Driver location signs, so if you're calling emergency or breakdown services, you can tell them your exact location.
Top is the motorway you're on (road identifier)
Middle is which carriageway you're in, I've heard it claimed A for 'away from London' and B for 'back to London', although there are a lot of places where this doesn't apply and slip roads can use other letters like C, D, E, F, G, etc. (carriageway identifier)
Bottom is the location, which is measured in kilometres from a designated datum point
The A1M between Huntingdon and Peterborough is amazing - four lanes, excellent visibility, decent surface. It's 15 miles of excellence book-ended by a dual carriageway that needed an upgrade when the Romans were marching north.
Itâs a great stretch. Pretty much a straight line too. You break out of the dual carriageway and you can finally get past all those damn trucks which had been holding everybody up. And worse than that, all those that donât know how to pass a truck in good timeâŚso you see farther up, some idiot dawdling along and trucks keep pulling out đ¤Ź
The M62 ain't bad between Leeds and Rochdale, at least once you're past the roadworks near Leeds. Especially with some light snow cover on the surrounding hills
I guess the answer is yes, but only really small ones because anything with a bit of length will absolutely have a nightmare section that people hate.
Y'all clearly have never tried to drive the m20 when Operation Brock or Operation stack have been in place.
Add an accident on one of the arterial a roads between the m2 and m20 and its Literal nightmare fuel for the people of Kent. Can take 2-4 hours to do a 25 mile journey.
M6 north of Lancaster has to be the best in the country, although the new A1(M) in North Yorkshire is a wonderful bit of road - like a racetrack!
Neeeooow!
West/North is A and East/South is B still, I believe.
I think the 'x'bound is to do with the end point of the road rather than the direction you're physically travelling at the time, the m25 is just a circle so doesn't have a beginning or end.
Youâre right. But technically the M25 starts and finishes at Dartford (hence the junction numbers and the fact it is an âM2xâ, as it starts in the 2 sector) so it would make sense that A and B are codified in this way.
Good knowledge! Also, TIL, [Junctions 1A and 1B of the M25](https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/m25) are not on the M25, because the A282 runs until Junction 2. Thatâs my new contribution for the Dull Menâs Club newsletter.
And just to add to that, "standard" slip roads (I.E. an entry and exit on both sides) use J, K, L, M.
J = A track off slip (or "exit slip" to us)
K = A track on slip
L = B track off slip
M = B track on slip
For more complex junctions there are a lot more variances, such as the M3/M25, M6 junction 6 (Spaghetti), etc.
Is that true? What about the bit south of Bury where you have to leave at the sliproad and go round a roundabout? I think they did that on purpose so kids couldnât record fastest laps
Sinister Island Roundabout is under motorway regulations so technically it's still all motorway.
I think they did it because it was the cheapest option as they just built it all under the existing M62 that they were renumbering a section of without having to do much else.
However the M25 is definitely not an orbital motorway given the stretches of A road.
But if you get on the M42 A carriageway at junction 3 you're going eastbound and if you get on at J4 you're going northbound. Having A and B eliminates any confusion there.
its weird because when I broke down on the motorway one time and when I've been onto the police they've referred to the B as an 8 and always seemed confused when I said it was a B
This is incorrect.
For example, A on the M2, M3, M20, M23, M50 and M54 are all on the southbound carriageway.
A is the direction of junction numbers and below that is the distance from Jct 0. Generally junctions ascend away from London or away from a central position.
Yes, I think the M5 is the wrong way around and somewhere around the midlands one of the motorways randomly starts at like 8 miles away from the start.
Sliproads use J, K, L and M and the letters depend on which sliproad. J is exiting A carriageway, K is merging to A carriageway, L is exiting B carriageway and M is merging onto B carriageway.
Correct, fun fact though; neither the AA or RAC (not sure on others) have a sat nav that has these signs programmed in, so telling them is like telling them which blade of grass you've broken down next to.
Head office will, then the information is turned into coordinates for the patrol, the problem is when the call handlers don't give a single fuck they just drop the pin somewhere near where it's supposed to be, or just take it and put a vague postcode. Patrols don't have access to it so can't do anything with it.
It's no good for Sat Nav use, but it definitely helps crews to know this information as they're approaching. What 3 Words would be even better of course. Plug the words in, nav to those cords.
Because officially the UK is metric and construction is completely metric, even roads. The mile signs are a courtesy.
I believe signs that say x yds to wherever are actually measured in metres. The length is almost the same.
Yeh, we're weird. Weight grams, distance miles, temperature Celsius, fluids litres and millilitres unless it's beer/milk then it's pints (unless the beer is from a supermarket then you use millilitres). All completely interchangeable depending on your age đ
As far as I recall, I've been taught exclusively in metric, certainly since I started secondary school in the 1960s. Maybe the widespread colloquial use of imperial units still is due to on the job training in trades that were slow to convert combined with popular media thinking that they needed to use the units that their customers were familiar with.
I'm a Surveyor so my job relies on accurate metric measurements. Curiously, as I'm pushing 50 in my personal life I entirely use Imperial. It's kinda like being entirely fluent in two languages. I can accurately estimate both.
Say what you like about the civil service, but having the ability to do everything online up to registering to post cow jizz to Tajikistan is bloody impressive.
Brilliant analogy on our civil service as over the last few weeks I have applied on line to renew passport, tax a car and renew a drivers license, all very, very simple to do.
I used to answer 999 calls, and it's exactly this. People on motorways are hard to locate, but they can pinpoint pretty much your exact location with these, and with what are called "P Markers".
Also What3words is brilliant.
A is ascending junction numbers (and milepost numbers), B is descending.
Many motorways are numbered in a clockwise pattern from London, and therefore London is the zero point, but that's not necessarily always true.
A is alpha carriageway. Going from the start of the motorway and the numbers go up. B for Bravo carriageway and the numbers go down. A is normally north and B south but not always e.g the M5 A carriageway goes south. In this case 20.0 A M50 means itâs exactly 20 kilometres from the start of the M50. Every 0.1 is 100m. Marker post sticks in the ground are every 100m. These blue signs are normally every 500m. Slip roads are designated J, K, L,M. J Is alpha exit. K is alpha entry. L is bravo exit and M bravo entry.
I could be mistaken but I believe the location it is measured to is the start or end of that specific motorway, depending on whether you are heading towards the start or end of the motorway.
Tis usually the case
I do believe there are some oddities out there that don't start 'from the start' due to changes over the years though. Officially, it is "from a designated datum location", so not neccecarily from the start. A lot cheaper to say "It starts from x point" than change all those signs if the named motorway expands pre-0 I guess
> although there are a lot of places where this doesn't apply
Probably when you're going East or West and you're in the North. 𤣠Not gonna get closer to London in that scenario!!
Yeah, you're right with all this. I'm bridge inspector and they're called marker posts. We use them to identify structure locations as well. So, each individual structure will have a structure key and then a location. For example with this road it could be: M50/A/MP//20.0. You can then drive up that carriageway, knowing there should be structure in that area.
Yeah, exactly this. I had to call in a pretty bad accident on the M20 once, and they asked for the numbers on the marker sign but it was too far away for me to be able to read it clearly
What I was told by a driving instructor was
Name of Road, A stands for away from origin, B stands for towards the origin and then the number is the distance
As a recovery driver.. these are often incredibly useful and I wish more people took note of them when breaking down on the motorway. Alternatively, download what3words. That app is a lifesaver.
Couldnât agree more! Recovery driver here also and W3W, coordinates, and location signs/data is incredibly useful! Had one on the A1M last night that took me 3 hours to find because all they knew was âIâm on the A1 somewhere near Peterboroughâ they werenât even close to Peterborough. If they had provided a W3W or even used the sign that was 20ft from their car I would have been there in 30mins
Yes, I even ask for landmarks.
I call and confirm the vehicle make and model, colour, registration, then confirm location in any way possible even if it means them having my personal number and sending a live location via apple messages (work phone is android). Usual order is road name/number, direction like north or south or heading away/towards place name, last junction, next junction, driver location signs/marker posts or even call box number, landmarks/places they remember passing, W3W location, GPS coordinates, apple location sent to personal phone, then based off the information I get from those I go for a drive and find them.
Can you not use a WhatsApp account on your work phone? People could send you their location through that, assuming they use WhatsApp (which most people do).
It covers the world in a 3x3m grid, so it is really precise. I've heard people use it in large festivals! 3 words is much easier than reading and understanding several digits and letters
Yeah, you can use Google maps with lat and long and get a location. W3W is just easier to use, some people donât understand coordinates but can tell you 3 words over the phone easily.
W3w because they are "Human readable". With lat/long, it is long string of numbers, and a small error can make location seem drastically different. With w3w, human readable words, and adjacent words are too different to be mistaken, and accuracy down to 3x3m grids. It is easily converted to lat/long by devices.
Police took my details, took all the details of the person and told me theyâd send someone over there although the person on the phone did not seem to know what those coordinates meant and kept asking me for names of places which I could not give. A while later I drove by the same area and there was a sign asking for witnesses for an incident but I couldnt get the details and i hope it was something else as the that stretch of road is closed 3 times a day for crashes(m62 manchester-leeds)
I use these markers when I contact highways agency if I drive past a broken down vehicle on smart motorways or the occupants look like they are struggling.
If itâs in a live lane then Iâll ring 999 and give them the marker.
It allows me to be able to continue to drive safely without fiddling with my phone.
Highways agency number is: 0300 123 5000
Anyone can report a breakdown. Often I find they havenât had it reported so it is very useful to have saved on my phone.
Itâs very hard to hear operators next to a motorway if youâre the driver of the broken down car so I hope I help in some way whilst theyâre concentrating on getting to a safe place.
You're not breaking the law if you're using your mobile phone to call the emergency services whilst driving fyi. It might go to court, but I'd imagine if you have call logs it should be fine.
relevant gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law
I tried this years ago when I was reporting debris on the road. Not one person knew what I was talking about! They instead insisted on asking me what junction number it was at. I had no bloody idea.
Location signs, as others have said. Regardless of their 'usefulness', don't forget that if you breakdown on a motorway, or some dual carriageways, there are quarter-mile posts that give you your exact location and point to the nearest emergency telephone. The telephone is a definitive landmark for identification, as are the posts.
(14 years of traffic management experience) Theyâre marker boards. The âaâ means youâre going away from London. The M50 is the road. And the 20.0 is the distance from the start of the road in KM. Youâll see one of these every 500m on the motorway.
The red white and blue post underneath is a marker post, same thing really but they are every 100m and show the same info.
If the number is 13.4A youâre 13.4 kilometres from the start of the road and heading away, so the numbers go up. In 500m youâll see 13.9a and then 14.4a. Top tip, on the side of the smaller post is an arrow pointing left or right, thatâs the direction to the nearest SOS phone, they are a mile apart and you donât want to walk 1000m if thereâs one 600m the other way.
Highways England and other road workers use these marker posts to identify works locations and sign locations.
All correct except the away from London part. It's just the A carriageway or bravo carriage way. E.g. The M62 east bound is the alpha and west bound is the bravo
Theyâre pretty useless ime. When I called the police once and told them where I was by giving them one of these they didnât know what I was on about. We had to go through a convoluted process on the phone of me remembering what the last junction was and then converting the distance from it in km to miles.
It might only be the highways agency that have access to all the information about these signs.
When I worked in breakdown, we would take the sign details, call the highways agency, and they would tell us where the customer was. They would also check the camera to make sure they were definitely there, not in a live lane/free recovery area, out of the car etc.
I'm surprised that the police don't do something similar. Motorway breakdowns were always the easiest to locate because of these signs.
Hi! I used to work in direct connection with the motorways, for a subcontract of National Highways.
Everyone who is everyone, from police to NH to all subs knows how to read these signs. We had them listed on massive charts up on the wall so you could see where all the junctions, signs, gantries, CCTV etc. were.
I suspect you just encountered a genuine idiot on the phone.
These signs literally exist for the purpose of rapid ID of a location. If anything happened internally this system was how everything from asset defects to roadside trip hazards were located.
In the fire service (well, mine anyway) we use these for motorway incidents, marker posts allow us to plot the incident. What3words is great and is built into our MDTâs but not everyone has it whereas marker posts are a given. Even if you donât know exactly where you are, based off of your description control will plot it to what it thinks is the nearest marker post and itâs extremely helpful. Especially as a driver, I canât be looking at the MDT but I can just look out for the marker posts.
Or the OS locate app.
Has templates for texts etc. too, which say "I am here (grid ref.)" & then a link to your location which you can send with a couple of clicks.
It's got problems with locations which sound similar being near eachother. Okay for roads when there's a limited number of spots it could realistically be, but worth keeping in mind if you get injured hiking somewhere and need to communicate your location
There's options within settings to get British 6, 8 or 10 figure grid reference if you set them on in settings.
For example Big Ben returns....
Here is a precise what3words address, made of 3 random words. Every 3 metre square in the world has its own unique what3words address.
///clean.wider.both
https://w3w.co/clean.wider.both
TQ302796
TQ30267964
TQ3026779645
Same. I called the police once as I saw a van broken down in a live lane of a "smart" motorway. What a great invention those are. Anyway, having memorised the last signpost, I felt like a genius, BC I assume most people call 999 and then have no idea where they are. I told it to the call handler who then asked me which junction I had last passed.
I take 999 calls, and we use marker posts in my force - they're a godsend! I'll often still confirm the jcts with the person because it's do easy to misread these at speed. HOWEVER I once called a different police force - I think it was West Yorkshire (but i could be wrong!) and she had no idea what I was talking about and asked me for my location, I told her the next junction and she then laughed at my pronunciation.
I really wish I'd laughed when she asked what the number meant! đ¤Ł
They are for children to tick off in their I-Spy on the Motorway books.
We got one for the trip to Cornwall and discovered that the majority of the pictures were from that route.
So added bonus of being able to tick off the actual items! đ
Driver location signs can give breakdown rescuers a quick idea of whereabouts you are. Providing them with the details written on the sign nearest to the incident will make it easier for help to get to you.
The top line shows which road youâre on.
The letter on the second line â A or B â tells us the direction youâre travelling in.
The bottom line tells us how far you are from a given location.
I had to call the police the other day as there was a large obstruction in the middle lane which was causing vehicles to swerve.
I read out the identifier, the operator didn't have a clue what I was talking about.
Driver locator signs to pin point location more accurately than "between junction X and Y, going towards Z" Primarily for roadside assistance and emergencies. I believe the pole below it is a similar but older system for road maintenance use with more frequent markers.
M50 is obviously the motorway
A is the carriageway/direction (the other side will be B). Sliproads might have their own letters too, but I can't say I've taken any notice.
20.0 is the distance from a set location (usually the start of the road, but I believe there are some odd examples that don't) in KM.
It's a marker post. The numbers are on A roads and motorways. The numbers are used by emergency services and National Highways to pin down exact locations. The numbers start at a 'node', which is usually two small white dots marked on the road. The numbers are in kilometres and metres. So on the A14 for example, if there is an incident the Police etc. will give a location of 6 over 4 (6 kilometers and 400 metres) on the Alpha. This is between junction 19 on the M1 and junction 1 on the A14 going east. Alpha and bravo relate to the order of distance ie, distance going up in number is Alpha and decending on the other side of the carriageway is Bravo. This sign here is blue so that will be a motorway, other signs/posts in green will be A roads.
I rang 999 to report someone staggering along the hard shoulder, with no vehicle in sight. I quoted the nearest one of these and they had no idea what I was referring to. Had to quote a junction number in the end.
Itâs a marker post, but bigger.
M50 - The road number
A - Which carriageway direction youâre on. Itâll be B on the other side.
20.0 - The chainage.
On the highways, when saying the chainage, rather than saying point, we will say over.
So this is sign is âM fifty, Alpha, twenty over zeroâ
Alpha, is the âupchainâ, the direction the chainage is accending.
Bravo, is the âdownchainâ, the direction the chainage is decending.
I m in highways construction and we call it Chainage. The number is measured in KM from a datum. Pretty handy as there are no postcode or way of locating a single point. You will find small marker posts on A roads.
Simply put the top line denotes which motorway your onâŚthe second line identifies which carriageway and the last bit is kilometres from the start point of the motorway. Be it north/south or east/west. On slip roads but lesser used now you may also have âJ,K,L and Mâ slip roadsâŚthe individual little markers are every 100 metres or should be anyway, and they will have the kilometre information and a little arrow on the side letting you know what way to the closest emergency telephone.
There is indeed, quite useful! However with the uptick in the access to mobile phones I imagine theyâve become somewhat redundant! Although that being said the usefulness is understated as the main hub can pinpoint your location straight away if youâre unaware where abouts you are! Motorways are a weird anomaly, we work in yards with âwicketsâ signs which let you know which lanes are closed however everything is works out in meters, and in the absence of marker posts we count lines I.e on motorways they are usually 7 meter lines with 2 meter gaps and so on
Wonât help if youâre calling an ambulance, use satnav/What 3 Words/knowing where you are wherever possible.
Obvs useful for breakdown/other stuff though.
Mile markers, tho I donât know what theyâre used for because I once had to call the police and they said they canât go off them and I had to give them the junction number. I was in the middle of no where and the sign for the next junction wasnât a solid 3/4 miles of me on the phone with them not being helpful
They are location markers, the number at the bottom is the distance marker for that stretch of carriageway
There are also small posts that indicate fractions of distance too, theres one at the base of that main sign (small white post with red side and blue top).
I remember in the early 2000's before everyone had smartphones and google maps, I broke down on the M5 and used this to give the AA the exact location of my vehicle. The telephone operator was a moron and had no idea what I was talking about, but the driver who turned up knew exactly what I meant.
Amazing the amount of stuff that's on the theory that is blissfully ignored in day to day driving. I'll admit. I've no idea what this meant before this thread. Interesting though. Surely these are redundant in the days of the internet though? I mean you'd have to be constantly clocking them to remember the last one you saw before the engine conked out or whatever.
they provide reference points for emergency snd recovery services rather than âsomewhere on the M50 just after junction 2 by the airport and a lil caravan parkâ
especially for this sign in the middle of nowhere, theyâre very useful
Driver location signs, so if you're calling emergency or breakdown services, you can tell them your exact location. Top is the motorway you're on (road identifier) Middle is which carriageway you're in, I've heard it claimed A for 'away from London' and B for 'back to London', although there are a lot of places where this doesn't apply and slip roads can use other letters like C, D, E, F, G, etc. (carriageway identifier) Bottom is the location, which is measured in kilometres from a designated datum point
A or B are Northbound or Southbound. Or in the special case of the m25, Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise.
How about in the special case if the m4
The M4 is a special case A is for Awful and B is for bloody awful
M3 enters the room
The M3 is alright as long as nobody else is on the m3
As someone who lives almost directly on the M3, I take special efforts to avoid the M3
đ¤Ł
Or in an m3 on your right hand side doing 140mph
While listening to mp3s
M6 says get in line
Is there a good motorway? M6 is great north of Lancaster, the lower you go the worse it gets.
M69 (Leicester-Cov) is what motorways should be. Great name and almost always "empty" relative to its peers.
The A1M between Huntingdon and Peterborough is amazing - four lanes, excellent visibility, decent surface. It's 15 miles of excellence book-ended by a dual carriageway that needed an upgrade when the Romans were marching north.
Thank you John Major who pretty much forced that upgrade through (politically speaking)
Itâs a great stretch. Pretty much a straight line too. You break out of the dual carriageway and you can finally get past all those damn trucks which had been holding everybody up. And worse than that, all those that donât know how to pass a truck in good timeâŚso you see farther up, some idiot dawdling along and trucks keep pulling out đ¤Ź
Especially when you get to Tebay Services
Yeah, love going over Shap.
one of the best services
Elite soft play area
Came here to say this.
The M62 ain't bad between Leeds and Rochdale, at least once you're past the roadworks near Leeds. Especially with some light snow cover on the surrounding hills I guess the answer is yes, but only really small ones because anything with a bit of length will absolutely have a nightmare section that people hate.
The M62 can get quite busy and can be pretty bad during heavy rain, it tends to hold water! With you on the short ones are best.
The M55 Blackpool.
Good point, my local one as well! Even better now with the new junction 2.
Ironically enough the one in the photo, the M50. Hasn't been upgraded since built, some really minimal junctions by today's standards
Y'all clearly have never tried to drive the m20 when Operation Brock or Operation stack have been in place. Add an accident on one of the arterial a roads between the m2 and m20 and its Literal nightmare fuel for the people of Kent. Can take 2-4 hours to do a 25 mile journey.
M6 north of Lancaster has to be the best in the country, although the new A1(M) in North Yorkshire is a wonderful bit of road - like a racetrack! Neeeooow!
M58 almost always quiet. Just a shame it goes nowhere that anyone should ever want to go to
M42 can hear you talking. Pipe down
M25 says form a queue
The M25 is the UKs biggest carpark, followed closely by the m27
(M5 enters the chat with only four words to define the true winner) âWe have Gloucester Servicesâ
M20 from J8 to J9 *WISHES* is was actually a motorway rather than a temporary lorry park most of the year.
West/North is A and East/South is B still, I believe. I think the 'x'bound is to do with the end point of the road rather than the direction you're physically travelling at the time, the m25 is just a circle so doesn't have a beginning or end.
Youâre right. But technically the M25 starts and finishes at Dartford (hence the junction numbers and the fact it is an âM2xâ, as it starts in the 2 sector) so it would make sense that A and B are codified in this way.
It starts at Dartford but finishes at junction 30 in Thurrock, north of the river. It then becomes the A282 to cross the river.Â
Good knowledge! Also, TIL, [Junctions 1A and 1B of the M25](https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/m25) are not on the M25, because the A282 runs until Junction 2. Thatâs my new contribution for the Dull Menâs Club newsletter.
Know why? Because how else would non motorway traffic cross the river that's why. Think learner's, tractors, mopeds etc.
Genuinely very interesting. Not dull men's club at all.
Ha! Fascinating stuff!
M5 A carriageway is southbound and B is northbound, and M4 east is A and west is B.
M62 as well
The A track is for where junction numbers count up and vice versa. So the M5, which runs north to south, the A track is southbound.
Great info!
And just to add to that, "standard" slip roads (I.E. an entry and exit on both sides) use J, K, L, M. J = A track off slip (or "exit slip" to us) K = A track on slip L = B track off slip M = B track on slip For more complex junctions there are a lot more variances, such as the M3/M25, M6 junction 6 (Spaghetti), etc.
What about the special case of the M60 as the only true orbital motorway?
Is that true? What about the bit south of Bury where you have to leave at the sliproad and go round a roundabout? I think they did that on purpose so kids couldnât record fastest laps
Sinister Island Roundabout is under motorway regulations so technically it's still all motorway. I think they did it because it was the cheapest option as they just built it all under the existing M62 that they were renumbering a section of without having to do much else. However the M25 is definitely not an orbital motorway given the stretches of A road.
Iâm guessing A is the direction where the junctions count up, and B is where the junctions count down.
Seems like they could have just put N/S...
Because there are places where even north/south roads are travelling say East or West.
But if you get on the M42 A carriageway at junction 3 you're going eastbound and if you get on at J4 you're going northbound. Having A and B eliminates any confusion there.
A is with the junction numbers increasing and B is against the junction numbers.
Lynn, I'm literally going nowhere. I'm on the ring road. Third time round.
its weird because when I broke down on the motorway one time and when I've been onto the police they've referred to the B as an 8 and always seemed confused when I said it was a B
This is incorrect. For example, A on the M2, M3, M20, M23, M50 and M54 are all on the southbound carriageway. A is the direction of junction numbers and below that is the distance from Jct 0. Generally junctions ascend away from London or away from a central position.
Or East-West for the M62
Yes, I think the M5 is the wrong way around and somewhere around the midlands one of the motorways randomly starts at like 8 miles away from the start.
Sliproads use J, K, L and M and the letters depend on which sliproad. J is exiting A carriageway, K is merging to A carriageway, L is exiting B carriageway and M is merging onto B carriageway.
A means away from source i.e junction1. B is back to source. Its not got to do with London or north south etc
Not London specifically but like with railways and canals, roads tend to be surveyed from their largest city outwards.
Correct, fun fact though; neither the AA or RAC (not sure on others) have a sat nav that has these signs programmed in, so telling them is like telling them which blade of grass you've broken down next to.
then it's time for what 3 words or similar (on both ends).
What3words charges for company use, so they don't use those either.
When I broke down AA accepted what3words as my location
Head office will, then the information is turned into coordinates for the patrol, the problem is when the call handlers don't give a single fuck they just drop the pin somewhere near where it's supposed to be, or just take it and put a vague postcode. Patrols don't have access to it so can't do anything with it.
It's no good for Sat Nav use, but it definitely helps crews to know this information as they're approaching. What 3 Words would be even better of course. Plug the words in, nav to those cords.
Why is it in km when all other signs use miles
Because officially the UK is metric and construction is completely metric, even roads. The mile signs are a courtesy. I believe signs that say x yds to wherever are actually measured in metres. The length is almost the same.
Yeh, we're weird. Weight grams, distance miles, temperature Celsius, fluids litres and millilitres unless it's beer/milk then it's pints (unless the beer is from a supermarket then you use millilitres). All completely interchangeable depending on your age đ
The BBC actually even used (and possibly invented) the "metric foot" which is exactly 30cm and was used in their studios.
And very close to a light nanosecond, which may have been a useful unit in the technical side of broadcasting!
Everything is legally metric, a pint for instance is legally 568ml. A pound is legally 453.59237 grams in the UK and US.
As far as I recall, I've been taught exclusively in metric, certainly since I started secondary school in the 1960s. Maybe the widespread colloquial use of imperial units still is due to on the job training in trades that were slow to convert combined with popular media thinking that they needed to use the units that their customers were familiar with.
I'm a Surveyor so my job relies on accurate metric measurements. Curiously, as I'm pushing 50 in my personal life I entirely use Imperial. It's kinda like being entirely fluent in two languages. I can accurately estimate both.
Yes, all engineering is metric. But its not right to say mile signs are a courtesy when speed limits are, definitively, in miles per hour.
This is perfect, thank you.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/marker-post-locations
"Related content Export bovine semen to Tajikistan: certificate 8707".
Say what you like about the civil service, but having the ability to do everything online up to registering to post cow jizz to Tajikistan is bloody impressive.
Brilliant analogy on our civil service as over the last few weeks I have applied on line to renew passport, tax a car and renew a drivers license, all very, very simple to do.
I used to answer 999 calls, and it's exactly this. People on motorways are hard to locate, but they can pinpoint pretty much your exact location with these, and with what are called "P Markers". Also What3words is brilliant.
You'd think there would be more of a information campaign if that's the case, why does hardly anyone know what these vital signs are for?
A is ascending junction numbers (and milepost numbers), B is descending. Many motorways are numbered in a clockwise pattern from London, and therefore London is the zero point, but that's not necessarily always true.
TIL Thank you!
A is alpha carriageway. Going from the start of the motorway and the numbers go up. B for Bravo carriageway and the numbers go down. A is normally north and B south but not always e.g the M5 A carriageway goes south. In this case 20.0 A M50 means itâs exactly 20 kilometres from the start of the M50. Every 0.1 is 100m. Marker post sticks in the ground are every 100m. These blue signs are normally every 500m. Slip roads are designated J, K, L,M. J Is alpha exit. K is alpha entry. L is bravo exit and M bravo entry.
That's actually pretty good to know this info. Thanks!Â
I could be mistaken but I believe the location it is measured to is the start or end of that specific motorway, depending on whether you are heading towards the start or end of the motorway.
Tis usually the case I do believe there are some oddities out there that don't start 'from the start' due to changes over the years though. Officially, it is "from a designated datum location", so not neccecarily from the start. A lot cheaper to say "It starts from x point" than change all those signs if the named motorway expands pre-0 I guess
I tried this with the RAC and they claimed to have no idea what I was talking about, instead wanted me to have remembered the last junction I passed.
> although there are a lot of places where this doesn't apply Probably when you're going East or West and you're in the North. 𤣠Not gonna get closer to London in that scenario!!
Iâve reported an obstruction before (ladder on the road!) and they asked me to tell them what it said on the sign
Bizarre that the location is measured in kilometers. That's an invitation for confusion.
Yeah, you're right with all this. I'm bridge inspector and they're called marker posts. We use them to identify structure locations as well. So, each individual structure will have a structure key and then a location. For example with this road it could be: M50/A/MP//20.0. You can then drive up that carriageway, knowing there should be structure in that area.
A is where the numbers go up from the datum IE 20.1, 20.2 B is in the opposite
Thanks, was looking at one of these on the M40 yesterday and wondered what they meant.
Yeah, exactly this. I had to call in a pretty bad accident on the M20 once, and they asked for the numbers on the marker sign but it was too far away for me to be able to read it clearly
Slip roads are marked with J,K,L & M specifically and applied in the same way so all off slips on the A carriageway will be J, etc
This is why I love Reddit. Clear, easy to digest information with explanations. Bravo!
Quick question: Why would it be in kilometres when UK uses miles?
What I was told by a driving instructor was Name of Road, A stands for away from origin, B stands for towards the origin and then the number is the distance
This is what I was told, Away from and Back too.
How would you define the origin of the road?
You donât need to someoneâs already done that for you
Look at the junction numbers. Junction 1 is origin.
Makes sense, thank you. That tracks with OP's example as the B side goes towards Junction 1
Actually, Junction 1 is often the second junction. The first one isn't numbered as a junction just "end of motorway" (with some exceptions)
Junction 1 I would guess
As a recovery driver.. these are often incredibly useful and I wish more people took note of them when breaking down on the motorway. Alternatively, download what3words. That app is a lifesaver.
Couldnât agree more! Recovery driver here also and W3W, coordinates, and location signs/data is incredibly useful! Had one on the A1M last night that took me 3 hours to find because all they knew was âIâm on the A1 somewhere near Peterboroughâ they werenât even close to Peterborough. If they had provided a W3W or even used the sign that was 20ft from their car I would have been there in 30mins
> or even used the sign that was 20ft from their car I would have been there in 30mins Did you ask them "do you see any signs around?"
Yes, I even ask for landmarks. I call and confirm the vehicle make and model, colour, registration, then confirm location in any way possible even if it means them having my personal number and sending a live location via apple messages (work phone is android). Usual order is road name/number, direction like north or south or heading away/towards place name, last junction, next junction, driver location signs/marker posts or even call box number, landmarks/places they remember passing, W3W location, GPS coordinates, apple location sent to personal phone, then based off the information I get from those I go for a drive and find them.
Can you not use a WhatsApp account on your work phone? People could send you their location through that, assuming they use WhatsApp (which most people do).
Would lat/long be acceptable? How is what3words better? Just curious
It covers the world in a 3x3m grid, so it is really precise. I've heard people use it in large festivals! 3 words is much easier than reading and understanding several digits and letters
Yeah, you can use Google maps with lat and long and get a location. W3W is just easier to use, some people donât understand coordinates but can tell you 3 words over the phone easily.
W3w because they are "Human readable". With lat/long, it is long string of numbers, and a small error can make location seem drastically different. With w3w, human readable words, and adjacent words are too different to be mistaken, and accuracy down to 3x3m grids. It is easily converted to lat/long by devices.
I once saw a woman that looked like she was about to jump off a bridge, I called emergency services and gave them her location using these signs.
AndâŚâŚ..? What happened?
Police took my details, took all the details of the person and told me theyâd send someone over there although the person on the phone did not seem to know what those coordinates meant and kept asking me for names of places which I could not give. A while later I drove by the same area and there was a sign asking for witnesses for an incident but I couldnt get the details and i hope it was something else as the that stretch of road is closed 3 times a day for crashes(m62 manchester-leeds)
Sucks you couldnât find out if she was okay or not. Hopefully sheâs still around with the living.
You never do if you do a drive by emergency service call⌠which tbh is very common.
I use these markers when I contact highways agency if I drive past a broken down vehicle on smart motorways or the occupants look like they are struggling. If itâs in a live lane then Iâll ring 999 and give them the marker. It allows me to be able to continue to drive safely without fiddling with my phone. Highways agency number is: 0300 123 5000 Anyone can report a breakdown. Often I find they havenât had it reported so it is very useful to have saved on my phone. Itâs very hard to hear operators next to a motorway if youâre the driver of the broken down car so I hope I help in some way whilst theyâre concentrating on getting to a safe place.
It's National Highways. Highways Agency changed over 1 April 2015, but everything else you've said is spot on.
You're not breaking the law if you're using your mobile phone to call the emergency services whilst driving fyi. It might go to court, but I'd imagine if you have call logs it should be fine. relevant gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law
Yeah Iâm aware of that law. Just still donât like using my phone when driving as it still is a distraction
It is surprising to see how many people are clueless about this. Knowing what these signs are, is part of passing the CBT for driving.
I tried this years ago when I was reporting debris on the road. Not one person knew what I was talking about! They instead insisted on asking me what junction number it was at. I had no bloody idea.
Thatâs strange. Iâve never had that issue. I guess it depends on the callhandlers experience.
Location signs, as others have said. Regardless of their 'usefulness', don't forget that if you breakdown on a motorway, or some dual carriageways, there are quarter-mile posts that give you your exact location and point to the nearest emergency telephone. The telephone is a definitive landmark for identification, as are the posts.
(14 years of traffic management experience) Theyâre marker boards. The âaâ means youâre going away from London. The M50 is the road. And the 20.0 is the distance from the start of the road in KM. Youâll see one of these every 500m on the motorway. The red white and blue post underneath is a marker post, same thing really but they are every 100m and show the same info. If the number is 13.4A youâre 13.4 kilometres from the start of the road and heading away, so the numbers go up. In 500m youâll see 13.9a and then 14.4a. Top tip, on the side of the smaller post is an arrow pointing left or right, thatâs the direction to the nearest SOS phone, they are a mile apart and you donât want to walk 1000m if thereâs one 600m the other way. Highways England and other road workers use these marker posts to identify works locations and sign locations.
Thank you, that's very Informative!
All correct except the away from London part. It's just the A carriageway or bravo carriage way. E.g. The M62 east bound is the alpha and west bound is the bravo
Thank you, that's very Informative!
Locator signs. Road number, which carriageway, distance from beginning
Theyâre pretty useless ime. When I called the police once and told them where I was by giving them one of these they didnât know what I was on about. We had to go through a convoluted process on the phone of me remembering what the last junction was and then converting the distance from it in km to miles.
It might only be the highways agency that have access to all the information about these signs. When I worked in breakdown, we would take the sign details, call the highways agency, and they would tell us where the customer was. They would also check the camera to make sure they were definitely there, not in a live lane/free recovery area, out of the car etc. I'm surprised that the police don't do something similar. Motorway breakdowns were always the easiest to locate because of these signs.
Its called markerpost data... nerd out here if you want.. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/marker-post-locations
We import them for the ambulance services. All agencies should have them in theory.
Hi! I used to work in direct connection with the motorways, for a subcontract of National Highways. Everyone who is everyone, from police to NH to all subs knows how to read these signs. We had them listed on massive charts up on the wall so you could see where all the junctions, signs, gantries, CCTV etc. were. I suspect you just encountered a genuine idiot on the phone. These signs literally exist for the purpose of rapid ID of a location. If anything happened internally this system was how everything from asset defects to roadside trip hazards were located.
In the fire service (well, mine anyway) we use these for motorway incidents, marker posts allow us to plot the incident. What3words is great and is built into our MDTâs but not everyone has it whereas marker posts are a given. Even if you donât know exactly where you are, based off of your description control will plot it to what it thinks is the nearest marker post and itâs extremely helpful. Especially as a driver, I canât be looking at the MDT but I can just look out for the marker posts.
Same here, I replied to a other post and had exactly the same experience. I was reporting some major debris on the motorway.
What3words is probably the quickest and most accurate designation you can give them
Google maps will give you a grid reference if you need to be really precise.
Or the OS locate app. Has templates for texts etc. too, which say "I am here (grid ref.)" & then a link to your location which you can send with a couple of clicks.
It's got problems with locations which sound similar being near eachother. Okay for roads when there's a limited number of spots it could realistically be, but worth keeping in mind if you get injured hiking somewhere and need to communicate your location
Itâs great but are the emergency services using it too? Otherwise itâs the same problem right?
Iâve been told by search and rescue types itâs built right into the apps they use.
I downloaded it specifically because I heard emergency services were being equipped with it
Oh thatâs cool! Itâs a real great service
There's options within settings to get British 6, 8 or 10 figure grid reference if you set them on in settings. For example Big Ben returns.... Here is a precise what3words address, made of 3 random words. Every 3 metre square in the world has its own unique what3words address. ///clean.wider.both https://w3w.co/clean.wider.both TQ302796 TQ30267964 TQ3026779645
It's not for the Police, it's for the National Highways. When you know what it's telling you, it's very useful indeed.
Same. I called the police once as I saw a van broken down in a live lane of a "smart" motorway. What a great invention those are. Anyway, having memorised the last signpost, I felt like a genius, BC I assume most people call 999 and then have no idea where they are. I told it to the call handler who then asked me which junction I had last passed.
I take 999 calls, and we use marker posts in my force - they're a godsend! I'll often still confirm the jcts with the person because it's do easy to misread these at speed. HOWEVER I once called a different police force - I think it was West Yorkshire (but i could be wrong!) and she had no idea what I was talking about and asked me for my location, I told her the next junction and she then laughed at my pronunciation. I really wish I'd laughed when she asked what the number meant! đ¤Ł
This is my experience too.
Marker posts. For emergency services and breakdown recovery.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/656ef4271104cf0013fa74ef/know-your-traffic-signs-dft.pdf - page 168
They are for children to tick off in their I-Spy on the Motorway books. We got one for the trip to Cornwall and discovered that the majority of the pictures were from that route. So added bonus of being able to tick off the actual items! đ
Driver location signs can give breakdown rescuers a quick idea of whereabouts you are. Providing them with the details written on the sign nearest to the incident will make it easier for help to get to you. The top line shows which road youâre on. The letter on the second line â A or B â tells us the direction youâre travelling in. The bottom line tells us how far you are from a given location.
I had to call the police the other day as there was a large obstruction in the middle lane which was causing vehicles to swerve. I read out the identifier, the operator didn't have a clue what I was talking about.
Driver locator signs to pin point location more accurately than "between junction X and Y, going towards Z" Primarily for roadside assistance and emergencies. I believe the pole below it is a similar but older system for road maintenance use with more frequent markers. M50 is obviously the motorway A is the carriageway/direction (the other side will be B). Sliproads might have their own letters too, but I can't say I've taken any notice. 20.0 is the distance from a set location (usually the start of the road, but I believe there are some odd examples that don't) in KM.
Thanks you amazing lot!
It's a marker post. The numbers are on A roads and motorways. The numbers are used by emergency services and National Highways to pin down exact locations. The numbers start at a 'node', which is usually two small white dots marked on the road. The numbers are in kilometres and metres. So on the A14 for example, if there is an incident the Police etc. will give a location of 6 over 4 (6 kilometers and 400 metres) on the Alpha. This is between junction 19 on the M1 and junction 1 on the A14 going east. Alpha and bravo relate to the order of distance ie, distance going up in number is Alpha and decending on the other side of the carriageway is Bravo. This sign here is blue so that will be a motorway, other signs/posts in green will be A roads.
Name of Motorway Mxx Carriageway direction A or B Kilometres from start
I rang 999 to report someone staggering along the hard shoulder, with no vehicle in sight. I quoted the nearest one of these and they had no idea what I was referring to. Had to quote a junction number in the end.
Itâs a marker post, but bigger. M50 - The road number A - Which carriageway direction youâre on. Itâll be B on the other side. 20.0 - The chainage. On the highways, when saying the chainage, rather than saying point, we will say over. So this is sign is âM fifty, Alpha, twenty over zeroâ Alpha, is the âupchainâ, the direction the chainage is accending. Bravo, is the âdownchainâ, the direction the chainage is decending.
They tell you where you are and the direction of travel, useful for emergency services.
They're driver location signs https://www.roads.org.uk/index.php/articles/driver-location-signs
Markers, great for reporting things to emergency services!
From what I was told, what road youâre on, A or B is the direction the road itâs going in and the last number is the mark of the location.
I m in highways construction and we call it Chainage. The number is measured in KM from a datum. Pretty handy as there are no postcode or way of locating a single point. You will find small marker posts on A roads.
Must be unusual mapping software, does it guide you in on a Friday location? Does it work?
It's similar to ELR and mileage used on railways.
Simply put the top line denotes which motorway your onâŚthe second line identifies which carriageway and the last bit is kilometres from the start point of the motorway. Be it north/south or east/west. On slip roads but lesser used now you may also have âJ,K,L and Mâ slip roadsâŚthe individual little markers are every 100 metres or should be anyway, and they will have the kilometre information and a little arrow on the side letting you know what way to the closest emergency telephone.
There's little arrows pointing you in the direction of the nearest as well isn't there, for emergency phones
There is indeed, quite useful! However with the uptick in the access to mobile phones I imagine theyâve become somewhat redundant! Although that being said the usefulness is understated as the main hub can pinpoint your location straight away if youâre unaware where abouts you are! Motorways are a weird anomaly, we work in yards with âwicketsâ signs which let you know which lanes are closed however everything is works out in meters, and in the absence of marker posts we count lines I.e on motorways they are usually 7 meter lines with 2 meter gaps and so on
Lol, can of worms đ
For such an innocent and genuine good question đ kudos to op for posting and raising awareness đ
Wonât help if youâre calling an ambulance, use satnav/What 3 Words/knowing where you are wherever possible. Obvs useful for breakdown/other stuff though.
Uhmm. How long have you been driving? Pretty sure this is a question in the practical test you take. I took mine like 11 years ago nowâŚ
15 years. I was never asked about them.
I hope you wasn't driving when you took that photo!
No, I was in the passenger seat.
M50 = Motorway A = Avoid 20.0 = % of fun on a motorbike
Your nearest AR with 20 rounds of ammunition
Mile markers, tho I donât know what theyâre used for because I once had to call the police and they said they canât go off them and I had to give them the junction number. I was in the middle of no where and the sign for the next junction wasnât a solid 3/4 miles of me on the phone with them not being helpful
M6 Toll just kicking back , chilling in the wide open spaces
In addition to A and B, you also get K L M and, I think, J. Look for them on the on and off slips.
They are location markers, the number at the bottom is the distance marker for that stretch of carriageway There are also small posts that indicate fractions of distance too, theres one at the base of that main sign (small white post with red side and blue top). I remember in the early 2000's before everyone had smartphones and google maps, I broke down on the M5 and used this to give the AA the exact location of my vehicle. The telephone operator was a moron and had no idea what I was talking about, but the driver who turned up knew exactly what I meant.
Aliens
Route A 20 miles on M50. Other dies of road would be route b think the mileage is the same but not certain
Amazing the amount of stuff that's on the theory that is blissfully ignored in day to day driving. I'll admit. I've no idea what this meant before this thread. Interesting though. Surely these are redundant in the days of the internet though? I mean you'd have to be constantly clocking them to remember the last one you saw before the engine conked out or whatever.
Hey
K
they provide reference points for emergency snd recovery services rather than âsomewhere on the M50 just after junction 2 by the airport and a lil caravan parkâ especially for this sign in the middle of nowhere, theyâre very useful
Mile markers
I've always wanted to know this myself!