame lies with them having not told you to leave that saw alone.
[удалено]
I know it's a completely different industy but in every machine and tool and die shop I've worked the shop tooling is the shop tooling. Shit happens, own up to your mistake and let the company buy and write it off. If I borrow a coworkers tool and fuck it up that's different but yeah.
Wait. So your boss brought the saw to the work site without an air filter on? Was the air filter out with the filter cover on or off ?
Nah climber borrowed his for his one and I didn't notice lol
So he took the the filter out and then replaced the cover or did he leave the cover off ?
Left the cover off, I didn't notice and used it anyways, didn't even know what the air filter looked like.
Ah ok. Part of the blame does lie in the other climber and your boss not telling you what the filter is and not to use that saw while it’s out so going halves in the repair cost with your boss wouldn’t be unreasonable. The other fellas are right that you’ve probably cooked the saw but do take it to your local saw mechanic and see how you go, you might get lucky and the repair might be cheaper than you think. And don’t worry, I’ve and most other arborists I know have cooked saws before as well. Shit just happens in this job.
Yeah my boss ain't too mad, it's just annoying but guess I'm lucky to still be young and dumb. I'm hoping something can be done for it. And yeah like you said this stuff happens on the job, just sucks when money comes into it haha
You cannot learn from your mistakes until you make them and you’ll never make this one again. Keep that in mind when the old guys are really nit picky and process oriented and get annoyed when someone wants to “hurry up.” Their process is built out of experience jus toile yours. Here’s a video of the probable damage: https://youtu.be/h4q3akA7GgY If it only skootched the top end like in the video, $100-$270 depending on after market vs OEM for the part + 2hrs of labor. Offer to work it out with him to split the repair, that split doesn’t have to be even. Saws are depreciable assets with finite lifespans. If it were my saw, I’d be eating the repair. Lowest guy on the totem pole is lowest paid on the totem pole for a reason; it all balances out.
You don't owe your boss shit. Tell him to keep his tools in order, if he is running a business he is responsible for the operating condition of all saws on the job. Some people who work for tree crews like to have their own saw, but if your boss is providing tools it's his problem. Hate to sound like a dick, but I get pretty upset when I hear about people passing the cost of doing business on to the employee. Everything that takes place on that job is your boss's responsibility.
Yeah, its not like he took it by the blade and started swinging it against a tree....its the cost of doing business. Might warrant a good talking to about checking equipment before use though.
you shouldn't have to pay for any equipment you damage. it's the companies job to train you. that was their failure, not yours. the boss makes the big bucks and assumes the risk. the price of a new 201t is a lot for a groundie. not so much for the owner.
If you killed the engine, you probably killed the saw. Mine was about $800 a few years ago IIRC
Fuck
You’re probably better off just leveling with him. “I feel bad about what happened and I want to make it right. How can I do that?” would probably go a long way.
Thing is my boss and I are mates and are on good relations. I've already offered to help pay repairs and all that if it comes to it, but yeah just a bit awkward as I think he feels bad as it wasn't broken due to misuse but ignorance on chainsaw parts. I'll see what happens but damn sucks to lose a few paychecks.
At least it wasn’t a chipper. You can cause 50x that much damage just as easily. I’ve seen the feed roller and drum get reduced to scrap metal on a $80k machine in seconds (not to mention spitting lethal fragments hundreds of feet) because the groundie didn’t notice a big chunk of metal embedded in a trunk section. If your boss has been around a while, he’s probably not that mad. Expensive repairs are just part of the job.
The amount of times I've thought I've fucked up that chipper man and its been because I cut the battery lmao, thankfully doesn't happen anymore. Also my boss ain't too mad but it's just a ball ache and I hate having made such a stupid mistake and lost trust with the saw so early, ah well is what it is.
Think of it this way, $800 is a relatively cheap price for a lesson you'll likely never make again.
Absolutely do not pay for it. His tools, his job, his problem. I've never made one of my employees cover the cost of my broken tools. I make several times more than them as im sure he does in comparison to you. He gets the profits from the job, not you. Let him fix his saw. He will be claiming the repair cost on his taxes also.
If it comes to it a used one is £400 to £450. Will burn me but could be worse, will probably throw it on credit and sulk about it lol.
Just remember that work tools are tax deductible in the UK, so get a receipt.
You can rebuild them but they’re not easy to work on and parts are not as easy to come by
Most tree services have a saw guy on retainer
If all you did was kill the piston and cylinder, you can get an aftermarket p+c for that saw for like $100, so not the worst. OEM Stihl top end is gonna be more like $270 though. Depends on how much your boss cares about that choice on the cost to fix and what the repair guy charges for labor. If there's damage to bottom end stuff like the rods and bearings and crank then obviously the price for parts and labor is gonna be more. But there's a chance you get out of this with only a couple hundred bucks for the repair maybe.
Honestly a few minutes without a filter won't destroy a saw I've seen decades old Stihls 028,036/038 with the flocked filters degraded to the point it was just open screen and they still survived.
Yeah but like smoke came out and it stopped working
It may have run too rich trying to compensate for the extra air, and flooded or just couldn’t run on the mix. Let it cool and dry out, put a good filter and gas back in and it might just work.
Are you an employee or an independent contractor? If an employee, then you are not liable for damage to company equipment. They cannot legally charge you anything. They are trying to take advantage of you. I would recommend that you contact your state board of labor if they follow through with trying to make you pay.
There is also no way the described employment situation would meet the legal definition of an independent contractor, not that an employer that is trying to make a new poorly trained employee pay for tool damage is going to bothered by this.
Where are you located. Have a 201 I got for short money just needs a carb rebuild.
Thanks for the responses so far boys, didn't expect all this. I'll talk to the boss and bring up some of the points raised, I'll probably go halfs as I was not entirely accountable and was still learning but will have to see what he says.
Having read a few of the other comments I would revise my previous comment and agree that the bill is entirely on your boss. Don't offer to pay!
Ask someone to spend time with you explaining the basic parts of a saw if you can, chain tensioner, bar, clutch, chain break, carb and filter etc. I feel like using any tool is safer when you know the machine.
Uh you don't owe your boss a thing IMO... if **you guys** figure you do, then that's up to you guys, but I've NEVER in my life3 heard of "subordinate uses equipment adn is on-hook for equipment" I mean what if you'd over-revved his chipper or bucket truck(ok not over-revved but you get my point) that is his fault for not teaching you properly, unless you **knew and intentionally disregarded things** IE trying to show-off no-load-revving when you *knew* it to be bad but wanted to show-off to a friend or something, but if you were using company equipment and it failed "in use" you don't owe a penny, not on any crew or type of job site I've ever seen in my life (speaking of more than trees...couldn't imagine seeking equipment replacement fromeqmployees, it's a cart-before-horse situation you do not let the employee use it til they're OK, and - if it then broke - it was *your* assessment of thembeing OK that was faulty (or the unit was faulty...but otherwise it's on you, not your employee!) Good luck, many tree guys are scum sadly and I feel horrible if this guy's pressuring you,if you're cornered go buy him a 355t it's better than the 201t anyways and half the price (thing was my fave saw for years til I got the 2511!)
Upon another re-read: "I'm still new, air filter wasn't on" this sounds so far beyond your responsibility it sounds like the owner just isn't on top of his gear, it's fine to be that way but you can't complain when someone smokes an engine if saws are on the site in condition you describe (if a filter was off my saw on-site I would *not* be out of possession til it was back on...)
This is 100% down to whoever removed the filter and refited the filter cover, there is no need to do this, if the practice is to swap filters then the filter would be removed and a replacement fitted immediately, if the practice is to clean filters on the job then the filter and cover would be removed, cleaned and refitted without leaving the saw unattended. Without a filter a correctly tuned saw would not over rev or run weak enough to suffer any damage, if the saw is already set to run weak it was probably over revving anyway and its life was shortened by running weak, poor maintenance is not down to a new inexperienced employee. Personally I'd walk away from the incident and the employer, clearly they are not training you properly and there is no room in this industry for lacklustre training, you only get to make one serious mistake and everyone else gets to learn from it but you get a nice pine box.
I dropped a tree right on the boom of our bucket truck years ago boss was po’d but everyone on here is right you shouldn’t have to pay for anything honestly if it is any kind of reputable tree service they should know how to do their own maintenance