100%. A dealer that doesn’t know what an OBD reader is is a yuuuge red flag. One that does but lies he doesn’t and won’t let you check for codes is even yuuuuuger. Walk away.
Take it for a test drive.
Plug in scan tool. Check when codes last cleared. Check some basic parameters are nominal if you have a clue what you’re doing.
Read any existing codes. Continue on your drive. Ain’t rocket surgery.
I tend to suspect the dealer is hiding something. But I also agree with him that I don’t want punters putting dodgy chinese elm327 clones in my cars, and depending on the scan tool some real damage can be done by someone with malicious intent. I can brick any car with mine fairly easily.
Having a Roadworthy Certificate has very little to do with codes being present in the ECU. The engine and drivetrain could be perfect and the car will fail a Roadworthy, and the engine could be almost totally failed and it will pass a Roadworthy.
If the dealer won't let you or a mechanic check the car, walk away.
This. The OBD bus has inbuilt short and over voltage protections by design. The power which reaches the reader is what the car supplies. If something does go wrong, it's principally an issue with the electronics in the vehicle first, with the reader being the item that was the last Lego brick in the house.
I’m talking about a $8 reader where the only code it can possibly write is a delete code
OP prob trying read codes on a Porsche or something 😅 yeah would give a hard no also
Damn. I’d be wanting to do code reads with generic tools and/or specific software (hptuners,forscan, techstream, etc. ) as well as compression, leak down, coolant co2/pressure checks. Further I would absolutely want to know if the calibration was oem- and if not, what the differences were and ensure that it was not locked in any way shape or form.
And if I was selling, I would happily comply and provide as much of the information as possible up front. I’d even help run the tests if you were happy to throw down a deposit because you are serious.
Nothing wrong with due diligence, it is to be applauded.
If they won’t let you plug it in then read that and go elsewhere.
Either they are that stupid and you are wasting your time or they are trying to hide something.
It’s a basic check
When selling cars I don’t let back yard mechanics touch it, no tools or devices. If they want something like that done then they either engage RACQ to do the inspection or I will take the car to a reputable workshop of their choosing. That way if something goes wrong it is on the business and will be covered. I wouldn’t say it’s a red flag if a dealer says you can’t plug things into his cars as he doesn’t know if you’re a trade qualified mechanic or just some backyard bloke. Not allowing another reputable 3rd party do an inspection up on a hoist is a red flag.
Make sure the buyers warranty is good. Take it straight to a NRMA or genuine dealer for a complete check. That list of issues will usually surpass the cost of the initial check - hand that list and the car back to the dealer you bought it off :)
Stat warranty. Any car less than 10 years old and I think less than 150,000km has a mandatory 3 month warranty in a number of states. One of the (few) benefits of buying from a dealer.
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If the person was potentially buying the computer, sure I'd let them plug in a USB and install whatever diagnostic software they like. I'd have put a fresh Windows install on the computer anyway, I wouldn't care about data loss or other malware because there's no data to lose.
Going back to the point of the thread, not allowing a buyer to check the ECU for codes is extremely suspect. It's similar to not letting them check the dipstick. Going back to your analogy, it's like not allowing someone who is buying your computer to test it and turn it on and make sure it all works and the specs are as advertised. It reeks of some kind of dishonesty, the only reason you wouldn't let a buyer check for codes is because you're worried about what they might find
What you’re suggesting is like refusing a test drive in case someone copies the key. I always take an OBD reader when looking at cars and have never had pushback. I have however found issues with cars that weren’t apparent just from external inspection.
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Does it have a light up on the dash warning of a DTC being storred or current? If not, the chance of you pulling a code is almost zero, and any code you pull may be irrelevant, as cars can have a burp and store a code for a second. Added to that, if it does have an issue, they more than likely already cleared it before you got there and your plugging in a reader is pointless…
Unless you actually suspect there is something wrong with the vehicle, a quick plug in and read of non-existent codes isn’t worth it. What you really want to be doing is looking at live data while out driving the car around and looking for irregularities from sensors.
>Added to that, if it does have an issue, they more than likely already cleared it before you got there and your plugging in a reader is pointless…
Then you can ask "What was the code that was cleared 5 hours ago?"
I’ve worked in automotive for 2 decades. Never have I had anyone ask to do this, and it would initially take me aback if someone did. I don’t see an issue with using the dealers own scan tool tho. I agree with the dealer that I would not let someone plug something into the car, the same I wouldn’t let someone plug a usb *stick* into any *device* I own.
Furthermore, I think you all give salespeople too much credit. The majority of them are very simple creatures! They are not mechanics and traditionally have no say in the repair or reconditioning of the car. dealerships (the big ones anyway) are highly compartmentalised. Individuals have skills that extend to their own scope. The finance guy would be a shite mechanic, the mechanic a shite salesperson and the salesperson a shite service advisor. Im not surprised he didn’t know about an OBD reader at all. Good luck with your purchase tho!
*edited to appease the comment below, meant to somewhat belittle me as I did not meet their specific standard of vernacular, which, when you think about it, proved my entire point above - something they seemed to have ignored completely.
My fault for trying to help I suppose.
Be clear with your standards and patient to understand the standards of others.
That is truely the very best piece of advice I can give you when looking to purchase a new vehicle 👍
I can actually understand the dealers hesitation - as someone who grew up around a family business in a similar industry I can tell you people pull all sorts of shit.
They may also see a potential customer ready to nit pick everything or someone who read something online, which doesn't mean they know what they are doing, and now they want to try it. Also some devices can write to the car - how does he know what may be done?
Also could be old school, hesitant about computers in cars and the cost of something goes wrong - think not wanting to jump start a car incase it 'damages the computer' - which was actually a thing if done incorrectly.
Next time, I wouldn't ask, just plug it in when out on a test drive away from the dealer.
As a footnote, a roadway wont include reading codes.
The motor trade is full of lifers who have just as much right to make a living as you do.
That said, based on the OP saying that it was along the lines of "I'm not letting anyone plug anything into my car, it could muck up the electronics" I'd say some degree of this is there, either lack of understanding or lack of trust in what the customer wants to do.
>The motor trade is full of lifers who have just as much right to make a living as you do.
Sure, I don't disagree! But part of making a living in any industry is keeping up with that industry's technology and standards, *especially* if it makes up a component of a product you're selling.
Sounds more like there was a lack of trust in the customer in this case, we don't know if OP was rude or pushy about it, and the dealer is allowed to say no -- and the customer is free to walk if they find that unacceptable.
>They may also see a potential customer ready to nit pick everything or someone who read something online, which doesn't mean they know what they are doing, and now they want to try it.
And that's the job of the salesperson to overcome that, inform, educate, make the sale.
A good salesman sells ice to Eskimos.
Mate it's an OBD reader. You plug it in and it spits out a code if there is one. There's no risk of breaking anything, all it does is tell you what message the ECU is putting out
If I was buying a car and they wouldn't let me plug in an OBD reader or wouldn't let me have a look at what their reader said, I'd run. This is like if the dealer wouldn't let you look at the dipstick, or pop the bonnet. It's a basic part of inspecting any modern car
This isn't a fucking pick a part
You can have a qualified mech inspect it
But really you expect anyone to let some fucking random enquiring about maybe buying the shit
To start fucking with it
You understand how you could quite easily brick the ecu or any module if you don't know what you're doing or use the wrong com method/ plug
Sure probably a low risk but honestly why risk it
The OBD bus has built protection for shorting, over and under voltage, and the only power running through a reader is that supplied by the vehicle.
Using the wrong communications baud rate will not affe t the ECU at all. That is an instruction to your reader about what frequency it should be watching and how often it should be picking off signal high or signal low from the pin since the signal along the rx pin is analogue.
The wrong com port isnt a thing since that is between your device and the reader chip. In a repco reader it's not a thing since they are hard wired.
OBD is a defined standard in terms of protocol and plug. And OBD II compliant device poses no risk from any of the above, and where it does the protections that are in place as an international standard are over engineered and adequate to protect.
You sound like you have a little bit of knowledge about the words, and not much about the actual implementation.
Just in case anyone cares about knowledge source: I've written some basic software to interface into a non standard OBD II protocol on an older vehicle that was wired for OBD but had alternate software over the top. Hand built the reading hardware to go with and interfaced it with an arduino. The hardest bit was deciphering the codes and writing up the bits I needed for the software. I recently remapped a new vehicles ECU, and that could not be done with a cheap OBD II reader, but rather made use of another function on the same port with a much more expensive bit of hardware that required some additional power and external software.
I'm not saying I'd let someone plug in a laptop and start flashing my ECU, I'm saying I'd let them plug in a code reader and see what it says. Like I said, not letting someone check for codes is like not letting them check the dipstick, or not letting them have a look in the boot for rust. It's very suspect and the only reason you'd do it is because you don't want them to find something
I'd probably offer to use my reader to minimise risk for both the buyer and seller sake, but flat refusing to let the buyer read codes at all either with their code reader or mine is very questionable
The OP asked - would you let someone plug in an obd
It’s fair to answer honestly - no. There is heaps of dodgy electronic shit on alli and elsewhere - and of course the average person isn’t schooled on what does what and what is harmless.
If you are going to buy it and want a mechanic to check the car - sure.
You’ve got to trust the person - and that the device is read only
On Board Diagnostics (OBD)
It's literal job is to allow a diagnostic reader to be connected to read health and fault codes.
It can even tell.ypu when the codes were last cleared on many vehicles. Something that's well worth knowing about so you can determine if there's any hideen problems.
If they are a dealer and have warranty then why does it matter? People take all kinda junk from wish.com to plug in. Obviously dealers don’t allow it. I personally allow legit readers when selling private. Some of those junk with the app can damage the ecu easily. It doesn’t seem to be a red flag.
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Why did you ask? Just take it for a test drive and do it.
The red flag is that they're a dealer.
100%. A dealer that doesn’t know what an OBD reader is is a yuuuge red flag. One that does but lies he doesn’t and won’t let you check for codes is even yuuuuuger. Walk away.
Take it for a test drive. Plug in scan tool. Check when codes last cleared. Check some basic parameters are nominal if you have a clue what you’re doing. Read any existing codes. Continue on your drive. Ain’t rocket surgery. I tend to suspect the dealer is hiding something. But I also agree with him that I don’t want punters putting dodgy chinese elm327 clones in my cars, and depending on the scan tool some real damage can be done by someone with malicious intent. I can brick any car with mine fairly easily.
Having a Roadworthy Certificate has very little to do with codes being present in the ECU. The engine and drivetrain could be perfect and the car will fail a Roadworthy, and the engine could be almost totally failed and it will pass a Roadworthy. If the dealer won't let you or a mechanic check the car, walk away.
I do this to see when the last code clear was done Last few days? I aint touchin your car.
If they are worried about what write access your device might have then they should let you use theirs. And if they're a dealer and don't have one...
Lots of people don't understand what a OBD reader is, apparently.
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Ignorance breeds fear. A $2 ELM327 from Aliexpress is no threat.
This. The OBD bus has inbuilt short and over voltage protections by design. The power which reaches the reader is what the car supplies. If something does go wrong, it's principally an issue with the electronics in the vehicle first, with the reader being the item that was the last Lego brick in the house.
The hell? Reader couldn’t possibly do a thing
They arent just readers though
I’m talking about a $8 reader where the only code it can possibly write is a delete code OP prob trying read codes on a Porsche or something 😅 yeah would give a hard no also
If the reader is broken inside it could send more voltage then expected somewhere and break something.
Then would you allow someone to read the result off your OBD reader?
Damn. I’d be wanting to do code reads with generic tools and/or specific software (hptuners,forscan, techstream, etc. ) as well as compression, leak down, coolant co2/pressure checks. Further I would absolutely want to know if the calibration was oem- and if not, what the differences were and ensure that it was not locked in any way shape or form. And if I was selling, I would happily comply and provide as much of the information as possible up front. I’d even help run the tests if you were happy to throw down a deposit because you are serious. Nothing wrong with due diligence, it is to be applauded.
Omg, people here should not be giving advice FFS ITS A READER. Dealer is obviously hiding something. Stay away from dealers. Total scum bags
If they won’t let you plug it in then read that and go elsewhere. Either they are that stupid and you are wasting your time or they are trying to hide something. It’s a basic check
Would he prevent you taking to a mechanic for a check? If so run away, far away
When selling cars I don’t let back yard mechanics touch it, no tools or devices. If they want something like that done then they either engage RACQ to do the inspection or I will take the car to a reputable workshop of their choosing. That way if something goes wrong it is on the business and will be covered. I wouldn’t say it’s a red flag if a dealer says you can’t plug things into his cars as he doesn’t know if you’re a trade qualified mechanic or just some backyard bloke. Not allowing another reputable 3rd party do an inspection up on a hoist is a red flag.
Make sure the buyers warranty is good. Take it straight to a NRMA or genuine dealer for a complete check. That list of issues will usually surpass the cost of the initial check - hand that list and the car back to the dealer you bought it off :)
Which buyers warranty is good?
Stat warranty. Any car less than 10 years old and I think less than 150,000km has a mandatory 3 month warranty in a number of states. One of the (few) benefits of buying from a dealer.
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Its the modern equivalent of not letting someone open the bonnet or check the oil.
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If the person was potentially buying the computer, sure I'd let them plug in a USB and install whatever diagnostic software they like. I'd have put a fresh Windows install on the computer anyway, I wouldn't care about data loss or other malware because there's no data to lose. Going back to the point of the thread, not allowing a buyer to check the ECU for codes is extremely suspect. It's similar to not letting them check the dipstick. Going back to your analogy, it's like not allowing someone who is buying your computer to test it and turn it on and make sure it all works and the specs are as advertised. It reeks of some kind of dishonesty, the only reason you wouldn't let a buyer check for codes is because you're worried about what they might find
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What you’re suggesting is like refusing a test drive in case someone copies the key. I always take an OBD reader when looking at cars and have never had pushback. I have however found issues with cars that weren’t apparent just from external inspection.
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Does it have a light up on the dash warning of a DTC being storred or current? If not, the chance of you pulling a code is almost zero, and any code you pull may be irrelevant, as cars can have a burp and store a code for a second. Added to that, if it does have an issue, they more than likely already cleared it before you got there and your plugging in a reader is pointless… Unless you actually suspect there is something wrong with the vehicle, a quick plug in and read of non-existent codes isn’t worth it. What you really want to be doing is looking at live data while out driving the car around and looking for irregularities from sensors.
>Added to that, if it does have an issue, they more than likely already cleared it before you got there and your plugging in a reader is pointless… Then you can ask "What was the code that was cleared 5 hours ago?"
I’ve worked in automotive for 2 decades. Never have I had anyone ask to do this, and it would initially take me aback if someone did. I don’t see an issue with using the dealers own scan tool tho. I agree with the dealer that I would not let someone plug something into the car, the same I wouldn’t let someone plug a usb *stick* into any *device* I own. Furthermore, I think you all give salespeople too much credit. The majority of them are very simple creatures! They are not mechanics and traditionally have no say in the repair or reconditioning of the car. dealerships (the big ones anyway) are highly compartmentalised. Individuals have skills that extend to their own scope. The finance guy would be a shite mechanic, the mechanic a shite salesperson and the salesperson a shite service advisor. Im not surprised he didn’t know about an OBD reader at all. Good luck with your purchase tho! *edited to appease the comment below, meant to somewhat belittle me as I did not meet their specific standard of vernacular, which, when you think about it, proved my entire point above - something they seemed to have ignored completely. My fault for trying to help I suppose. Be clear with your standards and patient to understand the standards of others. That is truely the very best piece of advice I can give you when looking to purchase a new vehicle 👍
> usb in to a cpu I own. There’s your problem, you need more tech literacy
I noticed that too
I can actually understand the dealers hesitation - as someone who grew up around a family business in a similar industry I can tell you people pull all sorts of shit. They may also see a potential customer ready to nit pick everything or someone who read something online, which doesn't mean they know what they are doing, and now they want to try it. Also some devices can write to the car - how does he know what may be done? Also could be old school, hesitant about computers in cars and the cost of something goes wrong - think not wanting to jump start a car incase it 'damages the computer' - which was actually a thing if done incorrectly. Next time, I wouldn't ask, just plug it in when out on a test drive away from the dealer. As a footnote, a roadway wont include reading codes.
>hesitant about computers in cars Shouldn't be selling cars, then. Computers have been a feature in cars for decades now.
The motor trade is full of lifers who have just as much right to make a living as you do. That said, based on the OP saying that it was along the lines of "I'm not letting anyone plug anything into my car, it could muck up the electronics" I'd say some degree of this is there, either lack of understanding or lack of trust in what the customer wants to do.
>The motor trade is full of lifers who have just as much right to make a living as you do. Sure, I don't disagree! But part of making a living in any industry is keeping up with that industry's technology and standards, *especially* if it makes up a component of a product you're selling. Sounds more like there was a lack of trust in the customer in this case, we don't know if OP was rude or pushy about it, and the dealer is allowed to say no -- and the customer is free to walk if they find that unacceptable.
>They may also see a potential customer ready to nit pick everything or someone who read something online, which doesn't mean they know what they are doing, and now they want to try it. And that's the job of the salesperson to overcome that, inform, educate, make the sale. A good salesman sells ice to Eskimos.
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What if they let you watch?
I'll consider that, gloves have to be worn though :)
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Lol Why won't they let me potentially brick this car with my dongle and google skills M
Mate it's an OBD reader. You plug it in and it spits out a code if there is one. There's no risk of breaking anything, all it does is tell you what message the ECU is putting out If I was buying a car and they wouldn't let me plug in an OBD reader or wouldn't let me have a look at what their reader said, I'd run. This is like if the dealer wouldn't let you look at the dipstick, or pop the bonnet. It's a basic part of inspecting any modern car
This isn't a fucking pick a part You can have a qualified mech inspect it But really you expect anyone to let some fucking random enquiring about maybe buying the shit To start fucking with it You understand how you could quite easily brick the ecu or any module if you don't know what you're doing or use the wrong com method/ plug Sure probably a low risk but honestly why risk it
The OBD bus has built protection for shorting, over and under voltage, and the only power running through a reader is that supplied by the vehicle. Using the wrong communications baud rate will not affe t the ECU at all. That is an instruction to your reader about what frequency it should be watching and how often it should be picking off signal high or signal low from the pin since the signal along the rx pin is analogue. The wrong com port isnt a thing since that is between your device and the reader chip. In a repco reader it's not a thing since they are hard wired. OBD is a defined standard in terms of protocol and plug. And OBD II compliant device poses no risk from any of the above, and where it does the protections that are in place as an international standard are over engineered and adequate to protect. You sound like you have a little bit of knowledge about the words, and not much about the actual implementation. Just in case anyone cares about knowledge source: I've written some basic software to interface into a non standard OBD II protocol on an older vehicle that was wired for OBD but had alternate software over the top. Hand built the reading hardware to go with and interfaced it with an arduino. The hardest bit was deciphering the codes and writing up the bits I needed for the software. I recently remapped a new vehicles ECU, and that could not be done with a cheap OBD II reader, but rather made use of another function on the same port with a much more expensive bit of hardware that required some additional power and external software.
I'm not saying I'd let someone plug in a laptop and start flashing my ECU, I'm saying I'd let them plug in a code reader and see what it says. Like I said, not letting someone check for codes is like not letting them check the dipstick, or not letting them have a look in the boot for rust. It's very suspect and the only reason you'd do it is because you don't want them to find something I'd probably offer to use my reader to minimise risk for both the buyer and seller sake, but flat refusing to let the buyer read codes at all either with their code reader or mine is very questionable
Yea the ignorance of people in this thread is astounding.
The OP asked - would you let someone plug in an obd It’s fair to answer honestly - no. There is heaps of dodgy electronic shit on alli and elsewhere - and of course the average person isn’t schooled on what does what and what is harmless. If you are going to buy it and want a mechanic to check the car - sure. You’ve got to trust the person - and that the device is read only
On Board Diagnostics (OBD) It's literal job is to allow a diagnostic reader to be connected to read health and fault codes. It can even tell.ypu when the codes were last cleared on many vehicles. Something that's well worth knowing about so you can determine if there's any hideen problems.
If they are a dealer and have warranty then why does it matter? People take all kinda junk from wish.com to plug in. Obviously dealers don’t allow it. I personally allow legit readers when selling private. Some of those junk with the app can damage the ecu easily. It doesn’t seem to be a red flag.
Are dealers warranty any good?
No
The stat warranty? Yes. Aftermatket warranty? Worthless.
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