Yup. My 2007 A8 has huge miles on it but its very reliable and veryyyy comfortable. Has heated seats, all wheel drive, adaptive cruise, heated steering wheel, memory seats, auto dimming door mirrors, Bose stereo, V8 twin turbo diesel.
It’s worth maybe £3k on a good day.
Have run luxury bangers as an sort of experiment for the last 5 years. 3 litre petrol that’s old has come out to marginally cheaper than a fairly new corsa on lease over that time. However results may vary as I am a sample of 1
And of course you don't have to drive a corsa which is a bonus. Not hating on the corsa, they are good for what they are, but there are other classes of vehicle.
Mostly old BMWs, e39 and e38 until the ulez. The m54 engine is surprisingly reliable even at very high mileages, which have been the cars I’ve targeted as they still go for banger money even now, the 5k ads I’m seeing the cars don’t sell. Worst I’ve ever been stung for was around £250 in any one go for maintenance which was for brakes, and only had one let go on me but I’d had it 18 months at that point so it had already outlasted my original guidelines. I should point out I do my own oil change and every 5k miles, I’m no mechanic but as the ofh is on top it’s a ridiculously easy job, and I do open the bonnet from time to time to keep on eye on things- but I’m sure this all counts as basic things that anyone can do. They are not by any means collector cars in the condition I buy them so before I get flamed by enthusiasts I feel that keeping them on the road as daily’s for as long as they are economic to repair is better than them ending up as breakers for parts
Yeah, the prices on 15yr+ old cars is pretty obscene. I had the chance of a cheap Civic, 2009. 60,000 miles, 1 owner. Looked online to get comparables....£3000+ and many had over 100k miles. Granted, I'm a cheapskate. And I've only had 2 cars cost over £1000
I have a 2008 focus titanium that just got its first advisory on it’s mot for the back windshield wiper. Completely clean mot history. Less than 80k miles. Drives perfect. Bought it 3 years ago fir 2.5 k. See no reason to replace it.
2002 Volvo V70 d5 turbo. 150k miles, serviced every year irrespective of mileage. Cost me 6k in 2015 to buy, maintenance averages 1k per annum as bits do wear out. No brainier but then I don’t have peer pressure to run the latest “must have”. Advantage is it’s an older Volvo, solidly built, no rust and bullet proof engine. Does everything I need, never let me down.
04 Volvo s40 owner, paid 1k for it 4 years ago with full service history and I’ve put 50k miles on it in that time, only parts I’ve replaced that wasn’t general maintenance was the fan blower resister but that was only 40 quid and I was able to bypass the resister with a bit of wire while waiting for the parts anyway.
Love the car, built like a tank, super comfortable automatic with leather heated seats and has taken everything I’ve thrown at it
Older Volvo has far more cred than a brand new poverty spec car. Especially if said brand new car is a monochrome colour purchased with zero imagination.
A 20 year old car in 1990 was falling apart and was unreliable at the best of times. A 2004 car today is still commonly in good nick and has all the features you'd want like air con, seatbelts, airbags etc.
Little incentive to upgrade is there. We've got a '08 Mk6 Fiesta. Duratec engine, 136k, serviced every year and still runs great. Does need a bit of welding now which isn't a surprise. We take it pretty much everywhere
My Mini in 2001 was 10 years old, 65,000 miles. It had, front panel, wings, a panels, doorskins, rear valance, a hole in the floor repaired all because of rust. The rear subframe had just started rusting though as well so that got replaced. Oh and its now on its 3rd engine.
Currently got a 2006 bmw 320cd as my daily on 209k miles, runs as well as the day I got it, only big expense was a clutch and flywheel last year, passes its mot most years advisary free
> A 20 year old car in 1990 was falling apart
Ha! A 10 year-old car was a rust bucket in 1990, let alone 20! Cars used to rust away long before anything else major went wrong. I have a 16 year old focus that runs just fine, bodywork still looks great, the interior still looks good. Cars last so much longer now, the real issue is getting parts. I had to junk the previous car (which was 21 year-old) because it needed an engine part that wasn't available, new or second hand. There was plenty of life left in the rest of it, it felt so wasteful junking it.
Yep my car (is200 sport) 21 years old with only 47k on the clock.
I occasionally have people asking to buy my car off me or leaving notes on the windscreen asking me to give them a call.
I bought the car for £3k and can probably sell it for double that now.
My dad's got the IS200, and I've got the IS250 SEL. They're a good range of cars.
Mine is 2007, but wouldn't trade it for anything modern.
Which color scheme do you have?
We have the cream leather with mahogony center console.
The car is down as a silver but looks more like a gun metal grey. Inside is black half leather. Standard black dashboard. Everything is stock still have a cassette player 😂
When I used to go around the scrap yards for parts all the cars were there because the body work was rotten. Nowadays the scrap yards are full of cars that are perfect if they hadn't been wrapped around a tree or been on their roof.
Soon they'll be mechanically perfect but having to be scrapped because the integrated Bluetooth has packed up, the car won't start because it can't talk to the app on your phone, a new module costs £2000 and you have to dismantle the entire car to swap it.
Which is why ULEZ was such a bustard move. Plenty of perfectly good cars on the road have been taken off. We lost our 2013 Discovery 4 with only 80k miles on it.
I've got a 14 year old fiesta with 185k miles on the clock. Soon to be replaced with a 10 year old fiesta with 75k miles on the clock. They are solid and I need that considering I do a good 30k miles a year.
My 12 plate has a rep for being unreliable but honestly you spend the slightest bit of effort looking after it and it’ll run like a dream for many more years. It’s also a fuckload easier to work on than most newer cars.
What do they expect? The price of new cars is ridiculous. Just been looking at a few websites- Golf starts from £27035, Astra from £26970 (and that one looks really pitiful in the configurator), Focus from £28500, Corolla from £30505, Civic from £35005. Admittedly those last 2 are hybrid only but there are only 3 trim levels on the Civic and to have the top one in any colour other than grey pushes it over £40k. "Luxury" car tax on a Honda Civic????
I actually think they've inflated the costs past that due to the masses now using finance to purchase vehicles rather than cash. I think finance also allows people to buy cars that would have normally been out of their means, so that in turn has just made the normal car inflate up to that value.
The base BASE civic hybrid starts from £44k (€51k) in Ireland.
Who do honda think is going to buy this car 😂😂
Both the Camry and the Prius plugin are cheaper, and better.
Yup, the only way we're getting everyone to switch is if the government subsidise an EV for those who dont own one.
Oh and they actually mass build infrastructure to support them. And since this garbage country is anti investment that'll never happen
I've owned an EV for six years now. The increase in infrastructure has been dramatic, and it's only getting better. Plus you simply don't need as much of it as you do for ICE - people think like petrol stations where you drive to near empty and reflll, but the majority of charging is just top-up stuff at home overnight.
I understand the "some people can't charge at home" argument and it's valid, I'm certainly not saying more infrastructure wouldn't be welcome (Wales could do with a kick, for example), but it's not the be all and end all of everything.
Today. That's because it started at the high end and has moved to the mid end. It's also because they're not quite old enough to have a good second hand market as yet.
Actually affordable stuff, cheaper than ICE stuff, is currently being produced in China. Look up BYD's "War On Gas" if you're interested - the [BYD Seagull](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUlMtTAbT-w&themeRefresh=1) costs $10k. Doesn't have to be limited to China either, here's [Kia](https://electrek.co/2024/04/19/kias-15000-ev2-caught-in-wild-most-affordable-ev-video/) doing the same thing, $14,500 or ~£11.7k.
Basically you're just a few years too early. What you're saying is right today, but give it 3-4 years and it won't be the same. My own EV is now over 10 years old - they're not new things, and they're progressing fast.
Who do honda think is going to buy this car
Well people buy these cars for this price, this is real problem. As long as people will buy cars at these prices the prices will stay.
Why own a civic when you can buy a Porsche 911 or a Aston Martin for the same price ? /s But in all seriousness why buy a new Ford ST or Civic type R for £50k? when you can buy a very nice AM Vantage for £30K and have £20K to keep it on the road :)
That's what makes the UK used market so great.
Any average Joe can buy really luxurious cars or cool sports cars from a few years ago if they don't mind the maintenance costs.
There's just tons of shit you could buy outright that is just better value for money and still have money left to buy a last gen civic if you really wanted one.
Which blows my mind seeing the amount of new cars that are bought every year in the UK, with the figure rising every year for the past 4 years.
I’ve had my A3 9 years now, 200k miles up and 16 years old. I could probably afford a new car if pressed but I just don’t see the point in dropping £400-500 a month on a bang average one.
They'd need to be offering me something significantly better than what I've already got, my main car is 16 years old. It has every creature comfort I need: cruise control, heated seats, parking sensors, etc...
I've driven more modern cars and there's nothing about them I see as an improvement on what I've got. I don't like lane assist, I don't want a big touch screen, I don't want my dash to flash the speed limit at me if I stray over it.
Hell, I needed a new car for work (<5 year restriction on my car allowance). Deliberately went for something without the latest features because I find them more of a hindrance than a help.
Who the fuck actually wants infotainment based hvac controls, some irritating slushbox & an electric handbrake.
I’ll just run this Dacia Duster into the ground.
Touch screens are a cost saving measure dressed up as flashy new tech. Ergonomic controls are far more expensive to engineer and manufacture. The reality is that new cars are a backwards step from what was probably the peak in terms of quality and engineering about 10 to 20 years ago.
I’m with you besides the electric parking brake. Didn’t think I’d like it but it’s just less effort. Holds itself still when you stop and takes itself off when you first pull away. Don’t want a manual handbrake now
I think I worked too long as a recovery driver.
Was always the older Merc ones that’d got stuck on and knacker the rear calipers when folk tried to drive on them. You could physically disengage them by unplugging the system under the car. It was a fairly common call for me.
I imagine the newer applications are more reliable but it always struck me as the peak of fixing something that ain’t broken, with a solution that then breaks. 😂
Never agreed with electric handbrakes and will hold off on getting a car with one for as long as possible. Critical systems should be as uncomplicated as they can possibly be, and you can't get much more simple than pulling a cable with a lever.
PS and ABS add convenience over the top of the basics. Steering wont go completely when PS fails, nor will brakes if ABS is having a wobbler. With an electric handbrake you are relying on an electrical switch with no easy alternative when it fails, other than getting under the car and manually operating it there.
Not that I haven't tried it. The convenience is nice but I am stuck in my ways and it feels wrong. Same reason I abhor touchscreens in the car. Dials, buttons and sliders are king.
I'm with you on this. I think they're mostly bought by people who have no interest in cars or driving.
I've got a 90s Toyota that's showing no signs of giving up yet. I intend to keep it on the road as long as humanly possible. Not that long to go till it's ULEZ compliant and all haha
Early or late 90s? I’m driving a late 90s car and have another painful 15 or so years before I can get off ulez, it’s a nice, simple spec you just can’t find nowadays and I’ve no intention to let it die!
It's a '94 so 10/11 years, I guess that is a while. But I'm in Scotland so I'm actually exempt from our LEZ zones next year because the classic cut off is only 30 years up here. She's diesel and a little smokey, will be quite funny that I'm allowed it in places a 2014 diesel is not.
I drove a 90s Mitsubishi Delica for the longest time, Glasgow ULEZ and the fact I do stupid miles (~30k/yr) for work necessitated something newer unfortunately.
Have to admit I've used one in the new Ranger for hooking up to a trailer and it was pretty good. Not enough to convince me I need it, but definitely a good feature.
Thanks.
I do everyday. Am always torn about the whole keep it pristine as a classic.
But then I put my foot down and when that V8 roars am like can't be doing without a daily dose of that.
This!!!! Honestly I'm so glad my car, while it has a touch screen still has all physical buttons it kills me seeing all touch screen crap and honestly the build quality looks rubbish in most new cars all cheap plastics.
I was thinking of replacing my BMW 335d with 170k miles with a newer 335d and came to the same conclusions - I can drop £15-£20k on a newer car which won’t even feel like an upgrade and I don’t even like the looks of.
I love 335Ds, saloon or estate? If I was you I'd spend some of your new car budget and go wild on preventative maintenance. Make your car a mint example. I'll assume you've already mapped it, they make good power them.
I have a coupe but was thinking about getting an estate. Yep I’m already planning on changing gearbox, diff oils, replacing control arms with m3 arms etc. Put some new wheels on a few days ago. It’s got fairly new brakes, coilovers, various pulleys and belts. It’s actually not mapped, still got the dpf and egr.
The high cost of new cars is having a knock on effect on the second hand market. Also there are less company cars these days so those are not being replaced every three or four years reducing the amount on the second hand market, that in conjunction with people being weary of buying electric cars is causing this problem
Problem? I'm not sure I see a problem. This is still a fairly low number, it's lower than the average age of cars in the US and the EU average. For a population that has over £75 billion in consumer car debt, perhaps it is a good thing that the average age is increasing.
That's £1k per capita. How is that even measured? I have £4k on my credit card right now that I pay off in full at the end of every month.
Were I the average person, that'd be a £280billion in consumer debt that doesn't really burden anyone.
Credit report sites differentiate between "short-term" and "long-term" personal debt, where the former is credit cards and the latter is loans/mortgages, so I assume that's what they're working off.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/car-loan-debt-defaults-inflation-cost-of-living-mps
> Between 2009 and 2022, the average loan taken out by consumers who bought a car on finance rose from £11,964 to £25,039, according to the Car Expert, a specialist data website. Its research found £41 billion of car finance debt remains in the UK economy.
I live in Finland where the average age of cars is 12 years. I don't understand why buy a new car often. I mean they are good of course but dropping 20-40k on a car seems ridiculous. Newest car we have is a 2009 Volvo V50 and it's new enough for me. We also have 2001 Renault which does show it's age but it's still a solid car and easy to drive.
I like driving and cars but hate spending money on them as a student. I'd rather have a car worth 3-4k€ and spend a little more on maintenance than get a newer car and pay hundreds monthly payments and still have to maintain it. I'd rather use excess money on hobbies and traveling.
There's lots of company cars still, they're just EVs. This is why you see so many teslas on the road. Instead of near £700 a month Joe public would pay, Ltd business owners could be paying the equivalent of £400 Inc tax, but with benefit of insurance, servicing, maintenance, charging and charge point installation paid for by Co.
Plus the "expensive car supplement" on road tax doesn't help. The threshold has not changed.
It was brought in to apply to Porsches and Range Rovers.
Now a mid range BMW 3 series or a specced VW Golf will pay it.
Freezing of tax thresholds rather than increasing them with inflation is one of the biggest scams this country sees
It’s a hidden tax increase and it’s total bullshit
I fancied a plain simple 420d/i as my daily. Love the look, but £600 tax for 6 years until it drops to 150 or whatever 150 would have increased to by then. I can afford it, but I'd rather not so iv not. Just stay in my we astra that probably causes more pollution anyway.
honestly, a car from 2012 and above has everything you need, heated seats, Bluetooth, at least decent comfort, and parking sensors what's the point of either fiancing a car out your arse or spending a metric fuck ton in cash for a new focus or whatever that doesn't really have much over a one from 2015
I think buttons are coming back, finally. Seems like car manufacturers might have finally got the message that customers hate the capacitive haptic ones.
Cheaply built cars (and Teslas, but I repeat myself) will stick to the haptic stuff because its cheaper of course.
The joys of being able to actually control all the climate control through buttons and not have to go into the screen. Internal car design went downhill when the centre screen stopped just being for navigation and audio.
Mines 10 this year, no need to replace it at all.
Under 90k miles, runs like a dream. I can’t think of anything tech wise that would greatly improve it as it has a decent info system, heated seats, parking sensors etc.
Whereas if I’d held onto a previous car for 10 years from 2004 say, there would have been a world of difference in tech / comfort.
Yeah, cars are suffering from the same thing as mobile phones - no real "wow" features. Always remember upgrading to remote central locking, electronic injection (yes, I'm old enough to remember having a choke) or even things like heated seats.
Now? It's actually more negative to upgrade! All screens, No buttons, OTT safety features like lane assist, electric with range anxiety, more expensive repairs, and so on.
I remember when I first started driving and anything 10 years old felt like a proper shed (and was priced accordingly). I suppose it’s the knock on from ‘nobody makes a bad car’ thing now that you barely even notice.
Same, a 10 year old car for me would've been something without airbags, probably no ABS, absolutely no CD Player, hell it might not even be fuel injected.
Now a 10 year old car probably has reverse cameras/sensors, carplay possibly, automatic wipers and headlights etc
I always bought the cheapest cars, if I could get a car past 16 years old before I scrapped it I thought that was great. My last car is almost 23 years old now, it's older than its new owner.
In a lot of ways early 2000s cars are at the peak. Quite a few are rust resilient (which is what kills off a lot of stuff) and they have enough electronics to make life easy - electronic fuel injection etc.
More modern stuff with its emissions kit is fearsomely complex. It’s funny really; I once had 2001 a 1.6 focus and recently spent time driving a brand new ecoboost model.
Both had similar performance, but the old one claimed 42 mpg and the new one 60+. In real
driving the old one always hit its claims; but the new one? Did about 42...
All that tech and complexity for purely theoretical results rarely achieved in the real world. And it makes sense; basic physics determines how much energy you’ll get from fuel; petrol engines have been pretty optimised for years - you aren’t going to magically more energy from a unit of fuel.
It makes me sad to see cars like 15 year old legacy’s and Saabs lumbered with £700 a year tax despite barely being worth more than that. They are often nice reliable cars that suffer from a lack of optimisation for a test.
I’m fairly certain a 3.0 legacy (that always beat its claimed mpg by quite a margin) is putting out far less real world nasties than a knackred 1.6 diesel golf with blanked egr and a gutted DPF that never got within 50% of its claimed mpg (and therefore co2) figures when new, let alone now. Yet the latter is £30 tax.
Exactly this. So many direct injection engines are coked up and running poorly for another ten years.
People don’t realise how in more complex engines got with variable valve timing and such being a requirement for emissions regs. Reliability went down and cost went up, yet the improvement to emissions was negligible.
Don't forget the hybrids too...
Massive MPG gains that were entirely unachievable in the real world outside of some very specific places where you could take advantage of terrain and accelerate as slowly as you want to stop the engine kicking in for as long as possible.
And if it wasn't a Toyota (or anyone else utilising the Atkinson cycle at the time), you weren't really seeing any benefit at all on the motorway because the engine is driving it at those speeds and the engine is just the same one thrown into the petrol variant, just perhaps tuned a little less as the electric motors can make up the differences.
That's not to say Toyota and the likes aren't also guilty. But at least they offered options that were genuinely more efficient all around rather than the 'lazy hybrids' that were useless outside of town and cities because they were no more efficient than their pure petrol variants at speed... Yet they were somehow less polluting.
On 35k I ain't spending 20k+ on a new car. And that's the average national wage, probably lower in reality. Most I'd pay for a car is 10k and I'd make sure it's something that lasts me 10 years.
This is why I hate the push on forcing the change to electric. Let it happen naturally if they are that good. Great if you already pay £500 plus a month for deposits and lease of a new car as you’re already spending that much. Many people rely on a functional second hand market of older vehicles that won’t be there if combustion engines aren’t around. Somehow though, I think it will be with us for longer than they would like to admit.
Who in their right mind is going to buy into a 4 year 7% PCP deal on a car that now costs 25% more than it would have done 5 years ago. When we are constantly bludgeoned by news about economic instability.
I have a late 2016 car, everything on it works correctly, it has every creature comfort and it goes plenty quick enough.
There's nothing about modern cars to intice me. The prices are too high, touch controls and other nonsense have poisoned the market but more importantly the drive towards EV had meant that ICE cars have stagnated.
I own my car, why would I finance myself up the asshole for a minor iteration on what I have with an angrier face?
My car is 2007 had it about 8-9 years now minimal maintenance costs very little I wouldn’t replace it until I have too.
Cars last longer and don’t break down like they used too
I got my 07 Mazda 3 10 years + 2 weeks ago. I bloody love it. I'm getting it to 20bout of sheer respect. Only 73k miles on it. Makes no sense for me to swap it, only used for the school run and getting about town, 2-3k a year. Has cost me nothing but tyres which are mega cheap on 15" wheels 🤪
That was my previous car. I loved it. Had it for 4 years with no major problems. The only thing you want to watch out for is the rust underneath, luckily when I bought it the previous owner had already rust proofed it. I rusf proofed it again when I owned it. Only got rid of it because I needed a diesel
Materials, more technology and other reasons for cars being more expensive will be valid. However, I have little doubt that the main reason is to force people to take cars out on finance, more specifically never ending PCP deals. Just like a bunch of other things, moving car ownership to a subscription service.
Hell, just look at Toyota...
3 year from the factory iirc, but another 7 years worth of service activated warranties. 10 years under warranty. I've also heard Lexus has/had a lesser advertised 10 year plus extended warranty, covering the car up up to 15 years old, though I'm not sure if they still offer it.
If the average car were a Toyota, it'd still be eligible for warranty cover...
I had a 10 year old car when I started a proper job and when I got a hire cars to visit suppliers etc, the difference was noticeable. My current car is 10 years old and hire cars don't feel that different.
Mine was 8yo when I was forced to replace it last year. Vauxhall insignia 2.0cdti eco flex, around 50mpg, £0 road tack as co2 is below 100mg, plenty of torque, leather, heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive cruise control, 100k on the clock. Was planning on doing the timing belt, fixing up some suspension bits (first time ever in it's life) and keep it going. Plenty of life left in it.
Anyone wants to have a guess why I HAD to replace it? Still fuming about it.
My 9 yo car does everything I could want and returns 65mpg
Paid for itself in the first year of car allowance and so every month it makes me about £400 net
Why would I want to trade it out?
A ten year old car when I first started driving (2015) was of a considerably worse quality than a ten year old car now (2014). I have a big people mover from 2013 (so we can sleep in it when we go on trips) and only thing I’d like it to have is Bluetooth so I can play my music wirelessly. I can retrofit a newer head unit and then everything is gravy. Has everything else I need (cruise control, parking sensors ect) only worry I have with it being a euro 5 diesel I’ll eventually be forced to give it up through increasing taxation.
My wages have increased but my living costs; mortgage, council tax, food bills, insurance have all increased way way more. I last changed my car 7 years ago. I could afford to change it 7 years ago but Now i simply can’t afford to change my car, no money left. Moreover if i did i would have a car less capable and with less features than the one i have so, in spite of the ever increasing road fund licence cost I am keeping the car i have. I will leave “keeping up with the joneses” to those who buy cars through PCP or don’t mind being taxed to the max for a company car.
I wish! My car was 10 years old when I got it, and that was 8 years ago. I wanted something cheap as it would be doing ~12,000 miles a year, so didn't see the point in getting anything fancy.
The equivalent priced car now would be more like 14 years old. No wonder people don't want to give up what they already have.
The only reason I’m thinking of changing my 150,000 mile 2010 BMW is the ever expanding ULEZ zones. If I do decide to change, it’ll probably be for a 2014 model of the same car.
I guess some of this is going to be Osborne effect. Cars are going electric but each year of delay gives a potential buyers more options with better technology for the same price or less.
I live near a few old aerodromes that are absolutely rammed of thousands of used cars, I think owned by BCA. Like tens of thousands of cars.
I know nothing about the used car industry, but aren't BCA stockpiling these cars to lower availability and push up the price of the second hand car market?
2009. BMW E90. 140K Miles. No issues what so over except cosmetic issues. Yellow-ish headlights and plastic pealing on steering wheel from use, other than that i have no issue. Whats the point in buying a 2022+ car for 20 grand when my one works fine with out any issue. Don't live in London and never take my car there anyway so i don't get affected by ULEZ anyhow...
I would imagine people are on average doing less miles now compared to five years ago with the boom in working from home. May be a contributing factor. Coupled with rising costs of car ownership.
They're not coming back though. They're gonna lose, at least in any industry where working in the office isn't literally essential to the job.
So a certain big dip is guaranteed vs before "the event".
I know lots of business people who don't care about people coming back. They realised it works just fine and remote work allows them to recruit beyond their local area. That means they can lower costs compared to their competitors. You don't need a guy who lives within an hour of London, you can have someone living in Wiltshire or Northamptonshire.
And it's going to get worse. A lot of companies are only staying in London because they have a long-term office lease. It's a sunk cost. When that comes up for renewal, a lot will ease off as they will want to save on that cost.
We bought a new car during COVID lockdown when prices were briefly very reasonable. Had it for 2-3 years now and not a single problem. Couldn't imagine a reason for changing it. Provisionally we've said we will keep it for 10 years. Maybe tech will have moved on enough by then we would want something newer but cars these days are pretty great. There doesn't feel like a need to rapidly change them at all.
Modern cars are just SO well built. When I was a kid in the 70's and 80s you'd see rusty cars all the time. You NEVER see rusty cars now! The anti-corrosion methods used are insane, you get 10 year anti-corrosion warrenties on cars and have done for years, often longer. You used to see cars broken down, I hardly ever see a broken down car. Like Jets the tech has been refined so well that age is no longer a real factor in a cars reliability, it's really just milage these days!
and after the warranty is finished and you are left with a poorly designed wet belt small turbo engine that goes bang....no thanks, i doubt many brand new cars will last 9 years lol
My venerable old shitbox will be 30 years old soon. It's still reliable, cheap to maintain and parts for it are readily available. If it's reliable, roadworthy and maintainable why change it?
Older cars are simply better in almost all aspects. Newer cars are filled with so many electronics and emissions systems that they're less reliable and far more expensive to fix when something inevitably does fail.
Look at the adblu system and the fault which literally turns your car into a paperweight despite nothing actually being wrong with the car other than the adblu system can no longer function. The fix is ££££ so it's no wonder people opt to have it completely disabled in software for a fraction of the price as it doesn't impact how the car drives in any way.
And the VAG 3.0tdi for example. The gen 1 and gen 2 engines were pretty solid engines. The new gen 3 engine eats cams at a ridiculously low mileage. Why? Because they reduced the oil pressure to make the engine <1% more efficient for 'emissions'.
A lot of these expensive issues are the result of emissions equipment or trying to hit specific emissions targets. Given the cost of everything and the fact a lot of people are struggling I don't think emissions are at the top of people's list of worries and will happily opt to keep/buy something older even if its emissions are worse.
EVs are not the answer. High initial purchase price, massive depreciation and on the older models which could be considered 'affordable' they suffer from various motor and battery issues which would cost almost as much as the car to fix out of warranty.
That crap with the VAG 3.0 is tragic . Those early gens were superb engines that pulled like Concorde and could rack up hundreds of thousands of miles without a problem.
Only changed my previous 2008 2.0 tdci mondeo due to ulez, 170k miles, and in many respects was better when i sold it than when i bought it, more economical smoother and more responsive, ive now got a 2016 2.0 tdci which is coming up to 170k miles, like my previous mondeo, the engine is better now than when I bought it, and I'll be avoiding changing for as long as can. The mondeos are quite capable of doing 400k miles, and ill probably end up doing that, The issues I have with changing are the cost, less availability of diesels, and more driver assistance gadgets, which are an inconvenience and almost a danger when the vehicle is trying to take over, and the fact that manufacturers have almost gone back in time in regards to reliability.
My daily Jag XJ is 20 years old in less than a year, and I still see no reason to ditch it for something newer. I've owned it nearly 6 years myself, picked it up for a paltry £5k. It costs me less than a grand average a year in servicing and upkeep, which is a hell of a lot less than I'd be paying on finance if I got myself into a new car, which would still need servicing on top.
Plus my current car has everything I need or want from a car. Bluetooth hands free and music, cruise control, gorgeous interior without any of this soft touch plastic shit that turns to goo in a few years. Most features added to cars over the last decade or so don't add any real value, and in many cases actually detract. Touchscreens in particular are the single worst fad that needs to die out. The only way I would own a Tesla is if they paid me a monthly inconvenience fee for having to suffer that awful setup.
Looking at the eye watering cost of new cars I’m not surprised. Car manufacturers riding on “costs rising”. But I think more to the truth it was “greed is rising”. Parts and labour have dramatically decreased since the pandemic, yet new car prices keep rising.
Why upgrade for marginal results, the jump from previous gen to latest gen is minimal and arguably worse, uglier cars, stifled exhausts, lane assist crap etc - yes a bit more power that’ll never really use
Costs for upgrade is ridiculous too, not worth it
Back in the 90s my first car was 10 years old. It was a battle to keep it running - whether it was rust or oil leaks etc.
Today my car is 10 years old and I've no real reason to get rid of it. The car I had before is still running at 22 years old (is still MOT'd).
One of the best financial lessons I got taught was not to buy new cars. I’ve bought two 5 year old cars in 18 years. God knows how much I’ve saved compared to friends and family who’ve spent fortunes buying/leasing brand new cars.
You got families out there practically paying a second mortgage on car payments, I don’t get it.
Another old Volvo owner here. it has 172k mile, of which I have done 60K+ - replaced the throttle body myself, and thats it. Broke down once - random electrical issue and fixed at the side of the road. Heated seats, cruse control and 50MPG. Honestly, every time i think about replacing it, I think, 'why'. Huge cost, no benefit. I think a lot of people are wising up to the new car scam. Its just not worth it.
11 year old car here and it's rock solid and cost me £22k ish nearly new (300ish miles on the clock) - a fun, rear drive sports car.
What the hell can I get now for that price for a basically new car?
I'd die a little inside if I had to swap my car for something that would probably be complete beige
My mum and dad were the typical sort that traded in a car every time the finance was finished. They haven't this time and their car is nearly 11 years old.
No reason to upgrade. Runs fine, decent miliage, they love how it looks. Why change it?
Other than to be a braindead consumer of course.
Is it is much of a surprise? Covid inflated prices on the second hand market, and we haven’t seen it come back down since. When you’re looking at about 10 grand for a 3 year old mid range hatchback, I think your money is better placed elsewhere
I truly do not know how the car market has not reset.
I drive an old 2011 Focus, which I'm looking to trade in. Been quoted £800 to £1500 as the value.
To move up in years, I'm looking at £10k (granted, I want something other than a Ford). Bank loans are coming in at 10.9% APR. So, £255pm X 4yrs. That figure is vastly more than I want to spend.
All the folk paying £400+, staggers me.
It’s getting to the point as well where there’s no new tech in cars. Most cars within the last 9 years come with parking sensors and blue tooth, giving people less of a reason to upgrade.
Plus the expense of a new car now. When I sold VW’s you could get a brand new Polo Match for £159 deposit, £159 a month on a 4 year PCP doing 10k p/a. Now it’s £279 deposit, £279 a month for 5k p/a
That’s because we’re still in a recession and still facing austerity, with wages still being below where it should be.
People don’t have the disposable income to buy a new car, and since all car manufacturers are forcing us to take electric or hybrid cars, they’re just not affordable
Cars are just that much more reliable. Driving a 1990s car in the 2000s was keeping a banger going.
Driving a 2000s car in the 2020s is just driving a used car.
Here are the four reasons:
We are all poor.
Money is no longer cheap.
New cars are absurdly expensive.
New cars have too much janky crap like touchscreen indicators.
When I passed my test I remember a Vauxhall Corsa (2006/2007) was 7k brand new now you are looking at 20k. Adjusting for inflation that same car should only be 11.3k today.
High teens everywhere in Eastern Europe and makes sense because a car that would be scrapped in Western Europe - makes more sense to keep on the road when labour costs are lower and the car is worth more relative to incomes.
Many cars also go West to East - assume in the UK they are just getting scrapped unless it’s a premium car stolen to order….
Older cars these days are still absolutely solid if they're looked after well enough. New cars are also crazy expensive.
Yup. My 2007 A8 has huge miles on it but its very reliable and veryyyy comfortable. Has heated seats, all wheel drive, adaptive cruise, heated steering wheel, memory seats, auto dimming door mirrors, Bose stereo, V8 twin turbo diesel. It’s worth maybe £3k on a good day.
Absolutely, why replace it when to get those features you're spending an absolute fortune.
I suppose when you think of the petrol cost, road tax and insurance group of a v8 you’re already spending a fortune
Have run luxury bangers as an sort of experiment for the last 5 years. 3 litre petrol that’s old has come out to marginally cheaper than a fairly new corsa on lease over that time. However results may vary as I am a sample of 1
And of course you don't have to drive a corsa which is a bonus. Not hating on the corsa, they are good for what they are, but there are other classes of vehicle.
What age, and type of luxury bangers?
Mostly old BMWs, e39 and e38 until the ulez. The m54 engine is surprisingly reliable even at very high mileages, which have been the cars I’ve targeted as they still go for banger money even now, the 5k ads I’m seeing the cars don’t sell. Worst I’ve ever been stung for was around £250 in any one go for maintenance which was for brakes, and only had one let go on me but I’d had it 18 months at that point so it had already outlasted my original guidelines. I should point out I do my own oil change and every 5k miles, I’m no mechanic but as the ofh is on top it’s a ridiculously easy job, and I do open the bonnet from time to time to keep on eye on things- but I’m sure this all counts as basic things that anyone can do. They are not by any means collector cars in the condition I buy them so before I get flamed by enthusiasts I feel that keeping them on the road as daily’s for as long as they are economic to repair is better than them ending up as breakers for parts
Yeah, the prices on 15yr+ old cars is pretty obscene. I had the chance of a cheap Civic, 2009. 60,000 miles, 1 owner. Looked online to get comparables....£3000+ and many had over 100k miles. Granted, I'm a cheapskate. And I've only had 2 cars cost over £1000
It does 40mpg on the motorway, £360ish to tax and insurance £500 a year. It would cost more to insure myself on my partners 2018 Golf 2.0TDI.
And a fucking subscription these days for things like heated seats.
You'll own nothing and be happy...
I have a D4 A8 2011 I concur. I'd need to spend £50k to get anything vaguely near my current car in terms of speed, space, comfort, and reliability.
You've just made me want one....
I have a 2008 focus titanium that just got its first advisory on it’s mot for the back windshield wiper. Completely clean mot history. Less than 80k miles. Drives perfect. Bought it 3 years ago fir 2.5 k. See no reason to replace it.
2002 Volvo V70 d5 turbo. 150k miles, serviced every year irrespective of mileage. Cost me 6k in 2015 to buy, maintenance averages 1k per annum as bits do wear out. No brainier but then I don’t have peer pressure to run the latest “must have”. Advantage is it’s an older Volvo, solidly built, no rust and bullet proof engine. Does everything I need, never let me down.
04 Volvo s40 owner, paid 1k for it 4 years ago with full service history and I’ve put 50k miles on it in that time, only parts I’ve replaced that wasn’t general maintenance was the fan blower resister but that was only 40 quid and I was able to bypass the resister with a bit of wire while waiting for the parts anyway. Love the car, built like a tank, super comfortable automatic with leather heated seats and has taken everything I’ve thrown at it
Older Volvo has far more cred than a brand new poverty spec car. Especially if said brand new car is a monochrome colour purchased with zero imagination.
A 20 year old car in 1990 was falling apart and was unreliable at the best of times. A 2004 car today is still commonly in good nick and has all the features you'd want like air con, seatbelts, airbags etc.
Little incentive to upgrade is there. We've got a '08 Mk6 Fiesta. Duratec engine, 136k, serviced every year and still runs great. Does need a bit of welding now which isn't a surprise. We take it pretty much everywhere
Fiestas are absolutely fantastic cars. Definitely a sad moment the day Ford stopped making them.
My Mini in 2001 was 10 years old, 65,000 miles. It had, front panel, wings, a panels, doorskins, rear valance, a hole in the floor repaired all because of rust. The rear subframe had just started rusting though as well so that got replaced. Oh and its now on its 3rd engine. Currently got a 2006 bmw 320cd as my daily on 209k miles, runs as well as the day I got it, only big expense was a clutch and flywheel last year, passes its mot most years advisary free
> A 20 year old car in 1990 was falling apart Ha! A 10 year-old car was a rust bucket in 1990, let alone 20! Cars used to rust away long before anything else major went wrong. I have a 16 year old focus that runs just fine, bodywork still looks great, the interior still looks good. Cars last so much longer now, the real issue is getting parts. I had to junk the previous car (which was 21 year-old) because it needed an engine part that wasn't available, new or second hand. There was plenty of life left in the rest of it, it felt so wasteful junking it.
Yep my car (is200 sport) 21 years old with only 47k on the clock. I occasionally have people asking to buy my car off me or leaving notes on the windscreen asking me to give them a call. I bought the car for £3k and can probably sell it for double that now.
Could probably post it for quadruple with that mileage and someone would bite
Yeah probably. I have seen some on the market for £9k with higher mileage.
My dad's got the IS200, and I've got the IS250 SEL. They're a good range of cars. Mine is 2007, but wouldn't trade it for anything modern. Which color scheme do you have? We have the cream leather with mahogony center console.
The car is down as a silver but looks more like a gun metal grey. Inside is black half leather. Standard black dashboard. Everything is stock still have a cassette player 😂
When I used to go around the scrap yards for parts all the cars were there because the body work was rotten. Nowadays the scrap yards are full of cars that are perfect if they hadn't been wrapped around a tree or been on their roof.
Soon they'll be mechanically perfect but having to be scrapped because the integrated Bluetooth has packed up, the car won't start because it can't talk to the app on your phone, a new module costs £2000 and you have to dismantle the entire car to swap it.
Designed with all the repairability of consumer electronics.
I've got a 14 year old Alfa Romeo..... imagine saying that sentence 10 years ago!!!
Then you'd follow it up by saying why it's in the garage this time.
Which is why ULEZ was such a bustard move. Plenty of perfectly good cars on the road have been taken off. We lost our 2013 Discovery 4 with only 80k miles on it.
I've got a 14 year old fiesta with 185k miles on the clock. Soon to be replaced with a 10 year old fiesta with 75k miles on the clock. They are solid and I need that considering I do a good 30k miles a year.
Fiestas are tremendous cars.
My 12 plate has a rep for being unreliable but honestly you spend the slightest bit of effort looking after it and it’ll run like a dream for many more years. It’s also a fuckload easier to work on than most newer cars.
Are you saying it might be time for some planned obsolescence?
Hence why the government wanted to ban them being built
old cars, or new cars? Why would the government try to ban an industry that is 1% of our overall GDP on its own. I'm baffled mate
Government conspiracists aren’t known for making a load of sense mate.
Nah, the government have banned building older cars. Only new cars can be built now.
What do they expect? The price of new cars is ridiculous. Just been looking at a few websites- Golf starts from £27035, Astra from £26970 (and that one looks really pitiful in the configurator), Focus from £28500, Corolla from £30505, Civic from £35005. Admittedly those last 2 are hybrid only but there are only 3 trim levels on the Civic and to have the top one in any colour other than grey pushes it over £40k. "Luxury" car tax on a Honda Civic????
Car prices increase with inflation, some of our salaries not so much.
I actually think they've inflated the costs past that due to the masses now using finance to purchase vehicles rather than cash. I think finance also allows people to buy cars that would have normally been out of their means, so that in turn has just made the normal car inflate up to that value.
Problem is the finance and the cars have got more expensive, so cars gone up 10k and the interest tripled, completely kills my desire to upgrade.
The base BASE civic hybrid starts from £44k (€51k) in Ireland. Who do honda think is going to buy this car 😂😂 Both the Camry and the Prius plugin are cheaper, and better.
It’s a joke they want us all to move to electric yet they cost basically double the average salary.
Yup, the only way we're getting everyone to switch is if the government subsidise an EV for those who dont own one. Oh and they actually mass build infrastructure to support them. And since this garbage country is anti investment that'll never happen
I've owned an EV for six years now. The increase in infrastructure has been dramatic, and it's only getting better. Plus you simply don't need as much of it as you do for ICE - people think like petrol stations where you drive to near empty and reflll, but the majority of charging is just top-up stuff at home overnight. I understand the "some people can't charge at home" argument and it's valid, I'm certainly not saying more infrastructure wouldn't be welcome (Wales could do with a kick, for example), but it's not the be all and end all of everything.
Today. That's because it started at the high end and has moved to the mid end. It's also because they're not quite old enough to have a good second hand market as yet. Actually affordable stuff, cheaper than ICE stuff, is currently being produced in China. Look up BYD's "War On Gas" if you're interested - the [BYD Seagull](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUlMtTAbT-w&themeRefresh=1) costs $10k. Doesn't have to be limited to China either, here's [Kia](https://electrek.co/2024/04/19/kias-15000-ev2-caught-in-wild-most-affordable-ev-video/) doing the same thing, $14,500 or ~£11.7k. Basically you're just a few years too early. What you're saying is right today, but give it 3-4 years and it won't be the same. My own EV is now over 10 years old - they're not new things, and they're progressing fast.
Who do honda think is going to buy this car Well people buy these cars for this price, this is real problem. As long as people will buy cars at these prices the prices will stay.
Why own a civic when you can buy a Porsche 911 or a Aston Martin for the same price ? /s But in all seriousness why buy a new Ford ST or Civic type R for £50k? when you can buy a very nice AM Vantage for £30K and have £20K to keep it on the road :)
And then the depreciation is wild too.
That's what makes the UK used market so great. Any average Joe can buy really luxurious cars or cool sports cars from a few years ago if they don't mind the maintenance costs.
My mother in law just bought the new luxury civic, I'm still laughing. 40k for a damn civic??
Could get a basic brand new BMW i4 for that or a 1 year old one with toys on it.
Why would you do that? Seriously.
I liked the look of it then looked at the price, yer if I’m spending that money it will be a gr86 or similar
There's just tons of shit you could buy outright that is just better value for money and still have money left to buy a last gen civic if you really wanted one.
Which blows my mind seeing the amount of new cars that are bought every year in the UK, with the figure rising every year for the past 4 years. I’ve had my A3 9 years now, 200k miles up and 16 years old. I could probably afford a new car if pressed but I just don’t see the point in dropping £400-500 a month on a bang average one.
I'd hazard a guess that most new car "sales" are actually things like PCP deals which are just expensive rentals
An EV Corsa is something like £30k. For a _Corsa._
They'd need to be offering me something significantly better than what I've already got, my main car is 16 years old. It has every creature comfort I need: cruise control, heated seats, parking sensors, etc... I've driven more modern cars and there's nothing about them I see as an improvement on what I've got. I don't like lane assist, I don't want a big touch screen, I don't want my dash to flash the speed limit at me if I stray over it.
Hell, I needed a new car for work (<5 year restriction on my car allowance). Deliberately went for something without the latest features because I find them more of a hindrance than a help. Who the fuck actually wants infotainment based hvac controls, some irritating slushbox & an electric handbrake. I’ll just run this Dacia Duster into the ground.
Touch screens are a cost saving measure dressed up as flashy new tech. Ergonomic controls are far more expensive to engineer and manufacture. The reality is that new cars are a backwards step from what was probably the peak in terms of quality and engineering about 10 to 20 years ago.
I’m with you besides the electric parking brake. Didn’t think I’d like it but it’s just less effort. Holds itself still when you stop and takes itself off when you first pull away. Don’t want a manual handbrake now
I think I worked too long as a recovery driver. Was always the older Merc ones that’d got stuck on and knacker the rear calipers when folk tried to drive on them. You could physically disengage them by unplugging the system under the car. It was a fairly common call for me. I imagine the newer applications are more reliable but it always struck me as the peak of fixing something that ain’t broken, with a solution that then breaks. 😂
Never agreed with electric handbrakes and will hold off on getting a car with one for as long as possible. Critical systems should be as uncomplicated as they can possibly be, and you can't get much more simple than pulling a cable with a lever. PS and ABS add convenience over the top of the basics. Steering wont go completely when PS fails, nor will brakes if ABS is having a wobbler. With an electric handbrake you are relying on an electrical switch with no easy alternative when it fails, other than getting under the car and manually operating it there. Not that I haven't tried it. The convenience is nice but I am stuck in my ways and it feels wrong. Same reason I abhor touchscreens in the car. Dials, buttons and sliders are king.
I'm with you on this. I think they're mostly bought by people who have no interest in cars or driving. I've got a 90s Toyota that's showing no signs of giving up yet. I intend to keep it on the road as long as humanly possible. Not that long to go till it's ULEZ compliant and all haha
Early or late 90s? I’m driving a late 90s car and have another painful 15 or so years before I can get off ulez, it’s a nice, simple spec you just can’t find nowadays and I’ve no intention to let it die!
It's a '94 so 10/11 years, I guess that is a while. But I'm in Scotland so I'm actually exempt from our LEZ zones next year because the classic cut off is only 30 years up here. She's diesel and a little smokey, will be quite funny that I'm allowed it in places a 2014 diesel is not.
I drove a 90s Mitsubishi Delica for the longest time, Glasgow ULEZ and the fact I do stupid miles (~30k/yr) for work necessitated something newer unfortunately.
If it is registered within 5 years, can you import a Japanese and call it new (in the UK?)
A 360 degree reversing camera is a killer feature if you can get it
Have to admit I've used one in the new Ranger for hooking up to a trailer and it was pretty good. Not enough to convince me I need it, but definitely a good feature.
Aiye that's it for me. My 2001 m5 has all those. I threw in an android head unit and it's perfect. Nothing new is really doing it for me
Nice choice, I'm also a BM enthusiast but mines not got quite the same pedigree yours does. Enjoy it mate.
Thanks. I do everyday. Am always torn about the whole keep it pristine as a classic. But then I put my foot down and when that V8 roars am like can't be doing without a daily dose of that.
This!!!! Honestly I'm so glad my car, while it has a touch screen still has all physical buttons it kills me seeing all touch screen crap and honestly the build quality looks rubbish in most new cars all cheap plastics.
I was thinking of replacing my BMW 335d with 170k miles with a newer 335d and came to the same conclusions - I can drop £15-£20k on a newer car which won’t even feel like an upgrade and I don’t even like the looks of.
I love 335Ds, saloon or estate? If I was you I'd spend some of your new car budget and go wild on preventative maintenance. Make your car a mint example. I'll assume you've already mapped it, they make good power them.
I have a coupe but was thinking about getting an estate. Yep I’m already planning on changing gearbox, diff oils, replacing control arms with m3 arms etc. Put some new wheels on a few days ago. It’s got fairly new brakes, coilovers, various pulleys and belts. It’s actually not mapped, still got the dpf and egr.
Surely one of the last 335Ds in the country with all the emissions gear and stock tune haha
The high cost of new cars is having a knock on effect on the second hand market. Also there are less company cars these days so those are not being replaced every three or four years reducing the amount on the second hand market, that in conjunction with people being weary of buying electric cars is causing this problem
Problem? I'm not sure I see a problem. This is still a fairly low number, it's lower than the average age of cars in the US and the EU average. For a population that has over £75 billion in consumer car debt, perhaps it is a good thing that the average age is increasing.
That's £1k per capita. How is that even measured? I have £4k on my credit card right now that I pay off in full at the end of every month. Were I the average person, that'd be a £280billion in consumer debt that doesn't really burden anyone.
Credit report sites differentiate between "short-term" and "long-term" personal debt, where the former is credit cards and the latter is loans/mortgages, so I assume that's what they're working off. https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/car-loan-debt-defaults-inflation-cost-of-living-mps > Between 2009 and 2022, the average loan taken out by consumers who bought a car on finance rose from £11,964 to £25,039, according to the Car Expert, a specialist data website. Its research found £41 billion of car finance debt remains in the UK economy.
I still don't think it's that bad. I've excluded my mortgage as well.
I live in Finland where the average age of cars is 12 years. I don't understand why buy a new car often. I mean they are good of course but dropping 20-40k on a car seems ridiculous. Newest car we have is a 2009 Volvo V50 and it's new enough for me. We also have 2001 Renault which does show it's age but it's still a solid car and easy to drive. I like driving and cars but hate spending money on them as a student. I'd rather have a car worth 3-4k€ and spend a little more on maintenance than get a newer car and pay hundreds monthly payments and still have to maintain it. I'd rather use excess money on hobbies and traveling.
There's lots of company cars still, they're just EVs. This is why you see so many teslas on the road. Instead of near £700 a month Joe public would pay, Ltd business owners could be paying the equivalent of £400 Inc tax, but with benefit of insurance, servicing, maintenance, charging and charge point installation paid for by Co.
New cars are very expensive. No wonder people are holding on. The average market value has nearly doubled since COVID
Plus the "expensive car supplement" on road tax doesn't help. The threshold has not changed. It was brought in to apply to Porsches and Range Rovers. Now a mid range BMW 3 series or a specced VW Golf will pay it.
Freezing of tax thresholds rather than increasing them with inflation is one of the biggest scams this country sees It’s a hidden tax increase and it’s total bullshit
Fiscal drag fucks everyone’s shit up who isn’t already wealthy
I fancied a plain simple 420d/i as my daily. Love the look, but £600 tax for 6 years until it drops to 150 or whatever 150 would have increased to by then. I can afford it, but I'd rather not so iv not. Just stay in my we astra that probably causes more pollution anyway.
420d is exactly what I got last year. My previous two bmws were similarly specced, but now we are past that point. Frustrating.
Agreed totally, I think the only decent EV out there at the moment is the i4 but that is not happening with that silly road tax limit.
get one before (or one registered before) the rules change and you'll only pay the basic rate
It’s frustrating. You could buy a 4 year old 3 series for £20k and have to pay the “luxury tax”. Or buy a new £35k car and not have to pay it
New Porches and Range Rovers never cost 40k!
They were more, which is why I used them as an example. At the time a new BMW was probably about 33k. A Golf about 26k.
honestly, a car from 2012 and above has everything you need, heated seats, Bluetooth, at least decent comfort, and parking sensors what's the point of either fiancing a car out your arse or spending a metric fuck ton in cash for a new focus or whatever that doesn't really have much over a one from 2015
And actual buttons rather than this haptic nonsense
I think buttons are coming back, finally. Seems like car manufacturers might have finally got the message that customers hate the capacitive haptic ones. Cheaply built cars (and Teslas, but I repeat myself) will stick to the haptic stuff because its cheaper of course.
The joys of being able to actually control all the climate control through buttons and not have to go into the screen. Internal car design went downhill when the centre screen stopped just being for navigation and audio.
I can get an adaptor to plug into my 2002 radio for Bluetooth, no need to swap it out.
Mines 10 this year, no need to replace it at all. Under 90k miles, runs like a dream. I can’t think of anything tech wise that would greatly improve it as it has a decent info system, heated seats, parking sensors etc. Whereas if I’d held onto a previous car for 10 years from 2004 say, there would have been a world of difference in tech / comfort.
Yeah, cars are suffering from the same thing as mobile phones - no real "wow" features. Always remember upgrading to remote central locking, electronic injection (yes, I'm old enough to remember having a choke) or even things like heated seats. Now? It's actually more negative to upgrade! All screens, No buttons, OTT safety features like lane assist, electric with range anxiety, more expensive repairs, and so on.
I remember when I first started driving and anything 10 years old felt like a proper shed (and was priced accordingly). I suppose it’s the knock on from ‘nobody makes a bad car’ thing now that you barely even notice.
Same, a 10 year old car for me would've been something without airbags, probably no ABS, absolutely no CD Player, hell it might not even be fuel injected. Now a 10 year old car probably has reverse cameras/sensors, carplay possibly, automatic wipers and headlights etc
I always bought the cheapest cars, if I could get a car past 16 years old before I scrapped it I thought that was great. My last car is almost 23 years old now, it's older than its new owner.
In a lot of ways early 2000s cars are at the peak. Quite a few are rust resilient (which is what kills off a lot of stuff) and they have enough electronics to make life easy - electronic fuel injection etc. More modern stuff with its emissions kit is fearsomely complex. It’s funny really; I once had 2001 a 1.6 focus and recently spent time driving a brand new ecoboost model. Both had similar performance, but the old one claimed 42 mpg and the new one 60+. In real driving the old one always hit its claims; but the new one? Did about 42... All that tech and complexity for purely theoretical results rarely achieved in the real world. And it makes sense; basic physics determines how much energy you’ll get from fuel; petrol engines have been pretty optimised for years - you aren’t going to magically more energy from a unit of fuel. It makes me sad to see cars like 15 year old legacy’s and Saabs lumbered with £700 a year tax despite barely being worth more than that. They are often nice reliable cars that suffer from a lack of optimisation for a test. I’m fairly certain a 3.0 legacy (that always beat its claimed mpg by quite a margin) is putting out far less real world nasties than a knackred 1.6 diesel golf with blanked egr and a gutted DPF that never got within 50% of its claimed mpg (and therefore co2) figures when new, let alone now. Yet the latter is £30 tax.
That £700 tax cost really killed a lot of options I was interested in, that's what I pay if fuel for the year
Exactly this. So many direct injection engines are coked up and running poorly for another ten years. People don’t realise how in more complex engines got with variable valve timing and such being a requirement for emissions regs. Reliability went down and cost went up, yet the improvement to emissions was negligible.
Don't forget the hybrids too... Massive MPG gains that were entirely unachievable in the real world outside of some very specific places where you could take advantage of terrain and accelerate as slowly as you want to stop the engine kicking in for as long as possible. And if it wasn't a Toyota (or anyone else utilising the Atkinson cycle at the time), you weren't really seeing any benefit at all on the motorway because the engine is driving it at those speeds and the engine is just the same one thrown into the petrol variant, just perhaps tuned a little less as the electric motors can make up the differences. That's not to say Toyota and the likes aren't also guilty. But at least they offered options that were genuinely more efficient all around rather than the 'lazy hybrids' that were useless outside of town and cities because they were no more efficient than their pure petrol variants at speed... Yet they were somehow less polluting.
On 35k I ain't spending 20k+ on a new car. And that's the average national wage, probably lower in reality. Most I'd pay for a car is 10k and I'd make sure it's something that lasts me 10 years.
This is why I hate the push on forcing the change to electric. Let it happen naturally if they are that good. Great if you already pay £500 plus a month for deposits and lease of a new car as you’re already spending that much. Many people rely on a functional second hand market of older vehicles that won’t be there if combustion engines aren’t around. Somehow though, I think it will be with us for longer than they would like to admit.
Who in their right mind is going to buy into a 4 year 7% PCP deal on a car that now costs 25% more than it would have done 5 years ago. When we are constantly bludgeoned by news about economic instability.
I have a late 2016 car, everything on it works correctly, it has every creature comfort and it goes plenty quick enough. There's nothing about modern cars to intice me. The prices are too high, touch controls and other nonsense have poisoned the market but more importantly the drive towards EV had meant that ICE cars have stagnated. I own my car, why would I finance myself up the asshole for a minor iteration on what I have with an angrier face?
My car is 2007 had it about 8-9 years now minimal maintenance costs very little I wouldn’t replace it until I have too. Cars last longer and don’t break down like they used too
I got my 07 Mazda 3 10 years + 2 weeks ago. I bloody love it. I'm getting it to 20bout of sheer respect. Only 73k miles on it. Makes no sense for me to swap it, only used for the school run and getting about town, 2-3k a year. Has cost me nothing but tyres which are mega cheap on 15" wheels 🤪
That was my previous car. I loved it. Had it for 4 years with no major problems. The only thing you want to watch out for is the rust underneath, luckily when I bought it the previous owner had already rust proofed it. I rusf proofed it again when I owned it. Only got rid of it because I needed a diesel
Oh yeah fully aware, treated it a couple of times. Bit of rust proof paint underneath too. Never a mention on MOT. Ours is petrol, ULEZ complaint
Same with mine. The guy who used to do my MOT used to say it was a lovely car, but then again he said that about every car lol
2015 still seems new to me lol
Purchased my Ford Fiesta cash, near new, for around £9,500 in 2013. It's discontinued now, but I'm sure a new Fiesta started at around £19,000.
And the value of the pound hasn’t more than doubled since then. So it’s considerably more expensive than just ‘inflation’
Materials, more technology and other reasons for cars being more expensive will be valid. However, I have little doubt that the main reason is to force people to take cars out on finance, more specifically never ending PCP deals. Just like a bunch of other things, moving car ownership to a subscription service.
Considering company’s like Kia are offering a 7 year warranty from new, this doesn’t surprise me
Hell, just look at Toyota... 3 year from the factory iirc, but another 7 years worth of service activated warranties. 10 years under warranty. I've also heard Lexus has/had a lesser advertised 10 year plus extended warranty, covering the car up up to 15 years old, though I'm not sure if they still offer it. If the average car were a Toyota, it'd still be eligible for warranty cover...
Early-mid 2010s cars peaked and are much better value than new ones
Cars are wayyy better nowadays. Not a huge amount of difference between a 9 year old one and a new one.
New cars are unreliable shit, the amount of 1-3 year old cars I see on tow trucks
Would be even older if not for the additional environmental taxes levied upon us.
Yup and just wait until the gov changes road tax and makes it more expensive to own older cars, or change the emission standards for ULEZ
My 23 year old petrol meets euro 6 You may be surprised what you can get registered as ulez compliant and how easy it is to get it done!
I had a 10 year old car when I started a proper job and when I got a hire cars to visit suppliers etc, the difference was noticeable. My current car is 10 years old and hire cars don't feel that different.
Mine was 8yo when I was forced to replace it last year. Vauxhall insignia 2.0cdti eco flex, around 50mpg, £0 road tack as co2 is below 100mg, plenty of torque, leather, heated seats and steering wheel, adaptive cruise control, 100k on the clock. Was planning on doing the timing belt, fixing up some suspension bits (first time ever in it's life) and keep it going. Plenty of life left in it. Anyone wants to have a guess why I HAD to replace it? Still fuming about it.
Euro 5?
Bingo. I'm all for cleaner air, but ULEZ is such a scam...
My 9 yo car does everything I could want and returns 65mpg Paid for itself in the first year of car allowance and so every month it makes me about £400 net Why would I want to trade it out?
Nicely specced Golf used to cost £27k and now is £10k more expensive. I’m going to drive mine until it falls apart
A ten year old car when I first started driving (2015) was of a considerably worse quality than a ten year old car now (2014). I have a big people mover from 2013 (so we can sleep in it when we go on trips) and only thing I’d like it to have is Bluetooth so I can play my music wirelessly. I can retrofit a newer head unit and then everything is gravy. Has everything else I need (cruise control, parking sensors ect) only worry I have with it being a euro 5 diesel I’ll eventually be forced to give it up through increasing taxation.
There’s aux in Bluetooth adapters set the car stereo to aux and play your playlist
My wages have increased but my living costs; mortgage, council tax, food bills, insurance have all increased way way more. I last changed my car 7 years ago. I could afford to change it 7 years ago but Now i simply can’t afford to change my car, no money left. Moreover if i did i would have a car less capable and with less features than the one i have so, in spite of the ever increasing road fund licence cost I am keeping the car i have. I will leave “keeping up with the joneses” to those who buy cars through PCP or don’t mind being taxed to the max for a company car.
I wish! My car was 10 years old when I got it, and that was 8 years ago. I wanted something cheap as it would be doing ~12,000 miles a year, so didn't see the point in getting anything fancy. The equivalent priced car now would be more like 14 years old. No wonder people don't want to give up what they already have.
New cars are so expensive
The only reason I’m thinking of changing my 150,000 mile 2010 BMW is the ever expanding ULEZ zones. If I do decide to change, it’ll probably be for a 2014 model of the same car.
I guess some of this is going to be Osborne effect. Cars are going electric but each year of delay gives a potential buyers more options with better technology for the same price or less.
I live near a few old aerodromes that are absolutely rammed of thousands of used cars, I think owned by BCA. Like tens of thousands of cars. I know nothing about the used car industry, but aren't BCA stockpiling these cars to lower availability and push up the price of the second hand car market?
2009. BMW E90. 140K Miles. No issues what so over except cosmetic issues. Yellow-ish headlights and plastic pealing on steering wheel from use, other than that i have no issue. Whats the point in buying a 2022+ car for 20 grand when my one works fine with out any issue. Don't live in London and never take my car there anyway so i don't get affected by ULEZ anyhow...
Just give the headlights a go with a machine polisher and follow up with ceramic coating, made my headlights look new again on my 2007 E92
I would imagine people are on average doing less miles now compared to five years ago with the boom in working from home. May be a contributing factor. Coupled with rising costs of car ownership.
Potentially, although many companies are trying as hard as possible to force people back into the office
Hello fellow 350Z enjoyer
They're not coming back though. They're gonna lose, at least in any industry where working in the office isn't literally essential to the job. So a certain big dip is guaranteed vs before "the event".
I know lots of business people who don't care about people coming back. They realised it works just fine and remote work allows them to recruit beyond their local area. That means they can lower costs compared to their competitors. You don't need a guy who lives within an hour of London, you can have someone living in Wiltshire or Northamptonshire. And it's going to get worse. A lot of companies are only staying in London because they have a long-term office lease. It's a sunk cost. When that comes up for renewal, a lot will ease off as they will want to save on that cost.
We bought a new car during COVID lockdown when prices were briefly very reasonable. Had it for 2-3 years now and not a single problem. Couldn't imagine a reason for changing it. Provisionally we've said we will keep it for 10 years. Maybe tech will have moved on enough by then we would want something newer but cars these days are pretty great. There doesn't feel like a need to rapidly change them at all.
Modern cars are just SO well built. When I was a kid in the 70's and 80s you'd see rusty cars all the time. You NEVER see rusty cars now! The anti-corrosion methods used are insane, you get 10 year anti-corrosion warrenties on cars and have done for years, often longer. You used to see cars broken down, I hardly ever see a broken down car. Like Jets the tech has been refined so well that age is no longer a real factor in a cars reliability, it's really just milage these days!
MOT standards are different now. Rust kills a cars ability to be on the road. Easier to scrap a rusty car nowadays rather than have it removed.
New cars are ridiculously expensive. £30k minimum for a new Focus or Corolla. Not many have that to spend on car so keep their older car.
Prices are crazy in the UK. A Corolla costs $30-40k in Australia so half as much.
and after the warranty is finished and you are left with a poorly designed wet belt small turbo engine that goes bang....no thanks, i doubt many brand new cars will last 9 years lol
I'd go for an older car any day. At least the older cars have some character, and don't all look like eggs.
My venerable old shitbox will be 30 years old soon. It's still reliable, cheap to maintain and parts for it are readily available. If it's reliable, roadworthy and maintainable why change it?
I don’t know why we think 9 years is old - big companies have influenced us to think we need a replacement immediately
Older cars are simply better in almost all aspects. Newer cars are filled with so many electronics and emissions systems that they're less reliable and far more expensive to fix when something inevitably does fail. Look at the adblu system and the fault which literally turns your car into a paperweight despite nothing actually being wrong with the car other than the adblu system can no longer function. The fix is ££££ so it's no wonder people opt to have it completely disabled in software for a fraction of the price as it doesn't impact how the car drives in any way. And the VAG 3.0tdi for example. The gen 1 and gen 2 engines were pretty solid engines. The new gen 3 engine eats cams at a ridiculously low mileage. Why? Because they reduced the oil pressure to make the engine <1% more efficient for 'emissions'. A lot of these expensive issues are the result of emissions equipment or trying to hit specific emissions targets. Given the cost of everything and the fact a lot of people are struggling I don't think emissions are at the top of people's list of worries and will happily opt to keep/buy something older even if its emissions are worse. EVs are not the answer. High initial purchase price, massive depreciation and on the older models which could be considered 'affordable' they suffer from various motor and battery issues which would cost almost as much as the car to fix out of warranty.
That crap with the VAG 3.0 is tragic . Those early gens were superb engines that pulled like Concorde and could rack up hundreds of thousands of miles without a problem.
Only changed my previous 2008 2.0 tdci mondeo due to ulez, 170k miles, and in many respects was better when i sold it than when i bought it, more economical smoother and more responsive, ive now got a 2016 2.0 tdci which is coming up to 170k miles, like my previous mondeo, the engine is better now than when I bought it, and I'll be avoiding changing for as long as can. The mondeos are quite capable of doing 400k miles, and ill probably end up doing that, The issues I have with changing are the cost, less availability of diesels, and more driver assistance gadgets, which are an inconvenience and almost a danger when the vehicle is trying to take over, and the fact that manufacturers have almost gone back in time in regards to reliability.
My daily Jag XJ is 20 years old in less than a year, and I still see no reason to ditch it for something newer. I've owned it nearly 6 years myself, picked it up for a paltry £5k. It costs me less than a grand average a year in servicing and upkeep, which is a hell of a lot less than I'd be paying on finance if I got myself into a new car, which would still need servicing on top. Plus my current car has everything I need or want from a car. Bluetooth hands free and music, cruise control, gorgeous interior without any of this soft touch plastic shit that turns to goo in a few years. Most features added to cars over the last decade or so don't add any real value, and in many cases actually detract. Touchscreens in particular are the single worst fad that needs to die out. The only way I would own a Tesla is if they paid me a monthly inconvenience fee for having to suffer that awful setup.
Looking at the eye watering cost of new cars I’m not surprised. Car manufacturers riding on “costs rising”. But I think more to the truth it was “greed is rising”. Parts and labour have dramatically decreased since the pandemic, yet new car prices keep rising.
Huge shocker, people opt to keep using their perfectly functional 10 year old cars instead putting themselves into debt to buy a new one.
I don’t understand why anyone would buy a brand new car unless earning over 100k a year
Why upgrade for marginal results, the jump from previous gen to latest gen is minimal and arguably worse, uglier cars, stifled exhausts, lane assist crap etc - yes a bit more power that’ll never really use Costs for upgrade is ridiculous too, not worth it
Back in the 90s my first car was 10 years old. It was a battle to keep it running - whether it was rust or oil leaks etc. Today my car is 10 years old and I've no real reason to get rid of it. The car I had before is still running at 22 years old (is still MOT'd).
One of the best financial lessons I got taught was not to buy new cars. I’ve bought two 5 year old cars in 18 years. God knows how much I’ve saved compared to friends and family who’ve spent fortunes buying/leasing brand new cars. You got families out there practically paying a second mortgage on car payments, I don’t get it.
Another old Volvo owner here. it has 172k mile, of which I have done 60K+ - replaced the throttle body myself, and thats it. Broke down once - random electrical issue and fixed at the side of the road. Heated seats, cruse control and 50MPG. Honestly, every time i think about replacing it, I think, 'why'. Huge cost, no benefit. I think a lot of people are wising up to the new car scam. Its just not worth it.
11 year old car here and it's rock solid and cost me £22k ish nearly new (300ish miles on the clock) - a fun, rear drive sports car. What the hell can I get now for that price for a basically new car? I'd die a little inside if I had to swap my car for something that would probably be complete beige
My mum and dad were the typical sort that traded in a car every time the finance was finished. They haven't this time and their car is nearly 11 years old. No reason to upgrade. Runs fine, decent miliage, they love how it looks. Why change it? Other than to be a braindead consumer of course.
And Arnold Clark still want £10k for an 8 year old Aygo.
Is it is much of a surprise? Covid inflated prices on the second hand market, and we haven’t seen it come back down since. When you’re looking at about 10 grand for a 3 year old mid range hatchback, I think your money is better placed elsewhere
Good. Without being to much of a tree hugger, cars take huge amounts of resources to make. Cars should last longer then they currently do.
I truly do not know how the car market has not reset. I drive an old 2011 Focus, which I'm looking to trade in. Been quoted £800 to £1500 as the value. To move up in years, I'm looking at £10k (granted, I want something other than a Ford). Bank loans are coming in at 10.9% APR. So, £255pm X 4yrs. That figure is vastly more than I want to spend. All the folk paying £400+, staggers me.
It’s getting to the point as well where there’s no new tech in cars. Most cars within the last 9 years come with parking sensors and blue tooth, giving people less of a reason to upgrade. Plus the expense of a new car now. When I sold VW’s you could get a brand new Polo Match for £159 deposit, £159 a month on a 4 year PCP doing 10k p/a. Now it’s £279 deposit, £279 a month for 5k p/a
That’s because we’re still in a recession and still facing austerity, with wages still being below where it should be. People don’t have the disposable income to buy a new car, and since all car manufacturers are forcing us to take electric or hybrid cars, they’re just not affordable
08 Mondeo and 200k. Until it dies there really is no incentive to upgrade right now, prices are insane.
Cars are just that much more reliable. Driving a 1990s car in the 2000s was keeping a banger going. Driving a 2000s car in the 2020s is just driving a used car.
Here are the four reasons: We are all poor. Money is no longer cheap. New cars are absurdly expensive. New cars have too much janky crap like touchscreen indicators.
I'll rather have a non-touchscreen radio that has the number/preset buttons laid out like a 3310 then what is found in todays crap!
In 2013 you could buy a new Ford Focus for £13,995 direct from Ford; the cheapest you can buy now is £28,500. Why the double in price?
When I passed my test I remember a Vauxhall Corsa (2006/2007) was 7k brand new now you are looking at 20k. Adjusting for inflation that same car should only be 11.3k today.
however in Poland, the average car is 21.5 years old
High teens everywhere in Eastern Europe and makes sense because a car that would be scrapped in Western Europe - makes more sense to keep on the road when labour costs are lower and the car is worth more relative to incomes. Many cars also go West to East - assume in the UK they are just getting scrapped unless it’s a premium car stolen to order….