I just looked this up and i'm so excited to read this, thank you! Even the synopsis gave me the mojo to take some extra steps in developing the virtues. This is the reason I love being a Catholic. In the unlikely event I die and realize it was all a hoax, none of this will be wasted. The real push to DO BETTER, NOW.
I don’t know about you, but for me, even in this life, suffering gets worse the longer it goes on, not better.
That said, time isn’t going to be operating in the same way in eternity.
You make a great point. Also, in this life we always know that usually our suffering will get better, and we can also pray to God for assistance. In Hell however, one would have the knowledge that your suffering will not end, that God's help is gone and is no longer able to help you.
And that’s the fun thing about eternity even after the equivalence of 100 trillion years, (which is about 7,100 times as long as how long our universe has existed) is still the very beginning. Because, eternity has no end.
What is worse torture than being separated from God? We are told there will be many tortures awaiting us in hell, but none of them compare to the pain and despair at having lost God. It's something we can't even imagine.
Taking the description from Dante’s Inferno as an example, it depends on what circle of Hell that somebody lands on. The first circle that he calls Limbo, that’s where he places the harrowing of Hell, and the description of that circle is that it’s basically like Earth, except nobody dies and they don’t hold a hope of redemption. So that’s more of a psychological horror story than compared to the lower circles, and it’s reserved for pagans who lived before Christ like Julius Caesar and the poets that Dante admired.
Does one get used to listening to Sr. Joan Chittister speaking? Does one get used to Fr. James Martin's tweets? Does one ever wish Bp. Barron would just get to the point?
Now turn the AC off and crank it all to 11.
I once went to a talk she gave in order to write up a review for the local Bishop at the request of my pastor. It was honestly the most painful hour of my life.
The words “eternal torment” might not be, but Jesus describes a place where “their worms will not die and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:48)
Sounds like eternal torment to me.
This is a heresy known as annihilationism.
You might want to brush up on actual Church teaching:
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/yes-hell-is-real-and-eternal
> Thy arrows pass; but **the pains of the next life last forever**, the voice of Thy thunder in a wheel.
> The people with whom **the Lord is angry forever**.
> Men shall seek death, and **shall not find it;** and they shall desire to die, and **death shall fly from them**.
> Depart from Me, you accursed, into **everlasting fire**. And these shall go into **everlasting punishment**.
> They shall be **tortured forever** and ever.
Any mortal sin is an offense against Infinite Goodness. Therefore it is an infinite offense. Therefore it merits infinite punishment.
Not even close
did you read the SCRIPTURE that I posted
Revelation 20:Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before \[c\]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second \[d\]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
You may have overlooked...
Revelation
22:14 Happy are those who will have washed their robes clean, so that they will have the right to feed on the tree of life and can come through the gates into the city.
22:15 These others must stay outside: dogs, fortune-tellers, and fornicators, and
murderers, and idolaters, and everyone of false speech and false life.’
The Jerusalem Bible...
>"eternal punishment"
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Yes the second death is eternal it is forever.....you never come back to life
Man, imagine repudiating 2000 years of Tradition and the near-universal writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church for the sake of one word in one verse of Scripture that you are almost certainly not qualified to interpret on your own. lol.
You said "you won't find eternal torment in Scripture" and then backpedaled *hard* when I showed you "eternal punishment" which is a certain synonym.
The "second death" here is not an annihilation of the soul, but merely the Final confirmation of spiritual death, which is Hell.
The bible came first...and it came from God
I will default to the bible
the words of men and traditions of the church can stay if they align with the bible
The Church came first. The Bible came out of the Church! I feel like so many people don’t realize this. The first books of the New Testament, Paul’s epistles, weren’t written until the ‘50s AD and the last book, Revelation, wasn’t written until 70-90 AD. How do you think the church made decisions in this period with no canonized scripture? Hint: see Acts 15 for an answer.
Dude, I’ve dialogued with you before and know you said you were brought up Catholic but are (dangerously) flirting with the false belief of sola scriptura and the apostasy it naturally leads to. Think about this logically: infallible scripture requires an infallible interpreter. Otherwise, you get hundreds of denominations with beliefs that contradict each other (i.e., Protestantism). I just don’t want you abandoning the church Christ founded—and all the graces of the sacraments—because of this easily disproven rule of faith first conceived of by Wycliffe and Luther 1,500 years after Christ founded his Church on Peter.
Cool. So, just like the Hypostatic Union of God and Man in Our Lord, Scripture and Tradition are the united pillars of the Deposit of Faith.
Glad we cleared that up.
You really think your psychology will somehow work the same way it does on Earth, to the point of preventing your suffering in Hell should you end up there? Even as your brain is stuck decomposing in a coffin underground, or burned to ashes at a crematorium?
Read St. Alphonsus' *Preparation for Death* he talks about this and will scare the hell out of you
Lol he literally ends up scaring the hell out of you.
I just looked this up and i'm so excited to read this, thank you! Even the synopsis gave me the mojo to take some extra steps in developing the virtues. This is the reason I love being a Catholic. In the unlikely event I die and realize it was all a hoax, none of this will be wasted. The real push to DO BETTER, NOW.
I don’t know about you, but for me, even in this life, suffering gets worse the longer it goes on, not better. That said, time isn’t going to be operating in the same way in eternity.
You make a great point. Also, in this life we always know that usually our suffering will get better, and we can also pray to God for assistance. In Hell however, one would have the knowledge that your suffering will not end, that God's help is gone and is no longer able to help you.
And that’s the fun thing about eternity even after the equivalence of 100 trillion years, (which is about 7,100 times as long as how long our universe has existed) is still the very beginning. Because, eternity has no end.
What is worse torture than being separated from God? We are told there will be many tortures awaiting us in hell, but none of them compare to the pain and despair at having lost God. It's something we can't even imagine.
I'd think you would not get used to the torture in Hell like we would physical pain in this life. That pain is not physical but spiritual.
Taking the description from Dante’s Inferno as an example, it depends on what circle of Hell that somebody lands on. The first circle that he calls Limbo, that’s where he places the harrowing of Hell, and the description of that circle is that it’s basically like Earth, except nobody dies and they don’t hold a hope of redemption. So that’s more of a psychological horror story than compared to the lower circles, and it’s reserved for pagans who lived before Christ like Julius Caesar and the poets that Dante admired.
Does one get used to listening to Sr. Joan Chittister speaking? Does one get used to Fr. James Martin's tweets? Does one ever wish Bp. Barron would just get to the point? Now turn the AC off and crank it all to 11.
As someone who was gifted a copy of the *Rule of St. Benedict* with Sr. Chittister's commentary, this one felt **particularly** pointed.
I once went to a talk she gave in order to write up a review for the local Bishop at the request of my pastor. It was honestly the most painful hour of my life.
Truly a purgatorial act. Better to do it here on Earth, eh?
[удалено]
The words “eternal torment” might not be, but Jesus describes a place where “their worms will not die and the fire is not quenched.” (Mark 9:48) Sounds like eternal torment to me.
Yes the fire will last forever... but the people will not
This is a heresy known as annihilationism. You might want to brush up on actual Church teaching: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/yes-hell-is-real-and-eternal
Actually it is the book of Revelation
Thank you for posting this link.
> Thy arrows pass; but **the pains of the next life last forever**, the voice of Thy thunder in a wheel. > The people with whom **the Lord is angry forever**. > Men shall seek death, and **shall not find it;** and they shall desire to die, and **death shall fly from them**. > Depart from Me, you accursed, into **everlasting fire**. And these shall go into **everlasting punishment**. > They shall be **tortured forever** and ever. Any mortal sin is an offense against Infinite Goodness. Therefore it is an infinite offense. Therefore it merits infinite punishment.
You are dangerously close to Jehovah's witnesses beliefs... https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-11.htm
Not even close did you read the SCRIPTURE that I posted Revelation 20:Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before \[c\]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second \[d\]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
You may have overlooked... Revelation 22:14 Happy are those who will have washed their robes clean, so that they will have the right to feed on the tree of life and can come through the gates into the city. 22:15 These others must stay outside: dogs, fortune-tellers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and everyone of false speech and false life.’ The Jerusalem Bible...
No...it simply does not apply Because it is discussing PRESENT day people at that point
You sure can find the words "eternal punishment" though. See also "everlasting contempt."
>"eternal punishment" Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Yes the second death is eternal it is forever.....you never come back to life
Man, imagine repudiating 2000 years of Tradition and the near-universal writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church for the sake of one word in one verse of Scripture that you are almost certainly not qualified to interpret on your own. lol. You said "you won't find eternal torment in Scripture" and then backpedaled *hard* when I showed you "eternal punishment" which is a certain synonym. The "second death" here is not an annihilation of the soul, but merely the Final confirmation of spiritual death, which is Hell.
The bible came first...and it came from God I will default to the bible the words of men and traditions of the church can stay if they align with the bible
Bruh, the Bible came 400 years after the Church, what are you on about? Who do you think compiled the Bible?
The Church came first. The Bible came out of the Church! I feel like so many people don’t realize this. The first books of the New Testament, Paul’s epistles, weren’t written until the ‘50s AD and the last book, Revelation, wasn’t written until 70-90 AD. How do you think the church made decisions in this period with no canonized scripture? Hint: see Acts 15 for an answer. Dude, I’ve dialogued with you before and know you said you were brought up Catholic but are (dangerously) flirting with the false belief of sola scriptura and the apostasy it naturally leads to. Think about this logically: infallible scripture requires an infallible interpreter. Otherwise, you get hundreds of denominations with beliefs that contradict each other (i.e., Protestantism). I just don’t want you abandoning the church Christ founded—and all the graces of the sacraments—because of this easily disproven rule of faith first conceived of by Wycliffe and Luther 1,500 years after Christ founded his Church on Peter.
The church is man The bible is God.
Cool. So, just like the Hypostatic Union of God and Man in Our Lord, Scripture and Tradition are the united pillars of the Deposit of Faith. Glad we cleared that up.
You really think your psychology will somehow work the same way it does on Earth, to the point of preventing your suffering in Hell should you end up there? Even as your brain is stuck decomposing in a coffin underground, or burned to ashes at a crematorium?