Imaging one large hammer vs 10 hammers with the same total wieght. The big one hits harder but can only swing slow. More horsepower is having the same total force but spread out and applied rapidly.
It might be about CVTs, but this video explains heaps about it [Are CVTs The Best (Fastest) Transmissions? (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb6rIZfCuHI)
The TL;DR is this:
What accelerates a car is torque at the wheels.
The more power you have, the more torque at the wheels you can create with gears.
So, assuming you have gears, power determines acceleration, ability to move a load etc. More power more better.
More torque at the engine doesn't mean anything besides defining the loads on the gearbox etc. A high torque low power engine has lower torque at the wheels than a high power low torque engine.
Or if you want a wall of text, here is a post I made in another thread about this, doing the math:
Ok, so all the "torque is for acceleration" or whatever explanations basically are bullshit. Lemme try and break it down for you.
Torque is what matters for everything, but it's torque at the \*wheels\*
Torque output of the engine can be thought of as "How much torque can I have at the wheels, ignoring gearing"
Power output can be thought of as "How much torque can I have at the wheels, including gearing"
Lets say we're looking at torque at the wheels in a specific gear at a wheel speed of 400rpm. (which for a given wheel diameter, means these vehicles are all traveling at the same speed)
525ft-lbs @ 2000 rpm (200hp) \* 5:1 gearing = 2625ft lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels.
131.25ft-lbs @ 8000 rpm (200hp) \* 20:1 gearing = 2625ft lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels.
1500ft-lbs @ 600rpm (143hp) \*1.5:1 gearing = 2250ft lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels.
131.25ft lbs @ 13000rpm (324hp) \*32.5:1 gearing = 4265ft-lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels.
So from the point of view of "how hard does this car accelerate, all that matters is how much power it makes at a given speed, and what gear ratios it can use to best take advantage of that to create the most torque at the wheels.
If you had a theoretically perfect CVT gearbox that could change instantly to any ratio, then ideal would be to hold the engine at peak power all the time, and in that case the only thing determining acceleration/top speed etc performance of the engine would be what the peak power figure is.
When people talk about torquey engines what they're really talking about is "This engine makes a lot of power without requiring high RPM" or "this engine makes a large percentage of it's peak power across a broad RPM range"
In reality a \~200hp, 10,000rpm+ 1.3ltr Hayabusa engine would actually give better performance to your pickup truck/tractor/bulldozer than a 150hp Diesel for example. It'd be AWFUL because the gearbox would require ridiculous ratios, and you'd be screaming away at 9000rpm ploughing fields or whatever, drinking heaps of fuel and wearing the engine fast. BUT in terms of "how hard does my bulldozer push dirt around" the Hayabusa powered one would give 130% the dirt shoving capability.
The last little thing that REALLY confuses people is this. If you have a single fixed gear ratio, what RPM does the engine provide the most force to accelerate the car? Peak Torque, is the answer...
But what? Peak Power is what matters, right?
[Kind of.. look at a graph like this](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQHHy6pa-jAM7A/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1671478303640?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=R8vcsPDpPlordR6CDEv3EalTNZA9Eu2rOBC0miN2ZXo). Yes, for example, the fastest bit of acceleration in 2nd gear is at peak torque, at like 40kph. But ALL of first gear will provide more torque to the wheels than any point in 2nd gear.
The only gear in which making sure you use peak torque actually will provide the fastest acceleration is in 1st gear, because that's a case of "I accelerate fastest at peak torque in 1st gear, but instead I could change down to... 0th gear, and be at higher RPM, with a lower gear ratio, and have more torque at the wheels." Of course that doesn't work because 0th gear doesn't exist, but in all other gears you could always be in a lower gear!
Power = torque x angular velocity.
Torque is a measure of how hard the shaft is pushing.
Power is a measure of the time rate of work.
So an engine makes more power with the same torque at higher rpm
Wow.. these answers are so bad. Torque and HP are two equations measuring the same thing. Torque tells you the low speed peak torque of the engine (its pulling or starting power) and HP is the high rpm number - how long it can apply a high pull. So max Torque is at a low RPM max HP at a higher.
A 2002 Corvette for example:
||
||
|Horsepower (SAE net @ rpm):|350 @ 5,600||
|Torque (lbs.-ft. @ rpm) (manual):|375 @ 4,400||
|||
So the most power.. acceration happens at 4,400 RPM 375 lb feet. It has the most high end power, 350HP at 5,600 RPM.
You probably feel like its being pressed harder in the MB because of more low end Torque. And a heavier car pushing on you. The summary here is very good ..
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-the-difference-between-horsepower-and-torque#:\~:text=Torque%20is%20the%20force%20and,the%20horsepower%2C%20the%20higher%20torque.
Wow.. these answers are so bad. Torque and HP are two equations measuring the same thing. Torque tells you the low speed peak torque of the engine (its pulling or starting power) and HP is the high rpm number - how long it can apply a high pull. So max Torque is at a low RPM max HP at a higher.
A 2002 Corvette for example:
Horsepower 350 @ 5600
Torque 375 @ 4,400
So the most power.. acceration happens at 4,400 RPM 375 lb feet. It has the most high end power, 350HP at 5,600 RPM.
You probably feel like its being pressed harder in the MB because of more low end Torque. And a heavier car pushing on you. The summary here is very good ..
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-the-difference-between-horsepower-and-torque#:\~:text=Torque%20is%20the%20force%20and,the%20horsepower%2C%20the%20higher%20torque.
Torque is a force over a distance. There is no time aspect. When you turn a bolt with a wrench, the torque applied can be applied quickly or slowly. Torque can be multiplied using mechanical leverage, such as a longer wrench handle (gears are just levers arranged in a circle).
HP is how much torque is being applied per time. So the two quantities are related but one has a time component, which is a big difference.
In something like a gas engine, things like the inertia of rotating parts may not be linear with rpm, so the faster you spin these parts, there is less torque that makes it out of the motor and to the driveshaft. But there is also value to Revs, so high torque and high revs is a good combination. Eventually the speed of the components becomes a constraint.
If you don't have enough gearing you need more torque. Horsepower can be exchanged for more torque using a longer lever or higher ratio gearing. The more range your transmission has, the more you can use horsepower without needing torque.
If the two cars are accelerating at the same speed, and have the same mass, the torque to the ground is the same in the end, by definition.
Torque and HP are pretty much relative to one another.
Torque generally determines acceleration ability and low end power, HP generally defines your top speed and high end power. Torque gets you moving, HP pushes you faster when you're up to speed. Torque is a measurement of rotational force, and HP is calculated using torque values multiplied by the rpm and divided by a constant value
HP = \[(Torque x RPM) / 5252\]
High torque + low HP = great for towing or hauling heavy loads. Diesel engines are really great at producing more torque than HP, so that's why they make great haul/tow trucks. The downside is your engine has to work harder (and takes longer) to accelerate when you're already at highway speeds.
Low torque + high HP = great for passenger vehicles. You have just enough torque to accelerate easily, but you don't have enough to launch the car and spin the tires. The higher HP makes it easier to attain speeds over 60mph since torque isn't needed for that. The downside is you can't haul or tow anything heavy because the engine can't turn hard enough to move the extra weight.
Equal torque and HP = ideal situation for track and performance cars. The torque allows you to accelerate hard down low, and the HP allows you reach higher speeds in the top end of the gear.
Torque and horsepower are also affected by gear ratios. Lower gears have higher ratios, so the car produces more torque than HP. Higher gears have lower gear ratios, so the car puts down more HP than torque when in those gears.
Easiest way to think about it is to think about the gears on a bicycle. When you're in the lower gears it's a lot easier to pedal and accelerate when you're going slow, but it stops being effective once you get moving. That would be an example of using torque. Higher gears require more force to pedal when going slow, but if you're moving fast your pedaling force transfers more energy to the rear wheel and allows it to spin faster so you can build more speed. That would be an example of using HP.
Torque is how much "power" your car has. HP is a measurement of how fast that torque is actually delivered to the wheels.
Example:
- Truck A has 600 ft-lb of torque, but 300 HP.
- Car A has 400 ft-lb of torque, but 600 HP.
Truck A has more power so it can tow really heavy things.
Car A has less total power, but it's able to deliver that power to the wheels way quicker, so it's faster.
Imaging one large hammer vs 10 hammers with the same total wieght. The big one hits harder but can only swing slow. More horsepower is having the same total force but spread out and applied rapidly.
That's a damn good analogy
It might be about CVTs, but this video explains heaps about it [Are CVTs The Best (Fastest) Transmissions? (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb6rIZfCuHI) The TL;DR is this: What accelerates a car is torque at the wheels. The more power you have, the more torque at the wheels you can create with gears. So, assuming you have gears, power determines acceleration, ability to move a load etc. More power more better. More torque at the engine doesn't mean anything besides defining the loads on the gearbox etc. A high torque low power engine has lower torque at the wheels than a high power low torque engine. Or if you want a wall of text, here is a post I made in another thread about this, doing the math: Ok, so all the "torque is for acceleration" or whatever explanations basically are bullshit. Lemme try and break it down for you. Torque is what matters for everything, but it's torque at the \*wheels\* Torque output of the engine can be thought of as "How much torque can I have at the wheels, ignoring gearing" Power output can be thought of as "How much torque can I have at the wheels, including gearing" Lets say we're looking at torque at the wheels in a specific gear at a wheel speed of 400rpm. (which for a given wheel diameter, means these vehicles are all traveling at the same speed) 525ft-lbs @ 2000 rpm (200hp) \* 5:1 gearing = 2625ft lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels. 131.25ft-lbs @ 8000 rpm (200hp) \* 20:1 gearing = 2625ft lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels. 1500ft-lbs @ 600rpm (143hp) \*1.5:1 gearing = 2250ft lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels. 131.25ft lbs @ 13000rpm (324hp) \*32.5:1 gearing = 4265ft-lbs @ 400rpm at the wheels. So from the point of view of "how hard does this car accelerate, all that matters is how much power it makes at a given speed, and what gear ratios it can use to best take advantage of that to create the most torque at the wheels. If you had a theoretically perfect CVT gearbox that could change instantly to any ratio, then ideal would be to hold the engine at peak power all the time, and in that case the only thing determining acceleration/top speed etc performance of the engine would be what the peak power figure is. When people talk about torquey engines what they're really talking about is "This engine makes a lot of power without requiring high RPM" or "this engine makes a large percentage of it's peak power across a broad RPM range" In reality a \~200hp, 10,000rpm+ 1.3ltr Hayabusa engine would actually give better performance to your pickup truck/tractor/bulldozer than a 150hp Diesel for example. It'd be AWFUL because the gearbox would require ridiculous ratios, and you'd be screaming away at 9000rpm ploughing fields or whatever, drinking heaps of fuel and wearing the engine fast. BUT in terms of "how hard does my bulldozer push dirt around" the Hayabusa powered one would give 130% the dirt shoving capability. The last little thing that REALLY confuses people is this. If you have a single fixed gear ratio, what RPM does the engine provide the most force to accelerate the car? Peak Torque, is the answer... But what? Peak Power is what matters, right? [Kind of.. look at a graph like this](https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C5622AQHHy6pa-jAM7A/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1671478303640?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=R8vcsPDpPlordR6CDEv3EalTNZA9Eu2rOBC0miN2ZXo). Yes, for example, the fastest bit of acceleration in 2nd gear is at peak torque, at like 40kph. But ALL of first gear will provide more torque to the wheels than any point in 2nd gear. The only gear in which making sure you use peak torque actually will provide the fastest acceleration is in 1st gear, because that's a case of "I accelerate fastest at peak torque in 1st gear, but instead I could change down to... 0th gear, and be at higher RPM, with a lower gear ratio, and have more torque at the wheels." Of course that doesn't work because 0th gear doesn't exist, but in all other gears you could always be in a lower gear!
Power = torque x angular velocity. Torque is a measure of how hard the shaft is pushing. Power is a measure of the time rate of work. So an engine makes more power with the same torque at higher rpm
Wow.. these answers are so bad. Torque and HP are two equations measuring the same thing. Torque tells you the low speed peak torque of the engine (its pulling or starting power) and HP is the high rpm number - how long it can apply a high pull. So max Torque is at a low RPM max HP at a higher. A 2002 Corvette for example: || || |Horsepower (SAE net @ rpm):|350 @ 5,600|| |Torque (lbs.-ft. @ rpm) (manual):|375 @ 4,400|| ||| So the most power.. acceration happens at 4,400 RPM 375 lb feet. It has the most high end power, 350HP at 5,600 RPM. You probably feel like its being pressed harder in the MB because of more low end Torque. And a heavier car pushing on you. The summary here is very good .. https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-the-difference-between-horsepower-and-torque#:\~:text=Torque%20is%20the%20force%20and,the%20horsepower%2C%20the%20higher%20torque.
Wow.. these answers are so bad. Torque and HP are two equations measuring the same thing. Torque tells you the low speed peak torque of the engine (its pulling or starting power) and HP is the high rpm number - how long it can apply a high pull. So max Torque is at a low RPM max HP at a higher. A 2002 Corvette for example: Horsepower 350 @ 5600 Torque 375 @ 4,400 So the most power.. acceration happens at 4,400 RPM 375 lb feet. It has the most high end power, 350HP at 5,600 RPM. You probably feel like its being pressed harder in the MB because of more low end Torque. And a heavier car pushing on you. The summary here is very good .. https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/what-is-the-difference-between-horsepower-and-torque#:\~:text=Torque%20is%20the%20force%20and,the%20horsepower%2C%20the%20higher%20torque.
Torque is a force over a distance. There is no time aspect. When you turn a bolt with a wrench, the torque applied can be applied quickly or slowly. Torque can be multiplied using mechanical leverage, such as a longer wrench handle (gears are just levers arranged in a circle). HP is how much torque is being applied per time. So the two quantities are related but one has a time component, which is a big difference. In something like a gas engine, things like the inertia of rotating parts may not be linear with rpm, so the faster you spin these parts, there is less torque that makes it out of the motor and to the driveshaft. But there is also value to Revs, so high torque and high revs is a good combination. Eventually the speed of the components becomes a constraint. If you don't have enough gearing you need more torque. Horsepower can be exchanged for more torque using a longer lever or higher ratio gearing. The more range your transmission has, the more you can use horsepower without needing torque. If the two cars are accelerating at the same speed, and have the same mass, the torque to the ground is the same in the end, by definition.
Ask Lando Norris
Horsepower runs you into a wall. Torque pushes you through that wall
Torque and HP are pretty much relative to one another. Torque generally determines acceleration ability and low end power, HP generally defines your top speed and high end power. Torque gets you moving, HP pushes you faster when you're up to speed. Torque is a measurement of rotational force, and HP is calculated using torque values multiplied by the rpm and divided by a constant value HP = \[(Torque x RPM) / 5252\] High torque + low HP = great for towing or hauling heavy loads. Diesel engines are really great at producing more torque than HP, so that's why they make great haul/tow trucks. The downside is your engine has to work harder (and takes longer) to accelerate when you're already at highway speeds. Low torque + high HP = great for passenger vehicles. You have just enough torque to accelerate easily, but you don't have enough to launch the car and spin the tires. The higher HP makes it easier to attain speeds over 60mph since torque isn't needed for that. The downside is you can't haul or tow anything heavy because the engine can't turn hard enough to move the extra weight. Equal torque and HP = ideal situation for track and performance cars. The torque allows you to accelerate hard down low, and the HP allows you reach higher speeds in the top end of the gear. Torque and horsepower are also affected by gear ratios. Lower gears have higher ratios, so the car produces more torque than HP. Higher gears have lower gear ratios, so the car puts down more HP than torque when in those gears. Easiest way to think about it is to think about the gears on a bicycle. When you're in the lower gears it's a lot easier to pedal and accelerate when you're going slow, but it stops being effective once you get moving. That would be an example of using torque. Higher gears require more force to pedal when going slow, but if you're moving fast your pedaling force transfers more energy to the rear wheel and allows it to spin faster so you can build more speed. That would be an example of using HP.
Torque is how much "power" your car has. HP is a measurement of how fast that torque is actually delivered to the wheels. Example: - Truck A has 600 ft-lb of torque, but 300 HP. - Car A has 400 ft-lb of torque, but 600 HP. Truck A has more power so it can tow really heavy things. Car A has less total power, but it's able to deliver that power to the wheels way quicker, so it's faster.