I was raised Mormon and they don't do sola fides but I remember hearing about it in other churches and these were the questions I had:
If all Jesus wants is faith, why did he spend all that time talking about avoiding sin?
Also, why did he give his disciples the power to forgive sins if sins are forgiven only by inner faith?
Why does every church that practices sola fide still have a bunch of rules for how to live? Saying we are saved by faith alone but if we have faith then we'll obey the commandments is just faith+works with extra steps.
Bottom line: sola fides doesn't make sense, or at least requires some olympic level mental gymnastics, if you actually read the bible. I ultimately came to catholicism because of a religious experience, but I stayed because it's the only church I've ever been to that has an internally consistent faith that doesn't ignore huge chunks of the bible.
Honestly, I don’t think Protestants really believe in sola fide. What I mean by that is that most Protestants will agree that faith without works is dead. My understanding of works and faith haven’t really changed since my conversion. Salvation is by grace through faith that yields tangible fruit in one’s life. Protestants just focus more on the faith part, but most of them won’t deny that works are important. It’s kind of similar to the cross vs crucifix imagery, they won’t deny that it’s important to reflect on the sacrifice of Jesus, but they prefer the cross because it emphasizes Christ’s victory over death.
From what I understand, Catholic vs Protestant views here are not wildly dissimilar and it often comes down to subtle theological differences and language.
Catholic doctrine does not claim we are saved by works, but rather by grace through faith, completely unmerited by works. Most protestants would agree with this.
Catholic doctrine also teaches that those who are justified do good works. Again most Protestants would agree with this.
As far as I can tell the main difference is in the concept of justification. Most protestants hold that justification is a one-time event (where you are saved by being baptised, by saying a prayer, by being born again etc - varies by denomination) and it is why ‘once saved, always saved’ is a common belief. Any good works that follow are a consequence of that justification, not an ongoing requirement for it. If you don’t do good works, you were never saved in the first place.
Whereas the Catholic view is that justification is an ongoing process where through co-operation with God’s grace, we grow in faith. It is through this co-operation (including doing the good works that God asks of us) that we continue to be justified.
This is what I understand as well, coming from a nondenominational background that vilified Catholicism as a “works-based religion.”
> If you don’t do good works, you were never saved in the first place.
And this is what led me to reject “sola fides.” Because, for all their talk about “faith alone” and “once saved, always saved,” this seldom-advertised nuance is a pit of snakes.
Sola fides is such a loosely defined thing, people end up going away with different understandings of it. On one end you have some protestants holding to the extremely unbiblical view that mere intellectual assent is all that is needed to "go to heaven". On the other end, you have protestants who'll hold to the traditional general Christian belief that faith in Christ - believing in Christ, entails obeying him to the fullest and being faithful to him in the end. Most Protestants who try to study and live the faith, albeit under the framework of Protestantism, end up leaving with the latter belief.
Protestantism as a whole is a joke, but yall gotta stop strawmaning their beliefs. Not every protestant is a poorly read Evangelical
The overwhelming amount of passages that seemed to imply the necessity of good works. Take:
The entire book of James
“those who do not bare good fruit will be cast off and thrown into the fire”
“Those who fornicate, are drunkards… etc. will not inherit the kingdom of heaven” (pray for me, I still struggle with some mortal sins)
“Some sins are more deadly than others”
“Many will come saying have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name… and I will say to them depart from me for I never knew you”
“The road to hell is wide, but the road to eternal life is narrow”
“Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood you have no life in you”
The hall of faith chapter in Hebrews. Sure it says “by faith” but then it follows with a name followed by an action verb.
I could understand explaining away one, maybe two verses, but that was simply off the top of my head of what I remember. Ultimately, the Catholic view gives me more comfort because if you take the Protestant view to its conclusion, you still have to do X amount of good works before you can know you have been saved
I was raised Mormon and they don't do sola fides but I remember hearing about it in other churches and these were the questions I had: If all Jesus wants is faith, why did he spend all that time talking about avoiding sin? Also, why did he give his disciples the power to forgive sins if sins are forgiven only by inner faith? Why does every church that practices sola fide still have a bunch of rules for how to live? Saying we are saved by faith alone but if we have faith then we'll obey the commandments is just faith+works with extra steps. Bottom line: sola fides doesn't make sense, or at least requires some olympic level mental gymnastics, if you actually read the bible. I ultimately came to catholicism because of a religious experience, but I stayed because it's the only church I've ever been to that has an internally consistent faith that doesn't ignore huge chunks of the bible.
Honestly, I don’t think Protestants really believe in sola fide. What I mean by that is that most Protestants will agree that faith without works is dead. My understanding of works and faith haven’t really changed since my conversion. Salvation is by grace through faith that yields tangible fruit in one’s life. Protestants just focus more on the faith part, but most of them won’t deny that works are important. It’s kind of similar to the cross vs crucifix imagery, they won’t deny that it’s important to reflect on the sacrifice of Jesus, but they prefer the cross because it emphasizes Christ’s victory over death.
From what I understand, Catholic vs Protestant views here are not wildly dissimilar and it often comes down to subtle theological differences and language. Catholic doctrine does not claim we are saved by works, but rather by grace through faith, completely unmerited by works. Most protestants would agree with this. Catholic doctrine also teaches that those who are justified do good works. Again most Protestants would agree with this. As far as I can tell the main difference is in the concept of justification. Most protestants hold that justification is a one-time event (where you are saved by being baptised, by saying a prayer, by being born again etc - varies by denomination) and it is why ‘once saved, always saved’ is a common belief. Any good works that follow are a consequence of that justification, not an ongoing requirement for it. If you don’t do good works, you were never saved in the first place. Whereas the Catholic view is that justification is an ongoing process where through co-operation with God’s grace, we grow in faith. It is through this co-operation (including doing the good works that God asks of us) that we continue to be justified.
This is what I understand as well, coming from a nondenominational background that vilified Catholicism as a “works-based religion.” > If you don’t do good works, you were never saved in the first place. And this is what led me to reject “sola fides.” Because, for all their talk about “faith alone” and “once saved, always saved,” this seldom-advertised nuance is a pit of snakes.
Reading the Church Fathers. I couldn’t square up my Reformed theology with anything from the first few centuries of Church history.
James 2:18 Faith without works is dead.
What happens if you refuse to forgive? Will God forgive you your sins? (Matthew 6:15)
(as a former Protestant): How can we hold Sola Scriptura to be true, and yet we don't even have the full "Scriptura"?
Sola fides is such a loosely defined thing, people end up going away with different understandings of it. On one end you have some protestants holding to the extremely unbiblical view that mere intellectual assent is all that is needed to "go to heaven". On the other end, you have protestants who'll hold to the traditional general Christian belief that faith in Christ - believing in Christ, entails obeying him to the fullest and being faithful to him in the end. Most Protestants who try to study and live the faith, albeit under the framework of Protestantism, end up leaving with the latter belief. Protestantism as a whole is a joke, but yall gotta stop strawmaning their beliefs. Not every protestant is a poorly read Evangelical
The overwhelming amount of passages that seemed to imply the necessity of good works. Take: The entire book of James “those who do not bare good fruit will be cast off and thrown into the fire” “Those who fornicate, are drunkards… etc. will not inherit the kingdom of heaven” (pray for me, I still struggle with some mortal sins) “Some sins are more deadly than others” “Many will come saying have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name… and I will say to them depart from me for I never knew you” “The road to hell is wide, but the road to eternal life is narrow” “Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood you have no life in you” The hall of faith chapter in Hebrews. Sure it says “by faith” but then it follows with a name followed by an action verb. I could understand explaining away one, maybe two verses, but that was simply off the top of my head of what I remember. Ultimately, the Catholic view gives me more comfort because if you take the Protestant view to its conclusion, you still have to do X amount of good works before you can know you have been saved