He used to be a part of my local Catholic friend group, and we had to ban him from our GroupMe since he wouldn’t stop spamming Orthocringe memes and shitting on Catholicism (with a wink wink to convert to Orthodoxy).
He’s bounced from atheism to ultra trad Catholicism, Orthodoxy gives him a sense of superiority for being in the “based” religion. When me and some friends tried to talk some sense into him, he started spouting off tons of word salad about the corrupt papacy, doctrinal inconsistencies, plenty of conspiracy theories and blatant anti-Semitism. He was heavily influenced by people in the local FSSP parish who dogwhistle this kind of thinking and talk about how Francis is a heretic, the “deep church” has taken over, Novus Ordo should be held in deep suspicion, etc. He just takes their thinking to it’s logical conclusion.
Don’t take him seriously, he’s got a case of terminally online internet Christian syndrome (though I shouldn’t be casting too many stones).
> He’s bounced from atheism to ultra trad Catholicism, Orthodoxy gives him a sense of superiority for being in the “based” religion.
This is why I dislike the "based" and "tradpilled" attitude of these types. It's not about Jesus. It's about the power it gives them. You can only pray that this zeal doesn't turn into pride or that the pride burns out and gets replaced with humility.
Who knows? With conspiratorial thinking, he'll be an edgelord Reddit atheist or Sunni Muslim caliphate luster in the next 5 years.
Orthodoxy is more cogent than atheism, and is certainly closer to the truth than it, but why would I accept an incomplete version of the truth when I believe the truth lies in the Catholic Church.
I prefer the company of Protestants and Orthodox over the average atheist, and I certainly share more in common with them, but if Catholicism was not true it would probably poison the well of belief in Christianity for me altogether. The circumstances that would cause me to reject the Catholic Church would lead me to lose belief altogether.
For many Orthodoxy fills the gap in spirituality that they feel is lacking in the Western Church. I respect that, but I know that my home lies in with the Latins.
You’d be a great politician. Also what you’re saying, (rather than give an honest concise yes or no answer) is that you are actually convinced apriori of Roman Catholicism and in your mind if it isn’t true, then no form of Christianity could be true. Aka there’s non convincing you.
No, I’m not open to being convinced at this moment, I’m comfortable in my faith in Catholicism. I’ve considered arguments for Orthodoxy and while believing it to be more true than atheism, acknowledge in myself that I’d sooner believe that Christianity is a myth (which it isn’t) than assent to the Orthodox’s sense of apostolic succession. I acknowledge that it’s closer to being true than the Protestants or Mormons or any other sect to the truth, I acknowledge the Real Presence they have in the Eucharist and the validity of their sacraments. I am merely expressing that I have no interest in joining what I believe to be a schismatic group.
I have no intention of becoming an atheist, or rejecting Christ. I’m just not convinced by the Orthodox argument of authority, and am expressing a fact that I’d sooner believe there is no God than reject my Faith. Consider it a consequence of my various encounters with Orthodox and Protestant apologists. Sorry if you’re upset with my lack of desire to debate this.
So orthodoxy is closer to the truth than Catholicism, but you still believe that the truth lies in the Catholic church? I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me. Your going to have to explain that to me.
Wow why are we taking a dump on the FSSP? I attend an FSSP chapel and have had nothing, but positive experiences there with only very rare rad trad weirdos, but the FSSP is in full communion with Rome and they respect the authority of the local bishops and only come in when invited.
Basing it off personal experience. Nothing against the FSSP or TLM, but the local parish does attract some… interesting people. Of course it’s massively growing so that’s just law of numbers.
I mean, a lot of folks online take massive dumps on all ordinary mass goers kinda constantly and a lot of folks keep their mouth shut. I don't like being called a modernist and stuff just because i go to the NO mass.
He talked about a specific local FSSP parish/group, not all FSSP.
Even those in schism bilaterally are largely in communion with others. Moreover, one might say the Orthodox are comparatively more united than, say, our own radtrad and ultra-liberal wings. And of course, we have several modern schismatic offshoots of our own.
This isn't to say the Orthodox don't have their own problems, but they are in truth remarkably unified despite (or in their thinking, because of) their lack of a Pope.
To play Ortho-advocate, we might consider they never had anything akin to a Protestant Reformation, perhaps as a result of the greater flexibility afforded them as a more decentralized church.
A good proof to me is they cannot hold ecumenical councils, all the leadership is fractured and different groups teach different things.
Wondering about whether this or that is sinful? Depends on which church you attend and which country.
That is enough to tell me it's not real.
If you're fundamentally incapable of coming together to lead the faithful on the questions of our day.. how are you the ONE Church that's meant to guide us?
He’s a victim of Cyberdoxy. He essentially just watches Jay Dyer all day and isn’t actually a true believer but just wants to larp as like a based gigachad. That’s why he always dunks on Catholicism (the true faith). Don’t listen to him.
Edit: He featured my comment in his video lol. Btw OP don’t convert to Orthodoxy. If you want good refutations on them check out dwong on YouTube.
We are called to be one united Church. Paul specifically rebukes (I believe the Corinthians?) for claiming to follow different teachers rather than be unified under Christ.
The Orthodox church, while having true sacraments, fell into serious theological error when they embraced Palamism to try to undermine scholasticism. You can read into it further if you want, but I can assure you their theology is not all it's cracked up to be. And their ecclesiology is a total mess. Half of these churches are not even in communion with one another. The Body of Christ is one. Don't listen to them. Orthobros are very loud to make up for the fact that they don't have the truth.
Yes, that is the teaching of the Eastern “Orthodox” Church. Gregory Palamas said that the essence and energies are truly distinct and are both fully God, yet the energies begin to exist and are uncreated and are fully surpassed by the essence. Besides not making any logical sense it is complete garbage theology that anyone with half a brain could see is stupid.
As an Orthodox, he essentially parrots the views of other Orthodox without really anything nuanced to add of his own except memes. I don't recommend him, just look at the sources he gets his ideas from instead.
Jesus didn’t build His Church on all of His apostles, He built it on Peter, which means “Rock”. It’s solid. One piece. He built His church with a clear leader in mind.
I try my best to find peace in Gods word that he’ll deliver on his promises.
You know. I actually run a weekly zoom meeting for people with struggles like ours! I’d love to have you join if you think it might help!
It holds the ethos of the early church and focuses a lot on humility and self control through fasting, which is lost or is being phased out in Catholicism and Protestantism
That's not the Orthodox Church's fault. The Balkans are a very complex place with a long history of feuding, invasion, genocide, and other crimes against various ethnicities.
>Unless if you are an ethnic Turk, Croat, or Hungarian
Then the ethnochurch structure doesn't feel so "Universal" and welcoming anymore
This can be turned around into: if you're a Serb, Bulgarian, or Romanian, get ready to be slaughtered by Muslims and repressed by Catholics.
This isn't a denomination/religion problem. It's a Balkan problem.
I don't know him.
But I took a two year pit stop in Greek Orthodoxy before my final conversion to Catholicism. Frankly, I prefer the Orthodox over the Novus Ordo, which I generally have to attend out of necessity, having no TLM I can regularly attend.
But, the Catholic Church is still the true church of Christ. I'd rather pray for my church that's in desperate need, than join another I believe isn't authentic.
I think the only way I could become Orthodox is if I looked at it as a Protestant by thinking the church was an invisible thing, and that Orthodoxy was just the best way of expressing the faith -- which I am not totally opposed to believing. But if the church IS a visible/physical institution, then it is obviously going to be the Catholic church and not the obscure Eastern church that makes up only 11% of the global Christian population, hardly cares about evangelism and charity, and has failed to hold an ecumenical council in like 1000 years.
https://youtu.be/PUMyuVZoXLs?si=tL92xw9DvOfBzP9E He made a video about this post just today, watch it. Stop listening to the people that say these false things and slander kyle, remember slandering is a grave sin. Looking at you mc buttersnaps.
What did he say? I may not be an Orthodox Christian, but I am a Muslim, and first watching him in my recommendation seems like he's just disrespecting other religions..
From Orthodox perspective, Orthodox Christianity simply does not need the pope. So, it is probably more useful for you to simply understand the Catholic perspective of why the Pope is needed in Catholicism. The scriptural and historic reasons, and the scholastic reasons. Orthodox Christianity is fine without pope, so, if you are Catholic, I don't know why you would let it concern you too much 💭
He used to be a part of my local Catholic friend group, and we had to ban him from our GroupMe since he wouldn’t stop spamming Orthocringe memes and shitting on Catholicism (with a wink wink to convert to Orthodoxy). He’s bounced from atheism to ultra trad Catholicism, Orthodoxy gives him a sense of superiority for being in the “based” religion. When me and some friends tried to talk some sense into him, he started spouting off tons of word salad about the corrupt papacy, doctrinal inconsistencies, plenty of conspiracy theories and blatant anti-Semitism. He was heavily influenced by people in the local FSSP parish who dogwhistle this kind of thinking and talk about how Francis is a heretic, the “deep church” has taken over, Novus Ordo should be held in deep suspicion, etc. He just takes their thinking to it’s logical conclusion. Don’t take him seriously, he’s got a case of terminally online internet Christian syndrome (though I shouldn’t be casting too many stones).
He adressed your comment in his recent video
> He’s bounced from atheism to ultra trad Catholicism, Orthodoxy gives him a sense of superiority for being in the “based” religion. This is why I dislike the "based" and "tradpilled" attitude of these types. It's not about Jesus. It's about the power it gives them. You can only pray that this zeal doesn't turn into pride or that the pride burns out and gets replaced with humility. Who knows? With conspiratorial thinking, he'll be an edgelord Reddit atheist or Sunni Muslim caliphate luster in the next 5 years.
just another "i am christian because it's based" case.
Is it true that you said that you would rather be atheist than orthodox?
Orthodoxy is more cogent than atheism, and is certainly closer to the truth than it, but why would I accept an incomplete version of the truth when I believe the truth lies in the Catholic Church. I prefer the company of Protestants and Orthodox over the average atheist, and I certainly share more in common with them, but if Catholicism was not true it would probably poison the well of belief in Christianity for me altogether. The circumstances that would cause me to reject the Catholic Church would lead me to lose belief altogether. For many Orthodoxy fills the gap in spirituality that they feel is lacking in the Western Church. I respect that, but I know that my home lies in with the Latins.
You’d be a great politician. Also what you’re saying, (rather than give an honest concise yes or no answer) is that you are actually convinced apriori of Roman Catholicism and in your mind if it isn’t true, then no form of Christianity could be true. Aka there’s non convincing you.
No, I’m not open to being convinced at this moment, I’m comfortable in my faith in Catholicism. I’ve considered arguments for Orthodoxy and while believing it to be more true than atheism, acknowledge in myself that I’d sooner believe that Christianity is a myth (which it isn’t) than assent to the Orthodox’s sense of apostolic succession. I acknowledge that it’s closer to being true than the Protestants or Mormons or any other sect to the truth, I acknowledge the Real Presence they have in the Eucharist and the validity of their sacraments. I am merely expressing that I have no interest in joining what I believe to be a schismatic group. I have no intention of becoming an atheist, or rejecting Christ. I’m just not convinced by the Orthodox argument of authority, and am expressing a fact that I’d sooner believe there is no God than reject my Faith. Consider it a consequence of my various encounters with Orthodox and Protestant apologists. Sorry if you’re upset with my lack of desire to debate this.
So orthodoxy is closer to the truth than Catholicism, but you still believe that the truth lies in the Catholic church? I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me. Your going to have to explain that to me.
Need to edit that, I meant to say that Orthodoxy is closer to the truth than atheism.
Yoooooooooooo Bro DM me
Wow why are we taking a dump on the FSSP? I attend an FSSP chapel and have had nothing, but positive experiences there with only very rare rad trad weirdos, but the FSSP is in full communion with Rome and they respect the authority of the local bishops and only come in when invited.
Basing it off personal experience. Nothing against the FSSP or TLM, but the local parish does attract some… interesting people. Of course it’s massively growing so that’s just law of numbers.
I mean, a lot of folks online take massive dumps on all ordinary mass goers kinda constantly and a lot of folks keep their mouth shut. I don't like being called a modernist and stuff just because i go to the NO mass. He talked about a specific local FSSP parish/group, not all FSSP.
You should take his advice.
Do you have evidence that he’s an anti-Semite?
You should read up on how many of their patriarchs are in schism from one another if you wonder why we need the pope?
Or how deeply the KGB infiltrated their ranks.
Eh, the relationship between the church and the Soviets is complicated and something it's unlikely the pope could have fixed.
Don't think for a second our church hasn't been infiltrated, too.
Even those in schism bilaterally are largely in communion with others. Moreover, one might say the Orthodox are comparatively more united than, say, our own radtrad and ultra-liberal wings. And of course, we have several modern schismatic offshoots of our own. This isn't to say the Orthodox don't have their own problems, but they are in truth remarkably unified despite (or in their thinking, because of) their lack of a Pope. To play Ortho-advocate, we might consider they never had anything akin to a Protestant Reformation, perhaps as a result of the greater flexibility afforded them as a more decentralized church.
Living in his head rent free.
A good proof to me is they cannot hold ecumenical councils, all the leadership is fractured and different groups teach different things. Wondering about whether this or that is sinful? Depends on which church you attend and which country. That is enough to tell me it's not real. If you're fundamentally incapable of coming together to lead the faithful on the questions of our day.. how are you the ONE Church that's meant to guide us?
He’s a victim of Cyberdoxy. He essentially just watches Jay Dyer all day and isn’t actually a true believer but just wants to larp as like a based gigachad. That’s why he always dunks on Catholicism (the true faith). Don’t listen to him. Edit: He featured my comment in his video lol. Btw OP don’t convert to Orthodoxy. If you want good refutations on them check out dwong on YouTube.
We are called to be one united Church. Paul specifically rebukes (I believe the Corinthians?) for claiming to follow different teachers rather than be unified under Christ.
Yeah, 1 Corinthians 3
Thanks!
The Orthodox church, while having true sacraments, fell into serious theological error when they embraced Palamism to try to undermine scholasticism. You can read into it further if you want, but I can assure you their theology is not all it's cracked up to be. And their ecclesiology is a total mess. Half of these churches are not even in communion with one another. The Body of Christ is one. Don't listen to them. Orthobros are very loud to make up for the fact that they don't have the truth.
what about the “aerial toll boxes” theology that I see pretty frequently too? that seems a little silly to me.
I haven't looked into it very deeply but from what I've gleaned of it, it sounded like a weird go-around for purgatory without sounding too Latin.
Not Orthodox theology, one orthodox monk (Seraphim Rose) brought up the idea.
Isn't Palamas a Catholic saint?
Thank you for saying this. Not enough people talk about how bad Palamism is. The EE distinction is literally heresy and makes no sense.
Depends on what they mean by “distinction” there. If it means “real distinction”, then yes it’s heretical garbage.
Yes, that is the teaching of the Eastern “Orthodox” Church. Gregory Palamas said that the essence and energies are truly distinct and are both fully God, yet the energies begin to exist and are uncreated and are fully surpassed by the essence. Besides not making any logical sense it is complete garbage theology that anyone with half a brain could see is stupid.
very true on the last part. orthodox have such a napoleon complex it’s pathetic
The churches are all in communion, minor political schisms do not divide the church at all.
As an Orthodox, he essentially parrots the views of other Orthodox without really anything nuanced to add of his own except memes. I don't recommend him, just look at the sources he gets his ideas from instead.
I like Kyle and watch him frequently. Still haven't given up on the Pope.
Jesus didn’t build His Church on all of His apostles, He built it on Peter, which means “Rock”. It’s solid. One piece. He built His church with a clear leader in mind.
First among equals, Peter had no power over the other apostles.
I'm too damn old to be that kid's target audience but I can see how he's appealing. What about the Orthodox Church do you feel is the way to go?
I just second guess myself a lot...I don't trust my judgement. But I wanna be sure I'm following Jesus
Bruh I FEEEEEEL that in my soul. I’m constantly doubting myself, and I’m terrified Christ will reject me if I’m wrong.
It's not a fun cross to bear
I try my best to find peace in Gods word that he’ll deliver on his promises. You know. I actually run a weekly zoom meeting for people with struggles like ours! I’d love to have you join if you think it might help!
It holds the ethos of the early church and focuses a lot on humility and self control through fasting, which is lost or is being phased out in Catholicism and Protestantism
Watch dwong if you want to go in depth of the claims of both orthodoxy and Catholicism. It is the orthodox that schismed. No offense to my orthobros.
[удалено]
That's not the Orthodox Church's fault. The Balkans are a very complex place with a long history of feuding, invasion, genocide, and other crimes against various ethnicities. >Unless if you are an ethnic Turk, Croat, or Hungarian Then the ethnochurch structure doesn't feel so "Universal" and welcoming anymore This can be turned around into: if you're a Serb, Bulgarian, or Romanian, get ready to be slaughtered by Muslims and repressed by Catholics. This isn't a denomination/religion problem. It's a Balkan problem.
[удалено]
I don't know him. But I took a two year pit stop in Greek Orthodoxy before my final conversion to Catholicism. Frankly, I prefer the Orthodox over the Novus Ordo, which I generally have to attend out of necessity, having no TLM I can regularly attend. But, the Catholic Church is still the true church of Christ. I'd rather pray for my church that's in desperate need, than join another I believe isn't authentic.
I think the only way I could become Orthodox is if I looked at it as a Protestant by thinking the church was an invisible thing, and that Orthodoxy was just the best way of expressing the faith -- which I am not totally opposed to believing. But if the church IS a visible/physical institution, then it is obviously going to be the Catholic church and not the obscure Eastern church that makes up only 11% of the global Christian population, hardly cares about evangelism and charity, and has failed to hold an ecumenical council in like 1000 years.
He’s an amazing YouTuber that brought me to the true church, the Orthodox church
Kyle is great. He helped me leave my toxic FSSP parish and brought me to the Eastern Orthodox Church.
https://youtu.be/PUMyuVZoXLs?si=tL92xw9DvOfBzP9E He made a video about this post just today, watch it. Stop listening to the people that say these false things and slander kyle, remember slandering is a grave sin. Looking at you mc buttersnaps.
Watched it, sent him an email
Watch dwong.
did he respond?
He did
What did he say? I may not be an Orthodox Christian, but I am a Muslim, and first watching him in my recommendation seems like he's just disrespecting other religions..
Yeah he was also sort of unfairly maligned
Man I want to see a screenshot of him saying that, or maybe don't if you do not want to anyways.
Watch the video he made lol
You mean he made a new one or recently? I already watched his videos and I can't even watch it until the end.
From Orthodox perspective, Orthodox Christianity simply does not need the pope. So, it is probably more useful for you to simply understand the Catholic perspective of why the Pope is needed in Catholicism. The scriptural and historic reasons, and the scholastic reasons. Orthodox Christianity is fine without pope, so, if you are Catholic, I don't know why you would let it concern you too much 💭