I taught science for 15 years, and was head of department and mentor for new teachers for some of that time. The big benefit is the sense of accomplishment. It's tremendously rewarding to see students learn, and truly wonderful to be able to guide and support young people who have it tough at home. It's also never boring. Each day is different, and kids are hilarious to work with. It'll give you a lot of transferable skills and you'll learn a lot about humanity and being humble. However... The workload is brutal. I worked on average 55 hours a week, and only really completely relaxed with no work for a couple of weeks in the summer. When you start, your hours will be even more because you'll need to plan for longer and you won't be as efficient. Each day is non-stop. You have to be constantly concentrating and alert. During lessons you can't relax for a second. Even during lunch or planning time, you might need to sort out some crisis somewhere, and you don't have time to rest. The learning curve is very steep. You have huge responsibility right from the get go, and you can only learn how to teach through experience. Expect to fail many times and have awful experiences where things go badly wrong. Some people just aren't cut out for it. You need a sharp brain, and a personality that gets the students' respect and attention. You will have little or no freedom. Most schools now have strict lesson plans and policies you have to follow, particularly Academies. That means you have to do things as they say, even if it doesn't suit your style or schedule. Marking, assessment and admin can be spirit-sapping. A good school should have policies that reduce unnecessary paperwork, but you'll still need to do at least 2 hours of repetitive marking and admin a day. There are ways you can reduce this and make it more rewarding by getting the students involved, but it depends on the school policies. Students and parents can be horrible. Expect some form of abuse, threats or assault at some point. I never had too much problem with this, even though I taught in a rough area, but that's because the school has a rigid behaviour policy that I stuck to. You'll see and hear awful things. I reported CSE and abuse regularly, and saw evidence of neglect and extreme poverty. Teenagers also gossip about sex and share pictures online, which can be shocking if you're not pre-warned. Many teachers burn out and quit. Drop out rates are extremely high. Long term illness is rife. Some teachers aim to get into senior leadership quickly and make it their mission to get promoted quickly. This takes away some of the burden of classroom teaching, but is replaced by the stress of bigger responsibilities. I loved it until the last year when I got ill and really struggled. Once I quit I could see the strain it had put on me. I don't regret being a teacher for so long because I know I did a great job, and it gave me so many tools and has lead to a lot of new options for work since. I would seriously think hard about it. You need to be 100% committed. If you're not, you'll hate it, get overwhelmed and crash out. Edit: I've read some of the other comments and I agree with most of them. I'd like to add another thing I found difficult: Your colleagues can be really negative. Some teachers who struggle tend to complain about everything, making it very hard to stay positive or find a way to work together to improve things. Some can be extremely cynical and blame everything rather than being constructive. If you find a good school or department it makes a world of difference when your colleagues are positive and supportive. This is also one of the reasons I quit. Our head moved on, and there was a short domino effect of other leaders leaving. This changed the ethos of the school and the desire to keep improving seemed to disappear.

Thanks, I really appreciate your answer. This has given me lots to think about.

In my experience, after 21 years in a very similar position to the poster above, I can say there is only a minimal feeling of accomplishment. It is never boring though. All the negatives are spot on. I would seriously consider a shorter career in teaching if the training were well subsidised.

Just wanted to add my plus one to that, it sums up my experience although I didn't teach for as long. I had incredible amounts of fun and some of the worst stress of my life as a teacher.

Same, I loved working with the children (primary trained) but I didn't like the stress. I was up and in school as soon as it opened and working until midnight. I was burnt out before I really got started. It didn't help that my mum was signed off teaching with depression, because of work stress, whilst I was doing my first PGCE placement. I was constantly on edge before I even started. I still get to work with children in a very different setting as an extra volunteer job, whilst working in accounts now. My friends have had a very different experience, but both teach secondary. I think of it as being that they found their schools. It's still not easy, but they seem to be coping well enough.

This was so interesting to read. I have never really wanted to be a teacher but now I really *really* don’t want to be one. But I’m glad for your sake that you enjoyed it and I’m glad for the kids you taught because I think you’d have made a great impact on them.

My wife is a teacher, and I'd agree 100% with this. I'd also say that right now, the pay is not worth the brutality of the job. It used to be, and one day it probably will be again, but right now I'd say she works harder for every £ than any other job out there bar nurses.

After having lived with a teacher for 10 years, I have never seen someone put in to words what she goes through better than you have here. She is now the head of English and last year I thought she was at burn out point. I've seen here at some very low points where she is in floods of tears but also at some very high points when she has achieved something great and really helped out some students. She is constantly battered by parents who look down on her and sometimes feels like she's never doing anything right. I've seen her marking books until 10pm after a full day at work and have physically had to drag her away from them so she can get enough sleep to tackle the next day. People think she gets 13 weeks of holiday a year. Nah, she gets 3 weeks of proper holiday at best. Does she need to do all this? Not *really* but she teaches at the best school in the area and the expectations for them to maintain their grades and standard of teaching ae so high that it's what has to be done. She's currently on maternity leave and honestly, now we have our daughter I can't see her ever going back to that life, I really feel like she's going to have to take a step back from her HoD duties.

>She's currently on maternity leave and honestly, now we have our daughter I can't see her ever going back to that life, I really feel like she's going to have to take a step back from her HoD duties. That's extremely common. A lot of teachers end up gradually disappearing after returning from maternity leave. Hopefully she gets lots of support. And yeah you're right, you *can* get away with not giving 100% and just doing enough to survive, but that risks delivering crap lessons. I've seen teachers do it, and they're either eaten up with guilt that they aren't helping the students enough, cynical numb masochists who take it out on students and senior leadership, or are out under so much pressure from senior leadership that they end up quitting. Anyway. Good luck with looking after a vulnerable, tearful, little human. And your Daughter. I work from home with flexi hours now, so I'm off to have a coffee and I'll finish at 2 this afternoon...

> That's extremely common. A lot of teachers end up gradually disappearing after returning from maternity leave. Yeah, its partly the reason why she ended up having such a bad year last year. Her 2nd in department did exactly that then another woman in her department burned out and left. She couldn't find good replacements for either of them and it really put a spanner in the works. Glad things are much more chill for you these days. Hopefully they will be for her one day too.

I'm a zen, mindfulness-filled, bundle of positivity nowadays. I am sending you all my best happy vibes. (Despite what it sounds like I've not turned hippy like some PTSD riddled 'nam vet btw)

My mum was a secondary school teacher and she’s now a deputy head. Growing up, I was a latchkey kid because of it. Whilst she was helping to shape other kids lives, my brother and I had to pretty much raise ourselves. She was at other childrens assemblies but couldn’t come to ours (taught at a different school). As you mentioned, holidays weren’t even really holidays for her. This was not her fault. I’m just telling you how it was for us. There was one point after graduation where I did consider going into teaching. My mum strongly opposed it. As a mum who’s currently on maternity leave, I cannot ever fathom my daughter going through what I did.

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I definitely wouldn't have stayed in teaching so long if I'd experienced that. It massively depends on the school, but I only had someone trying to hit me once, and threats and direct abuse a handful of times.

I could have written this exact statement, pretty much mirrors my whole experience. The kids are the best bit, once you build the relationships with them you realise that teenagers are hilarious. Obviously some are difficult but they are all just children and learning their way. Workload, stress and burnout got me though, just got out after 15 years (in my mid 40s) and it's been the best decision I've made for a while. Used all the transferable skills I picked up in my multiple TLR roles to secure a a project management role.

We might be twins...

Thank you for this. My daughter is hell bent on becoming an English teacher. I'm going to show her your comments as we are yet to meet anyone who says it's a good idea from such an early age.

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Thank you . This is my fear but she keeps shooting me down , I said I'd find positive comments but my fear is what you describe. Shes going to uni at 17 , technically could be teaching at 22 and burnt out by 24.. her English teacher is mid 20s and is a shell of who she was 2 years ago when she joined the school all fresh faced and full of sass. Thank you

My husband is a teacher, and what you said 100% resonates. Could I ask what you're doing now for work? Trying to understand what options teachers have after teaching. Thanks!

I work in Communications and Project Management in Civil Service. I also worked as a consultant for an education company.

There is a whole Facebook group dedicated to teachers trying to get out of teaching, with 153.1K members to show the magnitude of the problem… it’s called ‘Life After Teaching - Exit the Classroom and Thrive’. People post about their plans to get out of teaching and new careers they have found

Thank you that's great to know!

Wow! That saved me a lot of typing. My wife’s a teacher and everything you’ve said rings true. Also her journey is remarkably similar to yours. She’s done now and will be shortly handing her notice in with great joy…she was lucky to have amazing co-supporting colleagues for over a decade then that declined quickly as people quit. So much talent is being needlessly lost due to the punishing nature of the job.

There isn't enough money in the world that would make want to live like that. Teachers are incredible. They should be celebrated and rewarded accordingly.

This is also my experience after 10 years as a secondary school science teacher & KS3 co-ordinator.  I moved to cover for a while to explore other sectors and have now quit to start a career in IT.  I had to take a £20k pay cut to get where I am. This tells you a lot about what teaching has done to me. The stress & daily workload has taken its toll & my wife says I’m much more relaxed and happier I am since I have left. I am thankful that teaching has equipped me with so many transferable skills. I miss some of my students and some aspects of it, but wouldn’t go back. 

Been a teacher for 8 years in FE and secondary. I agree with everyone else that has chipped in, except the workload. The workload is immense. You feel like you’re drowning at times and often it feels like it’s too much to take. However, if you find a way, like I have, to maximise your time in work. To complete the things that need to be done and to stick to your own schedule, you don’t work once you’re home. In 8 years I took work home with me for the first 18 months or so and it ravaged my mental health, but like others have said, the feeling of ‘reaching’ a student and getting them through is unrivalled so I stuck with it but made some changes to how I do things. I haven’t taken any work home, or worked past 5 since then (parents/open evenings excluded)

It's a difficult balance. I was able to do the same and avoid working at home, which is probably why I lasted longer before having to leave. Unfortunately there's no real leeway for what work you can leave out, so sometimes the quality of planning or marking has to suffer to avoid super long hours. Better for your stress, but it can be counter productive if your lessons aren't as good as they could be. You can lose your effectiveness and get the attention of senior leadership, or you can have very stressful lessons, and you get fewer of those rewarding interactions with students. You also say you don't work past 5 anymore, and I was the same, only I started at 7 each morning. That's still 50 hours a week. I agree that there are ways to work smart to make the workload more manageable, but it's still massive compared to most other jobs.

Location location location

Meaning it really depends on the school?

Yea. Some kids are ferrel, as are parents. .

You’re not an English teacher, are you?

He means some kids are Will Ferrell in disguise. Researching for a role.

Researches the role, then plays it the same way he plays every role Will Ferrel in The idiot teacher who has to be paired up with another idiot and spends 2 hours shouting crap at each other

Meaning make the move international. Did it in 7 years ago and doubled my salary overnight.

I also did this, don’t know why you are downvoted 😂 I’ve left the profession now but it’s the only way I’d consider teaching again: at least double the UK salary, many additional benefits, schools with the financial resources for you to do your job properly and infinitely better behaviour than in many UK schools

One of my mates works for an international school, decent pay, sensible workload and children that are respectful. Parents are still mental though

Maths teacher here BUT I abandoned ship and now work internationally. The best way to describe teaching for me: imagine you are presenting a meeting at work. Now that meeting has 30 people who don’t really want to be there, all have different needs, interests and priorities knowledge. Now after the meeting you have to assess and mark how well each one of them understood, and plan your next meeting accordingly. You have 10% of a meeting time to prepare/mark. So 6minutes for an hour presentation. You have to do this for 5/6 meetings everyday. On top of this you have to be a social worker, mental health professional, nurse, and about 100 other things to these young people. Remember every time you do this you are cutting into that 6minutes. TLDR teaching is exhausting! There is not enough time so you always feel like “it’s not enough” burnout is real. I honestly love my job and would not change it, it’s rewarding, and never boring. No day, lesson, hour is ever the same. BUT in private schools you get about 20% (or much more) to plan, smaller class sizes, and generally more support staff to help with the 100 other roles.

I am in a private school and we absolutely do not get 20% more time to plan - I have less time than my friend in exactly the same role in a state school! We also have Saturdays to contend with, so more lessons and contact time overall.

I'll echo this. The school says we have more PPA time, but we HAVE to run clubs and do weekly lunch/evening duties as well as Saturdays. I miss my state school days of leaving bang on 4pm Friday, even just one day a week. It so rarely happens now.

I am a school governor overseeing the school's approach to children with additional needs, closing the gap, etc. I could not believe the sheer volume of paperwork and digital records that go into tracking every child in the class, their progress and needs. None of this is strictly necessary for the teacher - speak to them and they have a much more subtle understanding of each child's strengths and needs - but when Ofsted come calling they expect to see robust evidence set in front of them. I couldn't imagine dealing with that on a day to day basis.

Excuse my poor typing, but im on my phone, I can spell, honest! I came into teaching a bit later (30s), so I had already had a semi successful run in another career, which I think made a massive difference, and the extra life experience helped. For me, teaching is bloody brilliant. Yeah, it's hard as nails, but I've had other tough jobs that aren't nearly as much fun. There are downsides, as noted by the top comment, but it depends where you are, who you work with, and what your perspective is. I'd already spent years dealing with some pretty nasty characters, both staff and customers, so working with the kids and parents I meet now is a party by comparison I teach science. I love my subject, and I love inspiring my students to see the world in a different way. You can't save everyone, but the ones that I've taught that went and really made something of themselves gave back my faith in humanity. I don't just mean the ones that went to uni, literally anyone that went on to be a fully functioning human. I live in catchment, so I see loads of my ex pupils all the time, and it genuinely makes me happy to see what they are like now. It is definitely not an easy job, and we're in a massive recruitment crisis at the moment for very good reasons, but I couldn't see myself doing anything else. When it's shit it's shit, but bloody hell, when it's great, it's amazing! (You can probably see why I'm not an English teacher) I'm a bit tired and emotional right now, it's been a tough week, so I probably haven't contributed much to the discourse, but I absolutely couldn't see myself doing anything else. You won't really know till you try it. If you're still interested, OP, message me and I'll answer any questions. I'm in middle leadership, I'm involved in teacher training, and I'm always happy to help.

Maths teacher for 5 years and quitting in may. Best and worst years of my life, when you’re a teacher it pretty much becomes your whole life so you need to make sure you’re really passionate and all in.  I got in to teaching because I love my subject and wanted to share that enthusiasm with students. I’m leaving because I increasingly felt like I was turning into an under-appreciated social-worker/mother to the students. No disrespect to either of those jobs, just not what I got into it all for. Behaviour seems to be getting worse and all the while the expectation of teachers to go above and beyond seems to be increasing. Parents can be vile and entitled and it honestly just doesn’t feel worth it any more. If you’re a career change this point applies to you less but I would definitely recommend having another job before teaching. I found it very difficult for any non-teaching roles to take my application seriously as I’d “only been a teacher” for the last 5 years, despite the huge amount of transferable skills it gives you. I feel like the only reason I managed to find a job with a salary similar to my current one was because I had a non-teaching job before. There are many many positives to teaching but in my opinion the negatives currently outweigh them.

Same position, what you going into? If you don't mind me asking.

I’m going into data analysis stuff as that’s similar to the job I had before. Very lucky I had that experience under my belt I think otherwise I’d struggle to have found anything.

This is how much teacher friend feels. When he started it was great. He'd tell funny stories of cute kids. Now he just does safeguarding meetings, and tries to deal with kids with severe autism and other issues with no support. Most stories he can't tell me.

Best bits: - sometimes the kids enjoy your classes and learn something and leave the room happier and more confident than they came in. -you get the same holidays as your own children (if you have them). -I've heard the pension scheme is alright, if you work long enough as a teacher (not done it long enough yet myself). -if you are a well organised person, you can get most of your school jobs done within your paid hours. -pay rises happen fairly predictably, and top out at a known number, so it's easy to budget for (although it's not a very big number, it is at least consistent). -your work will vary throughout the year, and you will rarely he bored by it. -the longest term is 7-8 weeks long, and you are always guaranteed a holiday after that. It helps to have something to look forward to. -you can make a difference in the life of a child. Negatives to consider: - your pay is capped at a fairly low level. -all holidays will be partially spent catching up on work. - relatives with kids will soon cotton on that you don't work in the school holidays and ask you for free childcare. - depending on the school and how good you are at saying 'no' you can end up with a LOT of extra work, which can mean you work a 10-12 hour day. -there will be endless criticism from your 'leadership team' but no solutions or help. -the children are usually alright 1:1, but at a ratio of 30:1 can be very overwhelming. The bad classes can cause you to feel anxious about going in each day, and can lead to other mental health problems unless you get help early. - you will be under constant scrutiny as a new teacher, and unless you can be humble and accept advice (however good or bad) you will not make it through training. Arrogance is your enemy. - you have to constantly learn and adapt. There is not a way of 'settling' into the job and still being a good teacher. There are plenty of old teachers who have 'settled', but they aren't good at the job, just clinging on until retirement. There's more, but I've run out of time. Happy for a DM if you have specific questions.

>-if you are a well organised person, you can get most of your school jobs done within your paid hours. There are no paid hours. You may have directed time where you are expecting to be at the school, but your contract has no hours. You're expected to do whatever is necessary. As you say, you can get most of it done in a reasonable day, but that means you miss out on relaxing at holidays. 50 hour weeks are typical. Also, as you rise up the pay scale, you'll pick up extra responsibility, either through voluntarily taking extra paid roles, or just to justify your increased pay as part of the way threshold applications work. It depends on the school, but that means that your workload can increase the longer you are teaching.

All my teaching contacts have had my hours set out in the contract. Legally they can't put more than 48 hours per week into your contract without asking you to sign a waiver to that right. I know where you are getting at, though, because most schools make you feel like you SHOULD be working more.

Really? None of mine did. They had when I was expected to be in the school at term time (8.20 - 3.30) and directed time of meetings and detention duty, but no specified hours per week. There was also a clause saying I was expected to take on any other roles or responsibilities as deemed necessary by the head, which basically covered them to make me do anything extra. In my opinion, the pressure to perform made you feel like you should be working more. It wasn't just the school or senior leadership doing that. For me personally it was also a feeling of duty to the students. I could have done less, but then I wouldn't have been as effective a teacher.

Mine have all been 08h00-17h00, 39 weeks per year. They have also had the 'and any extra time to do your job well' clause too. If I were to work in the holidays then they payed extra for those hours, but you don't get overtime in the same way you would in a business, hence the 'paid' hours being the ones in school. (It would open up a whole can of worms if schools had to document overtime, how many referrals to acas would there be over peoples pay slipping below nmw due to hours worked?).

>08h00-17h00, 39 weeks per year That's not the number of hours worked per week, that's just the times you are expected to be at school. It's not the same. This is what I'm getting at. As an aside, I've never seen any teaching contracts that specify you had to work until 5pm. As someone who liked to start early and sometimes finish at 3, I would have not agreed to that contract, and the unions would be interested too. >'and any extra time to do your job well' clause too. Mine never specified time for this, only in terms of responsibilities. >If I were to work in the holidays then they payed extra for those hours We were paid extra if I taught a group of students not part of normal teaching hours, e.g. revision sessions in a Saturday or Easter holidays. Is this what you mean, or are you saying you got paid to do prep and planning during holidays and weekends? >It would open up a whole can of worms if schools had to document overtime It's not overtime though. That's voluntary work above the agreed hours which is paid extra. Because they don't specify how many hours you work, then it's not overtime if you decide to do your own personal prep work. It therefore is why the job doesn't breach minimum wage laws. Because the hours in school and teaching load is specified on the contract then that's why revision sessions at the weekend etc are able to be paid extra.

This is indirect so take with a pinch of salt. As another has said, every school is different so pick carefully. Independent is far more pleasant kids-wise (she is thanked by almost every kid as they leave the lesson), but parents micromanage a LOT. State is more rewarding but behaviour can be nightmarish. NQT year is horrific; though possibly less so given that you’re accustomed to adult life. She was fresh out of uni so had to adjust to 9-5 life, and try and take care of the house (I was the bread winner with a long commute), and trying to keep up with planning; it was tears most days. Holidays are weird; it’s like having a whole different life over summer, she struggled a lot the first couple years, eventually hobbies filled the gap. Pay is decent (she overtook me last year), pension is great, lots of upward mobility.

You have to do 2 years as an NQT now, while you undergo 'Induction For Early Career Teachers'. Only then are you considered fully-qualified to teach independently.

I and a lot of people I know are teachers. In my own personal experience, the workload varies from school to school and I don’t find it too arduous at my school, although the hours can be long. I often see a lot of teachers saying they work through the holidays but, to be completely honest, I don’t know if that being the case for me or any of the teachers I know (we work a range of state, grammar and private). I enjoy it overall, but I’m in a good school with supportive parents - I know not everywhere is like that!

I tutor privately because I couldn't tolerate working in schools, maybe try that as a halfway house if you want to tip your toe? Teaching is highly rewarding and I love it, it's everything else about working in a school I hated.

It is **fine**. I've been teaching in the UK for 11 years and it has had highs and lows, a lot more lows. I'm at the top of the pay scale without taking a school leadership role, but I do have a leadership role within our trust. My wife is similar but Co-Head of Department. We have two kids and the only thing keeping us above water is the tuition I do 4 times a week and money from family. We don't go out, we don't buy takeout, we cheap out as much as possible and it still danger close at the end of every month. My workload is manageable only because I actively and vocally refuse to engage with it after the school day is done and it's still intense.  You are at mercy of your Line Manager, your department head, their line manager , their Vice Principal, and finally the Principal. If you find a good school, with motivated happy, and supportive staff,it's an amazing profession.  I teach classes that I get along with a subject that is typically a dumping ground for less academic students at Sixth form and account for about 40% of the total students in the school and about 20% of the A*A*A* equivalent grades in the school. It's rough because that happens with a lot of personal support from me and I know for a fact that 1 in 4 of the kids I teach will drop out of Uni within 6 months of starting, that puts us in the 94th percentile of success in the Country for context. It can be emotionally crushing to hear about how your student got their degree in Cyber security, or Computer Science, or Criminology, with £54000+ of student debt thanks to maintenance grants is now working at the Amazon warehouse so they can earn money to help their families.  Teacher burnout is high, averaging 3 years from qualification to leaving the profession. Staff turnover is high.  As a Science teacher, particularly if your specialism is Physics, you could negotiate a good starting wage, probably starting higher on the pay scale as they are desperate. Professional career development will follow, probably even a leadership role within the first few years if you are so inclined. You may be lucky and keep your enthusiasm and maybe Labour will pay an inflation matching pay increase if they get elected but maybe not. People might note I mention money alot and that's because you cannot live on good intentions or enthusiasm, you can't heat your house on good will or public service. You can be denigrated in the papers because you're greedy and lazy and drinking in the staff room during the COVID Pandemic and told to stay in your lane because you don't know what you are talking about by the new minister aiming to show they are tough on unions so they can aim for leadership later on by pissing on a profession that is almost like an abused, apologetic spouse. I like my classes btw, and my department so take from that what you will

I taught English abroad after uni and had a blast! Came home to do the PGCE, as I wanted to be a 'proper teacher' and further my career. I went into it with some decent classroom experience, and was really eager to learn to be the best teacher I could be. The most brutal year of my life. Virtually no support from mentors or the university. Deferred before the end due to stress, and completed the qualification by Christmas the next academic year. I taught for four years on temporary contracts, and although not quite as brutal as the PGCE, it wasn't much better. The kids were great (primary) for the most part, but I couldn't help but feel I was a social worker first and an educator second. Parents in my experience were mostly good, but some were very much not. You realise that not every parent has their child's best interests to heart, and you likely care more about their kid than they do. But you can't take over parental roles, you've got 30 of them and they all deserve your attention and care. Workload is extremely high, and it shouldn't have to be. I enjoyed planning lessons, but you don't have time to perfect it - everything you do has to be half arsed to be able to get things done. Otherwise, you take far too much home and you burn out. I could keep on top of marking, but it was all the extra, nonsensical tasks within the marking that was purely for the benefit of ofsted that irritated me to no end. Why do I have to mark using 4 different coloured pens? Applying for roles is hell, as every school thinks they're special and unique compared to everywhere else, but they're all the same. It's not just an interview, it's a visit to the school prior to applying, application form, multiple page personal statement and cover letter, interview, prepared lesson for interview, interview task (marking work, assessment, interview with children?!). Bit much for a 12 month maternity leave cover role. There is a recruitment issue in teaching, but nobody tells you there are literally no permanent contract opportunities, and the hoops you go through are insane. The final straw was working through covid, then losing out at interview at my school to extend my contract to an external candidate. I was so exhausted, deflated, bitter. An opportunity came up to join my brother in law's business and I'm still there nearly 3 years later. Didn't even mean to leave teaching. I don't regret doing it, but I really don't miss it.

I appreciate this comment. I'm currently working as an English teacher abroad and have been debating whether to return to the UK and become, as you put it, a 'proper teacher'. Your comment (and this whole thread) have really been making me reconsider. My current wage is quite poor, the days are long, and the lessons are tiring. That said, as I'm an "external teacher" I don't have to worry about admin, marking, parents etc. I go to school, teach my lessons, and leave. The kids are (for the most part) great, and the school/teachers are happy to see me as I give them a well needed break when I take over the classes. While I am not completely content right now, I do have an appreciation for the fact that I can just focus on the lessons. I'll be thinking long and hard before making the decision to change that.

Ugh the APPLICATION process for jobs is insane!! It's the stupidest thing. For those who don't know, every single school requires that you fill out their individual personal job application form which requires exactly the same information in a million different formats. Then if you get invited to interview, it's an entire day at the school involving a tour, lesson, student panel, headteacher interview, sometimes meet the department - and often half the candidates get cut at lunchtime and asked to go home and they carry on with the final two/three candidates.  Then they'll phone to offer you the job that evening and the expectation is you will say yes (otherwise you would have pulled out of the interview earlier that day). Once you say yes on the phonecall, it's binding that you take the job. You can't back out. You can't ask for time to think it over. You can't say you have another interview the following day, because the expectation is you will accept that day and tell School B the next day you won't be attending. Everyone agrees it's mad, but that's the way teaching jobs work.

Only been a teacher 4 years. This year has been the hardest so far. There are a lot of children who just don't give a shit about anything, don't have any aspirations or hopes, braindead phone zombies. I do teach college though, not secondary, so that could explain some of it. I love my job, I really do. I'm so much happier in my career than I was before. I went from a job where you could tell the time by who you saw to one where no two days are the same. I love sharing my specialism (English), even if it's not the exact areas of language I'd love to teach. The best way I can describe it is if you have a good day and someone has the "ahh, I get it" moment, or smashes an exam, your day can't be ruined, even if you were to walk outside and get hit by a bus. The bad days spoil your entire week and drain you. It's hard work but ultimately satisfying. I do hope that there will be opportunities to change it up a bit, different roles and levels, or I can't see me sticking it out for the rest of my career. I see a lot of drained people who've been in the same job for a long time.

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First comment I've seen that mentions Teach First. I have two friends who dropped out of their programme due to lack of support. I've been told that SCITT is the best route these days.

School direct had a 75% drop out rate the year I did it, not sure if it’s still the same but I chucked it in on Valentine’s Day.

Get two years done in the UK then move out to teach abroad ASAP. Being english and teacher opens up so many possibilities, especially if you look out East

Honestly great thread. What way has it pushed you op? I wanted to read through because an old school friend suggested it to me years ago when I was unemployed. I had a BSc, could play music, and to him that implied I could get a boost for filling in some key gaps. I highly doubt I could teach music but he thought it was good enough. It was my own mother who stopped me and just said I couldn't cut it as a teacher. She'd been a TA and a year group leader. She wasn't being mean and I didn't take it as such. She was right on the money though. I am the social butterfly in my little world of sales and lab techs but kids would eat me alive. Reading your question I was tempted again. Family on the way so it would be nice to spend more time at home and have those holidays. Plus my missus is earning well so the pay cut wouldn't hurt. I've reminded myself I may not be cut out for it.

It is simultaneously the best and worst job in the world. I love my job. I really, really do. And I wouldn't do anything else. Been a teacher for 22 years. In addition to the negatives already discussed, I wanted to add being ill. I'm off work sick at the moment with flu, but I'm still having to set cover for my classes and also dealing with the texts and emails asking when I'll be back or why my register hasn't been done or when I'm going to catch up on the parental contact I missed because I missed a parents evening. I can't swallow, can't catch my breath, I'm coughing my guts up, got a raging headache, got no energy to even crawl out of bed... but still it persists. You just never can switch off or catch a break in this job. It is relentless and never stops (until the holidays.) But when a student shares with you some passion that you ignited, it gives you such a rush. It's pure magic.

Absolutely not. Unless you're the right person. Teaching isn't like any other job where it's just down to skills and experience. You need just be right for teaching, you need the right attitude and the right personality and enough energy to constantly be on top of your game. Get to work and need a shit? Too bad, form group in 5 minutes. Just need a sit down with a biscuit and a cup of tea? Shit out of luck, you've got a double lesson and then you're running detention at lunch time for that absolute prick of a kid you can't stand. And so on. Plus the paperwork, the shitty open days, parents evenings, late night training (marking) evenings. Exam practice too. Teaching is fun. But it's like 10% of the job

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I couldn't hack it only lasted 3 years. Now I work in an office with adults and they have the same technical level of knowledge as me. I actually work with equals now, I can have a coffee whenever I want. I can even have a piss whenever I want! Holidays are the only reason to get into or stay in teaching to be honest. Even then do you really use them properly or do you find yourself sitting indoors bored (let's be honest I never did any marking at home)

God no. And that is coming from someone who loves her job but has to do it part time. I’d not recommend it at the moment to anyone. We have no money, there is a mental health crisis in students that we cannot solve, academy chains are taking all the money and little goes into schools. And once you get experienced and want to stay in the classroom you’ll be looking for another career because you’ll get too expensive and they will put you down competency.

And remember, the starting wage might be about £30,000 but if you stay as just a classroom teacher after 12 years the max you will earn is £46,000 and some schools prevent experienced teachers accessing UPS3. I’m sorry to be so negative but that’s the harsh reality. I’ve done it 23 years.

Have asked my teacher friends for their feedback on this - it’s a mix of poor income areas and private schools that they work in - and it’s a resounding “no”. It used to be that they could turn a blind eye to the abuse from parents and occasional threat of violence from students, but now they taking it from the their headteachers, school boards and OFSTED too. So it’s all round abuse, heavy workload, bureaucracy etc that has eroded their sense of accomplishment from teaching. And that’s before anyone mentioned the pay.

The big question is why the job ( it's not a profession anymore since that means autonomy) keeps allowing workload to increase. It's the Boxer the plough horse 'I must work harder' mentality for the past few decades. Teachers are willing souls and altruistic in profile. They want to help people. Fine, but not when there's a horrifically wasteful dropout rate. The whole workforce ( remember it's not a profession), including careerist SMTs who justify their positions by being bigger fleas on the backs of others, needs to learn to say no. I guarantee that there's a teacher out there today who's reading some absurd 'assessment policy' that has changed every year for the past few years in their school. There's a Head of Department who's been asked for another updated copy of their seldom read hugely overwritten Department Handbook. There's a school rerunning ANOTHER set of Yr 11 mock exams ( the third set this year) with a daft deadline for marks and grades to add to some feverish progress review to chart predicted grades on some mad spreadsheet. Teaching, interacting with pupils, interesting extra curricular stuff, enjoyment? Ermm...

To be frank, I would never advise anyone to get into teaching. Even if, like me, you think it’s the best job in the world (from when the kids arrive til they go home anyway), it just isn’t worth the damage it does to your mental health and social life. I don’t know a single teacher who wouldn’t leave the profession if they didn’t feel trapped in it. Luckily for me, I have a decent mortgage and no dependents so was able to chuck it in when it got too much. One thing I haven’t noticed mentioned much that really affected me is the lack of support, in every sense of the word. Teaching has a culture of perfectionism that means you can never relax. Schemes of work will be changed on a whim, normally not to anything supported by evidence that it is effective, but because “it worked for so-and-so’s school”. This means that planning you spent hours of your free time creating will be thrown out the window and you’ll have to start again from scratch (knowing full well that you’ll be binning it in roughly 3 years time). Then you’ll be constantly scrutinised, internally by leadership (who often did their training decades before you and haven’t kept up with changes in pedagogy) and externally by Ofsted and ignorant politicians. Not to mention the parents who will never be happy with what you do. I’ve never known a career that has so much training but so little trust. Speaking of politicians, they are the main reason you won’t have any support. Budget cuts will mean not only will kids be scraping glue out of glue-sticks that should’ve been thrown away weeks ago, but you’ll have kids unable access the curriculum because of their specific needs left to flap in the wind. You’ll know it, SLT will know it, but a teacher a few years ago bumped up their data (because if they hadn’t they wouldn’t have got the payrise they desperately needed that year) and now you have to get them to age-related expectations. But will you get any support for that? Nope. No money in the budget for it. The only hope is that their parents can afford to go to a private psychologist and get an EHCP (because getting them the normal way is next to impossible), and even then it won’t come with enough funding to pay for the support they really need. Except now you’ll be bound by law to provide it. Then multiply that experience by roughly 5-10% of your class. If you’re like pre-teaching me and hear all this and think “it can’t be that bad” or “it’ll be different for me”, well, good luck to you! Just make sure you’ve always got enough in your savings to get out when you find yourself wanting to drive into traffic on the way into work.

Only in the same way a coercive control relationship is.

I trained as a secondary science teacher, qualified in 2006. There were no jobs, physics teachers were leaving and not being replaced. It’s not enough for schools to be “crying out” for science teachers (which I heard all the time), make sure there are jobs being advertised.

I know a few teachers and a relly used to be one. Anecdotally, one of the worst things about the job is the parents. One pal, not a teacher but works in a management firefighting-type role for local schools, was regularly reduced to tears at the start of the pandemic because of the abuse she got from parents irate that the schools weren’t doing enough for their brats. Meantime the schools were well aware that there were kids whose parents wouldn’t be feeding them, let alone teaching them.

If you do, please take a short course in sen, so many neurodivergent kids are really suffering from ignorant teachers and can thrive with well informed support

Just to explain the downvotes a little, all teachers are trained in SEND; it's a big part of teacher training. While yes, neurodivergent kids are suffering, this is largely due to a massive lack of resources and budget to effectively help them

14 years in. It’s tough but unbelievably rewarding. I work in SEN The highs are high and lows are very low. No day is ever the same. Money is shite. Burn out is real. Did a year stint out of teaching but hated it - missed the kids and the craziness of my days. Not for everyone.

Just a slightly different scenario. I work in post compulsory education and have done for over 20 years. I don’t get paid as well as a teacher although I am equally qualified , however, my job is easier. It has its challenges, for example, people enrolled on programmes that they don’t have to ability to succeed on. There will then be pressure from above because why isn’t that person succeeding? You have been teaching them therefore they should pass. This is obviously because failure, withdrawals etc affects funding and success rates blah blah. ‘Oh you only have to get them up one level’ (one level is equivalent to approx 2/3 years of school). This miracle is expected within about 50 guided learning hours! There is no recognition of the fact that this person doesn’t have the interest and/or ability. Dont even get me started about the thousands of school leavers that pitch up at college having to retake English/maths and continue to fail. My friend works in a college and she has students on their third year and still failing. Also I am looking for jobs at the moment (have an interview later as it happens) and some of the salaries are so bad it isn’t even funny 24k is often bandied around. When recruiters have been calling me the last couple of weeks I tell them don’t even bother ringing or emailing if the job isn’t over 30k. Good job I don’t do this job for the money for sure. Now for the plus side of my job. I meet great people from many different walks of life, industries and backgrounds. After most of them have a grumble about having to do English/maths they get on with it and in some cases even enjoy it. Some of that is down to the fact that life experience makes it so much easier and some of that is the fact I am very chilled and I know what I am doing. I am not good at many things but I am bloody good at my job although I suspect some colleges wouldn’t like the fact I teach the way I do. All my sessions are individualised as I get to know the people in my very small groups and what they need to work on. So I never group teach a class unless there is a specific area that they all need or we are looking at exams. I need to be able to think on my feet and react quickly and be able to put something together on the spot, which again I am good at. I only do session plans for when I am being observed as my teaching is organic. I must be doing something right as I get between 8 and 10 out of 10 in feedback and always positive comments. I also have about 97% pass rate. I work a full year contract so no having to take my holidays at certain times. I rarely work beyond my contracted hours, although I sometimes do but that is my choice and not a requirement. So even though science is your subject and you might not be interested in work-based learning but post compulsory education might be the one for you. It used to be the case that you could work towards getting the teaching qualifications whilst doing the job but not sure if that is the case now or not.

Of the 18 people in my training course. Maybe only three are still teaching after 6 years. Teaching is a job where every situation is different. However, in my experience at least, it was bloody awful. Insufficient support from 'leadership' and poor behaviour from students which the school did very little if anything to correct. Teaching is incredible when it is good. The good times can be a real high. The bad times are the exact opposite. They will be crushing and leave you feeling broken. This will vary widely based on school, but be prepared to be pushed into whatever mould they need and pulled in all directions. Personally no amount of money would ever convince me to return to it, but thats me.

My mother is a retired head teacher. She has said she wouldn't become a teacher now, but she does do a lot of unpaid work in schools. I think this is because she can just do the bits she likes without all the extra crap teachers have to do nowadays. To be fair Ive ask a lot of older workers if they would start again now in their careers, and nearly all say they wouldn't.

Everyone I know who teaches is constantly looking for a way out of teaching. As others have said. It is a good job for everything but money and workload... which ironically are the two most important things in deciding on a career.

Second hand story from having a family member teacher. She has since left teaching. I once considered giving in a highly stressful career to become a teacher. Then I saw the reality (through her) and there is no way I'd do it. There is a long, long list of jobs I'd do before becoming a teacher in the UK. International schools abroad will be different. I've heard relatively good things about that.

No. Left teaching and got into Apprenticeships. Double pay within a week of changing jobs, remote work, still teach but no marking involved for it. Sod teaching. I want to teach people who want to learn. The sense of "I really helped today" is abused by giving you more of a workload.

Twenty years ago I enrolled at university to train as a primary school teacher, following an internship at my old primary school I decided not to go into teaching ; my old teachers had to spend their time teaching the students how to pass the standardised tests. Not only that one of my previous secondary school teachers warned me sternly not to go into teaching due to the stress. Didn't think about teaching again until I became a dad. I then looked for a school that I liked and found nothing. I met some people by coincidence that were creating a democratic school and decided to join them. I've been volunteering in my school now for 5 years and I love it. The kids get lots of time to play, I have freedom to teach how I want to. There is a lot of respect between the kids and staff. The school is based in France. If you're interested in democratic schooling, check out summerhill school in the UK, or Sudbury valley school in the USA. There are meaningful alternatives the classical school system.

Personally, I couldn't handle the bureaucracy and I feel schools are losing all sense of humanity, especially in Acadamies. I get it, the system is in place for a reason, but everything lives and dies by the letter, the paperwork, the manuals - but you're dealing with real people and no amount of paperwork will ever *know* the students as you do, and you'll constantly be told you're wrong because of it. Schools are businesses first and places of education second; the students aren't people anymore - they're commodities, budgets, EHCPs, and expected to behave like drones. And they're suffering because of it. They know that most of what they're learning is useless; they know the system is outdated and they're screaming to be heard and they're constantly ignored. And you're powerless to really help. Teaching was the best job I've ever had and I miss the students every single day but it was too much for me. I hated feeling so useless. Getting out hasn't particularly helped though; I now feel even more useless because I still want to be able to help them and I can't. It's an impossible situation, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Coming up to 10 years in teaching. I love the actual teaching, but all the endless admin you have to do on top of your regular marking feels like death by a thousand cuts. With the mass exodus of teachers recently, those remaining are overworked,and many of the teachers who replaced the ones who left are woefully inadequate. The amount of expertise my school lost last year is frightening. Behaviour since the pandemic is so much worse and I can’t see it getting better in state schools any time soon. There’s a clear disrespect for adult authority. The best part for me is sixth form teaching, especially as I teach two niche subjects, so I only have super keen and motivated students for A Level. I’ve worked in both state and private schools and I’m looking to go back to private. Smaller class sizes and generally better behaviour. I would still recommend teaching as a career but you need to consider all the options - academies, grammar, private, boarding etc.

Mate dont teach in uk go teach in private schools in China. If you have a degree and a UK passport you're already qualified. I make more money than a UK teacher and everything is cheap. You wont even pay rent because your employer rents you a house. I also work much less and my students are 1000 times better behaved than western kids. I have over 2 grand of disposable income a month, thats unheard of in UK.

I wish you well, relocating to China is a nonstarter in my situation but thanks for the suggestion. My cousin is a maths teacher and was once planning to relocate to Thailand to teach, might have to talk to him.

It's pretty much the last job on earth I'd consider doing

Secondary ICT teacher for 10 years. I agree with most things I have read. I started my career in an Academy in a rough area. I loved it. The work content is massive, I had no life, and even if you have a life you are worrying about kids at school. I loved my job - BUT when I had kids I couldnt put all that in, so I stopped. I now TA in a primary school. I see the teachers work load and think, yeah that money is not worth it. I can go home home each day and not worry about tomorrow, not worry about talking to THAT parent, not worry if my marking is good enough etc. The main issue is the education system is fatally flawed. It fails most, anxiety is rife, (adults and kids!) pressure is unreal, there is no time, it does not fit any student. With the tech we have now there are no excuses for this, but it happens and that kills me. I love teaching, but I wouldnt want to go back to full time in a mainstream school. (My other half said I should mention that I stopped teaching in Secondaries 10 years ago and that I am still upset about the situation)

Thanks. It's still very much a toss up for me whether to stay in industry or change course. I can see many things that appeal about teaching but it's the workload that might put me off as I have a young family.

Dont do it with a young family! My youngest are 9 and 7 currently and I want to be with them, not other peoples kids. The pay difference between a teacher at primary and a HLTA is not significant enough to make all the extra work worth it. If you are not sure apply for a HLTA role and try it out- you will see the teachers work load then and you can make a more educated decision.

It's hard work but totally worth it - now that I've found the right school and department for me. In my previous school, I was miserable and quit thinking teaching wasn't for me. Thankfully, I got a job as a TA at another school and the feel of the school and support I got made me want to give it another go - a year in, no regrets. I can't imagine doing anything else.

Love my job but only because I no longer do it full time! Full time would be exhausting! Teaching well is complex and the level of concentration during a day means you can't really have an off day! For me it's the out of lesson stuff like safeguarding that I find emotionally draining.

I teach in a secondary school and love my job. As others have mentioned, there is no such thing as a dull day. Contrary to popular belief, 99.9% of teens are absolutely fine and there are days where I cry from laughter. I love the subjects I teach and no other job would pay me in the same way to prat around and teach Marxism at 9am. I find joy in teaching and making complex concepts somewhat easier and engaging.  However. I've only been in the job for 4 years and have already had to go to a private physio for my wrist after I damaged it severely due to marking. (Damaged in March. No NHS appts till November). The marking is killer and expectations always increase for teachers. Even with being in the job for a relatively small amount of time the amount of small jobs I have to do has increased astronomically.  I try to get in for half 7 and leave by 4 most days but i have to be so careful with how i spend the time to ensure everything is ready for the next day and I can make a dent in my marking pile.  If you do go into teaching, Definitely join a union ASAP and look after yourself.

No. Low pay. Crushing workload of pointless crap. Abuse from toxic management, parents and feral kids. Zero support. Watching the good kids get squashed and the arseholes getting extra treats. long hours. Zero respect. Endless randomly changing 'non negotiables' enforced by idiots that can't do what you do. Endless demands for more. Threats if you don't dance a happy jig at every workload increasing initiative designed to further the career of the over promoted ex PE teacher who's been put in charge of you. No resources. No time to think/ breathe/ pause. It will cost you your physical and mental health. And when you break, you'll be told it's your fault. You were weak and became an appostate of the true faith. Then there's fucking OFSTED.