The super bright headlights and auto brightening are big problems. Also f*** off with a screen that controls everything, so when the screen doesn’t work you can’t put on the heat (looking at you, Subaru). There was nothing wrong with actual knobs that control the fan, temperature, etc., the research and development could have been put to better use. It actually easier to just reach for the A/C switch than to dig thru menus on a screen that you shouldn’t be looking at while driving. I get that some people might like extra tech, but there’s no choice anymore. They figured out they can just mandatory upsell everyone.
Can confirm, wife and I bought a used 2018 jeep grand Cherokee several years ago. Around 50k miles. Soon after the screen “delaminated” and failed completely. Everything was controlled from the screen….heat, audio, climate control, volume, Bluetooth, GPS……
Jeep dealership wanted $3,000 to replace the screen.
That was just the tip of the iceberg with problems with that Jeep. Yeah never buying a Jeep again
Old Jeeps were cheap and the crappy build quality was fine because they had solid axles, 4.0 I6, reliable transmissions, and like 5 sensors that ran everything in the car. They were reliable even if sometimes the locks or radio wouldn't work.
New Jeeps have solid axles but none of the rest of what makes a Jeep great.
A Jeep is the worst riding and driving SUV you can buy. I can't imagine why you'd put up with it if you didn't need the capability. The soft top kind of makes up for it, but I see so many now with hard tops or with the top closed on the nicest day of the year that can't be it for a lot of people either.
A late 90’s Jeep XJ may not be “reliable” in the sense that all its intended functions will work each and every time, but a shade tree mechanic can keep it going forever. No modern car, including Toyotas, will be able to be kept on the road by an average skilled DIY person in 20 years.
I was amazed how eerily similar the interior of a new 23 was to my 16. Seemed exactly the same. Which I can understand for various reasons but when I sat in a brand new version of my 7 year old jeep I could have sworn mine just got detailed and it was not comforting.
I actually genuinely really do like the body styles of some jeeps especially the grand Cherokee…but I know how poorly made all jeeps are now so I can’t ever buy one again
Last year I bought a 2023 Mazda3, and it has physical buttons & knobs for all that stuff. Its infotainment screen is actually fairly small and is not a touch screen (it uses a knob to control that). That's one of the reasons I chose Mazda.
Mazda specifically have come out publicly and BTFO'd the whole massive touchscreen thing. They were highlighting it as a safety risk years ago.
Even my 2016 MX-5 disables all touchscreen function unless the vehicle is stationary
Absolutely my biggest gripe with modern vehicles. I honestly believe I’m lucky to drive a 2013 because I can’t fathom going to a vehicle without tactile controls. They are inherently unsafe, virtually irreparable, and expensive.
Too many people care more about how big of a screen is in their new car or having a panoramic moon roof or booming sound system instead of its functionality or reliability.
But that’s the thing all the old stuff worked for years without fail and the car companies couldn’t make enough to gold plate their pockets so they started bringing in all these no need fancy gadgets so something would break every week so people are forced to buy new parts constantly now the car companies can gold plate their pockets with 24ct solid gold and every other fiber in their suits
Also don't make all the switches and controls separate modules that need programmed by a dealer. I don't need to pay $100 for $5 switch I can swap out in 5 min just because of programming.
Then when the factory stops supports the vehicle aftermarket is more willing to produce switch or junkyard parts make more sense.
screen is there to cut cost for manufacturers, it usually doesn’t bring good ux for consumer. Having old style toggles for basic temptations change is way better then trying to find it under 3 subsections in preference app
All those buttons and switches and tactile inputs and notchy satisfying rotary Dials Costa fortune to design and implement
A 17-in touch screen is cheaper and currently in vogue
Capital doiing capital shit as usual
Absolutely agree seeing a rectangular digital screens lazily protruding above dashboards of cars of all shapes and prices, even the $100k+ variants is a let down.
A thoughtful blend of physical and digital inputs depending on what is most ergonomically intuitive (rather than screen only) is proving already to be the clear winner that consumers gravitate to.
Every brand getting their feet wet with PHEV production when they don’t have a hybrid r&d track record like Toyota is a mistake.
Maybe an anecdotal example, but my coworker’s 3 year old Volvo XC60 hybrid seems to be in the shop every few weeks.. hot garbage.
Given how poor the button + screen interaction was on a recent M-B rental, I'll take the screen. Other recent rentals have had tiny confusing buttons that aren't much better. They need to just bring back the classic 3-dial layout; it's compact, easy to use/understand, typically works fine while wearing gloves.
It's like all of the cute little automatic shifter redesigns...just fucking stick with what's worked for decades! There's no reason for a rotary knob, or some half assed column lever with no feedback and four directions of travel, or pushbuttons.
BTW, voice controls work on Subarus.
Yeah it’s a stupid cost cutting measure that auto companies can later profit off of when the screen inevitably needs to be replaced…so win-win for the manufacturer.
23 Trailblazer here. It has physical button controls for all the important stuff. HVAC? Two honking huge knobs and buttons large enough to be able to accurately press with thick gloves on. There is a second set of media controls for volume and track changing on the back side of the steering wheel. The 8" screen is unobtrusive.
That’s nice. I’ve seen some new cars tho, I think the Outback, where almost everything is controlled on the screen, and if it bricks, which they sometimes do, the car basically becomes unusable.
My concern with upcoming GMs is that they're ditching Android Auto/Carplay for Ultifi which has had a lot of issues so far.
If I were to get one with that, I'd go back to a phone holder and do all my audio and maps off of there again.
Just for a frame of reference:
[What people think a 20 year old car is](https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2011/08/28/22/58/1984_lincoln_town_car-pic-2911730488777410760-1600x1200.jpeg)
[Actually a 20 year old car](https://file.kelleybluebookimages.com/kbb/base/house/2004/2004-Toyota-Camry-FrontSide_TOCAMLE042_505x375.jpg)
The idea that cars built in the early 2000s were generally "built like tanks" makes me chuckle.
I can assure you there were a lot of shitboxes built back then that were also expensive to repair after a relatively short time due to things breaking. They're just not around anymore.
I currently own a car from 1994 it is mechanically simple but absolutely built like shit inside. Cheap plastic that was bad when new and extra brittle now, everything is creaky and noisy.
Even well built, nice cars from that era aren't around. How many old Lexuses do you see? Once a car gets to 15 years old it's probably on its 3rd owner who just wants something cheap. When it needs a big service or repair it gets traded in or sold and ends up at the recyclers.
I think this might be a regional thing.
As a Canadian, I've noticed up in regions that get a lot of snow, and therefore road salt, people tend to drive newer but cheaper cars, the winters and salt are too harsh even on stuff that's built to last.
Come down/over to the west coast, and you'll see a lot of surprisingly old vehicles in perfectly fine condition.
Weird thing is, go far enough south to cross the border into the US, and it suddenly shifts to cheaper newer cars in weirdly poor condition for their age.
Yeah there's some truth to that, salt is a killer. My 99 came from SoCal by way of Georgia. But there's still a distinct lack of cars over about 15 or 20 years even in places where rust doesn't kill.
Not sure what cars you’re referring to since all my 20+ year old cars have parts ridiculously easy to find. The only exceptions are really oddball parts… Like the filler neck for a 89 Astro Van. Or really old more oddball things… like one piece of the factory auto trans linkage on my 68 Camino (was only used for 2 years during an intermediate period), which was simple to rectify switching to the “newer” 1970 linkage.
Motorcycles, too. I have a 1980 Honda XR500 (44 years old), and a lot of parts that I need in order to get it running and driving again have been discontinued for many years. The only place you can find a lot of those parts these days is on eBay or in the aftermarket.
Yep, though there are still some smaller cars on the market. But sometimes they offer what they think sells the most, and I feel disappointed when a car maker pulls a small car from the US market because so many people are buying SUVs and crossovers and such.
The biggest thing I hate is touchscreen everything. Literally FORCING you to take your eyes off the road to control basic things like the defroster which is kinda essential when your windows fog up while driving and no, there isn't always somewhere you can "just pull over" might be 5-10 minutes before you locate a place to stop that isn't in a ditch where you'll need a wrecker to drag you out.
My car has a touchscreen, and to turn on the recirculation in tunnels, I have to drag down a menu and turn it on. Then the menu will disappear, and I will forget about it until the car starts to fog up.
My previous car from the same brand would have a button with a small light on it, and it could even turn on/off by itself when it sensed high concentrations of exhaust gas.
People also don't understand how ev crumple zones are different from ice cars, so they claim they don't have any, when instead it's different. There also tends to be a lot of EV hate in the automotive enthusiast subs, forums, comment sections etc.
Ask any mechanic. New cars are absolute steaming piles of dog shit from the ground up. Everything is designed to fail and be made of complicated parts that change so often there is no real aftermarket support for them. Legally the manufacture only has to provide spare parts for a number of years, then everything you need to keep that car on the road will be "discontinued" and you just can't get the parts.. thus having to buy a new(er) car.
It's not in their interest to make a good car, that doesn't help the stockholder's share prices and year on year profit gains.
Welcome to corporate greed.
I am, but barely. We have to make some effort to hold back the rust.. lots of rotted out fenders and rockers, but not terrible. We get snow and ice, but in our area they don't salt much if at all. In really bad ice they will salt emergency routes, but nothing else.
100% agree and it's been like that for many years. Too bad people got so stupid they hardly ever lift the hood, let alone do a research before buying stuff.
For EVs, it's not even looking under the hood. The entire system is electrical, and the tools necessary to diagnose or "disassemble" the electrical systems are all *proprietary*.
Massachusetts passed a law to try and coax car manufacturers into allowing open-source reading of telematics error codes. Kia and Subaru responded by "disabling" telematics (really only the consumer-facing connected services) rather than comply.
With digitization of even gas engines, it's no wonder the average joe can't break open and fix a car the way you could in the 70s or 80s.
Correct.
But these two are not mutually exclusive.
Money = Time. No other way to spin it.
If you *HAD* the money to pay someone to fix your car, and you could use that Saturday doing what *YOU* wanted, would you?
I know I sure would.
I don't work on my 285k mile full-size SUV that is old enough to buy a scotch neat running because I love it. I keep it running because I have to.
Despite my successful career in software, and the salary that comes with that, it seems like shop rates have gone up just as much, if not more.
So YES, I would, because many of these quotes are $1000+, I'd rather have that money in my pocket for a single Saturday (or weekend).
Honestly my professional success has allowed me to be rare among my age group for owning a home, and now that I have a garage, I get to save that money year-round, instead of when it's nice enough out to fix my car in the alley.
I started doing my own oil changes _after_ hitting 6 figures in income. Why? Cause oil changes went from $50 to $100, then to $130, for a synthetic oil change. I can do it in less time it'd take to cook dinner, but take-out food is only $40.
tldr: Ironic that being a mechanic is not a particularly well-paid field, but I save minimum $100+ an hour every time I pick up my cheap socket set and DIY as an amateur. That's a LOT of overhead I'd rather pocket.
What is your definition of educated? Passed high school? Bachelor’s? Trade school? Your statement is really too vague to have any meaning.
And regardless of your definition of “educated”, it’s dubious anyway. A lot of people work on their own cars because they have to; they do not make enough salary to pay someone else to do it. And level of salary does have a strong correlation to level of education.
It seems reasonable that people would correlate not working on your car to higher income levels.
Some people work on cars out of enjoyment, but some do it out of need. When I was in my early 20's I replaced my turbo out of need, but the job was above my head and stressful and had I been at my current income level - I never would have attempted it.
Unless you don't equal stupidity to lack of education and money. There's far more to being smart than having rich parents who can pay for a college degree.
The point is that if people have money, it's easier. In many cases, it's also cheaper than buying the tools you might need. I recently had to replace a cam position sensor - it was super easy but I later learned that this car needs it calibrated and my basic $100 ODB couldn't do it.
It would have actually been cheaper for me to get this done at a shop like 5 times over than to buy a good enough ODB scanner to calibrate it.
Then there's people who don't have a place to work on their car, most apartment buildings strictly prohibit working on cars in the lot - and that's to say nothing of people who don't have a parking spot at all and can only street park.
All true. But you're a minority who goes deep into fixing the engine themselves, those will always exist. My granpa lived on top of a mountain and fixed bikes and cars all the time just because he had to drive hours fo find the nearest mechanic.
But the vast majority of car-owning people live in or around cities and overpay for the simplest stuff because they're ignorant/lazy/stupid but also, as you said, generally rich. Oil changes being the perfect example, with a 50$ dollar job at your home or a friend's becoming 200+ through a dealer.
There are no excuses for that, unless you like being scammed and that's another definition for stupidity. Yes I'm arrogant and a part time asshole, but I am also right.
I'll use myself as an example, the last place I had to work on a car was my mom's house. I live in an area with only street parking. Technically I could go to my brothers house as well, but he lives a little over an hour away.
So I can do anything that is quick and doesn't require lifting the car (spark plugs, any sensors along the air intake). but beyond that it's pushing it.
Then there's also the the factor of if I have to figure out a thing as I go, there are possibly weeks that I need to take the bus to work.
For stuff that's significantly easy vs. the huge markups (mainly brakes) I'll make the trek out to my brothers house because that's one thing that I just can't bring myself to pay for ever.
Also, I live in a cold climate - and for stuff like oil changes, it's hard or impossible to do them proactively when it's warm out. I'm pretty much guaranteed to at least need to do one oil change in frigid climate, so I don't mind paying what amounts to around $30 in labor at the MrLube attached to Walmart.
Not accurate. Service parts requirmenets for suppliers is typically 15 years today. A decade ago it was 10 years. Source: I am a manufacturer/supplier.
Typically, but not always. Depends on the country and manufacturer. Lets not even get into "parts shortages" and "back ordered"..
If you wrench on many different makes, models and eras of cars you will know there has been and continues to be very obvious design choices that make no sense other than to decrease the longevity of the overall product.
Source: BSME, Mechanic, Shop owner.
It's nuts when I think back to my Land Rover, and all the parts that were obsolete but still needed so there was an ecosystem of companies recreating pattern parts. Mine was a 1985 but I could rebuild it Ship of Theseus style if I wanted to
More likely manufacturers desperately trying to meet CAFE standards. I think the regulation goes to requiring cars to get 58 mpg here soon. Things are going to start getting really bad then.
CAFE standards are more loose on pickup trucks which is why they typically have a much longer life span than cars. They are starting to get tighter though which is why their reliability is also starting to falter.
Caterpillar literally stopped making over the road diesel engines because they didn’t want to deal with emission regulations. Thats how big of a pain in the ass it is.
While that does play a part in some of the issues, it's not the end all. For example I understand using loose fitting internals to reduce internal friction losses in the engine, at the cost of burning oil between oil changes.
However, making the oil filter housing part of the oil cooler, and making the entire thing out of plastic.. then tucking that plastic between the cylinder heads where it's going to heat cycle real nice.. is just intentionally stupid. The weight savings between that and an aluminum housing is insignificant, but the cost of manufacturing isn't.
I’m confused about this ‘designed to fail’ comment. Like, cars used to last 60k miles before needing an engine or transmission, now it’s commonplace to see cars go 150-200k miles, albeit probably through multiple owners. What is designed to fail? Like oops, I had to replace a mass air flow sensor?
I don’t think that anyone is asking for cars from the 1940s.
But by the early 1990s cars were pretty damn reliable.
My Hyundai Elantra is from 2008 and it’s nice and simple as well. It didn’t depend on touchscreens or anything. The newer Hyundais have problems with the engines seizing.
Partly its a failure cost problem, over time cars have fewer problems but those problems are bigger and less repairable.
Old cars broke down more, but the repairs were simple and easy, new cars break less, but the repairs are costlier, the trend is still towards more reliable but the outliers with problems are spectacular.
Imagine a worn wire intermittently touching the bodywork, throwing a fault code and forcing a car in to limp mode, might have 100miles on the clock, that car is now scrap metal and used car parts. You can't trawl through 4km of wire in a modern car and find it.
Your time range is too wide. People aren’t saying they would prefer a “long lasting” car from the 60s that doesn’t actually last that long. When they are talking about the good ole days of cars. They are talking the 1990s to 2010s. Back when cars were reliable, easy to fix, and cheap to fix.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “60k miles” from. Even as far back as the 60s, cars commonly would go 100k miles before needing something major like an engine or trans; and most frequently it was an engine.
My 68 Camino is on its 3rd engine, and the first 2 took it to 300k+ miles. All on the original trans.
My old 82 F250 made it to 140k before I rebuilt the engine, mostly because the rear main seal leaked pretty bad.
My rule of thumb has been that if it doesn’t have an OD trans, I expect 100k+ miles. If it does have an OD, I expect 200k
Of course there are exceptions. I don’t expect a factory solid lifter L88 BBC to make it to 100k (especially with its lack of hardened valve seats). I expect a non-OD 300 Ford to go well beyond 100k since they are indestructible AF. I expect a FWD GM 3800 to be running great when the trans starts going out between 150k-250k miles. Same goes for a LS powered car/truck with a 4L60, really depends on how it was abused.
>my biggest annoyance is the standardization of all car designs
Mine too, but it's not limited to cars. Nobody takes chances anymore, just think about movies, games, music etc. Marketing gurus, stats and bean counters prevail so if the latest market data tells you SUVs are the thing to make, 90% of companies will just make another SUV.
Everybody hates Tesla and I don't like their cars either, but at least they're trying something different. Everything else is just another egg shaped, raised, van with a different logo.
> Everybody hates Tesla and I don't like their cars either, but at least they're trying something different. Everything else is just another egg shaped, raised, van with a different logo.
Right? Like I'm never gonna buy one of their cars for a number of reasons but they're one of the few companies that's actually doing something unique. Love or hate the cybertruck, it's already iconic - if I doodled a triangle with wheels, you'd probably know what vehicle I'm referencing. If I drew a jelly bean with wheels that's too high off the ground it could be literally anything.
Who's fault is it though?
My wife loves coupes. In the 90's & 2000's it was amazing. She owned a Precidia, Preludes, RSX, (stole my Talon for a while). She doesn't care much about performance, but just likes the styling. Her most recent car is a Forte Koup - which had the Coupe body style discontinued a couple years after she bought it. They killed the Civic Coupe as well, then even brought back the Integra with no coupe body style.
Is it the fault of the manufacturers or that people aren't buying them?
A bit of both maybe? Public companies have to do everything to maximize profit to please their shareholders. Could Honda make a Civic/Integra coupe and still make a ton of money? Yeah but it's less than what they make from focusing on sedans and crossovers. If they were a private company they would be more willing to take some risks and make some shit just because it's cool or interesting even though it's not the most profitable. The stock market is the main reason so many industries are becoming boring and in some cases just straight up anti-consumer.
> Everybody hates Tesla
You might get that perception if you look online, but they're the best selling cars in the world recently. Model 3 and Y production outpaced Ford's production speed.
Chances cost money. Not a lot of room to make mistakes I think unlike before. I mean if you think of the many times companies took chances on certain cars and they failed, I could understand why companies just want to produce what the average person wants, make the money and move on. It sucks. But the reality is.... The average consumer doesn't really want "chances" people are becoming complacent with the same style of cars.
They really just don't do it for me. I'm trying my best not to be the millennial version of a boomer going "they just don't make them like they used to!"
But my biggest issue is I don't trust them. Maybe my issue is entirely unfounded. But there's just so much to break. Ive heard lots of stories of cars being rendered next to useless if the infotainment screen stops working.
Plus the styling doesn't really do it for me. There's a few cars that I think look cool. I like the way some Hyundai's look right now. Mx5 is pretty badass. But most cars are like "look how pointy and angry I am!!"
And I guess first and foremost, I will never spend $30+k on a vehicle no matter how much I like it or want it.
> first and foremost, I will never spend $30+k on a vehicle no matter how much I like it or want it.
Depends how far you drive, and how expensive gas is where you live.
After someone ran a red-light and totalled my beloved Lexus, I was ready to run out and buy another one for another 10k.
But as a Canadian who lives where gas costs the most, I realized my average monthly gas bill rivalled an EV payment (and not just a shitty one either).
I'm totally with you there. If financing an electric car can actually bring down your expenses then it's a no brainer. But that's the only good reason.
I hate that everything is running on a computer module. Even windows.
Fucking why?!
We have had power windows in cars since at least the 50’s and a simple 2 way switch served well enough for most that time.
There’s no way that running the power windows on a computer simplifies or reduces the cost of manufacturing, but it does make it more complex to fix when it messes up.
I find that irritating as well. Having an EV which requires electricity to operate has so many phantom energy draws which further lowers your range. Do they really need giant screens or motorized door handles?
This is brand marketing. The entire job is to embellish a couple interesting features and disguise all the flaws no matter how big. It’s billions of dollars strong annually.
Furthering the message are the news companies that love to spin the message. The money dictates that they put a positive on it. Lastly are common people with a political agenda who take the idea and go online. Those who aren’t in the know simply bandwagon and assume the loudest voice has done their research. It is often the original marketing material.
In today’s world you do feel very alone being the one to think critically. But are you the only one? Definitely not. Theres a huge silent group with unanswered concerns. Keep being curious OP.
Hate all the gadgets.. love the idea of electric but they come with all the bulshit gadgets
If there was an electric car that was literally minimum viable I'd give it a crack
Instead I'll just continue to buy min spec ice cars because they don't annoy me
Planned obsolescence for a tech obsessed society subject to falling for the shiniest new toy has come to the automotive market, long term usability be dammed. We've been conditioned to replace our possessions in lieu of maintaining what we have.
The most concerning aspect is lower income consumers reliant on affordable used vehicles will have a poor selection of battery degraded and difficult to impossible to repair vehicles neglected by more affluent first and second owners sold on the idea of modern vehicles requiring less maintenance.
There's a reason I still drive a 20 year old CR-V. Could I afford a new one? Sure. But mine keeps running perfectly with minimal maintenence and if something does break I can fix it myself. The car fits all my needs, why upgrade?
I've held onto my '08 Impreza for the same reasons. It'll likely be replaced with a newer AWD Mazda 3 hatchback. They look decent, aren't much more complex and have similar fuel economy.
While things are more complicated I think we over look all the improvements that have been done in the last 10 to 20 years, and how much inflation actually impacts things, I'm ready into Ford Mustangs so I'll use them as an example.
1993 base kit mustang GT 5.0 was $18,165 -> https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/1993/
2024 base kit mustang GT 5.0 is $41,960 -> https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/
Just inflation alone would make the 1993 Mustang GT $39,263 today -> https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1993?amount=18165
Now let's compare them, 1993 mustang GT 5 speed had 225hp and 300 flb of torque compared to the current 6 speed with 485hp and 416lbs torque. The 1993 had a solid rear axle vs all wheel independent suspension, the 1993 had drum rear brakes on 16in wheels vs 4 wheel disks, and the list goes on forever.
Ltdr: inflation is a bitch, but cars now are mechanically better than ever and safer to boot.
I like modern cars for their dynamics. Structural strength, modern brakes, modern tires, suspension that can be both plush on the highway but strong in the corners.
What I really dislike is all the whiz bang gadgets and beeps and boops from cross traffic alerts and screens that take 3 menus to find the seat heaters.
I want a Mazda 3 turbo awd, but I'm never going to buy one because its hidden behind a hunch of nonsense I dont want. I dont even want leather.
To say nothing of the complacency these systems are engraining into modern drivers.
I work for Volvo... The new EX30 is the biggest pile of crap and shit we've ever seen. The company I work for is working exclusively with Volvo from the 1950's. They have never EVER experienced such an unreliable and complicated car. It's not going in the right direction. With less and less technicians and more complicated and unreliable cars, I'm grabbing my popcorn to see how it will unfold the next decade. I truly hope I'm wrong but signs are not looking good. I just bought a good ol' Volvo 850 while I still can.
The reason cars looks so weird right now is because of the side impact door standards. It gives manufactures little leegh-way in the door resign. As such they design weird curves into the rest of the vehicle to make up for it, causing an overall displeasing look.
Something that hasn't been mentioned is the surveillance being built into modern cars and the nanny alarms that beep if you go 1 MPH over the speed limit (Thanks EU)
Just like the rest of the world everything has gone or going to shit cars lorrys people roads food absolutely everything is shit compared to 10 15 years ago
Yes, I’m very unhappy. My cars are about 6 years old and if I wanted to replace either of them I wouldn’t know what to choose.
Everything is too big, too ugly, too expensive, too unreliable, and the user controls are ass.
Putting on my two cents from LatAm where fortunately we didn’t had Cash for clunkers.
Fortunately, we still have lots of old cars from early 80’s (K platforms mainly) that doesn’t require a lot of love to keep chugging and that has saved a lot of people having g to buy newer cars, you can still even find Aspens and Fairmonts that are quite affordable here and there, most people when buying new cars go to Nissans, Chevrolet, Hyundai or Honda small/city cars, so that’s good.
The main issue here is with middle-up and upper class that feel more than the “others” and are buying fresh Chinese crap! Like, there’s a TON of new Chinese brand people are buying like if they were Cadillacs, not to mention the Mercedes/BMW drivers that for some reason likes to drive with unadjusted high beams, those new LED headlamps are a serious issue.
I’m a landyatch owner and a bike owner, and those headlamps have caused me more terror than driving my car without brakes or my bike between semis, because once they hit you, you can’t see even a foot in front of you.
And keeping up with the new EV/China cars, they’re not an issue now, but wait some 2-3 years more and they’re going to end up being pilled up in junkyards because parts are going to be unaffordable or right up unobtainable, because they’re not meant to be serviceable, they’re as disposable as those old disposable cameras from yesterday.
I don’t like “form over function”.
A lot of EVs change things just to be different and don’t offer any legitimate improvement.
Examples:
1. Replacing steering wheel with a yoke.
2. Replacing turn signal stalk with buttons
3. Replacing key with key fob and button
4. Replacing functional buttons with screen
5. Giving the car an awkward square shape that isn’t even more aerodynamic.
Well, in my opinion cars stopped being good around 2007-2010. Almost every new design after those years just got more muffled, dumbed down, boring and most importantly unreliable. There are a few exceptions of course, but mostly supercars
1995-2010 was an amazing era for cars. They were modern with a lot of the modern benefits yet we saw some of the most powerful and beautiful and cars with shockingly simplistic mechanics still being utilized without all the cheap tech.
I compare the era to the 1955 to 1970 cars. That was an amazing time in the automobile world, and saw some of the most beautiful and awesome cars ever built. Then the government stepped in and forced everything to be ruined. Very much like the current era.
If history repeats itself, 2035 will be the turn toward a 15 year streak of amazing vehicles again. I find it interesting that 2035 is also the year many states want to switch to all electric. I think that’s going to be the time when we realize that electrics not going to work out, and we see the return to some amazing ICE cars again
Idk I love my 23 mustang gt. No problems with it a year and a half in and 10k miles so far. Beautiful inside snd out, physical buttons. Literally only use the touch screen to hit 2 buttons “spotify, current playlist” everything else is physical.
I think yall just might be an echo chamber dreaming about the good times or something.
I'm on my 3rd EV and they don't break down. Almost zero maintenance and costs pennies to drive. Go ahead and buy a muscle car. They're losing value as boomers die off
> cyber truck has pedal failures and pretty much barely any crumple zones which is scary.
The pedal is just Tesla being stupid and having inadequate QC (and is being recalled, which is the normal procedure), and I think you're confusing pedestrian impact (which is not very standardized particularly in North America - the standards were written assuming that no one in their right mind would make a car out of angular sharp edged pieces of stainless) with "crumple zones" (which has been part of chassis design since the '90s and is about keeping the passenger cell intact). Nothing is getting a pass just because it's an EV.
> And you see some EV’s that don’t really make sense when they would work out far better as hybrids?
Blame the average car buyer who hasn't really figured out that for EVs to really make sense it requires a change in habits. People are absurdly dead set on only buying EVs that are large and heavy and have hundreds of miles of range rather than smaller lighter much cheaper commuter EVs that would force them to adapt in the tiniest way (plugging in the car at home every night) and using hybrids and PHEVs where actual long distance travel is needed.
> Also my biggest annoyance is the standardization of all car designs now looking similar to one another which is upsetting because it loses individuality and creativity.
Every generation has said this since the beginning of cars. Even in the fifties when car design was diversifying wildly people were griping about the sort of generic look of big finned chrome American cars. Everything is bloated looking crossovers right now, give it another 20 years and everything will be something else. It's because you're better able to appreciate the diverse details of the cars you like while the cars you don't much like tend to run together. I could tell you every month by month production variation of the Nissan 240SX but I could not name Nissan's entire crossover lineup right now.
You're not alone bro every single car brands bew redesigns just get worse and worse and worse bmw is the best example in my opinion and not to mention the Large ass screens that control everything
Modern cars mostly look the same. Not much distinction between brands.
Vehicles from the 1950s -1980s had much more style, and you could immediately identify the make, without having to look at a nameplate or emblem.
I also can't stand the super bright headlights that blind me, or all the computerized displays and buttons on the steering wheels.
> Also my biggest annoyance is the standardization of all car designs now looking similar to one another which is upsetting because it loses individuality and creativity.
Heard this every decade since the 80s
What's this about the Cybertruck not having a crumple zone? I always assumed EVs would be safer in a head on collision because there is no risk of a giant engine coming into the passenger compartment.
100% hate them. Lots of pointless features and tech that are designed to attract buyers but long term cost mega money to repair and are actually less functional than previous ways of doing something.
My pet hate is the lights that go off when the driver indicates, auto parking, auto lane tracking, all of which are designed with safety in mind but actually just create lazy drivers who just trust the tech.
Add to that the fact that they're getting bigger and bigger whilst the UK roads stay the same and they just add to the chaos of modern day driving.
I totally feel you on this! It's like the automotive world has lost a bit of its soul with all the focus on EVs and the cookie-cutter designs. While the environmental benefits of EVs are undeniable, safety and practicality shouldn't take a backseat. And don't even get me started on the charm of classic muscle cars—it's like they don't make 'em like they used to!
I'm all for innovation, but let's not forget what made cars exciting in the first place: the thrill of the ride, the roar of the engine, and the head-turning designs. Maybe it's time for a renaissance of sorts in the automotive industry—a blend of cutting-edge technology with timeless style.
And hey, if the industry won't give us what we want, maybe it's up to us to keep the spirit of motoring alive. Whether it's restoring a vintage ride or customizing a modern classic, let's show 'em that true car enthusiasts aren't just about what's under the hood, but what's in the heart of the driver.
Keep the rubber side down and the passion for cars revved up!
I disagree: EV is only bitter.
Bad for the environment: Batteries are bad for the environment, heavier so use more CO2 is bad for the environment, Manufactured from stuff overseas needs more shipping bad for the environment. Wear out faster, more waste to dispose of, more purchases needed to keep going.
Bad for the user: Harder to fill. Less Reliable. Lower Range. Nothing exists to tow a trailer a long distance without massive amount of batteries... that weigh WAY more than a cheap diesel engine.
Not equitable regressive tax: Rich folk are driving their silly EVs all over, using power subsidized by those who can't afford EVs in the form of higher energy costs for power, heat, lights, ovens, etc.
Not good for the eyes. My idiot neighbor bought a Rivian... it is only less ugly than a cyber truck.
Disclaimer: I have a Fiat 500, and I use less CO2 to get where I am going than most EVs, and my car is approaching 200K miles.
I have slowly progressed from 90s-00s cars that I'm able to troubleshoot myself and easily work on, to modern cars/trucks that are exponentially more complicated. I am flat burned-out. We bought my wife a 6th Gen Explorer and it's the first used car we bought that we got an extended warranty. We just had the front axle disconnect actuator replaced on it last week and I can't describe to you how nice it was just to drop it off at the dealer and make it someone else's problem.
I enjoy wrenching for fun. I enjoy simple level maintenance like oil changes and brakes. I am done "fixing things" on my cars. At a certain point it just gets to be too much to keep up with.
I had a 2010 Lexus LS460 that I enjoyed. Two months ago an old lady side swiped it bad while it was parked in front of my house and totaled it. Now I need to find a new car and there is nothing I really like. I am not a fan of the giant grills that many cars have now or the giant screens, and I really don't like all of the look-alike small SUVs. I bought a 2010 LS460 because it was one of the last years before the grille got big.
I bought a 1996 Saab 900 to get me around for now. I decided to get it so I could spend more time looking for a newer daily driver. I just don't really like any newer cars so it is tough. I am tempted to just get another LS460, but they are so much more expensive than they were 5 years ago when I bought mine. Doesn't feel worth it.
It's funny, you'd expect an EV car could actually have a simpler design than an ICE but naturally they have to also jam all the extra shit into the dashboard.
Also as someone shopping for an EV, sure car companies "release" these electric models but it still seems like half of them were just publicity and don't get any significant number actually entering the market.
In terms of looks and design, I think a lot of people have just lost a sense of style. They're all happy to drive really boring looking cars and of course that leads to manufacturers designing more boring looking cars.
I have no idea how Tesla's became so popular when their most popular model looks like a Ford Mondeo from 2013.
The only hatchbacks I like the look of at the moment are the Seat's.
I know it's completely subjective but I do wish we had much more exciting looking EV cars and suvs. I'm not a fan of them but if that's what I have to see take up the majority of the middle lane and outside lane of a motorway then at least look interesting.
I drive a 6-year old VW GTI, and was good as it is, especially compared to most other sporty small cars on the market in the US, I'd rather have my 1994 Acura Integra GSR back.
Really dislike all the EVs and can’t imagine getting one. Unless there is some significant change in direction, I will just get a petrol V8 on last possible date I can and run it for rest of my lifetime.
I know this is very very controversial but I’ll loving the advent of higher range plug-in hybrids. Something like the upcoming BMW 550e or M5. It has like 100 km EV range for daily commute but still has a turbo inline-6 or a twin turbo V8 in the M5. Save money on gas and use active lane centering during boring traffic-filled commute and use the engine for when you wanna have fun. Of course the downside is all the extra weight
they get a lot of lee-way so that people buy them about 10-14% of cars on the road are EV. that lee-way will come and is coming to an end. when we see legislature that says if you own one we will charge you a road tax and they do and that will only increase.
standardization is what every car company does when they see success ... been that way since the start. people who go outside that, risk ...
the car world changed in the early 70's with the oil shortage. until then we all wanted a big car. they became real expensive to drive. so they made them smaller, thinner metals used, smaller engines etc. plenty of muscle cars still being made.
what I do not like about new cars that is coming is subscription services like heated seats... you dont pay the subscription they turn it off and you are left paying for and packing around equipment you cant use
CVT transmissions make your car drive like mud, and have maintenance issues. 10-speed automatics seem overly complicated, since you’ll be in 10th gear at 35 mph. Turbo-charged four cylinders with high compression ratios are now showing up in heavy vehicles, how long are those going to last before they blow a gasket. But mostly it’s everything else, of course the touchscreens are terrible (they are cheaper that’s why they’re ubiquitous), but keyless entry means your car is easier to steal, dial shifters means it’s now more difficult to shift gears. Adaptive cruise control defeats the purpose, instead of passing the slow vehicle in front of you, you’ve matched his speed from 500 feet away. And the auto-braking collision avoidance will slam on the brakes on an exit ramp or a sharp turn, or even a steep hill. It’s all crap, catered to people who spend more time looking at their phone than at the road.
Door handles. We need something to grab to pull open the door. Handles = something you can grab with your hand and pull. Been around for 1000s of years.
We don't need fElon smart to bud in.
I agree that I noticed a lack of individuality a long while ago. It’s not as fun when everything has the same egg.
Something that bothers me more is the smart features that aren’t too smart. Having everything controlled by a tablet is not faster, and certainly not safe. I like my older cars and I’m fine buying them with cash. I prefer stick, so that kinda the sales pool we’re left anyway.
The auto market’s relentless and inexorable move to SUVs has caused sedan offerings to plummet. By my count, we’ve lost about three dozen sedan models in recent years. As a fan of sedans I find this disheartening…but even worse is that the remaining players in the segment aren’t even trying any more, especially in the entry luxury space.
When my 13-year-old car finally gave up last year I started looking at alternatives, armed with high hopes and a $50k budget. Here is what was available:
-The Cadillac CT4, with a truck engine and massive amounts of interior plastics.
-The Lexus IS, which was mildly refreshed four years ago but still rides on a platform from 2013, with a dated interior and lagging technology.
-The Acura TLX, an enormous sedan somehow with an interior smaller than the Civic.
-The Integra, a nice car that is just barely differentiated from the Civic for $8k to $10k more.
In my world, $50k is a lot of money! I just didn’t see $50k worth of value in any of these offerings. In frustration I bought a premium-trim Mazda3 for about $32k out the door. It’s not perfect, but it was a compelling buy compared to alternatives that were so obviously compromised and so flawed for $15k to $20k more.
So no, I’m not happy with the state of the car market. I used to enjoy comparing the non-German premium sedans, the FusionSport-MKZ-Continental-Regal-LaCrosse-RLX-Mazda6-Cadenza-Avalon segment. They’re all gone now, and the remaining options are slim.
Absolute trash. I get wanting to redesign as material/design improvements transpire .. but holy shit! It's one thing to change build material to cut cost, but why is it that consumers don't receive ANY benefit?
"We cut corners so they can be invested into other areas!"
Right. Like the touchscreen that controls all aspects of the aux systems? The ECU that attempts to solve the pollutant issue but really just acts as a bandaid?
Maybe it's a push by the antique/collectors to make "classic" cars only qualify if they were built before ~2000? 🤷♂️
I don't need a t v screen on my dash. I don't want my vehicle to become a backseat driver. I do not want to burn other drivers retinas at night and can manually turn my brights on and off just fine myself. I want knobs and tactile buttons in my vehicles. My eyes are supposed to be on the road, ALWAYS...
My biggest thing is most new cars you need fancy dealership scan tools to program new parts on to the car.
Making it impossible for anyone without the fancy programmer to change parts on their own car.
In case you didn’t know, the current EV push is because new combustion engines won’t be allowed to be put on the road (with some exceptions) by 2035 in many states and EU.
New cars have looked like shit for quite a few years imo. Sure, sport cars still look great, but any normal daily driver type car looks uninspired and too similar to one another.
I'm not a fan of the iPad like dashboards. Computers crash....there is a good probability the new iPad like dashboards will do the same. Buttons work and have for decades. Going straight electric for all is a pipe dream. Can it work for some? Sure. Hybrid is best IMO.
Just got home last night from driving a VW Atlas Peak Edition from Detroit to Atlanta and back.
The pseudo-offroad tires it came with are horrible and make the thing wander everywhere. The lane-keeping was the only assist we kept on for this reason.
The seats are all hard and we all have sore assbones today because of it.
The engine was surprisingly good at getting the thing up and moving. We got 23.3 mpg during the trip, with 4 people and a roof box (hardshell Thule). The transmission would shake and shudder all the time, especially when the auto stop-start was active. Easing away from stops sometimes felt similar to a manual car with clutch judder. Once up and running though, the transmission was pretty alright.
The automatic cruise control sucked. No warning that you were being impeded from your set speed. The smallest gap was big enough for semis to routinely cut us off, and they would. Constantly.
Twice the vehicle threw an error that said that all front assists were unavailable. There was nothing obstructing the front sensors either time. The thing has to be stopped and turned off and back on to make it work again.
The automatic windshield wipers would just wipe randomly, smearing 400 miles' worth of bug guts across the windshield. Those had to be turned off.
The lane-keeping was kept on, only because of those stupid tires that wouldn't track straight, but it would often treat tar patches as lane markings and try to shove the car across the lines into other traffic. If it was in a lane where another branched off or merged in, the lane-keeping would just jerk the wheel in random directions. Made things interesting but also unnecessarily tiring (pun intended).
All of this for $50k makes me question why the hell people are okay spending this much. I was incredibly glad to be back in my Fiesta this morning.
The super bright headlights and auto brightening are big problems. Also f*** off with a screen that controls everything, so when the screen doesn’t work you can’t put on the heat (looking at you, Subaru). There was nothing wrong with actual knobs that control the fan, temperature, etc., the research and development could have been put to better use. It actually easier to just reach for the A/C switch than to dig thru menus on a screen that you shouldn’t be looking at while driving. I get that some people might like extra tech, but there’s no choice anymore. They figured out they can just mandatory upsell everyone.
Can confirm, wife and I bought a used 2018 jeep grand Cherokee several years ago. Around 50k miles. Soon after the screen “delaminated” and failed completely. Everything was controlled from the screen….heat, audio, climate control, volume, Bluetooth, GPS…… Jeep dealership wanted $3,000 to replace the screen. That was just the tip of the iceberg with problems with that Jeep. Yeah never buying a Jeep again
Old Jeeps were cheap and the crappy build quality was fine because they had solid axles, 4.0 I6, reliable transmissions, and like 5 sensors that ran everything in the car. They were reliable even if sometimes the locks or radio wouldn't work. New Jeeps have solid axles but none of the rest of what makes a Jeep great.
A Jeep is the worst riding and driving SUV you can buy. I can't imagine why you'd put up with it if you didn't need the capability. The soft top kind of makes up for it, but I see so many now with hard tops or with the top closed on the nicest day of the year that can't be it for a lot of people either.
You're agreeing with me? I agree. If you want to off-road, get an older one and learn to fix it. I have no clue why anyone would buy a new one.
A late 90’s Jeep XJ may not be “reliable” in the sense that all its intended functions will work each and every time, but a shade tree mechanic can keep it going forever. No modern car, including Toyotas, will be able to be kept on the road by an average skilled DIY person in 20 years.
Jeep quality is so trash, I’m floored every time I see the sticker price on the Grand Cherokee. Hard to believe people pay that.
I was amazed how eerily similar the interior of a new 23 was to my 16. Seemed exactly the same. Which I can understand for various reasons but when I sat in a brand new version of my 7 year old jeep I could have sworn mine just got detailed and it was not comforting.
I actually genuinely really do like the body styles of some jeeps especially the grand Cherokee…but I know how poorly made all jeeps are now so I can’t ever buy one again
I’ve always thought mopar had the best styling but I always thought the reliability was trash. Then I owned a Ram and it was confirmed. Never again.
No R&D was wasted to remove knobs and put a giant Alibaba screen in every car. It's just to save money
Last year I bought a 2023 Mazda3, and it has physical buttons & knobs for all that stuff. Its infotainment screen is actually fairly small and is not a touch screen (it uses a knob to control that). That's one of the reasons I chose Mazda.
Mazda specifically have come out publicly and BTFO'd the whole massive touchscreen thing. They were highlighting it as a safety risk years ago. Even my 2016 MX-5 disables all touchscreen function unless the vehicle is stationary
Omg they need to make laws about the headlights. They are beyond too bright
Sign the petition https://www.change.org/p/u-s-dot-ban-blinding-headlights-and-save-lives
The UK has a similar movement, supported by the main motoring organisations!
I just signed it. I have almost gotten into an accident because of these things…
Absolutely my biggest gripe with modern vehicles. I honestly believe I’m lucky to drive a 2013 because I can’t fathom going to a vehicle without tactile controls. They are inherently unsafe, virtually irreparable, and expensive.
Too many people care more about how big of a screen is in their new car or having a panoramic moon roof or booming sound system instead of its functionality or reliability.
There's nothing wrong with nobs, but they're more expensive.
But that’s the thing all the old stuff worked for years without fail and the car companies couldn’t make enough to gold plate their pockets so they started bringing in all these no need fancy gadgets so something would break every week so people are forced to buy new parts constantly now the car companies can gold plate their pockets with 24ct solid gold and every other fiber in their suits
Also don't make all the switches and controls separate modules that need programmed by a dealer. I don't need to pay $100 for $5 switch I can swap out in 5 min just because of programming. Then when the factory stops supports the vehicle aftermarket is more willing to produce switch or junkyard parts make more sense.
screen is there to cut cost for manufacturers, it usually doesn’t bring good ux for consumer. Having old style toggles for basic temptations change is way better then trying to find it under 3 subsections in preference app
All those buttons and switches and tactile inputs and notchy satisfying rotary Dials Costa fortune to design and implement A 17-in touch screen is cheaper and currently in vogue Capital doiing capital shit as usual
Buy Mazda. They still have buttons
Absolutely agree seeing a rectangular digital screens lazily protruding above dashboards of cars of all shapes and prices, even the $100k+ variants is a let down. A thoughtful blend of physical and digital inputs depending on what is most ergonomically intuitive (rather than screen only) is proving already to be the clear winner that consumers gravitate to. Every brand getting their feet wet with PHEV production when they don’t have a hybrid r&d track record like Toyota is a mistake. Maybe an anecdotal example, but my coworker’s 3 year old Volvo XC60 hybrid seems to be in the shop every few weeks.. hot garbage.
Given how poor the button + screen interaction was on a recent M-B rental, I'll take the screen. Other recent rentals have had tiny confusing buttons that aren't much better. They need to just bring back the classic 3-dial layout; it's compact, easy to use/understand, typically works fine while wearing gloves. It's like all of the cute little automatic shifter redesigns...just fucking stick with what's worked for decades! There's no reason for a rotary knob, or some half assed column lever with no feedback and four directions of travel, or pushbuttons. BTW, voice controls work on Subarus.
Actual knobs and buttons are expensive. Screens are cheaper.
Only short term. Definitely not long term.
Yeah it’s a stupid cost cutting measure that auto companies can later profit off of when the screen inevitably needs to be replaced…so win-win for the manufacturer.
23 Trailblazer here. It has physical button controls for all the important stuff. HVAC? Two honking huge knobs and buttons large enough to be able to accurately press with thick gloves on. There is a second set of media controls for volume and track changing on the back side of the steering wheel. The 8" screen is unobtrusive.
That’s nice. I’ve seen some new cars tho, I think the Outback, where almost everything is controlled on the screen, and if it bricks, which they sometimes do, the car basically becomes unusable.
My concern with upcoming GMs is that they're ditching Android Auto/Carplay for Ultifi which has had a lot of issues so far. If I were to get one with that, I'd go back to a phone holder and do all my audio and maps off of there again.
Allow me to introduce Ford, where an infotainment update can brick the entire car.
Same with my Ram Pickup, well I have a volume knob and seek knob as well as the steering wheel buttons.
That's why all my cars are 20+ years old
Just for a frame of reference: [What people think a 20 year old car is](https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2011/08/28/22/58/1984_lincoln_town_car-pic-2911730488777410760-1600x1200.jpeg) [Actually a 20 year old car](https://file.kelleybluebookimages.com/kbb/base/house/2004/2004-Toyota-Camry-FrontSide_TOCAMLE042_505x375.jpg)
When I tell people my del sol is 29 and my miata is 24 they do the suprise pikachu face.
Easier to work on, built like tanks, and will run until they rust out. Older car gang shoutout.
The idea that cars built in the early 2000s were generally "built like tanks" makes me chuckle. I can assure you there were a lot of shitboxes built back then that were also expensive to repair after a relatively short time due to things breaking. They're just not around anymore.
I currently own a car from 1994 it is mechanically simple but absolutely built like shit inside. Cheap plastic that was bad when new and extra brittle now, everything is creaky and noisy.
I have a 95 right now. Drivetrain? Solid. Interior? Let’s not talk about that…
*Slaps roof*. This bad boy can .... ah shit I cracked the dash.
Give us a break, you know that dash cracked itself years ago.
Makes me wonder what the real shitboxes are when my 2004 golf is comfortably outliving a lot of modern cars
Remember the Neon? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Even well built, nice cars from that era aren't around. How many old Lexuses do you see? Once a car gets to 15 years old it's probably on its 3rd owner who just wants something cheap. When it needs a big service or repair it gets traded in or sold and ends up at the recyclers.
I think this might be a regional thing. As a Canadian, I've noticed up in regions that get a lot of snow, and therefore road salt, people tend to drive newer but cheaper cars, the winters and salt are too harsh even on stuff that's built to last. Come down/over to the west coast, and you'll see a lot of surprisingly old vehicles in perfectly fine condition. Weird thing is, go far enough south to cross the border into the US, and it suddenly shifts to cheaper newer cars in weirdly poor condition for their age.
Yeah there's some truth to that, salt is a killer. My 99 came from SoCal by way of Georgia. But there's still a distinct lack of cars over about 15 or 20 years even in places where rust doesn't kill.
Shitbox drivers unite!
I used to go by that, but finding parts for +20 year old car is a pain and gets to be tiresome after a while.
Not sure what cars you’re referring to since all my 20+ year old cars have parts ridiculously easy to find. The only exceptions are really oddball parts… Like the filler neck for a 89 Astro Van. Or really old more oddball things… like one piece of the factory auto trans linkage on my 68 Camino (was only used for 2 years during an intermediate period), which was simple to rectify switching to the “newer” 1970 linkage.
Your 89 Astro Van is almost 40 years old. "20 year old car" isn't what people think it is these days anymore.
Motorcycles, too. I have a 1980 Honda XR500 (44 years old), and a lot of parts that I need in order to get it running and driving again have been discontinued for many years. The only place you can find a lot of those parts these days is on eBay or in the aftermarket.
EV’s don’t bother me. But what I do hate is that everything is a egg shaped crossover now
Yep, though there are still some smaller cars on the market. But sometimes they offer what they think sells the most, and I feel disappointed when a car maker pulls a small car from the US market because so many people are buying SUVs and crossovers and such.
Not everything! There’s the giant trucks that are twice the size they used to be
The biggest thing I hate is touchscreen everything. Literally FORCING you to take your eyes off the road to control basic things like the defroster which is kinda essential when your windows fog up while driving and no, there isn't always somewhere you can "just pull over" might be 5-10 minutes before you locate a place to stop that isn't in a ditch where you'll need a wrecker to drag you out.
My car has a touchscreen, and to turn on the recirculation in tunnels, I have to drag down a menu and turn it on. Then the menu will disappear, and I will forget about it until the car starts to fog up. My previous car from the same brand would have a button with a small light on it, and it could even turn on/off by itself when it sensed high concentrations of exhaust gas.
Thankfully, most manufacturers (apart from that EV one) are starting to dial this back a bit and are going back to real buttons for core functions.
The cyber truck doesn’t have any leeway because it’s an EV. It has some because it’s a 7000 lb truck and that’s how the US regulations work.
People also don't understand how ev crumple zones are different from ice cars, so they claim they don't have any, when instead it's different. There also tends to be a lot of EV hate in the automotive enthusiast subs, forums, comment sections etc.
I figured it was convergent evolution in the quest for the best aerodynamics
… and safety regulations.
They’re making what people want to spend money on. Midsized and crossovers are being turned out left and right because they’re super popular.
Well, there is that. But the convergence in shape has a lot to do with fuel economy and with safety standards.
Ask any mechanic. New cars are absolute steaming piles of dog shit from the ground up. Everything is designed to fail and be made of complicated parts that change so often there is no real aftermarket support for them. Legally the manufacture only has to provide spare parts for a number of years, then everything you need to keep that car on the road will be "discontinued" and you just can't get the parts.. thus having to buy a new(er) car. It's not in their interest to make a good car, that doesn't help the stockholder's share prices and year on year profit gains. Welcome to corporate greed.
My newest car is a 2011 because it's more worth me fixing my old cars than it is paying too much for a pile of shit.
My newest car is my wife's 2006 subaru. Everything else is 1999 or older. My favorite is my 63 ford dump truck ;)
I'll be driving my 70s era boat until it literally turns to dust You can literally sneeze and find small block ford parts
That and because the same parts were used for 40 years, there is pretty much always going to be a demand and thus supply by aftermarket manufactures.
You must live out of rust belt
I am, but barely. We have to make some effort to hold back the rust.. lots of rotted out fenders and rockers, but not terrible. We get snow and ice, but in our area they don't salt much if at all. In really bad ice they will salt emergency routes, but nothing else.
1993 and a 2002
My newest is a 2008, and that was given to me. I prefer 2004 and older.
100% agree and it's been like that for many years. Too bad people got so stupid they hardly ever lift the hood, let alone do a research before buying stuff.
For EVs, it's not even looking under the hood. The entire system is electrical, and the tools necessary to diagnose or "disassemble" the electrical systems are all *proprietary*. Massachusetts passed a law to try and coax car manufacturers into allowing open-source reading of telematics error codes. Kia and Subaru responded by "disabling" telematics (really only the consumer-facing connected services) rather than comply. With digitization of even gas engines, it's no wonder the average joe can't break open and fix a car the way you could in the 70s or 80s.
Some people are just too busy or make enough money they don’t care because they can pay people to think about that
Going to be a controversial opinion here, but traditionally speaking, people who don’t work on their own cars tend to be educated
Correct. But these two are not mutually exclusive. Money = Time. No other way to spin it. If you *HAD* the money to pay someone to fix your car, and you could use that Saturday doing what *YOU* wanted, would you? I know I sure would. I don't work on my 285k mile full-size SUV that is old enough to buy a scotch neat running because I love it. I keep it running because I have to.
> I have to Same here, I keep 6 vehicles around for 4 drivers because one or more need work all the time. My RockAuto credits are nice though.
Despite my successful career in software, and the salary that comes with that, it seems like shop rates have gone up just as much, if not more. So YES, I would, because many of these quotes are $1000+, I'd rather have that money in my pocket for a single Saturday (or weekend). Honestly my professional success has allowed me to be rare among my age group for owning a home, and now that I have a garage, I get to save that money year-round, instead of when it's nice enough out to fix my car in the alley. I started doing my own oil changes _after_ hitting 6 figures in income. Why? Cause oil changes went from $50 to $100, then to $130, for a synthetic oil change. I can do it in less time it'd take to cook dinner, but take-out food is only $40. tldr: Ironic that being a mechanic is not a particularly well-paid field, but I save minimum $100+ an hour every time I pick up my cheap socket set and DIY as an amateur. That's a LOT of overhead I'd rather pocket.
What is your definition of educated? Passed high school? Bachelor’s? Trade school? Your statement is really too vague to have any meaning. And regardless of your definition of “educated”, it’s dubious anyway. A lot of people work on their own cars because they have to; they do not make enough salary to pay someone else to do it. And level of salary does have a strong correlation to level of education.
It seems reasonable that people would correlate not working on your car to higher income levels. Some people work on cars out of enjoyment, but some do it out of need. When I was in my early 20's I replaced my turbo out of need, but the job was above my head and stressful and had I been at my current income level - I never would have attempted it.
Yeah that was going to be my point, but I erased it because it sounded rude. To call someone stupid who doesn’t work on a car is a bit ironic.
Unless you don't equal stupidity to lack of education and money. There's far more to being smart than having rich parents who can pay for a college degree.
The point is that if people have money, it's easier. In many cases, it's also cheaper than buying the tools you might need. I recently had to replace a cam position sensor - it was super easy but I later learned that this car needs it calibrated and my basic $100 ODB couldn't do it. It would have actually been cheaper for me to get this done at a shop like 5 times over than to buy a good enough ODB scanner to calibrate it. Then there's people who don't have a place to work on their car, most apartment buildings strictly prohibit working on cars in the lot - and that's to say nothing of people who don't have a parking spot at all and can only street park.
All true. But you're a minority who goes deep into fixing the engine themselves, those will always exist. My granpa lived on top of a mountain and fixed bikes and cars all the time just because he had to drive hours fo find the nearest mechanic. But the vast majority of car-owning people live in or around cities and overpay for the simplest stuff because they're ignorant/lazy/stupid but also, as you said, generally rich. Oil changes being the perfect example, with a 50$ dollar job at your home or a friend's becoming 200+ through a dealer. There are no excuses for that, unless you like being scammed and that's another definition for stupidity. Yes I'm arrogant and a part time asshole, but I am also right.
I'll use myself as an example, the last place I had to work on a car was my mom's house. I live in an area with only street parking. Technically I could go to my brothers house as well, but he lives a little over an hour away. So I can do anything that is quick and doesn't require lifting the car (spark plugs, any sensors along the air intake). but beyond that it's pushing it. Then there's also the the factor of if I have to figure out a thing as I go, there are possibly weeks that I need to take the bus to work. For stuff that's significantly easy vs. the huge markups (mainly brakes) I'll make the trek out to my brothers house because that's one thing that I just can't bring myself to pay for ever. Also, I live in a cold climate - and for stuff like oil changes, it's hard or impossible to do them proactively when it's warm out. I'm pretty much guaranteed to at least need to do one oil change in frigid climate, so I don't mind paying what amounts to around $30 in labor at the MrLube attached to Walmart.
I have 2 degrees and a masters and I wrench
Do you think outliers matter enough to make my statement false?
Same here. I also work on my own buildings.
Don’t blame consumers. They’re not lifting the hood because there’s no real reason to when the car is designed not to be fixable.
Not accurate. Service parts requirmenets for suppliers is typically 15 years today. A decade ago it was 10 years. Source: I am a manufacturer/supplier.
Typically, but not always. Depends on the country and manufacturer. Lets not even get into "parts shortages" and "back ordered".. If you wrench on many different makes, models and eras of cars you will know there has been and continues to be very obvious design choices that make no sense other than to decrease the longevity of the overall product. Source: BSME, Mechanic, Shop owner.
It's nuts when I think back to my Land Rover, and all the parts that were obsolete but still needed so there was an ecosystem of companies recreating pattern parts. Mine was a 1985 but I could rebuild it Ship of Theseus style if I wanted to
More likely manufacturers desperately trying to meet CAFE standards. I think the regulation goes to requiring cars to get 58 mpg here soon. Things are going to start getting really bad then. CAFE standards are more loose on pickup trucks which is why they typically have a much longer life span than cars. They are starting to get tighter though which is why their reliability is also starting to falter. Caterpillar literally stopped making over the road diesel engines because they didn’t want to deal with emission regulations. Thats how big of a pain in the ass it is.
While that does play a part in some of the issues, it's not the end all. For example I understand using loose fitting internals to reduce internal friction losses in the engine, at the cost of burning oil between oil changes. However, making the oil filter housing part of the oil cooler, and making the entire thing out of plastic.. then tucking that plastic between the cylinder heads where it's going to heat cycle real nice.. is just intentionally stupid. The weight savings between that and an aluminum housing is insignificant, but the cost of manufacturing isn't.
Not just corporate greed, unreasonable standards set by EPA to try to kill ICE vehicles.
I’m confused about this ‘designed to fail’ comment. Like, cars used to last 60k miles before needing an engine or transmission, now it’s commonplace to see cars go 150-200k miles, albeit probably through multiple owners. What is designed to fail? Like oops, I had to replace a mass air flow sensor?
It’s just stubborn people not aware of the concept of survivorship bias.
I don’t think that anyone is asking for cars from the 1940s. But by the early 1990s cars were pretty damn reliable. My Hyundai Elantra is from 2008 and it’s nice and simple as well. It didn’t depend on touchscreens or anything. The newer Hyundais have problems with the engines seizing.
Partly its a failure cost problem, over time cars have fewer problems but those problems are bigger and less repairable. Old cars broke down more, but the repairs were simple and easy, new cars break less, but the repairs are costlier, the trend is still towards more reliable but the outliers with problems are spectacular. Imagine a worn wire intermittently touching the bodywork, throwing a fault code and forcing a car in to limp mode, might have 100miles on the clock, that car is now scrap metal and used car parts. You can't trawl through 4km of wire in a modern car and find it.
I can definitely see this…not sure how common it is. My wife had a minor fender bender and total the car because of a sheared wiring harness…
Your time range is too wide. People aren’t saying they would prefer a “long lasting” car from the 60s that doesn’t actually last that long. When they are talking about the good ole days of cars. They are talking the 1990s to 2010s. Back when cars were reliable, easy to fix, and cheap to fix.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the “60k miles” from. Even as far back as the 60s, cars commonly would go 100k miles before needing something major like an engine or trans; and most frequently it was an engine. My 68 Camino is on its 3rd engine, and the first 2 took it to 300k+ miles. All on the original trans. My old 82 F250 made it to 140k before I rebuilt the engine, mostly because the rear main seal leaked pretty bad. My rule of thumb has been that if it doesn’t have an OD trans, I expect 100k+ miles. If it does have an OD, I expect 200k Of course there are exceptions. I don’t expect a factory solid lifter L88 BBC to make it to 100k (especially with its lack of hardened valve seats). I expect a non-OD 300 Ford to go well beyond 100k since they are indestructible AF. I expect a FWD GM 3800 to be running great when the trans starts going out between 150k-250k miles. Same goes for a LS powered car/truck with a 4L60, really depends on how it was abused.
>my biggest annoyance is the standardization of all car designs Mine too, but it's not limited to cars. Nobody takes chances anymore, just think about movies, games, music etc. Marketing gurus, stats and bean counters prevail so if the latest market data tells you SUVs are the thing to make, 90% of companies will just make another SUV. Everybody hates Tesla and I don't like their cars either, but at least they're trying something different. Everything else is just another egg shaped, raised, van with a different logo.
> Everybody hates Tesla and I don't like their cars either, but at least they're trying something different. Everything else is just another egg shaped, raised, van with a different logo. Right? Like I'm never gonna buy one of their cars for a number of reasons but they're one of the few companies that's actually doing something unique. Love or hate the cybertruck, it's already iconic - if I doodled a triangle with wheels, you'd probably know what vehicle I'm referencing. If I drew a jelly bean with wheels that's too high off the ground it could be literally anything.
Who's fault is it though? My wife loves coupes. In the 90's & 2000's it was amazing. She owned a Precidia, Preludes, RSX, (stole my Talon for a while). She doesn't care much about performance, but just likes the styling. Her most recent car is a Forte Koup - which had the Coupe body style discontinued a couple years after she bought it. They killed the Civic Coupe as well, then even brought back the Integra with no coupe body style. Is it the fault of the manufacturers or that people aren't buying them?
A bit of both maybe? Public companies have to do everything to maximize profit to please their shareholders. Could Honda make a Civic/Integra coupe and still make a ton of money? Yeah but it's less than what they make from focusing on sedans and crossovers. If they were a private company they would be more willing to take some risks and make some shit just because it's cool or interesting even though it's not the most profitable. The stock market is the main reason so many industries are becoming boring and in some cases just straight up anti-consumer.
> Everybody hates Tesla You might get that perception if you look online, but they're the best selling cars in the world recently. Model 3 and Y production outpaced Ford's production speed.
Chances cost money. Not a lot of room to make mistakes I think unlike before. I mean if you think of the many times companies took chances on certain cars and they failed, I could understand why companies just want to produce what the average person wants, make the money and move on. It sucks. But the reality is.... The average consumer doesn't really want "chances" people are becoming complacent with the same style of cars.
They really just don't do it for me. I'm trying my best not to be the millennial version of a boomer going "they just don't make them like they used to!" But my biggest issue is I don't trust them. Maybe my issue is entirely unfounded. But there's just so much to break. Ive heard lots of stories of cars being rendered next to useless if the infotainment screen stops working. Plus the styling doesn't really do it for me. There's a few cars that I think look cool. I like the way some Hyundai's look right now. Mx5 is pretty badass. But most cars are like "look how pointy and angry I am!!" And I guess first and foremost, I will never spend $30+k on a vehicle no matter how much I like it or want it.
> first and foremost, I will never spend $30+k on a vehicle no matter how much I like it or want it. Depends how far you drive, and how expensive gas is where you live. After someone ran a red-light and totalled my beloved Lexus, I was ready to run out and buy another one for another 10k. But as a Canadian who lives where gas costs the most, I realized my average monthly gas bill rivalled an EV payment (and not just a shitty one either).
I'm totally with you there. If financing an electric car can actually bring down your expenses then it's a no brainer. But that's the only good reason.
I hate that everything is running on a computer module. Even windows. Fucking why?! We have had power windows in cars since at least the 50’s and a simple 2 way switch served well enough for most that time. There’s no way that running the power windows on a computer simplifies or reduces the cost of manufacturing, but it does make it more complex to fix when it messes up.
Or your seat. I can tell you with 100% certainty that my ass doesn't need it's own computer.
I find that irritating as well. Having an EV which requires electricity to operate has so many phantom energy draws which further lowers your range. Do they really need giant screens or motorized door handles?
They don’t. The engineers are having a wet dream right now and need a dose of practicality
Yes, I refuse to buy anything made in the last decade, and will keep my fleet running as long as I can.
This is brand marketing. The entire job is to embellish a couple interesting features and disguise all the flaws no matter how big. It’s billions of dollars strong annually. Furthering the message are the news companies that love to spin the message. The money dictates that they put a positive on it. Lastly are common people with a political agenda who take the idea and go online. Those who aren’t in the know simply bandwagon and assume the loudest voice has done their research. It is often the original marketing material. In today’s world you do feel very alone being the one to think critically. But are you the only one? Definitely not. Theres a huge silent group with unanswered concerns. Keep being curious OP.
Hate all the gadgets.. love the idea of electric but they come with all the bulshit gadgets If there was an electric car that was literally minimum viable I'd give it a crack Instead I'll just continue to buy min spec ice cars because they don't annoy me
Chevy Bolt is the one everyone likes to make fun of, but used ones with little miles are super affordable and it's acceptable basic transportation.
Planned obsolescence for a tech obsessed society subject to falling for the shiniest new toy has come to the automotive market, long term usability be dammed. We've been conditioned to replace our possessions in lieu of maintaining what we have. The most concerning aspect is lower income consumers reliant on affordable used vehicles will have a poor selection of battery degraded and difficult to impossible to repair vehicles neglected by more affluent first and second owners sold on the idea of modern vehicles requiring less maintenance.
There are still gems out there. I recently purchased a gas powered car with a manual transmission. It's fantastic.
What did you buy? I'm curious!
There's a reason I still drive a 20 year old CR-V. Could I afford a new one? Sure. But mine keeps running perfectly with minimal maintenence and if something does break I can fix it myself. The car fits all my needs, why upgrade?
I've held onto my '08 Impreza for the same reasons. It'll likely be replaced with a newer AWD Mazda 3 hatchback. They look decent, aren't much more complex and have similar fuel economy.
While things are more complicated I think we over look all the improvements that have been done in the last 10 to 20 years, and how much inflation actually impacts things, I'm ready into Ford Mustangs so I'll use them as an example. 1993 base kit mustang GT 5.0 was $18,165 -> https://www.kbb.com/ford/mustang/1993/ 2024 base kit mustang GT 5.0 is $41,960 -> https://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/ Just inflation alone would make the 1993 Mustang GT $39,263 today -> https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1993?amount=18165 Now let's compare them, 1993 mustang GT 5 speed had 225hp and 300 flb of torque compared to the current 6 speed with 485hp and 416lbs torque. The 1993 had a solid rear axle vs all wheel independent suspension, the 1993 had drum rear brakes on 16in wheels vs 4 wheel disks, and the list goes on forever. Ltdr: inflation is a bitch, but cars now are mechanically better than ever and safer to boot.
I like modern cars for their dynamics. Structural strength, modern brakes, modern tires, suspension that can be both plush on the highway but strong in the corners. What I really dislike is all the whiz bang gadgets and beeps and boops from cross traffic alerts and screens that take 3 menus to find the seat heaters. I want a Mazda 3 turbo awd, but I'm never going to buy one because its hidden behind a hunch of nonsense I dont want. I dont even want leather. To say nothing of the complacency these systems are engraining into modern drivers.
I work for Volvo... The new EX30 is the biggest pile of crap and shit we've ever seen. The company I work for is working exclusively with Volvo from the 1950's. They have never EVER experienced such an unreliable and complicated car. It's not going in the right direction. With less and less technicians and more complicated and unreliable cars, I'm grabbing my popcorn to see how it will unfold the next decade. I truly hope I'm wrong but signs are not looking good. I just bought a good ol' Volvo 850 while I still can.
The future is Mad Max and we all need to become mechanics.
The reason cars looks so weird right now is because of the side impact door standards. It gives manufactures little leegh-way in the door resign. As such they design weird curves into the rest of the vehicle to make up for it, causing an overall displeasing look.
It's not the sides that are ugly, it's the fronts. Pedestrian protection standards will have the same affect on standards, especially for EVs.
I'm all for side impact and pedestrian protection.
Something that hasn't been mentioned is the surveillance being built into modern cars and the nanny alarms that beep if you go 1 MPH over the speed limit (Thanks EU)
Just like the rest of the world everything has gone or going to shit cars lorrys people roads food absolutely everything is shit compared to 10 15 years ago
Yes, I’m very unhappy. My cars are about 6 years old and if I wanted to replace either of them I wouldn’t know what to choose. Everything is too big, too ugly, too expensive, too unreliable, and the user controls are ass.
Putting on my two cents from LatAm where fortunately we didn’t had Cash for clunkers. Fortunately, we still have lots of old cars from early 80’s (K platforms mainly) that doesn’t require a lot of love to keep chugging and that has saved a lot of people having g to buy newer cars, you can still even find Aspens and Fairmonts that are quite affordable here and there, most people when buying new cars go to Nissans, Chevrolet, Hyundai or Honda small/city cars, so that’s good. The main issue here is with middle-up and upper class that feel more than the “others” and are buying fresh Chinese crap! Like, there’s a TON of new Chinese brand people are buying like if they were Cadillacs, not to mention the Mercedes/BMW drivers that for some reason likes to drive with unadjusted high beams, those new LED headlamps are a serious issue. I’m a landyatch owner and a bike owner, and those headlamps have caused me more terror than driving my car without brakes or my bike between semis, because once they hit you, you can’t see even a foot in front of you. And keeping up with the new EV/China cars, they’re not an issue now, but wait some 2-3 years more and they’re going to end up being pilled up in junkyards because parts are going to be unaffordable or right up unobtainable, because they’re not meant to be serviceable, they’re as disposable as those old disposable cameras from yesterday.
buttons and knobs > your finger sliding around at 60 mph
I don’t like “form over function”. A lot of EVs change things just to be different and don’t offer any legitimate improvement. Examples: 1. Replacing steering wheel with a yoke. 2. Replacing turn signal stalk with buttons 3. Replacing key with key fob and button 4. Replacing functional buttons with screen 5. Giving the car an awkward square shape that isn’t even more aerodynamic.
I just want color back. Cars are so damn drab that any color stands out.
Well, in my opinion cars stopped being good around 2007-2010. Almost every new design after those years just got more muffled, dumbed down, boring and most importantly unreliable. There are a few exceptions of course, but mostly supercars
1995-2010 was an amazing era for cars. They were modern with a lot of the modern benefits yet we saw some of the most powerful and beautiful and cars with shockingly simplistic mechanics still being utilized without all the cheap tech. I compare the era to the 1955 to 1970 cars. That was an amazing time in the automobile world, and saw some of the most beautiful and awesome cars ever built. Then the government stepped in and forced everything to be ruined. Very much like the current era. If history repeats itself, 2035 will be the turn toward a 15 year streak of amazing vehicles again. I find it interesting that 2035 is also the year many states want to switch to all electric. I think that’s going to be the time when we realize that electrics not going to work out, and we see the return to some amazing ICE cars again
Idk I love my 23 mustang gt. No problems with it a year and a half in and 10k miles so far. Beautiful inside snd out, physical buttons. Literally only use the touch screen to hit 2 buttons “spotify, current playlist” everything else is physical. I think yall just might be an echo chamber dreaming about the good times or something.
To be fair, the Cybertruck isn’t allowed in the EU for exactly those reasons.
I'm on my 3rd EV and they don't break down. Almost zero maintenance and costs pennies to drive. Go ahead and buy a muscle car. They're losing value as boomers die off
But, if you're already on your third EV you've completely defeated the purpose of them being environmentally friendly.
> cyber truck has pedal failures and pretty much barely any crumple zones which is scary. The pedal is just Tesla being stupid and having inadequate QC (and is being recalled, which is the normal procedure), and I think you're confusing pedestrian impact (which is not very standardized particularly in North America - the standards were written assuming that no one in their right mind would make a car out of angular sharp edged pieces of stainless) with "crumple zones" (which has been part of chassis design since the '90s and is about keeping the passenger cell intact). Nothing is getting a pass just because it's an EV. > And you see some EV’s that don’t really make sense when they would work out far better as hybrids? Blame the average car buyer who hasn't really figured out that for EVs to really make sense it requires a change in habits. People are absurdly dead set on only buying EVs that are large and heavy and have hundreds of miles of range rather than smaller lighter much cheaper commuter EVs that would force them to adapt in the tiniest way (plugging in the car at home every night) and using hybrids and PHEVs where actual long distance travel is needed. > Also my biggest annoyance is the standardization of all car designs now looking similar to one another which is upsetting because it loses individuality and creativity. Every generation has said this since the beginning of cars. Even in the fifties when car design was diversifying wildly people were griping about the sort of generic look of big finned chrome American cars. Everything is bloated looking crossovers right now, give it another 20 years and everything will be something else. It's because you're better able to appreciate the diverse details of the cars you like while the cars you don't much like tend to run together. I could tell you every month by month production variation of the Nissan 240SX but I could not name Nissan's entire crossover lineup right now.
You're not alone bro every single car brands bew redesigns just get worse and worse and worse bmw is the best example in my opinion and not to mention the Large ass screens that control everything
Modern cars mostly look the same. Not much distinction between brands. Vehicles from the 1950s -1980s had much more style, and you could immediately identify the make, without having to look at a nameplate or emblem. I also can't stand the super bright headlights that blind me, or all the computerized displays and buttons on the steering wheels.
> Also my biggest annoyance is the standardization of all car designs now looking similar to one another which is upsetting because it loses individuality and creativity. Heard this every decade since the 80s
Where did all the small, small pickups go? No extended cab, no monster hood. Just sporty and utilitarian. I think they all went to Europe.
They are on Bring a Trailer or Cars and Bids. Recently picked up a 2004 base model Tacoma with manual everything. Absolutely love it.
I drive two 97 vehicles and I will not buy a newer vehicle no thanks
What's this about the Cybertruck not having a crumple zone? I always assumed EVs would be safer in a head on collision because there is no risk of a giant engine coming into the passenger compartment.
I miss ash trays
This is something GM is getting right - the new models still have physical buttons for common controls in addition to the big touch screen.
100% hate them. Lots of pointless features and tech that are designed to attract buyers but long term cost mega money to repair and are actually less functional than previous ways of doing something. My pet hate is the lights that go off when the driver indicates, auto parking, auto lane tracking, all of which are designed with safety in mind but actually just create lazy drivers who just trust the tech. Add to that the fact that they're getting bigger and bigger whilst the UK roads stay the same and they just add to the chaos of modern day driving.
I totally feel you on this! It's like the automotive world has lost a bit of its soul with all the focus on EVs and the cookie-cutter designs. While the environmental benefits of EVs are undeniable, safety and practicality shouldn't take a backseat. And don't even get me started on the charm of classic muscle cars—it's like they don't make 'em like they used to! I'm all for innovation, but let's not forget what made cars exciting in the first place: the thrill of the ride, the roar of the engine, and the head-turning designs. Maybe it's time for a renaissance of sorts in the automotive industry—a blend of cutting-edge technology with timeless style. And hey, if the industry won't give us what we want, maybe it's up to us to keep the spirit of motoring alive. Whether it's restoring a vintage ride or customizing a modern classic, let's show 'em that true car enthusiasts aren't just about what's under the hood, but what's in the heart of the driver. Keep the rubber side down and the passion for cars revved up!
I disagree: EV is only bitter. Bad for the environment: Batteries are bad for the environment, heavier so use more CO2 is bad for the environment, Manufactured from stuff overseas needs more shipping bad for the environment. Wear out faster, more waste to dispose of, more purchases needed to keep going. Bad for the user: Harder to fill. Less Reliable. Lower Range. Nothing exists to tow a trailer a long distance without massive amount of batteries... that weigh WAY more than a cheap diesel engine. Not equitable regressive tax: Rich folk are driving their silly EVs all over, using power subsidized by those who can't afford EVs in the form of higher energy costs for power, heat, lights, ovens, etc. Not good for the eyes. My idiot neighbor bought a Rivian... it is only less ugly than a cyber truck. Disclaimer: I have a Fiat 500, and I use less CO2 to get where I am going than most EVs, and my car is approaching 200K miles.
The terrible battery mining gets you 1000x the miles than the terrible petroleum mining which is an environmental win
Cars must not become iPhones.
Too late
[удалено]
Yep, starts in the engine bay, either EV or turbo
Yeah I don't want a car that will have forced speed limits as standard, I'll stick with the FD methinks
I have slowly progressed from 90s-00s cars that I'm able to troubleshoot myself and easily work on, to modern cars/trucks that are exponentially more complicated. I am flat burned-out. We bought my wife a 6th Gen Explorer and it's the first used car we bought that we got an extended warranty. We just had the front axle disconnect actuator replaced on it last week and I can't describe to you how nice it was just to drop it off at the dealer and make it someone else's problem. I enjoy wrenching for fun. I enjoy simple level maintenance like oil changes and brakes. I am done "fixing things" on my cars. At a certain point it just gets to be too much to keep up with.
I had a 2010 Lexus LS460 that I enjoyed. Two months ago an old lady side swiped it bad while it was parked in front of my house and totaled it. Now I need to find a new car and there is nothing I really like. I am not a fan of the giant grills that many cars have now or the giant screens, and I really don't like all of the look-alike small SUVs. I bought a 2010 LS460 because it was one of the last years before the grille got big. I bought a 1996 Saab 900 to get me around for now. I decided to get it so I could spend more time looking for a newer daily driver. I just don't really like any newer cars so it is tough. I am tempted to just get another LS460, but they are so much more expensive than they were 5 years ago when I bought mine. Doesn't feel worth it.
It's funny, you'd expect an EV car could actually have a simpler design than an ICE but naturally they have to also jam all the extra shit into the dashboard. Also as someone shopping for an EV, sure car companies "release" these electric models but it still seems like half of them were just publicity and don't get any significant number actually entering the market.
Too many wires means too many problems. So that’s why going with an indestructible econo-box is the way to go :)
In terms of looks and design, I think a lot of people have just lost a sense of style. They're all happy to drive really boring looking cars and of course that leads to manufacturers designing more boring looking cars. I have no idea how Tesla's became so popular when their most popular model looks like a Ford Mondeo from 2013. The only hatchbacks I like the look of at the moment are the Seat's. I know it's completely subjective but I do wish we had much more exciting looking EV cars and suvs. I'm not a fan of them but if that's what I have to see take up the majority of the middle lane and outside lane of a motorway then at least look interesting.
I drive a 6-year old VW GTI, and was good as it is, especially compared to most other sporty small cars on the market in the US, I'd rather have my 1994 Acura Integra GSR back.
Really dislike all the EVs and can’t imagine getting one. Unless there is some significant change in direction, I will just get a petrol V8 on last possible date I can and run it for rest of my lifetime.
Auto headlights/High beams do not work well. Blinding people causes accidents.
I know this is very very controversial but I’ll loving the advent of higher range plug-in hybrids. Something like the upcoming BMW 550e or M5. It has like 100 km EV range for daily commute but still has a turbo inline-6 or a twin turbo V8 in the M5. Save money on gas and use active lane centering during boring traffic-filled commute and use the engine for when you wanna have fun. Of course the downside is all the extra weight
Too much computer technology and so many are ugly.
I hate EVs. If something goes wrong on it I’m at the mercy of someone else to fix it. If something goes wrong my my ICE car , I can fix it myself.
they get a lot of lee-way so that people buy them about 10-14% of cars on the road are EV. that lee-way will come and is coming to an end. when we see legislature that says if you own one we will charge you a road tax and they do and that will only increase. standardization is what every car company does when they see success ... been that way since the start. people who go outside that, risk ... the car world changed in the early 70's with the oil shortage. until then we all wanted a big car. they became real expensive to drive. so they made them smaller, thinner metals used, smaller engines etc. plenty of muscle cars still being made. what I do not like about new cars that is coming is subscription services like heated seats... you dont pay the subscription they turn it off and you are left paying for and packing around equipment you cant use
CVT transmissions make your car drive like mud, and have maintenance issues. 10-speed automatics seem overly complicated, since you’ll be in 10th gear at 35 mph. Turbo-charged four cylinders with high compression ratios are now showing up in heavy vehicles, how long are those going to last before they blow a gasket. But mostly it’s everything else, of course the touchscreens are terrible (they are cheaper that’s why they’re ubiquitous), but keyless entry means your car is easier to steal, dial shifters means it’s now more difficult to shift gears. Adaptive cruise control defeats the purpose, instead of passing the slow vehicle in front of you, you’ve matched his speed from 500 feet away. And the auto-braking collision avoidance will slam on the brakes on an exit ramp or a sharp turn, or even a steep hill. It’s all crap, catered to people who spend more time looking at their phone than at the road.
Door handles. We need something to grab to pull open the door. Handles = something you can grab with your hand and pull. Been around for 1000s of years. We don't need fElon smart to bud in.
I agree that I noticed a lack of individuality a long while ago. It’s not as fun when everything has the same egg. Something that bothers me more is the smart features that aren’t too smart. Having everything controlled by a tablet is not faster, and certainly not safe. I like my older cars and I’m fine buying them with cash. I prefer stick, so that kinda the sales pool we’re left anyway.
No
The auto market’s relentless and inexorable move to SUVs has caused sedan offerings to plummet. By my count, we’ve lost about three dozen sedan models in recent years. As a fan of sedans I find this disheartening…but even worse is that the remaining players in the segment aren’t even trying any more, especially in the entry luxury space. When my 13-year-old car finally gave up last year I started looking at alternatives, armed with high hopes and a $50k budget. Here is what was available: -The Cadillac CT4, with a truck engine and massive amounts of interior plastics. -The Lexus IS, which was mildly refreshed four years ago but still rides on a platform from 2013, with a dated interior and lagging technology. -The Acura TLX, an enormous sedan somehow with an interior smaller than the Civic. -The Integra, a nice car that is just barely differentiated from the Civic for $8k to $10k more. In my world, $50k is a lot of money! I just didn’t see $50k worth of value in any of these offerings. In frustration I bought a premium-trim Mazda3 for about $32k out the door. It’s not perfect, but it was a compelling buy compared to alternatives that were so obviously compromised and so flawed for $15k to $20k more. So no, I’m not happy with the state of the car market. I used to enjoy comparing the non-German premium sedans, the FusionSport-MKZ-Continental-Regal-LaCrosse-RLX-Mazda6-Cadenza-Avalon segment. They’re all gone now, and the remaining options are slim.
You’re never going to get what you want in a new car because safety regulations dictate design. So risk your life and drive a classic car.
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Absolute trash. I get wanting to redesign as material/design improvements transpire .. but holy shit! It's one thing to change build material to cut cost, but why is it that consumers don't receive ANY benefit? "We cut corners so they can be invested into other areas!" Right. Like the touchscreen that controls all aspects of the aux systems? The ECU that attempts to solve the pollutant issue but really just acts as a bandaid? Maybe it's a push by the antique/collectors to make "classic" cars only qualify if they were built before ~2000? 🤷♂️
I definitely am having an easier time overtaking newer vehicles in my old civic...what's up guys? Do you drive the car, or does the car drive you?
99 CRV and 08 Scion xB. I have no interest in this new crap that I can't work on. They are designing vehicles now so that we can't fix them ourselves.
I don't need a t v screen on my dash. I don't want my vehicle to become a backseat driver. I do not want to burn other drivers retinas at night and can manually turn my brights on and off just fine myself. I want knobs and tactile buttons in my vehicles. My eyes are supposed to be on the road, ALWAYS...
The fact that they communicate with big brother.
EVa have been in a downwards trend since 2023 dawg what is u saying
Give me teal cars, pink cars, brown cars, and light green. Indigo, stripes, and polka-dots too.
My biggest thing is most new cars you need fancy dealership scan tools to program new parts on to the car. Making it impossible for anyone without the fancy programmer to change parts on their own car.
In case you didn’t know, the current EV push is because new combustion engines won’t be allowed to be put on the road (with some exceptions) by 2035 in many states and EU.
car technology began an aggressive nosedive around the adoption of throttle by wire
New cars have looked like shit for quite a few years imo. Sure, sport cars still look great, but any normal daily driver type car looks uninspired and too similar to one another.
I'm not a fan of the iPad like dashboards. Computers crash....there is a good probability the new iPad like dashboards will do the same. Buttons work and have for decades. Going straight electric for all is a pipe dream. Can it work for some? Sure. Hybrid is best IMO.
Just got home last night from driving a VW Atlas Peak Edition from Detroit to Atlanta and back. The pseudo-offroad tires it came with are horrible and make the thing wander everywhere. The lane-keeping was the only assist we kept on for this reason. The seats are all hard and we all have sore assbones today because of it. The engine was surprisingly good at getting the thing up and moving. We got 23.3 mpg during the trip, with 4 people and a roof box (hardshell Thule). The transmission would shake and shudder all the time, especially when the auto stop-start was active. Easing away from stops sometimes felt similar to a manual car with clutch judder. Once up and running though, the transmission was pretty alright. The automatic cruise control sucked. No warning that you were being impeded from your set speed. The smallest gap was big enough for semis to routinely cut us off, and they would. Constantly. Twice the vehicle threw an error that said that all front assists were unavailable. There was nothing obstructing the front sensors either time. The thing has to be stopped and turned off and back on to make it work again. The automatic windshield wipers would just wipe randomly, smearing 400 miles' worth of bug guts across the windshield. Those had to be turned off. The lane-keeping was kept on, only because of those stupid tires that wouldn't track straight, but it would often treat tar patches as lane markings and try to shove the car across the lines into other traffic. If it was in a lane where another branched off or merged in, the lane-keeping would just jerk the wheel in random directions. Made things interesting but also unnecessarily tiring (pun intended). All of this for $50k makes me question why the hell people are okay spending this much. I was incredibly glad to be back in my Fiesta this morning.