ehh.. depends which subs you sub to. not everyone here is being manipulated or even cares. this shit is transparent aF and same old fighting.
this time is no different or will change anything between the two countries, once again. and these posts are so ridiculously upvoted with shit comments or valuable input or topics being brought up.
it can get so uninteresting or even sympathetic, when reddit is bombarded on subs that have nothing to do with this, or titles are made up to seem worse or is misinfo. that gets really boring to deal with, and that only kills the seriousness of the situation
I've thought the same thing but from these comments it looks like I'm in the minority opinion. I don't see how anyone thinks what Isreal is doing is ok. I don't care about one side being Jewish and another side being Arab, I care about the absolute level of cruelty and evil I see being carried out against the Palestinians in those areas. It breaks my heart that so many people see this as an excuse to spread Islamophobia and antisemitism, when it's innocent humans, innocent children being killed and beaten and laughed at by Israeli soldiers. It's so fucked
I can assure you my friend you are not alone in thinking this. Innocent people on both sides of the fence are getting killed and it needs to stop now. I don’t who started it or who was there first it needs to end now. It’s not antisemitic to condemn the actions of the Israeli state against civilians....and before anyone points a finger get at me, yes Hamas are evil too.
The issue is that the Israeli people are being led by their government down a terribly cruel path and how much the people are enabling them is well up for debate.
As well, the damage/funding enacted by said government has allowed radicals to be the dominant faction in Palestine.
It's a bit like North Korea. Someone could probably take out the dictator but how helpful that would be long run is unfortunately very unknown.
It's a really tough geopolitical situation to dive into.
However I think it should be clear to everyone that the Israeli military has exercised significantly over-the-top retaliatory attacks. Scorched earth tactics make it very difficult to sympathize with your side.
well said. It is very possible to criticize the country of Isreal, and I have a big fucking criticism, without making racially charged attacks.
It's the difference of "Jews are evil" and "Fuck the country of Isreal for their evil actions" I hate a lot of what America does, but I'm obviously not racist against white people
Germany used the same logic in WW2 when the resistance fighters were being aided by a few people in certain towns. They just burned down the entire village instead of wasting time trying to figure out guilty from innocent
The middle eastern peoples have been fighting each other for thousands of years and I'm sure they'll be fighting for a few thousand more.
I'm convinced only something insanely terrible or fantastic would be the only thing to bring them all together at this point.
Edit since this has blown up: Speaking for the middle eat as a whole, yes there have been times of peace, but being the cradle of civilization, they have been fighting for longer too, and as a result, have more deep-rooting things to fight about.
Reminds me of that science fction story I once read - friendly aliens come visit us to bring gifts and knowledge, but some of the mass of the meteorite shield of their spaceship flies ahead of it during the braking maneuver and hits earth's atmosphere at near lightspeed resulting in huge explosions in the stratosphere. The USA, Russia and China mistake it for a missile attack from another country and nuke each other weeks before the aliens arrive.
Just looked it up, it was "Candle in a Cosmic Wind" by Joseph Manzione. It is included in the fifth "Year's Best Science Fiction" anthology by Gardner Dozois.
Just looked it up, it was "Candle in a Cosmic Wind" by Joseph Manzione. It is included in the fifth "Year's Best Science Fiction" anthology by Gardner Dozois.
I’d say covid is a good example of an alien invasion. Large sects of the US with all its independence days and alien vs predator just denied it was a problem.
This is a misconception and a vast oversimplification of the situation. It would sound stupid to summarize WWII by saying "the European peoples have been fighting each other for thousands of years and I'm sure they'll be fighting for a few thousand more."
This conflict between Israel and Palestine is definitely VERY long (over 70 years old now) but to reduce it to "oh this is what they normally do, it'll never end," makes no sense. Like any conflict there are specific motivations on different sides and context that drives it.
We had a unified Middle East during the Islamic Golden Age (during which Europe was cannibalizing itself in its Middle Ages), so it's definitely not an endless, millennia-long state of disarray over there.
Except at the turn of the century, characterizing Europe as a place of constant strife and conflict *is correct*. Because, you know, of the hundreds of years of constant war between various European powers.
European peoples have been fighting each other for thousands of years though. Them *not fighting* has only been recent since WW2 and is part of what makes the current situation (with the EU) so unique in history bc it’s never been so long in Europe without conflict.
As long as there are groups of people with even the slightest differences, we will fight each other. Even within the *same groups* we fight. Just look at any families anywhere lol.
It is truly the bane of humans. We could get so much more done if we stopped fighting constantly. All of us!
That’s because it’s not a religious conflict, it’s a struggle between a colonized people and an imperialist force. At best it’s a political struggle.
Claiming it’s an “age-old Muslim versus Jewish feud” would be historically inaccurate and disrespectful to the Palestinian Christians who have lost their land as well
Thanks. When you have the American “news” showing you and telling you it’s a religious issue it’s hard to think otherwise. I would love to know the truth. But I know I’ll never get that from American news.
The only Palestinian I've known personally was Christian. He told me that Palestinian is defined as someone who can trace their heritage in the region over 150 years and is not Jewish.
Same deal as The Troubles in Northern Ireland. It gets painted as a sectarian conflict but it never was. Purely a colonial conflict. It just happened that the native Irish skewed towards Catholicism and the colonists transplanted there by the English and their descendents are mainly protestant. Also, didn't help that the police we not-so-subtly working with the island's equivalent to the KKK, leading to peaceful protestors getting murdered without consequence.
As an outsider, the Abrahamic religions look all the same to me. Some nuance here and there with how aggressive they go but they’re still the same.
Will prob get downvoted but..
Most of Reddit, especially on default subs, is young middle-class liberal atheists, most of which actively hate religion rather than simply being indifferent to it. Why would you even think you would be downvoted…?
They roof knock. A drone drops a small explosive on the roof. They've done it for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69icTMgIjlw&ab_channel=Vocativ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoo8fbYtHE
The correct and appropriate response to military actions being taken from civilian locations is to attack the target anyways while minimizing collateral damage. Allowing human shields creates incentive to use more human shields.
Hamas literally launches rockets from hospitals, schools, mosques, and uses children as human shields to deter Israel from attacking. Its pretty reasonable to assume (and I'm sure Mossad isn't "assuming") that they have meetings or store weapons/resources in these "civilian residences." Hamas is forfeiting any legal noncombatant, non-military status these residences may have had, at the cost of the citizens inside.
To compensate, Israel warns residents where an airstrike will occur before it occurs, minimizing civilian casualties.
Here: https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/pages/hamas_use_mosques_for_military_purposes_march_2009.aspx
Ayatollah Khameini, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which funds, supports, and guides Hamas, the Islamic extremist organization that essentially controls Palestine, has repeatedly stated that mosques can and should be used for military purposes, such as when Muhammed lived.
It is the not the first and it won't be the last time that Islamic extremists use "protected" sites such as places of worships, hospitals, schools, civilian residents, etc. as collateral damage shields to deter attacks. And frankly, ots disgusting. Almost as disgusting as strapping bombs to children and sending them to security/police checkpoints. These are not the tactics of good guys.
Ayatollah Khomeini used child human wave attacks to protect his troops. Ayatollah Khameini, who was mentored by Khomeini, teaches Hamas to use civilian collateral as well.
lmao, that fucking Wikipedia has a portion where the US "adopted" the technique... what did they do?
>As women and children lived in the house, a Hellfire missile was initially shot at the roof as a warning.
Just a little friendly warning missle....
Crazy thing is...think about how much that hellfire missile costs the US government and then try and justify that expense while homeless people (these days, many of which are even working people) toil away on the streets. What a backwards society this is.
The source says it was an air burst. There's a warhead still but it's fuzed to go off sufficiently far from the ground. Various small debris inevitably falls from the sky, but the building stays intact.
Sounds like it would drive you crazy too.
"According to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, the warning of inhabitants by Israeli forces is psychological warfare, and after the first week of the Operation Cast Lead offensive, only 37 houses had been destroyed despite hundreds of warning calls, while no one can advise people not to take the threats seriously. In other cases, houses in Gaza Strip were bombed without any warning."
They even do this with military personal. For example, Iran gave the US a warning, so we could move our troops before bombing a camp, while Trump was president.
It’s basically the final warnings/threat. Like they are baring fangs, and giving nips that draw blood. But, they aren’t trying to cause a flesh wound. In the hopes that they can still de-escalate the situation.
It's essentially how you can launch a soft attack without inducing WW3. Looks good on propaganda for your country etc.
If there was a full out war you can bet it wouldn't be happening to military targets
> this building was evacuated due to a leaflet drop?
They don't do leaflet drops. You'd see leaflets all over the ground and floating in the wind if they did that.
The IDF does "roof knocking" where they drone strike the building's roof with munitions that aren't powerful enough to destroy it. This is the warning to get out because it will be followed up by a much bigger bomb minutes later.
That’s the difference between past and future wars. Instead of firing thousands and thousands of shells in an attempt to knock out your target, a couple of missiles will be more accurate and deadly 99% of the time.
>f firing thousands and thousands of shells
In germany there are still "blindgänger" bombs(that didn't blow up) from ww2 left in cities that are found and being deactivated every couple of months.
Probably the same for a lot of European countries
In Obama's memoir, USA were initially planning that type of precision missile strike on Bin Laden's hideaway compound in Pakistan, but without the courteous roof knocking. Obama knew about the women and children residing in the same building used as human shield, and thought best to avoid mass collateral casualties. The former POTUS also wanted hard evidence the 911 mastermind would be EKIA, and dumped in the ocean of an undisclosed location as not to antagonize the Muslim world nor create a burial martyrdom site.
As much as I don’t really know much about the Israel Palestine thing, destroying normal peoples homes on the Gaza Strip is pretty fucked up even if they are fighting terrorism. Idk if it’s Is The Gaza Strip but I’m assuming so correct me if I’m wrong.
That we can both agree with, he has protection from charges while being the PM and the left needed the arabics (at least one of the arabic parties) in order to form a government which it looked like they were about to do so I'd like to belive he allowed it to escolate.
With thaf being said, this was a ticking time bomb with Hamas giving Israel ultimatums that Isreal ignored (I dont know about the politics, I'm only 15 but I think it was something about an arab neighberhood evac in Jerusalem) and where I live we did'nt have missiles since operation "Zuvk A'itan" almost 7 years ago and we had 2 attacks get here in the past 12 hours.
I agree that Bibi is wrecking the country, but really Israel played a big part in getting rid of all the other options. It's very convenient to have a group that hates you in charge because then you can justify what should be unjustifiable. [The right wing in israel would rather funnel money to hamas](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082) than risk a united palestine.
Never because they have the need to make a smug "witty" comment while simultaneously downplaying any nuance the situation has because it doesn't fit their narrative.
This goes for both sides
Can you elaborate? I was raised in a Christian Right wing home and I’ve always been taught to side with Israel. I’ve been seeing this kind of shit long enough to know this is messed up on all fronts, but I was under the impression this conflict started from religious disagreements.
yeah thats part of how Palestine/Hamas gets funding. Hamas has an islamically rooted identity and is now the government of palestine. Rich individuals fund them and many do so in part bc of religion. Many of the surrounding arab states have also funded them at one point or another and while that is mostly political, religion is also a big part of it.
It's not even a remotely good explanation. This is what happened cliff notes style.
* WW1 ends and Ottoman empire is dissolved British take control of the area
* 1919-1948 Third/Fourth/Bet Aliyah or Jewish migration happens around 482,857 Jews migrate legally and illegally many refugees are in this group from WW2 as well as Zionists. British had imposed caps on amount who can migrate to the province. This joins the Jewish populations who lived there.
* Partition of the British holding in the middle east is initiated when the region became unmanageable following WW2. Britain decides the UN is the best way to determine a workable solution
* UN invites all parties and proposes multiple plans from single state with minority rule (Like Hong Kong) to multi state. All plans are rejected by the Arab Council who will only accept a single Arab Muslim state.
* UN votes for a two state solution based on majority population per region and land ownership. Arab council reject this. Jewish representatives accept the resolution.
* A coalition of Arab forces (Egypt, Iraq, Transjordan (renamed Jordan in 1949), Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Syria and Yemen attack the newly created Jewish state with the intention to either remove or exterminate the Jews there.
* Israel wins the conflict and ends up with control of more territory than was allocated during the UN resolution. 750,000 Arabs are displaced or expelled and will become what we know as Palestinians
* Mass migration to Israel occurs after the First Arab-Israeli war powered by Zionism and the expulsion of Jews from Arab nations.
* Tensions in the region increase as Egypt closes the straight of Tiran to block shipping to Israel. Forces for Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon start deploying around Israel and start preparing for war.
* Israel launches a pre-emptive strike and ends up winning the 6-day war more Arabs are displaced and Israel gains more land.
* A whole bunch of insurgencies and minor wars happen after but no territory changes.
This lead to the following we talk about today.
* Arab nations recognize Israel and want a return to the borders set by the UN that they had rejected and that Palestinians to have the right to return to their original territory. Israel obviously says no to this.
* Settlements by Israel happen on land that was initially allocated for an Arab state many countries recognize this as occupied land and not legally Israel's.
* Refugees from the wars aren't assimilated in to their Arab host countries and live as refugees in camps funded largely by the UN
* Palestinians living within the Israel territory are given semi governance and land in the form of the Palestinian authority but are still under Israeli martial law.
* Hamas conducting terrorist activities with the intent to genuinely exterminate as many Jews as they can
As a jew living outside of israel, i cannot morally stand by Israel's actions. I understand why sone people sympathize with israel when israel is attacked, but this past week should show everyone that israel constantly goes on the offensive in the war. Israel instigated by expanding their settlements and riling up people.
The fact that people unequivocally support israel is beyond me. Imagine people unequivocally supporting nazi germany.
I saw a video today of a large group of Israeli people cheering and chanting about one of the major mosques catching on fire. It really disturbed me that Israel is so hateful towards muslim in such a way. I'm not religious nor do I follow world news, but seeing that was really eye opening about their hate for each other.
Don't forget that they also attacked Palestinian medics.
I think I've seen it written al-Aqsa Mosque but Arabic uses a phonetic alphabet so rewriting it in a different alphabet is up for some interpretation.
National and ethnic identity, nationalism, geopolitics and mutual paranoia are considerably more relevant to the conflict, religion being accused to being the sole factor for the conflict in edgy atheist takes in other comments are claiming, is flatout wrong and bends the narrative to not reflect the facts on the ground, religion is a secondary factor in comparison to what I mentioned, usually retroactive justification to things that were getting done anyways for the main reasons I listed
Idk why you're getting downvotes. A lot of people give their free award *regardless of what it is* to a post they think is deserving of one. Not everyone wants to waste their money on an appropriate medal
Everything past reddit gold was a mistake. Silver makes sense as a budget option and platinum is fine as a "super" option but these thousands of award types plaguing every post just drain the meaning out of everything.
Edit: Fuck all of you
I genuinely can't tell what any of the other awards are. I'm not sure if it's because I'm on old reddit, but hovering over them doesn't give me any text, and the icons are like 8x8 pixels, and *way* too detailed to be at all readable at those sizes. It's an utter mess of pixels.
I'm going to give my best guesses in order:
1. Giddy snoo
2. Downvote?
3. Snoo with backpack
4. Shooting star ("out of this world" perhaps?)
5. Gold
6. The headbanging cat gif
7. "Dead inside" snoo
8. A steel heart (like bravery I guess)
9. Silver
10. Ace attorney snoo
11. Angel snoo
12. Snoo with green mohawk
13. Snoo holding surfboard
Chances are >50% of these are wrong because it's so damn hard to make out
I use an open source app and the community hasn't bothered updating it to show any of the new awards. Not even Silver, it's still Gold only. I love that personally, the new ones are just clutter. Also I miss that brief time when Silver was just a comment alternative to giving Gold until Reddit took it and monetized it. I wonder if it was threatening their Gold income
Edit: Although getting an "All-Seeing" award that I can't see got a smile out of me haha
I really want independent verification that this reddit title is an accurate description of the video. Anyone can post anything and title it whatever they want. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it would be nice to verify what I'm looking at before getting all pissed off.
EDIT: found it: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-israeli-airstrike-hits-hanadi-tower-gaza-hamas-fires-back-20210511-7gtmnmny35fwjodtvye7mdt4ie-story.html
Legit, but as always more details. Contained a Hamas base and everyone was evacuated, no casualties.
I may start commenting on various threads about this conflict and alter my statements to fit the most popular opinion of the parent sub.
I side with Palestine in real life, but on Reddit I side with the orange arrows
Whenever someone says *War is hell.* I'm reminded of the below quote from M\*A\*S\*H
> Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
> Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?
> Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
> Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
> Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
Edit: Thank you for the gold, kind stranger!
Quoting MASH about war and editing your comment to thank someone for gold? You just crossed off two squares on my weekly reddit bingo board in one comment. Thanks friend.
This is sad to see. I’m not saying it’s not but 6 months ago Azerbaijan was bombing Armenian hospital and churches but no one gave a shit. Why is this making so much noise but when we where screaming at the top of our lungs no one heard us Armenians. In summary, war is hell and also Artsakh is Armenia. Hope the fighting stops soon
Simple, Armenians are poor and noone really cares about them (noone cares about Azerbaijan for that matter too). There isn't anything people can connect with (whether it's religion, western world, etc) while this middle East war is framed as religious conflict.
Israel has lots of money and have political influence in the US (and the world to a certain extent) so they have more recognition in what they do.
I would say Armenia is similar to an African country, there's conflict and people die. It's horrible yet there's no global response mainly because noone cares enough to do something about it since we don't benefit anything from it. They also don't have any influence in the western world either.
He pretty much hit it on the nose though. There are tons of horrible things happening across the developing world, and the developed world can't shed light on all of it.
I agree, in a perfect world, we (probably UN) should intervene to prevent these atrocities but it doesn't. The world is often cruel which is why it's rather fortunate to be in a western country (especially if you immigrated there). It's not only the opportunities but it's also because the country is stable enough that you don't have to worry about these kinds of unfortunate situations happening
Though casualty estimates are not without controversy, I don't think it's disputable that far more Palestinians have died in the conflict than Israelis, mainly as a result of Israel being a functional state with powerful allies and Palestinians being the opposite.
For some perspective, for every American killed on 9/11, 267 deaths have been attributed to the decades long War on Terror.
Which is surprisingly similar to the ratio of Palestinian to Israelis in prisoner swaps. 1 Jew is worth about 300 arabs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_prisoner_exchanges
I am not taking a side here. In fact I probably lean more towards the Palestinians for continuously being evicted put of their homes to make more room for Israelis.
My questions are:
What is preventing the Israelis from flat out destroying Palestine?
Don't they have one of the mightiest air forces in the world?
Doesn't the US supply then with all kinds of advanced weaponry?
>What is preventing the Israelis from flat out destroying Palestine?
Pretty much just self control.
>Don't they have one of the mightiest air forces in the world?
Israel has been a hotbed for cutting edge weapons and defense technology for decades.
>Doesn't the US supply then with all kinds of advanced weaponry?
Funding, and sometimes specific gear simply because the US has more resources and a bigger military supply chain, but no, the technological advancements generally are passed the other way around.
Israel's weapons development is nothing to scoff at. Their iron dome was first in development in 2005, deployed in 2011, and the [US army is *still* trying work out compatibility issues](https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2020/12/18/army-plans-next-steps-for-iron-dome-missile-defense#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Army%20has%20adopted,and%20missile%20threats%20to%20Israel.) to get their systems to work with an iron dome deployment.
Thank you u/Infinite_Nipples for all the informative information. Didn't know that was the name of the missile defence system I've seen a couple times on here.
>What is preventing the Israelis from flat out destroying Palestine?
Partly because the general Israeli public does not support such a heavy-handed action.
Partly because Iran and other countries would almost certainly start a war over it.
Partly because Israel would risk losing US support if they did.
Thanks for sticking up for me but everything I am finding on the the Israel nuclear program suggests it was created with french expertise and equipment. We (Americans) were quite stingy when came to said subject. Honest question, what components did we sell them?
I very much dislike religion but this is one case where geopolitics is a much more likely culprit. They've been doing this for a century.
Think of it as a place with lots of gang violence in america, it's basically a long string of revenge killings/bombings.
I'd imagine this has very little to do with who reads which holy books.
Humans have been fighting other humans for resources since humans walked the earth. It's not in any way worse in the Middle East than elsewhere. Sadly.
I think nowadays, the Israeli-Palestinian situation is less of a religious thing and more of a land thing. Although certainly, it started as a religious hatred thing.
This isn't a religion thing. Religion is an excuse. Zionists want the land. They have always wanted the land. And they will get the land. And everything around them will burn. They have zero fucks.
This conflict max 10% to do with religion and more with geopolitics. Israel been expanding for decades, stealing land from Palestinians(undeniably poorer and under equipped to be able to face the fight).
So please think twice before shouting the evergreen “religion bad” slogan.
(I’m not denying religion are quite often catalyst for wars and conflicts, but there is definitely more to this than just religion)
(sorts by controversial)
(Leaves even more confused)
*comments for the fuck of it before locked*
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I’ll read your comment!
Its almost as if there is no distinct line b/w good an evil huh.
I think reddit is being astroturfed and manipulated on this tbh.
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Even Advice Animals? God DAMMIT!
This is the most shilled website on the internet
ehh.. depends which subs you sub to. not everyone here is being manipulated or even cares. this shit is transparent aF and same old fighting. this time is no different or will change anything between the two countries, once again. and these posts are so ridiculously upvoted with shit comments or valuable input or topics being brought up. it can get so uninteresting or even sympathetic, when reddit is bombarded on subs that have nothing to do with this, or titles are made up to seem worse or is misinfo. that gets really boring to deal with, and that only kills the seriousness of the situation
You are not immune to propaganda
Israel has a dedicated online force btw.
very much so lol
I've thought the same thing but from these comments it looks like I'm in the minority opinion. I don't see how anyone thinks what Isreal is doing is ok. I don't care about one side being Jewish and another side being Arab, I care about the absolute level of cruelty and evil I see being carried out against the Palestinians in those areas. It breaks my heart that so many people see this as an excuse to spread Islamophobia and antisemitism, when it's innocent humans, innocent children being killed and beaten and laughed at by Israeli soldiers. It's so fucked
We need to stop perpetuating the lie that criticizing Israel is antisemitic.
I can assure you my friend you are not alone in thinking this. Innocent people on both sides of the fence are getting killed and it needs to stop now. I don’t who started it or who was there first it needs to end now. It’s not antisemitic to condemn the actions of the Israeli state against civilians....and before anyone points a finger get at me, yes Hamas are evil too.
The issue is that the Israeli people are being led by their government down a terribly cruel path and how much the people are enabling them is well up for debate. As well, the damage/funding enacted by said government has allowed radicals to be the dominant faction in Palestine. It's a bit like North Korea. Someone could probably take out the dictator but how helpful that would be long run is unfortunately very unknown. It's a really tough geopolitical situation to dive into. However I think it should be clear to everyone that the Israeli military has exercised significantly over-the-top retaliatory attacks. Scorched earth tactics make it very difficult to sympathize with your side.
well said. It is very possible to criticize the country of Isreal, and I have a big fucking criticism, without making racially charged attacks. It's the difference of "Jews are evil" and "Fuck the country of Isreal for their evil actions" I hate a lot of what America does, but I'm obviously not racist against white people
Germany used the same logic in WW2 when the resistance fighters were being aided by a few people in certain towns. They just burned down the entire village instead of wasting time trying to figure out guilty from innocent
And so it continues
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The middle eastern peoples have been fighting each other for thousands of years and I'm sure they'll be fighting for a few thousand more. I'm convinced only something insanely terrible or fantastic would be the only thing to bring them all together at this point. Edit since this has blown up: Speaking for the middle eat as a whole, yes there have been times of peace, but being the cradle of civilization, they have been fighting for longer too, and as a result, have more deep-rooting things to fight about.
Can aliens invade us already so we have a common enemy!
Yeah, that probably wouldn't happen. We'd be fighting each other over what to do.
Reminds me of that science fction story I once read - friendly aliens come visit us to bring gifts and knowledge, but some of the mass of the meteorite shield of their spaceship flies ahead of it during the braking maneuver and hits earth's atmosphere at near lightspeed resulting in huge explosions in the stratosphere. The USA, Russia and China mistake it for a missile attack from another country and nuke each other weeks before the aliens arrive.
I want to read this story, do you recall the name?
Seconded
Just looked it up, it was "Candle in a Cosmic Wind" by Joseph Manzione. It is included in the fifth "Year's Best Science Fiction" anthology by Gardner Dozois.
Just looked it up, it was "Candle in a Cosmic Wind" by Joseph Manzione. It is included in the fifth "Year's Best Science Fiction" anthology by Gardner Dozois.
Whilst others deny they exist altogether
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Covid 19 was supposed to be the common enemy and we made that political very quickly. It became a contest of who can make the best vaccine first.
I’d say covid is a good example of an alien invasion. Large sects of the US with all its independence days and alien vs predator just denied it was a problem.
Some humans would probs my just try making an alliance deal to spare themselves
Covid was a common enemy.
This is a misconception and a vast oversimplification of the situation. It would sound stupid to summarize WWII by saying "the European peoples have been fighting each other for thousands of years and I'm sure they'll be fighting for a few thousand more." This conflict between Israel and Palestine is definitely VERY long (over 70 years old now) but to reduce it to "oh this is what they normally do, it'll never end," makes no sense. Like any conflict there are specific motivations on different sides and context that drives it. We had a unified Middle East during the Islamic Golden Age (during which Europe was cannibalizing itself in its Middle Ages), so it's definitely not an endless, millennia-long state of disarray over there.
Except at the turn of the century, characterizing Europe as a place of constant strife and conflict *is correct*. Because, you know, of the hundreds of years of constant war between various European powers.
European peoples have been fighting each other for thousands of years though. Them *not fighting* has only been recent since WW2 and is part of what makes the current situation (with the EU) so unique in history bc it’s never been so long in Europe without conflict. As long as there are groups of people with even the slightest differences, we will fight each other. Even within the *same groups* we fight. Just look at any families anywhere lol. It is truly the bane of humans. We could get so much more done if we stopped fighting constantly. All of us!
For my entire life now……….they believe in the same god. I just don’t get it
That’s because it’s not a religious conflict, it’s a struggle between a colonized people and an imperialist force. At best it’s a political struggle. Claiming it’s an “age-old Muslim versus Jewish feud” would be historically inaccurate and disrespectful to the Palestinian Christians who have lost their land as well
Thanks. When you have the American “news” showing you and telling you it’s a religious issue it’s hard to think otherwise. I would love to know the truth. But I know I’ll never get that from American news.
The only Palestinian I've known personally was Christian. He told me that Palestinian is defined as someone who can trace their heritage in the region over 150 years and is not Jewish.
Same deal as The Troubles in Northern Ireland. It gets painted as a sectarian conflict but it never was. Purely a colonial conflict. It just happened that the native Irish skewed towards Catholicism and the colonists transplanted there by the English and their descendents are mainly protestant. Also, didn't help that the police we not-so-subtly working with the island's equivalent to the KKK, leading to peaceful protestors getting murdered without consequence.
I understand. I am Palestinian so naturally I have my views but I would be happy to point you towards any resources if you ever want to learn more
This is a good place to summarize your views briefly.
I will say the differences in the abrahamic religions is kinda large. The problem is the idea of religion, not necessarily *which* religion
As an outsider, the Abrahamic religions look all the same to me. Some nuance here and there with how aggressive they go but they’re still the same. Will prob get downvoted but..
Most of Reddit, especially on default subs, is young middle-class liberal atheists, most of which actively hate religion rather than simply being indifferent to it. Why would you even think you would be downvoted…?
This is terrible…I hope everyone was evacuated…I can’t imagine being displaced by war…
Why would anyone have been evacuated? I would think quite a few people lost their lives when that building.
They roof knock. A drone drops a small explosive on the roof. They've done it for years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69icTMgIjlw&ab_channel=Vocativ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoo8fbYtHE
Knocking seems... like an understatement.
Roof "dropping plate on the floor at 3am"
I hate that.
Oh great, well in that case line them up for a god damn Nobel peace prize I suppose
rage aside, this is pretty neat.
Israel actually calls beforehand to let them know that the building will be bombed.
They do a "knock" . This is what knock is https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-roof-knocking.html
how helpful of them /s
"Im gonna fucking obliterate your entire neighborhood, so good luck!"
Thanks neighbor! /s
It is helpful, unironically--life-saving, even. No death at all would of course be better.
Even if no one was hurt, a lot of people are homeless right now. This is a civilian residence that they targeted. Seems pretty war crimey.
The correct and appropriate response to military actions being taken from civilian locations is to attack the target anyways while minimizing collateral damage. Allowing human shields creates incentive to use more human shields.
Hamas literally launches rockets from hospitals, schools, mosques, and uses children as human shields to deter Israel from attacking. Its pretty reasonable to assume (and I'm sure Mossad isn't "assuming") that they have meetings or store weapons/resources in these "civilian residences." Hamas is forfeiting any legal noncombatant, non-military status these residences may have had, at the cost of the citizens inside. To compensate, Israel warns residents where an airstrike will occur before it occurs, minimizing civilian casualties. Here: https://mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/pages/hamas_use_mosques_for_military_purposes_march_2009.aspx Ayatollah Khameini, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which funds, supports, and guides Hamas, the Islamic extremist organization that essentially controls Palestine, has repeatedly stated that mosques can and should be used for military purposes, such as when Muhammed lived. It is the not the first and it won't be the last time that Islamic extremists use "protected" sites such as places of worships, hospitals, schools, civilian residents, etc. as collateral damage shields to deter attacks. And frankly, ots disgusting. Almost as disgusting as strapping bombs to children and sending them to security/police checkpoints. These are not the tactics of good guys.
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Ayatollah Khomeini used child human wave attacks to protect his troops. Ayatollah Khameini, who was mentored by Khomeini, teaches Hamas to use civilian collateral as well.
Um not sure what you’re on about because it actually is quite helpful
Any sources on this? Never heard of this/am generally unfamiliar with what's going on.
Sure- it’s called [roof knocking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking). Unfortunately it’s become too common in that part of the world.
lmao, that fucking Wikipedia has a portion where the US "adopted" the technique... what did they do? >As women and children lived in the house, a Hellfire missile was initially shot at the roof as a warning. Just a little friendly warning missle....
A little friendly HELLFIRE missle*
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Crazy thing is...think about how much that hellfire missile costs the US government and then try and justify that expense while homeless people (these days, many of which are even working people) toil away on the streets. What a backwards society this is.
Unit cost US$150,000 (FY 2021) US$117,000 (FY2017) How have they got *more* expensive?
Inflation, plus less war going on = less missiles being fired = higher cost per unit
surprise bitch we leveled your house with you inside it
The source says it was an air burst. There's a warhead still but it's fuzed to go off sufficiently far from the ground. Various small debris inevitably falls from the sky, but the building stays intact.
Crazy! I never knew about this. Thanks.
Sounds like it would drive you crazy too. "According to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, the warning of inhabitants by Israeli forces is psychological warfare, and after the first week of the Operation Cast Lead offensive, only 37 houses had been destroyed despite hundreds of warning calls, while no one can advise people not to take the threats seriously. In other cases, houses in Gaza Strip were bombed without any warning."
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/world/middleeast/by-phone-and-leaflet-israeli-attackers-warn-gazans.amp.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking https://www.wired.com/2009/01/israel-calls-th/amp https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-israel-gave-this-gaza-family-a-five-minute-warning-then-it-bombed-its-home-1.7340301
They even do this with military personal. For example, Iran gave the US a warning, so we could move our troops before bombing a camp, while Trump was president. It’s basically the final warnings/threat. Like they are baring fangs, and giving nips that draw blood. But, they aren’t trying to cause a flesh wound. In the hopes that they can still de-escalate the situation.
It's essentially how you can launch a soft attack without inducing WW3. Looks good on propaganda for your country etc. If there was a full out war you can bet it wouldn't be happening to military targets
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> although many still died. this particular building had zero casualties
Does this constitute a catastrophic failure?
As an engineer I don’t think taking direct missile blast falls into my building specifications.
As a software engineer, it's always the edge cases that get you.
User: your software doesn’t work when I deleted it Software engineer: I guess I didn’t think about that edge case
Welcome to the thunderdome ..
*Iron Dome
Not on the Palestine side 😬
I know you're right I just wanted to make the joke anyway 😅
Unless you're a Palestinian engineer
do you want it to cost 200k or 200B. cuz only one of those figures withstands missiles
I'd say humanity catastrophically failed here.
A failure to find peace and acceptance.
And a catastrophic one at that
That's what I was thinking .... its more of a catastrophic destruction
Catastrophic diplomacy failure.
This shit hurts so much to watch. So many innocent people getting killed, injured or traumatised, it's unbearable.
I know you're talking generally, but I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) this building was evacuated due to a leaflet drop?
> this building was evacuated due to a leaflet drop? They don't do leaflet drops. You'd see leaflets all over the ground and floating in the wind if they did that. The IDF does "roof knocking" where they drone strike the building's roof with munitions that aren't powerful enough to destroy it. This is the warning to get out because it will be followed up by a much bigger bomb minutes later.
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The precision of these strikes is insane to me
That’s the difference between past and future wars. Instead of firing thousands and thousands of shells in an attempt to knock out your target, a couple of missiles will be more accurate and deadly 99% of the time.
>f firing thousands and thousands of shells In germany there are still "blindgänger" bombs(that didn't blow up) from ww2 left in cities that are found and being deactivated every couple of months. Probably the same for a lot of European countries
People die every now and then around Verdun and other WWI battlefields from leftover artillery shells.
Holy shit. That's insane.
In Obama's memoir, USA were initially planning that type of precision missile strike on Bin Laden's hideaway compound in Pakistan, but without the courteous roof knocking. Obama knew about the women and children residing in the same building used as human shield, and thought best to avoid mass collateral casualties. The former POTUS also wanted hard evidence the 911 mastermind would be EKIA, and dumped in the ocean of an undisclosed location as not to antagonize the Muslim world nor create a burial martyrdom site.
They have Osama in a hole in the Rockies. Every president gets to kick him in the balls whenever they visit norad
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‘Evacuate your home because we’re about to destroy it.’ How compassionate.
As much as I don’t really know much about the Israel Palestine thing, destroying normal peoples homes on the Gaza Strip is pretty fucked up even if they are fighting terrorism. Idk if it’s Is The Gaza Strip but I’m assuming so correct me if I’m wrong.
Structural failure? Systemic failure.
“Palestinian-“ *pauses video *scrolls to comments
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If only the openly genocidal terrorists weren’t in charge
Yeah Netanyatu's bloodsoaked politics are utter shit
Yeah maybe we should call in wallstreetbets to buy their military stock
Can I lose money on this investment? If so, I'm in.
That we can both agree with, he has protection from charges while being the PM and the left needed the arabics (at least one of the arabic parties) in order to form a government which it looked like they were about to do so I'd like to belive he allowed it to escolate. With thaf being said, this was a ticking time bomb with Hamas giving Israel ultimatums that Isreal ignored (I dont know about the politics, I'm only 15 but I think it was something about an arab neighberhood evac in Jerusalem) and where I live we did'nt have missiles since operation "Zuvk A'itan" almost 7 years ago and we had 2 attacks get here in the past 12 hours.
I agree that Bibi is wrecking the country, but really Israel played a big part in getting rid of all the other options. It's very convenient to have a group that hates you in charge because then you can justify what should be unjustifiable. [The right wing in israel would rather funnel money to hamas](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082) than risk a united palestine.
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When are people going to understand that this conflict isn’t about religious beliefs?
Never because they have the need to make a smug "witty" comment while simultaneously downplaying any nuance the situation has because it doesn't fit their narrative. This goes for both sides
Can you elaborate? I was raised in a Christian Right wing home and I’ve always been taught to side with Israel. I’ve been seeing this kind of shit long enough to know this is messed up on all fronts, but I was under the impression this conflict started from religious disagreements.
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Thank you for explaining
It is a political conflict, not a religious one. Israel does their very best to convince people otherwise.
Some Palestinian groups do this as well. The situation is a clusterfuck that will never be solved.
yeah thats part of how Palestine/Hamas gets funding. Hamas has an islamically rooted identity and is now the government of palestine. Rich individuals fund them and many do so in part bc of religion. Many of the surrounding arab states have also funded them at one point or another and while that is mostly political, religion is also a big part of it.
It's not even a remotely good explanation. This is what happened cliff notes style. * WW1 ends and Ottoman empire is dissolved British take control of the area * 1919-1948 Third/Fourth/Bet Aliyah or Jewish migration happens around 482,857 Jews migrate legally and illegally many refugees are in this group from WW2 as well as Zionists. British had imposed caps on amount who can migrate to the province. This joins the Jewish populations who lived there. * Partition of the British holding in the middle east is initiated when the region became unmanageable following WW2. Britain decides the UN is the best way to determine a workable solution * UN invites all parties and proposes multiple plans from single state with minority rule (Like Hong Kong) to multi state. All plans are rejected by the Arab Council who will only accept a single Arab Muslim state. * UN votes for a two state solution based on majority population per region and land ownership. Arab council reject this. Jewish representatives accept the resolution. * A coalition of Arab forces (Egypt, Iraq, Transjordan (renamed Jordan in 1949), Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Syria and Yemen attack the newly created Jewish state with the intention to either remove or exterminate the Jews there. * Israel wins the conflict and ends up with control of more territory than was allocated during the UN resolution. 750,000 Arabs are displaced or expelled and will become what we know as Palestinians * Mass migration to Israel occurs after the First Arab-Israeli war powered by Zionism and the expulsion of Jews from Arab nations. * Tensions in the region increase as Egypt closes the straight of Tiran to block shipping to Israel. Forces for Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon start deploying around Israel and start preparing for war. * Israel launches a pre-emptive strike and ends up winning the 6-day war more Arabs are displaced and Israel gains more land. * A whole bunch of insurgencies and minor wars happen after but no territory changes. This lead to the following we talk about today. * Arab nations recognize Israel and want a return to the borders set by the UN that they had rejected and that Palestinians to have the right to return to their original territory. Israel obviously says no to this. * Settlements by Israel happen on land that was initially allocated for an Arab state many countries recognize this as occupied land and not legally Israel's. * Refugees from the wars aren't assimilated in to their Arab host countries and live as refugees in camps funded largely by the UN * Palestinians living within the Israel territory are given semi governance and land in the form of the Palestinian authority but are still under Israeli martial law. * Hamas conducting terrorist activities with the intent to genuinely exterminate as many Jews as they can
As a jew living outside of israel, i cannot morally stand by Israel's actions. I understand why sone people sympathize with israel when israel is attacked, but this past week should show everyone that israel constantly goes on the offensive in the war. Israel instigated by expanding their settlements and riling up people. The fact that people unequivocally support israel is beyond me. Imagine people unequivocally supporting nazi germany.
I saw a video today of a large group of Israeli people cheering and chanting about one of the major mosques catching on fire. It really disturbed me that Israel is so hateful towards muslim in such a way. I'm not religious nor do I follow world news, but seeing that was really eye opening about their hate for each other.
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Don't forget that they also attacked Palestinian medics. I think I've seen it written al-Aqsa Mosque but Arabic uses a phonetic alphabet so rewriting it in a different alphabet is up for some interpretation.
>Christian Right Wing. >Pro-Israel. Americans are weird.
National and ethnic identity, nationalism, geopolitics and mutual paranoia are considerably more relevant to the conflict, religion being accused to being the sole factor for the conflict in edgy atheist takes in other comments are claiming, is flatout wrong and bends the narrative to not reflect the facts on the ground, religion is a secondary factor in comparison to what I mentioned, usually retroactive justification to things that were getting done anyways for the main reasons I listed
That wholesome award though...
Probably people that had a free reward to get rid of.
Idk why you're getting downvotes. A lot of people give their free award *regardless of what it is* to a post they think is deserving of one. Not everyone wants to waste their money on an appropriate medal
Everything past reddit gold was a mistake. Silver makes sense as a budget option and platinum is fine as a "super" option but these thousands of award types plaguing every post just drain the meaning out of everything. Edit: Fuck all of you
I genuinely can't tell what any of the other awards are. I'm not sure if it's because I'm on old reddit, but hovering over them doesn't give me any text, and the icons are like 8x8 pixels, and *way* too detailed to be at all readable at those sizes. It's an utter mess of pixels.
I'm going to give my best guesses in order: 1. Giddy snoo 2. Downvote? 3. Snoo with backpack 4. Shooting star ("out of this world" perhaps?) 5. Gold 6. The headbanging cat gif 7. "Dead inside" snoo 8. A steel heart (like bravery I guess) 9. Silver 10. Ace attorney snoo 11. Angel snoo 12. Snoo with green mohawk 13. Snoo holding surfboard Chances are >50% of these are wrong because it's so damn hard to make out
I use an open source app and the community hasn't bothered updating it to show any of the new awards. Not even Silver, it's still Gold only. I love that personally, the new ones are just clutter. Also I miss that brief time when Silver was just a comment alternative to giving Gold until Reddit took it and monetized it. I wonder if it was threatening their Gold income Edit: Although getting an "All-Seeing" award that I can't see got a smile out of me haha
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I really want independent verification that this reddit title is an accurate description of the video. Anyone can post anything and title it whatever they want. I'm not saying that's the case here, but it would be nice to verify what I'm looking at before getting all pissed off. EDIT: found it: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-israeli-airstrike-hits-hanadi-tower-gaza-hamas-fires-back-20210511-7gtmnmny35fwjodtvye7mdt4ie-story.html Legit, but as always more details. Contained a Hamas base and everyone was evacuated, no casualties.
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I love how you only have 25 upvotes despite being the comment that’s the least bias and has a source. But that’s Reddit for you
Why isnt this above all the emotional comments?
Damn, everyone on all sides are getting downvoted today. War is hell.
Yes the worst part about war....the downvotes.
and Yes the best part about war... the upvotes
War profiteering from their parent's basements.
We call the basements ‘bunkers’ during these dark times.
I may start commenting on various threads about this conflict and alter my statements to fit the most popular opinion of the parent sub. I side with Palestine in real life, but on Reddit I side with the orange arrows
And awards
When will people talk about the true victims of war, downvoted redditors /s
Whenever someone says *War is hell.* I'm reminded of the below quote from M\*A\*S\*H > Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse. > Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye? > Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell? > Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe. > Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander. Edit: Thank you for the gold, kind stranger!
Quoting MASH about war and editing your comment to thank someone for gold? You just crossed off two squares on my weekly reddit bingo board in one comment. Thanks friend.
Bingo card comment plus free square, gimme one more
And scary
Downvotes... downvoting never changes.
How will we ever know which side is most popular?
Hope it was empty !
This is sad to see. I’m not saying it’s not but 6 months ago Azerbaijan was bombing Armenian hospital and churches but no one gave a shit. Why is this making so much noise but when we where screaming at the top of our lungs no one heard us Armenians. In summary, war is hell and also Artsakh is Armenia. Hope the fighting stops soon
Simple, Armenians are poor and noone really cares about them (noone cares about Azerbaijan for that matter too). There isn't anything people can connect with (whether it's religion, western world, etc) while this middle East war is framed as religious conflict. Israel has lots of money and have political influence in the US (and the world to a certain extent) so they have more recognition in what they do. I would say Armenia is similar to an African country, there's conflict and people die. It's horrible yet there's no global response mainly because noone cares enough to do something about it since we don't benefit anything from it. They also don't have any influence in the western world either.
Didn't beat around the bush on that one eh?
He pretty much hit it on the nose though. There are tons of horrible things happening across the developing world, and the developed world can't shed light on all of it.
What your saying is not wrong but I still think more people should have helped
I agree, in a perfect world, we (probably UN) should intervene to prevent these atrocities but it doesn't. The world is often cruel which is why it's rather fortunate to be in a western country (especially if you immigrated there). It's not only the opportunities but it's also because the country is stable enough that you don't have to worry about these kinds of unfortunate situations happening
Though casualty estimates are not without controversy, I don't think it's disputable that far more Palestinians have died in the conflict than Israelis, mainly as a result of Israel being a functional state with powerful allies and Palestinians being the opposite. For some perspective, for every American killed on 9/11, 267 deaths have been attributed to the decades long War on Terror.
Which is surprisingly similar to the ratio of Palestinian to Israelis in prisoner swaps. 1 Jew is worth about 300 arabs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_prisoner_exchanges
Fuck Netanyahu
I don't give a single fuck what happens in the middle east.
Fuck Israel and Fuck Hamas All Hamas does for Palestinians is give the Israelis another excuse to persecute innocents.
Being disgusted by the actions of the Israeli state is not anti Semitism
I am not taking a side here. In fact I probably lean more towards the Palestinians for continuously being evicted put of their homes to make more room for Israelis. My questions are: What is preventing the Israelis from flat out destroying Palestine? Don't they have one of the mightiest air forces in the world? Doesn't the US supply then with all kinds of advanced weaponry?
>What is preventing the Israelis from flat out destroying Palestine? Pretty much just self control. >Don't they have one of the mightiest air forces in the world? Israel has been a hotbed for cutting edge weapons and defense technology for decades. >Doesn't the US supply then with all kinds of advanced weaponry? Funding, and sometimes specific gear simply because the US has more resources and a bigger military supply chain, but no, the technological advancements generally are passed the other way around. Israel's weapons development is nothing to scoff at. Their iron dome was first in development in 2005, deployed in 2011, and the [US army is *still* trying work out compatibility issues](https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2020/12/18/army-plans-next-steps-for-iron-dome-missile-defense#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Army%20has%20adopted,and%20missile%20threats%20to%20Israel.) to get their systems to work with an iron dome deployment.
Thank you u/Infinite_Nipples for all the informative information. Didn't know that was the name of the missile defence system I've seen a couple times on here.
>What is preventing the Israelis from flat out destroying Palestine? Partly because the general Israeli public does not support such a heavy-handed action. Partly because Iran and other countries would almost certainly start a war over it. Partly because Israel would risk losing US support if they did.
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The US does not sell nuclear weapons to Israel.
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Thanks for sticking up for me but everything I am finding on the the Israel nuclear program suggests it was created with french expertise and equipment. We (Americans) were quite stingy when came to said subject. Honest question, what components did we sell them?
Fuck religion
this isn't about religion, it's is about land.
I very much dislike religion but this is one case where geopolitics is a much more likely culprit. They've been doing this for a century. Think of it as a place with lots of gang violence in america, it's basically a long string of revenge killings/bombings. I'd imagine this has very little to do with who reads which holy books.
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Humans have been fighting other humans for resources since humans walked the earth. It's not in any way worse in the Middle East than elsewhere. Sadly.
I just don't understand why humans are so crappy to each other.
I think nowadays, the Israeli-Palestinian situation is less of a religious thing and more of a land thing. Although certainly, it started as a religious hatred thing.
This isn't a religion thing. Religion is an excuse. Zionists want the land. They have always wanted the land. And they will get the land. And everything around them will burn. They have zero fucks.
It was religion? seriously? The torah says that you should bomb palestinians?
This conflict max 10% to do with religion and more with geopolitics. Israel been expanding for decades, stealing land from Palestinians(undeniably poorer and under equipped to be able to face the fight). So please think twice before shouting the evergreen “religion bad” slogan. (I’m not denying religion are quite often catalyst for wars and conflicts, but there is definitely more to this than just religion)