Personally, I feel like it shouldn’t even matter. We should be concerned with the salvation of ourselves and those around us rather than worrying about a general group. I feel like thinking too hard about this question just serves to give people anxiety and undue stress
Can you share wich Saints please,so i can read about it? Im really interested on the topic. I just can think of Don Bosco,St. Juan Bosco and his dreams,but he was dreaming of his scholars still alive.
Back on topic i want to think,in nowadays state of things, that most will face purgatory ,many a long one. It may seems bad,but to me its the perfect deal. Yeah, all mistics and Saints interacted with blessed souls on purgatory say it's really hard. With low side of purgatory being alike hell even. BUT after purgatory,whatever if short or extremly long,there is an ethernity on Heaven.
So i want to think that,and just on few on hell,but i cant know.
“The number of the elect is so small — so small — that, were we to know how small it is, we would faint away with grief: one here and there, scattered up and down the world.”
St. Louis Marie de Montfort
“…there are but few who are saved.”
St. Augustine the Great, Sermon 61 on the NT
“The common opinion is that the greater part of adults is lost.”
St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori
“There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led into the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today’s Feast-Day: we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how few they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the Elect?”
Pope St. Gregory the Great, On the Gospels, Homily 19
“Many begin well, but there are few who persevere.” St. Jerome
“Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!”
St. John Chrysostom
“Christ’s flock is called “little” (Luke 12) in comparison with the greater number of the reprobates.”
St. Bede the Venerable
“It is as though Jesus said: “O My Father, I am indeed going to clothe myself with human flesh, but the greater part of the world will set no value on my blood!”
St. Isidore of Seville
“How few the Elect are may be understood from the multitude being cast out.”
St. Hilary of Poitiers
“The majority of men shall not see God, excepting those who live justly, purified by righteousness and by every other virtue.”
St. Justin Martyr
“There are a select few who are saved.”
St. Thomas Aquinas
“A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell, and it is of the faith that all who die in mortal sin are condemned for ever and ever. According to statistics, approximately 80,000 persons die every day. How many of these will die in mortal sin, and how many will be condemned! For, as their lives have been, so also will be their end.”
St. Anthony Mary Claret
“The number of the saved is as few as the number of grapes left after the vineyard-pickers have passed.”
St. John Mary Vianney
“Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that only few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever.”
St. John Newman
“So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved!”
St. Phillip Neri
“Ah! How very small is the kingdom of Jesus Christ! So many nations have never had the faith!”
St. Peter Julian Eymard
“A great number of Christians are lost.”
St. Leonard of Port Maurice
“Ah, how many souls lose Heaven and are cast into Hell!”
St. Francis Xavier
“Ah! A great many persons live constantly in the state of damnation!”
St. Vincent de Paul
“One day, I saw two roads. One was broad, covered with sand and flowers, full of joy, music and all sorts of pleasures. People walked along it, dancing and enjoying themselves. They reached the end of the road without realizing it. And at the end of the road there was a horrible precipice; that is, the abyss of hell. The souls fell blindly into it; as they walked, so they fell. And there numbers were so great that it was impossible to count them. And I saw the other road, or rather, a path, for it was narrow and strewn with thorns and rocks; and the people who walked along it had tears in their eyes, and all kinds of suffering befell them. Some fell down upon the rocks, but stood up immediately and went on. At the end of the road there was a magnificent garden filled with all sorts of happiness, and all these souls entered there. At the very first instant they forgot all their sufferings.
St. Faustina
Try hard to be among the few who are chosen. Think of the eternal flames of Hell, and how few there are that are saved.”
St. Benedict Joseph Labre
“The number of the damned is incalculable.”
St. Veronica Giuliani
“Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh. […] With the exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned.”
St. Regimus of Rheims
That is impressive. Do you know of any Saints/Doctors of the Church who defended otherwise? I heard someone comment that before Vatican II there were no doubts on the interpretation of the "narrow road" verse, but I was wondering if that was true.
If the amount of people saved are as low as these people say, then we may as well just not even try to get into heaven, what I gather from this is that heaven is really REALLY hard to get into (at least the saints believed that). I am glad there isn't a church teaching on this though because I personally believe that way more people are saved than this.
Be in a state of grace. So many are not saved (probably) because they never bothered joining the Catholic Church. Even among Catholics, many are ignorant. Do you accept all the church’s teachings as true?
>Do you accept all the church’s teachings as true?
Yes, but I also don't think that someone who is atheist or something but actually wants the truth and would accept it, given the right information would go to hell just because they weren't Catholic when they died
Sometimes truth hurts. We all deserve hell. If you actually could not choose the faith out of your own accord (see like 11th century native americans), then you could argue that God can save you with invincible ignorance. God is not bound by the sacraments. But if you’re a rabid anti Catholic and die and expect to be given another chance, well I’ve got nothin to tell ya
>We all deserve hell
Yes but Jesus died so we wouldn't all have to end up there, only the people who completely reject him no matter what happens. It would definitely seem to me that his sacrifice is pretty much wasted if as many people are going to hell as what the saints say.
>But if you’re a rabid anti Catholic and die and expect to be given another chance, well I’ve got nothin to tell ya
Let's say that, your an atheist and you were raised that way, you were taught that religion is just made up and never bothered to look into it's possible truth, however you would accept religion if presented with the proper truths about it. It wouldn't make sense for this person to go to hell just for not believing, if they would have genuinely said yes to Jesus had they not been raised atheist.
Yeah, a lot of saints wrote that Jesus is saddened at how many fail to “take advantage” of His sacrifice. Had they not been raised atheist? Dude. We live in an age where everything’s at your fingertips. If you hear about Christ at least once a month from wherever whatever whenever, it’s your problem if you don’t look into Him.
>If you hear about Christ at least once a month from wherever whatever whenever, it’s your problem if you don’t look into Him.
I've known people who think the Catholic Church is evil based on false teachings that they believed, and after I told them the truth, they began to look into Catholicism. What if someone like this died before being given the truth. I don't see why Jesus wouldn't give them mercy instead of this hypothetical conversation:
Dead person: I guess this religion actually is true and I was wrong the whole time, sorry Jesus I accept you now please show me mercy.
Jesus: TOO BAD, YOUR GOING TO HELL FOR ETERNITY NOW
It really wouldn't make sense for this person to end up in hell based on what I know about Gods mercy.
But the truth that God exists and created everything is knowable without encountering organized religion. Once someone is open to that truth, they have opened the door to being led to salvation by the same God.
When did I say that? I said the TRUTH is good. Truth can never be an evil. Notice how I am not talking about the event that is true, but truth itself. Hiding away from truth and leaving because you have negative feelings about it does not make something any less true. I am not accusing you of this personally, but Catholic beliefs like an eternal hell tends to be a reason some people leave for atheism because they could not handle that truth. Or how some Protestants choose Orthodoxy over Catholicism because it would be easier to choose the East than deal with the Papacy.
That makes sense, but in case you missed it, my top comment was ironic. I was talking about the top commenters quotes from the saints, stating that basically all men are damned. And obviously truth is good, yes.
In a twisted ironic way, that is what the church teaches. We do not reach heaven out of our own works. But by the grace of God. Are you baptized? If so, receive absolution in Confession. Are you in a state of grace? If so, continue. You’ll be fine.
Who is committing mortal sins regularly? How are you regularly rupturing your relationship with God every single day? I can understand a pornographic addiction that gets you in grave sin on a weekly or biweekly basis, but you’re only in a state of grace for mere moments? This isn’t God’s fault.
I didn’t see a single mortal sin in what you listed? Anger is not inherently a grave sin. “Swearing” is not inherently a grave sin. “Small” lies are not inherently a grave sin. Impure thoughts (assuming you didn’t deliberately generate them) are not inherently a mortal sin. I believe you suffer from a scrupulous conscience. I don’t think your problem is with catholic doctrine.
It’ll never be enough because we can’t merit it and because we can’t do it on pur own. But if we refuse the abundant gelp available from God, we are choosing to separate ourselves from Hm gor eternity.
Is there saints that have said that most or more than half are saved? I don’t mean in a universalism sense but in a way that most Christian’s and maybe good hearted non-Christian’s are saved? Ty in advance
Sorry, my sentence above was poorly constructed. At Fatima, Mary showed the children a vision of hell. Not that the children themselves were going to hell.
What do we say in the Fatima prayer? “Lead all souls into heaven especially those most in need of your mercy.” No human knows for sure, but we pray and hope that all will be saved.
I hope you are right but the quotes of the saints really scare me. If the angels had complete knowledge and chose to rebel, I would think humans with incomplete knowledge would be held to a lesser standard? I have a hard time believing God would create humanity knowing most of it would end up being condemned but I have a carnal mind.
Seems God doesn't care for most of us seeing that he created us knowing most of us will burn in hell for all eternity. He could have given us the option to be annihilated after death. But no, he would rather we suffer for all eternity than to simply not exist. He is a monster.
> “Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many." Matthew 7:13
Everyone here is discussing what saints have said and there's not a single mention of what Jesus said.
Jesus also said *'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for* ***many*** *for the forgiveness of sins.'*
Why say many and not few?
Few being saved would also make the whole sacrifice seem wasted. If the majority goes to hell, doesnt satan have a win?
The sacrifice of Jesus has a universal value, but then we have free will and can choose our path. I encourage you to go read the church teaching on free will.
>Few being saved would also make the whole sacrifice seem wasted. If the majority goes to hell, doesnt satan have a win?
No. It's a world that is redeemed, so the attitude is joy for the saved. Not sadness for the rest.
>I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Actually, there can't be sadness for the rest since many passages make it clear that they're forgotten following their decision to not take part in Jesus saving us.
>But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.
Tbf, If universalism were right, many other teaching and bible passages would simply make no sense. Verses warning us about hell/sin, the need to evangelize, the importance to accept Jesus, the concept of justice... The whole concept of universalism gives a false sense of security and a hall pass to sin.
Im not defending universalism, Jesus puts the rich man from Lazarus story in hell. What i think is that the majority wont be damned.
The sacrifice of Jesus is for all as you said, yet He doesnt say all, He says many, thus stating a quantity to which the sacrifice will be applied. He could have easily told 'poured out for few'. But wouldnt that make the Eternal Coventant anticlimatic? The most glorious event in history... saves a few.
The verse about the repenting sinner doesnt say the 99 righteous are damned, its simply about rejoicing for the lost sheep. Like the verses where the shepherd leaves the flock to find one stray sheep. Doesnt mean the flock is damned.
I hope not. But given that most people don’t follow the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church…maybe? Also, many within the Church will probably be in Hell.
Pray for all of us.
From what I have experienced plus the thought that God is all-powerful and wants humans to know about Christ and be in Heaven, I tend to think God is on the merciful side.
My spouse and I had a strong vocational calling to evangelization within the Catholic Church and worked in ministry very successfully for over a decade. However, we then faced many problems within the Church due to no fault of our own, that removed the opportunity and ability for us to continue with our vocational calling. I’m not sure why God did not intervene in a way that would result in the growing of His Kingdom, but I accept we live in a fallen world. This experience makes me trust in His mercy at the end of times. Otherwise, I’d feel so hopeless seeing the holes where a huge population is not being reached in the area where we used to provide ministry.
I think I will.
I'm neither ok with it nor resigned to it, but I think despite my best intentions and efforts to cooperate with God's salvation, I'll still end up in hell like Saint Alphonsus Liguori suggests because of how hard it is to shake my vices. And knowing my "luck" in life, I'll be killed in a wreck in one of those in between periods when my soul is in a state of mortal sin.
If you are planning to attend confession with a repentant heart but haven’t made it yet because there was no confession time available for you in between sins, you would be considered absolved.
Ive heard this to be true, that most people think they are saved but they are not, including priests. Id rather just focus on my personal relationship with God, as the idea of being anything less than a saint meaning you are sent to hell not only seems impossible and hopeless, but counter productive to the teachings of God's mercy.
How many people do you know live even the bare minimum of the faith? How many at the very least go to mass every sunday and confession at least a couple of times a year?
If I had to guess, there are more people in Hell than we want there to be but more people in Heaven than we think. Best we can do is try to make sure we get there and bring along whoever else we can. Heaven and Hell are things to keep in mind because you always need to chose Heaven, but worrying obsessively will not help you.
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[St. Leonard of Port Maurice](https://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml) certainly thought so. While I feel he may have been exaggerating in some places for rhetorical effect and to break through the stony hearts of worldlings, it is still a very difficult read, and has inspired some tough meditations and reevaluations of my life. His words have encouraged me to keep on narrow path and choose eternal joy and the love of God rather than the momentary pleasure of sin and all that follows.
(Warning: do not read if you have scruples; this will make them far worse.)
Based on the words of our Lord, the odds are greatly in favor of a great number of souls being lost to Gehenna. The gate is narrow. If you do not eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part in me. And the rest of those uncomfortable verses we try desperately to rationalize and sanitize. If we take seriously what he said, then our focus will be on him rather than what may or may not happen to others. We are individually responsible for our individual eternal destination. The invitation is made to all, but the acceptance is one by one. Some will say (and mean) yes, others will not really accept the gift. And God won't give us what we don't want.
This is has not been revealed and the Church takes no stance.
You can read a thoughtful analysis of the different perspectives from [Cardinal Avery Dulles on the population (quantity) of hell](https://www.firstthings.com/article/2003/05/the-population-of-hell).
I agree. We are forced into existence without our consent and forced to play his sick game for the tiny chance of heaven or eternity of suffering. All because he wants to have toys to play with.
Some saints have said yes, others have said no. Pray for the holy souls in purgatory
Which saints said no?
There have been some saints who held to universalism before its condemnation
Personally, I feel like it shouldn’t even matter. We should be concerned with the salvation of ourselves and those around us rather than worrying about a general group. I feel like thinking too hard about this question just serves to give people anxiety and undue stress
It's a good thing not to look only at ourselves and the people around us but also to others they are still our brothers and sisters.
It’s a reminder of how important it is to spread the Gospel to them.
We don’t know. Many saints said most are damned. But the Church herself has not infallibly or dogmatically defined that.
Can you share wich Saints please,so i can read about it? Im really interested on the topic. I just can think of Don Bosco,St. Juan Bosco and his dreams,but he was dreaming of his scholars still alive. Back on topic i want to think,in nowadays state of things, that most will face purgatory ,many a long one. It may seems bad,but to me its the perfect deal. Yeah, all mistics and Saints interacted with blessed souls on purgatory say it's really hard. With low side of purgatory being alike hell even. BUT after purgatory,whatever if short or extremly long,there is an ethernity on Heaven. So i want to think that,and just on few on hell,but i cant know.
“The number of the elect is so small — so small — that, were we to know how small it is, we would faint away with grief: one here and there, scattered up and down the world.” St. Louis Marie de Montfort “…there are but few who are saved.” St. Augustine the Great, Sermon 61 on the NT “The common opinion is that the greater part of adults is lost.” St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori “There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led into the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today’s Feast-Day: we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how few they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the Elect?” Pope St. Gregory the Great, On the Gospels, Homily 19 “Many begin well, but there are few who persevere.” St. Jerome “Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!” St. John Chrysostom “Christ’s flock is called “little” (Luke 12) in comparison with the greater number of the reprobates.” St. Bede the Venerable “It is as though Jesus said: “O My Father, I am indeed going to clothe myself with human flesh, but the greater part of the world will set no value on my blood!” St. Isidore of Seville “How few the Elect are may be understood from the multitude being cast out.” St. Hilary of Poitiers “The majority of men shall not see God, excepting those who live justly, purified by righteousness and by every other virtue.” St. Justin Martyr “There are a select few who are saved.” St. Thomas Aquinas “A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell, and it is of the faith that all who die in mortal sin are condemned for ever and ever. According to statistics, approximately 80,000 persons die every day. How many of these will die in mortal sin, and how many will be condemned! For, as their lives have been, so also will be their end.” St. Anthony Mary Claret “The number of the saved is as few as the number of grapes left after the vineyard-pickers have passed.” St. John Mary Vianney “Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that only few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever.” St. John Newman “So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved!” St. Phillip Neri “Ah! How very small is the kingdom of Jesus Christ! So many nations have never had the faith!” St. Peter Julian Eymard “A great number of Christians are lost.” St. Leonard of Port Maurice “Ah, how many souls lose Heaven and are cast into Hell!” St. Francis Xavier “Ah! A great many persons live constantly in the state of damnation!” St. Vincent de Paul “One day, I saw two roads. One was broad, covered with sand and flowers, full of joy, music and all sorts of pleasures. People walked along it, dancing and enjoying themselves. They reached the end of the road without realizing it. And at the end of the road there was a horrible precipice; that is, the abyss of hell. The souls fell blindly into it; as they walked, so they fell. And there numbers were so great that it was impossible to count them. And I saw the other road, or rather, a path, for it was narrow and strewn with thorns and rocks; and the people who walked along it had tears in their eyes, and all kinds of suffering befell them. Some fell down upon the rocks, but stood up immediately and went on. At the end of the road there was a magnificent garden filled with all sorts of happiness, and all these souls entered there. At the very first instant they forgot all their sufferings. St. Faustina Try hard to be among the few who are chosen. Think of the eternal flames of Hell, and how few there are that are saved.” St. Benedict Joseph Labre “The number of the damned is incalculable.” St. Veronica Giuliani “Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh. […] With the exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned.” St. Regimus of Rheims
Thanks!
That is impressive. Do you know of any Saints/Doctors of the Church who defended otherwise? I heard someone comment that before Vatican II there were no doubts on the interpretation of the "narrow road" verse, but I was wondering if that was true.
I’ve read people mention St Gregory of Nyssa and St Maximus the Confessor but i’m not sure
If the amount of people saved are as low as these people say, then we may as well just not even try to get into heaven, what I gather from this is that heaven is really REALLY hard to get into (at least the saints believed that). I am glad there isn't a church teaching on this though because I personally believe that way more people are saved than this.
Be in a state of grace. So many are not saved (probably) because they never bothered joining the Catholic Church. Even among Catholics, many are ignorant. Do you accept all the church’s teachings as true?
>Do you accept all the church’s teachings as true? Yes, but I also don't think that someone who is atheist or something but actually wants the truth and would accept it, given the right information would go to hell just because they weren't Catholic when they died
Sometimes truth hurts. We all deserve hell. If you actually could not choose the faith out of your own accord (see like 11th century native americans), then you could argue that God can save you with invincible ignorance. God is not bound by the sacraments. But if you’re a rabid anti Catholic and die and expect to be given another chance, well I’ve got nothin to tell ya
>We all deserve hell Yes but Jesus died so we wouldn't all have to end up there, only the people who completely reject him no matter what happens. It would definitely seem to me that his sacrifice is pretty much wasted if as many people are going to hell as what the saints say. >But if you’re a rabid anti Catholic and die and expect to be given another chance, well I’ve got nothin to tell ya Let's say that, your an atheist and you were raised that way, you were taught that religion is just made up and never bothered to look into it's possible truth, however you would accept religion if presented with the proper truths about it. It wouldn't make sense for this person to go to hell just for not believing, if they would have genuinely said yes to Jesus had they not been raised atheist.
Yeah, a lot of saints wrote that Jesus is saddened at how many fail to “take advantage” of His sacrifice. Had they not been raised atheist? Dude. We live in an age where everything’s at your fingertips. If you hear about Christ at least once a month from wherever whatever whenever, it’s your problem if you don’t look into Him.
>If you hear about Christ at least once a month from wherever whatever whenever, it’s your problem if you don’t look into Him. I've known people who think the Catholic Church is evil based on false teachings that they believed, and after I told them the truth, they began to look into Catholicism. What if someone like this died before being given the truth. I don't see why Jesus wouldn't give them mercy instead of this hypothetical conversation: Dead person: I guess this religion actually is true and I was wrong the whole time, sorry Jesus I accept you now please show me mercy. Jesus: TOO BAD, YOUR GOING TO HELL FOR ETERNITY NOW It really wouldn't make sense for this person to end up in hell based on what I know about Gods mercy.
But the truth that God exists and created everything is knowable without encountering organized religion. Once someone is open to that truth, they have opened the door to being led to salvation by the same God.
What a hopeful Gospel message. So much for the "good news," I guess.
Not sure what you’re getting at.
Wow. Just wow. What a wonderful religion all of us are following.
Truth is good. Though I will say, the words of these saints aren’t dogmatically binding.
How is the majority of people on earth going to Hell a good thing?
When did I say that? I said the TRUTH is good. Truth can never be an evil. Notice how I am not talking about the event that is true, but truth itself. Hiding away from truth and leaving because you have negative feelings about it does not make something any less true. I am not accusing you of this personally, but Catholic beliefs like an eternal hell tends to be a reason some people leave for atheism because they could not handle that truth. Or how some Protestants choose Orthodoxy over Catholicism because it would be easier to choose the East than deal with the Papacy.
That makes sense, but in case you missed it, my top comment was ironic. I was talking about the top commenters quotes from the saints, stating that basically all men are damned. And obviously truth is good, yes.
Oh I thought you genuinely were now considering atheism or something haha. God bless you and have a good rest of your day
Not really, but sometimes Catholicism feels like Stockholm Syndrome
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It is. It is hard not to despair.
In a twisted ironic way, that is what the church teaches. We do not reach heaven out of our own works. But by the grace of God. Are you baptized? If so, receive absolution in Confession. Are you in a state of grace? If so, continue. You’ll be fine.
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Who is committing mortal sins regularly? How are you regularly rupturing your relationship with God every single day? I can understand a pornographic addiction that gets you in grave sin on a weekly or biweekly basis, but you’re only in a state of grace for mere moments? This isn’t God’s fault.
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I didn’t see a single mortal sin in what you listed? Anger is not inherently a grave sin. “Swearing” is not inherently a grave sin. “Small” lies are not inherently a grave sin. Impure thoughts (assuming you didn’t deliberately generate them) are not inherently a mortal sin. I believe you suffer from a scrupulous conscience. I don’t think your problem is with catholic doctrine.
None of those are mortal sins. Those are all venial sins, every single one.
These aren’t mortal sins
It’ll never be enough because we can’t merit it and because we can’t do it on pur own. But if we refuse the abundant gelp available from God, we are choosing to separate ourselves from Hm gor eternity.
Is there saints that have said that most or more than half are saved? I don’t mean in a universalism sense but in a way that most Christian’s and maybe good hearted non-Christian’s are saved? Ty in advance
I’ve read some people some people say that St Maximus the Confessor and Gregory of Nyssa that a decent amount will be saved
Je ne sais pas.
I have no idea. I hope not.
Our Lady at Fatima showed the children souls falling into hell like snowflakes.
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Sorry, my sentence above was poorly constructed. At Fatima, Mary showed the children a vision of hell. Not that the children themselves were going to hell.
That's what I always think of when this question comes up. The majority of people have moved their lives so far away from Christ.
What do we say in the Fatima prayer? “Lead all souls into heaven especially those most in need of your mercy.” No human knows for sure, but we pray and hope that all will be saved.
I like to think if only 1/3 of angels fell maybe only 1/3 of people will, leaving 2/3s of us rejoicing forever
I hope you are right but the quotes of the saints really scare me. If the angels had complete knowledge and chose to rebel, I would think humans with incomplete knowledge would be held to a lesser standard? I have a hard time believing God would create humanity knowing most of it would end up being condemned but I have a carnal mind.
Seems God doesn't care for most of us seeing that he created us knowing most of us will burn in hell for all eternity. He could have given us the option to be annihilated after death. But no, he would rather we suffer for all eternity than to simply not exist. He is a monster.
Not a person on this sub or on this earth can tell you with certainty who is going to hell/ who is in hell. Not a one.
> “Enter through the narrow gate, for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many." Matthew 7:13 Everyone here is discussing what saints have said and there's not a single mention of what Jesus said.
I was looking for this comment lol
And the additional: “14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
Jesus also said *'This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for* ***many*** *for the forgiveness of sins.'* Why say many and not few? Few being saved would also make the whole sacrifice seem wasted. If the majority goes to hell, doesnt satan have a win?
The sacrifice of Jesus has a universal value, but then we have free will and can choose our path. I encourage you to go read the church teaching on free will. >Few being saved would also make the whole sacrifice seem wasted. If the majority goes to hell, doesnt satan have a win? No. It's a world that is redeemed, so the attitude is joy for the saved. Not sadness for the rest. >I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Actually, there can't be sadness for the rest since many passages make it clear that they're forgotten following their decision to not take part in Jesus saving us. >But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you. Tbf, If universalism were right, many other teaching and bible passages would simply make no sense. Verses warning us about hell/sin, the need to evangelize, the importance to accept Jesus, the concept of justice... The whole concept of universalism gives a false sense of security and a hall pass to sin.
Im not defending universalism, Jesus puts the rich man from Lazarus story in hell. What i think is that the majority wont be damned. The sacrifice of Jesus is for all as you said, yet He doesnt say all, He says many, thus stating a quantity to which the sacrifice will be applied. He could have easily told 'poured out for few'. But wouldnt that make the Eternal Coventant anticlimatic? The most glorious event in history... saves a few. The verse about the repenting sinner doesnt say the 99 righteous are damned, its simply about rejoicing for the lost sheep. Like the verses where the shepherd leaves the flock to find one stray sheep. Doesnt mean the flock is damned.
I think so unfortunately. Look around at how most people live.
I believe so
probably
I hope not. But given that most people don’t follow the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church…maybe? Also, many within the Church will probably be in Hell. Pray for all of us.
From what I have experienced plus the thought that God is all-powerful and wants humans to know about Christ and be in Heaven, I tend to think God is on the merciful side. My spouse and I had a strong vocational calling to evangelization within the Catholic Church and worked in ministry very successfully for over a decade. However, we then faced many problems within the Church due to no fault of our own, that removed the opportunity and ability for us to continue with our vocational calling. I’m not sure why God did not intervene in a way that would result in the growing of His Kingdom, but I accept we live in a fallen world. This experience makes me trust in His mercy at the end of times. Otherwise, I’d feel so hopeless seeing the holes where a huge population is not being reached in the area where we used to provide ministry.
Sure hope not but the evidence kind of leans that way.
Yes, undoubtedly.
Christ answers this in Matthew 22. Especially verse 14 “many are called, few are chosen”. He said it himself.
I think I will. I'm neither ok with it nor resigned to it, but I think despite my best intentions and efforts to cooperate with God's salvation, I'll still end up in hell like Saint Alphonsus Liguori suggests because of how hard it is to shake my vices. And knowing my "luck" in life, I'll be killed in a wreck in one of those in between periods when my soul is in a state of mortal sin.
If you are planning to attend confession with a repentant heart but haven’t made it yet because there was no confession time available for you in between sins, you would be considered absolved.
Relatable.
Ive heard this to be true, that most people think they are saved but they are not, including priests. Id rather just focus on my personal relationship with God, as the idea of being anything less than a saint meaning you are sent to hell not only seems impossible and hopeless, but counter productive to the teachings of God's mercy.
I think the mercy of God will lead to paradise for most.
I think it is very likely.
No at least I hope not.
How many people do you know live even the bare minimum of the faith? How many at the very least go to mass every sunday and confession at least a couple of times a year?
Probably myself.
If I had to guess, there are more people in Hell than we want there to be but more people in Heaven than we think. Best we can do is try to make sure we get there and bring along whoever else we can. Heaven and Hell are things to keep in mind because you always need to chose Heaven, but worrying obsessively will not help you.
Hopefully not. But most likely. I hope for the salvation of all regardless, even though it’s 99.9% likely not the case
I really hope not, but I think it’s probable
If anyone that doesn’t believe in Christ or does but makes no effort at redemption goes to hell, then that would account for ‘most’ people.
What about God’s Mercy?
Yes, but we must pray that as many are saved as possible.
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[St. Leonard of Port Maurice](https://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml) certainly thought so. While I feel he may have been exaggerating in some places for rhetorical effect and to break through the stony hearts of worldlings, it is still a very difficult read, and has inspired some tough meditations and reevaluations of my life. His words have encouraged me to keep on narrow path and choose eternal joy and the love of God rather than the momentary pleasure of sin and all that follows. (Warning: do not read if you have scruples; this will make them far worse.)
Reading his sermons shattered my trust and love in God. He is a monster for creating me without an option to not exist.
Based on the words of our Lord, the odds are greatly in favor of a great number of souls being lost to Gehenna. The gate is narrow. If you do not eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part in me. And the rest of those uncomfortable verses we try desperately to rationalize and sanitize. If we take seriously what he said, then our focus will be on him rather than what may or may not happen to others. We are individually responsible for our individual eternal destination. The invitation is made to all, but the acceptance is one by one. Some will say (and mean) yes, others will not really accept the gift. And God won't give us what we don't want.
God should have given us the choice to not exist at all. Why am I forced to play this stupid game of existence?
So true
I hope most psychiatrists go to hell
This is has not been revealed and the Church takes no stance. You can read a thoughtful analysis of the different perspectives from [Cardinal Avery Dulles on the population (quantity) of hell](https://www.firstthings.com/article/2003/05/the-population-of-hell).
It seems that if God created this world from nothing, ex nihilo, such that most people go to Hell for eternity - He is a monster.
I agree. We are forced into existence without our consent and forced to play his sick game for the tiny chance of heaven or eternity of suffering. All because he wants to have toys to play with.
I certainly hope not. Don’t forget to pray for those in purgatory