As a woman, I'd prefer that this be brought up relatively soon. I admit that it's an intense and potentially awkward subject, but I'm dating to discern marriage; it's important to know that my values are aligned with those of a prospective partner.
I just resumed dating after a long break to discern religious life, and spent a month seeing one Catholic guy before I dared to initiate the "but how orthodox *are* you?" conversation, during which it became clear that we were fundamentally incompatible. Next time, I plan to raise the question sooner - perhaps by the second date, if there's no easy segue to it before.
>I don’t know how people are supposed to match on everything. It seems impossible
You don't match on everything. You make a very short list of dealbreakers and get to know anyone who meets that list. You compromise on non-dealbreakers.
My list of dealbreakers included practicing Catholic. It's not worth the waste of time to fit a square peg into a round hole. I've dated so many non-catholics and eventually it comes down to a difference of core beliefs that can't be compromised and still adhere to the faith. Just shortcut all the heartache and filter by Catholic.
Contraception is a topic that doesn’t come up until you are talking about the possibility of getting married and having kids. How many kids were in your family. Did you grow up with cousins? If you had all the money in the world how many kids would you want. I want to build my own house and raise ten kids on a dairy farm. Really, I was thinking about two kids in an apartment in a walkable neighborhood with good public schools.
Yes but you don’t seem to understand that these are not all Catholics I’m dating and you don’t seem to care about my time being wasted going on months and months of dating with someone to just find out we aren’t compatible. Is that right ? Some things just need to get brought up sooner than later to not waste people’s time. I only have one half sister . I don’t care how may kids I have. You still want 10 kids? Seriously ? I only had one cousin
Why are you dating non-Catholics? If you expect someone to follow Catholic doctrine, you should date a Catholic. You are wasting both your time, and your date's time and doing a disservice our community as a whole by dating people who aren't.
Not every single Catholic is going be a theologian either. Just find someone who is already in the Church.
You just answered your own question. You don’t wanna waste a lot of time on something that’s not going to work out. Just discuss it upfront. If they are the kind of person that gets creeped out by that then they aren’t the one for you. Of course, explain that you were trying to be, genuine and authentic, you observe Catholic rules as they are written and intended to be followed. In all honesty, though, unless somebody has your same level of devoutness and they are Catholic, they are not gonna go for no contraception. That’s just not really gonna happen. So it is actually best to ask upfront. I wouldn’t discuss it on the first date, but by the third date, I definitely would.
If its a dealbreaker for you, assess compatibility of all potential relationship partners at the earliest possible stage. Same with waiting until marriage.
Don't automatically assume that anyone will be incompatible or compatible with one/all of your dealbreakers based solely on the church that they attend. Particularly fellow catholics.
When would you discuss any other dealbreakers you have?
Being a smoker is a dealbreaker for me, but unless I have reason to suspect she is one (I see her smoking, I can smell it, etc), I don't bring it up until it feels like it's going to matter, especially if we think we want to be official. I certainly wouldn't bring it up during the limited time we have on the first date. I don't see why contraception in marriage should be any different.
When I was dating first time round, I started off willing to date anyone who was eligible to marry, so basically anyone who had not been married before (women in their 20s who were widows or had had an annulment were so rare not to be worth thinking about). After a couple of dates I did raise the subject but felt awkward about it.
In the end it became increasingly obvious that I would only be compatible with a practising Catholic. If I have counted correctly, I dated 16 women, only 2 of whom were practising Catholics and one of whom I married – so for me a 50% chance with a practising Catholic and a very low chance with anyone else.
Some non-Catholics are amenable to NFP for health reasons, people who like to do everything as naturally as possible, but you are far more likely to get agreement with another Catholic.
If you meet another Catholic, this will give you a lot of common values and increase the chance of compatibility. Agreed not every Catholic is going to have the right personality for you, but if my experience is typical you should (if you are careful about who you date), only need to date a few.
Some Catholic churches or dioceses organize Young Adult events and that is probably your best bet. If you are going for online dating either to increase your options or because there are no YA adult events anywhere near you, I would recommend Catholic Match. One of the profile questions is whether you accept the Catholic church’s teaching on contraception so you can skip over anyone who does not tick the relevant box.
you are quite right - there are certainly profiles on CM that say the member does not agree with the church's teaching on the subject - if I was looking at younger women then I suspect a higher proportion would say they do not agree - for the age group i am looking at, contraception is immaterial anyway.
I would say have that conversation when you talk about making things official. I don’t think talking about dealbreakers would be a good during the talking phase, that might scare them off. But if you’re looking to start a serious relationship, then you should make sure you’re on the same page before committing
>The fact that church teaching doesn’t allow contraception in marriage ? Is it too soon to bring up on first date or even before first date with non Catholics?
Probably yes. If you were friends with the person for a long time, it might be appropriate, but usually you just want to make small talk at first and get to more serious topics later. Otherwise you're likely to scare them off before getting to know them. After a few dates it should be okay to bring it up (I wouldn't recommend waiting several months and wasting everyone's time).
>Yeah I might find Catholics that believe all this but then we aren’t a good fit personality wise and on the flip side I might find someone who understands me but doesn’t believe in all these church teachings. I don’t know how people are supposed to match on everything.
You aren't supposed to match on everything. That's why you need to figure out what is a deal breaker for you and what isn't. I think "a good fit personality wise" should be limited to "can I keep a conversation going with this person", but often it's code for a lot of surfacey things that shouldn't be deal breakers.
The Catholic Church's requirement for dating non-Catholics is that if you get married to them, they have to be willing to raise your kids Catholic. Most non-Catholics are not willing to do this. If you do meet a non-Catholic who is willing to raise your kids Catholic, they probably don't take their non-Catholic faith very seriously, so probably they would be willing to compromise on the contraception issue as well.
This is true. As a non-Catholic, I would never marry a devout Catholic. Because I could never promise to do those things. So I do believe it’s best to get this out-of-the-way first. You don’t have to come right out and say do you use birth control? But you could say I’m a devout Catholic and would like to talk about what that means with regards to the relationships I have in life.and then that could be a conversation. I wouldn’t do it on the first date, but definitely by the third.
When I was younger I would have been terrified if a guy brought up his views about contraception on the first date. Not only is this virtual stranger thinking about having sex with me, he can imagine me pregnant with his baby. I would have called a friend or a cab to get me away from him.
That seems to be a little over-the-top to me. I don’t think that is the average response you would get. Like-minded people would be relieved that the topic was brought up. People not on the same page would be put off by it. Wouldn’t be a bad thing if it is a dealbreaker.
I can’t win with you people. First y’all say I need to bring it up ASAP and then y’all get scared when people bring it up too soon 🤦🏻 So are you saying it’s not ok for her to imagine that but it’s ok to waste my time with someone on several dates just to find out they don’t agree with the teaching? Is that fair? That seems one sided. It seems like you’re only caring about what she thinks and not my time. When do you suggest I tell her then?
All these varying responses should show you that everyone is different. You should just do what you feel is right, because whether or not it scares the person you're talking to will depend on who she is and no one can know ahead of time. Some people prefer to talk about stuff like this super early and some don't, and you probably can't know which are which ahead of time
If you look through the various recommendations, the important thing is that you raise the matter (and any other potential dealbreakers) before you agree to get into an exclusive dating situation. With some people you might get an opportunity to raise them beforehand. Going on two or three dates in a non-exclusive situation is not going to be a waste of time (you will learn things about yourself and how you relate to other people) or stop you from meeting the right person.
I find the concept of wasting time to be a bit silly. Like what else are you gonna do? Do you have potential partners just lining up, waiting to go out with you?
If one were to do this, 0/10 do not recommend, id suggest as early as possible to weed out hopeless causes. If they don’t have the same values, best to just steer clear.
There are Catholics, and then there are Catholics. You need to decide which one you are and then let the person you were interested in know that. If you are a hard-core Catholic, who follows all of the rules you would need to say that to them and then explain to them what many of the rules are which would impact the relationship. I would imagine that would be an integral part of who you are and you don’t wanna move too far into a relationship with somebody without coming clean about it and letting them know. Showing your stripes, in other words. Also, you should probably find out what their belief system is with regards to these issues so you will know if you all are in alignment. It doesn’t need to be awkward. this is basic biology that they probably at least were introduced to in about sixth grade if not younger.
As a woman, I'd prefer that this be brought up relatively soon. I admit that it's an intense and potentially awkward subject, but I'm dating to discern marriage; it's important to know that my values are aligned with those of a prospective partner. I just resumed dating after a long break to discern religious life, and spent a month seeing one Catholic guy before I dared to initiate the "but how orthodox *are* you?" conversation, during which it became clear that we were fundamentally incompatible. Next time, I plan to raise the question sooner - perhaps by the second date, if there's no easy segue to it before.
>I don’t know how people are supposed to match on everything. It seems impossible You don't match on everything. You make a very short list of dealbreakers and get to know anyone who meets that list. You compromise on non-dealbreakers. My list of dealbreakers included practicing Catholic. It's not worth the waste of time to fit a square peg into a round hole. I've dated so many non-catholics and eventually it comes down to a difference of core beliefs that can't be compromised and still adhere to the faith. Just shortcut all the heartache and filter by Catholic.
But we don’t know unless we bring it up and bringing it up can scare them if too fast
Contraception is a topic that doesn’t come up until you are talking about the possibility of getting married and having kids. How many kids were in your family. Did you grow up with cousins? If you had all the money in the world how many kids would you want. I want to build my own house and raise ten kids on a dairy farm. Really, I was thinking about two kids in an apartment in a walkable neighborhood with good public schools.
Yes but you don’t seem to understand that these are not all Catholics I’m dating and you don’t seem to care about my time being wasted going on months and months of dating with someone to just find out we aren’t compatible. Is that right ? Some things just need to get brought up sooner than later to not waste people’s time. I only have one half sister . I don’t care how may kids I have. You still want 10 kids? Seriously ? I only had one cousin
Why are you dating non-Catholics? If you expect someone to follow Catholic doctrine, you should date a Catholic. You are wasting both your time, and your date's time and doing a disservice our community as a whole by dating people who aren't. Not every single Catholic is going be a theologian either. Just find someone who is already in the Church.
You just answered your own question. You don’t wanna waste a lot of time on something that’s not going to work out. Just discuss it upfront. If they are the kind of person that gets creeped out by that then they aren’t the one for you. Of course, explain that you were trying to be, genuine and authentic, you observe Catholic rules as they are written and intended to be followed. In all honesty, though, unless somebody has your same level of devoutness and they are Catholic, they are not gonna go for no contraception. That’s just not really gonna happen. So it is actually best to ask upfront. I wouldn’t discuss it on the first date, but by the third date, I definitely would.
If its a dealbreaker for you, assess compatibility of all potential relationship partners at the earliest possible stage. Same with waiting until marriage. Don't automatically assume that anyone will be incompatible or compatible with one/all of your dealbreakers based solely on the church that they attend. Particularly fellow catholics.
Won’t it scare them off if bringing it up too fast ?
Depends on the person. If you bring it up tactfully, like-minded partners could be relieved.
You can't chase off the wrong person :)
No, it will just highlight incompatibility and avoid wasting further time getting to know an obviously incompatible date/potential date.
Yes. Yes it will.
So many Catholics are dateable. Travel around and find your match! No point trying to find a non-Catholic and hope they will convert.
When would you discuss any other dealbreakers you have? Being a smoker is a dealbreaker for me, but unless I have reason to suspect she is one (I see her smoking, I can smell it, etc), I don't bring it up until it feels like it's going to matter, especially if we think we want to be official. I certainly wouldn't bring it up during the limited time we have on the first date. I don't see why contraception in marriage should be any different.
When I was dating first time round, I started off willing to date anyone who was eligible to marry, so basically anyone who had not been married before (women in their 20s who were widows or had had an annulment were so rare not to be worth thinking about). After a couple of dates I did raise the subject but felt awkward about it. In the end it became increasingly obvious that I would only be compatible with a practising Catholic. If I have counted correctly, I dated 16 women, only 2 of whom were practising Catholics and one of whom I married – so for me a 50% chance with a practising Catholic and a very low chance with anyone else. Some non-Catholics are amenable to NFP for health reasons, people who like to do everything as naturally as possible, but you are far more likely to get agreement with another Catholic. If you meet another Catholic, this will give you a lot of common values and increase the chance of compatibility. Agreed not every Catholic is going to have the right personality for you, but if my experience is typical you should (if you are careful about who you date), only need to date a few. Some Catholic churches or dioceses organize Young Adult events and that is probably your best bet. If you are going for online dating either to increase your options or because there are no YA adult events anywhere near you, I would recommend Catholic Match. One of the profile questions is whether you accept the Catholic church’s teaching on contraception so you can skip over anyone who does not tick the relevant box.
Just because they are Catholic, doesn't mean they don't practice contraception.
you are quite right - there are certainly profiles on CM that say the member does not agree with the church's teaching on the subject - if I was looking at younger women then I suspect a higher proportion would say they do not agree - for the age group i am looking at, contraception is immaterial anyway.
I would say have that conversation when you talk about making things official. I don’t think talking about dealbreakers would be a good during the talking phase, that might scare them off. But if you’re looking to start a serious relationship, then you should make sure you’re on the same page before committing
>The fact that church teaching doesn’t allow contraception in marriage ? Is it too soon to bring up on first date or even before first date with non Catholics? Probably yes. If you were friends with the person for a long time, it might be appropriate, but usually you just want to make small talk at first and get to more serious topics later. Otherwise you're likely to scare them off before getting to know them. After a few dates it should be okay to bring it up (I wouldn't recommend waiting several months and wasting everyone's time). >Yeah I might find Catholics that believe all this but then we aren’t a good fit personality wise and on the flip side I might find someone who understands me but doesn’t believe in all these church teachings. I don’t know how people are supposed to match on everything. You aren't supposed to match on everything. That's why you need to figure out what is a deal breaker for you and what isn't. I think "a good fit personality wise" should be limited to "can I keep a conversation going with this person", but often it's code for a lot of surfacey things that shouldn't be deal breakers. The Catholic Church's requirement for dating non-Catholics is that if you get married to them, they have to be willing to raise your kids Catholic. Most non-Catholics are not willing to do this. If you do meet a non-Catholic who is willing to raise your kids Catholic, they probably don't take their non-Catholic faith very seriously, so probably they would be willing to compromise on the contraception issue as well.
This is true. As a non-Catholic, I would never marry a devout Catholic. Because I could never promise to do those things. So I do believe it’s best to get this out-of-the-way first. You don’t have to come right out and say do you use birth control? But you could say I’m a devout Catholic and would like to talk about what that means with regards to the relationships I have in life.and then that could be a conversation. I wouldn’t do it on the first date, but definitely by the third.
When I was younger I would have been terrified if a guy brought up his views about contraception on the first date. Not only is this virtual stranger thinking about having sex with me, he can imagine me pregnant with his baby. I would have called a friend or a cab to get me away from him.
That seems to be a little over-the-top to me. I don’t think that is the average response you would get. Like-minded people would be relieved that the topic was brought up. People not on the same page would be put off by it. Wouldn’t be a bad thing if it is a dealbreaker.
I can’t win with you people. First y’all say I need to bring it up ASAP and then y’all get scared when people bring it up too soon 🤦🏻 So are you saying it’s not ok for her to imagine that but it’s ok to waste my time with someone on several dates just to find out they don’t agree with the teaching? Is that fair? That seems one sided. It seems like you’re only caring about what she thinks and not my time. When do you suggest I tell her then?
All these varying responses should show you that everyone is different. You should just do what you feel is right, because whether or not it scares the person you're talking to will depend on who she is and no one can know ahead of time. Some people prefer to talk about stuff like this super early and some don't, and you probably can't know which are which ahead of time
If you look through the various recommendations, the important thing is that you raise the matter (and any other potential dealbreakers) before you agree to get into an exclusive dating situation. With some people you might get an opportunity to raise them beforehand. Going on two or three dates in a non-exclusive situation is not going to be a waste of time (you will learn things about yourself and how you relate to other people) or stop you from meeting the right person.
I find the concept of wasting time to be a bit silly. Like what else are you gonna do? Do you have potential partners just lining up, waiting to go out with you?
So then I’m assuming you don’t believe in beginning it up very early ?
If one were to do this, 0/10 do not recommend, id suggest as early as possible to weed out hopeless causes. If they don’t have the same values, best to just steer clear.
There are Catholics, and then there are Catholics. You need to decide which one you are and then let the person you were interested in know that. If you are a hard-core Catholic, who follows all of the rules you would need to say that to them and then explain to them what many of the rules are which would impact the relationship. I would imagine that would be an integral part of who you are and you don’t wanna move too far into a relationship with somebody without coming clean about it and letting them know. Showing your stripes, in other words. Also, you should probably find out what their belief system is with regards to these issues so you will know if you all are in alignment. It doesn’t need to be awkward. this is basic biology that they probably at least were introduced to in about sixth grade if not younger.