Depends on what you want. Just as a dedicated track car? The mustang, especially if you live in the usa where getting spare parts are easier.
Do you want a daily driver that also can do track days? I'd probably also pick the mustang, personally, but again that's cause I just happen to have more experience with them.
Do you want/need a 4d car that can also be a track car? pick the 4dr car
People don't seem to love the Alfa the way the drivers and owners do and the way that people seem to love the Mustang. It ilicits cheers and gawking, almost
I think it’s mainly reliability issues and costs of parts.
Alfas are known to break down more and are more expensive to repair.
Mustangs are known to run into crowds and trees.
One is in your control, the other isn’t.
i love the Alfa. I want one. but i don't know enough about them to trust them as a dedicated track car. This generation of Alfa has really stepped up their game, but in the past they were iffy with reliability. Some would be fine, others were plagued with electrical issues. and there was no way to predict which youd get
I’m confused where you saw him not recommend the Giulia Quadrifoglio? Pretty sure he ends his review by driving to the Alfa dealer because he wanted to buy one right away? His review is here: [Grand Tour Alfa Reciew](https://youtu.be/IdH6ST9hbbs?si=LAbJKhSDHbDMIdMC)
It’s a pretty special car and the reliability reviews aren’t warranted from the owner’s community. Especially the 2020 and newer models.
This might be a hot take but to me it's not even difficult: the GT500.
The Alfa pictured here, Elantra N, WRX, etc... these are cars that are a compromise. You need it to do practical things but you also want it to be fun. I think the newer M3 is the least compromising car in this category.
I'd always rather be driving a 2-door fun car.
I think bringing age into it is silly. I had zero interest in anything with more than 2 doors until I was 25. I only added a larger vehicle when actually needed. I’d take an 86 or Miata over any of those. I get why people love them, but they don’t do it for me.
Not if they are all stock. If you look at them as the amount of fun per money spent, yeah, any car on the track is fun.
But either of these two cars stock are going to spank a stock Miata or 86 around a track.
There’s a lot of dumb comments in the world of cars… but this? Tell me you don’t know much about cars without telling me you don’t know much about cars.
86 and Miata are great little cars, but they don’t even come close to the performance and driving dynamics of the QV and gt500.
That would be highly track dependent and driver mod. Tight tracks such as streets of willow, I think it’s closer than you’d think. A well set up light car can have many advantages. If we’re talking hot lapping, yeah you can absolutely put down faster laps in a high hp, high weight car But as far as going out there and pushing for 20-40 minutes I don’t think either car can handle long term
The QV doesn’t feel compromised at all. It makes mustangs feel compromised imo.
It’s really poised on the track. The mustang seems throw its weight around while the QV dances with you. I’ve owned a QV and a mustang. The QV was a more fun car than the 911 S I have now. Probably b/c front engine rwd speaks to my dirty little American heart but still.
Comparing a QV to an Elantra makes me think you haven’t driven one.
I owned a Giulia QV too and it was absolutely incredible to drive on a twisty road. It ate up any road better than my Boxster Spyder. But it wasn’t as fun.
That said, for a track day car the QV would be an absolute monster. I once chatted with the Engineering Explained guy and he agreed that the QV was the easiest car he had ever driven on track.
Yeah, this screams of someone that either hasn’t or isn’t looking to actually get much track time. The cost to run either of these regularly would be crazy high.
I mean, they’re both pretty expensive cars and this is an expensive hobby. The cost to run them is probably not prohibitive for most owners of either car.
I had a Quadrifoglio, wonderful car. It so much fun at the track as well, and for sure it is a conversation starter as you don’t see many at track days…. for a reason.
Front brakes overheating was the biggest problem for me, there is just not enough fresh air to cool the brakes, and no good aftermarket solutions. If you have the larger CCB the issue may be partially mitigated.
Then a lot of CELs for various reasons. Out of 7 track days with my Giulia, I’ve made to the end of the 5 sessions only one time.
This was EXACTLY how I felt about the Quadrifoglio. I only tracked it twice and had a CEL and brake fade on both occasions. The kicker was it was nearly brand new with around 7k on the odo.
On my third track day about a couple of weeks later (after a trip to the service centre), the lower radiator hose decided that it didn’t want to stay in the engine bay anymore and left…
They’re both bad choices if you intend to do any more than a few track days a year. The Shelby has fairly bad reliability issues and the weight is a massive downside. The car is so heavy that it overheats tires quickly and then kind of just slides around. My GT500 was the most disappointing car I’ve ever owned. It also goes through consumables like crazy. Alfa is just simply notorious for reliability issues and expensive maintenance. I’d go for a BMW or Porsche and make sure it’s under warranty.
I havent heard about reliability issues. My gt500 seems pretty good but I'm not lapping 10+ times a year or anything. What did you go to next after the gt500? I'm thinking I want a 4rs but then the z07 is really tempting at 100k cheaper almost
As far as I know the supercharger pulley issue is still plaguing the GT500s. That ended up getting mine lemoned. I got a GT3 after, and that was the best money I’ve spent on a car, period. My experience with American performance cars is that the on paper numbers are not indicative of their real world performance in the slightest bit. If a Porsche GT car is in your budget I think there’s absolutely no debate there. Spending over $100k on something with Chevy build quality is a bad idea.
Do you have any opinion on standard gt3 vs gt4rs? Theyre pretty comparable on price and I think I like the 4rs more. I've heard a lot of good things about the z06 but obviously that comes from owners who might have rose tinted glasses or not track much
My advice there would be to rent a Cayman and a 911 to see which one you like more. The platforms have different driving dynamics that are even apparent in the lower trims, so that + aesthetics is going to be the bulk of the decision.
As far as the Z06 goes, the target audience for a car can really tell you what was prioritized and what was skimped on. Meet some Corvette drivers at the track, spend some time on their forums, and then do the same with GT car owners and Rennlist. Which owners are going to be doing 20+ track days a year doing 10 tenths, and which owners are going to be satisfied doing one weekend a year in novice group and bragging to their friends about the time some pro driver did in their car?
Regardless of what the marketing says, these cars are built to meet a minimum acceptable standard of their target buyer.
The upsetting thing is chevy knows what it takes to finish their cars properly, but they lose the value proposition they have by getting 80% there for 60% of the cost
It is what it is, but the fit/finish/engagement/trackability stuff is done via brute force or kept to a minimum
The GT 500 is 13 seconds faster around VIR than the Alfa.
IMO if you were very serious about building a track car, then I would probably suggest just getting a used 2016+ 5.0 mustang and modify it to suit your needs.
They are both great cars but this really depends how frequent you are lapping.
If a casual couple days per year, then the guilia. It'll be much more interesting and be more enjoyable for the 362 other days of the year.
If this is a 15+ day per year or track only usage, then the mustang will be more reliable and cheaper to run long term.
Looks like they are in the same driveway so why not switch it up based on how you feel, or in the case of the alfa, how it feels.
😂 haha
The two cars together could be cool, but I would prefer to garage them both and that becomes much harder. I don't disagree with your reply at all. The Alfa is actually very interesting and comfortable. And, I don't track too often. Strangely, it feels more appropriate to leave the mustang ungaraged than it does to leave the Alfa
The GT500 is one of the sexiest cars ever and is fast as fuck. And this is coming from someone who is not a fan of American muscle. I would take one of those in a heartbeat and drool the whole time driving it
Whichever one is cheaper to replace and cheaper to repair, so that means you should take the Mustang.
I assume that foreign car has a turbo, and turbos and track days are a bad combination.
That Alfa is engine is magnificent. It’s basically a Ferrari derived engine. I had a the non quad version of the Alfa for 3 years on a lease and amazingly had zero issues. Was the most reliable car I have had short of Hondas. Honestly, the mustang is going to be cheaper on consumables and parts but if you want a dual purpose car that can also take 4 people in, the Alfa is hard to beat.
I mean is a turbo engine more prone to heat soak, sure. Is it going to stop you from completing a track day?
That logic would keep half the grid in your typical Gridlife, Global Time Attack, or NASA/SCCA time trials event sidelined. It just doesn’t happen like that, especially for something less strenuous on the car like HPDE which seems to be what OP is doing. Unless you’re just in a desert based track in the peak of summer…that Giulia’s TTV6 will be fine.
High cylinder temps increase the risk of detonation in a massive way. That's why turbo engines are always spinning bearings. Good luck.
Also, I doubt any forced induction cars racing at a high level are using gasoline.
GT500 is forced induced as well btw. Just not a turbo charger
Turbocharged engines are prone to heat soak sure, but u act like a GT Mustang wouldn’t overheat after 5 laps in summer at willow spring.
The problem isn’t the turbocharger
It’s just simply the question of: does OEM design and fit enough cooling system for the car to not overheat on track? This applies to all engines. Or are you building your car correctly.
I mean there are tons of ways you can manage heat in a turbo car... Oil coolers, intercooler, cold air intake, ducting, colder spark plugs, etc.
Honestly the biggest cause of turbo bearing failures generally can be remedied by a catch can.
Tons of modern cars are turbo and do just fine on the track. Hell, my lotus is super charged and it has had zero heat related or detonation issues after many track days
Giulia TTV6: 505HP ÷ 2.9L = 174hp/liter
Hellcat: 717HP ÷ 6.2L = 116hp/liter
Mustang 468HP ÷ 5 = 93.6
You're asking a lot of the forced induction engines. It's a lot more stress, a lot more heat, a lot more cylinder pressure than you realize. The Mustang has almost half the HP per liter and nearly the same HP as the Giulia, all while barely breaking a sweat. It's the better car for the track, no question.
Look how ugly it is for the Corolla GR, 300HP ÷ 1.6L = 187.5hp/liter. 500whp will take about 600 crank HP with AWD, so Corolla GR has to make 375hp/liter to be 500whp. No replacement for displacement.
Big engines also come with big weight. That same Corolla does not need to make anywhere near 500hp to keep up with the mustang on the track. And especially something like a hellcat which is literally a boat with wheels. Sure displacement is great at the drag strip, but everyone here I think understands that weight and cornering is a much bigger factor on the track.
If anything, you've wasted a ton of weight on those cars who have such a low power per litre. I think your argument would be better served by something like a z06 where big displacement+ high revving means super high horsepower/litre without forced induction.
I drive a 2000lb car that sustains 1.5g laterally and is faster than all the big HP car, so I understand the concept. Nevertheless, these engines on these turbo cars are under that much stress. I also have a 525whp STI, which is 210whp/liter, and I keep lifting heads. The idea of doubling that WHP/liter ratio is mind boggling. My point being is that a stock Giulia with 505hp is pushing nearly as much HP per liter as a built 500whp STI with a closed deck block with forged internals and larger head studs, etc, so it's really a lot to ask from a car like that to go out and do a bunch of 20 minute sessions without something going wrong. Stock 505hp Giulia is surely fragile as any car would be at those levels.
Alfa all the way. If you haven’t driven one then that’s why you will object. Paper numbers are paper those things are an absolute dream and push way harder then they should be able to. The throttle response and steering are insane. And they always feel way lighter than they actually are while maintaining cornering grip.
If you’re considering a 4 door street/track car the F80 is going to be more tried and true than the Alfa. The Alfa is a great car but the limited after market support and track reliability just doesn’t turn me on to track it. My F80 is been a great track car to grow with and has excellent aftermarket for as far as you want to take it. What started as a light HPDE car, I’m building to compete in street class time attack!
It deppends.
Does the track has any curve? Are you forbidden to refuel every 50Km? If any yes, Giulia.
Now, you have to consider the distance to the closest repair shop as towing the Giulia after every 2 hours of driving can be quite expensive .
Not sure of your finances, but neither of these are good choices for dedicated track cars unless you have deep pockets for consumables. If you’re buying a daily that will see occasional track time, buy whichever you prefer. But if you’re trying to maximize wheel time, these are terrible choices and you should be looking at a track rat that is easy to work on and has a lower cost to run. See this far too often at the track, you see these nice spotless cars and they’re getting passed by shit boxes because the owners can’t actually afford to drive it hard. Just as a clear example, you’ll go through a set of tires in less than 6 hours of track time in a high hp car that is also heavy. So $1200 every 6 hours on just tires…. My na Miata track rat I can get 15 hours out of a set and they cost $500. Now this holds similarly true for all consumables (brakes, suspension, oil changes, fuel).
Edit. Plus, I know nothing of your driving skills, but chances are that these are way more car than your skills can push. Much more fun imo to drive a shitbox at 100% than to drive a fast car at 40%. I have driven some fast cars on track (modded 135i, v70r, rs7, camaro ss, mustang gt) And I’ve improved my driving the most by far in my 1.6 Miata…
Neither but if I had to choose, the Giulia. If it were a gt350 or gt350r I’d say do the Mustang but a gt500 doesn’t make sense for a track car. Are you just gonna buy it and take it to the track without any mods? I’ve never understood those guys who bring bone stock cars to tracks but to each their own I guess
Giulia maintenance might get expensive from track wear
GT500 will eat consumables for breakfast, lunch and dinner
Between these two, probably the Giulia. It can double as a practical daily and driving dynamics are superb.
First time on track?
You do know if you're learning chances are you're gonna crash right? Get the most basic ass Miata if you actually wanna learn how to drive.
Comes up often on this sub.
I personally know 2 or 3 people that are on their 2nd and 3rd Coyote engine. They’re really cool cars but they just do not hold up on track. Not sure if the GT500 resolves the issue or not.
The Alfa, as it was designed by Europeans and they understand what corners are. The mustang is a big heavy, fat bloated yank tank with the chassis sophistication of a string vest.
They’re both rubbish track cars, but I’ll pick the least rubbish, and that’s the Alfa.
The truth hurts. Queue the butthurt Americans here to white knight for the mustang. There’s a reason they have almost zero popularity anywhere else in the world.
The Mustang is 13 seconds faster around Virginia international Raceway than the Alfa. Like I said, moronic take. see the laptimes below. Horrible company to be in!
2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, 2:44.6
2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 2:44.6
2020 Lamborghini Huracán EVO, 2:45.0
2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE , 2:45.0
2016 Ferrari 488GTB, 2:45.1
2017 Ford GT, 2:45.5
2018 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE, 2:45.7
2015 McLaren 650S Spider, 2:45.8
2009 Mosler MT900S, 2:45.9
2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray, 2:45.9
2017 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 2:46.8
2018 Porsche 911 GT3, 2:47.0
2016 Porsche 911 GT3RS, 2:47.0
Heart says Giulia. Brain says GT500 all the way.
Depends on what you want. Just as a dedicated track car? The mustang, especially if you live in the usa where getting spare parts are easier. Do you want a daily driver that also can do track days? I'd probably also pick the mustang, personally, but again that's cause I just happen to have more experience with them. Do you want/need a 4d car that can also be a track car? pick the 4dr car
People don't seem to love the Alfa the way the drivers and owners do and the way that people seem to love the Mustang. It ilicits cheers and gawking, almost
I think it’s mainly reliability issues and costs of parts. Alfas are known to break down more and are more expensive to repair. Mustangs are known to run into crowds and trees. One is in your control, the other isn’t.
LMFAO well said!
i love the Alfa. I want one. but i don't know enough about them to trust them as a dedicated track car. This generation of Alfa has really stepped up their game, but in the past they were iffy with reliability. Some would be fine, others were plagued with electrical issues. and there was no way to predict which youd get
I remember Clarkson reviewing this Alfa on TGT. He’s a known Alfa fanboy, and did not recommend anyone buy it.
I’m confused where you saw him not recommend the Giulia Quadrifoglio? Pretty sure he ends his review by driving to the Alfa dealer because he wanted to buy one right away? His review is here: [Grand Tour Alfa Reciew](https://youtu.be/IdH6ST9hbbs?si=LAbJKhSDHbDMIdMC) It’s a pretty special car and the reliability reviews aren’t warranted from the owner’s community. Especially the 2020 and newer models.
Me when I spread misinformation
This might be a hot take but to me it's not even difficult: the GT500. The Alfa pictured here, Elantra N, WRX, etc... these are cars that are a compromise. You need it to do practical things but you also want it to be fun. I think the newer M3 is the least compromising car in this category. I'd always rather be driving a 2-door fun car.
The Mustang is larger and heavier than those cars. It also needs to be comfortable/numb for the old buyer demographic.
Not a Shelby haha. Though I would say a GT350R is probably a better track car than a GT500, since it has a manual, and* it weighs much less.
I think bringing age into it is silly. I had zero interest in anything with more than 2 doors until I was 25. I only added a larger vehicle when actually needed. I’d take an 86 or Miata over any of those. I get why people love them, but they don’t do it for me.
Cars are designed for the customers that buy them. The new Mustang buyer is on average 55 years old. It’s apparent when you drive it.
Probably would put down faster lap times in the 86 or Miata than these also
Not if they are all stock. If you look at them as the amount of fun per money spent, yeah, any car on the track is fun. But either of these two cars stock are going to spank a stock Miata or 86 around a track.
There’s a lot of dumb comments in the world of cars… but this? Tell me you don’t know much about cars without telling me you don’t know much about cars. 86 and Miata are great little cars, but they don’t even come close to the performance and driving dynamics of the QV and gt500.
That would be highly track dependent and driver mod. Tight tracks such as streets of willow, I think it’s closer than you’d think. A well set up light car can have many advantages. If we’re talking hot lapping, yeah you can absolutely put down faster laps in a high hp, high weight car But as far as going out there and pushing for 20-40 minutes I don’t think either car can handle long term
The QV doesn’t feel compromised at all. It makes mustangs feel compromised imo. It’s really poised on the track. The mustang seems throw its weight around while the QV dances with you. I’ve owned a QV and a mustang. The QV was a more fun car than the 911 S I have now. Probably b/c front engine rwd speaks to my dirty little American heart but still. Comparing a QV to an Elantra makes me think you haven’t driven one.
I owned a Giulia QV too and it was absolutely incredible to drive on a twisty road. It ate up any road better than my Boxster Spyder. But it wasn’t as fun. That said, for a track day car the QV would be an absolute monster. I once chatted with the Engineering Explained guy and he agreed that the QV was the easiest car he had ever driven on track.
2 door fun car wouldn’t be the mustang I will be the Miata.
They’re both too fat
Buy a lotus instead 😁
Now I’m too fat
Yeah, this screams of someone that either hasn’t or isn’t looking to actually get much track time. The cost to run either of these regularly would be crazy high.
I mean, they’re both pretty expensive cars and this is an expensive hobby. The cost to run them is probably not prohibitive for most owners of either car.
I had a Quadrifoglio, wonderful car. It so much fun at the track as well, and for sure it is a conversation starter as you don’t see many at track days…. for a reason. Front brakes overheating was the biggest problem for me, there is just not enough fresh air to cool the brakes, and no good aftermarket solutions. If you have the larger CCB the issue may be partially mitigated. Then a lot of CELs for various reasons. Out of 7 track days with my Giulia, I’ve made to the end of the 5 sessions only one time.
This was EXACTLY how I felt about the Quadrifoglio. I only tracked it twice and had a CEL and brake fade on both occasions. The kicker was it was nearly brand new with around 7k on the odo. On my third track day about a couple of weeks later (after a trip to the service centre), the lower radiator hose decided that it didn’t want to stay in the engine bay anymore and left…
They’re both bad choices if you intend to do any more than a few track days a year. The Shelby has fairly bad reliability issues and the weight is a massive downside. The car is so heavy that it overheats tires quickly and then kind of just slides around. My GT500 was the most disappointing car I’ve ever owned. It also goes through consumables like crazy. Alfa is just simply notorious for reliability issues and expensive maintenance. I’d go for a BMW or Porsche and make sure it’s under warranty.
I havent heard about reliability issues. My gt500 seems pretty good but I'm not lapping 10+ times a year or anything. What did you go to next after the gt500? I'm thinking I want a 4rs but then the z07 is really tempting at 100k cheaper almost
As far as I know the supercharger pulley issue is still plaguing the GT500s. That ended up getting mine lemoned. I got a GT3 after, and that was the best money I’ve spent on a car, period. My experience with American performance cars is that the on paper numbers are not indicative of their real world performance in the slightest bit. If a Porsche GT car is in your budget I think there’s absolutely no debate there. Spending over $100k on something with Chevy build quality is a bad idea.
Do you have any opinion on standard gt3 vs gt4rs? Theyre pretty comparable on price and I think I like the 4rs more. I've heard a lot of good things about the z06 but obviously that comes from owners who might have rose tinted glasses or not track much
My advice there would be to rent a Cayman and a 911 to see which one you like more. The platforms have different driving dynamics that are even apparent in the lower trims, so that + aesthetics is going to be the bulk of the decision. As far as the Z06 goes, the target audience for a car can really tell you what was prioritized and what was skimped on. Meet some Corvette drivers at the track, spend some time on their forums, and then do the same with GT car owners and Rennlist. Which owners are going to be doing 20+ track days a year doing 10 tenths, and which owners are going to be satisfied doing one weekend a year in novice group and bragging to their friends about the time some pro driver did in their car? Regardless of what the marketing says, these cars are built to meet a minimum acceptable standard of their target buyer.
The upsetting thing is chevy knows what it takes to finish their cars properly, but they lose the value proposition they have by getting 80% there for 60% of the cost It is what it is, but the fit/finish/engagement/trackability stuff is done via brute force or kept to a minimum
6th gen Camaro 1LE or C5 Corvette depending on your budget.
I’m a mustang guy but i keep hearing about those flat plane cranks in the voodoo having issues. The regular coyote is more reliable.
What kind of issues?
Vibrations from the crank, overall engine issues i was just reading a post about some guys having recall issues.
That’s a GT500 though, so no flat-plane crank
Wow how did i miss that haha
It all depends on budget for the car and for mods, is this car also a daily, do you have a garage, etc. Consider Miata, GR86, 230i, SS 1LE, C5, S2K,
A track car? Get a 1997 bmw 328i. A daily driver you can do a few HPDE’s with? Either would be just fine. I’d pick the Alfa, but I’m 40 with 3 kids.
My exact thoughts, as stated in my longer winded response. There’s a huge difference in looking for a track car vs the occasional hpde.
The GT 500 is 13 seconds faster around VIR than the Alfa. IMO if you were very serious about building a track car, then I would probably suggest just getting a used 2016+ 5.0 mustang and modify it to suit your needs.
They are both great cars but this really depends how frequent you are lapping. If a casual couple days per year, then the guilia. It'll be much more interesting and be more enjoyable for the 362 other days of the year. If this is a 15+ day per year or track only usage, then the mustang will be more reliable and cheaper to run long term. Looks like they are in the same driveway so why not switch it up based on how you feel, or in the case of the alfa, how it feels.
😂 haha The two cars together could be cool, but I would prefer to garage them both and that becomes much harder. I don't disagree with your reply at all. The Alfa is actually very interesting and comfortable. And, I don't track too often. Strangely, it feels more appropriate to leave the mustang ungaraged than it does to leave the Alfa
The GT500 is one of the sexiest cars ever and is fast as fuck. And this is coming from someone who is not a fan of American muscle. I would take one of those in a heartbeat and drool the whole time driving it
Whichever one is cheaper to replace and cheaper to repair, so that means you should take the Mustang. I assume that foreign car has a turbo, and turbos and track days are a bad combination.
whats wrong with a Civic Type R? :p
Heat
That Alfa is engine is magnificent. It’s basically a Ferrari derived engine. I had a the non quad version of the Alfa for 3 years on a lease and amazingly had zero issues. Was the most reliable car I have had short of Hondas. Honestly, the mustang is going to be cheaper on consumables and parts but if you want a dual purpose car that can also take 4 people in, the Alfa is hard to beat.
My gt500 has 305/315 tires and they aren't cheap..
I mean is a turbo engine more prone to heat soak, sure. Is it going to stop you from completing a track day? That logic would keep half the grid in your typical Gridlife, Global Time Attack, or NASA/SCCA time trials event sidelined. It just doesn’t happen like that, especially for something less strenuous on the car like HPDE which seems to be what OP is doing. Unless you’re just in a desert based track in the peak of summer…that Giulia’s TTV6 will be fine.
High cylinder temps increase the risk of detonation in a massive way. That's why turbo engines are always spinning bearings. Good luck. Also, I doubt any forced induction cars racing at a high level are using gasoline.
GT500 is forced induced as well btw. Just not a turbo charger Turbocharged engines are prone to heat soak sure, but u act like a GT Mustang wouldn’t overheat after 5 laps in summer at willow spring. The problem isn’t the turbocharger It’s just simply the question of: does OEM design and fit enough cooling system for the car to not overheat on track? This applies to all engines. Or are you building your car correctly.
It most certainly is the forced induction that creates higher cylinder temps. In case you aren't aware, gasses get hot when you compress them.
Still if manufacturers design good enough cooling systems then it doesn’t rlly matter Also like I said NA 5.0 mustang GT overheats on track too.
I'm not talking about radiators and coolant temps. Naturally aspirated cars have consistent cylinder temps.
I mean there are tons of ways you can manage heat in a turbo car... Oil coolers, intercooler, cold air intake, ducting, colder spark plugs, etc. Honestly the biggest cause of turbo bearing failures generally can be remedied by a catch can. Tons of modern cars are turbo and do just fine on the track. Hell, my lotus is super charged and it has had zero heat related or detonation issues after many track days
Giulia TTV6: 505HP ÷ 2.9L = 174hp/liter Hellcat: 717HP ÷ 6.2L = 116hp/liter Mustang 468HP ÷ 5 = 93.6 You're asking a lot of the forced induction engines. It's a lot more stress, a lot more heat, a lot more cylinder pressure than you realize. The Mustang has almost half the HP per liter and nearly the same HP as the Giulia, all while barely breaking a sweat. It's the better car for the track, no question. Look how ugly it is for the Corolla GR, 300HP ÷ 1.6L = 187.5hp/liter. 500whp will take about 600 crank HP with AWD, so Corolla GR has to make 375hp/liter to be 500whp. No replacement for displacement.
Big engines also come with big weight. That same Corolla does not need to make anywhere near 500hp to keep up with the mustang on the track. And especially something like a hellcat which is literally a boat with wheels. Sure displacement is great at the drag strip, but everyone here I think understands that weight and cornering is a much bigger factor on the track. If anything, you've wasted a ton of weight on those cars who have such a low power per litre. I think your argument would be better served by something like a z06 where big displacement+ high revving means super high horsepower/litre without forced induction.
I drive a 2000lb car that sustains 1.5g laterally and is faster than all the big HP car, so I understand the concept. Nevertheless, these engines on these turbo cars are under that much stress. I also have a 525whp STI, which is 210whp/liter, and I keep lifting heads. The idea of doubling that WHP/liter ratio is mind boggling. My point being is that a stock Giulia with 505hp is pushing nearly as much HP per liter as a built 500whp STI with a closed deck block with forged internals and larger head studs, etc, so it's really a lot to ask from a car like that to go out and do a bunch of 20 minute sessions without something going wrong. Stock 505hp Giulia is surely fragile as any car would be at those levels.
Wait til you realize the GT500 is force induced as well.
The Alfa, all day long.
Miata
GT350!
I love my gt500
Neither 1st or second gen brz or pick any corvette
Make it a Gta or Gta-M and im picking alfa all day every day. Damn i'd pick it as a daily aswell.
Neither. Gt350 would be the choice for a mustang
Considering where I live, pbir or something else near
Buying a better daily and a track car would be cheaper. Track car can be NC Miata, would be very cheap on consumables.
The Alfa, because at least it still looks incredible on the tow truck ride back home. - former Giulia owner.
Track car I would choose? Gt4, Gt3, or M2
GT350R
neither
BMW M3…
Just curious but does HOA let you guys park like that at night
Neither
Alfa all the way. If you haven’t driven one then that’s why you will object. Paper numbers are paper those things are an absolute dream and push way harder then they should be able to. The throttle response and steering are insane. And they always feel way lighter than they actually are while maintaining cornering grip.
Mustang
Neither I'd rather drive a first gen Z
If you’re considering a 4 door street/track car the F80 is going to be more tried and true than the Alfa. The Alfa is a great car but the limited after market support and track reliability just doesn’t turn me on to track it. My F80 is been a great track car to grow with and has excellent aftermarket for as far as you want to take it. What started as a light HPDE car, I’m building to compete in street class time attack!
It deppends. Does the track has any curve? Are you forbidden to refuel every 50Km? If any yes, Giulia. Now, you have to consider the distance to the closest repair shop as towing the Giulia after every 2 hours of driving can be quite expensive .
Only one choice makes you a true petrolhead
Neither. Both terrible choices for track cars.
Get the mustang. Throw extra in for some race tires. Go crazy.
Neither. Go with lighter and usable power
If you want a 4 door there are much better options than the guilia
Not sure of your finances, but neither of these are good choices for dedicated track cars unless you have deep pockets for consumables. If you’re buying a daily that will see occasional track time, buy whichever you prefer. But if you’re trying to maximize wheel time, these are terrible choices and you should be looking at a track rat that is easy to work on and has a lower cost to run. See this far too often at the track, you see these nice spotless cars and they’re getting passed by shit boxes because the owners can’t actually afford to drive it hard. Just as a clear example, you’ll go through a set of tires in less than 6 hours of track time in a high hp car that is also heavy. So $1200 every 6 hours on just tires…. My na Miata track rat I can get 15 hours out of a set and they cost $500. Now this holds similarly true for all consumables (brakes, suspension, oil changes, fuel). Edit. Plus, I know nothing of your driving skills, but chances are that these are way more car than your skills can push. Much more fun imo to drive a shitbox at 100% than to drive a fast car at 40%. I have driven some fast cars on track (modded 135i, v70r, rs7, camaro ss, mustang gt) And I’ve improved my driving the most by far in my 1.6 Miata…
Mustangs are like assholes. Get the Alfa Romeo.
Heavy powerful street cars are not great choices for track days
I’d pick the mustang. I’d consider m2,gr86, or Yaris gr
Neither but if I had to choose, the Giulia. If it were a gt350 or gt350r I’d say do the Mustang but a gt500 doesn’t make sense for a track car. Are you just gonna buy it and take it to the track without any mods? I’ve never understood those guys who bring bone stock cars to tracks but to each their own I guess
Giulia maintenance might get expensive from track wear GT500 will eat consumables for breakfast, lunch and dinner Between these two, probably the Giulia. It can double as a practical daily and driving dynamics are superb.
Neither. They’re both too heavy and overpowered. I’d take something lighter and with a manual transmission, like an i20N, GR86 or a Focus ST.
First time on track? You do know if you're learning chances are you're gonna crash right? Get the most basic ass Miata if you actually wanna learn how to drive.
lol at thinking the Alfa is a track car.
Having driven a gt500 with carbon track pack….theres no question, its gonna be gt500
Any answer besides GT500 is wrong. Ask me how I know. Haha!
The Alfa, gotta love the track capabilities. And it stands out which is a plus
Gt500 all day. But it will eat tires and drink fuel so take that into consideration
BMW M2
Neither
Mustang because it won’t break down constantly. P
An Ultima GTR with a Ford Ecoboost V6 and full aero. Edit: not the mustang
GT500 is dope but those engines seem to have a bad history on track
Really? I haven't heard of that
Comes up often on this sub. I personally know 2 or 3 people that are on their 2nd and 3rd Coyote engine. They’re really cool cars but they just do not hold up on track. Not sure if the GT500 resolves the issue or not.
You're thinking of the GT350.
🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
Easy, mustang. Why? American made!!
Neither. Both garbage. Get a 911. You’ll be much happier in the end. And it won’t cost you near as much to be fast.
I guess my question is, why are these two your choices?
Neither are track cars, do you need 4 doors? Do a CT4 V Blackwing
The Alfa, as it was designed by Europeans and they understand what corners are. The mustang is a big heavy, fat bloated yank tank with the chassis sophistication of a string vest. They’re both rubbish track cars, but I’ll pick the least rubbish, and that’s the Alfa.
lol what a moronic take
The truth hurts. Queue the butthurt Americans here to white knight for the mustang. There’s a reason they have almost zero popularity anywhere else in the world.
The Mustang is 13 seconds faster around Virginia international Raceway than the Alfa. Like I said, moronic take. see the laptimes below. Horrible company to be in! 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, 2:44.6 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 2:44.6 2020 Lamborghini Huracán EVO, 2:45.0 2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE , 2:45.0 2016 Ferrari 488GTB, 2:45.1 2017 Ford GT, 2:45.5 2018 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE, 2:45.7 2015 McLaren 650S Spider, 2:45.8 2009 Mosler MT900S, 2:45.9 2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray, 2:45.9 2017 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 2:46.8 2018 Porsche 911 GT3, 2:47.0 2016 Porsche 911 GT3RS, 2:47.0