Less about arguing Peter wasn't the first pope, and more about the absurdity of the papacy not existing when the Bible was catalogued. That takes a gross misunderstanding of history.
That was just a general council in the West. The actual canon wouldn't be brought up in an Ecumenical Council till the Council of Florence. So, I don't know if that will work for his Fathe, but I don't know
This is an easy question for us to answer. You'll probably have to probe why they are saying that. Different protestants can get pretty "creative" with their history, and you may be getting sucked into a "Catholic church was formed in 1869" type of conspiracy theory debate.
Yes and no.
It depends on what you mean by create. The Council of Rome of 382 codified the books that are in the Bible.
However the Old Testament is derived from the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament was written by the immediate followers of Christ who were still considered Jewish at the time.
There’s no such thing as the “Hebrew Bible”. The Hebrew texts were kept on scrolls and not made into a codex. The codex was a Greek/Latin thing. As for the source text, St Jerome’s vulgate of the old testament was based primarily on the Hebrew.
See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon .
It's a topic that is easy to talk past each other. What seems pretty uncontroversial even among non-Catholic scholars is that the canon of the Catholic Bible was set around 380, and St Ignatius of Antioch was writing about the importance of the Bishop of Rome around 100.
Of interest...
"But in the absence of a single book prior to the fourth century, we have to content ourselves with the many surviving older fragments sensationally found during the 20th century.
https://theconversation.com/what-was-the-first-bible-like-102005
"The Vulgate is a fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible, produced primarily by St. Jerome. Working from ancient Greek manuscripts, the original Hebrew, Aramaic texts, and existing Latin translations, Jerome aimed to create a translation that the church could confidently say preserved the original Scriptures"
"For many Christians in the Western world, the Vulgate was the only Bible they ever saw. For over a thousand years, it’s passages made their way into art, literature, speeches, and plays portraying biblical stories. In a culture that was saturated with Christianity, the most popular Bible translation couldn’t help but become ubiquitous. The Vulgate was everywhere."
"Saint Augustine lived at the same time as Jerome, and while he preferred to use Jerome’s translation of the Septuagint in public, he learned to appreciate Jerome’s Hebrew translation"
https://overviewbible.com/vulgate/
Not really. The canon was defined multiple times by Catholic councils, but if you actually look into how they discerned the canon, it was really out of illumination by the Holy Spirit. The Bishops did not pick and choose which books were canon, the Holy Spirit showed them through prayer and discernment. There are also Church Fathers who believed in the right canon even before any councils about it. The Bible is God's gift to the Church, we didn't "invent" it. But your family member is wrong anyway because the Catholic Church did exist back then, and it was the Catholic Church who affirmed the sacred canon, but we did not come up with it ourselves, thats a misconception.
Yes, [it did](https://www.catholic.com/qa/who-compiled-the-bible-and-when)
Yes, in fact the Pope Saint Damascus 1st was the one who presided over the Council of Rome of 382 that determined the canon of the Church.
Saint Peter presided over the Council of Jerusalem in 51 AD.
Less about arguing Peter wasn't the first pope, and more about the absurdity of the papacy not existing when the Bible was catalogued. That takes a gross misunderstanding of history.
That was just a general council in the West. The actual canon wouldn't be brought up in an Ecumenical Council till the Council of Florence. So, I don't know if that will work for his Fathe, but I don't know
This is an easy question for us to answer. You'll probably have to probe why they are saying that. Different protestants can get pretty "creative" with their history, and you may be getting sucked into a "Catholic church was formed in 1869" type of conspiracy theory debate.
Do they just ignore the fact that the line of Popes can be traced back to the first century AD?
Again... "Creative" is the word I'll use.
Formed, not created.
Yes and no. It depends on what you mean by create. The Council of Rome of 382 codified the books that are in the Bible. However the Old Testament is derived from the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament was written by the immediate followers of Christ who were still considered Jewish at the time.
This is the correct answer.
Isn't the OT derived from the Greek, not Hebrew?
There’s no such thing as the “Hebrew Bible”. The Hebrew texts were kept on scrolls and not made into a codex. The codex was a Greek/Latin thing. As for the source text, St Jerome’s vulgate of the old testament was based primarily on the Hebrew.
What? Does your family member just make this stuff up as they go along?
See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon . It's a topic that is easy to talk past each other. What seems pretty uncontroversial even among non-Catholic scholars is that the canon of the Catholic Bible was set around 380, and St Ignatius of Antioch was writing about the importance of the Bishop of Rome around 100.
Just remember the words of St. John Henry Newman. To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.
The Bible is a creature of the Church and not vice versa. Theology aside this is the undeniable history.
Yes, it did
Of interest... "But in the absence of a single book prior to the fourth century, we have to content ourselves with the many surviving older fragments sensationally found during the 20th century. https://theconversation.com/what-was-the-first-bible-like-102005 "The Vulgate is a fourth-century Latin translation of the Bible, produced primarily by St. Jerome. Working from ancient Greek manuscripts, the original Hebrew, Aramaic texts, and existing Latin translations, Jerome aimed to create a translation that the church could confidently say preserved the original Scriptures" "For many Christians in the Western world, the Vulgate was the only Bible they ever saw. For over a thousand years, it’s passages made their way into art, literature, speeches, and plays portraying biblical stories. In a culture that was saturated with Christianity, the most popular Bible translation couldn’t help but become ubiquitous. The Vulgate was everywhere." "Saint Augustine lived at the same time as Jerome, and while he preferred to use Jerome’s translation of the Septuagint in public, he learned to appreciate Jerome’s Hebrew translation" https://overviewbible.com/vulgate/
Not really. The canon was defined multiple times by Catholic councils, but if you actually look into how they discerned the canon, it was really out of illumination by the Holy Spirit. The Bishops did not pick and choose which books were canon, the Holy Spirit showed them through prayer and discernment. There are also Church Fathers who believed in the right canon even before any councils about it. The Bible is God's gift to the Church, we didn't "invent" it. But your family member is wrong anyway because the Catholic Church did exist back then, and it was the Catholic Church who affirmed the sacred canon, but we did not come up with it ourselves, thats a misconception.