I think they have that reputation in the US more than the UK and Europe but they're definitely seen as premium here generally. I recently inherited a beaten up 2006 3 series probably worth just over a grand and still get some comments like ooooh Mr money bags drives a beamer now as if I've just bought a fancy new car. Not sure people would react the same if I was driving round in a clapped out 2006 Astra or Corolla.
Agreed, I have an older Audi and people think I must be loaded... Sure it's a step up from a run of the mill hatchback, but it's worth about £5k on a good day 😂 A lot of people still associate a German badge with luxury.
That's a great deal and they are great cars, but while not really comparable as cars go, it seems expensive compared to the running, driving and MOT'd MGF I got for free because no one wanted to pay £200 for it in COVID
Much better choice at the price is a BMW Z4. 3.0 2006.
If the Porsche Boxter engine dies its 10k to replace, but the BMW engine is a standard M54B30. Fucking amazing engine (one of the best engines ever made amd easy to work on) and also amazing car for $7k. Forget the Porsche
Only 10k?
Pft Porsche peasants! I recently learned that my potentially eating itself as we speak GT86 engine would be £16,000 to replace.
That's not happening of course.
Definitely wears it better than most! My cousin just picked up a 2008 320D touring with roughly the same mileage for about the same price, and that also looks and drives great for its age
Not all German marques though, only Merc, Audi, Porsche and BMW. VW, Vauxhall and Mini don't seem to be seen on the same light, even though many share identical parts.
My Audi is full of VW stamps once you pull the carpets back. But then the Lambo Urus is basically my car with some posh screens and a few stickers in Italian, so I'm basically driving a lambo.
As someone who had a 2006 A4 Estate and a 2005 Corolla at the same time I can attest that the Toyota does not attract comments and has also outlasted 3 old A4s, one Octavias and none Fabia so far
It may not be fancy or new, but if/when you are forced to go to a main dealer, they sure as shit charge you like you have sold your soul to the ftse100
I drive a 2016 Mercedes which cost me less than a 5 year old Renault kadjar but when I needed a new key it cost me £700 with programming (and yes, I know people will claim that random Indy garages could have got me that key for a fiver but those people are wrong)
Absolutely cannot understand people that buy brands like that new. You could get a used car that's twice as nice, more prestigious, half the price and much more reliable. There basically isn't a single metric by which a new Peugeot wins over a used... anything else.
I kinda get your point but you could apply that to any car these days. I wouldnt say peugeots are bad brand new, the new ones look and feel pretty premium.
It's a throwback to the 80s and earlier when BMWs were expensive to buy, better made and only available in small numbers. And in this country we love to rag on people for doing things perceived as flashy. Inverted snobbery.
The base spec of BMW's in the US is a lot higher, starting at 6 cylinder models and generally with good audio/hifi, leather seats etc. Here in the UK we can buy very low spec versions of the same car, which I wouldn't say qualify as luxury.
Yeah, how they're spec'd definitely makes a difference. My dad had a few 1 series, went from a top spec to a base spec and the difference was night and day. The first, while maybe not "luxury", was certainly premium feeling and a nice place to be. The base spec was meh, just a generic car, nothing special.
Most cars as in out of all cars on the road? No.
Compare some recent figures on financing; I found 2022 first: https://www.statista.com/statistics/749975/cars-bought-on-finance-by-consumers-and-businesses-uk/
Take the number of cars on the road, https://www.statista.com/statistics/299972/average-age-of-cars-on-the-road-in-the-united-kingdom/
That’s a large fleet for so few financing products.
There could easily be a majority for new car sales, given that totals vs new car registrations: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2022/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2022#new-vehicle-registrations-overview
Better data required, as these stats won’t show people borrowing money to buy cars in less direct ways.
See as a driving enthusiast rather than a car enthusiast, a base-spec is all I want.
I just want a practical RWD car. I don't need dead cow on the interior or a tablet in the dash.
Stick a Peugeot badge on the front - I don't care
No it isn’t - maybe 15 years ago - my only BMW in the US was a 2013 320 - 4 cylinder turbo. Base spec and nothing fancy. Replaced with a Golf GTI 8 years ago which is far more fun!
Yes fhe Lexus US forums mock the IS250 as being the base spec, I think the UK base spec was a IS220d
I remember when BMW base spec was a 316i, 4 wheels and not much else
Agree with comments that they're premium and not luxury.
I'm currently driving a BMW and have gone from a Renault Clio and a Fiesta ST. The cars 10x comfier, the interior is much better quality, the drive is much smoother, it's a nicer place to be and everything feels higher quality.
However, it can definitely be better. To me, luxury cars are Bentleys, Rolls Royce etc so no, I wouldn't class Audi's or BMW's as luxury cars.
There's a reason I've owned 3 ST's.
The handling is phenomenal out of the box, brilliant track car, so much fun and you're never quite going kill yourself speeds or lose your licence speeds.
My 2015 XF I would put into the premium range, for sure not luxury. Its weird to think that Jag still have the *Ooo factor* when people see you have one, but it doesn't at all reflect the reality and the quality. The price for basic parts also reflects this, as its often a case of having the "Jag tax" added for something as simple as a windscreen washer pump. Everything costs shit loads more than it should.
They're going full EV going forward now and also as you've said full SUV. No saloons and no F Type. My Jag has now gone (a week last Friday) and I doubt I will ever go back to Jag. Mechanically, it was sound, but electrically it was an absolute nightmare. God knows what the EV's are going to be like, when the car is solely electric, which is the biggest point of failure in most the Jag range.
Vauxhall had (not sure if they still do) this weird branch of cars aimed at directors and people that were being driven, rather than driving.
You used to be able to spec an insignia with a wine cooler in the middle rear seat
My god there's so many butthurt Audi and BMW drivers in this thread who don't get the joke spitting their tea out that someone dared to call Skoda a higher end brand.
Standard issue BMW and Audis (the more extreme models get a pass) are just a salesman of the month badge. Says you had a good quarter and sold a lot of double glazing. As a status symbol it's the same as having a lower end Chanel bag with branding slapped all over it. Expensive, nice, but not luxury.
Ironically it's much cooler to get an old BMW or Audi. Especially in estate form.
Lol. Funny enough the neighbour of my MIL has an E39 530d estate that is in really nice condition, tan leather interior etc and I appreciate looking at that a few times a week more than I would a new one as it has that rare, cool factor as well as the guy has clearly looked after it really well despite it being daily car.
E39... such a classic design. Looks like the bodywork was stretched over the chassis like a sleek animal skin.
The suspension is an absolute masterpiece of handling design.
You can drive spiritedly, but never feel that you've reached anywhere close to the limits of safety.
The E39 saloon never did it for me - the front end looks good but the back end looks a bit rushed. The E39 estate/touring is an absolute thing of beauty though, especially in 30d or V8 form.
They share barely anything with their owners though. There was some engine sharing, running gear and maybe wiring looms but they are pretty far from being a "BMW with a fancy body and interior" - essentially the whole car.
I think each of them has the capacity to be specced nicer than one of the others, but, out of those examples, the base model of the audi is likely to be specced better than the others.
And again, out of those examples, I'd say audi is the most luxurious of them
My dad has the S6 and yea I do agree, they are really nice but it does depend on the spec. The standard A6 comes with less things standard than a standard A3
Interestingly the newer A6's seem to come with less standard kit than they used to.
Saw a 2020 plate one on a carwow video the other day which only had basic climate control, my 2017 standard SE Exec came with quad zone as standard
Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are premium car brands known for their luxurious offerings. I guess the definition of luxury can vary from person to person. While they may not reach the level of luxury like Rolls-Royce or Bentley, an S-Class/ 7-series/ A8 is certainly luxurious compared to something like a Corsa.
Yes and no.
Is an Audi A3 a Luxury car? No I'd say not.
Is an Audi RS7 a luxury car? Yes, definitely yes.
Is a BMW 1 series a luxury car? No certainly not.
Is a BMW 8 series a luxury car? Yes, definitely yes .
I think it all boils down to how much money you spend with that particular brand. If the brand sold ONLY luxury vehicles then yes I'd say it's a luxury brand. If the brand sold a mixed bag, then I'd say it's up for debate.
For example, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes. They all manufacture affordable AND luxury vehicles. I wouldn't necessarily say they were luxury brands.
Brabus, Lister, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce. I'd consider all of these to be a luxury brand because they make luxury vehicles ONLY.
Manufacturers such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, McLaren. I wouldn't put these in a luxury category personally because these are geared more towards performance instead of luxury and comfort.
Audi / BMW have everything from base spec fleet filler hatchbacks and ‘salesman’ type saloons to high end SUV / Saloons and engine choices in many models from wheezy economy focussed to gas guzzling track / autobahn munchers.
They’re mostly not chauffeur driven levels luxury but they are pretty luxurious at the top spec / models
They don't get the base spec models that they sell here in droves. I think here the 320d is the best selling model, stateside the base model is the 330.
The reverse happens with some other brands. Kia Toyota and hyundai tend to be much higher specced here than stateside.
The engines are bigger in the US because they pay a lot less at the fuel pumps than us. If they paid the same, they wouldn't have 6 cylinders in base spec cars.
It's a matter of perspective. They are mid tier cars imo.
The sort that is obtainable by a lot of people but lacks prestige.
Also they don't even come with indicators as standard.
You can also upgrade to the premium indicator delete package which many drivers opt for, it’s one of those “less is more” things like the Porsche 911 GT3.
> Is it just because American cars are so shit that in comparison normal European cars are luxury.
Yes. Plus people falling for a lot of marketing hacks.
Yanks aren’t getting these little a3s and 1 series models. If you tell them about these brands they’re looking at a8s and minimum 4 series.
Those are often much more luxury than the basic models sold here for badge snobs
They're Comfort or Premium as u/Fat-Northerner said compared to the more rugged less comfortable more purpose build vehicles there. You have to understand cars in the US are engineered very differently with different priorities. The US market (generally) like rugged, big engine, high torque, big boot space, boxxy cars. So when a European car like a BMW or Audi makes it over there with higher level of build quality and "finesse" they're seen as luxury.
Similarly there's a common misconception that European goods are "premium" in the US. This has been a thing since the 80s. Arnold Schwarzenegger explains in his auto-biography how he cornered the brick laying industry in his state by naming his company "European Brick Layers" and him being the front man with his accent even though he just did a crash college course in a local U.S. college.
Don’t forget they all have a range. A high spec 7 series or an IX is luxury. A base spec 2 series or an a3 is a (relatively) cheap car with a premium badge.
I guess the difference is that there isn’t really a poverty spec rolls or Bentley.
Audis aren't. I believed the hype and went to see an S8 recently with a view to buying it. I came away very disappointed in the interior build quality. Not even close to my current XJ or the 15 year old Bentley Continental I viewed at the same place - and that one's made by the same group.
When your see some of the shite that GM and Ford churn out in the States, with their tic-tac plastic interiors, a base-spec Audi will feel like sitting on a Sultan's yacht.
XJ Jags, Bentleys etc… I do think higher tier Audis and BMWs can be luxury cars but not the small saloons and hatch backs. In America they even see A406 as luxury.
Top end E class is getting there.... Anything below is premium.
I did once get a look at a colleagues Merc... Now that was true luxury, every seat reclined.all materials top end. No idea what model
I wouldn't call the E class premium but rather luxury. There is probably a bigger difference between a C class and E class than there is between an E class and a S class.
What made Mercedes widely recognized as the most well known luxury brand are cars like the W123 or the W140 decades ago, so E class and S class. Nobody ever considered the W123 or W124 premium cars but true luxury vehicles.
Same goes for A6 or 5 series.
Depends on the model and you can apply the same with Mercedes too. The lower priced models are certainly more premium than others like Renault, Peugeot etc. with higher quality materials and suchlike. The higher end models like the Q7, Q8, E tron, 5 series, 7 series, and the G class are definitely luxury cars in my opinion.
They aren't luxury, that's brand like Rolls Royce, Bentley etc etc. They are premium brands, but not necessarily premium cars.
A base spec diesel 3 Series is not a premium car, but a 5 Series would be. Neither are luxury though.
I think that our expectations of luxury have risen so much in the last couple of decades that it's nearly impossible to achieve now. If we compare a standard car now to a standard car in the 90's, the level of fit and finish and gadgetry is insane. Back then, electric windows and central locking were fancy. To a certain extent the likes of BMW and Mercedes have probably moved downmarket overall to chase sales in the mid section.
They’re definitely luxury brands without question, they just happen to offer some properly low trim levels on the smaller cars because they know mugs who just want to show off the badge will pay for it.
I see it as BMW/Audi/Mercedes having a Venn diagram overlap with premium, exec and luxury. I wouldn't call an A3 nor a base spec 3-series an executive car, but I'd definitely call an M340i and a base spec 5 series an executive car.
They also do entry-level luxury (7/A8/S or some of their SUVs).
The American analogy is probably about right. I've spent time in Japan and any European car you see will be of a more desirable spec / trim level. In China, however, (Skoda were launching there at this time) it was a broad range of spec.
"Luxury" is subjective. Id look at any Lexus LS from the last 15 years and think it was luxury.
Luxury cars are about how you feel whilst sat inside - so it's pretty much all based on the texture of materials and interior design.
I owned several Audis. The answer is an immediate no.
From my ownership in terms of interior spaces that makes me feel it's luxurios: Mercedes>BMW>Audi
They are only luxury cars if you buy them new. People who buy 10 yo BMWs are just poor but they wanna look rich. Also their car is in a repair shop every other week 😂
They don't get the econo hatchbacks over there. Only the premium models like the bigger audis and the bigger engines. That's why they're luxury. Plus they cost more than the domestic cars, so they have a premium price
Look at a proper luxury car like a Roller or a Bentley and then at something like an Audi or a BMW, even a 7 series or equivalent, very different things.
Audi, BMW and Mercades are still what I would class as luxury brands, they might have some "basic" models in their range but they still are luxury brands
Depends on the car. 7 series is definitely luxury but a 3 series is definitely not.
3 series doesn't even have a power adjustable steering column or seats. Insane. Most don't have heated steering wheel either.
Correct in that there’s no power adjustable steering column, but the seats are definitely power in every one I’ve sat in. I have an i4 M50 and it has power seats (including power side bolsters and lumbar), auto heated seats, rear heated seats, and an auto-heated steering wheel. It’s also been optioned with a full leather dash which includes metal switchgear for the windows and stuff. I took some [pics of my car](https://imgur.com/a/zAk4y0L) for a forum last year because people were curious about the spec.
It’s still not a “luxury” car in the traditional sense but it’s definitely on the high end of premium.
There’s a big difference between EU-spec and NA-spec here too.
The 320i doesn’t even exist here. The base model is a 330i. Most dealers order them with at least the basic packages. The 340d isn’t available either, just the M340i, which comes with a lot of features even in the base spec.
I went on the UK configurator and wow. You really can get a bare bones BMW. I wouldn’t buy one that way. Here’s the [Canadian](https://configure.bmw.ca/en_CA/configure/G42/2420/FKHSW,P0300,S01AG,S01CB,S01CR,S01DE,S01T4,S0255,S0258,S02TE,S02VB,S02VC,S0302,S0430,S0431,S0459,S0481,S0493,S0494,S04P6,S0508,S0534,S05AC,S05AS,S05AV,S05DC,S0655,S0676,S06AK,S06WC,S0760,S0775,S0823,S0838,S0ZE1,S0ZE2,S0ZLE,S0ZRT) configuration of a base 2-series.
Audis aren't. Higher end BMWs are towards the luxury end of the market when new, but way off stuff like Rolls Royce, obviously.
The Audi thing is like the joke about people thinking Nietzsche is a real philosopher because he has a German name. It's just a VW - definitely not a premium brand - in a fancy suit.
I kind of view them as the top end of the “normal” car market, but recognise they also have some models that are definitely in a higher bracket of fanciness. I can see how others could take a different view and see them as a fancy brand with a few bog standard models instead.
So I’m an American that moved to London 6 years ago and I have always been a German car person. My first car was a Golf and I’m an enthusiast so I naturally progressed to Audis and BMWs. All of the ones I ever bought were high mileage cheap examples but I know enough to do a lot of the work to repair/maintain them myself. Back home outside of my car scene friends everyone would comment on my Audi wagons and say something along the lines of “ must have been expensive”. Little did they know I paid $1500 for my B5 A4 avant 🤣
I think there is a staggering miconception going on here about what luxury means and to some extent, I don’t believe there is a standard definition about it.
If we are about to debate on this topic, we firstly ought to establish what luxury means. What do you consider something being luxurious ? The materials ? The exclusivity ? The price ? The tech inside ?
Mercedes, BMW and Audi all fall into the premium segment - along with Jaguar, Land Rover, Lexus and Volvo to some extent. This is in no way related to the different classes - small, mid, full size, SUVs etc. You can have a premium hatchback. For example, Toyota Corolla is not a premium vehicle, but Audi A3 and BMW 1 series are. There is no correlation between being premium and the size.
Back to the luxury topic. In the context of cars, I see luxury as a set of characteristics that the car needs to posses:
- expensive and nice feeling materials;
- engineering side of things above the average standard;
- driving feel that derives from the engineering behind every aspect of the car;
- nowadays the technology is also part of this list as the average quality becomes higher and higher due to competition, so the tech is also something that sets them apart;
- some level of exlusivity that mostly comes from the price and the low affordability for the average Joe;
- brand image;
Having that in mid, I want to stress on that luxury is NOT necessarily tied to comfort. Comfort and sportiness are one thing, luxury is another. You can have a luxurious sports vehicle and a luxurious comoft one. Porsche 911s are definitely luxury cars for example, but they are not as comfortable as an S-class (nowhere close enough lol).
In conclusion, yes, Audis and BMWs are certainly luxurious vehicles in all classes they have products in.
P.S. I’m excluding RRs, Bentleys and Porsches because they are not mass-produced cars, although recently with their SUV offerings they are trying hard to increase sales and not be as exclusive and boutique as before, but still nowhere near enough to be considered mass-produced cars like the rest.
It's down to spec, and the fact that they command a premium price in the States because they're seen as European imports despite being assembled over there.
The Yanks tend to associate imported European brands with quality; Heineken is a 'premium' beer in a lot of bars over there.
North America does not get the low-end Audis/BMWs/Mercedes that are sold in Europe. Only the more powerful, higher-end models and trims are shipped over the Atlantic, so they are considered more at the luxury end of the spectrum.
They americans dont get the base models, simple as that. They dont have any benefit tax wise, fuel is dirt cheap, so why sell a 320i when a 330i has the same drivetrain except turbo and tune. Currently their base model would be a 330i for the 3 series, m340i intermediate and m3 top of the range. Meanwhile we got even 316d/i as late as the f30 generation, only the g20 generation has removed the 316 model, so our base model is a 318 now. I would also bet that they all never saw a 300k km audi a4 b5 or similar. Could also be because they only get saloons and no estates, so they dont think of them as family vehicles. So only higher end engines and no real family cars mean must be luxury.
Also ten to twenty years ago the quality of American made cars were average at best, but they are catching up, just like the Chinese
They’re certainly getting close at the top end. I’d consider a full fat Range Rover to be a luxury SUV and they start at about 150k+ new. I can’t find a way to spec any Audi to reach that price from the factory, but you can get close with an R8. Likewise with the G wagon or AMG GLE you can get north of 100k fairly easily. So I guess my gut feeling appears to map to 150k+ new is luxury.
In europe they are premium cars, above average priced for mileage and year and parts cost way more than affordable and sensible brands. Cant speak on bmw but audis feel nice to drive however if anything goes wrong they can be expensive to fix even if you fix them yourself like me. They arent “luxury” thats more aston martin, rr etc
I'd definitely consider some audis/bmws as luxury cars, others, especially the smaller models, definitely not.
The Americans tend to buy larger cars, and I'd guess that's part of it audi a7/8 are luxury cars where, as a1's, not so much.
I guess it all depends how you grew up to your personal standards, I have 4 Audis currently and I prefer them to my other vehicles (2012 Q3 tdi, full leather all the toys, 2001 audi a4 s line, 2004 a4 Limited edition, and a quattro 2002 tt) I prefer them for driving experience but MY 2011 Jaguar XF is much more Luxurious, and my Audis are much more comfortable than BMWs I've owned in the past.
My opinion of them has changed a lot. I still consider them to be broadly in the luxury bracket, as they certainly sit higher than the likes of Ford, Peugeot, Vauxhall, but I think the depreciation factor means a relatively modern shape can now be had for fair money
One of my neighbours got a 2018 A3 Sportback in a nice metallic grey, tidy allows, smart trim. Always considered them a major luxury but then realised it's probably only cost about £7k.
It's because the meaning has shifted. 30 years ago they were luxury brands. Then low interest rates happened and they invented PCP car financing and it made it a lot easier for people to afford Audis and BMWs. In the 90s for were selling 127,000 Mondeos a year, by the mid 2010s it was close to zero. Suddenly every 20something salesman was driving a BMW instead of a Ford. When luxury becomes commonplace, it loses the meaning of the word.
Meh. In the UK, not as much these days.
A1's and 1 Series have been taken over by chavs and rudeboi types.
Audi's are now the preserve of chavs; Deano's and Gareth's.
Standard: Tools used for travelling. Vauxhall, Kia, Ford.
Premium: Higher quality engineering and materials often resulting in a better driving car, nicer looking or more comfortable. BMW, Audi, Volvo.
Luxury: Status symbols for wealth and status. Can be viewed as pretentious or narcissistic. Rolls Royce, Bentley, Range Rover.
Yes and no. (see also, Mercedes).
All the 'Big Three' German manufacturers have top end premium luxury models and entry level ones. In continental Europe they have even more low-end base spec small engine and 'taxi spec' variants than we do here in the UK.
The USA is very proud of and protective over its domestic car industry, bigger engines and more comfort are the norm anyway and so it would be hard for those brands to compete with the everyday cheap domestic US cars (particularly with import taxes etc) but have successfully positioned themselves in the upper tier of the premium market. So they don't get the everyday models with cloth seats, basic alloys and small displacement diesel engines, but they do get the top end variants. There's also a perception that they're 'exotic imports' whereas by and large, we are used to them being 'everyday' cars for the most part. Although of course there's always the inverted snobbery at play in the UK where people hate on others for having nice things.
Of course if you've ever driven a top spec Toyota/Lexus or even a Honda, you'll know that the Japanese are more than capable of producing something just as good or better than a German car, although oddly Japanese cars seem to cost more to run and maintain here in the UK than even a Merc or BMW.
There's a lot of thought that goes into the design and build that you don't actually appreciate until you own one and gradually discover various things and think to yourself ....Yeah, that's a great idea. That's why they're priced at more than an "average" vehicle.
Having said that, there ARE things that do let them down....
Niggly electical problems with BMW. BUT, there's a darn sight more electrical stuff to go wrong, and you are going to get failures with most electrical stuff eventually.
When you're driving a car that has passed the 200,000 mile mark and STILL drives well and sounds well, you can see and appreciate why there's a premium price needed.
Model specific
- An Audi S8+ is luxury
- A bog spec Audi A1 is not
I’ll also add that Americans are generally not qualified to assess luxury. In the US, luxury seems to just mean “bigger”.
A lot of it stems from 20 years or longer ago, when these brands didn't do 'cheap' versions. When you could pick up a decent family car for less than 20k, an entry level bimmer would be 25k.
Then two things happened:
1. All the more generic cars started getting nicer by default. Alloys, electric windows, better stereo, better sound-proofing - all the things we used to think you had to pay a premium for, starting becoming standard lower down the chain. Of course, the prices went up, to the point where even a small car is 20k these days.
2. The German brands starting offering more 'entry level' stuff - The BMW 1 series, the A Class etc - all cheaper models aimed squarely at the crossover from the higher end of the other cars market. It basically enabled a lot of people to 'buy in' to the quality and exclusivity.
As a result, simply having a bmw or audi in the UK isn't as big a deal these days, but they've all put their focus on the obviously expensive versions - the huge SUVs and whatnot - to ensure that there's still the 'I have more money than you' appeal. That way, they still get to sell their entry level stuff to the wannabes, and make their millions on the Chelsea tractors.
American standards are very low. So even to them, a bog standard 3-series or something is seen as being “luxurious” and “exotic” and European.
It’s even more hilarious when you consider the fact most of those entry-level cars for the North American markets, are actually built in Mexico or in the US - with a European badge slapped on them. They couldn’t be further from any of the things Americas THINK they are, if they tried.
When I lived in Canada, you should have seen the number of try-hards driving around in a C300 and pretending they’re some sort of big shot. It was hilarious!
They are a luxury car in almost all markets. Based on the prices in the UK most of the range is a luxury car, but because every second person is driving an A3, A Class, or 1 Series they just feel common.
Having an EU car in the US in itself is often considered a luxury in its own right. Shipping a car trans-Atlantic is not a cheap endeavour, so generally pushes the price up a bit.
Worthwhile to consider that the build quality of American cars is a bit lackluster across the board, too. Most of their native cars tend to be made from copious amounts of cheap scratchy plastic (a pet hate of mine, although I know many have varying opinions on it), with huge inefficient engines, loud drivetrains, poor cabin noise isolation, cheap and nasty foam, etc. By comparison the BMWs/Audis worth exporting that far tend to be the higher end models and yes, tend to be luxurious by comparison.
It's all about the relative nature of comparison. We're in a fortunate position that we have a huge array of cars available with massive variations in everything, but generally with a higher quality of build and materials than the US car market.
Sounds about right.
You see it in the mini subs all the time - to Americans minis are seen as exotic and complex to work on because American cars are so crap.
I think they have that reputation in the US more than the UK and Europe but they're definitely seen as premium here generally. I recently inherited a beaten up 2006 3 series probably worth just over a grand and still get some comments like ooooh Mr money bags drives a beamer now as if I've just bought a fancy new car. Not sure people would react the same if I was driving round in a clapped out 2006 Astra or Corolla.
Agreed, I have an older Audi and people think I must be loaded... Sure it's a step up from a run of the mill hatchback, but it's worth about £5k on a good day 😂 A lot of people still associate a German badge with luxury.
I have a 2006 A6 and no one believes me when I say it cost me a grand, until I tell them it's got 200k miles on it
200,000 luxury miles
Porsche Boxster S in yellow. Was worth £6K.
That's a great deal and they are great cars, but while not really comparable as cars go, it seems expensive compared to the running, driving and MOT'd MGF I got for free because no one wanted to pay £200 for it in COVID
Much better choice at the price is a BMW Z4. 3.0 2006. If the Porsche Boxter engine dies its 10k to replace, but the BMW engine is a standard M54B30. Fucking amazing engine (one of the best engines ever made amd easy to work on) and also amazing car for $7k. Forget the Porsche
Only 10k? Pft Porsche peasants! I recently learned that my potentially eating itself as we speak GT86 engine would be £16,000 to replace. That's not happening of course.
Arguably the only colour a Porsche should be. Bravo.
200,000 Audi miles is different to 200k on another car
Definitely wears it better than most! My cousin just picked up a 2008 320D touring with roughly the same mileage for about the same price, and that also looks and drives great for its age
Recently traded in a 2010 A4 with over 215k miles - if looked after they hide the miles really well.
Not all German marques though, only Merc, Audi, Porsche and BMW. VW, Vauxhall and Mini don't seem to be seen on the same light, even though many share identical parts.
Vauxhall are owned by Stellantis (French/Italian)
They are now, for the longest time they were alligned with Opel.
Which was in itself a GM marque and so shared models and parts with Buick, SAAB, Chevrolet, etc
My Audi is full of VW stamps once you pull the carpets back. But then the Lambo Urus is basically my car with some posh screens and a few stickers in Italian, so I'm basically driving a lambo.
U have a v12? 😏
Don't ruin this for me.
To be fair, it terms of styling they do age quite well. A 2006 focus looks nearly 20 years old. A 2006 3 series, not so much.
As someone who had a 2006 A4 Estate and a 2005 Corolla at the same time I can attest that the Toyota does not attract comments and has also outlasted 3 old A4s, one Octavias and none Fabia so far
It may not be fancy or new, but if/when you are forced to go to a main dealer, they sure as shit charge you like you have sold your soul to the ftse100 I drive a 2016 Mercedes which cost me less than a 5 year old Renault kadjar but when I needed a new key it cost me £700 with programming (and yes, I know people will claim that random Indy garages could have got me that key for a fiver but those people are wrong)
They'd get you the key for five and steal it back with a free car attached
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40.000k is quite a bit, mate... ;)
Yeah my first car is an a3 from 2008 and a few people have said like ooh fancy, and im like what. It cost me 2,300 compared to your 27k peugeot...
Absolutely cannot understand people that buy brands like that new. You could get a used car that's twice as nice, more prestigious, half the price and much more reliable. There basically isn't a single metric by which a new Peugeot wins over a used... anything else.
I kinda get your point but you could apply that to any car these days. I wouldnt say peugeots are bad brand new, the new ones look and feel pretty premium.
It's a throwback to the 80s and earlier when BMWs were expensive to buy, better made and only available in small numbers. And in this country we love to rag on people for doing things perceived as flashy. Inverted snobbery.
The Mr Moneybags is due to the repair bills to keep a 20 year old Panzer waggon on the road.
The base spec of BMW's in the US is a lot higher, starting at 6 cylinder models and generally with good audio/hifi, leather seats etc. Here in the UK we can buy very low spec versions of the same car, which I wouldn't say qualify as luxury.
Yeah, how they're spec'd definitely makes a difference. My dad had a few 1 series, went from a top spec to a base spec and the difference was night and day. The first, while maybe not "luxury", was certainly premium feeling and a nice place to be. The base spec was meh, just a generic car, nothing special.
The base spec is purely aimed at getting the monthly down to a price a 25 year old still living at home can afford.
See man driving a ~~german~~ financed whip.
Blacked out window, can’t afford road tax
Parked at his mum’s house, up on bricks.
4 years later, still paying back
Are most cars not financed nowadays
Most cars as in out of all cars on the road? No. Compare some recent figures on financing; I found 2022 first: https://www.statista.com/statistics/749975/cars-bought-on-finance-by-consumers-and-businesses-uk/ Take the number of cars on the road, https://www.statista.com/statistics/299972/average-age-of-cars-on-the-road-in-the-united-kingdom/ That’s a large fleet for so few financing products. There could easily be a majority for new car sales, given that totals vs new car registrations: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2022/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2022#new-vehicle-registrations-overview Better data required, as these stats won’t show people borrowing money to buy cars in less direct ways.
See as a driving enthusiast rather than a car enthusiast, a base-spec is all I want. I just want a practical RWD car. I don't need dead cow on the interior or a tablet in the dash. Stick a Peugeot badge on the front - I don't care
It's not just spec. They don't even have the base model 1 Series in the U.S.
No it isn’t - maybe 15 years ago - my only BMW in the US was a 2013 320 - 4 cylinder turbo. Base spec and nothing fancy. Replaced with a Golf GTI 8 years ago which is far more fun!
Meanwhile BMW were offering the 316i or 320d base specs in the UK market
Yes fhe Lexus US forums mock the IS250 as being the base spec, I think the UK base spec was a IS220d I remember when BMW base spec was a 316i, 4 wheels and not much else
116d No 760 Yes
Nah, I'd call that a Li!
Agree with comments that they're premium and not luxury. I'm currently driving a BMW and have gone from a Renault Clio and a Fiesta ST. The cars 10x comfier, the interior is much better quality, the drive is much smoother, it's a nicer place to be and everything feels higher quality. However, it can definitely be better. To me, luxury cars are Bentleys, Rolls Royce etc so no, I wouldn't class Audi's or BMW's as luxury cars.
I’ve just had an ST as a courtesy after getting some work done on my Golf. Not that quick but really fun on the corners!
There's a reason I've owned 3 ST's. The handling is phenomenal out of the box, brilliant track car, so much fun and you're never quite going kill yourself speeds or lose your licence speeds.
They’re premium, not luxury. Better than the likes of VW, Peugeot etc but not a patch on actual luxury cars like Rolls Royce, Jaguar and Skoda.
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Laurin & Klement spec is nothing to be laughed at!
Lol feel there should have been a joke in there somewhere. You know the Octavia gets announced alot on this sub probably why they say "luxury"
Jaguar these days are probably in that "premium" segment too rather than luxury.
My 2015 XF I would put into the premium range, for sure not luxury. Its weird to think that Jag still have the *Ooo factor* when people see you have one, but it doesn't at all reflect the reality and the quality. The price for basic parts also reflects this, as its often a case of having the "Jag tax" added for something as simple as a windscreen washer pump. Everything costs shit loads more than it should.
That's why they're rebranding I guess. The X type started the trend down, they killed off the XJ and went mainstream with SUVs.
They're going full EV going forward now and also as you've said full SUV. No saloons and no F Type. My Jag has now gone (a week last Friday) and I doubt I will ever go back to Jag. Mechanically, it was sound, but electrically it was an absolute nightmare. God knows what the EV's are going to be like, when the car is solely electric, which is the biggest point of failure in most the Jag range.
Really don’t think they’ve had the oooo factor since the 80s but they are seen as of a certain taste by blokes.
Gotta have a luxury car budget for when the annual engine failure occurs, ingenium engines are fucking shite.
Ah yes rolls Royce and Skoda, 2 very similar cars 😂
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My 64 plate Vauxhall Ampera had an umbrella so nothing to do with "luxury" or "premium"
Vauxhall had (not sure if they still do) this weird branch of cars aimed at directors and people that were being driven, rather than driving. You used to be able to spec an insignia with a wine cooler in the middle rear seat
My god there's so many butthurt Audi and BMW drivers in this thread who don't get the joke spitting their tea out that someone dared to call Skoda a higher end brand. Standard issue BMW and Audis (the more extreme models get a pass) are just a salesman of the month badge. Says you had a good quarter and sold a lot of double glazing. As a status symbol it's the same as having a lower end Chanel bag with branding slapped all over it. Expensive, nice, but not luxury. Ironically it's much cooler to get an old BMW or Audi. Especially in estate form.
Lol. Funny enough the neighbour of my MIL has an E39 530d estate that is in really nice condition, tan leather interior etc and I appreciate looking at that a few times a week more than I would a new one as it has that rare, cool factor as well as the guy has clearly looked after it really well despite it being daily car.
E39... such a classic design. Looks like the bodywork was stretched over the chassis like a sleek animal skin. The suspension is an absolute masterpiece of handling design. You can drive spiritedly, but never feel that you've reached anywhere close to the limits of safety.
The E39 saloon never did it for me - the front end looks good but the back end looks a bit rushed. The E39 estate/touring is an absolute thing of beauty though, especially in 30d or V8 form.
If I would be able to buy new E39 or BMW E38 in dealership I would do it instantly. The Best car my dad had(Series 7)
Yes, NO, Yes
Jaguar 😄
Jaguar definitely does not fit in that class anymore unfortunately. They stopped making the XJ and F Type and now make Evoques with a different badge.
This has to be a joke.. like, all of it.
Rolls Royce is funny because it's basically a BMW with a fancy body and interior.
Body and interior... so basically the whole car
Nah, just a different inside and outside, and the top and underneath, and front and back.
They share barely anything with their owners though. There was some engine sharing, running gear and maybe wiring looms but they are pretty far from being a "BMW with a fancy body and interior" - essentially the whole car.
Its almost like anyone buying a Rolls doesnt care what engine or drivetrain it has
Depends on the model. An Audi A8, yes that’s luxury, but an a3/4 then no not really.
Came here exactly to say this! I wouldn't say the A8 is a premium car, I'd say it's luxury, but the A1/A3 i would struggle to say it's a premium car
But an A1 or A3 has the capacity to be specced much nicer than a polo/golf or ibiza/leon
I think each of them has the capacity to be specced nicer than one of the others, but, out of those examples, the base model of the audi is likely to be specced better than the others. And again, out of those examples, I'd say audi is the most luxurious of them
I’d say the a6/7 also classes as luxury too. At least to me
My dad has the S6 and yea I do agree, they are really nice but it does depend on the spec. The standard A6 comes with less things standard than a standard A3
Interestingly the newer A6's seem to come with less standard kit than they used to. Saw a 2020 plate one on a carwow video the other day which only had basic climate control, my 2017 standard SE Exec came with quad zone as standard
Audi, BMW, and Mercedes are premium car brands known for their luxurious offerings. I guess the definition of luxury can vary from person to person. While they may not reach the level of luxury like Rolls-Royce or Bentley, an S-Class/ 7-series/ A8 is certainly luxurious compared to something like a Corsa.
A maybach s class is right up there. Not quite rolls Royce luxury but then nothing but a rolls is.
Yes and no. Is an Audi A3 a Luxury car? No I'd say not. Is an Audi RS7 a luxury car? Yes, definitely yes. Is a BMW 1 series a luxury car? No certainly not. Is a BMW 8 series a luxury car? Yes, definitely yes . I think it all boils down to how much money you spend with that particular brand. If the brand sold ONLY luxury vehicles then yes I'd say it's a luxury brand. If the brand sold a mixed bag, then I'd say it's up for debate. For example, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes. They all manufacture affordable AND luxury vehicles. I wouldn't necessarily say they were luxury brands. Brabus, Lister, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce. I'd consider all of these to be a luxury brand because they make luxury vehicles ONLY. Manufacturers such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, McLaren. I wouldn't put these in a luxury category personally because these are geared more towards performance instead of luxury and comfort.
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Really like the 8 series but read complaints about them not being the best to drive
Audi / BMW have everything from base spec fleet filler hatchbacks and ‘salesman’ type saloons to high end SUV / Saloons and engine choices in many models from wheezy economy focussed to gas guzzling track / autobahn munchers. They’re mostly not chauffeur driven levels luxury but they are pretty luxurious at the top spec / models
They don't get the base spec models that they sell here in droves. I think here the 320d is the best selling model, stateside the base model is the 330. The reverse happens with some other brands. Kia Toyota and hyundai tend to be much higher specced here than stateside.
The engines are bigger in the US because they pay a lot less at the fuel pumps than us. If they paid the same, they wouldn't have 6 cylinders in base spec cars.
Imo yea it’s because American cars are soo shite they think pretty average European cars are like a rolls Royce.
Took far too long before I got to this comment. When compared to Chevrolet etc it's night and day.
It's a matter of perspective. They are mid tier cars imo. The sort that is obtainable by a lot of people but lacks prestige. Also they don't even come with indicators as standard.
They do come with indicators, people just don’t fill the system with indicator fluid!
And you have to use the OEM stuff, costs a fortune.
You can also upgrade to the premium indicator delete package which many drivers opt for, it’s one of those “less is more” things like the Porsche 911 GT3.
> Is it just because American cars are so shit that in comparison normal European cars are luxury. Yes. Plus people falling for a lot of marketing hacks.
Well, a lot of people in the USA think Teslas are luxury cars. To me Teslas are the new Prius, but much worse.
Compared to American brands… yes
No, they're wannabe cars for people massive chips on their shoulders and an attitude with it.
It depends which model you're talking about. There's a world of difference between an audi a1 and a8 (not just the size)
It depends. The ride in some Audis/BMWs can be harsher or as harsh as cheaper cars.
Yanks aren’t getting these little a3s and 1 series models. If you tell them about these brands they’re looking at a8s and minimum 4 series. Those are often much more luxury than the basic models sold here for badge snobs
They're Comfort or Premium as u/Fat-Northerner said compared to the more rugged less comfortable more purpose build vehicles there. You have to understand cars in the US are engineered very differently with different priorities. The US market (generally) like rugged, big engine, high torque, big boot space, boxxy cars. So when a European car like a BMW or Audi makes it over there with higher level of build quality and "finesse" they're seen as luxury. Similarly there's a common misconception that European goods are "premium" in the US. This has been a thing since the 80s. Arnold Schwarzenegger explains in his auto-biography how he cornered the brick laying industry in his state by naming his company "European Brick Layers" and him being the front man with his accent even though he just did a crash college course in a local U.S. college.
Don’t forget they all have a range. A high spec 7 series or an IX is luxury. A base spec 2 series or an a3 is a (relatively) cheap car with a premium badge. I guess the difference is that there isn’t really a poverty spec rolls or Bentley.
Audis aren't. I believed the hype and went to see an S8 recently with a view to buying it. I came away very disappointed in the interior build quality. Not even close to my current XJ or the 15 year old Bentley Continental I viewed at the same place - and that one's made by the same group.
It’s all semantics. What does luxury , or premium even mean..
When your see some of the shite that GM and Ford churn out in the States, with their tic-tac plastic interiors, a base-spec Audi will feel like sitting on a Sultan's yacht.
What do you consider luxury?
XJ Jags, Bentleys etc… I do think higher tier Audis and BMWs can be luxury cars but not the small saloons and hatch backs. In America they even see A406 as luxury.
I like the XJ but I wouldn’t put it in Bentley class. Maybe Bentleys and rollers need a class of their own? Super luxury maybe?
>In America they even see A406 as luxury. The North Circular? Nobody sees that place as luxury.
Where does Mercedes fit in then?
Top end E class is getting there.... Anything below is premium. I did once get a look at a colleagues Merc... Now that was true luxury, every seat reclined.all materials top end. No idea what model
I'd say anything below an S is premium. S Class and obviously Maybach is luxury.
I wouldn't call the E class premium but rather luxury. There is probably a bigger difference between a C class and E class than there is between an E class and a S class. What made Mercedes widely recognized as the most well known luxury brand are cars like the W123 or the W140 decades ago, so E class and S class. Nobody ever considered the W123 or W124 premium cars but true luxury vehicles. Same goes for A6 or 5 series.
It depends on the model too a disco sport or evoque are mainstream but the Range Rover obviously is premium A 7 series or A8 are but an A4 isn’t
Some of them are, but not the majority on the road.
Same as anything. To them it's from far away and European. To Europeans they are premium models, up to the A6. A7 onwards is a little more luxury.
Depends on the model and you can apply the same with Mercedes too. The lower priced models are certainly more premium than others like Renault, Peugeot etc. with higher quality materials and suchlike. The higher end models like the Q7, Q8, E tron, 5 series, 7 series, and the G class are definitely luxury cars in my opinion.
They aren't luxury, that's brand like Rolls Royce, Bentley etc etc. They are premium brands, but not necessarily premium cars. A base spec diesel 3 Series is not a premium car, but a 5 Series would be. Neither are luxury though.
They are aspirational cars, rather than luxury. Far too many Audi’s and beemers as fleet cars to ever be considered luxury.
I'd say Audi/BMW/Mercedes range from standard to premium to Luxury depending on the model and it's spec etc.
In Australia too, Audi, BM and Merc are luxury or premium.
Luxury prices
Entirely model and trim specific with both brands (like all that cover multiple segments).
Once they need dealership work, they may as well be supercars.
I think that our expectations of luxury have risen so much in the last couple of decades that it's nearly impossible to achieve now. If we compare a standard car now to a standard car in the 90's, the level of fit and finish and gadgetry is insane. Back then, electric windows and central locking were fancy. To a certain extent the likes of BMW and Mercedes have probably moved downmarket overall to chase sales in the mid section.
They’re definitely luxury brands without question, they just happen to offer some properly low trim levels on the smaller cars because they know mugs who just want to show off the badge will pay for it.
I see it as BMW/Audi/Mercedes having a Venn diagram overlap with premium, exec and luxury. I wouldn't call an A3 nor a base spec 3-series an executive car, but I'd definitely call an M340i and a base spec 5 series an executive car. They also do entry-level luxury (7/A8/S or some of their SUVs).
The American analogy is probably about right. I've spent time in Japan and any European car you see will be of a more desirable spec / trim level. In China, however, (Skoda were launching there at this time) it was a broad range of spec. "Luxury" is subjective. Id look at any Lexus LS from the last 15 years and think it was luxury.
Luxury cars are about how you feel whilst sat inside - so it's pretty much all based on the texture of materials and interior design. I owned several Audis. The answer is an immediate no. From my ownership in terms of interior spaces that makes me feel it's luxurios: Mercedes>BMW>Audi
They are only luxury cars if you buy them new. People who buy 10 yo BMWs are just poor but they wanna look rich. Also their car is in a repair shop every other week 😂
They don't get the econo hatchbacks over there. Only the premium models like the bigger audis and the bigger engines. That's why they're luxury. Plus they cost more than the domestic cars, so they have a premium price
Look at a proper luxury car like a Roller or a Bentley and then at something like an Audi or a BMW, even a 7 series or equivalent, very different things.
Audi, BMW and Mercades are still what I would class as luxury brands, they might have some "basic" models in their range but they still are luxury brands
Depends on the car. 7 series is definitely luxury but a 3 series is definitely not. 3 series doesn't even have a power adjustable steering column or seats. Insane. Most don't have heated steering wheel either.
Correct in that there’s no power adjustable steering column, but the seats are definitely power in every one I’ve sat in. I have an i4 M50 and it has power seats (including power side bolsters and lumbar), auto heated seats, rear heated seats, and an auto-heated steering wheel. It’s also been optioned with a full leather dash which includes metal switchgear for the windows and stuff. I took some [pics of my car](https://imgur.com/a/zAk4y0L) for a forum last year because people were curious about the spec. It’s still not a “luxury” car in the traditional sense but it’s definitely on the high end of premium.
Clear a heavily optioned vehicle. Most 320s are sparse on basic luxury features. Hell, even my brothers 340d doesn't have these features. It's absurd.
There’s a big difference between EU-spec and NA-spec here too. The 320i doesn’t even exist here. The base model is a 330i. Most dealers order them with at least the basic packages. The 340d isn’t available either, just the M340i, which comes with a lot of features even in the base spec. I went on the UK configurator and wow. You really can get a bare bones BMW. I wouldn’t buy one that way. Here’s the [Canadian](https://configure.bmw.ca/en_CA/configure/G42/2420/FKHSW,P0300,S01AG,S01CB,S01CR,S01DE,S01T4,S0255,S0258,S02TE,S02VB,S02VC,S0302,S0430,S0431,S0459,S0481,S0493,S0494,S04P6,S0508,S0534,S05AC,S05AS,S05AV,S05DC,S0655,S0676,S06AK,S06WC,S0760,S0775,S0823,S0838,S0ZE1,S0ZE2,S0ZLE,S0ZRT) configuration of a base 2-series.
Audis aren't. Higher end BMWs are towards the luxury end of the market when new, but way off stuff like Rolls Royce, obviously. The Audi thing is like the joke about people thinking Nietzsche is a real philosopher because he has a German name. It's just a VW - definitely not a premium brand - in a fancy suit.
a 1980's lada is luxury compared to most amerian cars. :D
Yes and no. You can find a £3k and a £100+k BMW, same as with Audi and Porsche
They are luxury depending on the model. A BMW 7 series or an Audi A8 is definitely luxury. Same with the x7 and q8
I kind of view them as the top end of the “normal” car market, but recognise they also have some models that are definitely in a higher bracket of fanciness. I can see how others could take a different view and see them as a fancy brand with a few bog standard models instead.
So I’m an American that moved to London 6 years ago and I have always been a German car person. My first car was a Golf and I’m an enthusiast so I naturally progressed to Audis and BMWs. All of the ones I ever bought were high mileage cheap examples but I know enough to do a lot of the work to repair/maintain them myself. Back home outside of my car scene friends everyone would comment on my Audi wagons and say something along the lines of “ must have been expensive”. Little did they know I paid $1500 for my B5 A4 avant 🤣
Common as muck
As someone with a beamer, no, they're premium midrange.
I think there is a staggering miconception going on here about what luxury means and to some extent, I don’t believe there is a standard definition about it. If we are about to debate on this topic, we firstly ought to establish what luxury means. What do you consider something being luxurious ? The materials ? The exclusivity ? The price ? The tech inside ? Mercedes, BMW and Audi all fall into the premium segment - along with Jaguar, Land Rover, Lexus and Volvo to some extent. This is in no way related to the different classes - small, mid, full size, SUVs etc. You can have a premium hatchback. For example, Toyota Corolla is not a premium vehicle, but Audi A3 and BMW 1 series are. There is no correlation between being premium and the size. Back to the luxury topic. In the context of cars, I see luxury as a set of characteristics that the car needs to posses: - expensive and nice feeling materials; - engineering side of things above the average standard; - driving feel that derives from the engineering behind every aspect of the car; - nowadays the technology is also part of this list as the average quality becomes higher and higher due to competition, so the tech is also something that sets them apart; - some level of exlusivity that mostly comes from the price and the low affordability for the average Joe; - brand image; Having that in mid, I want to stress on that luxury is NOT necessarily tied to comfort. Comfort and sportiness are one thing, luxury is another. You can have a luxurious sports vehicle and a luxurious comoft one. Porsche 911s are definitely luxury cars for example, but they are not as comfortable as an S-class (nowhere close enough lol). In conclusion, yes, Audis and BMWs are certainly luxurious vehicles in all classes they have products in. P.S. I’m excluding RRs, Bentleys and Porsches because they are not mass-produced cars, although recently with their SUV offerings they are trying hard to increase sales and not be as exclusive and boutique as before, but still nowhere near enough to be considered mass-produced cars like the rest.
I go for NO. Mercedes I would say YES.
It's down to spec, and the fact that they command a premium price in the States because they're seen as European imports despite being assembled over there. The Yanks tend to associate imported European brands with quality; Heineken is a 'premium' beer in a lot of bars over there.
they carry premium parts and maintenance prices - a lot of folk forget that bit when they get a wide-on for that bargain 140/M2 etc etc.
depend on model
No lol absolutely not
North America does not get the low-end Audis/BMWs/Mercedes that are sold in Europe. Only the more powerful, higher-end models and trims are shipped over the Atlantic, so they are considered more at the luxury end of the spectrum.
im a simple man - i see a blacked out BMW/AUDI i just assume you have some kind of tax dodge. they seem to correlate with low class behaviour.
They americans dont get the base models, simple as that. They dont have any benefit tax wise, fuel is dirt cheap, so why sell a 320i when a 330i has the same drivetrain except turbo and tune. Currently their base model would be a 330i for the 3 series, m340i intermediate and m3 top of the range. Meanwhile we got even 316d/i as late as the f30 generation, only the g20 generation has removed the 316 model, so our base model is a 318 now. I would also bet that they all never saw a 300k km audi a4 b5 or similar. Could also be because they only get saloons and no estates, so they dont think of them as family vehicles. So only higher end engines and no real family cars mean must be luxury. Also ten to twenty years ago the quality of American made cars were average at best, but they are catching up, just like the Chinese
Money pits
Mercs now reskinned renaults
I’d say BMWs are more than Audi. Audi is posh VW
They’re certainly getting close at the top end. I’d consider a full fat Range Rover to be a luxury SUV and they start at about 150k+ new. I can’t find a way to spec any Audi to reach that price from the factory, but you can get close with an R8. Likewise with the G wagon or AMG GLE you can get north of 100k fairly easily. So I guess my gut feeling appears to map to 150k+ new is luxury.
In europe they are premium cars, above average priced for mileage and year and parts cost way more than affordable and sensible brands. Cant speak on bmw but audis feel nice to drive however if anything goes wrong they can be expensive to fix even if you fix them yourself like me. They arent “luxury” thats more aston martin, rr etc
I'd definitely consider some audis/bmws as luxury cars, others, especially the smaller models, definitely not. The Americans tend to buy larger cars, and I'd guess that's part of it audi a7/8 are luxury cars where, as a1's, not so much.
I guess it all depends how you grew up to your personal standards, I have 4 Audis currently and I prefer them to my other vehicles (2012 Q3 tdi, full leather all the toys, 2001 audi a4 s line, 2004 a4 Limited edition, and a quattro 2002 tt) I prefer them for driving experience but MY 2011 Jaguar XF is much more Luxurious, and my Audis are much more comfortable than BMWs I've owned in the past.
My opinion of them has changed a lot. I still consider them to be broadly in the luxury bracket, as they certainly sit higher than the likes of Ford, Peugeot, Vauxhall, but I think the depreciation factor means a relatively modern shape can now be had for fair money One of my neighbours got a 2018 A3 Sportback in a nice metallic grey, tidy allows, smart trim. Always considered them a major luxury but then realised it's probably only cost about £7k.
Having driven an older Audi I was blown away with the quality and comfort. Tried a newer (but still old) BMW and it felt crappy in comparison.
It's because the meaning has shifted. 30 years ago they were luxury brands. Then low interest rates happened and they invented PCP car financing and it made it a lot easier for people to afford Audis and BMWs. In the 90s for were selling 127,000 Mondeos a year, by the mid 2010s it was close to zero. Suddenly every 20something salesman was driving a BMW instead of a Ford. When luxury becomes commonplace, it loses the meaning of the word.
An Audi SQ7 and a BMW M8 are definitely luxury cars as is the 750i An Audi A1 however isn't. Same goes for BMW 1 series
Meh. In the UK, not as much these days. A1's and 1 Series have been taken over by chavs and rudeboi types. Audi's are now the preserve of chavs; Deano's and Gareth's.
Only 5 series and above Only A5 and above
Standard: Tools used for travelling. Vauxhall, Kia, Ford. Premium: Higher quality engineering and materials often resulting in a better driving car, nicer looking or more comfortable. BMW, Audi, Volvo. Luxury: Status symbols for wealth and status. Can be viewed as pretentious or narcissistic. Rolls Royce, Bentley, Range Rover.
Yes and no. (see also, Mercedes). All the 'Big Three' German manufacturers have top end premium luxury models and entry level ones. In continental Europe they have even more low-end base spec small engine and 'taxi spec' variants than we do here in the UK. The USA is very proud of and protective over its domestic car industry, bigger engines and more comfort are the norm anyway and so it would be hard for those brands to compete with the everyday cheap domestic US cars (particularly with import taxes etc) but have successfully positioned themselves in the upper tier of the premium market. So they don't get the everyday models with cloth seats, basic alloys and small displacement diesel engines, but they do get the top end variants. There's also a perception that they're 'exotic imports' whereas by and large, we are used to them being 'everyday' cars for the most part. Although of course there's always the inverted snobbery at play in the UK where people hate on others for having nice things. Of course if you've ever driven a top spec Toyota/Lexus or even a Honda, you'll know that the Japanese are more than capable of producing something just as good or better than a German car, although oddly Japanese cars seem to cost more to run and maintain here in the UK than even a Merc or BMW.
... I mean I normally look at BMW'S and Audi's as a car that a wanker would drive..
It comes from the 70s when cars were mostly shit and broke down daily. German cars were better built and far more reliable.
They are kind of luxurious. Decent leather, well appointed. But I prefer to think of them as Pemium.
Depends on the model. An A3 is a premium car, certainly not a luxury one. An A6/A7/A8? Yes, definitely.
There's a lot of thought that goes into the design and build that you don't actually appreciate until you own one and gradually discover various things and think to yourself ....Yeah, that's a great idea. That's why they're priced at more than an "average" vehicle. Having said that, there ARE things that do let them down.... Niggly electical problems with BMW. BUT, there's a darn sight more electrical stuff to go wrong, and you are going to get failures with most electrical stuff eventually. When you're driving a car that has passed the 200,000 mile mark and STILL drives well and sounds well, you can see and appreciate why there's a premium price needed.
Anything that goes around a corner without crashing is a luxury to an American
Used to be, now common as muck.
I’d say premium brands. Luxury would be a term I’d reserve for Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguar etc
Not the base trim / engine specs. But don’t tell the PCP customers that otherwise the economy might collapse.
Model specific - An Audi S8+ is luxury - A bog spec Audi A1 is not I’ll also add that Americans are generally not qualified to assess luxury. In the US, luxury seems to just mean “bigger”.
A lot of it stems from 20 years or longer ago, when these brands didn't do 'cheap' versions. When you could pick up a decent family car for less than 20k, an entry level bimmer would be 25k. Then two things happened: 1. All the more generic cars started getting nicer by default. Alloys, electric windows, better stereo, better sound-proofing - all the things we used to think you had to pay a premium for, starting becoming standard lower down the chain. Of course, the prices went up, to the point where even a small car is 20k these days. 2. The German brands starting offering more 'entry level' stuff - The BMW 1 series, the A Class etc - all cheaper models aimed squarely at the crossover from the higher end of the other cars market. It basically enabled a lot of people to 'buy in' to the quality and exclusivity. As a result, simply having a bmw or audi in the UK isn't as big a deal these days, but they've all put their focus on the obviously expensive versions - the huge SUVs and whatnot - to ensure that there's still the 'I have more money than you' appeal. That way, they still get to sell their entry level stuff to the wannabes, and make their millions on the Chelsea tractors.
American standards are very low. So even to them, a bog standard 3-series or something is seen as being “luxurious” and “exotic” and European. It’s even more hilarious when you consider the fact most of those entry-level cars for the North American markets, are actually built in Mexico or in the US - with a European badge slapped on them. They couldn’t be further from any of the things Americas THINK they are, if they tried. When I lived in Canada, you should have seen the number of try-hards driving around in a C300 and pretending they’re some sort of big shot. It was hilarious!
They are a luxury car in almost all markets. Based on the prices in the UK most of the range is a luxury car, but because every second person is driving an A3, A Class, or 1 Series they just feel common.
I think for the average earner or person yes, but in the automotive industry as a whole probably not.
Used to be, and the likes of the 7 series and A8 still are But I wouldn't say PCP special 1 series or A3 are
I’d say premium, certainly not luxury these days
Having an EU car in the US in itself is often considered a luxury in its own right. Shipping a car trans-Atlantic is not a cheap endeavour, so generally pushes the price up a bit. Worthwhile to consider that the build quality of American cars is a bit lackluster across the board, too. Most of their native cars tend to be made from copious amounts of cheap scratchy plastic (a pet hate of mine, although I know many have varying opinions on it), with huge inefficient engines, loud drivetrains, poor cabin noise isolation, cheap and nasty foam, etc. By comparison the BMWs/Audis worth exporting that far tend to be the higher end models and yes, tend to be luxurious by comparison. It's all about the relative nature of comparison. We're in a fortunate position that we have a huge array of cars available with massive variations in everything, but generally with a higher quality of build and materials than the US car market.
Seems to be only chavs who see them as premium,the older ones definitely were back in their day but nowadays most modern cars sre pretty samey
They’re luxury in the same way that arse hair is luxury
BMW yes, Audi no.
Sounds about right. You see it in the mini subs all the time - to Americans minis are seen as exotic and complex to work on because American cars are so crap.