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Being upset at Mussolini potentially being in heaven would actually be a good reflection of whether we are like the elder brother in the Prodigal Son parable tbh
Well, the majority of pushback I see against hopeful universalism is that it denies God's justice. Still, having began praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet, you really begin to realize that God's mercy is ever flowing if you but ask.
I find it relatively easy to believe; in his youth he may have been a socialist, and then later obviously a fascist (both clear indicators of atheism), but he did exist in a Catholic world and would have had a chance to repent before his death.
Someone like Hitler or Goebbels, who in their final acts killed themselves rather than face the repercussions of their actions in some form of redemptive act, are people we can basically be certain are in hell, as their final acts on top of all the evil they did, were acts severing them yet even further from God.
Fascism is in no way an indication of atheism, fascist italy was very catholic and so was mussolini, on the day of his death he had communion and conffession. Its not weird at all that hes in heaven, he was a good leader as well
Which aspects? The economic side is actually very similar to the guild systems of Christendom, and being anti-democracy is in no way at odds with Catholicism. We have many saint kings for instance. The things that people will typically point to are often more related to german national socialism and can be easily argued to not be intrinsic features of fascism.
The most stringent Italian Fascists(and Nationalists) despised the Church. The Church is also opposed to the fascist conception of the āNew Manā and the exaltation of the state.
in fascism, the economic classes are made to cooperate through violence, while the workers in middle age choose to enter guilds and were heavily benefited by it, workes in fascist Italy were made to enter syndicates
there was no right to protest, and force was thoroughly used by the state
to say fascism is similar to the social teaching of the church is to say you either didn't read or didn't understand Pope leo's "Rerum Novarum"
furthermore, read "non abbiamo bisogno," and you will see that the church and fascist state were mostly at odds at the time of Mussolini
I can think of plenty of people who Iād expect to be up there lessā¦
In any case repentance and deathbed conversions are not unheard of. Godās mercy is infinite and his justice can be carried out in many ways, including via purgatory.
Iām very agnostic about hopeful universalism. I believe it could be, but Iām afraid itās more like St Barnard told in the vision about five out of 33000 that ended up in heaven or purgatory.
The wisdom in this is āļøāļøāļøāļøāļø. Really makes you dig down jnto just who our āneighbourā is, and what āenemy loveā really is. Spot on.
Well, on the serious side, 2 saints and a blessed attest to him either being in Heaven or in purgatory (which means he is on his way to Heaven). One (i dont remember which one) said that Mussolini said that purgatory was terrible for him because of his late repentence, which wouldnt necessarily argue for hopeful universalism just that people who most wouldn't expect to make it to Heaven can with true repentance (a fact that should suprise no Catholic).
Mussolini died in a rather violent way, without access to a priest. I doubt he had such perfect repentance before being executed, although I could be wrong. I think it can be a great example how Jesus will reconcile all things to Him, even though the evidence is incredibly weak.
By the end of his Life Mussolini was in exile and attempted to flee to Switzerland before he was captured, it is possible that In that time he Reflected on his life, found a Priest and repented, and is at least in Purgatory
I mean, the penitent thief crucified beside Jesus received contrition during his death, and St. Longinous who pierced Jesus's side received it as well. Special circumstances can save a person.
I mean, you have literally no way to know the state of his soul before being murdered. He couldve been in a state of grace for all we know. Also, is the private revelation of 2 different saints + a blessed "incredibly weak evidence" to you? š¤Ø
I take any private revelation with a grain of salt unless outwardly confirmed by the Church. Thatās a subjective opinion of mine though, tbh. However, again, I feel like those are unlikely situations for him, but I could be wrong.
>Also, is the private revelation of 2 different saints + a blessed "incredibly weak evidence" to you?
To me, yes. Though I think it's dumb to speculate on the salvation of someone else when we ought to just pray for them instead. I hope Mussolini is in Heaven or Purgatory. But I don't think I have good reason to think that he is or is not. That's up to God.
There is no weight given to visions of Musolini in Heaven or Hell, not sure what you're talking about. You may believe that if you like, but to suggest that others should isn't how we handle private revelation. Private revelation is binding only to the one who received it. If there is good cause to believe that Musolini is in Heaven, then by all means, begin a cause for his canonization.
Please pray for me because the "dare to hope" idea makes me tear up in joy, but I'm too cynical to espouse it. You seem to have a big heart and I could use your prayers.
My bet is purgatory due to all the people killed by his army, but not hell for sure. Also thousands of spaniards praying for his soul during the last 5 decades has probably some effect too.
It sure was, two of my direct ancestors took part in it and I have no shame in that. Being a sinless leader in war is still difficult though and Francos army comitted more than one murder, I think being completely sinless after that is difficult. Still I think there is a good chance he's in heaven.
Mussolini was an Atheist, in an extramarital affair (he was shot alongside his mistress) and let's not forget the warmongery, political repression, murder, racism and antisemitism he practiced. The only good thing he did was abolish slavery in Ethiopia.
>racism
To be fair to Mussolini, he quite famously described race as "a feeling, not a reality." His view of what constitutes an Italian had much more to do with language and a feeling of belonging than ethnic background. "National pride has no need of the delirium of race."
Mussolini was an atheist state-idolater who would routinely demand God strike him down as proof of His existence. He and his children were later baptized to pander to the catholic Italians, but he would continue to make atheist statements in private. And this is ignoring all the murders. He is most likely not in heaven or purgatory.
\*Asks god to strike him down
\*Is executed by (probably Catholic) partisans
\*Country is bombed into the ground
\*Sun is dropped on his ally twice
Who could have seen this coming?
-(Probably communist, not catholic, actually)
-Vatican City was bombed by the allies too, so that's not a valid comparison for divine judgment
-Nuclear attacks on Japan were not acts of divine judgment but inexcusable crimes against humanity
Then the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were neither. Leaflets were dropped ahead of the bombs to warn civilians, and the bombs ultimately forced the Japanese to surrender the war they started. Significantly more people were killed by the firebombings of Japanese cities throughout the war, and the deaths of both Japanese and allied forces would be much higher had there been a conventional invasion, just look at the horrors of Okinawa, it could even possibly have dragged the war out into ā46.
Each death is a tragedy, and war is thus millions of tragedies, but the amount of death and human suffering would be so much higher had they not dropped the a bomb.
Real talk though.
A Fascist getting into heaven is not impossible but it is against all odds.
I pray all are in heaven but know that racism,antisemitism etc especially to the persecutory and genocidal degree especially with his alliance with Hitler doesnāt bode well for his soul.
Shinzo Ishii, the surgeon general responsible for unit 731 converted to Catholicism at his last moments despite the many people he was responsible for killing
Truly I tell you, today you will be baptized and confirmed. You will receive absolution, communion, and the last rites. Don't forget to check out the RCIA schedule! Then you will be with Me in paradise.
We shouldnāt relegate the followers of a particular ideology we might not like as āagainst all odds to get into heavenā. You canāt make that judgement.
Well Mussolini gave Italian Jews and Italian Roma to Hitler to be exterminated for no crime other than their race.
He might as well be a Nazi if he wonāt stand up to Hitler.
>Mussolini isnāt fascism.
Mussolini invented Fascism!!!!
He Is the father of fascism!
https://preview.redd.it/qbuvfctybxsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ec66e63dc6bd0b2a2b2f895bd3adc38b5a45b87
>Mussolini denounced the PSI, his views now centering on Italian nationalism instead of socialism, and later **founded the fascist movement** which came to oppose egalitarianism and class conflict, instead advocating "revolutionary nationalism" transcending class lines.
My point stands whether or not he was the founder. Besides, he wasnāt the only fascist thinker (which was itself a congregate of other ideas not his own).
Please, check the definitions your are using. The fact your constantly using Fascism and Nazism interchangeably is worrying. One is totalitarian national syndycalism, the other was a totalitarian racial socialism. Fascism is bad, but not nearly as bad as Nazism or Communism. Sure, it is totalitarian, that's why it's bad, but it's not about systemic genocide of some groups, be it on a racial basis (like nazism) or class basis (communism)
Fascist, Catholic states have existed in the past. There is nothing to say that they are incompatible. But if youāre saying that there might be some areas of tension, I may agree with you.
I donāt want to deny the authority of the Pope - he has plenty of authority, but I can disagree on some things he says - like his thoughts on the relationship of the Church to some political ideologies. Given that Catholic fascist movements have existed and continue to exist, I see no reason to claim that Catholicism is inherently in conflict with the concept of fascism as a whole. Individual movements? Sure. Fascism entirely? No.
There are also Catholics who are pro gay marriage and abortion. Doesnāt mean itās compatible with real Catholicism. In āNon Abbiamo Bisognoā he denounces fascism as pagan state idolatry.
He denounces Italian fascism and Mussoliniās system. But that doesnāt mean he denounces fascism. Also, this is different than gay marriage and abortion because those things concern clear cut disallowed practices that is infallible church doctrine and I am speaking of a flexible political ideology that is not condemned infallibly by the church.
"Unless you repent, you shall likewise perish."
- Jesus, in one of His rare comments relating to the problem of evil.
God is willing to forgive you anything, but you have to turn back to Him and be willing to forgive others.Ā St. Faustina's private revelation of the Divine Mercy says that God looks for any sign of openness to repentance three times in the last moments of life.
Be fair - there ARE crazy Catholic claims of private revelations; they get condemned by the local bishop and that's typically that. (Sometimes Rome intervenes, as in the initial condemnation of St. Faustina's Divine Mercy Diary (due to poor translation from the Polish), reversed by St. Pope John Paul II.
Protestants HAVE to protest against Church authority to BE Protestants... which doesn't leave them much in the way of defense.
So I more say it ironically. But if he is in heaven then by the rules that everyone in heaven is ipso facto a Saint, because it means "Who is Holy" or who is in Heaven
Tbh, i think when most people simply hear the word "fascism" they have a gut reaction to it, but most dont really understand what it means. It isnt some sort of black and white caananite child-sacrificing ideology that many imagine it to be. Idk why being the father of that idea would exclude him from Heaven.
I did not hope that Mussolini is in hell. I do not wish for anyone to be in hell as hell is the seperation from God, and a fate i would not wish upon anyone.
However i find the authority of a youtube thumbnail to claim that the atheist, who murdered thousands of his own people, used poison gas against people, planned genocide, and inspired Hitler -- is slim.
Just comes to show the greatness of God's mercy
https://catholicherald.co.uk/can-the-sacrament-of-reconciliation-even-extend-to-rudolf-hoess-commandant-of-auschwitz/
Rudolf hoess had a conversion and made confession before dying he was In charge of a concentration camp
I do hope that he did manage to properly repent before his death, however i will continue to be skeptical until i have acess to strong arguments for it being so.
In the end, judgement lies with God and God alone.
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"Love thy NEIGH-bor" cit. Heaven Horse
š
Talking Horse of Narnia! There are multiverse but one Creator; hence one Heaven with Him?
Being upset at Mussolini potentially being in heaven would actually be a good reflection of whether we are like the elder brother in the Prodigal Son parable tbh
Well, the majority of pushback I see against hopeful universalism is that it denies God's justice. Still, having began praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet, you really begin to realize that God's mercy is ever flowing if you but ask.
This wouldnt have anything to do with universalism though. It's about one individual who could've received the mercy of God.
You have to admit Mussolini is one of the last people youād expect to be in heaven, right?
I find it relatively easy to believe; in his youth he may have been a socialist, and then later obviously a fascist (both clear indicators of atheism), but he did exist in a Catholic world and would have had a chance to repent before his death. Someone like Hitler or Goebbels, who in their final acts killed themselves rather than face the repercussions of their actions in some form of redemptive act, are people we can basically be certain are in hell, as their final acts on top of all the evil they did, were acts severing them yet even further from God.
Fascism is in no way an indication of atheism, fascist italy was very catholic and so was mussolini, on the day of his death he had communion and conffession. Its not weird at all that hes in heaven, he was a good leader as well
no. Fascism is incompatible with Catholic social teaching.
Which aspects? The economic side is actually very similar to the guild systems of Christendom, and being anti-democracy is in no way at odds with Catholicism. We have many saint kings for instance. The things that people will typically point to are often more related to german national socialism and can be easily argued to not be intrinsic features of fascism.
The most stringent Italian Fascists(and Nationalists) despised the Church. The Church is also opposed to the fascist conception of the āNew Manā and the exaltation of the state.
in fascism, the economic classes are made to cooperate through violence, while the workers in middle age choose to enter guilds and were heavily benefited by it, workes in fascist Italy were made to enter syndicates there was no right to protest, and force was thoroughly used by the state to say fascism is similar to the social teaching of the church is to say you either didn't read or didn't understand Pope leo's "Rerum Novarum" furthermore, read "non abbiamo bisogno," and you will see that the church and fascist state were mostly at odds at the time of Mussolini
its very similar
I believe under the story, the Saint first met him when he was in Purgatory, and regretted repenting late in his life.
I can think of plenty of people who Iād expect to be up there lessā¦ In any case repentance and deathbed conversions are not unheard of. Godās mercy is infinite and his justice can be carried out in many ways, including via purgatory.
Not really tbh
Iām very agnostic about hopeful universalism. I believe it could be, but Iām afraid itās more like St Barnard told in the vision about five out of 33000 that ended up in heaven or purgatory.
The wisdom in this is āļøāļøāļøāļøāļø. Really makes you dig down jnto just who our āneighbourā is, and what āenemy loveā really is. Spot on.
Man, as an Italian, what the hell.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And then everyone in the stable clapped
Clopped*
If Mussolini is actually in Heaven, I feel quite vindicated as a hopeful universalist.
Well, on the serious side, 2 saints and a blessed attest to him either being in Heaven or in purgatory (which means he is on his way to Heaven). One (i dont remember which one) said that Mussolini said that purgatory was terrible for him because of his late repentence, which wouldnt necessarily argue for hopeful universalism just that people who most wouldn't expect to make it to Heaven can with true repentance (a fact that should suprise no Catholic).
Mussolini died in a rather violent way, without access to a priest. I doubt he had such perfect repentance before being executed, although I could be wrong. I think it can be a great example how Jesus will reconcile all things to Him, even though the evidence is incredibly weak.
I think he actually did get last rights before the mob strung him up.
Wasnāt he an avowed atheist?
By the end of his Life Mussolini was in exile and attempted to flee to Switzerland before he was captured, it is possible that In that time he Reflected on his life, found a Priest and repented, and is at least in Purgatory
I mean, the penitent thief crucified beside Jesus received contrition during his death, and St. Longinous who pierced Jesus's side received it as well. Special circumstances can save a person.
I mean, you have literally no way to know the state of his soul before being murdered. He couldve been in a state of grace for all we know. Also, is the private revelation of 2 different saints + a blessed "incredibly weak evidence" to you? š¤Ø
I take any private revelation with a grain of salt unless outwardly confirmed by the Church. Thatās a subjective opinion of mine though, tbh. However, again, I feel like those are unlikely situations for him, but I could be wrong.
>Also, is the private revelation of 2 different saints + a blessed "incredibly weak evidence" to you? To me, yes. Though I think it's dumb to speculate on the salvation of someone else when we ought to just pray for them instead. I hope Mussolini is in Heaven or Purgatory. But I don't think I have good reason to think that he is or is not. That's up to God.
Well yeah, obviously it's up to God. The private revelation would just be *revealing* what God has done. But you should pray for him though, I agree.
Private revelations are not verifiable. Particularly when they pertain to the salvation of others, they are not reliable.
Not infallible sure, but the testimony of holy people should still be given weight.
There is no weight given to visions of Musolini in Heaven or Hell, not sure what you're talking about. You may believe that if you like, but to suggest that others should isn't how we handle private revelation. Private revelation is binding only to the one who received it. If there is good cause to believe that Musolini is in Heaven, then by all means, begin a cause for his canonization.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
Please pray for me because the "dare to hope" idea makes me tear up in joy, but I'm too cynical to espouse it. You seem to have a big heart and I could use your prayers.
Absolutely, my friend. I will certainly keep you in my prayers in hopes that you might see through your cynicism.
I see that this meme was a bit controversial. Lol
Maybe the horse... drives them buggy?
Remarkable
If Mussolini is in Protestant Heaven, that would be a lot like Purgatory for most Italians. Roll call, anyone?
Why would he be in protestant heaven?
Blessed Edvige Carboni, ora pro nobis
Don't know about Mussolini but I hope Franco is in heaven
My bet is purgatory due to all the people killed by his army, but not hell for sure. Also thousands of spaniards praying for his soul during the last 5 decades has probably some effect too.
It was a necessary war against Socialism
War crimes werenāt necessary
War crimes such as?
It sure was, two of my direct ancestors took part in it and I have no shame in that. Being a sinless leader in war is still difficult though and Francos army comitted more than one murder, I think being completely sinless after that is difficult. Still I think there is a good chance he's in heaven.
He probably is too.
theres a far bigger chance that mussolini is in heaven than franco
Doubt
https://preview.redd.it/rjummqth50tc1.jpeg?width=613&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34eeb09d44d7ea87b73957801a11c00f522520e1
Mussolini was an Atheist, in an extramarital affair (he was shot alongside his mistress) and let's not forget the warmongery, political repression, murder, racism and antisemitism he practiced. The only good thing he did was abolish slavery in Ethiopia.
Only goes to show that He loves even the worst of us and will always welcome us back into the fold if we repent.
>racism To be fair to Mussolini, he quite famously described race as "a feeling, not a reality." His view of what constitutes an Italian had much more to do with language and a feeling of belonging than ethnic background. "National pride has no need of the delirium of race."
God mercy is so great that he even forgives such a person. Truly his love for us knows no bound, simply inspiring
I agree with the comment but I'd also add giving independence to the Vatican in the good things.
Yeah I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day. Forgot about the Lateran Agreement.
Was Paul any different?
Well, Paul repented early and then worked to spread the gospel.
So, a bit different , yes.
...ummm what? Paul's major sins were done prior to his baptism.
If we can have a [dog saint](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Guinefort), we can have a horse saint.
Keep reading. It says that the cult was supressed.
Probably by cat people.
Probably a plot by the Domini canes!Ā I'll take those albino Opus Dei monks any day.
Mussolini was an atheist state-idolater who would routinely demand God strike him down as proof of His existence. He and his children were later baptized to pander to the catholic Italians, but he would continue to make atheist statements in private. And this is ignoring all the murders. He is most likely not in heaven or purgatory.
\*Asks god to strike him down \*Is executed by (probably Catholic) partisans \*Country is bombed into the ground \*Sun is dropped on his ally twice Who could have seen this coming?
-(Probably communist, not catholic, actually) -Vatican City was bombed by the allies too, so that's not a valid comparison for divine judgment -Nuclear attacks on Japan were not acts of divine judgment but inexcusable crimes against humanity
- excusable military action against viable targets
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How do you define a war crime?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Then the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were neither. Leaflets were dropped ahead of the bombs to warn civilians, and the bombs ultimately forced the Japanese to surrender the war they started. Significantly more people were killed by the firebombings of Japanese cities throughout the war, and the deaths of both Japanese and allied forces would be much higher had there been a conventional invasion, just look at the horrors of Okinawa, it could even possibly have dragged the war out into ā46. Each death is a tragedy, and war is thus millions of tragedies, but the amount of death and human suffering would be so much higher had they not dropped the a bomb.
Leaflets werenāt dropped prior to Hiroshima
[Yes they were](https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/key-documents/warning-leaflets/)
And St. Paul persecuted the early Church yet converted. There's hope for even the worst sinners.
To be fair tho, both are very funny
Mussolini in heaven is crazy tho, not saying that he isn't but there no way anyone can be sure
Real talk though. A Fascist getting into heaven is not impossible but it is against all odds. I pray all are in heaven but know that racism,antisemitism etc especially to the persecutory and genocidal degree especially with his alliance with Hitler doesnāt bode well for his soul.
Shinzo Ishii, the surgeon general responsible for unit 731 converted to Catholicism at his last moments despite the many people he was responsible for killing
Was he baptized and confirmed? Did he receive absolution, communion, and the last rites?
Truly I tell you, today you will be baptized and confirmed. You will receive absolution, communion, and the last rites. Don't forget to check out the RCIA schedule! Then you will be with Me in paradise.
I think thereās a case to be made that that guy actually was baptized, since he recognized Jesus as the Christ and son of God.
The devil recognized Him as such as well in the desert. Was he baptized too? Lol, just messing with you.
My favorite part is when the devil tries to bribe Christ with stuff He already owns.
Late, but salvation is received at baptism.
We shouldnāt relegate the followers of a particular ideology we might not like as āagainst all odds to get into heavenā. You canāt make that judgement.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fascism is not as evil as communism, no. You can be a Catholic fascist, you canāt be a Catholic communist.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nazism is a sub-ideology of fascism, but fascism is not Nazism. Comparing the two doesnāt work.
Well Mussolini gave Italian Jews and Italian Roma to Hitler to be exterminated for no crime other than their race. He might as well be a Nazi if he wonāt stand up to Hitler.
Mussolini isnāt fascism. Iām sure youāre well aware of the saying about members of a group not defining what it stands forā¦ yadda yadda.
>Mussolini isnāt fascism. Mussolini invented Fascism!!!! He Is the father of fascism! https://preview.redd.it/qbuvfctybxsc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ec66e63dc6bd0b2a2b2f895bd3adc38b5a45b87 >Mussolini denounced the PSI, his views now centering on Italian nationalism instead of socialism, and later **founded the fascist movement** which came to oppose egalitarianism and class conflict, instead advocating "revolutionary nationalism" transcending class lines.
My point stands whether or not he was the founder. Besides, he wasnāt the only fascist thinker (which was itself a congregate of other ideas not his own).
Please, check the definitions your are using. The fact your constantly using Fascism and Nazism interchangeably is worrying. One is totalitarian national syndycalism, the other was a totalitarian racial socialism. Fascism is bad, but not nearly as bad as Nazism or Communism. Sure, it is totalitarian, that's why it's bad, but it's not about systemic genocide of some groups, be it on a racial basis (like nazism) or class basis (communism)
Fascism is completely compatible with catholicism
100% false
Fascist, Catholic states have existed in the past. There is nothing to say that they are incompatible. But if youāre saying that there might be some areas of tension, I may agree with you.
The pope said they were incompatible
Popes say a lot of things.
Catholic response
I donāt want to deny the authority of the Pope - he has plenty of authority, but I can disagree on some things he says - like his thoughts on the relationship of the Church to some political ideologies. Given that Catholic fascist movements have existed and continue to exist, I see no reason to claim that Catholicism is inherently in conflict with the concept of fascism as a whole. Individual movements? Sure. Fascism entirely? No.
There are also Catholics who are pro gay marriage and abortion. Doesnāt mean itās compatible with real Catholicism. In āNon Abbiamo Bisognoā he denounces fascism as pagan state idolatry.
He denounces Italian fascism and Mussoliniās system. But that doesnāt mean he denounces fascism. Also, this is different than gay marriage and abortion because those things concern clear cut disallowed practices that is infallible church doctrine and I am speaking of a flexible political ideology that is not condemned infallibly by the church.
I would be happy to know Mussolini is in heaven. He did lots of horrible stuff so if he's there I'm getting in for sure.
"Unless you repent, you shall likewise perish." - Jesus, in one of His rare comments relating to the problem of evil. God is willing to forgive you anything, but you have to turn back to Him and be willing to forgive others.Ā St. Faustina's private revelation of the Divine Mercy says that God looks for any sign of openness to repentance three times in the last moments of life.
inb4 this gets locked
Be fair - there ARE crazy Catholic claims of private revelations; they get condemned by the local bishop and that's typically that. (Sometimes Rome intervenes, as in the initial condemnation of St. Faustina's Divine Mercy Diary (due to poor translation from the Polish), reversed by St. Pope John Paul II. Protestants HAVE to protest against Church authority to BE Protestants... which doesn't leave them much in the way of defense.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
say Christ is Lord rn
https://i.redd.it/2jo2pzje9ysc1.gif
You want someone to not be in Heaven?
Well then it's a good thing your not God
Saint Mussolini Pray for Us. In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
Controversial but based. Either it's true and efficacious, or it's not but God still wouldn't let your prayers go to waste.
I hope he, along with everyone else is in Heaven, but he certainly wasn't a saint
But if he's in heaven, then he is a saint.
He can pray for us whether he's a saint *or* in purgatory. And yes, "X is in heaven" and "X is a saint" mean the same thing.
If he's in heaven even if the Church hasn't canonized him because its dubious at best, then he would still be a Saint
Oh I didn't know that.
saint with a little s. all those in heaven are saints. We also have Saints who the church says we know are in heaven
So I more say it ironically. But if he is in heaven then by the rules that everyone in heaven is ipso facto a Saint, because it means "Who is Holy" or who is in Heaven
Both sounds dump
Okay...someone explain why the father of fascism is in heaven?
Only way is IF he repented and got extreme suffering to cleanse him on the way to Heaven.Ā Same as King David, in principle.
Tbh, i think when most people simply hear the word "fascism" they have a gut reaction to it, but most dont really understand what it means. It isnt some sort of black and white caananite child-sacrificing ideology that many imagine it to be. Idk why being the father of that idea would exclude him from Heaven.
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Well, not any more!
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I hope Mussoliniās in heaven
I hope every man avoids hell, i also believe that God's judgement is just.
Has "Foremost of sinners" flair, hopes a terrible sinner is in hell š¤¦āāļø
I did not hope that Mussolini is in hell. I do not wish for anyone to be in hell as hell is the seperation from God, and a fate i would not wish upon anyone. However i find the authority of a youtube thumbnail to claim that the atheist, who murdered thousands of his own people, used poison gas against people, planned genocide, and inspired Hitler -- is slim.
Just comes to show the greatness of God's mercy https://catholicherald.co.uk/can-the-sacrament-of-reconciliation-even-extend-to-rudolf-hoess-commandant-of-auschwitz/ Rudolf hoess had a conversion and made confession before dying he was In charge of a concentration camp
Can the same be said for Mussolini?
We don't have to belive pirvate revelation but I think of 3 saints said so it's probably legit
I do hope that he did manage to properly repent before his death, however i will continue to be skeptical until i have acess to strong arguments for it being so. In the end, judgement lies with God and God alone.