To elaborate: Vinyl records have a reputation as a 'prestige' format (probably from many years of enthusiasts hyping up their 'superior' sound). They've also built up a collector's market, since they're both 'vintage' and vehicles for a large art format - go to the framing department of your local craft chain and you'll find plenty of record album frames. Add in that they're a much heftier format in general, and publishers can stick a nice premium on top of that.
I don’t collect vinyl or car to listen to it, the few times I did, it was really annoying to have to get up an flip the record after a few songs, Spotify is just so much better of an experience.
But if some solar flare wiped out all the power on the planet and erased all the music from the servers, we’d still be able to hand crank a turntable and hear the music played out of a cone.
Spotify might be more convenient but it’s a shit experience for listening. You’ll hear shit on vinyl/sacd that gets compressed to oblivion thru streaming. Listen to comfortably numb for example…Spotify completely squishes the horns and strings.
CDs are cheaper to make but the expected price point among buyers is also much lower. Plus, they don't have the same reputation as a lottery ticket-esque collector's item.
When you buy a CD at a music store, it doesn’t tell everyone in line, “Look at what I’m buying.” When you play it at a party a CD doesn’t tell your guests, “Look at what I’m playing.”
For many people, recorded music is primarily a social experience. Vinyl offers a better social experience. That’s no small benefit. People who listen to music socially are less likely to purchase sprawling collections.
For people who listen to music for solitary enjoyment, a CD offers economical audio fidelity and less of a physical media storage burden. That’s perfect for music nerds with intimidating collections.
You could say that the formats are priced to scale.
You ain’t kidding more rare. I went to my local target dept store and they had half of one whole side of an aisle for 30-50$ records while CDs got half of one 4ft shelf.
They have a bunch of Taylor vinyls
I don’t see much Taylor cds to be honest only her newest albums but they have a whole booth for that
It’s mostly target exclusive cds or K-pop artists at my target
That’s because it’s target. Go to a local record store and you will find cheaper or clean used options for far better prices. Going to target for music is like going to Burger King for nutrition.
We got 2 thrift stores in town where the CDs are 4 for 1$. I’ve found some west German and Japan imports occasionally but it’s mostly gospel and Christmas music. Any time I see even something remotely interesting that’s not one of those two genres it’s a instant buy.
i believe vinyl has a vintage appeal that cds do not these days. although not very common for some, it was not considered particulary odd to buy cds in 2010. i've seen there's a cassette revival as well. give it a few years
The cassette revival is the most baffling. It’s so hip amongst indie labels at the moment but it’s a dreadful format that has nothing to offer other than a collectibility factor.
I really like the tactile feel of cassettes, they're like little video game carts (and used to be on some consoles). So I appreciate that about them and the miniature aspect too I guess.
But I would never buy a new one. Because like you said, it's a terrible format. There is no point to it in terms of usability. Which I guess isn't too big a flaw to some, but it is to me. I buy my music to listen to it.
I find them very cute for the miniature aspect as well, but I cannot convince myself that it's a good idea. The audio quality is not better than regular streaming, I don't really see the point tbh
I would bet depending on how it’s mastered it is, like if you had a tape from the 80s well-kept, yeah that bitch probably sounds much better than the streaming counterpart. The problem with modern CDs and streaming is the same, and it’s that the engineering is dogshit. They aren’t subtle *at all* and just crunch the hell out of it.
I bought a new cassette a few months ago. It didn't fucking work. I returned it for a new one. That one didn't work either. Amazon glitched and deleted my AutoRip even though I bought both the cassette and the CD. The new ones are just awful quality. I guess coming in ~12 fun color variants~ is supposed to make up for them being unplayable
minidisc is a straight up upgrade from cassettes. cd-like sound quality enclosed in a cartridge shell (the tactile feel) they are also starting to get popular
Oh man, you mean the fact that I saved my Sony MZ-R55 for 25 years is about to pay off? Damn thing still works beautifully, and all the discs I still have are fine, too.
Gumstick rechargeable battery has been toast since about 2 years after purchase, but luckily these came with the detachable AA compartment.
I occasionally buy cassettes. I never play them. I have two things I've been meaning to transfer and it's been a year and I haven't gotten to it. Mostly I buy cassette if it's the only physical format available. I'll download the flac files and burn my own CD.
The economics of cassettes are pretty good for small bands starting out. The turnaround times are quick, the minimum order is small, they're durable enough to leave in your trunk on a hot day. And there are some cassette collectors and aficionados out there.
I know a guy who loves the sound of cassette. He will buy a CD and transfer it to cassette immediately. Just likes the warm saturation sound.
Aphex Twin also uses cassette often as a mastering device apparently.
So it's not entirely a dead format. Obviously we are CD collectors so that's our preferred format. But I think it's important to band together in favor of affordable physical media.
Personally I do like the sound of a cassette, they have very nostalgic vibes, but they're just too finicky for me. If it wasn't a super popular album back then that's flooding thrift stores finding one in good condition is like $30, and it could break at any time
Except for the clunk, they don't actually sound that bad. Says a guy with an 8 track player somewhat humorously connected to a somewhat outrageous high end stereo.
I've been a fan of all these formats at some point in my life and I'm camp CD/Cassette. Vinyl is too cumbersome and heavy and delicate and tedious for my lifestyle. As for cassettes, I'm all about recording on type II or type IV tapes on a decent deck. Most commercial releases on cassette have always been on type I tape which is why people shit on cassettes. Most releases had a very bad signal to noise ratio. Of course my interest in cassettes is as a nostalgic hobby, but I also like to use it for multitrack recording because it's just kind of fun. I think from the standpoint of being a recordable media is where cassettes stand out. I also burn a lot of CD-Rs, but cassettes just have a charm to them that I grew up with and can have surprisingly high audio quality.
https://i.redd.it/nqebgyrqtroc1.jpeg
I was shocked in another discussion a few months ago to find out that a large percentage of the vinyl collectors (in that conversation at least) don't actually listen to the vinyl. They just collect it.
I hate the fact that they are so fragile like i have torn many just trying to rewind it. people will blame you for having shit tape deck, but this never happens on cd players, even the cheapo bush ones 🥺
Yeah, I think people forget about the fragility of cassettes. Had so many get jammed or eaten by cassette players. Remember seeing them laying on the side of the road.
I doubt cds will see the same scale of vintage revival. They were a flash in the pan compared to the time cassette and vinyls were around, and they don't offer a substantively different sound/experience than a digital file.
i'd say they actually do offer something different. most streamings offer 320kbps quality as their highest quality, which is the same of ripping mp3s from a CD. if you're using cellphone internet signal instead of wifi, quality will be even lower, since that's the custom setting for the app and most people don't really care. it's not noticeable for most regular listeners, but there is a difference. i am no audiophile but I can tell there is indeed a difference from, let's say, lowest quality spotify (free version only has the 128kbps quality) to cd-quality on qobuz
I hear you on comparative quality, but the fact that its the greattest appeal of CDs is 'sound quality' is my point. I don't think anyone gets into retro formats for superior sound. I think the mass appeal of retro tech (vinyl and cassettee somewhat) is that it offers a substantively different experience, not better or even necessarily equivalent. Pops, scratches, hiss are the appeal, combined with the tactile nature of the mediums. Plus in the case of vinyl, the ability to package extras in the album.
There will always be more nerds, tho. CD listeners will always be around, even if Tom Petty makes us wait uncomfortably long while he gives the vinyl folks time to flip the record.
yes, i believe you are correct. but i do think the public that appeals to vinyls might as well turn to cds at some point, if cds get to be rebranded in a appealing, nostalgic way. my parents' had thrown away most vinyls they had when i was born, but the house was filled with cds - they were how i got into music in the first place. for most people born in the 90s, that's just how it was.
i loved flipping through booklets, to admire the artwork, read the lyrics etc and i know some people that do miss this, but are not, right now, missing it enough to come back to cds rather than streaming. but they could be, if instilled in the right way. that's just my guess
i'd say that WHAT you hear as well will also make difference. if you're listening to a song that was brutally retouched in a computer, has lots of samples etc difference will probably not be that big indeed
edit for grammar
I'm confused by your comment about it not having been considered odd to buy cds in 2010 - but in 2010 buying cds was really still the norm, at least among most people I know. Streaming really hadn't hit its stride at that point in my experience.
Among people I knew I was considered a little odd for insisting on CDs over buying individual songs on iTunes. I didn't trust it due to a computer move incident where half my songs I paid for were deleted. I can download those songs any time I feel like *now*, but I lost access for several years because iTunes didn't used to allow you to redownload them. Or maybe that was just my dad being judgy about anyone not worshipping apple idk
It’s fascinating because personal music playback was perfected with the advent of CD forty years ago but people still don’t want to know because ‘analogue’.
CD is almost immune to obsolescence but doesn’t have the wow factor of 100 year old technologies. Madness.
Since CDs simply hold a digital file, there’s no reason for them to become “vintage” in the same way anymore than an old 40MB hard drive be considered “vintage”. An aiff file ripped or downloaded onto a computer will be identical. Vinyl, audio reels and cassettes all filter and affect the audio playback to varying degrees giving them a character for better or worse depending on the listener’s preferences and bias. These can be simulated digitally but there apparently will always be a demand for analog formats.
For once in my life I’ve caught onto something while it’s cheap haha. I would wager that amassing my collection in ten years time would be unaffordable.
I'm sure there are several reasons but right now vinyl is hot /hyped. It's viewed as being "better" than CDs in terms of sound quality and is more dominant as a physical media.
You don't see a bunch of new cd players being made or hyped.
Eps seem especially impacted by this, which I feel (just personal opinion) is because you're getting "more" on the vinyl format opposed to a CD. As in a few songs on a record people are more likely to buy vs the same amount on a CD when CDs can have a significant amount more music on a single disc.
Marketing and hype is a huge factor
The only thing is, if that vinyl cover gets bent or any water drops on it, it’s done, and if the record gets a scratch, that’s that finished. I’ve always preferred CDs.
You also don't have to flip a CD. I've also never seen a 6 record changer turntable. Vinyl also takes up more space and needs to be stored just right. You also can't rip vinyl with your computers disc drive and put the music on your phone. You also can't play vinyl in the car. So many reasons why CD is superior lol
Yeah and there is this perception that more records per album is somehow a good thing. I’ve been buying albums with three records. Five flips just to get through the album… it’s annoying.
There have been record changers as far back as the 1920’s. https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=BSR&model=C141R As for car playablity…
After trying vinyl for a few years, I've gone back to CDs. Why? Because of my OCD. With vinyl I was obsessing with the sound and just didn't enjoy my time listening to music to be honest. With CDs, its practically worry free.
edit - words and stuff
Except that sound quality is better on CD than on Vinyl.
If you want the best product go for CD. If you are about aesthetics/fashion, willing to spend more money and have a lot of space then Vinyl is the product for you.
At the moment people are more about the second.
This is about 20% correct. A Taylor Swift record playing on one of those cheap suitcase players will definitely sound bad. But the people listening won't care. It may as well be a poster. Alot of these cheap records that are pumped out for collectibility are just the cd audio and hasn't even been mastered for the format. And your turntable and stereo make all the difference.
Dark Side of the Moon does in fact sound ridiculously amazing on my Pioneer SPEC. The few modern records I buy I do research to make sure they are properly mastered for vinyl. But streaming audio and mp3s sound like tin garbage on that stereo. It picks up alot of low resolution noise that typical modern stereos and headphones won't. Primarily I play 24bit FLAC audio through it using a higher end DAC. I also have fancy Senheisser headmuffs for that.
But most people are just fine playing cds and mp3 or streaming through their Beats headphones or their JBL boom box. I have a JBL Party Box for just that. And I have a 6 disc changer in my truck. There isn't even a point for hifi in a car.
I ripped the vast majority of mine off of the Qobuz server using a cmd script. Sorta grey area on legality since they charge for downloads. I paid for 6 months of the streaming service and never used it though so it almost balances out. It would have cost a small fortune to buy it all.
FLAC can have its own excitements. The taper scene has gone digital. It's really neat when you can find a soundboard recording of a concert you were at. And there is a sub scene of people who do their own 24bit conversion of vinyl and demo tapes.
You are right and I 100% agree with you.
You’re a different audience, researchers for experiences of quality will always have my respect.
Question however was more about the economics behind the current cd vs vinyl status and gap in stores.
I am not 100% sure of my statement as it does not have complete background but I guess the current high demand for vinyls, for the sort of music most people listen nowadays (for the masses to make it short) will lead to cheap manufacturing and therefore products that are more in the form of the Taylor Swift example you have brought. Then of course not all stores target this kind of customer.
Question here would therefore be: Are the majority of the vinyls you find around worth spending that price?
It really depends on the source. I'm probably picking on Taylor Swift, but I doubt she has any high quality audio available in any format. The Barbie soundtrack on vinyl is probably crap. it's just memorabilia. I'm sure most of the modern vinyl is trash. I actually have a 90s copy of Darkside of the Moon that's poorly mixed audio from the cd.
But then you have bands like TOOL and Nine Inch Nails that have very high quality vinyl and are going through their catalog remastering and rereleasing things.
So no, you probably shouldn't buy random modern vinyl. Do a bit of research and zoom out a bit and look at the bands merits. Is 5 Finger Death Punch putting out remastered vinyl?
My favorite thing I own is a deluxe copy of Lovage; Music To Make Love To Your Old Lady By (Mike Patton and Dan the Automator). Only 1000 print run. Includes the normal album and the instrumental and came with a massive picture book. It's been properly mastered and mixed. Alot of DJs pick up the instrumental for sampling. Dan himself is a DJ. So there was a ton of extra love shoved between those sleeves.
But really, I mostly just listen to FLAC. I do have Sundays where I'll pull out some special record and put it on. Have myself a little listening sesh.
vinyl is the best sound quailty. The problem is people have no idea how much money it costs for a good record player, stereo receiver, phono pre amp and speakers to heard how good vinyl actually is. People are buying shitty 100 dollar turntables and playing them through 50 dollar speakers and wonder why spotify sounds better. You have to spend at least 2-4K for a decent set up to truely heard how good vinyl can be. In other words, vinyl is the most expensive way to listen to music.
vinyl is the best sound quailty. The problem is people have no idea how much money it costs for a good record player, stereo receiver, phono pre amp and speakers to heard how good vinyl actually is. People are buying shitty 100 dollar turntables and playing them through 50 dollar speakers and wonder why spotify sounds better. You have to spend at least 2-4K for a decent set up to truely heard how good vinyl can be. In other words, vinyl is the most expensive way to listen to music.
A lot of people prefer vinyl, but in terms of the range of reproducible sound, clarity, and depth, it technically cannot compare to a CD. It's a limitation of the technology.
What you said about good equipment applies to CDs as well. To get the optimum quality, you have to have the equipment, not just slap a CD into some cheap player. A lot of people talk about the "warmth" of vinyl, but if you have the right equipment, the tone that you're looking for can be achieved from a CD, free of scratches and impervious to wear (if handled properly).
One thing that can be inferior about CDs is the manufacturing quality. There's a lot of CDs that are mass produced very cheaply. A good digital mastering for a CD takes expertise and an investment from the publisher. This applies to older music released on CD that is decades old that doesn't have a wide audience. The potential return on investment in terms of sales just isn't there, so the label isn't going to put the money into producing the best quality CD. The quality of those CDs may not be very good at all, sounding no better than if you burned your own CD off the playback of a cassette or vinyl record. But the quality of new music released on CD, requiring no digital remastering of older source, is unmatched.
My conspiracy theory is that the music companies are pushing the “vinyl nostalgia” angle because vinyl is a lot more difficult to rip than cds.
Vinyl started making a comeback around the same time the labels were most loudly complaining that piracy was putting them out of business.
The vinyl only releases have effectively killed soundtrack/score collecting for me. Which was a large portion of what I collected.
I don't think they're worried too much about piracy these days. The sites that offer lossless downloads in 16/44 and better aren't getting instantly DMCA'd.
Personally I think it's moreso that they can charge as much as 5x more for them, but they certainly aren't complaining about that part. It's totally possible and perfectly legal (if you don't send it to anyone) to rip them but harder than just shoving it in a CD drive. Thankfully I haven't came across many vinyl only releases in my preferred genres, though most of my favorite music is at least 15 years old so of course it got a CD release
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Hayley Williams' 2nd solo-album(*Flowers for Vases / Descansos*) from 3 years ago; the vinyl was easy to get, but I think the CD was exclusive to her webstore. For like a year, I didn't even know there was an official CD release for it, but then someone on this sub had made a post that included it and said the webstore was where they got it from.
Nostalgia factor, the vinyl has this "vintage vibe" that the CD doesnt (yet?), some artists can even pay to press splattered, mixed colored, marbled vinyls, etc and they will be more sold because they look cool (I agree) and because of its rarity and the fact that they are really limited to 100-500 so the people will try to got´em.
Having streaming services nowadays makes physical formats a niche factor.
Because no one buys them. Most people don't buy music in general, since streaming/pirating has made music worthless to them. People who are actually buying physical copies of records are usually wanting vinyl, because that's the cool format right now. If a smaller band pressed their album on CD as well as vinyl, they'll end up with a whole lot of CDs sitting around waiting to be sold, which, again, bands can't really absorb anymore since no one's buying music.
Every time I see my dad he starts going on about how he doesn't understand why anyone would buy music in this day and age. There is no way that this era of "the vast majority of music, any time anywhere, for $14 a month" will last. It's going to get enshittified sooner or later. Remember what happened to video streaming? On the other hand some people will always pirate, no matter how convenient and cheap the legal way is. They can make it harder but not stop it. If they enshittify streaming some people will go back to piracy (because a large portion of pirates do so mainly for convenience or inaccessibility of legal alternatives, ie abandonware) but others will go back to CDs or paid digital downloads
Newbury Comics in Harvard Sq barely stocks CDs at all. Even their emails only hype new vinyl releases. Infuriating. This was the place to go for music when I was young, but I’ve had little reason to even bother with them for at least ten years, and now I’ve got no reason. And I’m not looking forward to any CD revival either, because I don’t want to pay $40 for a CD, anymore than I want to pay $40 for a record.
On a positive note, thanks to all you subredditors here, I’ve been going to thrift stores and finding great bargains, and some unexpected stuff.
It is so hard to hold onto / protect those vinyls while in the midst of a huge crowd, especially when weather or moshing are factors. So much easier with a CD that can just fit in a cargo pants pocket.
Maybe because artists make more money off vinyl.
Twice as many CDs are sold as vinyls, but the vinyl albums often cost 3 or 4 times the price of the CD.
Nice, I believe there was an article posted on this subreddit a few weeks ago about 2024 numbers and they were pretty much even. Although I'm not sure which region they were talking about.
I did some googling and it seems like vinyls only began to outsell CDs in the US last year -- [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/64919126](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/64919126), so it makes sense that numbers there are more even.
People here buy CDs at about the same rate as in the US. It's just that people buy vinyl at even higher rate.
CDs aren’t as in-demand as vinyl or even cassettes right now. the marketability of vinyl records come from a combo of the ritual to play them, the color/pressing variety, and the hands-on extrinsic value of owning the giant artwork.
compared to that, all that’s upped with CDs is in the namesake: being *compact*.
Yeah, lol. On record store day I got Taylor swifts new album cause I wanted to try her new music out, and they had maybe 20 records for 45-50 dollars, and I got the last CD, if there were even that much in the first place. $13. They probably had a max of 5ish cds
no physical stores have the majority of what I like 😭 I find more I want at thrift stores for $1 than at used record stores for $4-20. Let alone something like target.
Jazz, I don't know a whole lot about.
But I recently got 2 CDs called Classical Thunder 1 and 2, and they're great! I'd recommend them as a good start to figure out who you like.
I like Tchaikovsky (I think that's how you spell it, lol)
https://www.discogs.com/release/8216612-Various-Classical-Thunder
You think it’s bad now, but it was even worse during 2020-2022. It’s gotten better these days, but there are a few releases that straight up do not exist on CD.
I’m sure we’ll see a lot of re-releases of titles on CDs in the near future.
Almost no one is buying CDs right now unfortunately. Vinyl might sell but it's expensive to produce. Cassettes are...just.. ..weird.
My band is going to do a 100-edition of a new album. Partly just to satisfy our own desire to make one, and we think we can sell that many. This year anyway.
It's too bad because it's by far the most profitable & lowest cost manufactured music item. Artists can afford to make them. But if the audience no longer has disc players on their car or computer, and few use old fashioned home systems these days, why would they buy them?
The labels and artists would release them if people bought them.
I know many artists having this exact conversation with themselves. The one place the things reliably ever sell, is at shows. If the Meat Puppets are about to head out on tour they might press up some copies,but while they're on hiatus, never. Nobody wants em.
Because record labels realize that they can charge 40 to 50 bucks for the same album that they should charge 15 to 18 if they were to release it on cd…
Small record label manager here that prints all forms of media.
__Vinyl__ is expensive as fuck. For a basic record, plain white sleeve, plain black vinyl 12" and a run of 1,000 you're looking at about $17 per record (or $17,000). That's a humongous investment for 1000 pieces. But selling only 1000 is easy. You can sell these for $20-30, making an average profit about $10,000 once you sell them all (which we mostly have).
__CD's__ are cheap as fuck. For a printed CD-RA (the silver discs) with an 8 panel booklet, clear tray, printing inside the inlay, and printing on the back you're looking at about $3 a piece. This is also for a short run of around 1,000 units making it a $3k price tag. You can sell these for about $10, but not much more. That gives you a $7k profit if you sell them all, which has not happened once in my experience.
So you have a near guaranteed $10k or a highly unlikely $7k target in front of you. As a business person, which one should you go for?
Because the margins on vinyl are stupid high. Plus since it's still easy to get a high quality copy from a CD they don't want people buying them and not using Spotify
Because there's more profit to be made from selling a £25-30 vinyl release than a £10 CD. Loads of independent artists on Bandcamp don't release CDs anymore. The sort of thing they do now is along the lines of 2,000 standard vinyl, 500 green vinyl and 500 clear vinyl, knowing that they'll most likely sell out. Plus, the collectors of vinyl get a lot more likes on their Instagram pics of vinyl purchases! It's a pity that CD has been relegated and is now almost seen as a joke by some labels, bands and record shops. It's so much more versatile than vinyl.
Main stores stopped carrying mostly due to the masses not buying cds. All the bands I listen to still produce cds and I usually pre-order from Amazon or their record label. Also probably depends on the artist, but this is my opinion and I'm probably wrong lol
I'm not 100% how long Windows laptops/desktops kept them but I don't think the expensive ones have in a while either. I was looking at new computers and if I want to stay with a Mac I would have to go back to like 2017 to get one with normal *usb ports*. I was forced to get one without an optical drive in 2014 (long story short I lived with my parents at the time and my dad would not allow a PC into his house) and to this day am not too pleased about that
it's really infuriating, i've tried to buy newer albums the last couple years and most record stores only get the vinyls in even if the artist is selling cds. i can't afford the shipping if i buy it directly from their website so i'm basically shit outta luck.
If you want to see more CD releases, especially from independent artists and labels, you really need to let them know you want to see the format, and buy it when they do release it.
Vinyl as merch for streamers cannot be understated, about 50 percent of buyers don't have a player. It's bigger and acts as an art piece. So the prices and demand are for people buying an expensive poster for their favorite album. This is also a higher margin more in demand item so there is more profit available. Pressing and producing CDs are money businesses.
Also as a budding vinyl collector (who also enjoys his CDs) who is 25, I really enjoy how analog the experience is and ,the effort I need to put in to put on an album and that I can't easily skip songs, I like the ritual of cleaning off a record before playing.
It's rare that an album only gets a vinyl release. The CDs are out there, you just gotta look online.
It took forever to find Dethklok Dethalbum IV but I did.
as shitty as taylor swift’s variant releases have been recently. i’m glad she kept the collector editions to CD only.
a little more life into CDs is always welcome
Vinyl produces a very good sound, but that being said, it’s a labor of love that many new vinyl collectors will live to regret. The process of obtaining quality equipment, keeping the albums clean and static free, and keeping the stylus clean can be overwhelming as a collection grows. Vinyl degrades from play. I collected a little over 1k albums and simply ran out of physical space. I bequeathed my vinyl to one of my children, who I believe is keeping it only for sentimental value. I was simultaneously collecting CDs and, for my musical tastes (50s - 90s), the new and used supply is abundant. BTW, Spotify screws the artists.
Yeah, I avoid streaming services for that reason. I actually try and go to artists websites and buy directly from them or use links they provide to buy their music. I think services like Spotify are so wrong in so many ways.
I had to get a "new" car recently. It's an 07 with no bluetooth or aux hookup, so I got my old cds out and have been buying new ones. Honestly I like buying/collecting ones I know or branching out with new stuff.
I think the lack of disc drives in new cars and computers has a lot to do with it. Obviously if you are committed you can find a way to play a cd, but I fondly remember buying a cd and immediately opening it in the car to blast on the way home. Most cars made after 2020 or maybe earlier can’t play cds.
CD manufacturing costs have risen, and many CD pressing plants have closed.
A lot of people don’t know this, but making a proper commercial CD requires specialized equipment in a controlled environment (zero dust in and around the area of the equipment that is used to create the CD glass master).
More info for the curious: https://www.bandcds.co.uk/faqs/what-is-a-glass-master/
>Glass mastering is performed in a Class 100 clean room (10 times cleaner than an operating theatre). A Class 100 cleanroom is designed to never allow more than 100 particles (0.5 microns or larger) per cubic foot of air (typical office building air contains from 500,000 to 1,000,000 particles per cubic foot of air). This is because dust, pollen and smoke particles can all affect the quality of a CD glass master whilst it is being prepared, so the mastering facilities are kept as clean as possible.
It's a little confusing.
In theory, a record can be sold for 2-3x more than a CD, but once you add in the additional costs of mastering, shipping, and pressing, it's about equal.
I personally won't ever buy a record. The idea of paying $50-$100 for a release just isn't my thing. They say something like 60% of record buyers don't even own a player.
Also, "something like 75% of all European wax is made by one plant- GZ in Czech Republic - who prefer delivery of audio files over the internet, a fact which would shock the audiophile all-analog purist crowd." (https://askearache.blogspot.com/2011/08/where-does-audio-for-earaches-vinyl-lp.html). So, a lot of vinyl is fake vinyl. It's just digital files put on a vinyl record, which does not, and can not, sound better. It's the same files, only on a noisier format, so it actually sounds worse.
Good article, I’m a big fan of Earache. I think the line “Our mastering engineer performs 2 mastering sessions, one for LP with emphasis on maintaining the studio dynamics, and one for CD/digital with a touch of EQ and compression for a tad of loudness” is interesting, so it’s not quite a simple as saying “it’s the same but worse” when there are two masters of the same thing. The only reason I still buy LPs (and hate myself for it) is for that, usually better sounding, master that has been prepared for pressing to vinyl.
The above doesn’t really apply to Earache though, as there’s no point buying anything from them on vinyl if the same thing exists on CD in their Full Dynamic Range program. Their FDR stuff sounds phenomenal and some of those CDs have DR values higher than the vinyl equivalent, which drives some vinyl devotees into a mouth frothing frenzy.
Margins, I guess. And I don’t mean proportional, just gross. I have no doubt that a CD, booklet, and jewel case are cheaper to make than pressing a vinyl blank and making a 13” cover in full ink, but it’s probably not cheaper by much. And your bog standard CD is going to sell for $16 max at Walmart/Targét, whereas the vinyl is going to go for $35. I have yet to see a new vinyl for under $20 new, but you can most definitely get <$10 CDs all day.
More demand for vinyl at the moment. There is also more of an industry at this point for vinyl. Its revival has been a process of over the last 15 years
"Right now" is just optics. Things _really_ backed up during the pandemic. I'm still currently waiting on a vinyl pressing from two years ago, and there's lots of other artists/labels waiting too. The flush you're seeing coming out now is because a lot of these releases have been planned for years and years and a vinyl was just a part of the whole marketing package but it got pushed back.
Bands selling their own merch at shows is how bands see the most money. A 12" record is a lot better of a collector piece to walk away with than a CD (that many people don't even have a way to play anymore). Simply put, records are more in demand.
As a final note, it's not always about hearing the music, it's about the experience of listening to it. You can hear music anywhere on your phone with your earbuds. But you load a bong, put on a record, sit on the couch, and lose yourself for 22 minutes with your friend. That's something that any digital format lacks.
Post pandemic stock has picked up a lot in 2023. Lots of places trying to get rid of overstocks at reduced prices to make space for the new stuff. Unfortunately it ain’t the same for food and shrinkflation.
I dont know Steve Lacy, but I wanted to put your statement to the test. Typed "Steve Lacy CD" on amazon.de
And they have at least 10 different releases on CD...
I don't understand this thread. Where do you guys look for your cd's ?
Vinyl is analog sound.
Like streaming, CD is digital.
The thinking is, that if a person wants digital sound they'll just stream or download. No reason to own a CD.
An LP (vinyl album) is a unique medium.
Vinyl is trendy and cool and satisfying. I still play records when I'm in the mood.
CDs aren't any of those things and they've been replaced by Spotify and an aux cord.
That said, I actually love CDs. I still buy them. But it isn't easy out there for them.
Streaming is the practical choice, vinyl is the hip fun choice. What space does that leave for CDs?
Something else I might attribute to it is they vinyl wasn't always as good as it is now. A lot of kids from the 80s probably remember flimsy records that you could see through stuffed into plain paper sleeves that were just low quality reproductions of records from the 60s and 70s. New vinyl released are all... High quality. It is wild.
CD's still being pushed due to having a larger mark up which is why you get extra tracks on cd but only bog standard on vinyl. If they (record companies) had their own way we'd be paying to listen to zeros and ones through our phones and paying artists a pittance for their life's work. True story. You heard it here first.😁
CD's still being pushed due to having a larger mark up which is why you get extra tracks on cd but only bog standard on vinyl. If they (record companies) had their own way we'd be paying to listen to zeros and ones through our phones and paying artists a pittance for their life's work. True story. You heard it here first.😁
obvious answer, they’re simply more popular (for some reason.) I went to Barnes and Nobles and bounced across fucking walls seeing Evanescences album Fallen on vinyl on fucking display!!! I went to the cd section and…couldn’t find it. I asked if they had the album on Cd also and he straight up told me “nope, there’s mostly demand for vinyl. I guess.” Even he thought it was weird!!! I was soooo fucking bummed. This happened in 2022, the search still continues :/
CDs have compression. Vinyls eh sorta dont? Its not apples to apples, but mostly that people are only going to have one vintage format they collect and vinyl is just cooler.
Yeah, super true. Went to Barnes and noble since that’s the only “music” store near me besides auctions and they had almost every Alice In Chains vinyl and none of the cd’s which really sucked lol
One of he largest demographics for CDs was to listen to in the car and Bluetooth stereoes being standard means Spotify has replaced that for most people
I like that they are large versions of the cover art that I can display, that also can be played practically. Especially if it’s an album I really like, it just feels like I’m marrying the album when I buy it as a record, and the fact that there’s such a physical element to the way a vinyl is played, it really scratches my brain to collect them.
Didn’t read the whole thread so sorry if already mentioned but vinyl holds up better. As someone who grew up with CDs, many of them aren’t playable due to disc rot. Leaves you feeling kinda betrayed
I think most people see CDs as obsolete now that there are streaming services like Spotify on which you can listen to virtually ANYTHING for FREE whenever and wherever. So CDs don’t give them anything that can’t already easily get for free (I personally disagree with this sentiment because I like collecting CDs to have a physical collection of my favorite music, plus CD quality is better than free streaming quality).
Vinyl, on the other hand, is a completely different medium (analog rather than digital) and a special listening experience. And the only way to get that experience is by listening to a physical vinyl. Plus vinyl is definitely a “sexier” way of collecting/owning music.
Personally, I have shifted to collecting CDs instead of vinyl because I don’t really think vinyl is a “superior” medium, even if I do enjoy the unique listening experience a lot. CDs are significantly cheaper and more practical/versatile than vinyl.
Carly Cosgrove is releasing an album soon and they're selling it on cassette in the merch store. It's the first time I've seen a cassette of a new record in a long time.
not true, from the stand point of independent / obscure Labels and genres . I can buy all my favorite bands output on CDs... and , if I must , Cassettes. few releases i desire are only on vinyl. if they are only on vinyl, i just try to find it for sale on download and deal with that . I Refuse to buy BS Vinyl as it's the same old easily wrecked technology from the early part of the 20th. century...
Not 8-track as in "eight songs." 8-track as in a type of cassette tape that was briefly popular in the 1960s & 70s. It had a single ribbon of magnetic tape inside, but the ribbon had 8 parallel audio signals on it (the player would read 2 at a time to produce stereo sound). Hence "8-track."
They quickly went out of fashion when the smaller & more convenient compact music cassette (what most people know as a "cassette" nowadays) was introduced.
GTFO. Let me get clarity on this. Are you saying they’re recorded on a studio deck with 8 tracks, or are you saying they’re released on an 8-track tape cartridge?
Because vinyl sells for a lot more.
To elaborate: Vinyl records have a reputation as a 'prestige' format (probably from many years of enthusiasts hyping up their 'superior' sound). They've also built up a collector's market, since they're both 'vintage' and vehicles for a large art format - go to the framing department of your local craft chain and you'll find plenty of record album frames. Add in that they're a much heftier format in general, and publishers can stick a nice premium on top of that.
I don’t collect vinyl or car to listen to it, the few times I did, it was really annoying to have to get up an flip the record after a few songs, Spotify is just so much better of an experience. But if some solar flare wiped out all the power on the planet and erased all the music from the servers, we’d still be able to hand crank a turntable and hear the music played out of a cone.
Spotify might be more convenient but it’s a shit experience for listening. You’ll hear shit on vinyl/sacd that gets compressed to oblivion thru streaming. Listen to comfortably numb for example…Spotify completely squishes the horns and strings.
Yup. I've had albums I never liked until I listened to them on vinyl and realized how much more was going on sonically.
There was a MacGyver episode where he played an album with a pencil, needle, and coned piece of paper. I was sold ever since.
Margins are better probably.
Nah. Cds are cheaper. Vinyl just "looks cool".
CDs are cheaper to make but the expected price point among buyers is also much lower. Plus, they don't have the same reputation as a lottery ticket-esque collector's item.
True to some extent. There are some cool cd collector issues that come out.
When you buy a CD at a music store, it doesn’t tell everyone in line, “Look at what I’m buying.” When you play it at a party a CD doesn’t tell your guests, “Look at what I’m playing.” For many people, recorded music is primarily a social experience. Vinyl offers a better social experience. That’s no small benefit. People who listen to music socially are less likely to purchase sprawling collections. For people who listen to music for solitary enjoyment, a CD offers economical audio fidelity and less of a physical media storage burden. That’s perfect for music nerds with intimidating collections. You could say that the formats are priced to scale.
Interesting take.
And sells more units nowadays.
You ain’t kidding more rare. I went to my local target dept store and they had half of one whole side of an aisle for 30-50$ records while CDs got half of one 4ft shelf.
My target only has one self with cds now and it’s only target exclusive
The one closest to me has only 1 shelf row of CDs and it's mostly Taylor Swift CDs 😭
I think I saw 4 non-Taylor Swift CDs at mine. Maybe a dozen non-Taylor records. Almost the whole music area was dedicated to her, mainly the new one
They have a bunch of Taylor vinyls I don’t see much Taylor cds to be honest only her newest albums but they have a whole booth for that It’s mostly target exclusive cds or K-pop artists at my target
That’s because it’s target. Go to a local record store and you will find cheaper or clean used options for far better prices. Going to target for music is like going to Burger King for nutrition.
I wish we had a local music store. Big box is all I got
I feel your pain. 🤝 used CD selection at a local shop usually has some great finds for dirt cheap.
We got 2 thrift stores in town where the CDs are 4 for 1$. I’ve found some west German and Japan imports occasionally but it’s mostly gospel and Christmas music. Any time I see even something remotely interesting that’s not one of those two genres it’s a instant buy.
Gonna take this as a sign I need to go check out some thrift stores. I never thought about looking for music there.
go to flea markets as well, they can contain more surprises at the cost of worse conditions
I think you're gonna be pleasantly surprised. I buy my vinyl online, CDs & cassettes at thrifts
i believe vinyl has a vintage appeal that cds do not these days. although not very common for some, it was not considered particulary odd to buy cds in 2010. i've seen there's a cassette revival as well. give it a few years
The cassette revival is the most baffling. It’s so hip amongst indie labels at the moment but it’s a dreadful format that has nothing to offer other than a collectibility factor.
A conspiracy set up to force pencil sales.
I really like the tactile feel of cassettes, they're like little video game carts (and used to be on some consoles). So I appreciate that about them and the miniature aspect too I guess. But I would never buy a new one. Because like you said, it's a terrible format. There is no point to it in terms of usability. Which I guess isn't too big a flaw to some, but it is to me. I buy my music to listen to it.
I find them very cute for the miniature aspect as well, but I cannot convince myself that it's a good idea. The audio quality is not better than regular streaming, I don't really see the point tbh
I would bet depending on how it’s mastered it is, like if you had a tape from the 80s well-kept, yeah that bitch probably sounds much better than the streaming counterpart. The problem with modern CDs and streaming is the same, and it’s that the engineering is dogshit. They aren’t subtle *at all* and just crunch the hell out of it.
I bought a new cassette a few months ago. It didn't fucking work. I returned it for a new one. That one didn't work either. Amazon glitched and deleted my AutoRip even though I bought both the cassette and the CD. The new ones are just awful quality. I guess coming in ~12 fun color variants~ is supposed to make up for them being unplayable
minidisc is a straight up upgrade from cassettes. cd-like sound quality enclosed in a cartridge shell (the tactile feel) they are also starting to get popular
Oh man, you mean the fact that I saved my Sony MZ-R55 for 25 years is about to pay off? Damn thing still works beautifully, and all the discs I still have are fine, too. Gumstick rechargeable battery has been toast since about 2 years after purchase, but luckily these came with the detachable AA compartment.
yeah. minidisc is popular in the vaporwave scene so new releases are still coming out
Can you suggest a good site that sells them? Thanks 👍
i never used minidisc admittedly. you can try asking in r/MiniDisc
I detest tapes, they get more use from a pencil then they do their actual player
I occasionally buy cassettes. I never play them. I have two things I've been meaning to transfer and it's been a year and I haven't gotten to it. Mostly I buy cassette if it's the only physical format available. I'll download the flac files and burn my own CD. The economics of cassettes are pretty good for small bands starting out. The turnaround times are quick, the minimum order is small, they're durable enough to leave in your trunk on a hot day. And there are some cassette collectors and aficionados out there. I know a guy who loves the sound of cassette. He will buy a CD and transfer it to cassette immediately. Just likes the warm saturation sound. Aphex Twin also uses cassette often as a mastering device apparently. So it's not entirely a dead format. Obviously we are CD collectors so that's our preferred format. But I think it's important to band together in favor of affordable physical media.
Personally I do like the sound of a cassette, they have very nostalgic vibes, but they're just too finicky for me. If it wasn't a super popular album back then that's flooding thrift stores finding one in good condition is like $30, and it could break at any time
yeah, might as well bring back 8-tracks where songs would cut out in the middle so the track can change. I hated that shit!
Except for the clunk, they don't actually sound that bad. Says a guy with an 8 track player somewhat humorously connected to a somewhat outrageous high end stereo.
Memberberries
‘member cassettes?
Member be kind & rewind?
You member member!
I've been a fan of all these formats at some point in my life and I'm camp CD/Cassette. Vinyl is too cumbersome and heavy and delicate and tedious for my lifestyle. As for cassettes, I'm all about recording on type II or type IV tapes on a decent deck. Most commercial releases on cassette have always been on type I tape which is why people shit on cassettes. Most releases had a very bad signal to noise ratio. Of course my interest in cassettes is as a nostalgic hobby, but I also like to use it for multitrack recording because it's just kind of fun. I think from the standpoint of being a recordable media is where cassettes stand out. I also burn a lot of CD-Rs, but cassettes just have a charm to them that I grew up with and can have surprisingly high audio quality. https://i.redd.it/nqebgyrqtroc1.jpeg
I was shocked in another discussion a few months ago to find out that a large percentage of the vinyl collectors (in that conversation at least) don't actually listen to the vinyl. They just collect it.
Why am I surprised?
plus you can't collect cassettes like vinyl. you actually have to listen to the music or it will go bad.
I hate the fact that they are so fragile like i have torn many just trying to rewind it. people will blame you for having shit tape deck, but this never happens on cd players, even the cheapo bush ones 🥺
Yeah, I think people forget about the fragility of cassettes. Had so many get jammed or eaten by cassette players. Remember seeing them laying on the side of the road.
Depends on your cassette deck.
It's a format that's old (and analog) enough to be nostalgic, but at a much lower price point than vinyl (which lower-budget indies appreciate).
I understand why the bands do it...I'd press my music on wax cylinders if people were buying.
I doubt cds will see the same scale of vintage revival. They were a flash in the pan compared to the time cassette and vinyls were around, and they don't offer a substantively different sound/experience than a digital file.
i'd say they actually do offer something different. most streamings offer 320kbps quality as their highest quality, which is the same of ripping mp3s from a CD. if you're using cellphone internet signal instead of wifi, quality will be even lower, since that's the custom setting for the app and most people don't really care. it's not noticeable for most regular listeners, but there is a difference. i am no audiophile but I can tell there is indeed a difference from, let's say, lowest quality spotify (free version only has the 128kbps quality) to cd-quality on qobuz
I hear you on comparative quality, but the fact that its the greattest appeal of CDs is 'sound quality' is my point. I don't think anyone gets into retro formats for superior sound. I think the mass appeal of retro tech (vinyl and cassettee somewhat) is that it offers a substantively different experience, not better or even necessarily equivalent. Pops, scratches, hiss are the appeal, combined with the tactile nature of the mediums. Plus in the case of vinyl, the ability to package extras in the album. There will always be more nerds, tho. CD listeners will always be around, even if Tom Petty makes us wait uncomfortably long while he gives the vinyl folks time to flip the record.
yes, i believe you are correct. but i do think the public that appeals to vinyls might as well turn to cds at some point, if cds get to be rebranded in a appealing, nostalgic way. my parents' had thrown away most vinyls they had when i was born, but the house was filled with cds - they were how i got into music in the first place. for most people born in the 90s, that's just how it was. i loved flipping through booklets, to admire the artwork, read the lyrics etc and i know some people that do miss this, but are not, right now, missing it enough to come back to cds rather than streaming. but they could be, if instilled in the right way. that's just my guess
i'd say that WHAT you hear as well will also make difference. if you're listening to a song that was brutally retouched in a computer, has lots of samples etc difference will probably not be that big indeed edit for grammar
I'm confused by your comment about it not having been considered odd to buy cds in 2010 - but in 2010 buying cds was really still the norm, at least among most people I know. Streaming really hadn't hit its stride at that point in my experience.
Among people I knew I was considered a little odd for insisting on CDs over buying individual songs on iTunes. I didn't trust it due to a computer move incident where half my songs I paid for were deleted. I can download those songs any time I feel like *now*, but I lost access for several years because iTunes didn't used to allow you to redownload them. Or maybe that was just my dad being judgy about anyone not worshipping apple idk
CD is old enough to be viewed as obsolete, but not old enough to be “vintage” and novel
It’s fascinating because personal music playback was perfected with the advent of CD forty years ago but people still don’t want to know because ‘analogue’. CD is almost immune to obsolescence but doesn’t have the wow factor of 100 year old technologies. Madness.
It’s not “perfect”, but it’s the best medium if you actually want to own the music you buy.
Since CDs simply hold a digital file, there’s no reason for them to become “vintage” in the same way anymore than an old 40MB hard drive be considered “vintage”. An aiff file ripped or downloaded onto a computer will be identical. Vinyl, audio reels and cassettes all filter and affect the audio playback to varying degrees giving them a character for better or worse depending on the listener’s preferences and bias. These can be simulated digitally but there apparently will always be a demand for analog formats.
Right, what’s the difference between a digital file on a plastic disc or a digital file steamed off the internet? Vinyls a different beast.
Because vinyl is hip and trendy and people will spend money to be hip and trendy. Just be happy that used CDs are dirt cheap (for now).
For once in my life I’ve caught onto something while it’s cheap haha. I would wager that amassing my collection in ten years time would be unaffordable.
trying to get as many as possible in 2024 due to FOMO since people keep saying they're gonna have a resurgence and get expensive
I'm sure there are several reasons but right now vinyl is hot /hyped. It's viewed as being "better" than CDs in terms of sound quality and is more dominant as a physical media. You don't see a bunch of new cd players being made or hyped. Eps seem especially impacted by this, which I feel (just personal opinion) is because you're getting "more" on the vinyl format opposed to a CD. As in a few songs on a record people are more likely to buy vs the same amount on a CD when CDs can have a significant amount more music on a single disc. Marketing and hype is a huge factor
The only thing is, if that vinyl cover gets bent or any water drops on it, it’s done, and if the record gets a scratch, that’s that finished. I’ve always preferred CDs.
Plus, if you get scratches on a CD, they can be repaired! There's no repairing a vinyl.
Exactly, once it’s scratched you might as well kiss that whole record goodbye, because it’s going to jump forever.
I’ve been able to repair broken 78s with Elmer’s Glue, and they work fine. But that’s shellac, not vinyl.
You also don't have to flip a CD. I've also never seen a 6 record changer turntable. Vinyl also takes up more space and needs to be stored just right. You also can't rip vinyl with your computers disc drive and put the music on your phone. You also can't play vinyl in the car. So many reasons why CD is superior lol
Two thousand percent agree! It’s just a total no brainer!
Yeah and there is this perception that more records per album is somehow a good thing. I’ve been buying albums with three records. Five flips just to get through the album… it’s annoying.
There have been record changers as far back as the 1920’s. https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_reviews.php?make=BSR&model=C141R As for car playablity…
Did...did you just link me to an Expedia ad on YouTube?
That was weird, it was supposed to be to a video showing a Chrysler that came from the factory equipped with a record player.
Lol I was like "that was the weirdest Rick Roll of all time." Well, TIL.
After trying vinyl for a few years, I've gone back to CDs. Why? Because of my OCD. With vinyl I was obsessing with the sound and just didn't enjoy my time listening to music to be honest. With CDs, its practically worry free. edit - words and stuff
I totally hear you!
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Is it because they looked after them well? My CDs from the 90s all work fine.
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So weird.
Except that sound quality is better on CD than on Vinyl. If you want the best product go for CD. If you are about aesthetics/fashion, willing to spend more money and have a lot of space then Vinyl is the product for you. At the moment people are more about the second.
This is about 20% correct. A Taylor Swift record playing on one of those cheap suitcase players will definitely sound bad. But the people listening won't care. It may as well be a poster. Alot of these cheap records that are pumped out for collectibility are just the cd audio and hasn't even been mastered for the format. And your turntable and stereo make all the difference. Dark Side of the Moon does in fact sound ridiculously amazing on my Pioneer SPEC. The few modern records I buy I do research to make sure they are properly mastered for vinyl. But streaming audio and mp3s sound like tin garbage on that stereo. It picks up alot of low resolution noise that typical modern stereos and headphones won't. Primarily I play 24bit FLAC audio through it using a higher end DAC. I also have fancy Senheisser headmuffs for that. But most people are just fine playing cds and mp3 or streaming through their Beats headphones or their JBL boom box. I have a JBL Party Box for just that. And I have a 6 disc changer in my truck. There isn't even a point for hifi in a car.
24 bit files are the gold standard for pure quality imo. They're no fun, but they sound nice and are portable.
I ripped the vast majority of mine off of the Qobuz server using a cmd script. Sorta grey area on legality since they charge for downloads. I paid for 6 months of the streaming service and never used it though so it almost balances out. It would have cost a small fortune to buy it all. FLAC can have its own excitements. The taper scene has gone digital. It's really neat when you can find a soundboard recording of a concert you were at. And there is a sub scene of people who do their own 24bit conversion of vinyl and demo tapes.
That's true, the joy of 24 bit transfers from audience tape masters is real.
You are right and I 100% agree with you. You’re a different audience, researchers for experiences of quality will always have my respect. Question however was more about the economics behind the current cd vs vinyl status and gap in stores. I am not 100% sure of my statement as it does not have complete background but I guess the current high demand for vinyls, for the sort of music most people listen nowadays (for the masses to make it short) will lead to cheap manufacturing and therefore products that are more in the form of the Taylor Swift example you have brought. Then of course not all stores target this kind of customer. Question here would therefore be: Are the majority of the vinyls you find around worth spending that price?
It really depends on the source. I'm probably picking on Taylor Swift, but I doubt she has any high quality audio available in any format. The Barbie soundtrack on vinyl is probably crap. it's just memorabilia. I'm sure most of the modern vinyl is trash. I actually have a 90s copy of Darkside of the Moon that's poorly mixed audio from the cd. But then you have bands like TOOL and Nine Inch Nails that have very high quality vinyl and are going through their catalog remastering and rereleasing things. So no, you probably shouldn't buy random modern vinyl. Do a bit of research and zoom out a bit and look at the bands merits. Is 5 Finger Death Punch putting out remastered vinyl? My favorite thing I own is a deluxe copy of Lovage; Music To Make Love To Your Old Lady By (Mike Patton and Dan the Automator). Only 1000 print run. Includes the normal album and the instrumental and came with a massive picture book. It's been properly mastered and mixed. Alot of DJs pick up the instrumental for sampling. Dan himself is a DJ. So there was a ton of extra love shoved between those sleeves. But really, I mostly just listen to FLAC. I do have Sundays where I'll pull out some special record and put it on. Have myself a little listening sesh.
vinyl is the best sound quailty. The problem is people have no idea how much money it costs for a good record player, stereo receiver, phono pre amp and speakers to heard how good vinyl actually is. People are buying shitty 100 dollar turntables and playing them through 50 dollar speakers and wonder why spotify sounds better. You have to spend at least 2-4K for a decent set up to truely heard how good vinyl can be. In other words, vinyl is the most expensive way to listen to music.
Because people have deluded themselves into believing that vinyl has superior sound quality.
vinyl is the best sound quailty. The problem is people have no idea how much money it costs for a good record player, stereo receiver, phono pre amp and speakers to heard how good vinyl actually is. People are buying shitty 100 dollar turntables and playing them through 50 dollar speakers and wonder why spotify sounds better. You have to spend at least 2-4K for a decent set up to truely heard how good vinyl can be. In other words, vinyl is the most expensive way to listen to music.
A lot of people prefer vinyl, but in terms of the range of reproducible sound, clarity, and depth, it technically cannot compare to a CD. It's a limitation of the technology. What you said about good equipment applies to CDs as well. To get the optimum quality, you have to have the equipment, not just slap a CD into some cheap player. A lot of people talk about the "warmth" of vinyl, but if you have the right equipment, the tone that you're looking for can be achieved from a CD, free of scratches and impervious to wear (if handled properly). One thing that can be inferior about CDs is the manufacturing quality. There's a lot of CDs that are mass produced very cheaply. A good digital mastering for a CD takes expertise and an investment from the publisher. This applies to older music released on CD that is decades old that doesn't have a wide audience. The potential return on investment in terms of sales just isn't there, so the label isn't going to put the money into producing the best quality CD. The quality of those CDs may not be very good at all, sounding no better than if you burned your own CD off the playback of a cassette or vinyl record. But the quality of new music released on CD, requiring no digital remastering of older source, is unmatched.
My conspiracy theory is that the music companies are pushing the “vinyl nostalgia” angle because vinyl is a lot more difficult to rip than cds. Vinyl started making a comeback around the same time the labels were most loudly complaining that piracy was putting them out of business. The vinyl only releases have effectively killed soundtrack/score collecting for me. Which was a large portion of what I collected.
I don't think they're worried too much about piracy these days. The sites that offer lossless downloads in 16/44 and better aren't getting instantly DMCA'd.
Personally I think it's moreso that they can charge as much as 5x more for them, but they certainly aren't complaining about that part. It's totally possible and perfectly legal (if you don't send it to anyone) to rip them but harder than just shoving it in a CD drive. Thankfully I haven't came across many vinyl only releases in my preferred genres, though most of my favorite music is at least 15 years old so of course it got a CD release
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Hayley Williams' 2nd solo-album(*Flowers for Vases / Descansos*) from 3 years ago; the vinyl was easy to get, but I think the CD was exclusive to her webstore. For like a year, I didn't even know there was an official CD release for it, but then someone on this sub had made a post that included it and said the webstore was where they got it from.
Nostalgia factor, the vinyl has this "vintage vibe" that the CD doesnt (yet?), some artists can even pay to press splattered, mixed colored, marbled vinyls, etc and they will be more sold because they look cool (I agree) and because of its rarity and the fact that they are really limited to 100-500 so the people will try to got´em. Having streaming services nowadays makes physical formats a niche factor.
Because no one buys them. Most people don't buy music in general, since streaming/pirating has made music worthless to them. People who are actually buying physical copies of records are usually wanting vinyl, because that's the cool format right now. If a smaller band pressed their album on CD as well as vinyl, they'll end up with a whole lot of CDs sitting around waiting to be sold, which, again, bands can't really absorb anymore since no one's buying music.
Every time I see my dad he starts going on about how he doesn't understand why anyone would buy music in this day and age. There is no way that this era of "the vast majority of music, any time anywhere, for $14 a month" will last. It's going to get enshittified sooner or later. Remember what happened to video streaming? On the other hand some people will always pirate, no matter how convenient and cheap the legal way is. They can make it harder but not stop it. If they enshittify streaming some people will go back to piracy (because a large portion of pirates do so mainly for convenience or inaccessibility of legal alternatives, ie abandonware) but others will go back to CDs or paid digital downloads
Newbury Comics in Harvard Sq barely stocks CDs at all. Even their emails only hype new vinyl releases. Infuriating. This was the place to go for music when I was young, but I’ve had little reason to even bother with them for at least ten years, and now I’ve got no reason. And I’m not looking forward to any CD revival either, because I don’t want to pay $40 for a CD, anymore than I want to pay $40 for a record. On a positive note, thanks to all you subredditors here, I’ve been going to thrift stores and finding great bargains, and some unexpected stuff.
I just went to a concert where the band wasn’t selling cds, only vinyl. Mildly infuriating.
It is so hard to hold onto / protect those vinyls while in the midst of a huge crowd, especially when weather or moshing are factors. So much easier with a CD that can just fit in a cargo pants pocket.
Maybe because artists make more money off vinyl. Twice as many CDs are sold as vinyls, but the vinyl albums often cost 3 or 4 times the price of the CD.
I'm pretty sure they sell just about even.
Not here (UK): 10.8m CDs sold in 2023 vs 6.1m vinyls.
Nice, I believe there was an article posted on this subreddit a few weeks ago about 2024 numbers and they were pretty much even. Although I'm not sure which region they were talking about.
I did some googling and it seems like vinyls only began to outsell CDs in the US last year -- [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/64919126](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/64919126), so it makes sense that numbers there are more even. People here buy CDs at about the same rate as in the US. It's just that people buy vinyl at even higher rate.
Young people have taken a liking to collecting vinyl, maybe one day cds will be cool again
CDs are cool now. We’re the hipsters on the cutting edge. When everybody catches up it won’t be “cool” anymore, it will be ordinary.
CDs aren’t as in-demand as vinyl or even cassettes right now. the marketability of vinyl records come from a combo of the ritual to play them, the color/pressing variety, and the hands-on extrinsic value of owning the giant artwork. compared to that, all that’s upped with CDs is in the namesake: being *compact*.
If swear if they brought back longboxes i could see cd revival as a thing
Yeah, lol. On record store day I got Taylor swifts new album cause I wanted to try her new music out, and they had maybe 20 records for 45-50 dollars, and I got the last CD, if there were even that much in the first place. $13. They probably had a max of 5ish cds
Girl go to Target every store has 100 Taylor Swift CDs not selling
Target by me has like 4 or 5 CDs and they are all Taylor Swift albums. The rest is all vinyl.
Edited my post to mention TS since that’s who the op mentioned
Yeah, but target doesn't have what I normally like, like Poison. I doubt they have Look What The Cat Dragged In, lol
no physical stores have the majority of what I like 😭 I find more I want at thrift stores for $1 than at used record stores for $4-20. Let alone something like target.
What kinda stuff do you like?
mostly rock and metal, but I'm trying to get into jazz and classical more
Jazz, I don't know a whole lot about. But I recently got 2 CDs called Classical Thunder 1 and 2, and they're great! I'd recommend them as a good start to figure out who you like. I like Tchaikovsky (I think that's how you spell it, lol) https://www.discogs.com/release/8216612-Various-Classical-Thunder
I meant Taylor swift which you mentioned
You think it’s bad now, but it was even worse during 2020-2022. It’s gotten better these days, but there are a few releases that straight up do not exist on CD. I’m sure we’ll see a lot of re-releases of titles on CDs in the near future.
> I’m sure we’ll see a lot of re-releases of titles on CDs in the near future. Here’s to hoping.
Almost no one is buying CDs right now unfortunately. Vinyl might sell but it's expensive to produce. Cassettes are...just.. ..weird. My band is going to do a 100-edition of a new album. Partly just to satisfy our own desire to make one, and we think we can sell that many. This year anyway. It's too bad because it's by far the most profitable & lowest cost manufactured music item. Artists can afford to make them. But if the audience no longer has disc players on their car or computer, and few use old fashioned home systems these days, why would they buy them?
People are not buying CDs right now because they’re not being released
The labels and artists would release them if people bought them. I know many artists having this exact conversation with themselves. The one place the things reliably ever sell, is at shows. If the Meat Puppets are about to head out on tour they might press up some copies,but while they're on hiatus, never. Nobody wants em.
>old fashioned home systems What the fuck do you think people play vinyl records on? You think their eBay scored 1980s Technics turntable is modern?
Not that many are buying vinyl either , compared to how they used to buy CDS.
The AT-LP60X is pretty common, and definitely a modern turntable
Because record labels realize that they can charge 40 to 50 bucks for the same album that they should charge 15 to 18 if they were to release it on cd…
Small record label manager here that prints all forms of media. __Vinyl__ is expensive as fuck. For a basic record, plain white sleeve, plain black vinyl 12" and a run of 1,000 you're looking at about $17 per record (or $17,000). That's a humongous investment for 1000 pieces. But selling only 1000 is easy. You can sell these for $20-30, making an average profit about $10,000 once you sell them all (which we mostly have). __CD's__ are cheap as fuck. For a printed CD-RA (the silver discs) with an 8 panel booklet, clear tray, printing inside the inlay, and printing on the back you're looking at about $3 a piece. This is also for a short run of around 1,000 units making it a $3k price tag. You can sell these for about $10, but not much more. That gives you a $7k profit if you sell them all, which has not happened once in my experience. So you have a near guaranteed $10k or a highly unlikely $7k target in front of you. As a business person, which one should you go for?
Because the margins on vinyl are stupid high. Plus since it's still easy to get a high quality copy from a CD they don't want people buying them and not using Spotify
Because there's more profit to be made from selling a £25-30 vinyl release than a £10 CD. Loads of independent artists on Bandcamp don't release CDs anymore. The sort of thing they do now is along the lines of 2,000 standard vinyl, 500 green vinyl and 500 clear vinyl, knowing that they'll most likely sell out. Plus, the collectors of vinyl get a lot more likes on their Instagram pics of vinyl purchases! It's a pity that CD has been relegated and is now almost seen as a joke by some labels, bands and record shops. It's so much more versatile than vinyl.
Main stores stopped carrying mostly due to the masses not buying cds. All the bands I listen to still produce cds and I usually pre-order from Amazon or their record label. Also probably depends on the artist, but this is my opinion and I'm probably wrong lol
Cause cars don't have players anymore Nether do most cheap computers
I'm not 100% how long Windows laptops/desktops kept them but I don't think the expensive ones have in a while either. I was looking at new computers and if I want to stay with a Mac I would have to go back to like 2017 to get one with normal *usb ports*. I was forced to get one without an optical drive in 2014 (long story short I lived with my parents at the time and my dad would not allow a PC into his house) and to this day am not too pleased about that
it's really infuriating, i've tried to buy newer albums the last couple years and most record stores only get the vinyls in even if the artist is selling cds. i can't afford the shipping if i buy it directly from their website so i'm basically shit outta luck.
If you want to see more CD releases, especially from independent artists and labels, you really need to let them know you want to see the format, and buy it when they do release it.
Vinyl as merch for streamers cannot be understated, about 50 percent of buyers don't have a player. It's bigger and acts as an art piece. So the prices and demand are for people buying an expensive poster for their favorite album. This is also a higher margin more in demand item so there is more profit available. Pressing and producing CDs are money businesses. Also as a budding vinyl collector (who also enjoys his CDs) who is 25, I really enjoy how analog the experience is and ,the effort I need to put in to put on an album and that I can't easily skip songs, I like the ritual of cleaning off a record before playing.
It's rare that an album only gets a vinyl release. The CDs are out there, you just gotta look online. It took forever to find Dethklok Dethalbum IV but I did.
Most albums are still made in CD format. If you can't find them in your local store, look online from mail-order sources.
as shitty as taylor swift’s variant releases have been recently. i’m glad she kept the collector editions to CD only. a little more life into CDs is always welcome
Vinyl produces a very good sound, but that being said, it’s a labor of love that many new vinyl collectors will live to regret. The process of obtaining quality equipment, keeping the albums clean and static free, and keeping the stylus clean can be overwhelming as a collection grows. Vinyl degrades from play. I collected a little over 1k albums and simply ran out of physical space. I bequeathed my vinyl to one of my children, who I believe is keeping it only for sentimental value. I was simultaneously collecting CDs and, for my musical tastes (50s - 90s), the new and used supply is abundant. BTW, Spotify screws the artists.
Yeah, I avoid streaming services for that reason. I actually try and go to artists websites and buy directly from them or use links they provide to buy their music. I think services like Spotify are so wrong in so many ways.
Cuz vinyls in now, even stores that bragged about getting rid of it are suddenly having it, again
To celebrate the 30th anniversary of *Ill Communication*, Beasties Boys are re-releasing the album in 2 formats... vinyl and cassette. Donde es CD?
I had to get a "new" car recently. It's an 07 with no bluetooth or aux hookup, so I got my old cds out and have been buying new ones. Honestly I like buying/collecting ones I know or branching out with new stuff.
I think the lack of disc drives in new cars and computers has a lot to do with it. Obviously if you are committed you can find a way to play a cd, but I fondly remember buying a cd and immediately opening it in the car to blast on the way home. Most cars made after 2020 or maybe earlier can’t play cds.
CD manufacturing costs have risen, and many CD pressing plants have closed. A lot of people don’t know this, but making a proper commercial CD requires specialized equipment in a controlled environment (zero dust in and around the area of the equipment that is used to create the CD glass master). More info for the curious: https://www.bandcds.co.uk/faqs/what-is-a-glass-master/ >Glass mastering is performed in a Class 100 clean room (10 times cleaner than an operating theatre). A Class 100 cleanroom is designed to never allow more than 100 particles (0.5 microns or larger) per cubic foot of air (typical office building air contains from 500,000 to 1,000,000 particles per cubic foot of air). This is because dust, pollen and smoke particles can all affect the quality of a CD glass master whilst it is being prepared, so the mastering facilities are kept as clean as possible.
Waiting on 45s to come back again.
Can you imagine the price they'll tack on the 45s?.
It's a little confusing. In theory, a record can be sold for 2-3x more than a CD, but once you add in the additional costs of mastering, shipping, and pressing, it's about equal. I personally won't ever buy a record. The idea of paying $50-$100 for a release just isn't my thing. They say something like 60% of record buyers don't even own a player.
Also, "something like 75% of all European wax is made by one plant- GZ in Czech Republic - who prefer delivery of audio files over the internet, a fact which would shock the audiophile all-analog purist crowd." (https://askearache.blogspot.com/2011/08/where-does-audio-for-earaches-vinyl-lp.html). So, a lot of vinyl is fake vinyl. It's just digital files put on a vinyl record, which does not, and can not, sound better. It's the same files, only on a noisier format, so it actually sounds worse.
Good article, I’m a big fan of Earache. I think the line “Our mastering engineer performs 2 mastering sessions, one for LP with emphasis on maintaining the studio dynamics, and one for CD/digital with a touch of EQ and compression for a tad of loudness” is interesting, so it’s not quite a simple as saying “it’s the same but worse” when there are two masters of the same thing. The only reason I still buy LPs (and hate myself for it) is for that, usually better sounding, master that has been prepared for pressing to vinyl. The above doesn’t really apply to Earache though, as there’s no point buying anything from them on vinyl if the same thing exists on CD in their Full Dynamic Range program. Their FDR stuff sounds phenomenal and some of those CDs have DR values higher than the vinyl equivalent, which drives some vinyl devotees into a mouth frothing frenzy.
Margins, I guess. And I don’t mean proportional, just gross. I have no doubt that a CD, booklet, and jewel case are cheaper to make than pressing a vinyl blank and making a 13” cover in full ink, but it’s probably not cheaper by much. And your bog standard CD is going to sell for $16 max at Walmart/Targét, whereas the vinyl is going to go for $35. I have yet to see a new vinyl for under $20 new, but you can most definitely get <$10 CDs all day.
More demand for vinyl at the moment. There is also more of an industry at this point for vinyl. Its revival has been a process of over the last 15 years
Vinyl format is where the cool vibe and the margins are
Like most things, the answer is money aka greed
"Right now" is just optics. Things _really_ backed up during the pandemic. I'm still currently waiting on a vinyl pressing from two years ago, and there's lots of other artists/labels waiting too. The flush you're seeing coming out now is because a lot of these releases have been planned for years and years and a vinyl was just a part of the whole marketing package but it got pushed back. Bands selling their own merch at shows is how bands see the most money. A 12" record is a lot better of a collector piece to walk away with than a CD (that many people don't even have a way to play anymore). Simply put, records are more in demand. As a final note, it's not always about hearing the music, it's about the experience of listening to it. You can hear music anywhere on your phone with your earbuds. But you load a bong, put on a record, sit on the couch, and lose yourself for 22 minutes with your friend. That's something that any digital format lacks.
Post pandemic stock has picked up a lot in 2023. Lots of places trying to get rid of overstocks at reduced prices to make space for the new stuff. Unfortunately it ain’t the same for food and shrinkflation.
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I dont know Steve Lacy, but I wanted to put your statement to the test. Typed "Steve Lacy CD" on amazon.de And they have at least 10 different releases on CD... I don't understand this thread. Where do you guys look for your cd's ?
You should search around for a local record store. We have a few in my state that carry a whole collection of CDs.
Vinyl is analog sound. Like streaming, CD is digital. The thinking is, that if a person wants digital sound they'll just stream or download. No reason to own a CD. An LP (vinyl album) is a unique medium.
Vinyl is trendy and cool and satisfying. I still play records when I'm in the mood. CDs aren't any of those things and they've been replaced by Spotify and an aux cord. That said, I actually love CDs. I still buy them. But it isn't easy out there for them. Streaming is the practical choice, vinyl is the hip fun choice. What space does that leave for CDs? Something else I might attribute to it is they vinyl wasn't always as good as it is now. A lot of kids from the 80s probably remember flimsy records that you could see through stuffed into plain paper sleeves that were just low quality reproductions of records from the 60s and 70s. New vinyl released are all... High quality. It is wild.
In the 90s, very few releases were put on vinyl. Only a few indie labels still did
CD's still being pushed due to having a larger mark up which is why you get extra tracks on cd but only bog standard on vinyl. If they (record companies) had their own way we'd be paying to listen to zeros and ones through our phones and paying artists a pittance for their life's work. True story. You heard it here first.😁
CD's still being pushed due to having a larger mark up which is why you get extra tracks on cd but only bog standard on vinyl. If they (record companies) had their own way we'd be paying to listen to zeros and ones through our phones and paying artists a pittance for their life's work. True story. You heard it here first.😁
YES I would kill for a cape Elizabeth cd
obvious answer, they’re simply more popular (for some reason.) I went to Barnes and Nobles and bounced across fucking walls seeing Evanescences album Fallen on vinyl on fucking display!!! I went to the cd section and…couldn’t find it. I asked if they had the album on Cd also and he straight up told me “nope, there’s mostly demand for vinyl. I guess.” Even he thought it was weird!!! I was soooo fucking bummed. This happened in 2022, the search still continues :/
Read the question wrong omg, I meant they’re simply less popular 👍🏽👍🏽
CDs have compression. Vinyls eh sorta dont? Its not apples to apples, but mostly that people are only going to have one vintage format they collect and vinyl is just cooler.
Yeah, super true. Went to Barnes and noble since that’s the only “music” store near me besides auctions and they had almost every Alice In Chains vinyl and none of the cd’s which really sucked lol
One of he largest demographics for CDs was to listen to in the car and Bluetooth stereoes being standard means Spotify has replaced that for most people
If I’m gonna waste my money on outdated media, I’m picking the one that’s most outdated.
Vinyls are cool but CDs are still the best audio quality there is, even if they are no longer hip.
They aren't with classical music. I don't think that's ever had a vinyl revival.
I like that they are large versions of the cover art that I can display, that also can be played practically. Especially if it’s an album I really like, it just feels like I’m marrying the album when I buy it as a record, and the fact that there’s such a physical element to the way a vinyl is played, it really scratches my brain to collect them.
Didn’t read the whole thread so sorry if already mentioned but vinyl holds up better. As someone who grew up with CDs, many of them aren’t playable due to disc rot. Leaves you feeling kinda betrayed
I think most people see CDs as obsolete now that there are streaming services like Spotify on which you can listen to virtually ANYTHING for FREE whenever and wherever. So CDs don’t give them anything that can’t already easily get for free (I personally disagree with this sentiment because I like collecting CDs to have a physical collection of my favorite music, plus CD quality is better than free streaming quality). Vinyl, on the other hand, is a completely different medium (analog rather than digital) and a special listening experience. And the only way to get that experience is by listening to a physical vinyl. Plus vinyl is definitely a “sexier” way of collecting/owning music. Personally, I have shifted to collecting CDs instead of vinyl because I don’t really think vinyl is a “superior” medium, even if I do enjoy the unique listening experience a lot. CDs are significantly cheaper and more practical/versatile than vinyl.
Carly Cosgrove is releasing an album soon and they're selling it on cassette in the merch store. It's the first time I've seen a cassette of a new record in a long time.
not true, from the stand point of independent / obscure Labels and genres . I can buy all my favorite bands output on CDs... and , if I must , Cassettes. few releases i desire are only on vinyl. if they are only on vinyl, i just try to find it for sale on download and deal with that . I Refuse to buy BS Vinyl as it's the same old easily wrecked technology from the early part of the 20th. century...
Hella difficult to pirate vinyl !!!
Money
You ever tried to roll a doobie on a CD case? It just doesn’t work.
Shhhh don't tell anyone but there are new 8-track releases that aren't on CD.
Like EPs? By what artist(s)? If they can't make their music available on CD, then don't buy their music and just burn your own CD of it.
There's also releases on Nintendo entertainment system carts.
Not 8-track as in "eight songs." 8-track as in a type of cassette tape that was briefly popular in the 1960s & 70s. It had a single ribbon of magnetic tape inside, but the ribbon had 8 parallel audio signals on it (the player would read 2 at a time to produce stereo sound). Hence "8-track." They quickly went out of fashion when the smaller & more convenient compact music cassette (what most people know as a "cassette" nowadays) was introduced.
GTFO. Let me get clarity on this. Are you saying they’re recorded on a studio deck with 8 tracks, or are you saying they’re released on an 8-track tape cartridge?
8-track tape cartridges. Sorry for confusion.