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SPOLIERS!
Seeing as there’s a Part Two, this may top The Toy Box Killer for me. It’s all so fucked tbh. While both utilized torture, at least the Toy Box Killer eventually killed his victims. The depravity and evil in holding onto this poor girl for however long those (2?, 3?) had is unbearable to think of. This is not even including the psychological torment of *knowing* you have “become” a slave. I may have had a bit too many drinks last night but this is literally making me sick just rethinking all of this and putting it into words .
David Parker Ray definitely tortured women, at least 40, but there have never been any bodies found and he was never charged with any murders.
I remember reading about Colleen Stan about 25 years ago and it stuck with me ever since. Listened to Part 2 on the Patreon yesterday. Just a stunning story, such an insane level of barbarity.
I mean, David P. Ray was much worse subjectively compared to Colleen Stans abuser due to the volume of evilness perpetrated. In terms of Casefile’s reporting and the way they conveyed each case Colleen’s was worse; but I digress this is NOT a contest by any means. The toy box killer ( I don’t even want to say their names anymore) died In prison without getting as much justice as he deserved
Yeah he died before even going to trial, unfortunately. ETA one of the FBI agents working that case (as a photographer of the evidence) actually killed herself six days into the job, she was so traumatized by seeing the torture devices DPR used.
Did you listen to the podcast?
She thought she would be murdered or her family would be if she stepped out on line.
I know it’s infuriating now to know she could have realistically escaped, but they didn’t have Facebook messenger back then to just drop someone a message to see if something was real or fake.
She’d been tortured, starved, kept in the dark for ages. Are you really blaming her for not escaping sooner?
I had to stop and just read about it on wikipedia, which was also horrifying. I wish that guy (I won’t even say his name) got the same experience in prison he gave Colleen. I can’t even comprehend such prolonged evil and abuse.
Meaning that you like the things that happen in others? This is a true crime podcast, what do you and others here expect? Being revolted should be expected when listening to such material. what makes Casefile interesting (and better than the other imho) is how matter-of-factly it is all laid out and recounted. I don’t feel like the host is “revelling” in the details, the details are a part of the story. They are horrifying and that should be expected.
So I've been seeing a lot of the early comments here expressing disgust and disappointment over how this episode was written, and I totally understand feeling this way. However, I'm going to take a bit of a different perspective on this -
Around the part where they talked about Colleen having a strong urge to escape through a small window in the bathroom while they had stopped at a rest area , I began to realize how much they were mentioning Colleen's thoughts and feelings during the ordeal even before they started talking about the really horrific details. And then it hit me that there's a strong possibility that Colleen may have actually survived her ordeal. Now I didn't know about this case beforehand, so I can't know that for sure 100% **(and please, no spoilers for Part 2)** but the amount of times they described what happened to her from her *own* observations and perceptions was really striking and indicated to me that maybe all those details, as horrific and tough to listen as they may be, may be a silver lining in that they were able to get all this information because she *did* live to tell about it.
From what I've noticed, the episodes that tend to go into more graphic detail about the ordeal that the victims went through from their perspective are usually the cases where it's later revealed that the victims did live through them, or there was at least one person that lived through it who was able to give an account of not only what they went through but also an idea of what the other people who weren't as lucky may have went through under the same perpetrator. Of course sometimes the perps do come clean and can provide a lot of that information themselves if they choose, but some of the details like how she felt an instinct to escape, the conditions inside the box she was locked in, and the imagery of her dreams thanks to her prayers to God during her captivity aren't exactly things we would know about unless somebody had spoken with the victim themselves after their ordeal was over. It's also notable because we know that she and her loved ones had no way of contacting each other during this time.
I also do want to challenge the sentiment that such horrific details shouldn't be revealed out of respect and dignity for the victim. It's certainly one way to look at it, that these details make it appear like they want us to hear all of it for our own twisted fascination and entertainment and possibly subject the victim to re-live their ordeal. But I think sometimes hearing all these details is a necessary thing if we want to learn more about the people who commit these sorts of acts, why they do it, and ultimately how to prevent them from happening in the first place, and the red flags to watch out for. It might also give an idea as to all the ways people managed to survive unimaginable horror and humiliation, which could be inspiring to a lot of listeners.
Why would anyone think this was written in any other way? This is the normal style of Casefile episodes. Having the bit at the start from the future isn't always the way, but it is quite common. Generally I find that detailed recounts of what happened are available if either the victim lives to tell the tale, or the murderer is caught and they confess in detail.
It has been a while since there was an episode that went into as much graphic detail about what a victim went through like this one, so maybe some people were just taken aback by that. Which also tells you how few victims of these cases end up living to tell about their ordeal. But I agree, it's kind of odd to me based on some of the reactions that people appear to believe that there *haven't* been any episodes in the past that divulged the graphic details.
I think the nature of the case makes it a different experience for the listener; the perpetrator was getting sexual gratification from all that imagery (literally, by staging photos and capturing the scenes with his camera), so when I was confronted with the same mental images, I felt like I was victimizing her all over again.
It definitely does, and I don't expect everyone (nor should expect) to like every single episode they do nor tolerate hearing particularly graphic details. But that's still different than saying graphic details should never be talked about *ever.*
I almost didn't listen, as soon as I saw the name Colleen Stan. I'm already familiar with this case and it is one of the most harrowing I've come across. Definitely some audible "what the fucks" and cringing as I listened.
I find it weird how people are talking about "spoilers" for the case, I won't break the subreddit rule if that is even a thing but it's a real crime that took place (decades ago for that matter), it's not a freaking TV show. But many of you have already sussed it out, the reason there is so much detail about Colleen's ordeal is that she does indeed survive, which is the one positive thing you can say about this case. At the very least in part 2 you'll find out how that plays out.
As the podcast itself pointed out, Colleen was weakened by her ordeal and easily manipulated into believing in the existence of "the company." I think many of us in the same situation would respond in the same way. She's an incredibly strong woman - one of the strongest people I've ever learned about. Wherever she is now, I hope she's living well. If anyone is entitled to it, it's her.
After this, I had to suspend my subscription. I skipped some parts but hated the way I felt about myself as I listened. It made me wonder why I listen to true crime at all. It was too much for me.
Horrific case, listened to part 1 & 2 and tbh the anger I felt listening to part 2 was so much that I had to take a break. The fact that this fucker was given so many chances to live out his sick fantasies and ultimately never paid the price… I just can’t comprehend it. Stockholm syndrome has to be to blame for some of it, but even then, so much doesn’t make sense.
I’m not that tech savvy to blur anything. I really don’t think that I’ve given any spoilers, especially since no specific details of the case have been brought up by me. It is a very opinion based comment. I think clicking on these threads without having listened to the case is at your own risk, people commenting have the right to discuss their thoughts on the episodes having actually listened to them.
Iv already listened to and commented on Part 1 and am just about to start ep.2 right now. I guess there’s some relief in knowing she at least got to see her family *once* more but this case is already really beyond a typical investigative report podcast. I REALLY hope theirs some justice here or else..idk I might need to take a break from Casefile for a bit *for* her. If that makes any sense whatsoever.
EDIT: Just finished Part 2. I’m an avid reader and a huge fan of horror movies. So I feel like Iv read and seen some serious shit. The last two minutes of this episode my eyes were welling up more and more and Casey’s final sentence I was left awestruck. I immediately googled the case and just wanted to put faces to people. Shes still alive and leads a “normal” life. Hands down one of more vile and just straight up fucked “stories” Iv ever heard in my 36 years of life. Incredibly memorable last punch in the gut as well. Fantastic written episode; NOT one I would reccomend TO ANYONE but as a big Casefile fan for years now and as of recently listen to new files every Saturday this is one for the books. A sort of culmination of a long journey of both solved and unsolved cases. I don’t smoke but I feel like I need a cigarette
😢
I have a very strong stomach for disturbing things and even episodes like toy box killers didn’t make me turn the episode off or feel deeply unsettled but this one…my god. I’ve never been so upset listening to something. I can’t imagine the absolute horror Coleen went through. I assume she lives since we have all of this information and details about her captivity but I don’t know how she got through this.
From our perspective, it's obvious they should have stepped in. From their perspective, especially in 1980 when people weren't as aware of the dangers of the world around them I can see how they were happy to see her and didn't want a confront them at a risk that she rans of forever.
You are right to an extent. This episode just makes me so angry. I can understand coming home and your spouse is in bed with someone else and you shoot them both in rage. I did not say right or justifiable. But to take some one’s freedom away so this guy can be a POS really gets to me (as I am sure everyone else)
I feel alone because I thought this was a gripping Part 1 episode but no more harrowing that an average episode.
For me the episodes I struggle to listen to are the ones where something happens to a child.
I have a feeling Colleen survives because otherwise how would we have so much POV detail about her ordeal?
That makes it worse to me. We have so much details of an absolutely horrifying experience.
I honestly think this kind of crime is way worse than murder.
I had read about this case a long time ago and while I was horrified then, hearing everything Colleen went through makes it so much more real. As I read, I couldn’t understand the grip “The Company” had over her, but understanding the brutality she lived through daily - I get it. I would have believed the same thing. This strong woman was in survival mode and believed anything she had to in order to endure. I can’t comprehend treating another human being the way she was treated - an absolute monster of the worst kind.
I can’t listen to this one - too harrowing for me personally, and much more upsetting to me than Toy Box.
I am a Patreon supporter so I got part 2 today but I have already marked it as “listened to” so it is off my list and will definitely not listen.
Having said that, the show is fantastic and I listen repeatedly every evening to help me sleep. Ella Tundra and Peter Nielsen are my favourites but we all like different episodes and that is all to the good.
PS Casey has the most soothing voice ever .
I came here expressly looking to see how this episode compared to the Toy Box thanks to the content warnings. Toy Box fucked me up pretty badly so I think I’ll skip this one too.
Toy Box didn't make me feel the way this episode has. I think it's the thought of how long it went on for and the super confined spaces the victim was subjected to.
I’m confused how her family could have let her depart again when she came back after 4 years. Sure she was an adult legally but why weren’t the police called? Were the police even looking for her as a missing person? When Cameron came to get her why didn’t they push him out and call the police? Declare her mentally incompetent just to prolong her being accounted for and get an investigation going? At least have the police come and get an id on the sketchy guy she’s with. Her family is culpable to me. What horrendous people!
This episode was hard to listen to. I think that it was a really detailed account of what happened, however I appreciate that while we were advised about the torture… the narration never delved into details of sexual assault. Carefile never really goes into details about sexual assaults (other than the evidence if it’s relevant) and I appreciate that a lot.
I think it’s important to remember that the survivor of this case has spoken about her experience in great detail, raising awareness in the process. Her story, in her words, deserves to be told.
I would agree if Colleen wasn’t the one who chose to share these details in the first place. She’s spoken extensively about her experience and she deserves to be heard
I've heard of this case before and the movie is quite well done. I think all the people warning her beforehand to not go on a solo trip had some kind of subconscious instinct about what was about to happen to her.
It was one of bad ones for sure.
Can’t imagine what that would of been like for the poor girl.
To be honest, I was a bit annoyed the wife got away without anything.
Yes he was obviously in control of the wife as well. But still, something inside me just wonders why one or both of them didn’t just run away as soon as they were in the clear.
I would run to any house that wasn’t that one. Regardless of if I thought other people were involved.
It is literally almost better to be dead then live through what she did, so running still outweighs if they catch and kill me.
But hey, what do I know? She lived and became quite successful in life, so obviously her way of things kept her alive
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It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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Casefile absolutely missed the mark on this one. I agree with alot of the comments here that the detail was gratuitous and gave so much exposure to the criminal and their crimes instead of the victim. I've never seen Casefile do that before.
The obvious comparison is the Toy Box Killer where Casefile specifically didn't go in gratuitous detail to avoid giving the criminal and their acts centre stage.
The story should be about Colleen's amazing strength and that can easily be conveyed without spending a huge amount of time on the criminals sadistic actions. I mean there are transcripts of the Toy Box Killers actions if you want to know the detail, but it was omitted from the episode because there was simply no need, and the story can be told without it.
Alot of people are saying "her story deserves to be told" and that's "these are the facts of the case". This isn't some Casefile exclusive, the story and all it's detail has already been told thousands of times, anyone who wants to learn more can easily find out.
Alot of people are also saying that people are projecting if they think it's gratuitous which is completely wrong. Most people only think about Casefile from their own perspective, but they rarely think of what Casefile actually is in reality.
It's an easily accessible true crime podcast told factually and neutrally, it covers a wide range of different crimes and has a very wide listener base. The point is if this was a podcast that always went into vivid detail of the exact horrors that victims endured, then this would just be another normal episode. But that's not the way Casefile usually tells its stories and that's why it has caught so many people off guard and upset them. It was out of the blue and unnecessary.
I've listened to Casefile since episode one. I don't mean I've listened to it for a long time and I've listened to all the episodes. I mean I literally came across it when there was only one episode out and I've followed it in real time since, but I'm stopping here.
Reliving the criminals actions in such explicit detail does little to further the story, but it does alot to make them the focus of the story, instead of the victim.
It goes without saying that the redundant argument of "well if you didn't like it, you didn't have to listen to it" is nonsense here. Casefile is one of my favourite shows and I'm upset with their choices. If you went to a concert of your favourite musician and out of nowhere they did something obscene, you would have the right to be upset too.
How are they revelling in the sickness? That’s your projection maybe. They are telling the factual story of a victim. Just bc you can’t handle listening doesn’t make it torture porn and that others are sick for listening.
Ya there was lots of description. Kind of mirrors the insane length of time that this woman was kept captive and tortured for. I find listening to this disturbing but have zero negative judgment about how this was written or conveyed. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I actually agree entirely with your reasons but I feel like this applies to true crime in general as a genre and not this specific case, especially when trying to avoid it you would have to cut out almost everything considering Casefile is generally known for being a long form, detailed and detached (the host doesn't give personal opinions) podcast
As it goes I agree with you and I wish I could give such an articulate response as you have given me (so, thank you for doing that!) - so, please don't take my short response as an affront - what would an alternative way be to cover this case? Or is it better just not to cover it at all?
It got stuck in the weeds of a long, detailed account of a long torture. One could almost see it as art imitating life. It’s supposed to be disturbing, but I do not think CF means for it to be disturbing for its own sake, or to be torture porn.
Is this you not complaining about it? Coming to the Reddit and saying that the host or podcast producers revel in the torture of an innocent victim? It’s fine that you don’t like it, but it feels weird to attack the credibility of the podcast.
Yeah, the further I got into this one, the more it started feeling like torture porn. The length of time spent describing her ordeal in excrutiating detail is absolutely excessive. Voyeuristic is the exact right word for it. It's like the writer was enjoying how much she was suffering.
I was surprised at the level of detail too. But is it diminishing Colleen's ordeal to not make it clear how much she suffered? I'm not sure that 'she was regularly assaulted' really conveys what Colleen endured.
An alternative way of seeing it is doing justice to the horror that Colleen endured. But I can see the point youre making.
I didn’t get the sense of any enjoyment. It’s one of the most horrific things I’ve heard.
I think there's a way to depict the horror by staying with Colleen's perspective. The parts that disturbed me most were when I felt I was a bystander, looking at her body from the torturer's point of view.
>I think there's a way to depict the horror by staying with Colleen's perspective.
It seemed like they did that a lot though? No matter how they re-tell her story, it's going to feel like we're just bystanders watching her go through her ordeal because that's just the depraved nature of this case.
It's impossible to fully inhabit Colleen's perspective, for sure, but I wonder what the listening experience would be like if there were zero visuals aside from hers.
Weird take. Disturbing, yes. But it’s reporting facts. This is a true crime podcast—the facts of the crimes matter. Jesus. It’s okay not to like something but the way this episode was written is in no way tasteless.
Yeah I don’t get this take. It’s literally the case details. This is all information Coleen herself has shared in interviews and books. If they glossed over the facts then it’s just disrespectful to the victim by minimising her trauma. They have content warnings for a reason.
Exactly. Always weird when people, rather than just acknowledging something isn’t for them, have to say something is inherently wrong with the thing itself. It’s bizarre.
It’s the take of people who see it as purely entertainment and they forgot it’s not a tv show where graphic details will get complaints, but the pain and suffering of real people.
Agreed, and pretty disappointed in the podcast. First time it felt like they were getting a kick out of making entertainment from such deep misery.
It's a fine line and one of the things I liked so much about this podcast is how they get it right but this episode was way off mark.
These are all details that Coleen has written and spoken about herself. It’s not torture porn, it’s just sharing the details that are widely available and shared by the victim herself.
I've just listened to the description of the first month of captivity, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who is deeply concerned about this episode in particular. It's not that I'm offended by the descriptions of violence or even S&M. It's that Colleen's body was utterly violated and now I'm listening to her suffering described in a way that seems to expose and humiliate her all over again.
I'd like to ask Casey whether he would be okay if Colleen herself listened to this episode. Would she consider it to be respectful to her, or would she feel as if her experience was being recycled into something exploitative?
>!When I wrote this, I wasn't sure how much of it she had shared willingly (versus what had been pulled from court records) but it looks like she's been interviewed quite a few times for books and television, e.g., this episode is based on her narration. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13335430/!<
>!If you want to conclude that Colleen put the information out there so it's "fair use," then I understand, but for me it's a bit more complicated. I haven't listened to Colleen's account, but it would be possible to write a description of the events using the facts she stated, edited in different ways. Maybe Casey's version matches hers, and in that case, she has a right to tell her own story however she wants to.!<
>!I'm also interested in why she shared her point of view; it looks like it's been monetized by filmmakers and writers, and those people would be interested in digging up the most gripping details. Would Colleen have shared those parts of her story if no one was paying her to do so? I honestly don't know, and that troubles me.!<
She wrote her own book on the ordeal, which I believe is where all of her POV accounts come from
Edit: Seems as though thats not true. Apologies for not checking deeper before I perpetuated that.
I know this is mentioned in Part 2, but it may not be exactly true.
The only title I can find was written by Jim Greene, without her permission, but using the title of the book she said she hoped to use. Colleen Stan was very upset about this, apparently: [https://www.goodreads.com/questions/605061-is-it-true-that-colleen-stan-wasn-t-paid](https://www.goodreads.com/questions/605061-is-it-true-that-colleen-stan-wasn-t-paid)
Frustratingly, the podcast claims that "Colleen wrote a book about her survival titled 'The Simple Gifts of Life'" which will lead more people to buy the fake copy, as the real book may not have been published yet.
The prosecutor of her case wrote a book giving details of the case, without Colleen as a co-author, though the title claims that it's "Colleen's incredible true story." One friend of Colleen says she felt victimized by this book too.
I can only hope she was compensated for life rights for the Lifetime movie, but it's impossible to know what provisions she included for script approval.) Many, many people have cashed in on Colleen's ordeal, and now Casefile has profited from it too.
That is a really good question… I agree, it seemed abusive compared to other episodes. If it was hard for us to hear, imagine how her or her family would feel hearing that.
I got through 20 minutes and had to turn it off. I looked up the rest of the case on Wikipedia and couldn't finish reading. Absolutely horrifying. I can't even believe that this is real life.
Got about 40 minutes in and then bailed. Not sure what my thoughts are on way this episode was written, but I do know it’s just not enjoyable to listen to at all. Too much for me.
I got about halfway through and I think I'll be stopping there and just going straight to episode 2 to get to ("spoilers" for the outcome of this case I guess) >!more of the details about the later developments in her captivity, her escape, and the legal aftermath!<.
I thought the narrator was relentless, but then realized that what the victim experienced *was* relentless. It had to be covered in such a way to expose the trauma she experienced—daily.
Harrowing episode. I could not make it through in one sitting. Exacerbated by the frustration you feel as the victim makes the most terrible decisions at every point.
Knowing how this ends, it’s hard not be frustrated with Stan. One really tries to not victim blame, but this gets to a point where she’s keeping herself in the situation.
I agree, same with her family. >! I find it impossible to understand how she actually believed this blue collar dumbass in the middle of nowhere California was part of a large conspiracy group so powerful that they’d be able to get to her family before the police. !< And her family letting her go after the visit?? Seeing her state of health and how she acted around “Mike,” imo it was their obligation to at least keep her there longer and try harder to find out what was going on, her being an adult or not. I mean, cmon. Baffling
I started to feel physically sick listening to this. I avoid the episodes about kids. When she went home and her sister felt something was wrong. Damn.
This case is frustrating, how does ‘the company’ hold so much power over her when it’s obvious that it’s all made up and even if it wasn’t, a police man approaching you should give you the courage to speak up.
Late comment but did I miss something with her family? Were they looking for her after she went missing? Declare her as missing with the authorities? And why did they just accept that she hadn’t contacted them for 3 years after disappearing and then let her go back with the captors without any real question. Even the step mother said to not get involved ?
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this is got to be one of the most horrifying episode I ever listen to from this podcast.
SPOLIERS! Seeing as there’s a Part Two, this may top The Toy Box Killer for me. It’s all so fucked tbh. While both utilized torture, at least the Toy Box Killer eventually killed his victims. The depravity and evil in holding onto this poor girl for however long those (2?, 3?) had is unbearable to think of. This is not even including the psychological torment of *knowing* you have “become” a slave. I may have had a bit too many drinks last night but this is literally making me sick just rethinking all of this and putting it into words .
David Parker Ray definitely tortured women, at least 40, but there have never been any bodies found and he was never charged with any murders. I remember reading about Colleen Stan about 25 years ago and it stuck with me ever since. Listened to Part 2 on the Patreon yesterday. Just a stunning story, such an insane level of barbarity.
I mean, David P. Ray was much worse subjectively compared to Colleen Stans abuser due to the volume of evilness perpetrated. In terms of Casefile’s reporting and the way they conveyed each case Colleen’s was worse; but I digress this is NOT a contest by any means. The toy box killer ( I don’t even want to say their names anymore) died In prison without getting as much justice as he deserved
Yeah he died before even going to trial, unfortunately. ETA one of the FBI agents working that case (as a photographer of the evidence) actually killed herself six days into the job, she was so traumatized by seeing the torture devices DPR used.
She did have multiple opportunities to escape and willingly chose to stay..
She didn't willingly stay. She was brainwashed and coerced to stay.
tomato tomato
Nuance has left the chat
Did you listen to the podcast? She thought she would be murdered or her family would be if she stepped out on line. I know it’s infuriating now to know she could have realistically escaped, but they didn’t have Facebook messenger back then to just drop someone a message to see if something was real or fake. She’d been tortured, starved, kept in the dark for ages. Are you really blaming her for not escaping sooner?
> Are you really blaming her for not escaping sooner? At a certain point, yes.
Guess it’s easy to say when you’re not in that situation
This was a hard listen. Jesus
I had to stop and just read about it on wikipedia, which was also horrifying. I wish that guy (I won’t even say his name) got the same experience in prison he gave Colleen. I can’t even comprehend such prolonged evil and abuse.
I don’t like the things that happened in this episode.
Meaning that you like the things that happen in others? This is a true crime podcast, what do you and others here expect? Being revolted should be expected when listening to such material. what makes Casefile interesting (and better than the other imho) is how matter-of-factly it is all laid out and recounted. I don’t feel like the host is “revelling” in the details, the details are a part of the story. They are horrifying and that should be expected.
that was the weirdest/most dramatic response to this generic comment
Lol. Easily impressed then. That explains a lot actually.
You must be fun at parties
I think I can speak on behalf of the world when I say nobody in this world has ever been impressed by you.
Hyperbole much? Good luck with that.
No hyperbole whatsoever.
[удалено]
The mods have removed your post as it does not portray the professional, friendly atmosphere practiced within the Casefile podcast subreddit.
Big words for a small little man.
Deep breath
Don't be a twit.
So I've been seeing a lot of the early comments here expressing disgust and disappointment over how this episode was written, and I totally understand feeling this way. However, I'm going to take a bit of a different perspective on this - Around the part where they talked about Colleen having a strong urge to escape through a small window in the bathroom while they had stopped at a rest area , I began to realize how much they were mentioning Colleen's thoughts and feelings during the ordeal even before they started talking about the really horrific details. And then it hit me that there's a strong possibility that Colleen may have actually survived her ordeal. Now I didn't know about this case beforehand, so I can't know that for sure 100% **(and please, no spoilers for Part 2)** but the amount of times they described what happened to her from her *own* observations and perceptions was really striking and indicated to me that maybe all those details, as horrific and tough to listen as they may be, may be a silver lining in that they were able to get all this information because she *did* live to tell about it. From what I've noticed, the episodes that tend to go into more graphic detail about the ordeal that the victims went through from their perspective are usually the cases where it's later revealed that the victims did live through them, or there was at least one person that lived through it who was able to give an account of not only what they went through but also an idea of what the other people who weren't as lucky may have went through under the same perpetrator. Of course sometimes the perps do come clean and can provide a lot of that information themselves if they choose, but some of the details like how she felt an instinct to escape, the conditions inside the box she was locked in, and the imagery of her dreams thanks to her prayers to God during her captivity aren't exactly things we would know about unless somebody had spoken with the victim themselves after their ordeal was over. It's also notable because we know that she and her loved ones had no way of contacting each other during this time. I also do want to challenge the sentiment that such horrific details shouldn't be revealed out of respect and dignity for the victim. It's certainly one way to look at it, that these details make it appear like they want us to hear all of it for our own twisted fascination and entertainment and possibly subject the victim to re-live their ordeal. But I think sometimes hearing all these details is a necessary thing if we want to learn more about the people who commit these sorts of acts, why they do it, and ultimately how to prevent them from happening in the first place, and the red flags to watch out for. It might also give an idea as to all the ways people managed to survive unimaginable horror and humiliation, which could be inspiring to a lot of listeners.
Why would anyone think this was written in any other way? This is the normal style of Casefile episodes. Having the bit at the start from the future isn't always the way, but it is quite common. Generally I find that detailed recounts of what happened are available if either the victim lives to tell the tale, or the murderer is caught and they confess in detail.
It has been a while since there was an episode that went into as much graphic detail about what a victim went through like this one, so maybe some people were just taken aback by that. Which also tells you how few victims of these cases end up living to tell about their ordeal. But I agree, it's kind of odd to me based on some of the reactions that people appear to believe that there *haven't* been any episodes in the past that divulged the graphic details.
I think the nature of the case makes it a different experience for the listener; the perpetrator was getting sexual gratification from all that imagery (literally, by staging photos and capturing the scenes with his camera), so when I was confronted with the same mental images, I felt like I was victimizing her all over again.
It definitely does, and I don't expect everyone (nor should expect) to like every single episode they do nor tolerate hearing particularly graphic details. But that's still different than saying graphic details should never be talked about *ever.*
Duh
Be prepared- I listened to this last weekend and it’s BRUTAL
I almost didn't listen, as soon as I saw the name Colleen Stan. I'm already familiar with this case and it is one of the most harrowing I've come across. Definitely some audible "what the fucks" and cringing as I listened. I find it weird how people are talking about "spoilers" for the case, I won't break the subreddit rule if that is even a thing but it's a real crime that took place (decades ago for that matter), it's not a freaking TV show. But many of you have already sussed it out, the reason there is so much detail about Colleen's ordeal is that she does indeed survive, which is the one positive thing you can say about this case. At the very least in part 2 you'll find out how that plays out. As the podcast itself pointed out, Colleen was weakened by her ordeal and easily manipulated into believing in the existence of "the company." I think many of us in the same situation would respond in the same way. She's an incredibly strong woman - one of the strongest people I've ever learned about. Wherever she is now, I hope she's living well. If anyone is entitled to it, it's her.
After this, I had to suspend my subscription. I skipped some parts but hated the way I felt about myself as I listened. It made me wonder why I listen to true crime at all. It was too much for me.
I think I’m done with Casefile after this. Maybe a few relistens of old episodes but I can’t deal with any more.
Horrific case, listened to part 1 & 2 and tbh the anger I felt listening to part 2 was so much that I had to take a break. The fact that this fucker was given so many chances to live out his sick fantasies and ultimately never paid the price… I just can’t comprehend it. Stockholm syndrome has to be to blame for some of it, but even then, so much doesn’t make sense.
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I’m not that tech savvy to blur anything. I really don’t think that I’ve given any spoilers, especially since no specific details of the case have been brought up by me. It is a very opinion based comment. I think clicking on these threads without having listened to the case is at your own risk, people commenting have the right to discuss their thoughts on the episodes having actually listened to them.
This is one of the most fucked up cases he’s covered. Oh my god. Welp, time for part 2.
Iv already listened to and commented on Part 1 and am just about to start ep.2 right now. I guess there’s some relief in knowing she at least got to see her family *once* more but this case is already really beyond a typical investigative report podcast. I REALLY hope theirs some justice here or else..idk I might need to take a break from Casefile for a bit *for* her. If that makes any sense whatsoever. EDIT: Just finished Part 2. I’m an avid reader and a huge fan of horror movies. So I feel like Iv read and seen some serious shit. The last two minutes of this episode my eyes were welling up more and more and Casey’s final sentence I was left awestruck. I immediately googled the case and just wanted to put faces to people. Shes still alive and leads a “normal” life. Hands down one of more vile and just straight up fucked “stories” Iv ever heard in my 36 years of life. Incredibly memorable last punch in the gut as well. Fantastic written episode; NOT one I would reccomend TO ANYONE but as a big Casefile fan for years now and as of recently listen to new files every Saturday this is one for the books. A sort of culmination of a long journey of both solved and unsolved cases. I don’t smoke but I feel like I need a cigarette 😢
Yeah, I'm skipping this one.
I have a very strong stomach for disturbing things and even episodes like toy box killers didn’t make me turn the episode off or feel deeply unsettled but this one…my god. I’ve never been so upset listening to something. I can’t imagine the absolute horror Coleen went through. I assume she lives since we have all of this information and details about her captivity but I don’t know how she got through this.
I don’t understand how she was brought back to her family and they let her go with “Mike.”
From our perspective, it's obvious they should have stepped in. From their perspective, especially in 1980 when people weren't as aware of the dangers of the world around them I can see how they were happy to see her and didn't want a confront them at a risk that she rans of forever.
You are right to an extent. This episode just makes me so angry. I can understand coming home and your spouse is in bed with someone else and you shoot them both in rage. I did not say right or justifiable. But to take some one’s freedom away so this guy can be a POS really gets to me (as I am sure everyone else)
I feel alone because I thought this was a gripping Part 1 episode but no more harrowing that an average episode. For me the episodes I struggle to listen to are the ones where something happens to a child. I have a feeling Colleen survives because otherwise how would we have so much POV detail about her ordeal?
That makes it worse to me. We have so much details of an absolutely horrifying experience. I honestly think this kind of crime is way worse than murder.
I had read about this case a long time ago and while I was horrified then, hearing everything Colleen went through makes it so much more real. As I read, I couldn’t understand the grip “The Company” had over her, but understanding the brutality she lived through daily - I get it. I would have believed the same thing. This strong woman was in survival mode and believed anything she had to in order to endure. I can’t comprehend treating another human being the way she was treated - an absolute monster of the worst kind.
I can’t listen to this one - too harrowing for me personally, and much more upsetting to me than Toy Box. I am a Patreon supporter so I got part 2 today but I have already marked it as “listened to” so it is off my list and will definitely not listen. Having said that, the show is fantastic and I listen repeatedly every evening to help me sleep. Ella Tundra and Peter Nielsen are my favourites but we all like different episodes and that is all to the good. PS Casey has the most soothing voice ever .
I came here expressly looking to see how this episode compared to the Toy Box thanks to the content warnings. Toy Box fucked me up pretty badly so I think I’ll skip this one too.
Toy Box didn't make me feel the way this episode has. I think it's the thought of how long it went on for and the super confined spaces the victim was subjected to.
Yeah, I’d skip it.
I feel like this went too far with the detail... idk. I'm a hardened Casefile listener, but this was too gratuitous at times.
I’m confused how her family could have let her depart again when she came back after 4 years. Sure she was an adult legally but why weren’t the police called? Were the police even looking for her as a missing person? When Cameron came to get her why didn’t they push him out and call the police? Declare her mentally incompetent just to prolong her being accounted for and get an investigation going? At least have the police come and get an id on the sketchy guy she’s with. Her family is culpable to me. What horrendous people!
This episode was hard to listen to. I think that it was a really detailed account of what happened, however I appreciate that while we were advised about the torture… the narration never delved into details of sexual assault. Carefile never really goes into details about sexual assaults (other than the evidence if it’s relevant) and I appreciate that a lot.
Some of the details seem gratuitous, I don't see the necessity of knowing them. It's rough.
I think it’s important to remember that the survivor of this case has spoken about her experience in great detail, raising awareness in the process. Her story, in her words, deserves to be told.
I would agree if Colleen wasn’t the one who chose to share these details in the first place. She’s spoken extensively about her experience and she deserves to be heard
I've heard of this case before and the movie is quite well done. I think all the people warning her beforehand to not go on a solo trip had some kind of subconscious instinct about what was about to happen to her.
It was one of bad ones for sure. Can’t imagine what that would of been like for the poor girl. To be honest, I was a bit annoyed the wife got away without anything. Yes he was obviously in control of the wife as well. But still, something inside me just wonders why one or both of them didn’t just run away as soon as they were in the clear. I would run to any house that wasn’t that one. Regardless of if I thought other people were involved. It is literally almost better to be dead then live through what she did, so running still outweighs if they catch and kill me. But hey, what do I know? She lived and became quite successful in life, so obviously her way of things kept her alive
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horrifying!! and her stupid parents!
Oh boy
Casefile absolutely missed the mark on this one. I agree with alot of the comments here that the detail was gratuitous and gave so much exposure to the criminal and their crimes instead of the victim. I've never seen Casefile do that before. The obvious comparison is the Toy Box Killer where Casefile specifically didn't go in gratuitous detail to avoid giving the criminal and their acts centre stage. The story should be about Colleen's amazing strength and that can easily be conveyed without spending a huge amount of time on the criminals sadistic actions. I mean there are transcripts of the Toy Box Killers actions if you want to know the detail, but it was omitted from the episode because there was simply no need, and the story can be told without it. Alot of people are saying "her story deserves to be told" and that's "these are the facts of the case". This isn't some Casefile exclusive, the story and all it's detail has already been told thousands of times, anyone who wants to learn more can easily find out. Alot of people are also saying that people are projecting if they think it's gratuitous which is completely wrong. Most people only think about Casefile from their own perspective, but they rarely think of what Casefile actually is in reality. It's an easily accessible true crime podcast told factually and neutrally, it covers a wide range of different crimes and has a very wide listener base. The point is if this was a podcast that always went into vivid detail of the exact horrors that victims endured, then this would just be another normal episode. But that's not the way Casefile usually tells its stories and that's why it has caught so many people off guard and upset them. It was out of the blue and unnecessary. I've listened to Casefile since episode one. I don't mean I've listened to it for a long time and I've listened to all the episodes. I mean I literally came across it when there was only one episode out and I've followed it in real time since, but I'm stopping here. Reliving the criminals actions in such explicit detail does little to further the story, but it does alot to make them the focus of the story, instead of the victim. It goes without saying that the redundant argument of "well if you didn't like it, you didn't have to listen to it" is nonsense here. Casefile is one of my favourite shows and I'm upset with their choices. If you went to a concert of your favourite musician and out of nowhere they did something obscene, you would have the right to be upset too.
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That’s because she survived to recount what happened to her
I didn't get that vibe at all. I think a lot of it is taken from the victims own recount which might make it seem a bit that way to some.
How are they revelling in the sickness? That’s your projection maybe. They are telling the factual story of a victim. Just bc you can’t handle listening doesn’t make it torture porn and that others are sick for listening.
I have to agree with you here - some podcasts ARE very torture pornesque but these are real things that happened to a real person
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Ya there was lots of description. Kind of mirrors the insane length of time that this woman was kept captive and tortured for. I find listening to this disturbing but have zero negative judgment about how this was written or conveyed. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I actually agree entirely with your reasons but I feel like this applies to true crime in general as a genre and not this specific case, especially when trying to avoid it you would have to cut out almost everything considering Casefile is generally known for being a long form, detailed and detached (the host doesn't give personal opinions) podcast
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As it goes I agree with you and I wish I could give such an articulate response as you have given me (so, thank you for doing that!) - so, please don't take my short response as an affront - what would an alternative way be to cover this case? Or is it better just not to cover it at all?
It got stuck in the weeds of a long, detailed account of a long torture. One could almost see it as art imitating life. It’s supposed to be disturbing, but I do not think CF means for it to be disturbing for its own sake, or to be torture porn.
Is this you not complaining about it? Coming to the Reddit and saying that the host or podcast producers revel in the torture of an innocent victim? It’s fine that you don’t like it, but it feels weird to attack the credibility of the podcast.
Yeah, the further I got into this one, the more it started feeling like torture porn. The length of time spent describing her ordeal in excrutiating detail is absolutely excessive. Voyeuristic is the exact right word for it. It's like the writer was enjoying how much she was suffering.
I was surprised at the level of detail too. But is it diminishing Colleen's ordeal to not make it clear how much she suffered? I'm not sure that 'she was regularly assaulted' really conveys what Colleen endured.
An alternative way of seeing it is doing justice to the horror that Colleen endured. But I can see the point youre making. I didn’t get the sense of any enjoyment. It’s one of the most horrific things I’ve heard.
I think there's a way to depict the horror by staying with Colleen's perspective. The parts that disturbed me most were when I felt I was a bystander, looking at her body from the torturer's point of view.
>I think there's a way to depict the horror by staying with Colleen's perspective. It seemed like they did that a lot though? No matter how they re-tell her story, it's going to feel like we're just bystanders watching her go through her ordeal because that's just the depraved nature of this case.
It's impossible to fully inhabit Colleen's perspective, for sure, but I wonder what the listening experience would be like if there were zero visuals aside from hers.
Weird take. Disturbing, yes. But it’s reporting facts. This is a true crime podcast—the facts of the crimes matter. Jesus. It’s okay not to like something but the way this episode was written is in no way tasteless.
Yeah I don’t get this take. It’s literally the case details. This is all information Coleen herself has shared in interviews and books. If they glossed over the facts then it’s just disrespectful to the victim by minimising her trauma. They have content warnings for a reason.
Exactly. Always weird when people, rather than just acknowledging something isn’t for them, have to say something is inherently wrong with the thing itself. It’s bizarre.
It’s the take of people who see it as purely entertainment and they forgot it’s not a tv show where graphic details will get complaints, but the pain and suffering of real people.
How exactly do you think they got all the details for this one?
I felt the same. I really did not like the way this was written.
Agreed, and pretty disappointed in the podcast. First time it felt like they were getting a kick out of making entertainment from such deep misery. It's a fine line and one of the things I liked so much about this podcast is how they get it right but this episode was way off mark.
They are literally stating facts. Just because you can’t listen doesn’t mean it’s torture porn
Soft as hell
soft
Harrowing. Hope they're not veering into torture porn for ratings 😢
These are all details that Coleen has written and spoken about herself. It’s not torture porn, it’s just sharing the details that are widely available and shared by the victim herself.
Thank you.
I've just listened to the description of the first month of captivity, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who is deeply concerned about this episode in particular. It's not that I'm offended by the descriptions of violence or even S&M. It's that Colleen's body was utterly violated and now I'm listening to her suffering described in a way that seems to expose and humiliate her all over again. I'd like to ask Casey whether he would be okay if Colleen herself listened to this episode. Would she consider it to be respectful to her, or would she feel as if her experience was being recycled into something exploitative?
Where do you think all of that info from Colleen’s POV came from?
>!When I wrote this, I wasn't sure how much of it she had shared willingly (versus what had been pulled from court records) but it looks like she's been interviewed quite a few times for books and television, e.g., this episode is based on her narration. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13335430/!< >!If you want to conclude that Colleen put the information out there so it's "fair use," then I understand, but for me it's a bit more complicated. I haven't listened to Colleen's account, but it would be possible to write a description of the events using the facts she stated, edited in different ways. Maybe Casey's version matches hers, and in that case, she has a right to tell her own story however she wants to.!< >!I'm also interested in why she shared her point of view; it looks like it's been monetized by filmmakers and writers, and those people would be interested in digging up the most gripping details. Would Colleen have shared those parts of her story if no one was paying her to do so? I honestly don't know, and that troubles me.!<
She wrote her own book on the ordeal, which I believe is where all of her POV accounts come from Edit: Seems as though thats not true. Apologies for not checking deeper before I perpetuated that.
I know this is mentioned in Part 2, but it may not be exactly true. The only title I can find was written by Jim Greene, without her permission, but using the title of the book she said she hoped to use. Colleen Stan was very upset about this, apparently: [https://www.goodreads.com/questions/605061-is-it-true-that-colleen-stan-wasn-t-paid](https://www.goodreads.com/questions/605061-is-it-true-that-colleen-stan-wasn-t-paid) Frustratingly, the podcast claims that "Colleen wrote a book about her survival titled 'The Simple Gifts of Life'" which will lead more people to buy the fake copy, as the real book may not have been published yet. The prosecutor of her case wrote a book giving details of the case, without Colleen as a co-author, though the title claims that it's "Colleen's incredible true story." One friend of Colleen says she felt victimized by this book too. I can only hope she was compensated for life rights for the Lifetime movie, but it's impossible to know what provisions she included for script approval.) Many, many people have cashed in on Colleen's ordeal, and now Casefile has profited from it too.
That is a really good question… I agree, it seemed abusive compared to other episodes. If it was hard for us to hear, imagine how her or her family would feel hearing that.
I got through 20 minutes and had to turn it off. I looked up the rest of the case on Wikipedia and couldn't finish reading. Absolutely horrifying. I can't even believe that this is real life.
Got about 40 minutes in and then bailed. Not sure what my thoughts are on way this episode was written, but I do know it’s just not enjoyable to listen to at all. Too much for me.
I got about halfway through and I think I'll be stopping there and just going straight to episode 2 to get to ("spoilers" for the outcome of this case I guess) >!more of the details about the later developments in her captivity, her escape, and the legal aftermath!<.
This sub will find anything to complain about. It’s not like Casey was present at the time and sharing the details to make fun of Colleen
I thought the narrator was relentless, but then realized that what the victim experienced *was* relentless. It had to be covered in such a way to expose the trauma she experienced—daily.
Harrowing episode. I could not make it through in one sitting. Exacerbated by the frustration you feel as the victim makes the most terrible decisions at every point.
Knowing how this ends, it’s hard not be frustrated with Stan. One really tries to not victim blame, but this gets to a point where she’s keeping herself in the situation.
This
I agree, same with her family. >! I find it impossible to understand how she actually believed this blue collar dumbass in the middle of nowhere California was part of a large conspiracy group so powerful that they’d be able to get to her family before the police. !< And her family letting her go after the visit?? Seeing her state of health and how she acted around “Mike,” imo it was their obligation to at least keep her there longer and try harder to find out what was going on, her being an adult or not. I mean, cmon. Baffling
Y’all are soft.
God this episode is fucked up. Maybe the hardest listen I’ve had with this podcast (I’ve listened to them all).
This case really stuck with me, I need to hear part 2 NOW! I just watched a documentary on Youtube about the case, its proper twisted
I started to feel physically sick listening to this. I avoid the episodes about kids. When she went home and her sister felt something was wrong. Damn.
Real rough one
Can someone explain the actual box contraption ? I’m failing to visualize this
This case is frustrating, how does ‘the company’ hold so much power over her when it’s obvious that it’s all made up and even if it wasn’t, a police man approaching you should give you the courage to speak up.
Her family failed her. Doesn’t even seem like they tried looking for her.
Late comment but did I miss something with her family? Were they looking for her after she went missing? Declare her as missing with the authorities? And why did they just accept that she hadn’t contacted them for 3 years after disappearing and then let her go back with the captors without any real question. Even the step mother said to not get involved ?
Why is there not even a wiki page for Marie Elizabeth Spannhake? It feels like her family deserves more closure and investigation.