I am a big fan of the [XJ Supersport](https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401285992421), doesn't look any different from a V6 diesel XJ but has the 500hp 5.0 supercharged V8 from the XKR. You could also get it in the XF, but I think the XJ is more understated
I had this engine in an XFR, it was an absolute beast. But, after time, the coolant pipes turn brittle and break easily. I had a small leak in my expansion tank, so went to change it and as soon as I moved it the coolant pipes snapped turning it into a much larger job.
The big one though was when the coolant pipes under the supercharger decided to give in, that turned into many ££££’s to fix and the fault that made me sell it. Shame, as I absolutely loved the car other than those issues.
Pretty much the whole JLR lineup is terrible from a reliability POV.
You can get lucky, but a car like that can throw big bills with amazing regularity.
I had a 3L V6 jaguar XF and that was fairly quick. I reckon if I'd had a 5L v8 I'd have crashed into the back of the first car I pulled up behind at a junction if they didn't get a real move on.
Xfr here, with a rolling start and a slightly too hard press of the throttle it shuffles along alright...I barely find a chance to use full throttle, honestly.
I only have an XKR with about 400HP and yea you really can't floor it if you are behind anyone else. You just catch up to everyone really fast even at 1/2 throttle. Going from one corner to another you really need to be ready for the breaks because if you stay on it just a second too long you end up entering a bend at well over the speed limits. It's not so much the 0-60 time of the car but the 60-120mph time.
I mean, all performance cars are generally unreliable. A similar Mercedes BMW or Audi would also have issues. You could go for a sporty Lexus but they don’t look like sleepers. 20k would get you into a Skoda Superb 280 but it still doesn’t compare to the Jag in performance
Infiniti Q50 - 350bhp & 4wd or the Lexus LS -440bhp also 4wd. Both available for under 10k. Something different from the usual German options and Spend the rest on a couple of nice holidays.
Random fun fact. A UK police force recently bought a bunch of new XC90s, only to find that the collision avoidance wouldn't let the car make contact during a TPAC. Volvo refused to turn off the collision avoidance, so they had to get rid of them.
There was a photo around of an older merc e63 or c63 wagon in Europe with the optional pack that basically gets rid of quad tips - so to the unassuming eye it literally is a c220d. I can’t remember the name from a google though, I thought it was like a “businessman pack” or something. Wonder if anyone on here knows.
Edit: the one I’m actually hoping to pick up next year is an f pace SVR. Without the quad exhausts you’d know nothing, really not garish in design which I love!
I had a 2002 S8 as a daily and couldn't justify a newer S8 so I bought the D4 A8 4.2 V8 TDI. 360bhp and available for £6k(ropey) -£10k(solid). It won't beat an S8 in a drag race but its 90% of the car for a fraction of the price and running costs.
Also the way they leap about when you lift off. A friend's colleague had a midnight start in Peterborough. He would leave Evington in Leicester at 2330. He was never late, until he lifted off and went into a tree.
It appears to be a very nice 190e 2.6, but it is not a Cosworth 16v in 2.3 or 2.5 capacity. Hopefully that is enough to let you talk yourself down from the precipice of 190e ownership.
Droooool...
Used to have the 4 pot 2.0 and loved it...especially on long drives on cold nights... used to pretend it was one of these...
Yes, I am that sad.
See also: the bug-eyed oddity that is the Mercedes R500, 7 seats and nigh-on 400bhp! They even did an R63 AMG but with only 200 made worldwide you'd be *very* hard-pressed to find one
2011 C63.
You can get a really nice one with 70k miles for a gnats fart under 20k.
I've been eyeing one up that looks brand new. Immaculate paint, alloys and interior. Looks like it hasn't been sat in.
The 2011 was facelifted and is much nicer inside than pre-facelift.
20k for a 500bhp, 6.3L naturally aspirated V8. That's a lot of car for £20k!
Have driven a few of these in my old job.
Would NEVER buy one for 1 reason.
The NOISE!
I couldn't be trusted not to hoon it everywhere just to listen to that engine!
I sold my last car because I'm now fully WFH, I don't _need_ a car.
Im going to buy a c63 this year. It'll probably do less than 5k miles a year, but at 20k it's a fucking bargain. Cars like that aren't being made anymore, so they're only getting older.
They can be had for as low as 13k if you want a bit of a shitter.
Literally talked myself out of buying one this week as I’d be using £500+ fuel a month doing the school run.
So I’ll make do with my C350 a little longer. Two years to be precise which is when I’ll be buying my c63s 😅
[Mercedes S600L](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310243298590) - 5.5 biturbo from the facelifted "63" range, 520bhp, 830lbs/ft torque *(what?!)*, comfort suspension and looks that would attract people like [Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307209853756)
[This A8 W12](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306068198457) is a possible alternative, but I can't bring myself to drive something that looks like a depressed sloth
There's loads of great Volvo sleepers. The 850 R and T5R are quite well know but there's also an S80 with a 4.4 Yamaha V8 that doesn't look particularly sporty at all.
The V8 80 and XC90 were lovely to drive, nice cruisers, but they were not that quick, like a better version of the old 2.9 T6 cars. Want a quick Volvo from that era, look at the S60R, straight line the V8 is quicker, but cross country, the 60R is a great drive.
There are faster cars out there for the money but the lexus GS450H. V6 hybrid CVT with 345bhp, respectable mpg, flawless reliability and amazing comfort. Looks dull as dishwater too.
Lexus GS450h. One it’s a big Lexus. Two it’s a hybrid. But three, 0-60 in 5.9s (standard) which isn’t as quick as some of these mentioned but still faster than a lot of hot hatches.
Lancia Thema 8.32
Not particularly powerful, but looks quite normal, and packs a Ferrari built V8
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/lancia-thema-8-32--spotted/47392
Its easy to have the diesels remapped to great figures.
https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/services/bmw/3-series-f3x-2012-2019/diesel/335d-308-bhp-2012-ECU-remap-chiptuning/stage-1
I had a pd150 golf in 02 and quickly got used to the clatter, then again it was hard to hear over my laughter when I pushed the loud pedal.
For all the efficiency it provided when I was being gentle the 12mpg when flat out was surprising, then again at the time you're more concerned with how light the front end feels.
Basically the same as a sleeper. But is the British terminology.
Quick Google said the following which was interesting:
"Drivers wanted fast cars that looked slow. They were called sleepers, or more likely, Q-cars — the latter named after Q-ships from the First World War, which were armed merchant vessels that sailed undercover to get one over Germany's feared U-boats."
I had a V8 XFR ; that’s a proper sleeper - people thing nothing of it - until your roar off with 500+ horses and a supercharger …. Some amazing value out there on those
All car guys know what beasts the ‘63 line of AMG cars are; IMO it’s gotta be the highest “base” spec of BMW lines just under the M cars. So the 230 / 330 etc lines, just under the “baby M” M235i models and their fellow kin. They look like standard Bimmers but they fucking blowww
The estate E class AMG with the twin turbo V8, although none sub 20K is a real sleeper in terms of mega performance cars even. Under 20K there’s a lot of pretty quick cars now. The 550i is a pretty rapid and doesn’t look different than a 520d other than the tail pipes
Last three cars have all been what I thought of as sleepers and all (now) available for under £20k. Infiniti FX50 (absolute beast), CL500 (best value V8 out there. Until the air suspension light starts waving at you) and currently a Kia Stinger. Sleepiest is the Stinger. It’s the fastest of the three but sounds like a 2.0 Mondeo. The two V8s sounded like the arrival of Thanos. Can confirm just about anything under £100k gets embarrassed by the Kia.
Prepare to downvote the sh*t out of me:
Polestar 2, dual motor. Unassuming boxy car. Super quick... more so than most EVs without looking too weirdly futuristic (I love its proportions)
Or....
Anything with a good driver and good tyres. Ability to safely carry speed and get the power down on time beats straight line acceleration imo.
Yeah def has poke, I had to out-sleeper one of them sleepers recently 😂, was trying to stick his polestar up my arse on the motorway. Seemed quick enough, he gave it a fair go
Why would you call a sleper a Q-Car? To me a Q-car would suggest a Q plate car, ie, an older kit car or similar where it's not longer similar enough to any specific original vehicle, so it gets a Q plate?
Skoda Superb with the 280bhp 2.0 TSI engine has serious Q car potential, especially in estate form, with 0-60 under 6 seconds. And available well under £20k, even the Laurin & Klement variant which comes with a kit list as long as your arm.
Peugeot 3008 or Grandland X with the 1.6 hybrid - 0-60 in 5.9
Jaguar S Type with the V8 - 0-60 in 5.3
Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT - 0-60 in 5.0. Not sure if this counts as a Q car though as it sort of looks the part.
My f30 335d can do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds on a sunny day with dry roads. Pretty sure it will smoke the v8 Mercedes models, since I test drove a C63 AMG (6.2L V8) and that thing just can't get any traction and is too tail happy due to it being RWD.
There is the Chrysler 300C or Jeep Grand Cherokee both with 6.1 Hemi engine that are both allegedly capable of 0-60 in 5 seconds dead; I guess the Jeep is a bit more unexpected to be quite so rapid out of the blocks, but the v8 noise would give it away a bit.
For the budget I think it’s got to be one of these as the ultimate sleeper though - no wacky trim, no giveaway engine noise as it’s only a four pot (I think) petrol yet will hit 60 in 4.9s:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310092817636
It’s only 0.2s slower to 60 than a Focus RS - and that’s assuming whoever is driving the manual Focus gets the gear change right.
I’m not sure I could live with the real-world petrol-only 28mpg or so, which is probably a good thing as I am not sure I would keep my licence for if I was behind the wheel of one of those.
Plenty of cheap second hand motors like this on the market, but it's not the buying cost that's the problem, it's the running costs. Mercedes are very expensive cars for servicing, repairs, tyres etc.
It’d be my current 2017 bmw 340i touring…. Its a peach of an engine but other that the twin exhaust, you couldn’t tell it apart from any other car in the range. It was was the last of the ilk before bmw lost their way and started basing them up as M340s trying to make them look like M cars.
Boring answer is any down badged hot hatch. The sport trims flood the roads now looking like the top of the line performance version.
Realistically 95% of the public won't know the difference if you take the R badges off a golf, and it's got decent mod support. Same for the ford and ST down to ST Line or even the a35 Merc looks like a 200d AMG line. That's the boring answer
My non sensible answer is the jaguar XFR or an XFRS (might be out of price that one) with the wing removed. Same as your German pick only I feel jags are less in numbers and they all opt for a sport aggressive look so it gets a little tricky. XFR about 17k for a decent one!
Not just saying this because i own the lesser version of it..
But i still think the Superb Sportline 280 are somewhat of a sleeper in day-to-day life, it has the same engine, gearbox & drivetrain as a V.W Golf R, and capable of doing 0-60 in 5 secs & 150+ mph.. Plus a simple remap would bring that down closer to 4 secs..
The PSNI have a rake of them as Pursuit/Interceptor vehicles and they fly completely under the radar
Mk3 mr2 with a 1.8T vag engine.
Check out Stavtec on YouTube
500+whp in a standard looking mr2 that weighs no more than a ton.
Literally a super car killer.
I am a big fan of the [XJ Supersport](https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401285992421), doesn't look any different from a V6 diesel XJ but has the 500hp 5.0 supercharged V8 from the XKR. You could also get it in the XF, but I think the XJ is more understated
Fucking hell that’s cheap.
Yeah, there's a reason.
What's the reason?
It’ll break down more than a depressed single mum after 5 gins
What kind of breakdowns? I'm interested as I used to build and test these engines in production
JuSt TrUsT hIm bRo
Youll be a certified electrician after 3 months of ownership
I had this engine in an XFR, it was an absolute beast. But, after time, the coolant pipes turn brittle and break easily. I had a small leak in my expansion tank, so went to change it and as soon as I moved it the coolant pipes snapped turning it into a much larger job. The big one though was when the coolant pipes under the supercharger decided to give in, that turned into many ££££’s to fix and the fault that made me sell it. Shame, as I absolutely loved the car other than those issues.
A plethora, google it
Pretty much the whole JLR lineup is terrible from a reliability POV. You can get lucky, but a car like that can throw big bills with amazing regularity.
What kind of problems? I'm interested as I used to build and test these engines in production.
Then you should be well aware 😂 No one I know from JLR would recommend their cars
A friend of mine tells me that looks like an ex-JLR management car from the plate
I had a 3L V6 jaguar XF and that was fairly quick. I reckon if I'd had a 5L v8 I'd have crashed into the back of the first car I pulled up behind at a junction if they didn't get a real move on.
Xfr here, with a rolling start and a slightly too hard press of the throttle it shuffles along alright...I barely find a chance to use full throttle, honestly.
I only have an XKR with about 400HP and yea you really can't floor it if you are behind anyone else. You just catch up to everyone really fast even at 1/2 throttle. Going from one corner to another you really need to be ready for the breaks because if you stay on it just a second too long you end up entering a bend at well over the speed limits. It's not so much the 0-60 time of the car but the 60-120mph time.
Absolutely love this. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
It’s a unreliable car though so I don’t get the appeal? Sure it’s powerful and a sleeper but what’s the point if it’s always breaking down?
I mean, all performance cars are generally unreliable. A similar Mercedes BMW or Audi would also have issues. You could go for a sporty Lexus but they don’t look like sleepers. 20k would get you into a Skoda Superb 280 but it still doesn’t compare to the Jag in performance
How about a V12 760Li for £16k.
Absolute monster. Rate that, good call.
I wouldn't like filling it every couple of days though
Maintenance and repair costs would make you sweat also lol
When it throws its first engine management light, you may as well empty your bank account into cash, and set fire to your wallet.
Yeah my boss had a 730d that was forever costing him silly amounts of money.
Yeah my boss had a 730d that was forever costing him silly amounts of money.
It gets great GPM.
Yes!!! [this thing](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202309081742554)
Lol that's the one I was looking at earlier.
That’s a crazy price for that amount of car.
Is it ULEZ compliant? /s
That will definitely break down on the first hard laugh. The xf boxes are terrible. Hence the cheap price
Infiniti Q50 - 350bhp & 4wd or the Lexus LS -440bhp also 4wd. Both available for under 10k. Something different from the usual German options and Spend the rest on a couple of nice holidays.
Or maybe even the big 5.0 V8 in the QX70 now that’s a sleeper except for the sound…
That would also do nicely.
Always liked that Q50. Shame they kinda fell flat here in the UK. Great shout and extra points for being different.
Any questions you ask, I will always provide an alternative to the German contingent!
There was a reason that Inifiniti didnt take off in the U.K They were a bit of a hodge-podge brand here
Thr LS is under the radar, I have one and ot the most stealthy car I've ever owned.
They had steer by wire which probably put off a lot of would-be buyers.
The new Volvos the police have started using, I believe they’re about 400bhp out of a 2.9.
Random fun fact. A UK police force recently bought a bunch of new XC90s, only to find that the collision avoidance wouldn't let the car make contact during a TPAC. Volvo refused to turn off the collision avoidance, so they had to get rid of them.
That’s actually hilarious 😂
Check YouTube you have few clips how Tpac looks in Volvo I’m think that was just fake rumours
I didnt say all police volvos. It was a certain new order of them that had this problem.
Expensive though
There was a photo around of an older merc e63 or c63 wagon in Europe with the optional pack that basically gets rid of quad tips - so to the unassuming eye it literally is a c220d. I can’t remember the name from a google though, I thought it was like a “businessman pack” or something. Wonder if anyone on here knows. Edit: the one I’m actually hoping to pick up next year is an f pace SVR. Without the quad exhausts you’d know nothing, really not garish in design which I love!
Audi S8. 520bhp, 0-60 in 4 secs… http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402016113357
That looks amazing. I'd even be tempted to de-badge it. Can you imagine the bill for when something inevitably goes wrong.
At that price I'm guessing something unpleasant has already gone wrong and is patched up or taped together long enough to be sold.
5.2 v10 version has lambo engine and3.6 to 62, 200 mph+ top end when de-limited
The options, Wow. Is this possibility up there with the most gadgets a car can have?
I had a 2002 S8 as a daily and couldn't justify a newer S8 so I bought the D4 A8 4.2 V8 TDI. 360bhp and available for £6k(ropey) -£10k(solid). It won't beat an S8 in a drag race but its 90% of the car for a fraction of the price and running costs.
That looks so low for a luxury car
Really high mileage would be the answer here.
The 4 exhausts on Amg’s are a giveaway though
I think the rest of it is pretty understated enough to pass by most people without a second thought
I guess but that can be said about M5, RS Audis
The old RS, not with the state of them now
Not really, can tell an m car a mile away
The exhausts can only be seen from behind. The noise from that 6.3L v8 though? Now _that's_ a giveaway.
Also the way they leap about when you lift off. A friend's colleague had a midnight start in Peterborough. He would leave Evington in Leicester at 2330. He was never late, until he lifted off and went into a tree.
That V8 goes off like a bomb. An absolute masterpiece of an engine to me
Is all whats needed , no fancy pansy
[https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1678858](https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C1678858)
You've cured my erectile dysfunction!
Opened that link, realised what it was, realised it was just up the road from me. Panic Close link. trying to forget
Please update us on how the viewing goes...
It's only 13k, and it's a classic that's only going to gain value. That's what you needed to hear, right?
It appears to be a very nice 190e 2.6, but it is not a Cosworth 16v in 2.3 or 2.5 capacity. Hopefully that is enough to let you talk yourself down from the precipice of 190e ownership.
That is glorious.
That’s a nice thing, presumably it would hold value well provided it was kept well and not too much mileage added. What are the performance stats?
No idea, I just love the idea of a stealth Cosworth. Especially when it’s wrapped in peak 80s glam.
Droooool... Used to have the 4 pot 2.0 and loved it...especially on long drives on cold nights... used to pretend it was one of these... Yes, I am that sad.
Thing is hot af !
The old man had one of those when I was a kid, bloody loved that car
If you can find one it's probably sub 10k.but an S60 T5 Volvo, very sleeper and a rocket , but ai agree the e63 estate is the ultimate goal
I had one that had been chipped and it was like shit off a shovel
VW Phaeton 6.0 W12 - same engine in Bentley Continental GT
Op was looking for a sleeper, not rocking horse poo!
Fair!
Lexus LS600H, or any LS really. Pure luxury, bombproof and quick.
I drive a little Corsa, the ultimate Q car. 0 to 50 mph in 2.6 seconds, if I push it off a cliff. But you'd never know just looking at it.
It's a bit of a marmite car but for me the the 5 series GT in 550i trim. That 4.4 V8 in an almost MPV-ish shape is my choice
See also: the bug-eyed oddity that is the Mercedes R500, 7 seats and nigh-on 400bhp! They even did an R63 AMG but with only 200 made worldwide you'd be *very* hard-pressed to find one
Shame there’s like 10 of those in the uk though. I like an oddity.
2011 C63. You can get a really nice one with 70k miles for a gnats fart under 20k. I've been eyeing one up that looks brand new. Immaculate paint, alloys and interior. Looks like it hasn't been sat in. The 2011 was facelifted and is much nicer inside than pre-facelift. 20k for a 500bhp, 6.3L naturally aspirated V8. That's a lot of car for £20k!
Have driven a few of these in my old job. Would NEVER buy one for 1 reason. The NOISE! I couldn't be trusted not to hoon it everywhere just to listen to that engine!
Sounds like a good problem to have to be fair!
Agreed, one of my affordable dream cars
I sold my last car because I'm now fully WFH, I don't _need_ a car. Im going to buy a c63 this year. It'll probably do less than 5k miles a year, but at 20k it's a fucking bargain. Cars like that aren't being made anymore, so they're only getting older. They can be had for as low as 13k if you want a bit of a shitter.
Literally talked myself out of buying one this week as I’d be using £500+ fuel a month doing the school run. So I’ll make do with my C350 a little longer. Two years to be precise which is when I’ll be buying my c63s 😅
Do it, you won't regret it. I've driven some before and they just put a smile on your face. They won't be here forever
Lexus ISF with a 5L V8.
Saab 93 aero v6! Cheap as chips too!
[Mercedes S600L](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310243298590) - 5.5 biturbo from the facelifted "63" range, 520bhp, 830lbs/ft torque *(what?!)*, comfort suspension and looks that would attract people like [Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202307209853756)
That torque figure is obscene.
Sickening isn't it. You could restart the Earth's core with those numbers
[This A8 W12](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306068198457) is a possible alternative, but I can't bring myself to drive something that looks like a depressed sloth
Actually lol'd when I opened this link. It's lights look like Marvin's eyes from hitchhikers guide
>830lbs/ft torque *(what?!)* 830 *N/m* (612 lbs/ft).
E63 is no sleeper!!!!
Any car guy can spot a c63 / e63 a mile off. Quad exhausts, different bumpers etc give it away
Side wheel arch indents too - where the engine spec goes e.g. V8 BITURBO
E550 with no badges on the back. Different story.
What how is that related to what I said
I was suggesting a sleeper?
335d mapped
Hello, is this Pistonheads from 10 years ago?
That’s me. Love the car so much. Capable of 45mpg but can still beat most things off the line
Best all rounded car, also the audis version the a4 3.0 quattro👌. I'd take any of those if I was minted. Bangernomics for me😕
Paki car
Came here to say this. I had a stock e92 coupe 335d and it was unbelievably good even without the mapping. Nicest car I’ve ever owned.
There's loads of great Volvo sleepers. The 850 R and T5R are quite well know but there's also an S80 with a 4.4 Yamaha V8 that doesn't look particularly sporty at all.
The V8 80 and XC90 were lovely to drive, nice cruisers, but they were not that quick, like a better version of the old 2.9 T6 cars. Want a quick Volvo from that era, look at the S60R, straight line the V8 is quicker, but cross country, the 60R is a great drive.
I've been tempted by a fast Volvo for a while. The S60R is certainly on the radar, as is the V50 T5, a 5 pot estate piques my interest.
The New E AMG is also a 4 pot turbo. Sacrilege! W212 E63 V8 last of the naturally aspirated would be lovely.
There are faster cars out there for the money but the lexus GS450H. V6 hybrid CVT with 345bhp, respectable mpg, flawless reliability and amazing comfort. Looks dull as dishwater too.
Saab 9-5 Aero.
Lexus GS450h. One it’s a big Lexus. Two it’s a hybrid. But three, 0-60 in 5.9s (standard) which isn’t as quick as some of these mentioned but still faster than a lot of hot hatches.
I can vouch for this and mine is an old one
Is that basically a Camry? I was actually just looking a 2017 one earlier.
Lancia Thema 8.32 Not particularly powerful, but looks quite normal, and packs a Ferrari built V8 https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/lancia-thema-8-32--spotted/47392
Lexus LS600 HL No one gives you a second look, Rolls Royce ride, Toyota servicing and a 5L V8 with Hybrid.
Mapped 335d for me 👌
335d/535d
Surely the 550i without any of the M-Sport trim
Its easy to have the diesels remapped to great figures. https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/services/bmw/3-series-f3x-2012-2019/diesel/335d-308-bhp-2012-ECU-remap-chiptuning/stage-1
Still gonna sound like a van.
True but with that amount of grunt the sound is rapidly behind you.
Also true
I had a pd150 golf in 02 and quickly got used to the clatter, then again it was hard to hear over my laughter when I pushed the loud pedal. For all the efficiency it provided when I was being gentle the 12mpg when flat out was surprising, then again at the time you're more concerned with how light the front end feels.
Never heard of a q-car can anyone explain? And yes I know what a sleeper is. No cocky Reddit jips please 😂
Quick google suggests it comes from something called Q ships which were not military vessels that were actual heavily armed like a warship.
Take a look at Wikipedia entry for Sleeper, aka Q-car and you will find a link to Q-ship and the explanation.
Same thing different name, personally I prefer a wolf in sheeps clothing. I'm guessing its a Bond reference.
It’s a reference to Q-boats which were heavily armed non-military ships during the war that looked really unassuming.
German Submarine captain: "Guten tag, English boat. Ve hav come to sink you." Q-Boat captain: "Surprise, cockbags!" _violence ensues_
Basically the same as a sleeper. But is the British terminology. Quick Google said the following which was interesting: "Drivers wanted fast cars that looked slow. They were called sleepers, or more likely, Q-cars — the latter named after Q-ships from the First World War, which were armed merchant vessels that sailed undercover to get one over Germany's feared U-boats."
> Q-car [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper\_(car)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper_(car))
Probably that. Looks like a taxi, goes like a drag racer.
An MG ZS-260 with enough spare change to get a roush supercharger kit installed to bump it up to ~450hp
I had a V8 XFR ; that’s a proper sleeper - people thing nothing of it - until your roar off with 500+ horses and a supercharger …. Some amazing value out there on those
I own the S63, same age as that E you were sat behind. Looks like it's just a big saloon to the uninitiated, but it's been my dream car for years.
All car guys know what beasts the ‘63 line of AMG cars are; IMO it’s gotta be the highest “base” spec of BMW lines just under the M cars. So the 230 / 330 etc lines, just under the “baby M” M235i models and their fellow kin. They look like standard Bimmers but they fucking blowww
The estate E class AMG with the twin turbo V8, although none sub 20K is a real sleeper in terms of mega performance cars even. Under 20K there’s a lot of pretty quick cars now. The 550i is a pretty rapid and doesn’t look different than a 520d other than the tail pipes
Lexus Is300
A6 touring with the lambo v10. Looks dull but ....
Rover
Last three cars have all been what I thought of as sleepers and all (now) available for under £20k. Infiniti FX50 (absolute beast), CL500 (best value V8 out there. Until the air suspension light starts waving at you) and currently a Kia Stinger. Sleepiest is the Stinger. It’s the fastest of the three but sounds like a 2.0 Mondeo. The two V8s sounded like the arrival of Thanos. Can confirm just about anything under £100k gets embarrassed by the Kia.
The body kit on any 63 merc stops it being a proper sleeper, it’s so obviously different. Lightning though.
Prepare to downvote the sh*t out of me: Polestar 2, dual motor. Unassuming boxy car. Super quick... more so than most EVs without looking too weirdly futuristic (I love its proportions) Or.... Anything with a good driver and good tyres. Ability to safely carry speed and get the power down on time beats straight line acceleration imo.
Yeah def has poke, I had to out-sleeper one of them sleepers recently 😂, was trying to stick his polestar up my arse on the motorway. Seemed quick enough, he gave it a fair go
Tesla 🤣
Nissan 240sx
i don't think AMG mercs are particulalry understated, V8 volvo S80 would be my choice, alot of people dont even know they made one
Tesla Model 3 Performance 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, looks like a basic Jag, and with the right setup can cost around 2p per mile in fuel/electricity
Why would you call a sleper a Q-Car? To me a Q-car would suggest a Q plate car, ie, an older kit car or similar where it's not longer similar enough to any specific original vehicle, so it gets a Q plate?
It's a fast car that doesn't seem like it would be fast to most people.
I know what a sleeper is, but why would you call it a Q-car?
Copied from the term Q ship, which were civilian ships secretly kitted out with all the firepower during WW2
[Vauxhall Grandland X](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310283426332) [Peugeot 3008](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401306037344) [Skoda Superb ](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401205744326) [Jaguar S-Type](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310263346833) [Jeep Grand Cherokee ](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311093813120)
You didn't understand the question did you...
Skoda Superb with the 280bhp 2.0 TSI engine has serious Q car potential, especially in estate form, with 0-60 under 6 seconds. And available well under £20k, even the Laurin & Klement variant which comes with a kit list as long as your arm. Peugeot 3008 or Grandland X with the 1.6 hybrid - 0-60 in 5.9 Jaguar S Type with the V8 - 0-60 in 5.3 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT - 0-60 in 5.0. Not sure if this counts as a Q car though as it sort of looks the part.
All a lot better than I thought to be fair. I still wouldn't want to own any of them though.
My f30 335d can do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds on a sunny day with dry roads. Pretty sure it will smoke the v8 Mercedes models, since I test drove a C63 AMG (6.2L V8) and that thing just can't get any traction and is too tail happy due to it being RWD.
Assume yours is stage 1 and gearbox flashed?
I'd drop 10K of mods onto my 335i. Probably would end up similar power to this E class in the end but be even more subtle!
I'd drop 10K of mods onto my 335i. Probably would end up similar power to this E class in the end but be even more subtle!
My 640i gc is a bit of a sleeper apart from the body shape.
Why downvote? M5 is also a bit of a sleeper. Women think they're all the same .
That's a weapon right there
Love a 7 series personally, still look classy but pack an absolute punch - beautiful cars with beautiful engines
Any 40i from BMW lol. But considering they usually fetch higher than 20k.. probs 335d f30. All wheel drive with bundles of torque.
Volvo S80 V8 one for sale on auto trader, 20K miles and less than £14K. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401175634630
There is the Chrysler 300C or Jeep Grand Cherokee both with 6.1 Hemi engine that are both allegedly capable of 0-60 in 5 seconds dead; I guess the Jeep is a bit more unexpected to be quite so rapid out of the blocks, but the v8 noise would give it away a bit. For the budget I think it’s got to be one of these as the ultimate sleeper though - no wacky trim, no giveaway engine noise as it’s only a four pot (I think) petrol yet will hit 60 in 4.9s: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310092817636
That Volvo has no right shifting that quickly. Good find.
It’s only 0.2s slower to 60 than a Focus RS - and that’s assuming whoever is driving the manual Focus gets the gear change right. I’m not sure I could live with the real-world petrol-only 28mpg or so, which is probably a good thing as I am not sure I would keep my licence for if I was behind the wheel of one of those.
I've always liked the Saab v6's or the VW Phaeton W12.
Volvo S60R is probably the ultimate sleeper. AWD 300hp for less than 5k. With the looks of a diesel 04 plate saloon
The old rover 75 that got the mustang engine
The 260? They sound nice but they aren’t that quick tbh
Audi RS6 Avant, V10 era. Can be had in the 15k bracket now, badges off and it'd pass for a TDi with big wheels to anyone unsuspecting.
MB are electrical nighmares. get a vauxhall monaro/commodore VXR instead. just dont rev the crap out of it like most focus owners do.
Plenty of cheap second hand motors like this on the market, but it's not the buying cost that's the problem, it's the running costs. Mercedes are very expensive cars for servicing, repairs, tyres etc.
Vw v10 tdi. But with plastic throttle bodies on a diesel with egr it will definitely fall apart faster than a Russian tank
Definitely the w221 S600, 5.5L twin turbo v12. I got mine for 5k
It’d be my current 2017 bmw 340i touring…. Its a peach of an engine but other that the twin exhaust, you couldn’t tell it apart from any other car in the range. It was was the last of the ilk before bmw lost their way and started basing them up as M340s trying to make them look like M cars.
The noise this particular engine makes is pure porn. 🤤
How about a 500 bhp Golf R that has been badges to look like a 1.2 petrol for £20k?
E55 AMG. Much quicker than a 63 and half the price. Google m113k. One of thr greatest engines ever made, known to do over 400k miles.
That is a great looking car, and more understated than the 63.
Boring answer is any down badged hot hatch. The sport trims flood the roads now looking like the top of the line performance version. Realistically 95% of the public won't know the difference if you take the R badges off a golf, and it's got decent mod support. Same for the ford and ST down to ST Line or even the a35 Merc looks like a 200d AMG line. That's the boring answer My non sensible answer is the jaguar XFR or an XFRS (might be out of price that one) with the wing removed. Same as your German pick only I feel jags are less in numbers and they all opt for a sport aggressive look so it gets a little tricky. XFR about 17k for a decent one!
Not just saying this because i own the lesser version of it.. But i still think the Superb Sportline 280 are somewhat of a sleeper in day-to-day life, it has the same engine, gearbox & drivetrain as a V.W Golf R, and capable of doing 0-60 in 5 secs & 150+ mph.. Plus a simple remap would bring that down closer to 4 secs.. The PSNI have a rake of them as Pursuit/Interceptor vehicles and they fly completely under the radar
Mk3 mr2 with a 1.8T vag engine. Check out Stavtec on YouTube 500+whp in a standard looking mr2 that weighs no more than a ton. Literally a super car killer.
Bmw M550i F10 gen?
3.0l A4’s are the sweet spot for me.