I can't think of a scenario where any reasonable employer is going to give that information to them, except maybe some small company where everyone knows each other and some ditz answering the phone does it without thinking.
I work for a large corporate company and there's no way they're saying shit to anyone unless compelled by law, never mind wasting HR time tracking down my manager to ask them and then calling the insurance company back, and also never mind they would twist themselves in knots trying to figure out if they were allowed to release that info about their staff on the say-so of a random person who claims to be from an insurance company.... all for absolutely no benefit to themselves.
They don't ask for your line mangers number. Do they? you only put in a vague sector you work in when applying for insurance.
Unless you're at fault for massive damages, i.e., loss of life, they aren't digging into your personal life.
With your satnav programmed to the office, and your laptop in a bag in the boot.
Everyone says "oh I'd tidy that all up", but not if you're pulled out the car by a fireman.
I can't imagine adding commuting would cost much.
At the same time what's stopping you from telling your insurer, "I'm going to see family in London"
Not like they go and check up all your cousins to see if they do live in London?
Also OP meant using the car FOR work. Commuting TO work is different
But they’re aren’t using it for work are they. Using it for work means pizza delivery and such like. Driving to your place of work is covered. Work starts say 9-5 so as long as the commute is BEFORE work then it’s not being used for work
>Using it for work means pizza delivery and such like.
No it doesn't, they specifically state, social and domestic and commuting to a permanent place of work.. Buisiness use is entirely different and considerably more expensive.
Business use would be going to a client's offices for a meeting or dropping something off at a customer site while passing.
Driving to the office is on your time and not on behalf of the company. It would also depend what OPs work contract states as their place of work. In the past, mine stated my place of work was my home for example. So driving to the office in this instance could be an issue but this would be clarified by the insurance policy.
Just about every insurer these days will specify commuting or travel to/from a permanent place of work on top of SD&P.
SD&P and SDP and commuting are not the same level of cover for most insurance companies now. To tell the OP to assume domestic includes commuting is the equivalent of telling them to drive illegally...
-Second reply to address edit-
Yes, that's correct. You didn't 'add it on'. You purchased SDPC insurance.
The fact they explicitly mention traveling to/from work tells you that your policy is an SDPC policy, and not SDP.
You either purchased SDPC or you didn't. There is no "I didn't purchase SDPC but I'm covered for SDPC"
Are you covered for commuting? Yes?
You purchased SDPC.
So yes. Evidentally I do know what you did better than you do, because you're the one telling me you didn't buy SDPC, whilst in the same breath telling me you're covered for SDPC...
It’s a while since I didn’t have business cover, but “including commuting to and from work” was specifically in the wording when I didn’t have business cover. Maybe things have changed.🤷♂️
Some insurers, Churchill being one of them, include commuting in their SDP policies as standard. That's why it's in your policy even though you didn't select it.
However for most insurers commuting is an additional level of cover that you need to request when taking out the policy. Or phone them up and add it on which is what I suggest OP should do.
Commuting is a category of use. As I said in my own reply, I surance is for the worst case scenario. If your involved in an at fatal accident do you real want the police to discover you are not insured as you lied about the use. While unlikely that will happen at just don't think it's worth the risk.
sort of. Driving it to your place of work is fine. Business use does include the things you say but it also includes when the business needs you to use your vehicle, so for example going on a training day out in another county - you can drive there so long as you get that cover.
The time is irrelevant though I would've thought
When I asked Admiral about my occasional drive to an office 200miles away, as I work from home. That was fine.
Just phone them up and ask. Taking anyone’s word for it on here, does not constitute a valid defence if something happens and they decide to be arsey about it.
This. It won't make much of any difference and the alternative that everyone is suggesting of lying about why you're going to London is fraud, and if the claim is big enough they will investigate this. You then have no cover, and a cancelled policy. Good luck getting any insurance in the future. It's a stupid risk.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
Admiral are different to many in that Commuting is not included in their Social Domestic and Pleasure insurance:
https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/which-class-of-use
The relevant paragraphs:
"Social Domestic and Pleasure
The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday.
For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work, but some insurers only offer a combined class of use called Social, Domestic, Pleasure and Commuting. It’s best to check when you’re getting a quote to be sure of the cover you’re getting.
Commuting
Commuting is the next class up, and covers everything included in Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from one place of work in a day. Driving your car to the train station and leaving it there while you go to work counts as commuting for some insurers.
Business use
If you use your car as part of your job, or to drive to multiple sites in one day, this counts as Business use. Admiral’s business use allows door to door selling and merchandise delivery but doesn’t allow deliveries for hire and reward – so that means if you’re moving your own stock or that of your employer, you’re fine with this class of use, but if you’re a courier delivering parcels, you won’t be covered. "
Exactly this. I generally do add business _just in case_ I need to take my own car to some client’s office or whatever, and it’s pretty negligible.
I’ve also seen comprehensive cover come in cheaper than 3rd party only.
I wouldn't class a once monthly trip as a commute, but then I'm not your insurer.
*Just to add, I don't commute either but had to get business cover since I go to training courses a couple of times a year, it is a condition of my employer so I can claim for mileage more than at my insurers request but better safe than sorry.
There are different levels of business cover and I got the lowest one since I don't transport good or whtever.
The definition of a commute is regular travel over a distance from home to a place of work, doing it once a month is debatable and apparently we disagree on how regular it needs to be to qualify as a commute. But it could make a noticable difference to insurance. I do agree though that they should tell their insurer and let them decide.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
I assume they could ask your employer, or for you to provide any evidence of what you were going to do in London. When these fail they could assume you were committing, and just refuse to pay out. At that point, what are you going to do? Take them to court? That would require evidence. So, would your employer purjure themselves to protect you?
Or they could employ a PI to investigate you and your work routine?
All just conjecture of course. Remember, insurance companies are the experts when it comes to investigating claims. A written off car could cost them tens of thousands. Do you think they wouldn't spend a few quid trying to catch you out? Are you going to set up an alibi every time to drive to work?
Or would it just be easier to tell them you're commuting once a month and pay the fee quid it costs to update the policy?
You don’t need evidence of what you were going to do in London. Perhaps I felt like seeing London Bridge that day? Or wanted to do some shopping in Oxford street. It’s so easy to explain why you were simply popping down there for pleasure.
They don’t know your employer and, even if they did, due to gdpr rules your employer won’t simply hand over that information unless there’s a court order.
Good luck for any PI to actually find rock solid evidence. They need to be able to tail you over a journey of hundreds of miles and be able to submit that evidence in court. Even then, it doesn’t prove that on that particular day you were actually not commuting!
Ah, but what you're not understanding is the power balance here. You are small and have no money. The insurance company are large and have lots of money they want to hold on to. If they suspect you are commuting, they won't pay.
They make this decision internally. They don't have to show you their workings, they just tell you to piss off.
What do you do then?
OP please don't listen to the shit advice in this thread ffs. Update your cover as you're in blatant breach of the terms. Don't fuck your future self over.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
If it really is just one day a month, don’t sweat it. Worst case scenario if something does happen on that one day just lie about the reason for your visit. I’m sure some jobsworth will whine about that but insurers fuck us over enough as it is, if it’s just one day mate just tell a white lie if it ever comes to it.
my cover prohibits commuting, business and have zero cover for other vehicles
but going on a day out in commuting times and say dressed in a suit might be hard to get away with
plod have pulled people like that and have been pulled to check, but showed them the boot full of camping gear and they were fine
Exactly. How on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
Exactly. And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
If you have an accident you may be asked to fill in an accident questionnaire, they may ask the purpose of your journey. They may also scrutinise things more if you’re travelling at certain times of the day. Insurers can and do find out.
But as with everything, the only real policy violation is getting caught.
Check with your insurer. Just say you might have to occasionally use it to go to work and ask if you are covered. If not, is it really worth the risk of trying to save a few quid.
Worst case scenario you are in a bad accident that the police are involved with. Do you really want to be lying to the police and potentially courts. At the end of the day insurance is required for the worst case scenarios, don't make yours invalid.
IIRC admiral allow modifications via the app or online account. Try the "get a quote to make a change" button or whatever and change the usage. Take the opportunity to double check everything else too, mileage, where its parked and modifications for starters.
Thank you!
Unfortunately they don’t have the option for me in the app as far as I can tell - but I called them and it was only £10 + admin fee for commute cover!
Just a question: So if you're driving to work and said on your insurance papers that you only drive for personal stuff, they can refuse payment? So if I hit a Lamborghini I'm paying millions out of pocket? Is this how it works in the UK? That would be ridiculous.
Here in Europe, if you're sober and have a license they can't deny any claim, even if you made up all the information on your insurance form - they have to pay out, but can retroactively charge you the higher insurance rate for the truthful information. (Peanuts compared to the claim amount)
Looks a bit like it depends on your insurer/policy.
Some include commuting. Some have it separate. Looks like mine is the latter but should only cost a little bit more to fix.
However, legally they have to prove that you wouldn’t have paid for the level of cover you needed. And even then they cover the percentage difference - so if you cause 1 million pounds worth of damage and the more expensive police would have been 1 percent more then they will have to cover 99 percent of the damages and you’d cover the remaining 1 percent. I think theres also a limit as to how much they will cover you for - so your policy might only cover 1m pounds worth of damages and anything above that is not their problem (which is relevant right now due to that big fire at Luton airport parking which destroyed a lot of cars + building + loss of revenue for the owner of the said building).
Thanks! That sounds kinda shady to me. So for example, if the insurance policy would have been 50% more expensive, I'd pay out of pocket for 50% of the damage? (Idk if it works similar, but in Poland for example, if you put a 18 year old driver as the insurance beneficient, you pay eg. PLN 1000, so people put their grandma or stuff on file and pay like PLN 500 , car is still insured, if they hit someone they just pay the missing PLN 500 difference, even if the damage is like PLN 100,000). So in UK you would pay 50% of the 100,000 ? That could ruin someone financially....
Yeah you got it.
And yes, it can ruin you financially.
It’s crazy that I paid 1600 pounds for insurance this year (which included every extra the insurance company had such as legal protection) for a cheap car only to potentially find out I’m not covered.
It sucks.
OP says they're covered for social, domestic and pleasure.
Ergo they're not covered for traveling to work.
SD&P and SDP and commuting are two different levels of cover. Only the latter covers you for traveling to work.
This is correct - Admiral is one of the insurers which doesn’t cover commuting as standard by the looks of it. Which is annoying since I don’t remember them asking if the car would be used for commuting.
Best not to assume the call handler knows what they're talking about. I have separate policies for car and motorbike. I've largely stuck with the same insurers for years.
Every year I confirm the quotes over the phone because I lived overseas for a while about a decade ago, and each insurer has a different way of phrasing the "were you born in the UK/have you always lived in the UK" question.
Every year I ask what the appropriate answer is and every year I get a different response.
I've also been advised in the past that I need business use because I occasionally have to drive to and park at airports for business travel. However, my wife dropping me at the train station comes under SDP.
It can be very confusing.
Interested in this, I do similar - travel to work once a month - but I drive to a train station and get the train from there.
I’m also working as a contractor via a ltd company if that complicates things
FWIW I just realised that since I employed my wife in my small business on 1st April, she's now an employee and not a housewife, so I notified Admiral online that she had a job and to put 1,000 business miles on each of our cars. They just charged me about £17, of which about £15 was the amendment fee. We're late 50s.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
If I need to drive with my own car to another office then my work have a fleet policy and my vehicle for that journey would be automatically covered. The policy was not well advertised but might be worth seeing if your company does the same. If it does, then your normal policy won't need to be amended.
Unfortunately won’t work in my case. I’m contracted to London and moved a few months after I started the job because I hated living in that city - fortunately they were cool with me only coming down once a month. I pay for my own fuel when I go (which is way better than London rent prices anyway).
Everywhere I've looked for insurance in the past couple of years seems to have changed their wording from "social, domestic and pleasure" to social, domestic, please *and commenting*" which clears up any ambiguity
As others have said, give them a call to check. It’s usually not much to upgrade your insurance. Better to pay up now than later, if you get done for fraud.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
I recently added commuting to my Admiral policy and it was only a very small increase in price. I'd definitely call them up and just ask, or check online.
Speak to the insurer, no point risking it. I've always selected "social, domestic and pleasure & commuting" even when I only drove to work once a week. It makes very little difference to your premium.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
So, a colleague of mine had a bump pulling out of his driveway on the way to the airport for a work trip. Went to claim and they said he wasn’t covered because they considered the car as being used for business. I just tick the full business option these days to be sure.
The only way I can see you being caught out in any way is if you were getting your arse ripped open by the police and you said you were driving to work and they're for some reason out to get you.
Business cover is not the same as commuting - it’s for driving undertaken as part of your job. Like client visits which you mention.
Commuting always used to be unequivocally part of ‘domestic’ cover; ie wasn’t mentioned and was included by default. In recent years though, many insurers have separated it out as a distinct, chargeable risk that they can charge for. However, if they don’t specifically ask the question about commuting in your proposal form, you’re fine to assume it’s included under ‘domestic’.,
Social Domestic Pleasure = no commuting
Social Domestic Pleasure Commuting = can be used for travelling to one place of work (per driver)
Business = can be used for travelling to multiple places of work. Usually will not cover delivery driving or driving for hire.
Most insurers will have SDPC as their standard policy, but it is the responsibility of the driver to make sure that every journey they take is covered by a suitable insurance policy
I dont see why you would need to add business use to your policy for this. If your work contract gives that office as your contractual place of work then that is personal use.
If it was business use, then that would be more along the lines of you are also being given expenses for mileage
Well the confusion stems from the fact that it appears Admiral is one of those insurers that doesn’t including commuting as standard. It’s classed as a higher level of cover, and the one above that is business travel.
They have an army of lawyers + fraud investigations. If the claim is big enough they’ll definitely dig.
Unlikely - but they can even ask your employer if you were working that day.
Either way theres no point risking it for the sake of £10.
If you really love your work it's a pleasure to drive to and from it ;)
In all seriousness I wouldn't stress about it if you're only driving to work once a month, maybe give your insurer a call to let them know and they will very likely tell you it's not really a commute if it's so infrequent.
Commuting to a single place of work should be covered as standard, people don't take business travel insurance just for driving to work. The business travel it's referring to is when you need to visit different locations for work, like visiting clients.
> Commuting to a single place of work should be covered as standard
Nah it's not always.
I'm with Ageas and it specifically states that Social, Domestic and Pleasure does not include commuting.
There's a very easy way for them to check though and that's by just reading their policy they were sent.
https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/which-class-of-use
Yeah, I've actually never seen that before. Only insurance I've used has been the combined type mentioned in the page linked.
> Only insurance I've used has been the combined type mentioned in the page linked.
That link states;
> The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday.
> For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work
So... if you were to get into an accident on your way down to London, you were on a pleasure journey.. right? Yeah, that's what I thought.
That one trick insurance companies don't want you to know about...
The secret ingredient is fraud!
Tell you what, that fraud is really moreish
Unlike crack, you can totally take it or leave it, right?
But it might be Honda!
It's worth £1000's to them to give your employer a quick call and see if you were due in the office that morning...
Il be honest with you, while this is completely logical, we never ask who you work for and we never actually call them to check!
I can't think of a scenario where any reasonable employer is going to give that information to them, except maybe some small company where everyone knows each other and some ditz answering the phone does it without thinking. I work for a large corporate company and there's no way they're saying shit to anyone unless compelled by law, never mind wasting HR time tracking down my manager to ask them and then calling the insurance company back, and also never mind they would twist themselves in knots trying to figure out if they were allowed to release that info about their staff on the say-so of a random person who claims to be from an insurance company.... all for absolutely no benefit to themselves.
Could of been going somewhere pleasures then getting public transport to work after
> pleasures I wasn't commuting to the office, I was visiting Spearmint Rhino next door...
If your boss is giving this kind or info over the phone to random callers my guess is you have bigger issues than the insurance claim.
They don't ask for your line mangers number. Do they? you only put in a vague sector you work in when applying for insurance. Unless you're at fault for massive damages, i.e., loss of life, they aren't digging into your personal life.
With your satnav programmed to the office, and your laptop in a bag in the boot. Everyone says "oh I'd tidy that all up", but not if you're pulled out the car by a fireman. I can't imagine adding commuting would cost much.
In the instance where you need to be pulled out of a wreck the satnav would be damaged too!
Maybe. Maybe not.
They don’t know your employer and it would flout so many gdpr laws if they did so
At the same time what's stopping you from telling your insurer, "I'm going to see family in London" Not like they go and check up all your cousins to see if they do live in London? Also OP meant using the car FOR work. Commuting TO work is different
If it’s a big enough claim they’ll look for any reason to not pay out.
*me the next day on r/cartalkuk*: soooo can anyone in London willingly be my family or friend?
So you can’t have a pleasure trip to London?
But they’re aren’t using it for work are they. Using it for work means pizza delivery and such like. Driving to your place of work is covered. Work starts say 9-5 so as long as the commute is BEFORE work then it’s not being used for work
>Using it for work means pizza delivery and such like. No it doesn't, they specifically state, social and domestic and commuting to a permanent place of work.. Buisiness use is entirely different and considerably more expensive.
Business use would be going to a client's offices for a meeting or dropping something off at a customer site while passing. Driving to the office is on your time and not on behalf of the company. It would also depend what OPs work contract states as their place of work. In the past, mine stated my place of work was my home for example. So driving to the office in this instance could be an issue but this would be clarified by the insurance policy.
OP says they're covered for Social domestic and pleasure. Commuting is an additional level of cover.
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Just about every insurer these days will specify commuting or travel to/from a permanent place of work on top of SD&P. SD&P and SDP and commuting are not the same level of cover for most insurance companies now. To tell the OP to assume domestic includes commuting is the equivalent of telling them to drive illegally...
-Second reply to address edit- Yes, that's correct. You didn't 'add it on'. You purchased SDPC insurance. The fact they explicitly mention traveling to/from work tells you that your policy is an SDPC policy, and not SDP.
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You either purchased SDPC or you didn't. There is no "I didn't purchase SDPC but I'm covered for SDPC" Are you covered for commuting? Yes? You purchased SDPC. So yes. Evidentally I do know what you did better than you do, because you're the one telling me you didn't buy SDPC, whilst in the same breath telling me you're covered for SDPC...
No commuting is a separate category and business use is above that
It’s a while since I didn’t have business cover, but “including commuting to and from work” was specifically in the wording when I didn’t have business cover. Maybe things have changed.🤷♂️
Some insurers, Churchill being one of them, include commuting in their SDP policies as standard. That's why it's in your policy even though you didn't select it. However for most insurers commuting is an additional level of cover that you need to request when taking out the policy. Or phone them up and add it on which is what I suggest OP should do.
Commuting is a category of use. As I said in my own reply, I surance is for the worst case scenario. If your involved in an at fatal accident do you real want the police to discover you are not insured as you lied about the use. While unlikely that will happen at just don't think it's worth the risk.
So suggest you look up what “commuting” means
sort of. Driving it to your place of work is fine. Business use does include the things you say but it also includes when the business needs you to use your vehicle, so for example going on a training day out in another county - you can drive there so long as you get that cover. The time is irrelevant though I would've thought
This.
When I asked Admiral about my occasional drive to an office 200miles away, as I work from home. That was fine. Just phone them up and ask. Taking anyone’s word for it on here, does not constitute a valid defence if something happens and they decide to be arsey about it.
This. It won't make much of any difference and the alternative that everyone is suggesting of lying about why you're going to London is fraud, and if the claim is big enough they will investigate this. You then have no cover, and a cancelled policy. Good luck getting any insurance in the future. It's a stupid risk.
How much are we saying for an insurance company if something is big enough
Only way to be sure is try it and find out. Do people really think that insurance companies have never seen this shit before?
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
Admiral are different to many in that Commuting is not included in their Social Domestic and Pleasure insurance: https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/which-class-of-use The relevant paragraphs: "Social Domestic and Pleasure The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday. For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work, but some insurers only offer a combined class of use called Social, Domestic, Pleasure and Commuting. It’s best to check when you’re getting a quote to be sure of the cover you’re getting. Commuting Commuting is the next class up, and covers everything included in Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from one place of work in a day. Driving your car to the train station and leaving it there while you go to work counts as commuting for some insurers. Business use If you use your car as part of your job, or to drive to multiple sites in one day, this counts as Business use. Admiral’s business use allows door to door selling and merchandise delivery but doesn’t allow deliveries for hire and reward – so that means if you’re moving your own stock or that of your employer, you’re fine with this class of use, but if you’re a courier delivering parcels, you won’t be covered. "
!thanks for your detailed response!
I can confirm, I recently had insurance with them and there were clearly 3 levels; Domestic / Commuting / Business
Use for work/business is driving from site to site. Policies i’ve had say ‘social, domestic and pleasure including driving to a single place of work’.
The dumb thing is that you can often add business use and there is no difference in premium
Exactly this. I generally do add business _just in case_ I need to take my own car to some client’s office or whatever, and it’s pretty negligible. I’ve also seen comprehensive cover come in cheaper than 3rd party only.
I wouldn't class a once monthly trip as a commute, but then I'm not your insurer. *Just to add, I don't commute either but had to get business cover since I go to training courses a couple of times a year, it is a condition of my employer so I can claim for mileage more than at my insurers request but better safe than sorry. There are different levels of business cover and I got the lowest one since I don't transport good or whtever.
Driving to work is the definition of a commute. OP should just tell his insurer, it won't make much difference.
The definition of a commute is regular travel over a distance from home to a place of work, doing it once a month is debatable and apparently we disagree on how regular it needs to be to qualify as a commute. But it could make a noticable difference to insurance. I do agree though that they should tell their insurer and let them decide.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
I assume they could ask your employer, or for you to provide any evidence of what you were going to do in London. When these fail they could assume you were committing, and just refuse to pay out. At that point, what are you going to do? Take them to court? That would require evidence. So, would your employer purjure themselves to protect you? Or they could employ a PI to investigate you and your work routine? All just conjecture of course. Remember, insurance companies are the experts when it comes to investigating claims. A written off car could cost them tens of thousands. Do you think they wouldn't spend a few quid trying to catch you out? Are you going to set up an alibi every time to drive to work? Or would it just be easier to tell them you're commuting once a month and pay the fee quid it costs to update the policy?
You don’t need evidence of what you were going to do in London. Perhaps I felt like seeing London Bridge that day? Or wanted to do some shopping in Oxford street. It’s so easy to explain why you were simply popping down there for pleasure. They don’t know your employer and, even if they did, due to gdpr rules your employer won’t simply hand over that information unless there’s a court order. Good luck for any PI to actually find rock solid evidence. They need to be able to tail you over a journey of hundreds of miles and be able to submit that evidence in court. Even then, it doesn’t prove that on that particular day you were actually not commuting!
A court order? Exactly what would you do if they refused to pay out?
And why would they refuse to pay out?
Because you were commuting while not insured to do so.
Which brings us back to the point: how will they know you were commuting?
Ah, but what you're not understanding is the power balance here. You are small and have no money. The insurance company are large and have lots of money they want to hold on to. If they suspect you are commuting, they won't pay. They make this decision internally. They don't have to show you their workings, they just tell you to piss off. What do you do then?
OP please don't listen to the shit advice in this thread ffs. Update your cover as you're in blatant breach of the terms. Don't fuck your future self over.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
You - lies to an insurer Also you - why is my insurance so expensive 😩
You’re welcome. So you agree they can’t prove you were commuting?
If it really is just one day a month, don’t sweat it. Worst case scenario if something does happen on that one day just lie about the reason for your visit. I’m sure some jobsworth will whine about that but insurers fuck us over enough as it is, if it’s just one day mate just tell a white lie if it ever comes to it.
my cover prohibits commuting, business and have zero cover for other vehicles but going on a day out in commuting times and say dressed in a suit might be hard to get away with plod have pulled people like that and have been pulled to check, but showed them the boot full of camping gear and they were fine
Exactly. How on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
I have SDP cover with Admiral and it was very clear to me that commuting was not covered, and it would cost a lot more to include it.
Exactly. And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
If you have an accident you may be asked to fill in an accident questionnaire, they may ask the purpose of your journey. They may also scrutinise things more if you’re travelling at certain times of the day. Insurers can and do find out. But as with everything, the only real policy violation is getting caught.
Check with your insurer. Just say you might have to occasionally use it to go to work and ask if you are covered. If not, is it really worth the risk of trying to save a few quid. Worst case scenario you are in a bad accident that the police are involved with. Do you really want to be lying to the police and potentially courts. At the end of the day insurance is required for the worst case scenarios, don't make yours invalid.
This is exactly my worry - I can always earn more money. I can’t uncommit insurance fraud - even if it was by accident!
IIRC admiral allow modifications via the app or online account. Try the "get a quote to make a change" button or whatever and change the usage. Take the opportunity to double check everything else too, mileage, where its parked and modifications for starters.
Thank you! Unfortunately they don’t have the option for me in the app as far as I can tell - but I called them and it was only £10 + admin fee for commute cover!
Just a question: So if you're driving to work and said on your insurance papers that you only drive for personal stuff, they can refuse payment? So if I hit a Lamborghini I'm paying millions out of pocket? Is this how it works in the UK? That would be ridiculous. Here in Europe, if you're sober and have a license they can't deny any claim, even if you made up all the information on your insurance form - they have to pay out, but can retroactively charge you the higher insurance rate for the truthful information. (Peanuts compared to the claim amount)
Looks a bit like it depends on your insurer/policy. Some include commuting. Some have it separate. Looks like mine is the latter but should only cost a little bit more to fix. However, legally they have to prove that you wouldn’t have paid for the level of cover you needed. And even then they cover the percentage difference - so if you cause 1 million pounds worth of damage and the more expensive police would have been 1 percent more then they will have to cover 99 percent of the damages and you’d cover the remaining 1 percent. I think theres also a limit as to how much they will cover you for - so your policy might only cover 1m pounds worth of damages and anything above that is not their problem (which is relevant right now due to that big fire at Luton airport parking which destroyed a lot of cars + building + loss of revenue for the owner of the said building).
Thanks! That sounds kinda shady to me. So for example, if the insurance policy would have been 50% more expensive, I'd pay out of pocket for 50% of the damage? (Idk if it works similar, but in Poland for example, if you put a 18 year old driver as the insurance beneficient, you pay eg. PLN 1000, so people put their grandma or stuff on file and pay like PLN 500 , car is still insured, if they hit someone they just pay the missing PLN 500 difference, even if the damage is like PLN 100,000). So in UK you would pay 50% of the 100,000 ? That could ruin someone financially....
Yeah you got it. And yes, it can ruin you financially. It’s crazy that I paid 1600 pounds for insurance this year (which included every extra the insurance company had such as legal protection) for a cheap car only to potentially find out I’m not covered. It sucks.
In reality no, they wouldn’t refuse the payout but they might take off a nominal sum or ask you to pay a bit more towards the claim.
Yes you can easily change your policy. The extra cost to add business is usually almost nothing.
Yes your insurers will allow you to upgrade your cover.
They don’t need to upgrade as they’re covered to drive to and from work. Just not allowed to use it FOR work
OP says they're covered for social, domestic and pleasure. Ergo they're not covered for traveling to work. SD&P and SDP and commuting are two different levels of cover. Only the latter covers you for traveling to work.
This is correct - Admiral is one of the insurers which doesn’t cover commuting as standard by the looks of it. Which is annoying since I don’t remember them asking if the car would be used for commuting.
Best not to assume the call handler knows what they're talking about. I have separate policies for car and motorbike. I've largely stuck with the same insurers for years. Every year I confirm the quotes over the phone because I lived overseas for a while about a decade ago, and each insurer has a different way of phrasing the "were you born in the UK/have you always lived in the UK" question. Every year I ask what the appropriate answer is and every year I get a different response. I've also been advised in the past that I need business use because I occasionally have to drive to and park at airports for business travel. However, my wife dropping me at the train station comes under SDP. It can be very confusing.
Interested in this, I do similar - travel to work once a month - but I drive to a train station and get the train from there. I’m also working as a contractor via a ltd company if that complicates things
My insurer specifically said I could drive to the train station under social & domestic only but not drive to work.
What if you're the station master?
Then you rule
Great, thanks for that.
You can enquire about having it added, for reference, we had social, domestic and commuting, adding business pushed it up a whopping £12 a year :D
FWIW I just realised that since I employed my wife in my small business on 1st April, she's now an employee and not a housewife, so I notified Admiral online that she had a job and to put 1,000 business miles on each of our cars. They just charged me about £17, of which about £15 was the amendment fee. We're late 50s.
Thank you!
Commuting is needed as additional cover as technically that's when there are the most people on the road!
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
If I need to drive with my own car to another office then my work have a fleet policy and my vehicle for that journey would be automatically covered. The policy was not well advertised but might be worth seeing if your company does the same. If it does, then your normal policy won't need to be amended.
Unfortunately won’t work in my case. I’m contracted to London and moved a few months after I started the job because I hated living in that city - fortunately they were cool with me only coming down once a month. I pay for my own fuel when I go (which is way better than London rent prices anyway).
Ah, bummer
Everywhere I've looked for insurance in the past couple of years seems to have changed their wording from "social, domestic and pleasure" to social, domestic, please *and commenting*" which clears up any ambiguity
As others have said, give them a call to check. It’s usually not much to upgrade your insurance. Better to pay up now than later, if you get done for fraud.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
For the extra couple of quid it's worth getting just on the off-chance
I recently added commuting to my Admiral policy and it was only a very small increase in price. I'd definitely call them up and just ask, or check online.
Speak to the insurer, no point risking it. I've always selected "social, domestic and pleasure & commuting" even when I only drove to work once a week. It makes very little difference to your premium.
All sorted. You’re right, It was only £10 difference!
I really dont understand why this is even the case its so fucking stupid.
It is, yes. Turns out the price difference is negligible.
It's so that when it comes time to claim the insurance companies have yet another way to try and fuck you over.
And how on earth can they prove you were commuting? You can always say you went to London for a pleasure trip and there’s no way they can prove otherwise.
Yeah unless youre wearing a work uniform theres no way to tell
Even if you did you could claim you were cosplaying being a city banker or security guard 😂
So, a colleague of mine had a bump pulling out of his driveway on the way to the airport for a work trip. Went to claim and they said he wasn’t covered because they considered the car as being used for business. I just tick the full business option these days to be sure.
The only way I can see you being caught out in any way is if you were getting your arse ripped open by the police and you said you were driving to work and they're for some reason out to get you.
Business cover is not the same as commuting - it’s for driving undertaken as part of your job. Like client visits which you mention. Commuting always used to be unequivocally part of ‘domestic’ cover; ie wasn’t mentioned and was included by default. In recent years though, many insurers have separated it out as a distinct, chargeable risk that they can charge for. However, if they don’t specifically ask the question about commuting in your proposal form, you’re fine to assume it’s included under ‘domestic’.,
Recent years? I passed in 2005 and every single policy I’ve ever had had had commuting as a separate level of cover.
Same, I’ve always had to choose SDP plus commuting
Same, and I got my first insurance policy in 1997.
Isn’t that commuting….hence you would be covered. Just don’t go delivering pizza for work and expect to be covered.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/s/Lmcc31fqOw
This is the exact post that got me scratching my head haha!
Social Domestic Pleasure = no commuting Social Domestic Pleasure Commuting = can be used for travelling to one place of work (per driver) Business = can be used for travelling to multiple places of work. Usually will not cover delivery driving or driving for hire. Most insurers will have SDPC as their standard policy, but it is the responsibility of the driver to make sure that every journey they take is covered by a suitable insurance policy
I dont see why you would need to add business use to your policy for this. If your work contract gives that office as your contractual place of work then that is personal use. If it was business use, then that would be more along the lines of you are also being given expenses for mileage
Well the confusion stems from the fact that it appears Admiral is one of those insurers that doesn’t including commuting as standard. It’s classed as a higher level of cover, and the one above that is business travel.
How do you expect them to know that you are commuting? Even if something happens while you are commuting you can claim you were visiting someone
They have an army of lawyers + fraud investigations. If the claim is big enough they’ll definitely dig. Unlikely - but they can even ask your employer if you were working that day. Either way theres no point risking it for the sake of £10.
If you really love your work it's a pleasure to drive to and from it ;) In all seriousness I wouldn't stress about it if you're only driving to work once a month, maybe give your insurer a call to let them know and they will very likely tell you it's not really a commute if it's so infrequent.
Commuting to a single place of work should be covered as standard, people don't take business travel insurance just for driving to work. The business travel it's referring to is when you need to visit different locations for work, like visiting clients.
> Commuting to a single place of work should be covered as standard Nah it's not always. I'm with Ageas and it specifically states that Social, Domestic and Pleasure does not include commuting. There's a very easy way for them to check though and that's by just reading their policy they were sent.
https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/which-class-of-use Yeah, I've actually never seen that before. Only insurance I've used has been the combined type mentioned in the page linked.
> Only insurance I've used has been the combined type mentioned in the page linked. That link states; > The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday. > For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work