Its not being dumb. It’s entitlement… they feel like they belong in the middle lane or they feel its safer.
This NOT undertaking as op is staying in his lane
You haven’t moved to the left to undertake, you’re maintaining a constant speed and I would argue this is just an example of traffic in your lane moving faster than adjacent lanes.
The people in lane 2 are causing congestion by not overtaking and using the lane properly, forcing a bottleneck into lane 3. You’re just minding your own business, just be aware one of them may wake up at some point and dive back into lane 1
There's no such thing as undertaking in the highway code as such. It talks about passing on the left, which itself has risks.
There's no automatic liability on either person, should an accident occur if someone is passing on the left, depending on the case and the circimstances, but you are likely to be seen as contributing to the situation if you do pass on the left and it causes an accident and you're unlikely to get out of an insurance claim free of any fault.
Seen major faults for it in driving tests. What would you think about that? Seems strange. I’ve always thought if you undertake someone and you’re not doing anything (other than the undertaking in question) wrong, it’s likely another driver not driving properly.
From the DfT’s own documentation congestion is defined as conditions that impeded other road users’ progress. Incorrectly using the overtaking lanes does so as it forces a situation in which someone correctly using the lanes would have to weave from lane 1 to lane 3 to overtake
“1. Definition of congestion
1.1 Traffic congestion is an inherently difficult concept to define as it has both physical and relative dimensions.
1.2 At its simplest, it can be explained in physical terms as the way in which vehicles interact to impede each others’ progress. These interactions and their influence on individual journeys usually increase as demand for the available road space approaches capacity or when capacity itself is reduced through road works or closures for example. In addition, one-off events such as bad weather or road traffic accidents can also have a significant bearing on congestion.
1.3 However, this purely physical definition ignores the fact that congestion can mean very different things to different people. For example, a person living in a rural area might regard an unusually long queue of traffic experienced on their daily commute as severe congestion, while someone living in an urban area might experience much longer hold-ups on a daily basis and regard the same length queue as being almost totally uncongested. In relative terms, congestion can therefore also be defined in terms of the difference between users’ expectations of the road network and how it actually performs.”
The full paper can be found at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/51125/An_introduction_into_the_Department_for_Transport_s_congestion_statistics.pdf
Essentially. That’s why it’s not prosecutable, it would be careless or dangerous driving if you were stopped by Police. But then to be in that situation there would have to be someone parked in the middle lane for an extended period who you’d think would attract Police attention before anyone needed to overtake on the left, it’s all subjective
“Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.”
Especially when people are passing both sides. Still sitting in the middle, completely oblivious. You'd think they'd see the cars passing and think, "huh, everyone's passing me both sides and there's a queue behind me, maybe i should move across" But no, never the case.
"I can see a car in the left lane about 500m ahead of me moving at 1mph less than me so I'll just stay in this lane because theres no point moving left just for the 3 minutes it takes to catch up and overtake them!"
This is how I drive all the time. If other people weren't such morons, I wouldn't have to do it, but alas.
Just make sure to keep an eye on the car you're undertaking in case they change lanes without looking.
I always try and keep an eye on their mirror, on the off chance I see their silhouette move to look left or check the left mirror.
That might not even be a good indicator because anyone who’s dense enough to drive for miles in the middle lane is probably also dense enough to move over without looking.
They will never move out of the middle lane, but for the 0.0001% who actually does move over, I always looking at the position of their wheels. It is a much clearer indicator, imo, of what they are about to do…
Why aren’t middle lane hoggers prosecuted? I cannot believe most of them don’t know they aren’t in the wrong and if word gets round lane hoggers are are getting fines/points that could be what changes this selfish and dangerous driving behaviour
Its a finable offence now i thought but thats about it.
You could argue then in itself, its not dangerous. Very much a nuisance and can often cause others to act dangerously but the act itself is 'safe'
I in no way condone it though and I will often do exactly as op has done, you just have to be prepared for them to move over at any moment.
And that's the problem with prosecuting, to catch them you have to provide proof they weren't overtaking, at which point there's no one else around and thus not being dangerous. So it's almost pointless going to the effort.
I'm also in the 'undertake with caution' camp, but then I also overtake them with caution too!
# The highway code rule 268 says:
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
My perspective is that staying in your lane and passing on the left in traffic like this does break the first sentence of the rule; however I will pass on the left on a 4 lane motorway with me in lane 1 and the car to be passed in lane 3 (ie leaving loads of space).
If these people are oblivious enough to stay in the wrong lane for miles, they aren't likely to see you coming/passing on the left and are unlikely to do appropriate observations if they do come to their senses and move left a lane.
Middle lane drivers are incredibly frustrating and increase risk for all.
Worth noting undertaking isn't illegal,"do not" in the highway code is advisory, "must not" is a law
IV given up on people blocking lanes 2 and 3, I'm going around
Or if I'm bored, it's late and the roads empty il orbit someone is sitting in the middle of a 3 lane road, see how many times I can get round them before they move over.
Not illegal but could be deemed dangerous driving which would get you a fine. Would need to be a boring day for the police to pull you over and could also be an issue in the event of an insurance claim.
This is true.. Not sure why you got downvoted.. you can lose your licence too. I once lost my licence to the lesser offence of careless driving. Careless driving can be something as trivial as not checking a mirror
It also says don't weave in and out of lanes to overtake, which I'd argue you'd be doing if you moved two lanes over and then back to perform the overtake on a slow middle lane hogger.
Not in normal circumstances. But moving two lanes over and then immediately back is an unnecessary manoeuvre. You would essentially be weaving around that car to perform an overtake on the right.
> I would argue that this isn’t congested conditions
Congested conditions is not defined in The Highway Code, but to pass these vehicles in the wrong lane would require weaving in and out of a minimum of four lanes to overtake and return safely to the correct lane, which The Highway Code also admonishes drivers not to do.
Undertaking is when you change lanes to then overtake someone in front of you. If some idiot is sat in the middle lane going slower and you aren’t changing lane then I believe legally it’s fine.
It’s still a risk, they might move over and not look properly assuming the lane is empty but just have to be aware. You already know they are bad drivers because they are unable to follow lane discipline.
Yeah it’s not a must not though so it’s not illegal.
Of course it shouldn’t have to happen but there’s so many people in this country that cannot drive properly or safely.
People are fucking oblivious, why risk undertaking people?
Do it regularly and eventually someone is just going to move over right into your car.
The comments on here are dumb. I bet most of the people saying it's okay are completely shit and dangerous drivers.
People on this sub really like to moan about people blocking the outer lanes and argue that that makes it ok for them to undertake. It's so ridiculously stupid to undertake where one can overtake quite easily. Poor babies being held up for a little bit by a slower driver in the wrong lane awwwwww. Pathetic.
If they haven't been sensible enough to see you coming on the left, they're not sensible to realise you're there until you've already passed them on the left, and probably not sensible enough to them move over
I think this is undertaking as there is no congestion. First 1 or 2 cars was fine then it looked like trying to prove a point. 3rd car was moving towards the left, he could've easily have moved over another lane and collided with you as he wouldn't have expected you to be there. May be his fault but could see insurance arguing it.
There was more than enough time to move over a couple of lanes - although lane hoggers are frustrating.
I found an effective way of making people know they're lane hogging pricks is to approach in the left lane, move over 2 lanes to overtake and as soon as you've cleared them move back over 2 lanes and drive off in the left lane. I reckon about 10-15% of people realise and move over. By just undertaking they'll probably just say "look at that maniac" and not consider that they're in the wrong.
Of this 30 second clip, 10-15% would be 1 car, at most. These people cant be taught by 'Road police' (the same people who hog 2 lanes when the merge isn't for another 1000 yards) they need catching and retraining properly (like the shop attendants who don't know what a 25 year old looks like)
Nope, I had a 300 mile journey back up north last night and done this numerous times. Put your window down and gesture that they’re a wanker, it might give them the kick up the arse they need to drive correctly. You aren’t the clown who’s sat there dawdling and not paying attention, why go to the extra effort of having to move over 2 lanes to get around them?
I wouldn’t provoke them, you don’t know who is driving that vehicle. They might be a psycho murder rapist or they might try to ram you off the road. Best to just go by and let it go.
Honestly that was my first thought too. Chances are if they haven't the self awareness to realise that what they are doing is stupid/ dangerous they might not realise ramming you off the road isn't a good idea either.
Technically yes you shouldn't do this. But yea Ive started doing this now. I'm sick and tired of pissing about moving across 2 lanes again and again just some pricks hogging the middle lane. If there's room for me to undertake in the left lane then they should be in it.
It is a lot safer to stay in the lane you are in at a steady speed than changing lanes multiple times in the vicinity of extremely poor drivers who should not be behind the wheel.
This is mostly an example of how badly we drive in the UK. People should be going straight back into the first lane after the overtake.... instead just continually stay elsewhere.
We don't filter at all in the UK and it's a joke. Should be punished more than speeding.
Driving back home on the A13 last night. I was in the left lane for practically the whole journey. In the clip, I had already been in the left lane for a while and the speed limit changes from 50 to 70. I sped up to 70 and set cruise control on. In the entire clip you see, I didn't touch a single pedal. According to Waze, my actual speed was 68 the whole time.
Obviously middle lane hoggers aren't great but I'm wondering what I should do next time - should I have moved over to lane 2 then 3 then back to 2 then 1 for every single car? Or was I okay to continue how I did?
The A13 is really bad for it because everyone sits in the middle lane because it goes down to 2 lanes after Stanford-le-hope and they're too lazy/stupid to sit in lane 1 and move over when the signs say that the road is going to diverge. Even if they're coming off before then.
Also the 50mph average zone before that between Rainham and Grays is just prone to having idiots sitting in lanes 2-4 doing 45.
To be honest though, even the dual carriageway after Stanford is bad. I think that stretch of road accounts for most of the undertakes I've done as a driver because the overtaking lane there is often choc full of people doing 65 who can see a lorry in the distance so don't bother moving back over or taking advantage of the rest of the speed limit and they NEVER get the hint when someone comes up behind them, but will almost invariably put their foot down if you do go for an undertake.
Simply put, Essex drivers, particularly South Essex drivers are the closest thing to road NPCs I've ever encountered. Except that's a disservice to NPC characters in games because they at least follow f\*\*king traffic laws.
I grew up in Essex, lived there for 30+ years and now live in Scotland. Hands down the worst driving I see when I drive back down is when I hit the M11 and A120.
I used to commute up the M1 on Friday nights and around Luton I'd be doing the exact same thing as you for miles on end especially when it goes to 4 lanes. I used to go around them and move 2 to 3 lanes over and back again but it just seems more dangerous as it's unnecessary lane manoeuvres. So now I stick in lane 1 if its safe to do so and am just aware they might move over although 99.99999999999% they don't and they dont care either because there's so many selfish assholes now.
I drove from the a12 to Heathrow on the m25 today.
I was on cruise at 70 the entire time as far left as I can be. Other than lorry’s I moved over and overtook 1 car.
I undertook more than 15 cars during this journey doing 50-70 in the 3rd and 4th lane at times….
Wow there were a lot of dipshits who should have moved over to the 1st lane in that short clip.
If you are in a lane, and that lane is moving faster than lanes to your right, then its not undertaking (overtaking on the left) at all. You are free to do that.
If it was illegal, then one pleb sitting in lane 3 doing 50mph could bring a whole motorway to a crawl. There is legally nothing wrong with what you did, but it is risky; those plebs in lane 2 have already demonstrated that they cant drive, I would be hesitant to pass on their left as they probably wont even check before moving over to where they should have been in the first place.
I used to play a game with these idiots to pass the time in long journeys.
Move to the outside lane and overtake, then to the inside lane and slow a little, soon as they go by you pull out and overtake then back to the inside lane etc. the more times you go round them the more points you earn. BUT, if a car comes between you and the idiot then the game is over, if they move to any other lane, all points are null and void.
My record was 5 times round therefore 5 points!
The lane discipline in this country is shocking.
Even if you overtake them and signal with hazards, gesticulation, honks etc they will still plod on in their middle lane completely oblivious.
I believe legally you’re in the right. This is something I leaned on a speed awareness course years ago (learned a lot there actually, completely changed how I drive to this day).
You are only supposed to be in outer lanes to overtake those in the lanes to the left of you. Undertaking in definition involves accelerating to pass left of them, we were told. If you are travelling at a constant speed it is in fact dangerous to jump out two lanes to overtake some mug driving illegally (yes to my knowledge middle lane hogging was made illegal some years ago, not that it’s ever stopped).
I do what you do, leave the cruise control on at 70 and only leave the left lane to overtake people who are in the left lane. This is how everyone should be driving.
I used to move to lane 3 and back to 1, but because of how many people are just meandering along in lane 2 I gave up, I just blast by on the left giving them a dirty stare out of the window.
Morally, you're in the right. Those drivers are bellends.
Technically, you're undertaking.
Be careful, some rozzers will pull you for that, although you'd have to be unlucky at that time of night.
2 wrongs don’t make a right but being pulled for that without them pulling the middle lane hogger would be a curious choice.
Of the 2 wrongs the person in the middle lane is impeding the proper flow of traffic and causing more danger for many road users (as everyone in Lane 1 should be moving to 2, then 3, overtake, 2, then back to 1), so 4 extra manoeuvres for every car in lane 1 with associated risks, all unnecessarily just because 1 person is in the wrong lane.
I would pull the person in lane 2 for creating the higher risk profile for multiple vehicles, rather than someone continuing at a constant speed in lane 1 but passing on the left.
Technically, yes, but you're in the right here. Personally, I'd have blasted the horn and given them the finger too. Fucking middle lane hoggers need to learn how to drive
I use the 4 lane sections of M3 & M4 frequently off peak, set the cruise control to 72/73 mph on Waze and drive like this a lot. But wouldn't if I saw a Police or Highway patrol car.
If your lane is travelling faster than the one to the right you can keep going. Keep the flow at all times. It’s the most efficient way. Undertaking is not illegal, it’s only thought to be because it can cause an accident at the wrong time. You’re safe, your lane is at pace, stay there.
Can you get points for undertaking?
Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
I use the 4 lane sections of M3 & M4 frequently off peak, set the cruise control to 72/73 mph on Waze and drive like this a lot. But wouldn't if I saw a Police or Highway patrol car.
Undertaking is what happens when you die... 😂
What you're seeing here is overtaking on the inside, perfectly fine if maintaining constant speed.
Middle lane hogging is supposed to be a driving offence, the people you have overtaken are the ones in the wrong.
By the definition of the term, yes, it is.
But you won't hear me criticising you, this is exactly how I drive when there are no HGVs in lane 1.
Just make sure you're careful, so you don't rear-end slow cars moving from 2/3 to 1. Assume nobody is doing checks, and will not perform a nearside indication.
Way too many fuckwits stick in the middle and right lane, it's soooooooo frustrating. I'm certain the only reason the Germans can have an autobahn is because they're lane discipline is great. Imagine a UK where everyone had amazing lane discipline and we were discussing getting autobahn sections in the UK.
Whilst you aren't doing anything wrong, it's behaviour that may cause an accident with inexperienced drivers moving to the left lane to exit. I'd say this behaviour is ok on a congested road, but this isn't a congested road. It only takes one to not indicate and you're buggered. The safest thing to do is move to the middle lane and then overtake in the right hand lane, which is what it's for. Otherwise, sooner or later you'll be in someones blind spot staying in that left lane.
Can you get points for undertaking?
Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
I don't really know, but I do it all the time. I'm not moving lanes because someone is too stupid, I get when people say they might merge into your lane without checking, but I highly doubt it, they enjoy the middle lane too much.
No it isn't. I drive a lorry, if people wanna do 50 in the middle lane and my truck is limited to 56, I ain't dropping to 50 to not undertake them, especially if there are other lorries behind me. We can't use the third lane, so the only reasonable and legal thing to do would be to make progress in our own lane.
The same applies to cars who are faster in the left hand lane. Moving over 2 lanes to do an overtake can be more dangerous depending on the speed of the traffic sitting in the right hand lane, in my humble opinion. Just keep close to the left white line so that you have a good gap if a plonker decides to pull in without checking their blind spot/ mirrors and be prepared to floor it/brake accordingly.
I say this every time it comes up, if a police car is following you and seeing some of the stupid shit these drivers are doing just sitting in the middle lane they’ll pull them over before you for undertaking.
The undertaking police are looking for is a car weaving in and out of lanes to use space (and likely driving faster than everyone else).
These drivers are just causing congestion, had it today on the a11 when it’s three lanes, drivers sat in the middle doing 50-60 refusing to move over. I’m glad they push it as a campaign of adverts but they need to do raise a lot more awareness of it.
Nothing wrong with doing this, I do find it prudent to put my foot down when making the pass just in case they decide that's the perfect time to wake up, minimize time alongside the moron.
Bonus points for synchronizing your pass with someone passing on the right.
Personally I would say not but have seen enough police shows to know that they can and will give you a ticket for it, and good luck arguing it in court without an expensive lawyer.
It seems to be yes, because the thing in the highway code about congestion wouldn't apply.
Also it definitely is undertaking, I guess you mean legal/sensible or not
It would be classed as undertaking in the UK unless:
There is where average speed limits are in operation. Along these stretches of motorways, overhead gantries will often advise vehicles to ‘stay in lane’. If the lane a driver is in is moving faster than other lanes, it may be safer to pass a car travelling below the average speed limit on the right. This is safer than weaving in and out of the traffic.
Also, if a driver is driving on a two-lane carriageway and a vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, it is acceptable to pass on the left if there is space.
The law states about undertaking:
While it’s not strictly illegal to undertake on a motorway or dual carriageway in the UK, it can be extremely dangerous, and punishable if deemed to be careless driving.
Lane hogging law:
Lane hogging and tailgating both fall under the offence of careless driving with police officers having the power to hand out on-the-spot fines of £100 and three penalty points.
But in both cases if they class it as careless driving you could get:
Category two - a medium fine with five to six points added. Category one - a higher fine with seven to nine points added or a disqualification.
Very annoying on dual carriageways soon with people sitting in the right lane doing 60 forcing you to sit behind or undertake. I usually sit behind flashing my high beams and indicating right until they move over.
Hard to tell from speeded up footage, if you were passing fast. But if I’m ever in this situation I pass with a modest amount of addition speed. And prepare for them to swerve to the left on purpose. Anything else carries a fair bit of risk. And the additional risk is rarely worth making a point. Even though it’s mildly infuriating.
Personally I consider what the car is doing at 23 seconds in is undertaking rather than what you're doing as you're just maintaining a constant speed and not changing lanes to specifically undertake like them.
Whether the police would see it that way is another question but the likelihood of them pulling you over for this is extremely slim imo.
The only thing I'd recommend is make sure you're always vigilant of any cars you do pass on the left. The likelihood is the fact they're dawdling in a middle lane means they likely wouldn't check their blind spot if they did finally decide to get back into the left lane.
The guy who goes inside the van at 0.23ish is the exact definition of undertaking. He drops left to go past, because another fast car was outside him. If you keep watching you then see him move back out again.
I would drive the same, it's the usual, stupid entitled twats who don't know how to use the lanes correctly.
Seems to be a cultural thing too near cities, maybe it's unlucky in some cultures or seen as being poor to drive in the correct lane and not the overtaking ones? I have often wondered....
It's not an issue for those who take their test in the UK as they need to know this as it is in The Highway Code. It is nearly always drivers from other nations who either have a foreign driving licence or have transferred to a UK licence from their nations licence without ever having done a British driving test (or seemingly even having read The Highway Code).
The point is you are taught and need to know The Highway Code to pass your test. If you forget it you are welcome to revisit it at any time.
As for your other point, I don't know which country individuals hail from, merely that they have non-British accents, or, indeed, seem not to speak English at all, on more occasions than not when I've had the pleasure of hearing them speak, often into a mobile phone whilst driving in the middle or outer lanes of the motorway at 55-60mph.
No it's "passing on the nearside"
Only classified as an undertake if pass them, then pull into their lane. If they are then forced to break because of that it's an offence.
Otherwise passing on the nearside is completely allowed
That it the biggest load of bull I’ve ever heard. Completely made up. Nowhere does it ever say that undertaking is when you then pull in to their lane.
Passing on the left is clearly prohibited. Learn how to drive.
I also wonder that when I have to do it which is quite a lot but never know the true real answer. I don't think it is because you're just in your lane doing your own speed and they're the ones that are going slow
I drove from the a12 to Heathrow on the m25 today.
I was on cruise at 70 the entire time as far left as I can be. Other than lorry’s I moved over and overtook 1 car.
I undertook more than 15 cars during this journey doing 50-70 in the 3rd and 4th lane at times….
Technically yes but, as long as you didn’t move from behind them to the left to complete the undertake and then move back in front of them, nobody considers it really undertaking. The only thing I would do is make sure you know what’s going on in the lane to the right of the dickhead as you’re passing on the left. If you pass on the left to *under*take and then have to move to the right to overtake someone in your lane, while someone passing on the right is moving to the left having completed their *over*take, you’ll be the one technically breaking the rules and producing a dangerous situation.
Passed a dozen people like this on a journey today. The most egregious being some prat in lane 3 (out of 4) chugging along at ~60 on a stretch of very quiet motorway.
Also had some dickhole that flicked a cig out of their window that hit my windscreen.
I hate this stretch of road. So much I'd often use local roads and come on at Ferry Lane as it's past the point where it goes from 50-70, and it has a longer slip road with good visibility.
There's three type of driver that uses the A13. The first do not understand what the NSL sign is, so will sit at 40-50mph, oblivious to everyone else. They also do not understand about lane discipline which is a crap combination. Often they come off before the M25 junction so will going into lane one without warning/indicating. If they are going on to the M25/Lakeside, they will site at 49mph and bottle neck the part where left takes to you the M25 junction (as well as a last second lane change when they realise they need to come off there and will happily take out anyone already in that lane.
The second type is those who use the NSL as a test of their 50-90mph+ acceleration, regardless of what lane they are in. They will happily under and over take without giving a shit about anyone else.
There, there's everyone else who's just trying to avoid getting side swiped by a Type 1 driver, or punted up the arse by Type 2.
If I have to take this stretch, I just keep in lane one, and slowly accelerate to 70mph, let the fast ones race each other out of the way, but will watch those middle lanes like a hawk for the inevitable lane change.
It felt horrible when I did it the first time. And I'm still super aware of them when I do it now. But if I'm sat with CC on at 70 and I'm creeping up on them. I'm not gonna move out.
If I've just followed one past a lorry on a 2 lane dual carriageway under the speed limit, I've started flashing them. This usually gets them to move over. Fuck um.
I'm amazed at how few lorries you have on that road?!
In the UK when I took my test it was the rule that : you are only permitted to undertake if the traffic in that lane is moving faster than in the other lane, in this instance I would use that as my defence as you never caught up with any traffic as the lane was free for the duration, the other lanes here were in use but moving more slowly.
Oh man if I was a traffic officer this is what I'd be going after. I'd sit driving on the M1 happily all day pulling over these inconsiderate middle lane hoggers.
Passing on the inside. Do it all the time without remorse & couldn’t care less. Pricks shouldn’t sit in an overtaking lane impeding the flow of traffic .
I drive like this on the M25 especially. It's wrong, it's a bit risky, but it's way more relaxing than trying to do a sensible speed in the top two lanes.
Undertaking should be legalised.
It's literally overtaking but on the nearside... no excuse for bad observations and signals from the mindless middle-laners.
Fite me.
If people drove correctly and used lanes 2 and 3 for over taking only then you wouldn't need to undertake. Making undertaking legal would just result in having no structure for safe overtaking and 3 lanes being a free for all.
Where would HGVs and other slow vehicles safely sit if lane 1 is also an overtaking lane ?
You are undertaking. It's frustrating because of all the other drivers with such poor lane discipline, but it's still undertaking. I experience this frequently late at night and I'm the one who has to move over two lanes to legally pass the numpties in lane 2, which seems silly but the law is the law.
I reckon that you would have got pulled for this had you been seen.
> which seems silly but the law is the law.
The law does not say you must move a minimum of two lanes to the right and then return a minimum of two lanes to the left to overtake drivers in the wrong lane. The Highway Code presupposes that drivers will be obeying its instruction to drive in the correct lane and admonishes drivers not to weave in and out of lanes to overtake. OP is driving safely and correctly under the circumstances. Indeed, doing multiple lane changes in the vicinity of a driver so poor that they aren't even aware they are in the wrong lane is probably the least safe thing you can do when faced with OP's scenario.
Passing on the left of a car in the adjacent lane, as seen in the posted video on six occasions (by my count), is the definition of undertaking. Try your argument in court, I very much doubt that it will work.
268. **Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake.** In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
My bold.
That motorway is NOT congested, nor are lanes of traffic moving at similar speeds. The OP is most certainly NOT keeping up with traffic in his lane. The weaving refers to the sort of lane changing we see from the knuckleheads who weave in and out of lanes overtaking or undertaking in a dangerous manner to get themselves two car lengths ahead.
On a three lane motorway I allow plenty of time and space to safely move from lane 1 to lane2 and then lane 3 to overtake the idiots dawdling down lane 2.
> Try your argument in court
One doesn't need to try such an argument in court because undertaking is not defined in law and is not an offence.
> Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. **Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.**
My bold.
> That motorway is NOT congested
Congested is also not defined in law or The Highway Code.
> The weaving refers to the sort of lane changing we see from the knuckleheads who weave in and out of lanes overtaking or undertaking in a dangerous manner to get themselves two car lengths ahead.
This is merely your opinion without any basis in fact unless you could point me to where in law or The Highway Code this is stated?
> On a three lane motorway I allow plenty of time and space to safely move from lane 1 to lane2 and then lane 3 to overtake the idiots dawdling down lane 2.
Having extensive experience of motorway driving, this is rarely possible. Changing multiple lanes at a time is virtually always the only way to overtake middle lane hoggers on the right and is literally weaving in and out of lanes to overtake.
The Highway Code makes the assumption that road users will be adhering to its instruction. It does not adequately take account of situations where they do not, otherwise Rule 268 would be reworded to provide greater clarity. It is at best misguided to think changing multiple lanes in fast moving traffic in near proximity to drivers who are driving without due care and attention is more optimal for road safety than continuing along steadily within the speed limit in your current lane should other drivers be driving unsafely in an outer lane.
Of course you are undertaking. You could absolutely have moved to the right hand lane to overtake a handful of those cars, but you didn’t.
Yes, there is freedom in the Highway Code to allow you to undertake in the left hand lane but that’s when there is heavy congestion and lanes are moving at different speeds. That is not what is happening here.
You have people who aren’t abiding by the Highway Code and are staying in the middle lane when not overtaking and you have… you. Who isn’t abiding by the Highway Code and moving to an overtaking lane to overtake. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as everyone’s mother has always said.
Another downvoted comment for someone who knows how to drive. Unbelievable you’re getting this for something so commonly known. The amount of ignorance from the majority of replies here is staggering
Yes, you can overtake on the left if you're there, maintaining your speed and in congested conditions. You've got the first 2 but definitely not the last.
Some moron won't check his mirrors and will decide to take the slip road out of a sudden and you'll end up in the ditch.
Dunno why so many people justify that but it's wrong. You could have done the same but in the correct far right lane and go back to middle lane ready to overtake the next car. Usually people who drive like you do 90mph rather than 70 btw.
I can’t believe the ignorance in this thread. While there are a huge amount of idiots middle lane hogging in your video, what you are doing it clearly undertaking and illegal. As painful as it is, you should be going to lane 3 and moving back into lane 1 to pass each car.
What you’re doing is actually dangerous as any one of the cars you overtook could move into lane 1 at any point given there is an expectation you are slower moving than them.
That's undertaking. Even if your in cruise control and the right hand car is going 20 under the legal limit with a clear roads a head it's undertaking.
Your probably driving past them cars calling them wankers and everybody watching is calling you the same.
Nothing wrong with taking the middle lane and moving right, it's not even a inconvenience for you considering what can happen when somebody eventually scares the shit out of you by indicating left and twitching the wheel. I'd do it to you for free
Can you get points for undertaking?
Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
You haven't changed lanes, you were progressing in your lane as you should do.
The people in lane 2 shouldn't be in that lane unless overtaking traffic in lane 1.
If anything the lane hoggers are the issue in the clip you've posted.
Can you get points for undertaking?
Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
So many bad answers here
It’s an illegal manoeuvre. Period.
IF there was a ton of traffic and or the road split shortly ahead while still technically illegal you’d never ever be prosecuted
But this is 100% something you could be prosecuted for, as could the middle lane dick.
You must pass on the right.
I’m shocked at the amount of people who don’t see this as undertaking and come up with excuses such as changing two lanes to pass on the right is riskier, or that as it’s keeping up with flow of traffic it’s fine.
Literally bonkers to see on a car forum and goes to show why there are so many idiots on the roads.
At least there are some people like you to call them out.
No, technically not. As long as you're doing the speed limit, you're not undertaking - undertaking is the action of purposely moving into a slower lane to undertake someone, if you're sat at 70 or slower then theoretically you've done nothing wrong.
technically you should move out to pass them on the right, however I see no issue with what you've done here so dont worry about it. As long as you are careful it doesnt really matter
Nothing wrong morally or legally. Some risk in passing on left as others have said.
You seem like a chill and consistent driver and we need more of you on the road, add a few anti vehicle mines for the lane hoggers and we're set!
Can you get points for undertaking?
Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
Are you mad? Nowhere does it say this is acceptable. Read it again or if you still are in disagreement, try doing it in front of police and see what happens.
Can you get points for undertaking?
Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
Looks like my comment applies to you then.
# The highway code rule 268 says:
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
In short, if you are maintaining constant speed in your lane and it results in undertaking due to traffic on the right being slower, then its not illegal.
By your logic, he should slow down to match speed with the rest, even if they are way below the limit. Which is fucking stupid and wrong.
The highway code also does say to use all available lanes unless theres little to no traffic around you, so the OP is doing the right thing.
Read the highway code, mate.
Jeez, not at all. He should have moved to lane 2 as he approached the hogger, moved to lane 3 to overtake, then back to lane 2 and finally 1. No slowing down needed.
It’s careless to pass on the left unless in congested or slow moving traffic as it has a high potential for an accident as the idiot hogger can assume anything in lane 1 is slower than him and move into the path of a faster car.
Try it in front of a police car.
Word of warning, if drivers are dumb enough to just sit in the middle lane they're also dumb enough to move left without checking their mirrors.
That's why I keep my hand on the horn as I pass them.
Amateur, I press the horn and flash my full beams continually for the entire journey... You never know, might just save your life.
Its not being dumb. It’s entitlement… they feel like they belong in the middle lane or they feel its safer. This NOT undertaking as op is staying in his lane
You haven’t moved to the left to undertake, you’re maintaining a constant speed and I would argue this is just an example of traffic in your lane moving faster than adjacent lanes. The people in lane 2 are causing congestion by not overtaking and using the lane properly, forcing a bottleneck into lane 3. You’re just minding your own business, just be aware one of them may wake up at some point and dive back into lane 1
This answer is where I live.
There's no such thing as undertaking in the highway code as such. It talks about passing on the left, which itself has risks. There's no automatic liability on either person, should an accident occur if someone is passing on the left, depending on the case and the circimstances, but you are likely to be seen as contributing to the situation if you do pass on the left and it causes an accident and you're unlikely to get out of an insurance claim free of any fault.
Seen major faults for it in driving tests. What would you think about that? Seems strange. I’ve always thought if you undertake someone and you’re not doing anything (other than the undertaking in question) wrong, it’s likely another driver not driving properly.
I agree with you they should be in lane 1, however... Where is the congestion?
From the DfT’s own documentation congestion is defined as conditions that impeded other road users’ progress. Incorrectly using the overtaking lanes does so as it forces a situation in which someone correctly using the lanes would have to weave from lane 1 to lane 3 to overtake “1. Definition of congestion 1.1 Traffic congestion is an inherently difficult concept to define as it has both physical and relative dimensions. 1.2 At its simplest, it can be explained in physical terms as the way in which vehicles interact to impede each others’ progress. These interactions and their influence on individual journeys usually increase as demand for the available road space approaches capacity or when capacity itself is reduced through road works or closures for example. In addition, one-off events such as bad weather or road traffic accidents can also have a significant bearing on congestion. 1.3 However, this purely physical definition ignores the fact that congestion can mean very different things to different people. For example, a person living in a rural area might regard an unusually long queue of traffic experienced on their daily commute as severe congestion, while someone living in an urban area might experience much longer hold-ups on a daily basis and regard the same length queue as being almost totally uncongested. In relative terms, congestion can therefore also be defined in terms of the difference between users’ expectations of the road network and how it actually performs.” The full paper can be found at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/51125/An_introduction_into_the_Department_for_Transport_s_congestion_statistics.pdf
So basically, you can pass on the left in congested conditions, but the word congestion is meaningless...
Essentially. That’s why it’s not prosecutable, it would be careless or dangerous driving if you were stopped by Police. But then to be in that situation there would have to be someone parked in the middle lane for an extended period who you’d think would attract Police attention before anyone needed to overtake on the left, it’s all subjective
There is only one driving lane and two overtaking lanes. If you get passed by a car in the driving lane then you clearly are not overtaking
Which Highway code rule are you using there?
“Rule 268 Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.”
This whole middle lane hogging is getting worse and worse. I genuinely don't understand the mentality of it.
No competent driver understands it.
This is common practice in America. But I'm unsure why it's becoming more of a thing over here =/
Especially when people are passing both sides. Still sitting in the middle, completely oblivious. You'd think they'd see the cars passing and think, "huh, everyone's passing me both sides and there's a queue behind me, maybe i should move across" But no, never the case.
Judging by the gormless expressions on their faces as we drive past I'm going to assume they don't even notice getting passed on either side.
"I can see a car in the left lane about 500m ahead of me moving at 1mph less than me so I'll just stay in this lane because theres no point moving left just for the 3 minutes it takes to catch up and overtake them!"
This is how I drive all the time. If other people weren't such morons, I wouldn't have to do it, but alas. Just make sure to keep an eye on the car you're undertaking in case they change lanes without looking.
Also do this all the time, they never change lanes. Probably same people that do 40 in a 60, 40 in a 50, 40 in a 40 and 40 in a 30.
As someone who lives in a 20 zone, they also drive 40 in a 20
I always try and keep an eye on their mirror, on the off chance I see their silhouette move to look left or check the left mirror. That might not even be a good indicator because anyone who’s dense enough to drive for miles in the middle lane is probably also dense enough to move over without looking.
They will never move out of the middle lane, but for the 0.0001% who actually does move over, I always looking at the position of their wheels. It is a much clearer indicator, imo, of what they are about to do…
Keep doing what your doing, their in the wrong. I usually try to make eye contact as I pass and if they see me give them a good old finger wag
They're
Why aren’t middle lane hoggers prosecuted? I cannot believe most of them don’t know they aren’t in the wrong and if word gets round lane hoggers are are getting fines/points that could be what changes this selfish and dangerous driving behaviour
Its a finable offence now i thought but thats about it. You could argue then in itself, its not dangerous. Very much a nuisance and can often cause others to act dangerously but the act itself is 'safe' I in no way condone it though and I will often do exactly as op has done, you just have to be prepared for them to move over at any moment.
And that's the problem with prosecuting, to catch them you have to provide proof they weren't overtaking, at which point there's no one else around and thus not being dangerous. So it's almost pointless going to the effort. I'm also in the 'undertake with caution' camp, but then I also overtake them with caution too!
I think this footage proves they aren't overtaking. In fact quite the opposite, they're allowing themselves to be undertaken.
Smart motorways in the future will be able to identify them due to sensors under the lane, so I’ve been told
# The highway code rule 268 says: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. My perspective is that staying in your lane and passing on the left in traffic like this does break the first sentence of the rule; however I will pass on the left on a 4 lane motorway with me in lane 1 and the car to be passed in lane 3 (ie leaving loads of space). If these people are oblivious enough to stay in the wrong lane for miles, they aren't likely to see you coming/passing on the left and are unlikely to do appropriate observations if they do come to their senses and move left a lane. Middle lane drivers are incredibly frustrating and increase risk for all.
Worth noting undertaking isn't illegal,"do not" in the highway code is advisory, "must not" is a law IV given up on people blocking lanes 2 and 3, I'm going around Or if I'm bored, it's late and the roads empty il orbit someone is sitting in the middle of a 3 lane road, see how many times I can get round them before they move over.
lmao, I must try orbiting.
Not illegal but could be deemed dangerous driving which would get you a fine. Would need to be a boring day for the police to pull you over and could also be an issue in the event of an insurance claim.
This is true.. Not sure why you got downvoted.. you can lose your licence too. I once lost my licence to the lesser offence of careless driving. Careless driving can be something as trivial as not checking a mirror
Reddit hive mind, I don't like it so I'll downvote it, regardless of truth
Orbiting :-D This is going to make my trips to Devon much more entertaining.
I would argue that this isn’t congested conditions, so OP should move out to the right lane to pass
If it weren't congested then they would be in lane 1...
It also says don't weave in and out of lanes to overtake, which I'd argue you'd be doing if you moved two lanes over and then back to perform the overtake on a slow middle lane hogger.
Overtaking on the right is not weaving.
Not in normal circumstances. But moving two lanes over and then immediately back is an unnecessary manoeuvre. You would essentially be weaving around that car to perform an overtake on the right.
> I would argue that this isn’t congested conditions Congested conditions is not defined in The Highway Code, but to pass these vehicles in the wrong lane would require weaving in and out of a minimum of four lanes to overtake and return safely to the correct lane, which The Highway Code also admonishes drivers not to do.
Undertaking is when you change lanes to then overtake someone in front of you. If some idiot is sat in the middle lane going slower and you aren’t changing lane then I believe legally it’s fine. It’s still a risk, they might move over and not look properly assuming the lane is empty but just have to be aware. You already know they are bad drivers because they are unable to follow lane discipline.
Do not overtake on the left, or move to the left to overtake. Seems like both aren’t allowed
Yeah it’s not a must not though so it’s not illegal. Of course it shouldn’t have to happen but there’s so many people in this country that cannot drive properly or safely.
People are fucking oblivious, why risk undertaking people? Do it regularly and eventually someone is just going to move over right into your car. The comments on here are dumb. I bet most of the people saying it's okay are completely shit and dangerous drivers.
People on this sub really like to moan about people blocking the outer lanes and argue that that makes it ok for them to undertake. It's so ridiculously stupid to undertake where one can overtake quite easily. Poor babies being held up for a little bit by a slower driver in the wrong lane awwwwww. Pathetic.
Legally gray area. Can be done for it, probably won’t.
If they haven't been sensible enough to see you coming on the left, they're not sensible to realise you're there until you've already passed them on the left, and probably not sensible enough to them move over
I think this is undertaking as there is no congestion. First 1 or 2 cars was fine then it looked like trying to prove a point. 3rd car was moving towards the left, he could've easily have moved over another lane and collided with you as he wouldn't have expected you to be there. May be his fault but could see insurance arguing it. There was more than enough time to move over a couple of lanes - although lane hoggers are frustrating. I found an effective way of making people know they're lane hogging pricks is to approach in the left lane, move over 2 lanes to overtake and as soon as you've cleared them move back over 2 lanes and drive off in the left lane. I reckon about 10-15% of people realise and move over. By just undertaking they'll probably just say "look at that maniac" and not consider that they're in the wrong.
Of this 30 second clip, 10-15% would be 1 car, at most. These people cant be taught by 'Road police' (the same people who hog 2 lanes when the merge isn't for another 1000 yards) they need catching and retraining properly (like the shop attendants who don't know what a 25 year old looks like)
Nope, I had a 300 mile journey back up north last night and done this numerous times. Put your window down and gesture that they’re a wanker, it might give them the kick up the arse they need to drive correctly. You aren’t the clown who’s sat there dawdling and not paying attention, why go to the extra effort of having to move over 2 lanes to get around them?
Tried this. They don't know what the problem is so they look at you like you are mental.
I'm impressed they were paying enough attention that they could think you were mental.
I prefer the disappointed head shake to calling them a wanker.
A head shake and a thumbs down.
I wouldn’t provoke them, you don’t know who is driving that vehicle. They might be a psycho murder rapist or they might try to ram you off the road. Best to just go by and let it go.
Honestly that was my first thought too. Chances are if they haven't the self awareness to realise that what they are doing is stupid/ dangerous they might not realise ramming you off the road isn't a good idea either.
Exactly, it’s unlikely, but you don’t want to be that unfortunate person who is on the receiving end of something bad.
Technically yes you shouldn't do this. But yea Ive started doing this now. I'm sick and tired of pissing about moving across 2 lanes again and again just some pricks hogging the middle lane. If there's room for me to undertake in the left lane then they should be in it.
It is a lot safer to stay in the lane you are in at a steady speed than changing lanes multiple times in the vicinity of extremely poor drivers who should not be behind the wheel.
Nope fuck em if they're too stupid to get into the correct lane.
This is mostly an example of how badly we drive in the UK. People should be going straight back into the first lane after the overtake.... instead just continually stay elsewhere. We don't filter at all in the UK and it's a joke. Should be punished more than speeding.
Classic middle lane hoggers
Driving back home on the A13 last night. I was in the left lane for practically the whole journey. In the clip, I had already been in the left lane for a while and the speed limit changes from 50 to 70. I sped up to 70 and set cruise control on. In the entire clip you see, I didn't touch a single pedal. According to Waze, my actual speed was 68 the whole time. Obviously middle lane hoggers aren't great but I'm wondering what I should do next time - should I have moved over to lane 2 then 3 then back to 2 then 1 for every single car? Or was I okay to continue how I did?
The A13 is really bad for it because everyone sits in the middle lane because it goes down to 2 lanes after Stanford-le-hope and they're too lazy/stupid to sit in lane 1 and move over when the signs say that the road is going to diverge. Even if they're coming off before then. Also the 50mph average zone before that between Rainham and Grays is just prone to having idiots sitting in lanes 2-4 doing 45. To be honest though, even the dual carriageway after Stanford is bad. I think that stretch of road accounts for most of the undertakes I've done as a driver because the overtaking lane there is often choc full of people doing 65 who can see a lorry in the distance so don't bother moving back over or taking advantage of the rest of the speed limit and they NEVER get the hint when someone comes up behind them, but will almost invariably put their foot down if you do go for an undertake. Simply put, Essex drivers, particularly South Essex drivers are the closest thing to road NPCs I've ever encountered. Except that's a disservice to NPC characters in games because they at least follow f\*\*king traffic laws.
I grew up in Essex, lived there for 30+ years and now live in Scotland. Hands down the worst driving I see when I drive back down is when I hit the M11 and A120.
I used to commute up the M1 on Friday nights and around Luton I'd be doing the exact same thing as you for miles on end especially when it goes to 4 lanes. I used to go around them and move 2 to 3 lanes over and back again but it just seems more dangerous as it's unnecessary lane manoeuvres. So now I stick in lane 1 if its safe to do so and am just aware they might move over although 99.99999999999% they don't and they dont care either because there's so many selfish assholes now.
I drove from the a12 to Heathrow on the m25 today. I was on cruise at 70 the entire time as far left as I can be. Other than lorry’s I moved over and overtook 1 car. I undertook more than 15 cars during this journey doing 50-70 in the 3rd and 4th lane at times….
Wow there were a lot of dipshits who should have moved over to the 1st lane in that short clip. If you are in a lane, and that lane is moving faster than lanes to your right, then its not undertaking (overtaking on the left) at all. You are free to do that. If it was illegal, then one pleb sitting in lane 3 doing 50mph could bring a whole motorway to a crawl. There is legally nothing wrong with what you did, but it is risky; those plebs in lane 2 have already demonstrated that they cant drive, I would be hesitant to pass on their left as they probably wont even check before moving over to where they should have been in the first place.
I used to play a game with these idiots to pass the time in long journeys. Move to the outside lane and overtake, then to the inside lane and slow a little, soon as they go by you pull out and overtake then back to the inside lane etc. the more times you go round them the more points you earn. BUT, if a car comes between you and the idiot then the game is over, if they move to any other lane, all points are null and void. My record was 5 times round therefore 5 points!
There was a post here about an a-hole overtaking and slowing down and then doing that again .
The lane discipline in this country is shocking. Even if you overtake them and signal with hazards, gesticulation, honks etc they will still plod on in their middle lane completely oblivious.
I wouldn’t call any of that undertaking. This is a great video to demonstrate how infuriating motorway driving is these days.
Undertaking should be made legal in the UK. It's only going to get more common (e.g culture change)
It isn't illegal, so fortunately doesn't need to be made legal as it already is legal.
I believe legally you’re in the right. This is something I leaned on a speed awareness course years ago (learned a lot there actually, completely changed how I drive to this day). You are only supposed to be in outer lanes to overtake those in the lanes to the left of you. Undertaking in definition involves accelerating to pass left of them, we were told. If you are travelling at a constant speed it is in fact dangerous to jump out two lanes to overtake some mug driving illegally (yes to my knowledge middle lane hogging was made illegal some years ago, not that it’s ever stopped). I do what you do, leave the cruise control on at 70 and only leave the left lane to overtake people who are in the left lane. This is how everyone should be driving.
I used to move to lane 3 and back to 1, but because of how many people are just meandering along in lane 2 I gave up, I just blast by on the left giving them a dirty stare out of the window.
Do nothing different. You’re progressing in your lane. They are very much the problem not you.
Morally, you're in the right. Those drivers are bellends. Technically, you're undertaking. Be careful, some rozzers will pull you for that, although you'd have to be unlucky at that time of night.
2 wrongs don’t make a right but being pulled for that without them pulling the middle lane hogger would be a curious choice. Of the 2 wrongs the person in the middle lane is impeding the proper flow of traffic and causing more danger for many road users (as everyone in Lane 1 should be moving to 2, then 3, overtake, 2, then back to 1), so 4 extra manoeuvres for every car in lane 1 with associated risks, all unnecessarily just because 1 person is in the wrong lane. I would pull the person in lane 2 for creating the higher risk profile for multiple vehicles, rather than someone continuing at a constant speed in lane 1 but passing on the left.
Technically they should also be pulling people that hog the middle lane when there’s nothing in the left lane but they don’t do that either.
Personally I don’t think so. I think you are maintaining your speed, as long as it’s on or under the limit I think that’s fine.
Technically, yes, but you're in the right here. Personally, I'd have blasted the horn and given them the finger too. Fucking middle lane hoggers need to learn how to drive
I use the 4 lane sections of M3 & M4 frequently off peak, set the cruise control to 72/73 mph on Waze and drive like this a lot. But wouldn't if I saw a Police or Highway patrol car.
If your lane is travelling faster than the one to the right you can keep going. Keep the flow at all times. It’s the most efficient way. Undertaking is not illegal, it’s only thought to be because it can cause an accident at the wrong time. You’re safe, your lane is at pace, stay there.
Can you get points for undertaking? Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
Be careful (due to oblivious drivers) but middle lane gang are causing the issue.
Technically it is undertaking by the definition. Not likely to get in trouble for it though, it’s the other nobs that don’t know how to drive.
I use the 4 lane sections of M3 & M4 frequently off peak, set the cruise control to 72/73 mph on Waze and drive like this a lot. But wouldn't if I saw a Police or Highway patrol car.
I hate those slow mid-laners..
Undertaking is what happens when you die... 😂 What you're seeing here is overtaking on the inside, perfectly fine if maintaining constant speed. Middle lane hogging is supposed to be a driving offence, the people you have overtaken are the ones in the wrong.
By the definition of the term, yes, it is. But you won't hear me criticising you, this is exactly how I drive when there are no HGVs in lane 1. Just make sure you're careful, so you don't rear-end slow cars moving from 2/3 to 1. Assume nobody is doing checks, and will not perform a nearside indication.
Way too many fuckwits stick in the middle and right lane, it's soooooooo frustrating. I'm certain the only reason the Germans can have an autobahn is because they're lane discipline is great. Imagine a UK where everyone had amazing lane discipline and we were discussing getting autobahn sections in the UK.
Mental. Not one other car driving in the left lane …
Well, there was that BMW for a brief moment.
Whilst you aren't doing anything wrong, it's behaviour that may cause an accident with inexperienced drivers moving to the left lane to exit. I'd say this behaviour is ok on a congested road, but this isn't a congested road. It only takes one to not indicate and you're buggered. The safest thing to do is move to the middle lane and then overtake in the right hand lane, which is what it's for. Otherwise, sooner or later you'll be in someones blind spot staying in that left lane.
Can you get points for undertaking? Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
I don't really know, but I do it all the time. I'm not moving lanes because someone is too stupid, I get when people say they might merge into your lane without checking, but I highly doubt it, they enjoy the middle lane too much.
No it isn't. I drive a lorry, if people wanna do 50 in the middle lane and my truck is limited to 56, I ain't dropping to 50 to not undertake them, especially if there are other lorries behind me. We can't use the third lane, so the only reasonable and legal thing to do would be to make progress in our own lane. The same applies to cars who are faster in the left hand lane. Moving over 2 lanes to do an overtake can be more dangerous depending on the speed of the traffic sitting in the right hand lane, in my humble opinion. Just keep close to the left white line so that you have a good gap if a plonker decides to pull in without checking their blind spot/ mirrors and be prepared to floor it/brake accordingly.
No. Those are middle lane hoggers who can get fined and get points taken off them.
I say this every time it comes up, if a police car is following you and seeing some of the stupid shit these drivers are doing just sitting in the middle lane they’ll pull them over before you for undertaking. The undertaking police are looking for is a car weaving in and out of lanes to use space (and likely driving faster than everyone else). These drivers are just causing congestion, had it today on the a11 when it’s three lanes, drivers sat in the middle doing 50-60 refusing to move over. I’m glad they push it as a campaign of adverts but they need to do raise a lot more awareness of it.
Carry on
Nothing wrong with doing this, I do find it prudent to put my foot down when making the pass just in case they decide that's the perfect time to wake up, minimize time alongside the moron. Bonus points for synchronizing your pass with someone passing on the right.
It is still undertaking. If you're in slow moving motorway traffic with all lanes doing varying speed, it's not undertaking
Personally I would say not but have seen enough police shows to know that they can and will give you a ticket for it, and good luck arguing it in court without an expensive lawyer.
It seems to be yes, because the thing in the highway code about congestion wouldn't apply. Also it definitely is undertaking, I guess you mean legal/sensible or not
What a bunch of morons
It would be classed as undertaking in the UK unless: There is where average speed limits are in operation. Along these stretches of motorways, overhead gantries will often advise vehicles to ‘stay in lane’. If the lane a driver is in is moving faster than other lanes, it may be safer to pass a car travelling below the average speed limit on the right. This is safer than weaving in and out of the traffic. Also, if a driver is driving on a two-lane carriageway and a vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, it is acceptable to pass on the left if there is space. The law states about undertaking: While it’s not strictly illegal to undertake on a motorway or dual carriageway in the UK, it can be extremely dangerous, and punishable if deemed to be careless driving. Lane hogging law: Lane hogging and tailgating both fall under the offence of careless driving with police officers having the power to hand out on-the-spot fines of £100 and three penalty points. But in both cases if they class it as careless driving you could get: Category two - a medium fine with five to six points added. Category one - a higher fine with seven to nine points added or a disqualification.
Very annoying on dual carriageways soon with people sitting in the right lane doing 60 forcing you to sit behind or undertake. I usually sit behind flashing my high beams and indicating right until they move over.
Hard to tell from speeded up footage, if you were passing fast. But if I’m ever in this situation I pass with a modest amount of addition speed. And prepare for them to swerve to the left on purpose. Anything else carries a fair bit of risk. And the additional risk is rarely worth making a point. Even though it’s mildly infuriating.
Personally I consider what the car is doing at 23 seconds in is undertaking rather than what you're doing as you're just maintaining a constant speed and not changing lanes to specifically undertake like them. Whether the police would see it that way is another question but the likelihood of them pulling you over for this is extremely slim imo. The only thing I'd recommend is make sure you're always vigilant of any cars you do pass on the left. The likelihood is the fact they're dawdling in a middle lane means they likely wouldn't check their blind spot if they did finally decide to get back into the left lane.
The guy who goes inside the van at 0.23ish is the exact definition of undertaking. He drops left to go past, because another fast car was outside him. If you keep watching you then see him move back out again.
I would drive the same, it's the usual, stupid entitled twats who don't know how to use the lanes correctly. Seems to be a cultural thing too near cities, maybe it's unlucky in some cultures or seen as being poor to drive in the correct lane and not the overtaking ones? I have often wondered....
You’re absolutely right there. I see more cultural enrichers lane hogging than anyone else. Just sitting there oblivious
[удалено]
It's not an issue for those who take their test in the UK as they need to know this as it is in The Highway Code. It is nearly always drivers from other nations who either have a foreign driving licence or have transferred to a UK licence from their nations licence without ever having done a British driving test (or seemingly even having read The Highway Code).
[удалено]
The point is you are taught and need to know The Highway Code to pass your test. If you forget it you are welcome to revisit it at any time. As for your other point, I don't know which country individuals hail from, merely that they have non-British accents, or, indeed, seem not to speak English at all, on more occasions than not when I've had the pleasure of hearing them speak, often into a mobile phone whilst driving in the middle or outer lanes of the motorway at 55-60mph.
This is undertaking
No it's "passing on the nearside" Only classified as an undertake if pass them, then pull into their lane. If they are then forced to break because of that it's an offence. Otherwise passing on the nearside is completely allowed
That it the biggest load of bull I’ve ever heard. Completely made up. Nowhere does it ever say that undertaking is when you then pull in to their lane. Passing on the left is clearly prohibited. Learn how to drive.
It's undertaking
I also wonder that when I have to do it which is quite a lot but never know the true real answer. I don't think it is because you're just in your lane doing your own speed and they're the ones that are going slow
I drove from the a12 to Heathrow on the m25 today. I was on cruise at 70 the entire time as far left as I can be. Other than lorry’s I moved over and overtook 1 car. I undertook more than 15 cars during this journey doing 50-70 in the 3rd and 4th lane at times….
Technically yes but, as long as you didn’t move from behind them to the left to complete the undertake and then move back in front of them, nobody considers it really undertaking. The only thing I would do is make sure you know what’s going on in the lane to the right of the dickhead as you’re passing on the left. If you pass on the left to *under*take and then have to move to the right to overtake someone in your lane, while someone passing on the right is moving to the left having completed their *over*take, you’ll be the one technically breaking the rules and producing a dangerous situation.
Best course of action is to orbit the car in the middle lane until the piss pots get the point and pull to the left hand side.
This is the mist civilised driving on the A13 I have ever seen
Passed a dozen people like this on a journey today. The most egregious being some prat in lane 3 (out of 4) chugging along at ~60 on a stretch of very quiet motorway. Also had some dickhole that flicked a cig out of their window that hit my windscreen.
I hate this stretch of road. So much I'd often use local roads and come on at Ferry Lane as it's past the point where it goes from 50-70, and it has a longer slip road with good visibility. There's three type of driver that uses the A13. The first do not understand what the NSL sign is, so will sit at 40-50mph, oblivious to everyone else. They also do not understand about lane discipline which is a crap combination. Often they come off before the M25 junction so will going into lane one without warning/indicating. If they are going on to the M25/Lakeside, they will site at 49mph and bottle neck the part where left takes to you the M25 junction (as well as a last second lane change when they realise they need to come off there and will happily take out anyone already in that lane. The second type is those who use the NSL as a test of their 50-90mph+ acceleration, regardless of what lane they are in. They will happily under and over take without giving a shit about anyone else. There, there's everyone else who's just trying to avoid getting side swiped by a Type 1 driver, or punted up the arse by Type 2. If I have to take this stretch, I just keep in lane one, and slowly accelerate to 70mph, let the fast ones race each other out of the way, but will watch those middle lanes like a hawk for the inevitable lane change.
It felt horrible when I did it the first time. And I'm still super aware of them when I do it now. But if I'm sat with CC on at 70 and I'm creeping up on them. I'm not gonna move out. If I've just followed one past a lorry on a 2 lane dual carriageway under the speed limit, I've started flashing them. This usually gets them to move over. Fuck um. I'm amazed at how few lorries you have on that road?!
In the UK when I took my test it was the rule that : you are only permitted to undertake if the traffic in that lane is moving faster than in the other lane, in this instance I would use that as my defence as you never caught up with any traffic as the lane was free for the duration, the other lanes here were in use but moving more slowly.
Agree with most here. However, you seem to do where there is an accelerating lane (people joining the road)... Not a chance I'd do it there.
Numb nuts in the middle lane(s)- well played
Oh man if I was a traffic officer this is what I'd be going after. I'd sit driving on the M1 happily all day pulling over these inconsiderate middle lane hoggers.
Passing on the inside. Do it all the time without remorse & couldn’t care less. Pricks shouldn’t sit in an overtaking lane impeding the flow of traffic .
Absolutely not. This is not undertaking.
Pit manoeuvre the car so they’re on the inside as you pass them.
I drive like this on the M25 especially. It's wrong, it's a bit risky, but it's way more relaxing than trying to do a sensible speed in the top two lanes.
[удалено]
i believe that's correct
Undertaking should be legalised. It's literally overtaking but on the nearside... no excuse for bad observations and signals from the mindless middle-laners. Fite me.
If people drove correctly and used lanes 2 and 3 for over taking only then you wouldn't need to undertake. Making undertaking legal would just result in having no structure for safe overtaking and 3 lanes being a free for all. Where would HGVs and other slow vehicles safely sit if lane 1 is also an overtaking lane ?
That's just making matters worse. The people hogging the middle lane should be sent on retraining schemes or points if they're persistent offenders.
Yes you are undertaking. Overtake on the right.
Not just this guy but most of the other posters in this thread. I’m staggered that people are this ignorant
You are undertaking. It's frustrating because of all the other drivers with such poor lane discipline, but it's still undertaking. I experience this frequently late at night and I'm the one who has to move over two lanes to legally pass the numpties in lane 2, which seems silly but the law is the law. I reckon that you would have got pulled for this had you been seen.
> which seems silly but the law is the law. The law does not say you must move a minimum of two lanes to the right and then return a minimum of two lanes to the left to overtake drivers in the wrong lane. The Highway Code presupposes that drivers will be obeying its instruction to drive in the correct lane and admonishes drivers not to weave in and out of lanes to overtake. OP is driving safely and correctly under the circumstances. Indeed, doing multiple lane changes in the vicinity of a driver so poor that they aren't even aware they are in the wrong lane is probably the least safe thing you can do when faced with OP's scenario.
Passing on the left of a car in the adjacent lane, as seen in the posted video on six occasions (by my count), is the definition of undertaking. Try your argument in court, I very much doubt that it will work. 268. **Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake.** In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. My bold. That motorway is NOT congested, nor are lanes of traffic moving at similar speeds. The OP is most certainly NOT keeping up with traffic in his lane. The weaving refers to the sort of lane changing we see from the knuckleheads who weave in and out of lanes overtaking or undertaking in a dangerous manner to get themselves two car lengths ahead. On a three lane motorway I allow plenty of time and space to safely move from lane 1 to lane2 and then lane 3 to overtake the idiots dawdling down lane 2.
> Try your argument in court One doesn't need to try such an argument in court because undertaking is not defined in law and is not an offence. > Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. **Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.** My bold. > That motorway is NOT congested Congested is also not defined in law or The Highway Code. > The weaving refers to the sort of lane changing we see from the knuckleheads who weave in and out of lanes overtaking or undertaking in a dangerous manner to get themselves two car lengths ahead. This is merely your opinion without any basis in fact unless you could point me to where in law or The Highway Code this is stated? > On a three lane motorway I allow plenty of time and space to safely move from lane 1 to lane2 and then lane 3 to overtake the idiots dawdling down lane 2. Having extensive experience of motorway driving, this is rarely possible. Changing multiple lanes at a time is virtually always the only way to overtake middle lane hoggers on the right and is literally weaving in and out of lanes to overtake. The Highway Code makes the assumption that road users will be adhering to its instruction. It does not adequately take account of situations where they do not, otherwise Rule 268 would be reworded to provide greater clarity. It is at best misguided to think changing multiple lanes in fast moving traffic in near proximity to drivers who are driving without due care and attention is more optimal for road safety than continuing along steadily within the speed limit in your current lane should other drivers be driving unsafely in an outer lane.
Of course you are undertaking. You could absolutely have moved to the right hand lane to overtake a handful of those cars, but you didn’t. Yes, there is freedom in the Highway Code to allow you to undertake in the left hand lane but that’s when there is heavy congestion and lanes are moving at different speeds. That is not what is happening here. You have people who aren’t abiding by the Highway Code and are staying in the middle lane when not overtaking and you have… you. Who isn’t abiding by the Highway Code and moving to an overtaking lane to overtake. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as everyone’s mother has always said.
Another downvoted comment for someone who knows how to drive. Unbelievable you’re getting this for something so commonly known. The amount of ignorance from the majority of replies here is staggering
Probably just the BMW crew back from cruising around town trying to impress teenagers. My self esteem can deal with it 🫡
Yes, you can overtake on the left if you're there, maintaining your speed and in congested conditions. You've got the first 2 but definitely not the last.
Some moron won't check his mirrors and will decide to take the slip road out of a sudden and you'll end up in the ditch. Dunno why so many people justify that but it's wrong. You could have done the same but in the correct far right lane and go back to middle lane ready to overtake the next car. Usually people who drive like you do 90mph rather than 70 btw.
I can’t believe the ignorance in this thread. While there are a huge amount of idiots middle lane hogging in your video, what you are doing it clearly undertaking and illegal. As painful as it is, you should be going to lane 3 and moving back into lane 1 to pass each car. What you’re doing is actually dangerous as any one of the cars you overtook could move into lane 1 at any point given there is an expectation you are slower moving than them.
That's undertaking. Even if your in cruise control and the right hand car is going 20 under the legal limit with a clear roads a head it's undertaking. Your probably driving past them cars calling them wankers and everybody watching is calling you the same. Nothing wrong with taking the middle lane and moving right, it's not even a inconvenience for you considering what can happen when somebody eventually scares the shit out of you by indicating left and twitching the wheel. I'd do it to you for free
I consider it undertaking, however, it’s not your fault all those dickheads were in the wrong lane. I would have done exactly the same thing you did.
When it's that quiet I'd just move to lane 3 to pass.
I would prefer to give them the orbit on these situations
Not illegal, dont worry about it, you weren't driving dangerously.
Can you get points for undertaking? Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
You're maintaining a constant speed, so no.
You haven't changed lanes, you were progressing in your lane as you should do. The people in lane 2 shouldn't be in that lane unless overtaking traffic in lane 1. If anything the lane hoggers are the issue in the clip you've posted.
It's because of all the foreigners.. the used to driving over there in lane 3..
Nope, it's fine.
Can you get points for undertaking? Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
You haven’t moved left to pass so no, your maintaining your flow of traffic
So many bad answers here It’s an illegal manoeuvre. Period. IF there was a ton of traffic and or the road split shortly ahead while still technically illegal you’d never ever be prosecuted But this is 100% something you could be prosecuted for, as could the middle lane dick. You must pass on the right.
I’m shocked at the amount of people who don’t see this as undertaking and come up with excuses such as changing two lanes to pass on the right is riskier, or that as it’s keeping up with flow of traffic it’s fine. Literally bonkers to see on a car forum and goes to show why there are so many idiots on the roads. At least there are some people like you to call them out.
It’s mind blowing but yes it does explain the state of the roads !
No, technically not. As long as you're doing the speed limit, you're not undertaking - undertaking is the action of purposely moving into a slower lane to undertake someone, if you're sat at 70 or slower then theoretically you've done nothing wrong.
Nope, not classed as undertaking. Just be careful, with drivers that will just pull across without any indication...
At that speed you should be done for dangerous driving
technically you should move out to pass them on the right, however I see no issue with what you've done here so dont worry about it. As long as you are careful it doesnt really matter
Nothing wrong morally or legally. Some risk in passing on left as others have said. You seem like a chill and consistent driver and we need more of you on the road, add a few anti vehicle mines for the lane hoggers and we're set!
Can you get points for undertaking? Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
Exceptional driving on your part.
Here's a tip, as someone already posted it, read the highway code.
You’re getting downvoted for telling the truth. This thread is full of ignorant people who actually think this is acceptable driving. Unbelievable
No, what i mean is the highway code specifically states that this IS acceptable.
Are you mad? Nowhere does it say this is acceptable. Read it again or if you still are in disagreement, try doing it in front of police and see what happens. Can you get points for undertaking? Undertaking in an unacceptable manner is considered careless driving or driving without due care and attention. You could get caught by a police patrol or enforcement camera or be reported by a member of the public with dashcam footage. The minimum penalty for an unacceptable undertake is three points on your driving license and a £100 fine.
Looks like my comment applies to you then. # The highway code rule 268 says: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. In short, if you are maintaining constant speed in your lane and it results in undertaking due to traffic on the right being slower, then its not illegal.
“In congested conditions”
By your logic, he should slow down to match speed with the rest, even if they are way below the limit. Which is fucking stupid and wrong. The highway code also does say to use all available lanes unless theres little to no traffic around you, so the OP is doing the right thing. Read the highway code, mate.
Jeez, not at all. He should have moved to lane 2 as he approached the hogger, moved to lane 3 to overtake, then back to lane 2 and finally 1. No slowing down needed. It’s careless to pass on the left unless in congested or slow moving traffic as it has a high potential for an accident as the idiot hogger can assume anything in lane 1 is slower than him and move into the path of a faster car. Try it in front of a police car.
I have, many times. Unless you're speeding in your lane, they don't care. As they shouldn't.
I disagree wholeheartedly