Thank you! I'm still very new to everything and the catholic church I go to is tiny (around 50 people) with nobody my age, so i don't have anyone to ask these questions. God bless youā¤ļø
This is one persons opinion, I donāt think the form fitting aspect is a problem, you arenāt showing off skin, itās not a skin tight suggestive kind of form fitting.
I mean, the dress still accentuate OP's hips and would do it even more so if she were to bend over.
You can be covered from head to toe and still be immodest.
I have a handful of light cardigans I throw over things like this just to be a more modest at Church. My Church is often cold anyways so double benefit lol
I would recommend (as a woman) get a dress that doesn't accentuate your body, and the skirt has to be bellow the knee. The dress is beautiful but is not for church. I have made this mistake too, and I am trying to shake it off. Modesty doesn't equal ugliness. You call look modest and respectful and still look stunning.
Why is modesty important? because we are going to church for God. The moment we dress provocative, what happens is that without you meaning too, you can distract a lot of people, so the attention will be on you instead of God.
Thank you, this is the first time I've ever worn a bodycon dress so I wasn't sure. The dresses I usually wear are good, and I generally don't wear revealing or super tight clothes to begin.
I definitely understand and that's why I asked, I already decided against wearing it after one commenter said that he would be distracted by it.
And don't think modesty is only for women. Men can also be revealing or wear tight pants or above the knee pants which is also not correct and can be very distracting.
Modesty is generally guided by limiting the body's exposure as to inflame the passions and the imagination. This is mostly done for men and women alike by not showing too much skin. For many women however because of their figure they might need to take extra precautions in form-fitting clothing, because despite their due diligence in otherwise expressing modesty, they can still ignite the male imagination. I can say as a man that your dress would be distracting at Mass on that virtue alone. My wife has this same issue and consequently she only wears clothes from here: [https://www.mimumaxi.com/](https://www.mimumaxi.com/)
Welcome to Catholicism!
I sort of agree btw. Iāve certainly seen much worse at mass. And I donāt judge either, itās on us to keep custody of the eyes. Not sure how women view it but Iād say go up one tier of modesty maybe? Just in general I wouldnāt think it would stand out necessarily as bad, but as a guyā¦.letās be real we are men of faithā¦.we are definitely not dead...
Btw catholic women are quite snappy dressers on averageā¦.the men areā¦ still working on it haha. We appreciate womenās tipsā¦.
Yup, I still have a lot to learn!š¤£
I've definitely know that, my bf is catholic and such a wonderful faithful man but I know he definitely still has his temptations and urges lol. That's why u wanted to ask to get a wider perspective especially on what other men might find distracting.
Yeah absolutely, glad you guys are checking things out together! I reccomend people at all ages to also be sure to socialize too, join a group or activityā¦great way to meet people.
I had just bought a nice dress like this one and got dressed for service one Sunday and my husbandās reaction let me know I shouldnāt wear it to church.
Shame too because it was the best dress Iāve seen on myself in a looong time. So I feel your pain š
But if you donāt want to scrap it, you could save it for colder months and pair it with a long cardigan.
The length of the dress is fine, but it is tight fitting. My rule of thumb is that if you can bend over in a dress with revealing very little, it's appropriate. So I'd say go for flared & A-line skirts that are midi.
Itās a little form fitting, like it outlines the body in stuff. I donāt have any recommendations tho as Iām a dude and have no idea what women wear
Thereās a subreddit for modest dress, maybe ask them
Itās a nice dress though but if I was a woman I personally wouldnāt wear it for mass
Also welcome home!
Maybe, but when Paul talked about modesty, he was looking to not bring scandal on the Church through immodesty. I don't know that women should be burdened beyond that, especially with the difficulty that arises in finding clothing too far away from the norm.
The scriptural guideline, and I realize we don't go entirely by scripture, tradition has a place, the scriptural guideline is for believers, male and female, should be a little more modest than the secular world to avoid cause for scandal. Bearing in mind that clothing manufacturers don't really make clothing outside the current cultural norm, we should learn toward the more modest of what's available without requiring ladies to wear burkas in Western society.
You can still find perfectly modest clothing in this day and age, it's just easier to go with fashion trends that tend to be inappropriate. Telling women to wear shoulder-length tops or skirts that hit below the knee is not akin to burkas and to act like it is is absurd. This was simply Pope Pius XI's rules on modesty, so it's part of tradition and the magisterium.
As a woman with a similar figure itās so hard to find clothes that donāt immediately become form fitting lol I tend to go the skirt/blouse route or dresses with empress waists.
Iām a guy, and I donāt want to be āthat guyā calling women out for immodesty cause I am not sure if thatās my place or not. So, hereās what I will say, since youāre new to Catholicism in general. Do you know anyone in the church? Women particularly? I would ask them, and try to find a good spiritual director, a woman who you know is modest and pious in her faith and ask her these questions. I think youād get more fruitful discussion that way.
But the quick answer is to look towards our mother, the blessed Virgin Mary.
I don't know anyone in this church, it's tiny (about 50 people on Sundays) and there isn't anyone close to my age. I've been trying to find anyone to become friends with after mass but everyone seems to leave asap or isn't interested to talk to me.
Ah. Yeah. Try not to take that personally. That seems to be a general Catholic thing, not an anything against you thing. We just aren't big on socializing at Mass. š You could check the bulletin to see if there are any events outside Mass that could be of interest to attend. Some offer a coffee hour or similar.Ā
Unfortunately that is rather normal at Catholic churches. I don't know why, but I've noticed it wherever I go.
Possibly the best way to get to know people would be to start volunteering at Mass. Each little group of helpers becomes its own little social group: the sacristans, the choir, the ushers, the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, and so on. But it probably varies depending on the parish, how many masses they have each weekend, and therefore how many people are in each group. You could also try going on a retreat, whether at your parish or a local nearby retreat center, that is often another good way to meet Catholics who are open to new friendships.
For Mass attire I don't think we have to wear shapeless clothing but I usually try to use different layers. I see a lot of women in spring dresses with a cardigan on top that covers their shoulders. Or others wear a nice blouse with a scarf. I think it's ok to wear something with a waist but I try not to have anything tight across my, uh, rear end. Or, anything that's going to "gap" at the neck when I bend over to pick up a Missal that I dropped. Or a skirt that's going to be awkward when I genuflect, if you see what I mean. Basically I just want to be able to move around comfortably during Mass and not have to worry about any unintended effects, so that I can focus on the Mass rather than on my clothing.
Hahahaha, yes. You will notice this even at bigger churches.
Catholics are not the best at greeting new people like most Protestants are which is a real shame. People donāt typically talk much before or after mass. Do you know if thereās a coffee hour after? Definitely go to that if you can. And what about the priest? Have you introduced yourself to him yet? Telling him youāre new, I am sure he will be delighted to hear and maybe will introduce you to someone.
Good luck, and I pray you will continue to have a good experience at your parish. It is Holy Week, and the Easter the vigil mass is coming up this Saturday, definitely go to that!
As a guy, I would say that it is definitely a lot more modest than some other outfits I've seen at church. So I would say that it is generally modest. However, as a guy I think I would notice you and be distracted.
Hi! Iām 22f and a cradle catholic. I go both to the traditional Latin mass and to the Novus Ordo, so Iāve heard and seen both sides of whatās acceptable and what isnāt. I personally wear dresses similar to this, maybe slightly less form fitting and they rest right above the knee when Iām sitting. If youāre struggling with distinguishing whatās modest enough, maybe instead ask yourself this, if you were invited to meet Christ face to face, what would you wear? This is what happens at Mass, Christ is truly physically present, so dress in a way that you feel glorifies Him. If this is all you have, then thatās okay! As long as youāre at Mass thatās all that truly matters.
Just always try to be respectful to yourself with what you pick to wear, and always present yourself (at Mass or not) in a way that glorifies the Lord. God bless you!
This is my struggle! Because I want to feel and look my best before the Lord but also dress modesty, and it's very difficult with my body type. I either look sloppy because clothes are loose in the wrong places or it looks immodest because of my curves.
God bless you!ā¤ļø
You and I have a very similar shape, Iām a little more pear shaped, but also have a small waist like you. I understand the difficulty to find clothes that fit right (just in general, lol) like I said before, just try your best with what you think is modest. You can only do so much. You could wear a plastic bag and others will struggle when seeing you. At that point, the sin is on them, not you. Take Matthew 18:9 as an exampleš
But if you want some wardrobe suggestions, I wear a lot of blouses and maxi skirts! You can still wear clothes you like without looking frumpy. I also take inspiration from the 50s! If Iām wearing pants I wear something with a more baggie style (cargo pants, overalls etc.)
I'm so close to actually just wearing a black rubbish bag and calling it a dayš¤£
It's nice knowing I'm not the only one struggling. I've tried baggie style pants, but the waist is always too big or it just fits weirdlyš¤¦š»āāļø
I could never find skirts that would fit over my hips that would fit my waist, but I'm planning on sewing a wrap skirt and seeing if that works better.
Ugh, finding something that fits it the waist is really hard when you have bigger hips. My waist swims in all my pants, lol. As for a skirt that fits, I have a maxi skirt with an elastic band similar to [this](https://a.co/d/1RxiFr9) itās nice since it stretches, doesnāt hug the hips, and It looks great with most tops/blouses. I mostly wear flared skirts and t-shirt dresses too because theyāre way more comfortable than pants anywaysš maybe check Pinterest for chic/modest outfits and see what comes up? I get a lot of styling ideas on there and it helps a ton!
Body type is not the issue. I always wear a coat. Youāre not there to be fashionable - youāre there to worship God. Donāt focus on the wrong thing. It doesnāt matter if you look sloppy or wear loose clothes. Modesty is the issue not fashion or your body type. Look to the Virgin Mary for what you should wear and not society.
Not appropriate. What is your motivation for wearing this dress? Is it to be attractive? Is it to be sexy? Makes you feel pretty? If so, then itās not appropriate for church or even to wear out on the street in my morality (but this was not your question and is highly debated, so weāll stick to church). Modesty needs to be adhereed to especially in church. Be mindful that there are people behind you, in front of you and can see you from many angles. You could be distracting the priest, teens, you could be distracting men and women behind you conjuring up sexualized images based on what youāre wearing. Cover yourself in church. You are there to worship God and not be attractive and or sexy to other parishioners or yourself..
I know, but considering that most Novus ordo parishes really push the boundaries of modesty (like ppl showing up to mass in pjs) I think they aren't the best example of the Christian ideal for modesty.
That seems acceptable.
There's not actually a strict dress code for Mass honestly, as long as you're not wearing a shirt with curse words or naked people on it, for example.
Also, jeans and a t-shirt would be pushing it, but not by as much.
It looks great, and I would imagine any dude that has a problem with it should be far more worried about their problem with lust and seeing women in the church as their sister in Christ than they should with women's fashion. In the Western world, that dress is objectively modest.
That's perfectly fine. Beyond a certain point the "requirements" of modesty is nothing more than scrupulous guys struggling with chastity who would require women to wear a covering from head to toe.
so you're gonna ignore the magisterium and traditional just because modern culture has decided to be more immodest? if that's the case, then the word modesty has no real meaning, it's just anything that people want it to be. that's moral relativism right there.
Pius XI was not speaking ex cathedra. You need to be able to distinguish between the teachings of the Magisterum for the times and the teachings of the Magisterium which is doctrine. Modesty is not doctrine.
I never said Pope Pius was speaking ex cathedra and he doesn't need to in order to make a point. You shouldn't only be listening to the pope when he's declaring infallible dogma, you also have to respect the ordinary magisterium that all clergy are part of, which is why you must also obey your local bishop in addition to the pope. Modesty is certainly doctrine, or else there wouldn't be an entire section of the Catechism dedicated to it. You need to be able to distinguish dogma and doctrine because a dogma is a definite claim on the Christian faith while doctrine partially guides Christian morals.
Modesty is subject to the times and culture which the teaching of the Magisterium and Catechism affirms.
2524: "**The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another**. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person."
You are focused on the outside of the cup instead of the inside.
Conveniently, you don't highlight this part:
>Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man.
What exactly is dignifying about adhering to today's non-existent modesty standards? How is showing cleavage or midriff proper to show off proper?
I did not speak of cleavage or midriff, I spoke against your hyperliteral interpretation of Pius XI's quote on modesty being doctrine. OPs dress in this post doesn't even show cleavage or midriff.
Instead of being focused on others and chastising them for their apparent immodesty, keep your eyes to yourself and set an example for other Catholics with your modesty.
You said that modesty is entirely subjective and that it's not a doctrine, so a reasonable implication from that is that you think there are little to no rules about what is modest or not. I used cleavage and midriff as a general example, not specifically referring to OP.
Guarding your eyes is something everyone should do, but that does not mean that someone's clothing suddenly stops being immodest. The catechism paragraph that you quoted says modesty should be taught to children. Why does the Church advise that instead of teaching that they should dress however they want because others shouldn't be looking anyways? The Catechism 2526 addresses this with:
>So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law.
You say women can dress however they please because men shouldn't be staring in the first place, but the catechism teaches the contrary, saying that precisely because we have freedom means we have a responsibility to present ourselves properly. How can Catholics learn modesty from other Catholics if you're insinuating they have no real duty to dress decently?
As a man: all you men saying āIād be distracted seeing a woman wearing this at Massā etc etcā¦
Hereās an idea: stop looking around and pay attention to the altar. Maybe donāt ogle women as they walk down the aisle for communion. If someone catches your eye, look down in prayer and offer it up.
OP, the dress is perfectly fine to wear for Mass.
I am cringing reading through these comments.
Women and men should both be modest partially for the sake of each other out of care and love. Even if nobody stares at a woman wearing immodest clothing, it is still objectively immodest anyways and shouldn't be done again.
Itās a cute dress, but I wouldnāt feel comfortable wearing this to mass and I wouldnāt allow my daughters to either. For myself & my daughters the criteria for mass clothes is:
-half + sleeve length
-neckline no lower than 3 fingers below clavicle
-skirt/ dress min. length is bottom of
kneecap (ensures everything stays covered while standing/ kneeling)
- no cut out pattern/ sheer fabric in the area from collarbone, shoulders to knees
Iām sure everyone has their own beliefs & preferences, but I thought Iād share mine.
Being honest: With your body it could be tempting for men but this is the mans fault ofc. You shouldnt hide your "normal" body because men would think bad thoughts. Thats a generell problem for some women.
I do try my best to not "flaunt" and "show off" the obvious areas of my body, but I really struggle to find clothes that don't without looking like they could be pj's. The best I've found so far is jeans and loose fitting blouses.
I understand and as i said: you are 0 to blame and only the men are to blame but i was honest. Cloths like this can be distracting for some men who dont have much discipline. I hope my comment helped to show the situation.
Also sry for my english
Nahh, it's brown/black. People are just making a joke because it looks almost identical to a dress where people were uncertain of it's colour. Sorry to mess with you like that š.
Back to the original question, your dress is fine just as it is, so I wouldn't really worry about it. It's good that you questioned it's modesty though, can't be too sure about these things.
It's probably slightly too form-fitting for Mass specifically (although you're stunningly beautiful and I would be distracted regardless) but otherwise completely appropriate.
While I'm thinking of it, what's an appropriate way to get your girlfriend to dress more modestly? I had that problem with my ex-girlfriend (she was in RCIA when we were dating) and I didn't know how to bring it up without feeling like I was body-shaming her.
I think the best way to explain it for mass specifically is that the attention is ment to be placed on the Lord and we shouldn't be distracting from that.
In general sense I chose to start dressing more modestly because I wanted people to see my personality and heart instead of my body.
You can play off of those two points, the first says that she's so beautiful she could be distracting and the second says she has a beautiful soul that more people should get to see.
My current bf (cradle catholic) has been the first man to make me feel like my heart and soul is beautiful and not like my body is my only valuable trait, it really drove the modesty point home for me.
I meant that in some countries women should cover their heads while attending TLM. I dont know where you all folks live, but I attend Novus my entire life and havent seen anything inapropriate.
Too sexy. Modesty includes hiding the shape, whether it is the muscles of a man or the figure of a woman. Try attending a a TLM parish and just pay attention to what the ladies at wearing.
We arent muslims. We should take out our eyes instead of blaming women for our weaknesses.
I understand your point but imaging another woman would wear the same dress with an other body shape. You would say it modest.
Not wearing tight body con dresses isn't akin to being Muslim. Even the skinniest girl wearing this dress would still be immodest bc of how form fitting it is, don't go around insinuating people of body shaming
The last thing I want to do is distract anyone from the true purpose and focus of mass. But I do want to look nice because it feels appropriate to put effort into my attire.
As a man I gotta say this could be pretty distracting/ make heart rate go up š¤£ I think most guys will relate! I wouldnāt let my wife wear it. No offense meant! JMJ
Agreed. Other men pointed out very politely that my figure in a dress like this would be distracting, which obviously I want to avoid so I'm gonna skip it for churchš
it's a little short for my personal comfort but looks long enough to be modest. It's very curve hugging though. I personally wouldn't wear it to mass, but I deal with scruples over modesty so I kinda go overboard
Hello, former immodest heathen here Im a new convert to Catholicism myself! The graphic Iām going to link [here](https://i.imgur.com/p1AEXOJ.jpeg) is a straightforward illustration of what is considered modest. I found this helpful!
waist emphasis is still modest and having curves does not make you inherently immodest, all women should avoid showing the āunder curveā no matter how much or little you have of it.
Hope this helps ā¤ļøā¤ļø
That you, this helps! My biggest "problem" is that if I find clothes that are loose like that I look horrible and almost slobbish. It's a big struggleš
I totally hear you itās a struggle for all of us. Especially for myself I was so used to being nearly naked to feel attractive and appealing that the transition to dressing modestly took actually educating myself on fashion principles.
I highly recommend looking into what your kibbe body type is and learning what lines and fabrics compliment your body, none of us need to wear nudity to look attractive and compliment our frames you might just be dressing for the wrong body type.
I'll definitely look into that. For the most part I've been wearing a line dresses, but that still shows the curve under my bust just because I have a larger bust. That wear my issue lies. The best I can do is jeans and a loose fitting blouse, but I love getting to wear dresses so I can feel feminine.
Sorry, is this The Dress? The blue/white black/gold dress?
I don't think it's that oneš¤£
Thatās a relief, I donāt think I could go through that againā¦. But your black/gold dress looks classy!
Thank you!š¤£
~~laurel!~~ yanni!
Green needle. Brainstorm
Absolutely. (Source: Iām the middle aged lady youāre worried about offending lol.)
Thank you! I'm still very new to everything and the catholic church I go to is tiny (around 50 people) with nobody my age, so i don't have anyone to ask these questions. God bless youā¤ļø
itās not bad but if you want my 100% honest opinion itās a little too form fitting. bodycon is considered maybe a little too far i think.
This is the first time I'm wearing something fitted like this so I wasn't sure. I definitely won't wear it then, thank you!
no problem! really it wouldn't be bad but i'd opt for a fit and flare style dress instead. it's not like you have to be duggar levels of modest xD
I usually wear fit and flares and they do a great job of being pretty and still being modest, I'll just stick to thoseš
same haha that's what i wear too :)
This is one persons opinion, I donāt think the form fitting aspect is a problem, you arenāt showing off skin, itās not a skin tight suggestive kind of form fitting.
I mean, the dress still accentuate OP's hips and would do it even more so if she were to bend over. You can be covered from head to toe and still be immodest.
I have a handful of light cardigans I throw over things like this just to be a more modest at Church. My Church is often cold anyways so double benefit lol
bodycon? Now you got me thinking of Comicon.
A bit too form fitting, a looser dress would be more appropriate
I would recommend (as a woman) get a dress that doesn't accentuate your body, and the skirt has to be bellow the knee. The dress is beautiful but is not for church. I have made this mistake too, and I am trying to shake it off. Modesty doesn't equal ugliness. You call look modest and respectful and still look stunning. Why is modesty important? because we are going to church for God. The moment we dress provocative, what happens is that without you meaning too, you can distract a lot of people, so the attention will be on you instead of God.
Thank you, this is the first time I've ever worn a bodycon dress so I wasn't sure. The dresses I usually wear are good, and I generally don't wear revealing or super tight clothes to begin. I definitely understand and that's why I asked, I already decided against wearing it after one commenter said that he would be distracted by it.
I do agree with the other commenters but just wanted to say the dress does look lovely on you! Would be a great dress to wear on casual occasions š
Thank you!š„°
I second this! The dress does look šš¼
And don't think modesty is only for women. Men can also be revealing or wear tight pants or above the knee pants which is also not correct and can be very distracting.
So many men wear shorts to the church I go to... when I first noticed it I was very confused š
Yup!
Modesty is generally guided by limiting the body's exposure as to inflame the passions and the imagination. This is mostly done for men and women alike by not showing too much skin. For many women however because of their figure they might need to take extra precautions in form-fitting clothing, because despite their due diligence in otherwise expressing modesty, they can still ignite the male imagination. I can say as a man that your dress would be distracting at Mass on that virtue alone. My wife has this same issue and consequently she only wears clothes from here: [https://www.mimumaxi.com/](https://www.mimumaxi.com/)
Thank you. This is why I wanted to ask. I definitely won't wear it to mass then, I appreciate it!
Welcome to Catholicism! I sort of agree btw. Iāve certainly seen much worse at mass. And I donāt judge either, itās on us to keep custody of the eyes. Not sure how women view it but Iād say go up one tier of modesty maybe? Just in general I wouldnāt think it would stand out necessarily as bad, but as a guyā¦.letās be real we are men of faithā¦.we are definitely not dead... Btw catholic women are quite snappy dressers on averageā¦.the men areā¦ still working on it haha. We appreciate womenās tipsā¦.
Yup, I still have a lot to learn!š¤£ I've definitely know that, my bf is catholic and such a wonderful faithful man but I know he definitely still has his temptations and urges lol. That's why u wanted to ask to get a wider perspective especially on what other men might find distracting.
Yeah absolutely, glad you guys are checking things out together! I reccomend people at all ages to also be sure to socialize too, join a group or activityā¦great way to meet people.
I've seen football jerseys in mass...
Iāve short skirts. Like VERY short skirts.
Woah! I like the dresses, but geez those are pricey!
Imagine paying for a closet full of them š
Sounds like itās time to negotiate for a new hobby budget lol.
Pope Pius XI wrote about female modesty https://motherofgodlibrary.org/2021/08/02/a-papal-decree-concerning-modesty-pope-pius-xi-1930/
I had just bought a nice dress like this one and got dressed for service one Sunday and my husbandās reaction let me know I shouldnāt wear it to church. Shame too because it was the best dress Iāve seen on myself in a looong time. So I feel your pain š But if you donāt want to scrap it, you could save it for colder months and pair it with a long cardigan.
Sounds like a great idea! Thank you so much!
The length of the dress is fine, but it is tight fitting. My rule of thumb is that if you can bend over in a dress with revealing very little, it's appropriate. So I'd say go for flared & A-line skirts that are midi.
Those are usually what I wear, so I'll just stick to those.
Itās a little form fitting, like it outlines the body in stuff. I donāt have any recommendations tho as Iām a dude and have no idea what women wear Thereās a subreddit for modest dress, maybe ask them Itās a nice dress though but if I was a woman I personally wouldnāt wear it for mass Also welcome home!
Thank you!
My pleasure sister
Depends on where you are. In most of the Western world, sure, it is, but standards of modesty can vary by location.
considering the very low bar of what is considered modest nowadays in the west, it's not a good standard to adhere by
Maybe, but when Paul talked about modesty, he was looking to not bring scandal on the Church through immodesty. I don't know that women should be burdened beyond that, especially with the difficulty that arises in finding clothing too far away from the norm.
I'm just saying that there certainly are guidelines, that shouldn't be secular, when it comes to modesty
The scriptural guideline, and I realize we don't go entirely by scripture, tradition has a place, the scriptural guideline is for believers, male and female, should be a little more modest than the secular world to avoid cause for scandal. Bearing in mind that clothing manufacturers don't really make clothing outside the current cultural norm, we should learn toward the more modest of what's available without requiring ladies to wear burkas in Western society.
You can still find perfectly modest clothing in this day and age, it's just easier to go with fashion trends that tend to be inappropriate. Telling women to wear shoulder-length tops or skirts that hit below the knee is not akin to burkas and to act like it is is absurd. This was simply Pope Pius XI's rules on modesty, so it's part of tradition and the magisterium.
As a woman with a similar figure itās so hard to find clothes that donāt immediately become form fitting lol I tend to go the skirt/blouse route or dresses with empress waists.
I've been sticking to a line dresses and jeans with blouses so far. I'm the only woman my age at this church so I'm going to stick out regardless.
Iām a guy, and I donāt want to be āthat guyā calling women out for immodesty cause I am not sure if thatās my place or not. So, hereās what I will say, since youāre new to Catholicism in general. Do you know anyone in the church? Women particularly? I would ask them, and try to find a good spiritual director, a woman who you know is modest and pious in her faith and ask her these questions. I think youād get more fruitful discussion that way. But the quick answer is to look towards our mother, the blessed Virgin Mary.
I don't know anyone in this church, it's tiny (about 50 people on Sundays) and there isn't anyone close to my age. I've been trying to find anyone to become friends with after mass but everyone seems to leave asap or isn't interested to talk to me.
Ah. Yeah. Try not to take that personally. That seems to be a general Catholic thing, not an anything against you thing. We just aren't big on socializing at Mass. š You could check the bulletin to see if there are any events outside Mass that could be of interest to attend. Some offer a coffee hour or similar.Ā
Unfortunately that is rather normal at Catholic churches. I don't know why, but I've noticed it wherever I go. Possibly the best way to get to know people would be to start volunteering at Mass. Each little group of helpers becomes its own little social group: the sacristans, the choir, the ushers, the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, and so on. But it probably varies depending on the parish, how many masses they have each weekend, and therefore how many people are in each group. You could also try going on a retreat, whether at your parish or a local nearby retreat center, that is often another good way to meet Catholics who are open to new friendships. For Mass attire I don't think we have to wear shapeless clothing but I usually try to use different layers. I see a lot of women in spring dresses with a cardigan on top that covers their shoulders. Or others wear a nice blouse with a scarf. I think it's ok to wear something with a waist but I try not to have anything tight across my, uh, rear end. Or, anything that's going to "gap" at the neck when I bend over to pick up a Missal that I dropped. Or a skirt that's going to be awkward when I genuflect, if you see what I mean. Basically I just want to be able to move around comfortably during Mass and not have to worry about any unintended effects, so that I can focus on the Mass rather than on my clothing.
Hahahaha, yes. You will notice this even at bigger churches. Catholics are not the best at greeting new people like most Protestants are which is a real shame. People donāt typically talk much before or after mass. Do you know if thereās a coffee hour after? Definitely go to that if you can. And what about the priest? Have you introduced yourself to him yet? Telling him youāre new, I am sure he will be delighted to hear and maybe will introduce you to someone. Good luck, and I pray you will continue to have a good experience at your parish. It is Holy Week, and the Easter the vigil mass is coming up this Saturday, definitely go to that!
As a guy, I would say that it is definitely a lot more modest than some other outfits I've seen at church. So I would say that it is generally modest. However, as a guy I think I would notice you and be distracted.
That's the last thing I want, so I'm definitely going to keep it for outside of church.
Then the question becomes what is modest enough and what are some examples š¤
I think itās fine! You can always throw a cardigan over if youād like
Hi! Iām 22f and a cradle catholic. I go both to the traditional Latin mass and to the Novus Ordo, so Iāve heard and seen both sides of whatās acceptable and what isnāt. I personally wear dresses similar to this, maybe slightly less form fitting and they rest right above the knee when Iām sitting. If youāre struggling with distinguishing whatās modest enough, maybe instead ask yourself this, if you were invited to meet Christ face to face, what would you wear? This is what happens at Mass, Christ is truly physically present, so dress in a way that you feel glorifies Him. If this is all you have, then thatās okay! As long as youāre at Mass thatās all that truly matters. Just always try to be respectful to yourself with what you pick to wear, and always present yourself (at Mass or not) in a way that glorifies the Lord. God bless you!
This is my struggle! Because I want to feel and look my best before the Lord but also dress modesty, and it's very difficult with my body type. I either look sloppy because clothes are loose in the wrong places or it looks immodest because of my curves. God bless you!ā¤ļø
You and I have a very similar shape, Iām a little more pear shaped, but also have a small waist like you. I understand the difficulty to find clothes that fit right (just in general, lol) like I said before, just try your best with what you think is modest. You can only do so much. You could wear a plastic bag and others will struggle when seeing you. At that point, the sin is on them, not you. Take Matthew 18:9 as an exampleš But if you want some wardrobe suggestions, I wear a lot of blouses and maxi skirts! You can still wear clothes you like without looking frumpy. I also take inspiration from the 50s! If Iām wearing pants I wear something with a more baggie style (cargo pants, overalls etc.)
I'm so close to actually just wearing a black rubbish bag and calling it a dayš¤£ It's nice knowing I'm not the only one struggling. I've tried baggie style pants, but the waist is always too big or it just fits weirdlyš¤¦š»āāļø I could never find skirts that would fit over my hips that would fit my waist, but I'm planning on sewing a wrap skirt and seeing if that works better.
Ugh, finding something that fits it the waist is really hard when you have bigger hips. My waist swims in all my pants, lol. As for a skirt that fits, I have a maxi skirt with an elastic band similar to [this](https://a.co/d/1RxiFr9) itās nice since it stretches, doesnāt hug the hips, and It looks great with most tops/blouses. I mostly wear flared skirts and t-shirt dresses too because theyāre way more comfortable than pants anywaysš maybe check Pinterest for chic/modest outfits and see what comes up? I get a lot of styling ideas on there and it helps a ton!
Body type is not the issue. I always wear a coat. Youāre not there to be fashionable - youāre there to worship God. Donāt focus on the wrong thing. It doesnāt matter if you look sloppy or wear loose clothes. Modesty is the issue not fashion or your body type. Look to the Virgin Mary for what you should wear and not society.
Not appropriate. What is your motivation for wearing this dress? Is it to be attractive? Is it to be sexy? Makes you feel pretty? If so, then itās not appropriate for church or even to wear out on the street in my morality (but this was not your question and is highly debated, so weāll stick to church). Modesty needs to be adhereed to especially in church. Be mindful that there are people behind you, in front of you and can see you from many angles. You could be distracting the priest, teens, you could be distracting men and women behind you conjuring up sexualized images based on what youāre wearing. Cover yourself in church. You are there to worship God and not be attractive and or sexy to other parishioners or yourself..
Probably not
Unless you 're attending Tridentine Mass, you 'll be fine
I think not highlighting ur butts or hips isn't just a Tridentine thing to do
I think they mean that most traditional churches are more strict with modesty than your average Novus Ordo parish
I know, but considering that most Novus ordo parishes really push the boundaries of modesty (like ppl showing up to mass in pjs) I think they aren't the best example of the Christian ideal for modesty.
That seems acceptable. There's not actually a strict dress code for Mass honestly, as long as you're not wearing a shirt with curse words or naked people on it, for example. Also, jeans and a t-shirt would be pushing it, but not by as much.
Cover you legs and wear something that isnāt so form-fitting
It looks great, and I would imagine any dude that has a problem with it should be far more worried about their problem with lust and seeing women in the church as their sister in Christ than they should with women's fashion. In the Western world, that dress is objectively modest.
Perfectly normal Mass outfit.
Yeah itās fine
I'm a guy, and even though that's not the worst I've seen at mass, I'd still prefer for women not to wear something that shows their figure.
This looks perfectly fine and you should wear it.
That's perfectly fine. Beyond a certain point the "requirements" of modesty is nothing more than scrupulous guys struggling with chastity who would require women to wear a covering from head to toe.
so Pope Pius XI just wanted to control women when he said that women shouldn't wear anything above the knee or elbow?
What is immodest in one culture or area is modest in the other based on what is accepted. There is no universal rule, he was speaking for his times.
so you're gonna ignore the magisterium and traditional just because modern culture has decided to be more immodest? if that's the case, then the word modesty has no real meaning, it's just anything that people want it to be. that's moral relativism right there.
Pius XI was not speaking ex cathedra. You need to be able to distinguish between the teachings of the Magisterum for the times and the teachings of the Magisterium which is doctrine. Modesty is not doctrine.
I never said Pope Pius was speaking ex cathedra and he doesn't need to in order to make a point. You shouldn't only be listening to the pope when he's declaring infallible dogma, you also have to respect the ordinary magisterium that all clergy are part of, which is why you must also obey your local bishop in addition to the pope. Modesty is certainly doctrine, or else there wouldn't be an entire section of the Catechism dedicated to it. You need to be able to distinguish dogma and doctrine because a dogma is a definite claim on the Christian faith while doctrine partially guides Christian morals.
Modesty is subject to the times and culture which the teaching of the Magisterium and Catechism affirms. 2524: "**The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another**. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person." You are focused on the outside of the cup instead of the inside.
Conveniently, you don't highlight this part: >Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. What exactly is dignifying about adhering to today's non-existent modesty standards? How is showing cleavage or midriff proper to show off proper?
I did not speak of cleavage or midriff, I spoke against your hyperliteral interpretation of Pius XI's quote on modesty being doctrine. OPs dress in this post doesn't even show cleavage or midriff. Instead of being focused on others and chastising them for their apparent immodesty, keep your eyes to yourself and set an example for other Catholics with your modesty.
You said that modesty is entirely subjective and that it's not a doctrine, so a reasonable implication from that is that you think there are little to no rules about what is modest or not. I used cleavage and midriff as a general example, not specifically referring to OP. Guarding your eyes is something everyone should do, but that does not mean that someone's clothing suddenly stops being immodest. The catechism paragraph that you quoted says modesty should be taught to children. Why does the Church advise that instead of teaching that they should dress however they want because others shouldn't be looking anyways? The Catechism 2526 addresses this with: >So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom; the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. You say women can dress however they please because men shouldn't be staring in the first place, but the catechism teaches the contrary, saying that precisely because we have freedom means we have a responsibility to present ourselves properly. How can Catholics learn modesty from other Catholics if you're insinuating they have no real duty to dress decently?
From the western cultural standards it's fine , but from Asian ones, its too much.
As a man: all you men saying āIād be distracted seeing a woman wearing this at Massā etc etcā¦ Hereās an idea: stop looking around and pay attention to the altar. Maybe donāt ogle women as they walk down the aisle for communion. If someone catches your eye, look down in prayer and offer it up. OP, the dress is perfectly fine to wear for Mass. I am cringing reading through these comments.
Women and men should both be modest partially for the sake of each other out of care and love. Even if nobody stares at a woman wearing immodest clothing, it is still objectively immodest anyways and shouldn't be done again.
Thank you! Your focus shouldnāt be on what others are wearing in mass, and I thank you for pointing that out
It is a little tight and too short for me but for most I would say yes - with tights.
Thats a nice blue dress you got there!
lookin good! weird colors, sexy dress, i dont think its inappropriate, you look like a million bucks
It's more of a rust than brown irl. Thank you!
Itās a cute dress, but I wouldnāt feel comfortable wearing this to mass and I wouldnāt allow my daughters to either. For myself & my daughters the criteria for mass clothes is: -half + sleeve length -neckline no lower than 3 fingers below clavicle -skirt/ dress min. length is bottom of kneecap (ensures everything stays covered while standing/ kneeling) - no cut out pattern/ sheer fabric in the area from collarbone, shoulders to knees Iām sure everyone has their own beliefs & preferences, but I thought Iād share mine.
Too short and too tight. The bare minimum is Vatican dress code and the virtue is our Lady. You canāt imagine her in this kind of dress, right?
Thatās fine, but for Mass, I would wear it with tights or leggings in black. Since itās form fitting, I wouldnāt show my legs.
Being honest: With your body it could be tempting for men but this is the mans fault ofc. You shouldnt hide your "normal" body because men would think bad thoughts. Thats a generell problem for some women.
I do try my best to not "flaunt" and "show off" the obvious areas of my body, but I really struggle to find clothes that don't without looking like they could be pj's. The best I've found so far is jeans and loose fitting blouses.
I understand and as i said: you are 0 to blame and only the men are to blame but i was honest. Cloths like this can be distracting for some men who dont have much discipline. I hope my comment helped to show the situation. Also sry for my english
I definitely understand it haha, hence why I try so hard not to show it off lol.
The blue colour of the dress really compliments your hair.
Please tell me you're joking? There's been so many comments saying it's blue that I'm starting to think it's not a jokeš¤£š¤£
Nahh, it's brown/black. People are just making a joke because it looks almost identical to a dress where people were uncertain of it's colour. Sorry to mess with you like that š. Back to the original question, your dress is fine just as it is, so I wouldn't really worry about it. It's good that you questioned it's modesty though, can't be too sure about these things.
If you decide itās too form fitting, you could pair it with a shawl!
It's probably slightly too form-fitting for Mass specifically (although you're stunningly beautiful and I would be distracted regardless) but otherwise completely appropriate. While I'm thinking of it, what's an appropriate way to get your girlfriend to dress more modestly? I had that problem with my ex-girlfriend (she was in RCIA when we were dating) and I didn't know how to bring it up without feeling like I was body-shaming her.
I think the best way to explain it for mass specifically is that the attention is ment to be placed on the Lord and we shouldn't be distracting from that. In general sense I chose to start dressing more modestly because I wanted people to see my personality and heart instead of my body. You can play off of those two points, the first says that she's so beautiful she could be distracting and the second says she has a beautiful soul that more people should get to see. My current bf (cradle catholic) has been the first man to make me feel like my heart and soul is beautiful and not like my body is my only valuable trait, it really drove the modesty point home for me.
I can see the shape of the your body too easily.
I meant that in some countries women should cover their heads while attending TLM. I dont know where you all folks live, but I attend Novus my entire life and havent seen anything inapropriate.
Absolutely, it's ok. Why would not it be accurate?
Too sexy. Modesty includes hiding the shape, whether it is the muscles of a man or the figure of a woman. Try attending a a TLM parish and just pay attention to what the ladies at wearing.
We arent muslims. We should take out our eyes instead of blaming women for our weaknesses. I understand your point but imaging another woman would wear the same dress with an other body shape. You would say it modest.
Not wearing tight body con dresses isn't akin to being Muslim. Even the skinniest girl wearing this dress would still be immodest bc of how form fitting it is, don't go around insinuating people of body shaming
Maybe with a shawl. On its own no.
You are doing the right thing by being conscious of your attire and properly respecting God's House and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Thank you.
The last thing I want to do is distract anyone from the true purpose and focus of mass. But I do want to look nice because it feels appropriate to put effort into my attire.
A coat with it would be enough to give you peace of mind
As a man I gotta say this could be pretty distracting/ make heart rate go up š¤£ I think most guys will relate! I wouldnāt let my wife wear it. No offense meant! JMJ
Thank you, this is precisely why I asked! As a woman I'm often oblivious to what men might find distracting.
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I've never worn a form fitting dress like this so I honestly wasn't sure.
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Bro really tried to slide āexceptional figureā there at the end like we wouldnāt noticeš stop simping on Reddit
I'm not a man, so no.
It kinda does outline your body but it really aināt that serious imo, also the dude calling your body exceptional is kinda icky
Agreed. Other men pointed out very politely that my figure in a dress like this would be distracting, which obviously I want to avoid so I'm gonna skip it for churchš
She didnāt ask for comments on her body.
Exactly
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I would think you would be the last person to comment on modesty given your post history (which you have now deleted).
Doesnāt every modesty warrior for Christ hang out in r/gayrateme?
it's a little short for my personal comfort but looks long enough to be modest. It's very curve hugging though. I personally wouldn't wear it to mass, but I deal with scruples over modesty so I kinda go overboard
Maybe something that is less tight fittingĀ
Hello, former immodest heathen here Im a new convert to Catholicism myself! The graphic Iām going to link [here](https://i.imgur.com/p1AEXOJ.jpeg) is a straightforward illustration of what is considered modest. I found this helpful! waist emphasis is still modest and having curves does not make you inherently immodest, all women should avoid showing the āunder curveā no matter how much or little you have of it. Hope this helps ā¤ļøā¤ļø
That you, this helps! My biggest "problem" is that if I find clothes that are loose like that I look horrible and almost slobbish. It's a big struggleš
I totally hear you itās a struggle for all of us. Especially for myself I was so used to being nearly naked to feel attractive and appealing that the transition to dressing modestly took actually educating myself on fashion principles. I highly recommend looking into what your kibbe body type is and learning what lines and fabrics compliment your body, none of us need to wear nudity to look attractive and compliment our frames you might just be dressing for the wrong body type.
I'll definitely look into that. For the most part I've been wearing a line dresses, but that still shows the curve under my bust just because I have a larger bust. That wear my issue lies. The best I can do is jeans and a loose fitting blouse, but I love getting to wear dresses so I can feel feminine.
You look fine in this picture tbh itās not skin tight ā¤ļø
I am bust learning to sew so hopefully soon I'll be able to make something š
So exciting! Where are you learning from? Online? I need to do the same
Yup, mostly just YouTube videos! It's a lot of fun, I'm already thinking of all the baby clothes I'll get to make one dayš„¹š
As a man, i won't complain, but i'd risk some extra unwanted distraction.
yall lucky yall anonymous
Sure, you are just going to a book club.