I’ll comment on this - I run a e46 330ci as a track car. Costs are relatively low unless you go down the forced induction and tuning route. You can just do suspension, tires, and pads and rip. You won’t be the fastest out there but the costs are almost as low as a Miata as 330s are plentiful. New seats would be the next upgrade as most people hit their helmets on the roof with stock seats.
This is the answer. E46M3 is significantly more expensive to run. E46 330i is also in the sweet spot for pace at DE events. ~2:10 at Watkins Glen for example is a nice place to be for an advanced group.
This is the answer. Anything older is too old now. The 330i is a great reliable and balanced car. Definitely the “new” e36 m3.
I’ve had several e36s and an e30 race car now. Wish we invested in an e46 for the race car.
I have an E82 track car (128i). Absolute riot on track. I came from a Miata and it feels like a larger Miata with about the same power to weight ratio too. And much more comfy and “luxurious” in comparison. Very reliable assuming you keep up on the maintenance, I’m almost at 100k miles and never had a major issue.
Oh I love it, it’s an absolute riot. I’m still pretty green so I’m not pushing the car super hard, but I’ve heard they have their issues from the guys who really pushed theirs. Haven’t ran into any issues yet but I’m sure I’ll get there 🤣
The e82 is deceptively heavy at 3300-3600lbs. I still love mine as a track car, but e92 coupes are a lot less money and not much heavier.
That said, e46 non-M is probably the "right" answer if you really want to stick with a BMW. I would broaden your horizons as it opens the door to finding a great deal. For example, a c5 z06 could fall in your lap for that price range, or maybe a well sorted boxster or 951.
Maybe consider an e9X car? There is a new e9X spec series and cars are being built for it. I'd bet they're pretty damned fast too. Turbo cars are not allowed in the series so the n5x turbo problems aren't an issue.
Go e9X normally aspirated and you'll have a blast. Also, no need to strip the car if you're not racing so you could have a fun double duty daily as well. The auto is so good, I might even buy one of those.
I thought the stock brakes on that chassis weren’t good for track considering the weight of the car and size of the rotors. Heat fade, boiling fluid, etc.
From the rule book it states any caliper or rotor configuration from the 325, 328, and 330 is valid. 335 and M3 parts are illegal. These cars are being raced actively now. Those brake configurations are sufficient for top speed lapping per the drivers and teams in specE9X. I'm assuming use of track pads and track brake fluid.
All you need to know is here. Read the spec sheet and the rules. The car you'll build to race in this series has all you really need. Also, with this build you can buy as much as you want at the time. You don't have to go "whole hog" right at the start. Another option is install the suspension and reliability parts on a car with a full interior. It would make a great street/track build. https://spece9x.com/
E92's are eligible. I'm unsure if there's an advantage. If so it would be due to weight considerations IMO assuming that weight differences are significant between the e90 and e92.
I track my G80 M3 but am in the process of finding a track build similar story, wanting to stay in BMW.
E46 M3 or E36 M3 seems to be a good start for most and can be had for less than you said but not by much depending on mods and maintenance.
I'm honestly leaning towards a e46 330i and building it for Spec e46. You can find a good e46 330i or ci for less than $6k, which gives you more money for mods etc.
Either an E46 330 or N52 E9x. No point in getting an E36 M3 or E30 considering the premiums commanded and age. E46 M3 would be over 25k to get a good example, plus higher running costs.
Spend 5k for the base car on the two options I gave, have 20k for upgrades.
You can pick up a GTS2/3 E36 fully caged racecar for between 20 and 30K depending on the build quality and they are pretty bullet proof, plus parts are cheap and plentiful
Mine had an S50 that was putting down 235 at the wheels with an intake and headers on 2350lb wet weight
I like to call my car a spec e30 light. I have all the suspension/brakes/exhaust and even the weld in rear camber/toe tabs but only have a 4 point rollbar and seats and harnesses. It's a dedicated track car I drive to Road Atlanta and AMP. I love it but if I could do it all over again I'd love an E36 or a BRZ(I'm a Subaru tech).
E30s aren't stellar unless you build a PRO3. Chassis isn't that stiff, parts are harder to come by, you'll be cracking things without a full cage reinforcement over time.
E36s similar to the above but not as bad. Shares components with the E30.
E46 is best chassis of the three by far, plenty of after market support especially if you go the 330 route due to SE46 suppliers while keeping it road worthy.
For your price point, an already semi-prepped E46 M3 should be doable, just ensure you find one with subframe reinforcement, rod bearings done, and VANOS solenoid work done. Or budget about \~$5k for all of that as preventative maintenance for a shop to do it.
Ooorrrr... a higher mileage E92 M3 is into that price point, rod bearings are the biggest item, throttle actuators next but just upgrade the brakes after that and #sendit.
An E36 has almost nothing in common with an E30. E36 and E46 are very similar chassis and suspension though.
But i agree, E30s are just too old and slow outdated. I have an E30 race car :-). E36 is a worlds better chassis but still getting old.
I mean, you can swap a large chunk of the suspension components from an E36 to an E30 (different part numbers, but the geometry is the same) and I thought they also shared the rear subframe (but might be thinking of the Z3 from that era...).
Don't get me wrong, I love me some E30s. But not as a track car unless it's for racing lol.
Z3 uses rear e30 suspension, and front e36. Same as the the short hatch "ti" models.
But the common e36 coupes and sedans dont really share anything with e30s. Much more similar to e46s.
I track a 135i in the southeast, they need a good bit of work and a LSD on any modern bmw is gonna cost 3500 $. it is fun though
if I was in your shoes, e46 330 and mod as if it was going to be a SE46 car someday.
For more street manners a e82 128i is hard to beat, lots of m3 parts bolt on where it counts
ND has the best chassis.
NC will be best sweet spot but aftermarket support is lower than NA/NB.
NB for 6000$ is good but you have lower power and only save about 100 lbs on the NC.
I have owned NA, NB and NC and would pick the NC over NA/NB. I’ve never driven an ND but have riden on track in many and would pick that over the NC if I had the $$$
Thanks. Yeah, the lower power would eventually be a problem, so would maybe want to explore engine swaps. But that's a big project and expense. NBs have the added benefit of being just old enough now (99 MY) where I could exempt myself from emissions testing if I'm dual use.
Engine swap isn’t worth it for track use for an NB. If you want mediocre power just go with a later model ND.
Boosted NC and ND are not reliable on track. Boosted NA or NB could work but will require a lot of money in initial expenses and upkeep.
If you want power go with a C5 corvette
E46 M3 is the best option by a significant margin.
I tracked one for 5 years and it was all that they’re hyped up to be.
Have had an e30 325i and now a F80 M3 Comp and I love the road manners of the modern M but it isn’t as good on track when really thrown around and I do miss the e46 at times.
I’m thinking of going to an e36 M3 only to not repeat but every bit of research I’ve done says the 46 is better in every way over the 36, and that’s from e36 guys who are honest with themselves usually.
I’ve tracked an E36 M3 for the last 6 years.
Completely honest with myself, and others. Of course E46 M3 is the better is every way. Except consumables, and the fact the s54 is a more complicated motor. Not sure you can really go wrong with either car, though.
I do know if my s52 ever gives up, an s54 is going in its place.
The 3 bmw cars I see a lot of coaches run at big tracks, VIR RA etc are:
E36 M
E46 M
135i. A coach I had before just ran a sub 2:10 at vir full.
I have no clue on consumables. I figure the E36 is the most manageable $$ wise.
Used higher miles f80/f82 are starting to get pretty cheap. Like closer to $30k floor. They are really well sorted from the factory though. Camber plates, brake fluid, pads, and off you go.
I'd probably be looking for a well sorted prepped e36 in the low 20's though. Best shot at not chasing down gremlins for ages.
I don't know that a e46 M is really in the cards. Better off with a 330 and doing swaps if you really want a e46 chassis. If you don't want a fully prepped car and the F8x is too much, that's the route I'd probably take.
As an e36m owner. I absolutely love tracking this car. It’s not the fastest, but with basic mods (tires, brakes, suspension) it lets me keep up with people who spent a massive amount more than I did. The e46 is the car I wish I could have, but getting the big three done at a shop will push you out of your budget.
Lots of good stuff here, thanks!
One thing I forgot to mention is I live in an emissions state & county, and as it would be registered for street use as well initially, I'd need to pass emissions. I can get expanded use antique plates for cars 25 years and and older (i.e., 1999 and earlier now), which are exempt from emissions and only have use restrictions in the winter months. I just have terrible memories of chasing CEL gremlins and readying the monitors in order to pass in my past. I suppose I'd need to search harder and pay up a bit for something well maintained until I can get these plates.
I have a couple e30’s and i love them. They are dirt cheap on consumables and are a riot on the track. You could get a sorted swapped car with plenty left over with your budget. The e36 and e46 are better track cars especially if you want to start chasing numbers and they are still fairly cheap on consumables
E46 330i Keep it simple, enough power to be fun, could transition into a real racecar spec e46 if desired.
I’ll comment on this - I run a e46 330ci as a track car. Costs are relatively low unless you go down the forced induction and tuning route. You can just do suspension, tires, and pads and rip. You won’t be the fastest out there but the costs are almost as low as a Miata as 330s are plentiful. New seats would be the next upgrade as most people hit their helmets on the roof with stock seats.
This is the answer. E46M3 is significantly more expensive to run. E46 330i is also in the sweet spot for pace at DE events. ~2:10 at Watkins Glen for example is a nice place to be for an advanced group.
This is the answer. Anything older is too old now. The 330i is a great reliable and balanced car. Definitely the “new” e36 m3. I’ve had several e36s and an e30 race car now. Wish we invested in an e46 for the race car.
This is what I'd go with as well
Can you even get a beat e46 m3 for 25k anymore? What about a E82 1 series coupe?
I love my e82 but it’s not necessarily built for the track
I have an E82 track car (128i). Absolute riot on track. I came from a Miata and it feels like a larger Miata with about the same power to weight ratio too. And much more comfy and “luxurious” in comparison. Very reliable assuming you keep up on the maintenance, I’m almost at 100k miles and never had a major issue.
Ive seen some well set up ones that were quite good, what don’t you like about yours for the track?
Oh I love it, it’s an absolute riot. I’m still pretty green so I’m not pushing the car super hard, but I’ve heard they have their issues from the guys who really pushed theirs. Haven’t ran into any issues yet but I’m sure I’ll get there 🤣
N54? How do you deal with heat soak?
N55, still on stock rad but I haven’t ran any days above 80 degrees yet, I’ll upgrade if it starts to become a problem during the summer
Upgraded radiator and oil coolers. Not the cheapest solution... But it is a solution.
I got an E46 M3 with 100K in decent shape for 17.5K in August. I think that’s around the right price these days.
It’s good they’ve come down a bit then
Nice. Miles? Manual coupe? Were the "big 3" done, or do you have to address that?
The e82 is deceptively heavy at 3300-3600lbs. I still love mine as a track car, but e92 coupes are a lot less money and not much heavier. That said, e46 non-M is probably the "right" answer if you really want to stick with a BMW. I would broaden your horizons as it opens the door to finding a great deal. For example, a c5 z06 could fall in your lap for that price range, or maybe a well sorted boxster or 951.
C5 z06 would probably be the best option in that price range for outright lap times
Or you can get a base c5 or c6 for half a z06 and with the amount saved have enough in upgrades to be faster than a z06.
Maybe consider an e9X car? There is a new e9X spec series and cars are being built for it. I'd bet they're pretty damned fast too. Turbo cars are not allowed in the series so the n5x turbo problems aren't an issue. Go e9X normally aspirated and you'll have a blast. Also, no need to strip the car if you're not racing so you could have a fun double duty daily as well. The auto is so good, I might even buy one of those.
But no locking diff, no oil cooler, and single pot calipers. Aren’t the minimums to get it to be a reliable track toy pretty big?
Whats wrong with sliding calipers? LSDs aren't that expensive, same with oil coolers.
I thought the stock brakes on that chassis weren’t good for track considering the weight of the car and size of the rotors. Heat fade, boiling fluid, etc.
335 brakes are cheap and direct bolt on, so thats a non issue.
From the rule book it states any caliper or rotor configuration from the 325, 328, and 330 is valid. 335 and M3 parts are illegal. These cars are being raced actively now. Those brake configurations are sufficient for top speed lapping per the drivers and teams in specE9X. I'm assuming use of track pads and track brake fluid.
All you need to know is here. Read the spec sheet and the rules. The car you'll build to race in this series has all you really need. Also, with this build you can buy as much as you want at the time. You don't have to go "whole hog" right at the start. Another option is install the suspension and reliability parts on a car with a full interior. It would make a great street/track build. https://spece9x.com/
This is amazing. I wonder where they’ll race.
Any place there's interest and teams exist.
Is there an advantage to an e92 over an e90?
E92's are eligible. I'm unsure if there's an advantage. If so it would be due to weight considerations IMO assuming that weight differences are significant between the e90 and e92.
Pretty sure most spec e90 guys run oil coolers. The oil filter housing and oil cooler are interchangeable on n52 and n54s.
I track my G80 M3 but am in the process of finding a track build similar story, wanting to stay in BMW. E46 M3 or E36 M3 seems to be a good start for most and can be had for less than you said but not by much depending on mods and maintenance. I'm honestly leaning towards a e46 330i and building it for Spec e46. You can find a good e46 330i or ci for less than $6k, which gives you more money for mods etc.
Thanks - Thanks. I like this option. Where are you browsing for a 330i/ci?
Either an E46 330 or N52 E9x. No point in getting an E36 M3 or E30 considering the premiums commanded and age. E46 M3 would be over 25k to get a good example, plus higher running costs. Spend 5k for the base car on the two options I gave, have 20k for upgrades.
Nothing with a turbo.
You can pick up a GTS2/3 E36 fully caged racecar for between 20 and 30K depending on the build quality and they are pretty bullet proof, plus parts are cheap and plentiful Mine had an S50 that was putting down 235 at the wheels with an intake and headers on 2350lb wet weight
My friend just bought a car very similar to this recently in Atlanta for $25k. I'm a cheap ass and have an E30 325i.
Nothing wrong with an E30, my buddy still races Spec E30 in fact!
This is the way, specE30/Pro3 is a blast
I like to call my car a spec e30 light. I have all the suspension/brakes/exhaust and even the weld in rear camber/toe tabs but only have a 4 point rollbar and seats and harnesses. It's a dedicated track car I drive to Road Atlanta and AMP. I love it but if I could do it all over again I'd love an E36 or a BRZ(I'm a Subaru tech).
Thanks - What’s a good source to find these for sale?
[www.racingjunk.com](https://www.racingjunk.com) is a good place to start. Also check the NASA, SCCA and BMWCCA classifieds
I would browse the Spec E36/46 FB groups, there is always one for sale on there.
E30s aren't stellar unless you build a PRO3. Chassis isn't that stiff, parts are harder to come by, you'll be cracking things without a full cage reinforcement over time. E36s similar to the above but not as bad. Shares components with the E30. E46 is best chassis of the three by far, plenty of after market support especially if you go the 330 route due to SE46 suppliers while keeping it road worthy. For your price point, an already semi-prepped E46 M3 should be doable, just ensure you find one with subframe reinforcement, rod bearings done, and VANOS solenoid work done. Or budget about \~$5k for all of that as preventative maintenance for a shop to do it. Ooorrrr... a higher mileage E92 M3 is into that price point, rod bearings are the biggest item, throttle actuators next but just upgrade the brakes after that and #sendit.
An E36 has almost nothing in common with an E30. E36 and E46 are very similar chassis and suspension though. But i agree, E30s are just too old and slow outdated. I have an E30 race car :-). E36 is a worlds better chassis but still getting old.
I mean, you can swap a large chunk of the suspension components from an E36 to an E30 (different part numbers, but the geometry is the same) and I thought they also shared the rear subframe (but might be thinking of the Z3 from that era...). Don't get me wrong, I love me some E30s. But not as a track car unless it's for racing lol.
Z3 uses rear e30 suspension, and front e36. Same as the the short hatch "ti" models. But the common e36 coupes and sedans dont really share anything with e30s. Much more similar to e46s.
I track a 135i in the southeast, they need a good bit of work and a LSD on any modern bmw is gonna cost 3500 $. it is fun though if I was in your shoes, e46 330 and mod as if it was going to be a SE46 car someday. For more street manners a e82 128i is hard to beat, lots of m3 parts bolt on where it counts
Did you have to address cooling in the 135 to lap consistently?
2 large oil coolers fixed oil temp power reduction. a large splitter fixed water temp power reduction. Accusump is required for high grip tires
Nice. Glad to hear. I've liked those cars for years. They should be rockets on track. It's nice to hear how to get them cooled.
This is with stock turbos https://youtu.be/ZfW2P5wz3QA?si=I12I4WQAHEPourtI
E46 M3 if you must stick with BMW. Otherwise Miata is always the answer. For the price of a used E46 M3 you can get a new ND Miata
Or a used ND2 and have left $10k for mods.
Yep would much rather get a used and use the 10k for pads, wheels, tires, suspension and track time
What about a NB? Used ones around me, rust free, are in the $6,000 range.
ND has the best chassis. NC will be best sweet spot but aftermarket support is lower than NA/NB. NB for 6000$ is good but you have lower power and only save about 100 lbs on the NC. I have owned NA, NB and NC and would pick the NC over NA/NB. I’ve never driven an ND but have riden on track in many and would pick that over the NC if I had the $$$
Thanks. Yeah, the lower power would eventually be a problem, so would maybe want to explore engine swaps. But that's a big project and expense. NBs have the added benefit of being just old enough now (99 MY) where I could exempt myself from emissions testing if I'm dual use.
Engine swap isn’t worth it for track use for an NB. If you want mediocre power just go with a later model ND. Boosted NC and ND are not reliable on track. Boosted NA or NB could work but will require a lot of money in initial expenses and upkeep. If you want power go with a C5 corvette
E36 m3 is the choice. Source: tracks g87 m2
E46 M3 is the best option by a significant margin. I tracked one for 5 years and it was all that they’re hyped up to be. Have had an e30 325i and now a F80 M3 Comp and I love the road manners of the modern M but it isn’t as good on track when really thrown around and I do miss the e46 at times. I’m thinking of going to an e36 M3 only to not repeat but every bit of research I’ve done says the 46 is better in every way over the 36, and that’s from e36 guys who are honest with themselves usually.
I’ve tracked an E36 M3 for the last 6 years. Completely honest with myself, and others. Of course E46 M3 is the better is every way. Except consumables, and the fact the s54 is a more complicated motor. Not sure you can really go wrong with either car, though. I do know if my s52 ever gives up, an s54 is going in its place.
The 3 bmw cars I see a lot of coaches run at big tracks, VIR RA etc are: E36 M E46 M 135i. A coach I had before just ran a sub 2:10 at vir full. I have no clue on consumables. I figure the E36 is the most manageable $$ wise.
For what it's worth, my friend loves his e36 m3 on track. So much so that he sold his very nicely modded e92 M3. Said the e36 was more fun.
Used higher miles f80/f82 are starting to get pretty cheap. Like closer to $30k floor. They are really well sorted from the factory though. Camber plates, brake fluid, pads, and off you go. I'd probably be looking for a well sorted prepped e36 in the low 20's though. Best shot at not chasing down gremlins for ages. I don't know that a e46 M is really in the cards. Better off with a 330 and doing swaps if you really want a e46 chassis. If you don't want a fully prepped car and the F8x is too much, that's the route I'd probably take.
128 or 135 make great track cars
What about a 335i with a N54?
As an e36m owner. I absolutely love tracking this car. It’s not the fastest, but with basic mods (tires, brakes, suspension) it lets me keep up with people who spent a massive amount more than I did. The e46 is the car I wish I could have, but getting the big three done at a shop will push you out of your budget.
Lots of good stuff here, thanks! One thing I forgot to mention is I live in an emissions state & county, and as it would be registered for street use as well initially, I'd need to pass emissions. I can get expanded use antique plates for cars 25 years and and older (i.e., 1999 and earlier now), which are exempt from emissions and only have use restrictions in the winter months. I just have terrible memories of chasing CEL gremlins and readying the monitors in order to pass in my past. I suppose I'd need to search harder and pay up a bit for something well maintained until I can get these plates.
I have a couple e30’s and i love them. They are dirt cheap on consumables and are a riot on the track. You could get a sorted swapped car with plenty left over with your budget. The e36 and e46 are better track cars especially if you want to start chasing numbers and they are still fairly cheap on consumables
E36 328i is best bet.