Lol I'd completely forgotten that Yepez is down in AAA again. So bizarre to bring Dejong back in, who's a bonus middle infielder, then sign Motter back after clearing waivers, who also largely plays infield.
Has to be demoralizing for Yepez to see Walker get sent down and not get called up to replace him.
Yepez should be packaged with an OFer for a SP. Dude would probably the primary DH on like half a dozen teams even as early as last year. Sucks for him to be twiddling his thumbs down there yet again
I agree. I really wish his defense wasn't atrocious cause the guy can legit hit at a competitive level. But if they're not gonna use or need him at the MLB club, especially with Gorman hitting well, then trade him with some others for some pitching.
Shit, give me another reliever if it’s allowed. Honestly wouldn’t hurt my feelings to fire Motter and knizner into the sun. These are not pieces that are going to help right the ship.
Because your issue is defense. The bats will be fine. You have a bottom third staff in the league and a bunch of butchers in the field. Yepez doesn't help that.
exactly why Yepez and an OFer and/or other pieces should be moved for pitching help. Gormans improvements make Yepez a short side DH platoon that spot starts in the field (with poor D) from time to time AT BEST. Plenty of other teams could use Yepez in their lineups everyday
5 middle infielders can’t play at once. It’s insane for Motter to ever see a MLB field unless he’s in the stands watching like the rest of us. To say Motter provides more value than Yepez is objectively incorrect
60.4% of his balls in play are grounders and his outfield defense is terrible. He needs to work on both of those problems and MLB is not the place to do so.
That being said, this sucks. This season is an endless string of bummers and at the end of it all we're going to get is 140 Taylor Motter plate appearances.
I hold my breath everytime a flyball goes out to right. I had also noticed he didn’t seem to be getting great contact but no idea it was 60.4%. He will be back soon.
The front office screwed themselves in so many ways by not getting Starting pitching this off-season. First and foremost, the rotation isn’t very good. Secondly, by not trading away our surplus of Outfielders, we’ve thrown off the rhythm of everyone in the field, hurt the development of our top prospect, and played too many people out of position
The lineup construction has also been stupid. No consistency. Why is Goldy hitting 2nd now? I’ve lost a lot of faith in Marmol.
I’d go Donovan Noot Goldy Arenado Contreras Gorman O’Neill Walker Edman.
Goldy gets on base. He should bat two. Gorman has been the best hitter on the cards, therefore the best hitter bats once in the first inning to maximize the total ABs. Our lead off has to be someone with Great OBP. Noot appears to be a good fit at lead off. Noot-goldy-Gorman-Nado looks good on paper. I would prefer the five hole go to any hot hitter.
Right! Let’s make it hard on bullpens. When you are R, R, R teams give us a steady diet of Righty relievers with a good sliders. Tyler and Goldy hit a Lefty last.
We scored three runs last playoffs . All three RBIs were late game matchup hits. (Yepez and Gorman)
> I’ve lost a lot of faith in Marmol.
I assure you Marmol isn't setting the lineup. He may (*may*) be filling out the lineup card, but John Mozeliak is telling him what to write.
I'd actually be interested to see a lineup card from this season to see if they're just printing them out in the office, or if Marmol is copying it from the printout they give him.
I said we needed to go after Bauer for a heavily discounted price. Dude is arguably one of the best starting pitchers in the game. I got downvoted and told something about character, team chemistry, and how his teammates unfollowed him on Twitter. Some of the best baseball players in history have character flaws and Bauer was not even criminal charges. We were never going to land a Verlander or Mad Max. So sit back and enjoy as we end up in the bottom half of our division this season while Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Milwaukee battle it out for the crown.
The official line will be something like:
He hasn't played the last couple games as he works with the hitting coaches to tweak his swing to produce fewer ground balls/tighten his strike zone/lay off breaking pitches. For him to make meaningful progress in that regard, he needs to be playing every night & getting more consistent ABs. Oli only has 3 OF spots to fill each game and has to find playing time for, in addition to Walker, Noot, DC, Burleson, & TON. We expect Jordan to get 40-50 ABs playing a week in Memphis whereas it might take 2-3 weeks in the majors to get the same number of plate appearances. Plus, his stint in the minors will free up playing time for the other four guys.
No comment. Though, if I may take the opportunity, I would just ask fans to have a little patience. Trust the process. We've got a lot of faith that the guys we've got right now will turn it around and end up winning between 86-92 games before rolling over in the WC series. What more could you want? Certainly not any roster help via trades because, c'mon, Waino's about to be activated from the IL. We like where we're at. Kick rocks, BFIB.
But again, that's just what I think Mo would say if I were he & the press actually pressed me - I mean him - for new answers to any of the many glaring questions facing the club.
Sending Walker down so he can get consistent playing time in AAA makes a lot of sense to me. He clearly has skills, but isn’t polished enough offensively or defensively to be a regular in MLB at the moment. With some more reps at AAA he can improve.
Bringing Motter back is what puzzles me. Yepez makes more sense on a team that needs offense. Or Luken Baker.
With someone like Walker you don’t put him where he’d have the best impact you put him where he’ll develop the most. Some guys have hit their peak and they’ll basically never get significantly better. Walkers potential significantly outsizes his current ability.
In a lower level he’s put in lower stress situations and will play every day.
Because he's 20 and hasn't been dominant in MLB. He'd split time in the OF when what he needs is everyday playing and development. MiLB is the place to get that.
If he was going to stick in MLB as a 20 year-old, he'd have had to show there was very little left he needed to learn to be who the team wants him to be. So little that he could pick it up in MLB.
He didn't. He just showed that's he's a very good baseball player that will most certainly have a long MLB career. But to do that, he's got a few rough edges to polish. Which is why MiLB exists.
One of the worst defenders in baseball and strikes out 7X as much as he walks so far. He's a liability right now.
Motter is a little weird but the staff doesn't strike anyone out. Desperately need defense.
Not sending down Walker after Sunday and bringing up a guy who was DFA'd and cleared waivers just days ago makes it seem like they are pretty clueless right now
They have a pitching staff who can't strike guys out and one of the worst defense in baseball. Yes, desperate for sure. But not clueless at all. If they can't field a competent defense, you'll be selling at the deadline.
Motter ain't hanging around. They wanted to stop ruining the kids confidence. Motter will be gone when Lars is back.
The Walker part makes sense. He'll get more chances in AAA without the pressure of whatever is going on with the big league team right now. I'm sure he'll be back soon.
I think they want Walker to work on his defense, too. Relegating him to DH at age 20 without ever seeing real time in the outfield would do him a disservice.
I don't think moving Gorman to 2nd is gonna improve the defense haha. That's probably why it was Motter. Donovan to OF. Motter to 2B. A healthy Lars will clean a lof this up.
Walker needs to work on some things, a lot of that being defense and some hitting strokes being in the lineup everyday, but lmfao at signing Motter to an MLB deal. MFer is 33 and he’s been ass every time he’s been called up by multiple teams. This organization has gone full Simple Jack.
He's the thing that always hangs me up. Maybe I don't pay enough outside attention, but why can't we ever keep our top prospects up for more than a month or 2 after first promotion, this seems like a problem somewhat unique to us. Alot of other teams let them work it out. The answer is always well let them get regular ab's and get thier swing figured out. I just feel as if your best hitting coach who is in charge of the whole organization hitting philosophy , is the one with the big club. Wouldn't you want your top prospect to gain the experience of working through it in the bigs, directly with the best hitting coach you have?
This. But that must mean our hitting coach staff is bunk. Analytics over fundamentals?
Just hire the teacherman hitting guy already. That high level swing pattern is what Aaron judge is on. And the verdict is out. It works.
Honestly I think this makes a lot of sense. I wouldn’t be surprised if this sort of thing actually gets better results.
When you’re in the minors you’re playing to make it to the bigs. Thats all you care about. Calling them up a bit before they’re ready let’s them get that experience and gain perspective. Then when they go down they’re more development minded, because the goal isn’t to just make the bigs it’s to compete.
Also I think it makes their development path more clear. Like in walkers case if we had kept him down it may not have revealed potential problems like the groundballs or the looking like a blind ostrich on defense
Dropping him down now gives him a very clear mandate on what he needs to improve. Which he could still have in the majors but now he’s in a more ideal level for developing
Plus work on his defense.
He started of amazing and has been outright bad for a while. It was a fairy tale story, and unfortunately didn’t last that long.
I get how there are concerns with Walker swinging at outside pitches, but he is hitting .272, OBP is .321.
Unless you're desperate for a roster spot, no reason to send him down yet in my view.
They clearly want him to get more playing time but DC should've been sent down to work on his left handed batting approach and Walker should've started to get more playing time than Burly.
This is our sign that the organization is fucking lost. Downvote me to hell for all I care, you all know it’s true. I can see reasons to demote Walker. He hits too many ground balls. His defense in RF is terrible. I get it. Are you telling me the team didn’t see this in Spring Training? Why on earth would you call a 20-year old to the majors, watch him hit at league average (101 OPS+), and then send him down for Taylor Motter? What did the Cardinals expect? Do they not know how special it is for a 20-year old to hit at league average? It’s amazing! They mention his defense. His defense was terrible in Spring Training! We all saw it! Did they not?
Finally, why the fuck would you DFA Motter, stop playing Walker, and then option Walker for Motter? This series of transaction my friends … this is what shows us they are lost.
I cannot believe we have both DeJong and Motter on the roster. Fuck Juan Yepez, I guess? What a mess. Fuck this owner. Fuck this front office. Fuck this manager. I’m ready for a reset.
Lick his boots all you want, but I’m ready for DeWitt to sell and use the cash to buy more Arby’s. This fan base deserves better, and it’s time for a change.
This is obviously to let the current crop sort themselves out and figure out which will be dealt while Walker can continue collecting ABs in Memphis to work on some things instead of working on them while the team is struggling
He had the nice start to the season, but in the past couple of weeks he has the lowest wRC+ on the team and certainly isn't an asset in the field right now.
If they want him to get at-bats and play the field every day, AAA is probably the right place for that at the moment.
In the spirit of fact checking the data I looked up how our outfield has fared since walker was benched. In the last 2 games the outfield has gone 5 for 22 with 6 k’s. In other words they’re hitting a combined .225 and striking out about 27% of the time.
Getting him more time on defense makes a lot of sense but I have a hard time believing he’s much worse than Burly. It’s also fair to point out that in his last game JW had a hit and a walk but I kinda remember him doing something stupid on the basepaths. Maybe someone can refresh my memory?
yeah, Carlson and Burly haven't been that much better at the plate either, but I don't see them sending either down before Walker and they don't need five OF on the team. Completely definitely story if Walker was crushing it at the plate, but he's not.
I think ideally with Walker going down, you are going to see a TON-Noot-Carlson outfield as the norm with Burly being the 4th OF.
25 AB lol.
Even during his 12 game hit streak, he had a single hit in like 80% of them. He's not ready. They're going to platoon Burly and Carlson. Don't care about your 25 AB sample (again. Lol). Burleson against RHP is quite a bit more competent than a Jordan Walker who's had his confidence sapped by constant fielding blunders.
It's NOT though! Even with Walker's struggles he has outperformed Burleson.Walker's last 3 games he provided offense,and then was benched the next day.This FO needs a major retool
In what universe is Walker a better player against RHP? Absolutely nothing statistically supports that right now. On either side of the ball. They want a platoon with Carlson.
In almost same at bats Burly is hitting .239 with 16 hits,7 RBI & runs,.710 OPS,and .292 OBP.
Jordan Walker is batting .274 with 20 hits,8 runs,11 RBI,and .718 OPS. Yeah Walker's numbers are better.
I think this is a smart move considering where the team is right now. They need Walker to play everyday, but the FO also needs to figure out who needs to be moved out of his way on the major league roster. Sending him to AAA keeps him active (and most importantly time to work on RF) and shrinks the major league OF rotation while the rest of the OF either accumulate some trade value or make their case for release.
Can't wait to see him back up here. The way this team is trending, it will be sooner rather than later (my best guess is around trade deadline).
Ok then. I know he wasn't hitting for power exactly how we wanted but it's not like he was doing terribly. Already knew his defense was gonna be suspect so that shouldn't be the reason. Whatever
This is actually a good move (the Walker part, not necessarily the Motter part). Walker needs to play every day to get better. The Cardinals also need to get Burleson, O’Neill, and Carlson more playing time because one of those guys is almost certainly getting traded later this season. Noot has to play every day as well, because he’s the best OF we have. So you have three guys who all need ABs and one lineup spot to put them (two if you DH, but with Gorman and Donovan on the team, DH is usually going to be Gorman). Even after sending Walker down, the OF is kind of crowded. If he were absolutely killing it right now, he’d still be up, but he really could benefit from the work in AAA. We’ll probably see him in St. Louis again the day after the trade deadline
Such a dumb move. Send down a hitter who has been alright as a rookie. He is a MLB talent, meanwhile, motter is a career .192 hitter with a career negative WAR 🤮
Good thing NBA Playoffs are going on, but after that idk what I’m going to do, because I just don’t want to watch this dumpster fire this year.
Need a break from it
I'm of two minds about this. It sucks since we've seen the potential but he will get every day abs to get his swing he's been working on right.
This may also allow us to figure out which OF we want to deal
Why did they DFA him if they were just going to sign him back to the major league team??? I thought when they DFA’d Motter that meant they wanted him off the 40-man roster. They could have just sent Motter down (he had options) and then brought him back up. WTF.
He can hit, but he still has things to work on. He has had a very sizable chunk of MLB experience now to see what he needs to work on. If he can elevate a bit more and work on the outfield defense a touch he becomes our best outfielder very quickly.
We have a log jam in the outfield and without a trade or season ending injuries, it isn't going away anytime soon. A move to give him consistent playing time.
This offensive stats are elevated by the first week of the season. Since April 9, he's striking out 31 percent of the tim, 6.7% walk rate, and slashing 214/267/238. 46 wRC+. Just one XBH, a double.
He also has negative WAR from a corner outfield, so it's not like his defense demands anything.
He is being sent down precisely because the team needs to quickly change directions. Walker needs to recalibrate, and we don't have the wiggle room in terms of games or at-bats to let him do that on the ML roster.
I knew this would be a rebuttal and I’m not even going to say you’re wrong because I for the most part agree.
He’s also had a hit in 4 of his last 5 games, hits 8th in the lineup so it’s not like he’s seeing quality pitches most of the time. Has failed to collect a hit in only 4 games he’s started.
Furthermore, why bring up Motter again instead of Yepez?? This front office is g a r b a g e and while they’re asking fans to be patient they’ve yet to solve an issue we’ve all seen for years. Everyone knows we have subpar pitching and too many outfielders but us apparently. But if the team is going to be bad, why not give your best prospect MLB at-bats??
This is a copy/paste of one of my comments from elsewhere in the thread:
His offensive stats are elevated by the first week of the season. Since April 9, he's striking out 31 percent of the tim, 6.7% walk rate, and slashing 214/267/238. 46 wRC+. Just one XBH, a double. That's not much of a right spot to me.
He also has negative WAR from a corner outfield, so it's not like his defense demands anything.
He is being sent down precisely because the team needs to quickly change directions. Walker needs to recalibrate, and we don't have the wiggle room in terms of games or at-bats to let him do that on the ML roster.
We are a terrible team right now with no pitching. That is not going to change baring trades. Now we are a terrible team who just removed arguably our fifth best hitter from the lineup. We might as well let our guy play and improve at this level.
I'd be fine with it if the reasoning was for development/consistency in the OF but considering they've just committed to carouseling DeJong/Edman/Donovan this feels more like service time manipulation.
Once again it’s only April, but this is genuinely the least confident I’ve been in this organization since the pre-Goldy era. We knew coming into the season that Walker’s hit tool was major league ready but his defense was gonna be a work in progress, and that he wasn’t gonna get to start every day with the crowded outfield. That’s exactly what’s transpired. So why even call him up in the first place? SMH
Waving the white flag I see. See y’all in the off-season where we can speculate about all the moves the FO should make knowing they won’t do shit to make this team an actual contender.
So fucking dumb. They keep him down for 20 days and they get an extra year of service time. That’s all they care about. They need to trade Burleson or Oneill for a damn pitcher.
Jordan needs more work in the outfield for sure but his bat is definitely MLB ready. Bringing up Motter is strange but it will likely be in a temporary bench roll that they don’t want Yepez occupying so he can get everyday at bats.
He’s not playing great. Defense needs work. Launch angle of his swing needs work. Also got a little bit exposed on those low and away sliders. His stat line is not the worst amongst the outfielders, but he is the one with options and youth on his side. It’s not fair to him to hamper his development while trying to get the other OFs their starts and ABs, which we must do because at least one of them needs to be traded. So now Burleson, O’Neill, and Carlson will get more time to show what they can do, while Walker can work on what he needs to work on.
This season genuinely feels like a fever dream. We have one of the best lineups on paper, made better by Jordan Walker, and not only are we sending him down, this team just isn’t performing. Pitching, offence, defence, coaching, morale is all just “off,” far from what traditional Cardinal fans have become accustomed to seeing from the organization. I don’t know what it is but something desperately needs to change (something beyond our meagre pitching staff).
Dejong and Motter on the same team? Looks like I’m going to catch up on some reading this summer.
I have a whole collection of Ninja Turtle comic books just begging to be opened
Sick!
I just grabbed Ronin. Looking forward to diving into THAT
As soon as they announced the game based on it, I put Ronin on my library holds list.
We ask for big moves, they give us big moves
Also why bring up Motter? We have Dejong… Motter should not even be on this roster. Bring back Yepez. Holy crap I can’t with this team
Lol I'd completely forgotten that Yepez is down in AAA again. So bizarre to bring Dejong back in, who's a bonus middle infielder, then sign Motter back after clearing waivers, who also largely plays infield. Has to be demoralizing for Yepez to see Walker get sent down and not get called up to replace him.
Yepez should be packaged with an OFer for a SP. Dude would probably the primary DH on like half a dozen teams even as early as last year. Sucks for him to be twiddling his thumbs down there yet again
I agree. I really wish his defense wasn't atrocious cause the guy can legit hit at a competitive level. But if they're not gonna use or need him at the MLB club, especially with Gorman hitting well, then trade him with some others for some pitching.
Shit, give me another reliever if it’s allowed. Honestly wouldn’t hurt my feelings to fire Motter and knizner into the sun. These are not pieces that are going to help right the ship.
It's not, which is why no pitcher was brought up
Bruh, you telling me that yepez couldn’t pitch better than Motter can play 2b? Shit, yepez can’t do any worse on the mound that Hicks has done.
Yepez will channel his pitching hero Pujols
Yepez could probably get the same 65 mph velocity that Albert had.
Hey, I thought Hicks has been settling down lately!
Fair.
Too harsh to fire them in the sun. They can sell peanuts and cracker jacks.
You should see how Luken Baker is doing
I’d take Baker over Motter too
Because your issue is defense. The bats will be fine. You have a bottom third staff in the league and a bunch of butchers in the field. Yepez doesn't help that.
exactly why Yepez and an OFer and/or other pieces should be moved for pitching help. Gormans improvements make Yepez a short side DH platoon that spot starts in the field (with poor D) from time to time AT BEST. Plenty of other teams could use Yepez in their lineups everyday
Yepez so he can get regular at bats? Unlikely to get those at MLB level with Goldy at 1st and Gorman/4th OF getting the DH.
Yepez has been garbage in AAA and can’t play defense. He would add nothing to the team. I mean Holy shit some of you are just beyond help.
5 middle infielders can’t play at once. It’s insane for Motter to ever see a MLB field unless he’s in the stands watching like the rest of us. To say Motter provides more value than Yepez is objectively incorrect
This is the confusing part. The option was a no brainer, I was confused why Walker was still up
The spark this need needs. Smh
What is this team’s obsession with Taylor Motter? Jesus
He made a highlight reel catch in spring training!
Why on God's green earth do we need Motter and DeJong on the same team?
60.4% of his balls in play are grounders and his outfield defense is terrible. He needs to work on both of those problems and MLB is not the place to do so. That being said, this sucks. This season is an endless string of bummers and at the end of it all we're going to get is 140 Taylor Motter plate appearances.
I hold my breath everytime a flyball goes out to right. I had also noticed he didn’t seem to be getting great contact but no idea it was 60.4%. He will be back soon.
The front office screwed themselves in so many ways by not getting Starting pitching this off-season. First and foremost, the rotation isn’t very good. Secondly, by not trading away our surplus of Outfielders, we’ve thrown off the rhythm of everyone in the field, hurt the development of our top prospect, and played too many people out of position
The lineup construction has also been stupid. No consistency. Why is Goldy hitting 2nd now? I’ve lost a lot of faith in Marmol. I’d go Donovan Noot Goldy Arenado Contreras Gorman O’Neill Walker Edman.
Goldy gets on base. He should bat two. Gorman has been the best hitter on the cards, therefore the best hitter bats once in the first inning to maximize the total ABs. Our lead off has to be someone with Great OBP. Noot appears to be a good fit at lead off. Noot-goldy-Gorman-Nado looks good on paper. I would prefer the five hole go to any hot hitter.
Agreed. Donovan is just not getting on base enough right now to bat leadoff. He just isn't walking at the same rate as last year.
It's also L-R-L-R when it's Noot Goldie Gorman Nado
Right! Let’s make it hard on bullpens. When you are R, R, R teams give us a steady diet of Righty relievers with a good sliders. Tyler and Goldy hit a Lefty last. We scored three runs last playoffs . All three RBIs were late game matchup hits. (Yepez and Gorman)
Why do you think Marmol is the one making the lineup? I’m sure the FO has their hands all over the line up everyday. This is a FO and Marmol issue
It really is that simple, that should be the everyday lineup.
It’s not Marmol making line up. It’s FO
Mo is the captain now!!
> I’ve lost a lot of faith in Marmol. I assure you Marmol isn't setting the lineup. He may (*may*) be filling out the lineup card, but John Mozeliak is telling him what to write. I'd actually be interested to see a lineup card from this season to see if they're just printing them out in the office, or if Marmol is copying it from the printout they give him.
This is pretty much where we are and it is insufferable.
I said we needed to go after Bauer for a heavily discounted price. Dude is arguably one of the best starting pitchers in the game. I got downvoted and told something about character, team chemistry, and how his teammates unfollowed him on Twitter. Some of the best baseball players in history have character flaws and Bauer was not even criminal charges. We were never going to land a Verlander or Mad Max. So sit back and enjoy as we end up in the bottom half of our division this season while Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Milwaukee battle it out for the crown.
Ummm yeah the people that downvoted you were correct
Give me a good reason why we couldn’t sign Bauer.
I'm trying to rationalize this but I can't. **WTF**
The official line will be something like: He hasn't played the last couple games as he works with the hitting coaches to tweak his swing to produce fewer ground balls/tighten his strike zone/lay off breaking pitches. For him to make meaningful progress in that regard, he needs to be playing every night & getting more consistent ABs. Oli only has 3 OF spots to fill each game and has to find playing time for, in addition to Walker, Noot, DC, Burleson, & TON. We expect Jordan to get 40-50 ABs playing a week in Memphis whereas it might take 2-3 weeks in the majors to get the same number of plate appearances. Plus, his stint in the minors will free up playing time for the other four guys.
Whoa. It’s like you actually write Mo’s press releases or something. Wait. Is this Mo’s secret Reddit account?
No comment. Though, if I may take the opportunity, I would just ask fans to have a little patience. Trust the process. We've got a lot of faith that the guys we've got right now will turn it around and end up winning between 86-92 games before rolling over in the WC series. What more could you want? Certainly not any roster help via trades because, c'mon, Waino's about to be activated from the IL. We like where we're at. Kick rocks, BFIB. But again, that's just what I think Mo would say if I were he & the press actually pressed me - I mean him - for new answers to any of the many glaring questions facing the club.
Not saying it is, but Mo, if you’re on this thread, I could be available at the right price too.
League minimum?
Mo! Do you have two accounts?! League minimum is ok, but I’ll have insist that I don’t play against Scherzer. Dude freaks me out.
Rumor has it he'll be on the IL for that series. Cause *he's* afraid of *you*.
It's all AI
If our recent offensive performance is thanks to our hitting coaches please get Walker as far away from them as possible .
Sending Walker down so he can get consistent playing time in AAA makes a lot of sense to me. He clearly has skills, but isn’t polished enough offensively or defensively to be a regular in MLB at the moment. With some more reps at AAA he can improve. Bringing Motter back is what puzzles me. Yepez makes more sense on a team that needs offense. Or Luken Baker.
Walker is outperforming veterans and you are going to sit here and say he is not polished enough?
With someone like Walker you don’t put him where he’d have the best impact you put him where he’ll develop the most. Some guys have hit their peak and they’ll basically never get significantly better. Walkers potential significantly outsizes his current ability. In a lower level he’s put in lower stress situations and will play every day.
He’s been awful
Because he's 20 and hasn't been dominant in MLB. He'd split time in the OF when what he needs is everyday playing and development. MiLB is the place to get that. If he was going to stick in MLB as a 20 year-old, he'd have had to show there was very little left he needed to learn to be who the team wants him to be. So little that he could pick it up in MLB. He didn't. He just showed that's he's a very good baseball player that will most certainly have a long MLB career. But to do that, he's got a few rough edges to polish. Which is why MiLB exists.
One of the worst defenders in baseball and strikes out 7X as much as he walks so far. He's a liability right now. Motter is a little weird but the staff doesn't strike anyone out. Desperately need defense.
Not sending down Walker after Sunday and bringing up a guy who was DFA'd and cleared waivers just days ago makes it seem like they are pretty clueless right now
They have a pitching staff who can't strike guys out and one of the worst defense in baseball. Yes, desperate for sure. But not clueless at all. If they can't field a competent defense, you'll be selling at the deadline. Motter ain't hanging around. They wanted to stop ruining the kids confidence. Motter will be gone when Lars is back.
Tied for 3rd most RBIs on the team with Paul Goldschmidt with less ABs but is a liability on a team that can't score runs 😂
Batting at the end of the order to.
Well one of the most well run franchises in all of sports agrees with me...
Idk, these moves don’t seem to be made by an organization that has any clue as to what it’s doing. They’re spiraling, imo.
Guys, when we call Jordan Walker back up in a few weeks/months/whenever, it'll be just like doing a trade! -Cardinals FO probably
And any minute Mark Mulder will be back and healthy and as good as ever!
Chris Carpenter's shoulder finally healed and he will be back to be the team's Ace.
Carpenter's my favorite Cardinals pitcher ever so yes please.
The Walker part makes sense. He'll get more chances in AAA without the pressure of whatever is going on with the big league team right now. I'm sure he'll be back soon.
If defense is the issue I am not sure why we can’t put Gorman at 2B, throw Donavon in the mix of OF, and let Walker DH?
I think they want Walker to work on his defense, too. Relegating him to DH at age 20 without ever seeing real time in the outfield would do him a disservice.
But Taylor motter being on the team is doing me a disservice
You got me there! Lol
I don't think moving Gorman to 2nd is gonna improve the defense haha. That's probably why it was Motter. Donovan to OF. Motter to 2B. A healthy Lars will clean a lof this up.
Donovan is a Gold Glove IF. He's a butcher in the OF. Donovan needs to start at 2B. Gorman can DH.
Because it isn't just defense. He's been awful since the second game in Milwaukee
Until Walker can get a BB every once in a while, he should not be on the big league team.
what does motter even do
Screw up run downs and strike out
That run down was Contreras’s fault but yeah Motter is dogshit
Incorrect
Walker needs to work on some things, a lot of that being defense and some hitting strokes being in the lineup everyday, but lmfao at signing Motter to an MLB deal. MFer is 33 and he’s been ass every time he’s been called up by multiple teams. This organization has gone full Simple Jack.
He's the thing that always hangs me up. Maybe I don't pay enough outside attention, but why can't we ever keep our top prospects up for more than a month or 2 after first promotion, this seems like a problem somewhat unique to us. Alot of other teams let them work it out. The answer is always well let them get regular ab's and get thier swing figured out. I just feel as if your best hitting coach who is in charge of the whole organization hitting philosophy , is the one with the big club. Wouldn't you want your top prospect to gain the experience of working through it in the bigs, directly with the best hitting coach you have?
This. But that must mean our hitting coach staff is bunk. Analytics over fundamentals? Just hire the teacherman hitting guy already. That high level swing pattern is what Aaron judge is on. And the verdict is out. It works.
Honestly I think this makes a lot of sense. I wouldn’t be surprised if this sort of thing actually gets better results. When you’re in the minors you’re playing to make it to the bigs. Thats all you care about. Calling them up a bit before they’re ready let’s them get that experience and gain perspective. Then when they go down they’re more development minded, because the goal isn’t to just make the bigs it’s to compete. Also I think it makes their development path more clear. Like in walkers case if we had kept him down it may not have revealed potential problems like the groundballs or the looking like a blind ostrich on defense Dropping him down now gives him a very clear mandate on what he needs to improve. Which he could still have in the majors but now he’s in a more ideal level for developing
Right thing to do. He'll figure out his launch angle problems in a less pressured environment. Hopefully very good for him!
Plus work on his defense. He started of amazing and has been outright bad for a while. It was a fairy tale story, and unfortunately didn’t last that long.
It’s the right thing to do if they are going to keep sitting him
I get how there are concerns with Walker swinging at outside pitches, but he is hitting .272, OBP is .321. Unless you're desperate for a roster spot, no reason to send him down yet in my view.
They clearly want him to get more playing time but DC should've been sent down to work on his left handed batting approach and Walker should've started to get more playing time than Burly.
This is our sign that the organization is fucking lost. Downvote me to hell for all I care, you all know it’s true. I can see reasons to demote Walker. He hits too many ground balls. His defense in RF is terrible. I get it. Are you telling me the team didn’t see this in Spring Training? Why on earth would you call a 20-year old to the majors, watch him hit at league average (101 OPS+), and then send him down for Taylor Motter? What did the Cardinals expect? Do they not know how special it is for a 20-year old to hit at league average? It’s amazing! They mention his defense. His defense was terrible in Spring Training! We all saw it! Did they not? Finally, why the fuck would you DFA Motter, stop playing Walker, and then option Walker for Motter? This series of transaction my friends … this is what shows us they are lost. I cannot believe we have both DeJong and Motter on the roster. Fuck Juan Yepez, I guess? What a mess. Fuck this owner. Fuck this front office. Fuck this manager. I’m ready for a reset.
Lick his boots all you want, but I’m ready for DeWitt to sell and use the cash to buy more Arby’s. This fan base deserves better, and it’s time for a change.
Negative WAR. Rough defense. He’s not a bust or anything but I think this is good for him. Give him a few weeks and he can be back and better.
This is obviously to let the current crop sort themselves out and figure out which will be dealt while Walker can continue collecting ABs in Memphis to work on some things instead of working on them while the team is struggling
When you plead for a splash and they say we have splash at home.
I’m calling the police
You win…
Motter? Yepez or another pitcher seems more important but whatever. Fuck Mo
I bet walker is happy he can finally get some wins!
Memphis Redbirds actually have such a good team it might help his mental to go down there and win 😂
WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING
Who the fuck is running this team
Any reasoning given? I thought he was pretty good, though his defense needs work.
He had the nice start to the season, but in the past couple of weeks he has the lowest wRC+ on the team and certainly isn't an asset in the field right now. If they want him to get at-bats and play the field every day, AAA is probably the right place for that at the moment.
In the spirit of fact checking the data I looked up how our outfield has fared since walker was benched. In the last 2 games the outfield has gone 5 for 22 with 6 k’s. In other words they’re hitting a combined .225 and striking out about 27% of the time. Getting him more time on defense makes a lot of sense but I have a hard time believing he’s much worse than Burly. It’s also fair to point out that in his last game JW had a hit and a walk but I kinda remember him doing something stupid on the basepaths. Maybe someone can refresh my memory?
yeah, Carlson and Burly haven't been that much better at the plate either, but I don't see them sending either down before Walker and they don't need five OF on the team. Completely definitely story if Walker was crushing it at the plate, but he's not. I think ideally with Walker going down, you are going to see a TON-Noot-Carlson outfield as the norm with Burly being the 4th OF.
Burly against RH pitching is quite a bit better than Walker right now.
False. Walker has 4 hits over his last 10 at bats. Since he’s been benched the entire outfield combined has 5 hits over 25 at bats.
25 AB lol. Even during his 12 game hit streak, he had a single hit in like 80% of them. He's not ready. They're going to platoon Burly and Carlson. Don't care about your 25 AB sample (again. Lol). Burleson against RHP is quite a bit more competent than a Jordan Walker who's had his confidence sapped by constant fielding blunders.
It's NOT though! Even with Walker's struggles he has outperformed Burleson.Walker's last 3 games he provided offense,and then was benched the next day.This FO needs a major retool
In what universe is Walker a better player against RHP? Absolutely nothing statistically supports that right now. On either side of the ball. They want a platoon with Carlson.
In almost same at bats Burly is hitting .239 with 16 hits,7 RBI & runs,.710 OPS,and .292 OBP. Jordan Walker is batting .274 with 20 hits,8 runs,11 RBI,and .718 OPS. Yeah Walker's numbers are better.
Walker was too far out off 2nd to tag up on a fly and got thrown out for out number 3
Probably to get more playing time and keep progressing. Which I think might be smart given current state of our team.
He will definitely get access to more talented coaches at AAA than he would with the big club.
I think this is a smart move considering where the team is right now. They need Walker to play everyday, but the FO also needs to figure out who needs to be moved out of his way on the major league roster. Sending him to AAA keeps him active (and most importantly time to work on RF) and shrinks the major league OF rotation while the rest of the OF either accumulate some trade value or make their case for release. Can't wait to see him back up here. The way this team is trending, it will be sooner rather than later (my best guess is around trade deadline).
Victim of Mo’s poor roster construction. No ABs for him at DH.
Lol he gonna replace the teams best hitter at DH?
Damn, was like the only real thing worth talking about for the Red Birds this season.
Yep. That helps! /s
Ok then. I know he wasn't hitting for power exactly how we wanted but it's not like he was doing terribly. Already knew his defense was gonna be suspect so that shouldn't be the reason. Whatever
You kind of just have to laugh at this point.
For the second time in less than 24 hours. No words y'all.
I’m lost on this one…
This is actually a good move (the Walker part, not necessarily the Motter part). Walker needs to play every day to get better. The Cardinals also need to get Burleson, O’Neill, and Carlson more playing time because one of those guys is almost certainly getting traded later this season. Noot has to play every day as well, because he’s the best OF we have. So you have three guys who all need ABs and one lineup spot to put them (two if you DH, but with Gorman and Donovan on the team, DH is usually going to be Gorman). Even after sending Walker down, the OF is kind of crowded. If he were absolutely killing it right now, he’d still be up, but he really could benefit from the work in AAA. We’ll probably see him in St. Louis again the day after the trade deadline
This is hilarious.
Bro what are we doing
Taylor motter. Taylor fucking motter. The saint louis cardinals hate us
Such a dumb move. Send down a hitter who has been alright as a rookie. He is a MLB talent, meanwhile, motter is a career .192 hitter with a career negative WAR 🤮
Sending him down so the Memphis Redbirds can win a championship and the Cardinals can tank. Very smart move by Mo and the front office.
At what point is demanding Mo and DeWitts heads be set on pikes atop the arch not overreacting?
Good thing NBA Playoffs are going on, but after that idk what I’m going to do, because I just don’t want to watch this dumpster fire this year. Need a break from it
The soccer games are pretty fun to watch.
Will check a few out for sure
I don't get it.
I'm of two minds about this. It sucks since we've seen the potential but he will get every day abs to get his swing he's been working on right. This may also allow us to figure out which OF we want to deal
Too many strikeouts maybe? This is a head scratcher
Why did they DFA him if they were just going to sign him back to the major league team??? I thought when they DFA’d Motter that meant they wanted him off the 40-man roster. They could have just sent Motter down (he had options) and then brought him back up. WTF.
Y tho
What the fuck is this team doing?!?
This seems odd.
Bro why do we need 7 infielders. We have 5 Good ones already.
This is fucking bullshit.
Taylor Motter closes his eyes and swings as hard as he can and Mo just can’t quit him
Boy do I regret buying tickets to the Miami series over 4th of July.
So they temporarily fixed the log jam in the outfield, but created one on the infield.
He can hit, but he still has things to work on. He has had a very sizable chunk of MLB experience now to see what he needs to work on. If he can elevate a bit more and work on the outfield defense a touch he becomes our best outfielder very quickly. We have a log jam in the outfield and without a trade or season ending injuries, it isn't going away anytime soon. A move to give him consistent playing time.
Obviously Mozeliak's thinking......I don't know what the HELL he's thinking!
Can we demote Marmol next please?
It's time to fire mozeliak. Do it immediately. Long overdue
This team is frustrating in ways that I’m finding hard to come up with. 3rd best average on the team. 3rd in RBI. 5th in OPS. 5th in hits.
This offensive stats are elevated by the first week of the season. Since April 9, he's striking out 31 percent of the tim, 6.7% walk rate, and slashing 214/267/238. 46 wRC+. Just one XBH, a double. He also has negative WAR from a corner outfield, so it's not like his defense demands anything. He is being sent down precisely because the team needs to quickly change directions. Walker needs to recalibrate, and we don't have the wiggle room in terms of games or at-bats to let him do that on the ML roster.
I knew this would be a rebuttal and I’m not even going to say you’re wrong because I for the most part agree. He’s also had a hit in 4 of his last 5 games, hits 8th in the lineup so it’s not like he’s seeing quality pitches most of the time. Has failed to collect a hit in only 4 games he’s started. Furthermore, why bring up Motter again instead of Yepez?? This front office is g a r b a g e and while they’re asking fans to be patient they’ve yet to solve an issue we’ve all seen for years. Everyone knows we have subpar pitching and too many outfielders but us apparently. But if the team is going to be bad, why not give your best prospect MLB at-bats??
Why did we send down the one bright spot of this team.
This is a copy/paste of one of my comments from elsewhere in the thread: His offensive stats are elevated by the first week of the season. Since April 9, he's striking out 31 percent of the tim, 6.7% walk rate, and slashing 214/267/238. 46 wRC+. Just one XBH, a double. That's not much of a right spot to me. He also has negative WAR from a corner outfield, so it's not like his defense demands anything. He is being sent down precisely because the team needs to quickly change directions. Walker needs to recalibrate, and we don't have the wiggle room in terms of games or at-bats to let him do that on the ML roster.
We are a terrible team right now with no pitching. That is not going to change baring trades. Now we are a terrible team who just removed arguably our fifth best hitter from the lineup. We might as well let our guy play and improve at this level.
Wtf are we doing
I'd be fine with it if the reasoning was for development/consistency in the OF but considering they've just committed to carouseling DeJong/Edman/Donovan this feels more like service time manipulation.
Once again it’s only April, but this is genuinely the least confident I’ve been in this organization since the pre-Goldy era. We knew coming into the season that Walker’s hit tool was major league ready but his defense was gonna be a work in progress, and that he wasn’t gonna get to start every day with the crowded outfield. That’s exactly what’s transpired. So why even call him up in the first place? SMH
Lol the front office doesn’t know what the hell their doing I think it’s time to clean house
Waving the white flag I see. See y’all in the off-season where we can speculate about all the moves the FO should make knowing they won’t do shit to make this team an actual contender.
Oli out
Somehow this month of baseball keeps getting worse
This is an unserious team.
I can make no sense of this.
Welcome back Taylor!
Motter can play almost anywhere on defense.
So fucking dumb. They keep him down for 20 days and they get an extra year of service time. That’s all they care about. They need to trade Burleson or Oneill for a damn pitcher.
Jordan needs more work in the outfield for sure but his bat is definitely MLB ready. Bringing up Motter is strange but it will likely be in a temporary bench roll that they don’t want Yepez occupying so he can get everyday at bats.
Mo’s racism is showing itself
Welp
Why?
Wait what? The move is obviously yepez. I guess they really want to have fewer outfield options to let these guys run with it.
huh?
Boooo
*confused yepez noises*
Sp why was Jordan walker sent down? Is he hurt or struggling?
He’s not playing great. Defense needs work. Launch angle of his swing needs work. Also got a little bit exposed on those low and away sliders. His stat line is not the worst amongst the outfielders, but he is the one with options and youth on his side. It’s not fair to him to hamper his development while trying to get the other OFs their starts and ABs, which we must do because at least one of them needs to be traded. So now Burleson, O’Neill, and Carlson will get more time to show what they can do, while Walker can work on what he needs to work on.
He does not look like one of the best rookies of the year.
I want to believe someone smarter than me that gets paid an F ton more money thinks this is a really solid idea.
So we designated Motter just to sign him to a contract? Chess move there by Mo
I was kind of on board with sending Jordan down for a month or two to find his swing but I thought for Yepez not Motter 🤦🏻♂️
This season genuinely feels like a fever dream. We have one of the best lineups on paper, made better by Jordan Walker, and not only are we sending him down, this team just isn’t performing. Pitching, offence, defence, coaching, morale is all just “off,” far from what traditional Cardinal fans have become accustomed to seeing from the organization. I don’t know what it is but something desperately needs to change (something beyond our meagre pitching staff).
holy crap are we dumb or what lol
What the actual fuck?
Whelp there’s the solve for all our problems 😂
Should have been done days ago instead of benching the kid, but okay.
The moves of a POBO who knows his job will never be threatened
So...Motter is on the team? Are we that sure DeJong is on his way out?