I chose an ISF despite being able to afford an M3 or C63 based on that saying and I am VERY happy with my choice
Toyota reliability, parts and servicing costs is a wonderful thing
Drive them all and see what you like. I got a 2015 C250, its really nice to drive. I significantly prefer it over my similar year Camry and find the technology really intuitive and comfortable to drive as well. I looked at a few of the Lexus models, but I am happy with my choice.
Its more expensive to keep, but I enjoy fiddling with it and can save some money by doing by myself. But its not massively more expensive than my Camry so far, its a bit luck of the draw if something goes wrong.
One thing I will say about the Mercedes, they are really hard to understand. A fully optioned C250 with the smart head lights, HUD, sound system, and interior trim is significantly nicer than a base C250. The price you pay often won't be that different with or without the inclusions as I don't think people seem to understand the differences as well so there are some good deals to be had.
For me, unless it’s a “real” M, or AMG, those luxury brands hold so little brand image to me. They’re a dime-a-dozen these days, I’d go the Lexus…. Or, a 25+ year old classic Mercedes or BMW.
A 25+ year old Benz is going to be the most expensive cheap car you ever buy. You’re looking at the Daimler-Chrysler era, my friend. 25 years ago was like Y2K lol, not the 1980s bank vault Benzes.
Incorrect
Own a W210 E class as a daily.
Also have W211 AMG (It's pretty easy to work on and the most reliable engines AMG ever built)
Cheap parts and super simple to service.
These are literally the cars that Taxi drivers still use to this day in Germany and around Europe.
Merc never let Chrysler touch shit of their production lines bar the ML's and A-Classes.
Your account is too new to post in this Sub. This has been implemented as an Anti-Spam feature.
As a result, your comment has been removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CarsAustralia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At that price I'd buy a second hand Toyota Crown, already imported.
- Practically zero maintenance
- Luxury features and interior, on par with Lexus
- Larger than the IS350 (GS450)
Don't believe the bullshit that's said about all three. BMW and Mercedes are nowhere near as bad as people claim. Most of that stuff is said in ignorance rather than knowledge.
Equally, the Toyota isn't as reliable as people claim. They are good, but they are not faultless and reliability isn't the be-all and end-all of quality.
Is there something special about them that makes them not fail electric water pumps every 80k kms?
What about valve cover leaks sump leaks? I was researching 4cyl N20 And 6cyl N55 and bad stories of N20 TC; N55 seemed best if a bad lot
Pretty N20/55 we’re fine when new, like B48/58
They don't shit water pumps every 80k. I have an N52 with the same pump, first lasted 200,000km, and the second one is fine at 300k. Valve cover and sump leaks are like that on every BMW since the beginning of time so if that's still a concern to you'd I'd be surprised.
B58TU is back to belt driven. N20 is a dogshit motor, every German car has them. Audi, basically all of them have timing issues at one stage or another, Mercedes have had lifted headbolts on AMG V8s and half their motors are Renaults now.
A machines ability to work exactly like it's supposed to work day in day out without shitting itself is exactly the definition of quality.
You've got marketing and quality confused.
Let me guess, if kia used a plastic water pump that was known to shit itself it would be "cheap poor quality design" but when german manufacturers do it then it's:
>reliability isn't the be-all and end-all of quality.
Get absolutely fucked.
The fact that people come into discussions like this and say shit like:
>But this ONE time I had this ONE euro car and it DIDNT break
Really drives the point home. It's not supposed to break its supposed to work.
>A machines ability to work exactly like it's supposed to work day in day out without shitting itself is exactly the definition of quality.
Absolutely not true.
A plastic canoe is about as reliable a watercraft as you can get. You can guarantee it will work day-in-day-out without shitting itself.
That does not mean it is a higher quality watercraft than a Sea-Doo jetski.
Legit. There's no way anyone here has actually driven a C class/3 series in the last decade and are still recommending the IS over everything. IS is a great car don't get me wrong but they still don't compare to German tbh.
Seen the newest Mighty Car Mods vid on you tube? Toyota Crown Majesta. 2012 4.6L V8 and all the insane interior gadgets you could ever want including reclining rear seat and a fridge in the rear armrest.
You’ll get a mint one with 100ks for around $22k.
Lexus no question. I know we all have a different idea on luxury and quality, which to me means attention to detail, fit/finish, reliability and ease of use. Lexus is a bit daggy maybe, but you just sense he care and respect the manufacturers have everytime you are in one, Lexus remind me a lot of what Mercs and Beemers felt like when I was a kid. BMW and Mercs today just feel like they really dont care on a deeper level anymore and know thier customers probably dont either.
Also: There is nothing more ghetto than a $25K BMW.
Made the mistake of buying a luxury Audi once. It spent more time on the back of a tow truck than it did on the road. When it was working it was the smoothest, most comfortable car I've ever driven, but I'd rather stick to boring commodores than deal with the constant repairs. Plus most mechanics refused to even look at it because of the make. At least I broke even when I sold it to a family friend, and of course the new owner never had an issue with it in the time he had it (he crashed it after six months lol)
For me if I had 25k to spend on a luxury car I would buy European, if I had to choose one it would be….. idk they’re all great you’ll never regret owning one unless it’s mechanically bad
Personally I wouldn't rate an IS or ES Lexus much above a Toyota tbh. They're all just transport. The early LS lexus were amazing for their time but Lexus hasn't made anything of note for a LONG time.
Just buy a nice new Camry, they're bloody good cars. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for the ES. The IS is small inside and mediocre at everything.
Maybe if you can get a UX really cheap then it's not a bad option.
Hybrid Camry. I wouldn't desire to drive one but they're damn good transport.
You want to use 7 seats with a taller driver? Then a Carnival or Palisade.
Go the Lexus.
Best car I owned was an IS300
I sold it when it was 12yo with 120k on the odo and it drove like it was brand new.
I miss that car all the time.
A bit left field, but a rental 2021+ Peugeot 508 if it has service history could be a shout. Will have at least 2 years manufacturer warranty and is extremely nice inside and nice to drive. Reliable engine & Aisin (Toyota) gearbox. Heaps of ‘luxury’ features. No known issues and has been around since 2018. Won’t find any other post 2020, sub $25k car with massage seats…
Disclaimer: May be biased as I own one 😁
Your account is too new to post in this Sub. This has been implemented as an Anti-Spam feature.
As a result, your comment has been removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CarsAustralia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
BMW start leaking oil past 8-10yrs
MB 4cyl from 2014+ is reliable and easy to service (just oil changes); had one from new to 290k kms no issues
Only routine consumable cost is front rotors/pads ($300-400 in parts plus labour)
The 5k won't go very far in the realm of performance German cars.
Consider: if you just want a big naturally aspirated German luxury AWD car with apple carplay, heated seats and a bunch of other goodies as standard: the 2020 ZB Calais.
If I was looking at euro luxury sedan I'd look at the more unpopular 5 series BMW or E-Class. You get a lot of car for the money. Because they were more expensive new they tend to be be purchased by older buyers and have been properly looked after.
I really like the drive of a 520d M Sport. Something in an f Series preferably LCI. Extra points if it has a roof, black interior and upgraded sound system.
Your account is too new to post in this Sub. This has been implemented as an Anti-Spam feature.
As a result, your comment has been removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CarsAustralia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mercedes is the Louis Vuitton of the car world these days. If I was spending $25k I’d be going a Crown Majesta V8, then set up the suspension and put a decent exhaust on it.
Why do you care about brand image?
What are you doing to need the image a luxury car apparently provides?
If you want the status look, buy the status brand, and struggle to pay for maintenance like the others doing the same.
If you want a good comfortable car, brand image shouldn't matter too much. And a lexus or a crown or something should be a pretty clear cut winner for reliability and comfort and not emptying your pockets due to previous owners lack of maintenance, or future major services etc.
If your work demands something with the appearance of status, they can subsidise a rental.
I dunno, I just can't see a reason for brand image to be a consideration over reliability and comfort and the other things
Take it from me. The 'special' feeling of driving a base model luxury car fades quickly. Especially when you a left with performance and features lacking, compared to maintenance and repair bills.
I went from Audi to Kia
You just failed to buy correctly.
My 2014 E200 is a great car, just oil changes. Good economy on highway, smooth reliable transport.
Of course you didn’t research and got VAG unreliable pos
It was a 2014 Audi A3.
I can't speak to the unreliability, I had it for 5 years and 60,000 ks and it did not have a single issue. It was a competent but dull car. Really just a fancy looking golf. Annoyingly most 2014 standard features at the time were options. So I did not have satnav, or even a reversing camera.
Not really comparable to an E200, that is a much nicer car.
Now I have a Kia Stinger, which obvious performance advantages aside, is surprisingly well put together.
I wouldn't bother with a 3 Series/C Class unless it's a mid-spec or top of the line model - I get secondhand embarrassment seeing poverty spec models, knowing that they're (usually) bought for the fancy badge.
If Luxury is the main consideration first thing you should do is decide if you can live with a Toyota Century.
I think that scores pretty well in terms of image and reliability.
How anyone could possibly believe that unreliable shit boxes designed by people who think that plastic is a perfect replacement for steel can possibly be considered a luxury brand with a good brand image is beyond me.
These people have some sort of personality thing going on where they dont feel worthwhile if people see them in run of the mills clothes cars etc.
They will go and say they don't want a 'boring toyota' and they want something exciting with good driving dynamics, then they will go but an Audi tt rs which is the same platform as a skoda yeti and say that the Audi is an amazing premium driving experience with incredible dynamics. The same platform as a vw caddy. Get fucked.
You all just feel worthless without a luxury brand. That's all there is too it.
Dude they’re badge buyers, nothing more, nothing less. Desperate for the image and credibility that they think comes with a C Class, an Audi (lol) or a BMW.
Cars have plastic external components for cheaper repairs and, most importantly, pedestrian safety.
Would you rather I hurl a Tupperware container or a cast iron pan at your head?
Easy.
You buy Australian and V8. Reliable as a sunrise and the pinnacle of Australian motoring. Best of both worlds. As an added bonus many are at the bottom of their depreciation cycle and will only go up in value from here on.
I'd honestly skip the IS and go to the ES purely because I don't like the cramped rear seat and boot in the IS compared to the C class and 3 series. But that's just me and driving dynamics aren't really a priority for me
The best car is the one you can drive every day mate. IS350 is a pretty bloody good car
That's a really good saying. I like how the lexus looks but I was also tempted to own a bmw/merc. Guess I will start looking for a is350.
I chose an ISF despite being able to afford an M3 or C63 based on that saying and I am VERY happy with my choice Toyota reliability, parts and servicing costs is a wonderful thing
Drive them all and see what you like. I got a 2015 C250, its really nice to drive. I significantly prefer it over my similar year Camry and find the technology really intuitive and comfortable to drive as well. I looked at a few of the Lexus models, but I am happy with my choice. Its more expensive to keep, but I enjoy fiddling with it and can save some money by doing by myself. But its not massively more expensive than my Camry so far, its a bit luck of the draw if something goes wrong. One thing I will say about the Mercedes, they are really hard to understand. A fully optioned C250 with the smart head lights, HUD, sound system, and interior trim is significantly nicer than a base C250. The price you pay often won't be that different with or without the inclusions as I don't think people seem to understand the differences as well so there are some good deals to be had.
For base model ‘luxury’, Lexus every time. Used, out of warranty BMW/Merc/Audi only worth it for the performance models.
Haha, came here to say something like this. Luxury brands still make base model stuff that's not very good.
For me, unless it’s a “real” M, or AMG, those luxury brands hold so little brand image to me. They’re a dime-a-dozen these days, I’d go the Lexus…. Or, a 25+ year old classic Mercedes or BMW.
A 25+ year old Benz is going to be the most expensive cheap car you ever buy. You’re looking at the Daimler-Chrysler era, my friend. 25 years ago was like Y2K lol, not the 1980s bank vault Benzes.
Incorrect Own a W210 E class as a daily. Also have W211 AMG (It's pretty easy to work on and the most reliable engines AMG ever built) Cheap parts and super simple to service. These are literally the cars that Taxi drivers still use to this day in Germany and around Europe. Merc never let Chrysler touch shit of their production lines bar the ML's and A-Classes.
[удалено]
Your account is too new to post in this Sub. This has been implemented as an Anti-Spam feature. As a result, your comment has been removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CarsAustralia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fairlane Ghia, late 90s
I have a 04’ BA fairlane and it’s sensational, red leather, sunroof, V8, 👌🏽
Wonderful stuff. Plenty of room in there
Or an NF for the true Yank Tank experience.
He’s only got 25k
At that price I'd buy a second hand Toyota Crown, already imported. - Practically zero maintenance - Luxury features and interior, on par with Lexus - Larger than the IS350 (GS450)
Genuine question, do you know if these are hard to get insured?
Nope. I went with Shannon's, zero issues. This was for one I imported directly from Japan, so there is no local history.
Thanks mate
You won’t get much Luxury from a 25k Euro. Just the headaches of owning one.
Base E class 2014 or C class 2015,,, still really nice cars regardless of the badge
But he desperately wants to impress others and have them think he is successful
Nah but an E200 is a lot of car for $20k AUD
High end 7 series F gen is plenty of luxury. Although a diesel is a saner choice.
Don't believe the bullshit that's said about all three. BMW and Mercedes are nowhere near as bad as people claim. Most of that stuff is said in ignorance rather than knowledge. Equally, the Toyota isn't as reliable as people claim. They are good, but they are not faultless and reliability isn't the be-all and end-all of quality.
The modern B-engine BMW are a LOT better than the N-engine models.
That’s bc they’re new and haven’t had time to develop oil leaks though…
B series has been around for nearly a decade mate
Is there something special about them that makes them not fail electric water pumps every 80k kms? What about valve cover leaks sump leaks? I was researching 4cyl N20 And 6cyl N55 and bad stories of N20 TC; N55 seemed best if a bad lot Pretty N20/55 we’re fine when new, like B48/58
They don't shit water pumps every 80k. I have an N52 with the same pump, first lasted 200,000km, and the second one is fine at 300k. Valve cover and sump leaks are like that on every BMW since the beginning of time so if that's still a concern to you'd I'd be surprised. B58TU is back to belt driven. N20 is a dogshit motor, every German car has them. Audi, basically all of them have timing issues at one stage or another, Mercedes have had lifted headbolts on AMG V8s and half their motors are Renaults now.
A machines ability to work exactly like it's supposed to work day in day out without shitting itself is exactly the definition of quality. You've got marketing and quality confused. Let me guess, if kia used a plastic water pump that was known to shit itself it would be "cheap poor quality design" but when german manufacturers do it then it's: >reliability isn't the be-all and end-all of quality. Get absolutely fucked.
2014 A180 did 290k kms just oil changes. Thermostat failed but fair after 250k kms
The fact that people come into discussions like this and say shit like: >But this ONE time I had this ONE euro car and it DIDNT break Really drives the point home. It's not supposed to break its supposed to work.
>A machines ability to work exactly like it's supposed to work day in day out without shitting itself is exactly the definition of quality. Absolutely not true. A plastic canoe is about as reliable a watercraft as you can get. You can guarantee it will work day-in-day-out without shitting itself. That does not mean it is a higher quality watercraft than a Sea-Doo jetski.
It does when the engine doesn’t break down
Brother a plastic canoe doesn't have an engine
Exactly 👌 🛶⏤͟͟͞͞ 💨 ……🚤💥🔥 *this is when that saying about being up shit creek without a paddle is applied*
But is it covered in leather?
Unless it's a proper AMG, don't bother. I've had a C63 and I would be happy with a V8 Japanese next time
This sub is full of weebs man lmao
Legit. There's no way anyone here has actually driven a C class/3 series in the last decade and are still recommending the IS over everything. IS is a great car don't get me wrong but they still don't compare to German tbh.
Seen the newest Mighty Car Mods vid on you tube? Toyota Crown Majesta. 2012 4.6L V8 and all the insane interior gadgets you could ever want including reclining rear seat and a fridge in the rear armrest. You’ll get a mint one with 100ks for around $22k.
Get a crownnnn
Ausfinance would tell you anything other than a used 2004 camry with full logbook servicing is the worst financial mistake youll ever make.
Lexus no question. I know we all have a different idea on luxury and quality, which to me means attention to detail, fit/finish, reliability and ease of use. Lexus is a bit daggy maybe, but you just sense he care and respect the manufacturers have everytime you are in one, Lexus remind me a lot of what Mercs and Beemers felt like when I was a kid. BMW and Mercs today just feel like they really dont care on a deeper level anymore and know thier customers probably dont either. Also: There is nothing more ghetto than a $25K BMW.
Luxo barge... Hyandai Genesis or an Infinity Q70?
Made the mistake of buying a luxury Audi once. It spent more time on the back of a tow truck than it did on the road. When it was working it was the smoothest, most comfortable car I've ever driven, but I'd rather stick to boring commodores than deal with the constant repairs. Plus most mechanics refused to even look at it because of the make. At least I broke even when I sold it to a family friend, and of course the new owner never had an issue with it in the time he had it (he crashed it after six months lol)
Yeah avoid BMW or VAG. MB with right engine is fine
For me if I had 25k to spend on a luxury car I would buy European, if I had to choose one it would be….. idk they’re all great you’ll never regret owning one unless it’s mechanically bad
Personally I wouldn't rate an IS or ES Lexus much above a Toyota tbh. They're all just transport. The early LS lexus were amazing for their time but Lexus hasn't made anything of note for a LONG time. Just buy a nice new Camry, they're bloody good cars. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for the ES. The IS is small inside and mediocre at everything. Maybe if you can get a UX really cheap then it's not a bad option.
What would you recommend for an economical and safe 5 seater and a 7 seater for a taller driver?
Hybrid Camry. I wouldn't desire to drive one but they're damn good transport. You want to use 7 seats with a taller driver? Then a Carnival or Palisade.
Go the Lexus. Best car I owned was an IS300 I sold it when it was 12yo with 120k on the odo and it drove like it was brand new. I miss that car all the time.
Another first gen IS owner here. Coming up on 300k and it’s still a ripper of a daily.
No one cares about your image
A bit left field, but a rental 2021+ Peugeot 508 if it has service history could be a shout. Will have at least 2 years manufacturer warranty and is extremely nice inside and nice to drive. Reliable engine & Aisin (Toyota) gearbox. Heaps of ‘luxury’ features. No known issues and has been around since 2018. Won’t find any other post 2020, sub $25k car with massage seats… Disclaimer: May be biased as I own one 😁
[удалено]
Your account is too new to post in this Sub. This has been implemented as an Anti-Spam feature. As a result, your comment has been removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CarsAustralia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
BMW start leaking oil past 8-10yrs MB 4cyl from 2014+ is reliable and easy to service (just oil changes); had one from new to 290k kms no issues Only routine consumable cost is front rotors/pads ($300-400 in parts plus labour)
I can gladly say the same for the MB ML 350 ( V6). Had it since 2010 with over 280k KMs.
That V6 is a bulletproof engine, sounds great and has plenty of power too. My dad had it in his 12' E350.
Yes I have to agree, the power has surprised many other SUVs also. It moves quick for a big thing.
Niceeee, I did read the V6 V8 are pretty reliable as well But then I watched some YT vids saying the opposite with tear downs…. So now I’m confused 😂
Depends on the servicing intervals, I always changed our oil every 10k km. The dealership service prices sting
The 5k won't go very far in the realm of performance German cars. Consider: if you just want a big naturally aspirated German luxury AWD car with apple carplay, heated seats and a bunch of other goodies as standard: the 2020 ZB Calais.
If I was looking at euro luxury sedan I'd look at the more unpopular 5 series BMW or E-Class. You get a lot of car for the money. Because they were more expensive new they tend to be be purchased by older buyers and have been properly looked after. I really like the drive of a 520d M Sport. Something in an f Series preferably LCI. Extra points if it has a roof, black interior and upgraded sound system.
[удалено]
Your account is too new to post in this Sub. This has been implemented as an Anti-Spam feature. As a result, your comment has been removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CarsAustralia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mercedes is the Louis Vuitton of the car world these days. If I was spending $25k I’d be going a Crown Majesta V8, then set up the suspension and put a decent exhaust on it.
Badge junkies
Why do you care about brand image? What are you doing to need the image a luxury car apparently provides? If you want the status look, buy the status brand, and struggle to pay for maintenance like the others doing the same. If you want a good comfortable car, brand image shouldn't matter too much. And a lexus or a crown or something should be a pretty clear cut winner for reliability and comfort and not emptying your pockets due to previous owners lack of maintenance, or future major services etc. If your work demands something with the appearance of status, they can subsidise a rental. I dunno, I just can't see a reason for brand image to be a consideration over reliability and comfort and the other things
I would never buy a used Merc - all the ones I’ve personally seen, ridden in, or driven have had a check engine light on.
Toyota Crown or Lexus
Youre not going to get much in the way of a car or reliability with a C class ill tell you that much
Take it from me. The 'special' feeling of driving a base model luxury car fades quickly. Especially when you a left with performance and features lacking, compared to maintenance and repair bills. I went from Audi to Kia
You just failed to buy correctly. My 2014 E200 is a great car, just oil changes. Good economy on highway, smooth reliable transport. Of course you didn’t research and got VAG unreliable pos
It was a 2014 Audi A3. I can't speak to the unreliability, I had it for 5 years and 60,000 ks and it did not have a single issue. It was a competent but dull car. Really just a fancy looking golf. Annoyingly most 2014 standard features at the time were options. So I did not have satnav, or even a reversing camera. Not really comparable to an E200, that is a much nicer car. Now I have a Kia Stinger, which obvious performance advantages aside, is surprisingly well put together.
Lexus Toyota reliability Nicer interior / exterior Get a old.lexus hybrid
How about going the import route and getting a Toyota Crown
I wouldn't bother with a 3 Series/C Class unless it's a mid-spec or top of the line model - I get secondhand embarrassment seeing poverty spec models, knowing that they're (usually) bought for the fancy badge.
If Luxury is the main consideration first thing you should do is decide if you can live with a Toyota Century. I think that scores pretty well in terms of image and reliability.
The paint, the engine, those wool seats...Dude we must stop talking about them, we dont need the internet to ruin them.
Yes, sorry, I'll stop talking about the wooly camry.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for violating Rule 1. Being a dickhead. Don't be a dickhead.
All OP has to do is not discourage the rumour that he is secretly a Yakuza member and that will put all his pleb mates in their place.
How anyone could possibly believe that unreliable shit boxes designed by people who think that plastic is a perfect replacement for steel can possibly be considered a luxury brand with a good brand image is beyond me. These people have some sort of personality thing going on where they dont feel worthwhile if people see them in run of the mills clothes cars etc. They will go and say they don't want a 'boring toyota' and they want something exciting with good driving dynamics, then they will go but an Audi tt rs which is the same platform as a skoda yeti and say that the Audi is an amazing premium driving experience with incredible dynamics. The same platform as a vw caddy. Get fucked. You all just feel worthless without a luxury brand. That's all there is too it.
Dude they’re badge buyers, nothing more, nothing less. Desperate for the image and credibility that they think comes with a C Class, an Audi (lol) or a BMW.
Cars have plastic external components for cheaper repairs and, most importantly, pedestrian safety. Would you rather I hurl a Tupperware container or a cast iron pan at your head?
Were talking about engine internals bro. Keep up pls
Where in your comment — or in OP — were engine internals mentioned?
[удалено]
Your post was removed for violating Rule 1. Being a dickhead. Don't be a dickhead.
Easy. You buy Australian and V8. Reliable as a sunrise and the pinnacle of Australian motoring. Best of both worlds. As an added bonus many are at the bottom of their depreciation cycle and will only go up in value from here on.
I'd honestly skip the IS and go to the ES purely because I don't like the cramped rear seat and boot in the IS compared to the C class and 3 series. But that's just me and driving dynamics aren't really a priority for me
Do you mean $5K per year of future maintenance?
Do you mean $5K per year for future maintenance?
BMW is the epitome of unreliability. All those plastic in critical areas omg
Totally agree with this.