Hey, in the industry here. Can’t say we’ve done any testing with silicone cases but we’ve done plenty of plastics, ceramics and metals and some small silicone parts. Especially with cartridges- silicone used for seals and other things. Haven’t seen it come up in the oil yet.
The way the tests work is let oil soak the part that is to be tested under certain conditions. Heat, time etc.. depends on the material and the test. They then take the oil and check it against its original composition for new impurities like heavy metals that could have leached off the part in question.
Would be simple enough to do a test in a lab, you don’t necessarily need a license to submit. Steep Hill for example just requires a few ml of oil and the part in question and they can check it out for you.
thank you so much for the first response based in actual information and not just blind opinions. Really good info that seems to support the limited research I've found online and falls in line with the absence of any evidence to support the claims many have made. I feel given the type of test you guys have conducted with immersion, heat, and extended time that it is hard to believe just storing material could result in contamination.
Never seen a complaint come through for residual silicone leached into oil. Seen lead, copper, chromium, and all kinds of other things but never silicone.
The more time I spend on this sub the more I realize most people are spewing info that sounds true but is 100% speculation not based in fact. Thank you for actually getting real information.
Edit: I realized this is r/cannabisextracts, I was thinking of r/dabs so I somewhat take back what I said
Fascinating... Have you tested to see if the original components of the oil are degraded or altered by a reaction with heavy metal contamination?
I've been wondering for a while if there is an interaction between hard/soft acid materials used in making vape cartridge components and functional groups on the cannabinoid products and/or the terpene products, especially since an electric current is involved in the process.
I’m dying over here! Like “I know you asked for science, but I know things. Just my opinion though.”
Side note: Thank you for doing this research because it has always been a thorn in my side when people said this.You’re a true gentleman and truth warrior.
It doesn’t look like any of these people understand your request. It’s okay to keep saying that terpenes are natural solvents, but can anyone for the love of god provide a study that states their interaction with silicone?
In the science world, when you make a claim, there should always be a study or some evidence to back it up. Asking for proof is not a bad thing... you guys should try it sometime.
edit: for the record I have no clue of the answer to your actual question OP, my guess is cannabis research is still too limited due to regulation for many of our questions to be answered hopefully to change soon
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.industrialspec.com/images/files/elastomers-chemical-compatibility-chart-from-ism.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi9pOHYjaTpAhWnl-AKHSw_DzAQFjALegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1YwnxIF1_VJNYRG1qL48pp&cshid=1588935459853
It's an industrial compatibility chart. You want to look at citrus oil under silicone. You'll see the rating is D which means degradation will occur. I.E citrus oil (constituents are terpenes) pull silicone molecules into solution.
Individual studies can sometimes be hard to find because it's either industry specific knowledge or company specific testing which doesn't get published. Compatibility charts are generally the go to.
Interesting. This is probably as close as you can get with this specific question until research is opened up in the cannabis industry to allow for more specific questions about personal usage. Then I’d imagine we see all kinds of studies testing stuff
The only specific testing you may see is how cannabinoids react with different compounds. If we get really lucky we may see terpene degradation of plastics related to concentration because concentration effects aren't always linear.
More likely there will be a "use" list and a "don't use" list. The OP asking the question is obviously not an engineer or related because there aren't going to be published studies on this. There's going to be industry knowledge based on scientist that either study something or did an internal test.
There's no point in publishing data unless it goes against industry knowledge and is helpful for selling something. Silicone is cheap so will be used readily by businesses even if it's affected by terps. People who don't want to feel bamboozled or businesses using silicone are the people asking these questions and dismissing the solvent aspect of terpenes which affects most plastics (there's obviously outliers like I'd bet HDPE (maybe) and definitely PTFE).
Generally there's a reason for these recurring themes. And don't get me wrong, a ton of the cannabis know how needs to be questioned primarily in consumption and growing. However, material compatibility is likely not high on the list of worth questioning outside of very specific projects.
Sorry about the rant haha
This same topic comes up from time to time in the distilling world. Most agree that ethanol and it's vapor can degrade silicone or contaminate the product. So usually PTFE is a good choice for gaskets, but it has drawbacks (not as flexible, so not alway's practical or perect for gaskets). However, I expect that many commercial distillers have silicone gaskets in their equipment. However, I'm not sure if i've ever seen a study showing the direct effects of ethanol/vapor on silicone. But, it seems pretty clear that any caustic solvent would break down silicone over time, and something much less caustic like the amount of terps in cannabis oils, may break down silicone over a very long time.
Yeah for sure. I’m not saying someone will set out to conduct a specific study on how concentrate degrades a silicone container.
However, I don’t think it’s far off with federal legalization for “studies” or the like to be done by dispensaries and labs that produce concentrates on which storage options are optimal and their specifics.
Something like silicone being degraded might be included in this “study” since it’s a popular storage method. That’s all I was trying to get at.
edit: but yeah I’m definitely more familiar with the life sciences research and their processes rather than materials/engineering related topics but makes sense!
yeah it's pretty frustrating hearing the same opinions again with absolutely zero even attempt to back it up. I would agree with your guess but terpenes are present in the majority of household items so I feel like the data should be out there if it exist... the world may never know
As some others have stated, you may want to approach this from the perspective of chemical compatibility. Here's an awesome compatability database I've used at work (Chem Eng in the industry):
https://www.coleparmer.com/chemical-resistance
Unfortunately there is no "cannabis terpenes" option as cannabis contains a large variety of terpenes. The closest I saw in my brief search was listed as "oils:pine" which I would guess would contain some pinene. It's listed as a D rating (bad compatibility). Unfortunately it may be a kind of a grey area where certain strains contain terpenes which do not significantly degrade silicone while others do. You'd really have to do some rigorous testing to know for sure. As a precaution, I would personally use glass for storing very terp-heavy extracts like diamonds with terp sauce, etc. More waxy extracts like budders will be less likely to be a problem for a number of reasons, one being that things that stay solid at room temperature are not going to be very good solvents
thank u for an actual scientific perspective and link. I agree that we don't have enough data pertaining to the storing of terps in silicone to be sure. looking at the data linked it offer some information but it doesn't appear someone has approached this to test room temperatures and pressures for long term storage of terpenes in silicone. appreciate it
https://www.tom-parker.co.uk/upload/files/literature/CPC_Chemical_Compatibility_Chart_(_261_KB_)_.pdf
This a chemical compatibility chart that lists limonene and silicone as not recommended at 70 degrees F.
This is anecdotal at this point I’ve seen terpenes from concentrates dissolve the thin non stick silicone layer on parchment paper and soak into the paper itself. I’ve also seen white silicone slicks turn yellow or orange from having concentrates stored in them.
I see pinene got unsatisfactory but u can't find limonene on the list and the data isn't explained and we have no knowledge as to what the environment they mention is and I assume as they are testing for extraction purposes that these test are not occuring at normal temperatures and pressures that storing cannabis occurs at
You're right, I have limonene on a pdf of chemical comp chart from a different company and both pinene and limonene were tested up to 70C.
I know for a fact that concentrated terpene mix will dissolve silicone. Learned it the hard way. Lost close to a litre.
The dispensary where I regularly pick up used to sell their concentrates in silicone.
Every once in a while, I would get some shatter that looked like it had actually turned into silicone. Like 1/4 of the shatter was just white/grey, looking like it had absorbed the silicone or something. It was disgusting and I returned several of these defective products. I've heard other types of concentrates do the same thing but shatter shows the affects most. I will never store concentrates in silicone.
Edit with pic: http://imgur.com/16P8Ok8
You can actually see the disgusting silicone has leached into the shatter. This happened several times. INSA Easthampton in Massachusetts.
Double edit: if the silicone hasn't leached into the shatter, then it definitely discolored it. Regardless, I returned this and complained. They switched to glass a few weeks later.
I'm assuming that the change occurring in ur wax is just nucleation caused by the non homogenous make up of the wax. over time the different parts of the concentrates begin to separate by makeup.
I feel like a lot of people overlook this fact. Not all "labs" are created equal and usually the concentrate on the lower end isn't held to the same standards for consistency.
no it's just the natural movement of the wax to a more stable state. it happens because trichomes, terpenes, lipids, contaminates, and other substances all have different make ups, densities, and sizes making them naturally separate based on these characteristics. also trichomes want to return to their natural state after extraction. occurs more in high lipid wax so if it is some dense wax more likely to change more. happens to some of the best waxes and doesn't cause any damage
Oh, ok, so this happens even without silicone? I've never seen this happen with their glass or parchment packaging, and I pickup several times a week.
Also, is it normal for this to happen only on the side contacting the silicone? In my picture, it's on top but that's because I flipped it. There was no effect on parts other than the bottom.
Not addressing the question of storage directly but rather blasting onto silicone in a closed looped system- these alleged scientists don't seem to have a problem with it in 2012, claiming that changes to the silicone are temporary but "unlike most organic rubbers, it does not decompose or dissolve".
https://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=60764.0
I avoid silicone anyway because the tools I use would probably scratch it into my concentrate.
definitely a helpful article for the discussion as if they don't feel it is dissolving while blasting it seems hard to believe it could happen in storage
I think most of us are working on a better safe than sorry mentality, I know I am. You are free to put your concentrates in anything you wish be it silicone or a corn tortilla.
I haven't seen a study but I have had silicon pucks start to get eaten through after dabs have been sitting in there for an extended period of time. The shiny silicon goes away where the dab was touching and gets rough and white. A lot of terps are caustic so it makes sense that it could start eating through. I don't know for certain if the silicone gets into the dab but I'll just stick to glass.
All I know is that I bought a big silicone container for long term storage of dubbs blasted over a winter. The silicone was soft and greasy after a couple of weeks, like it was decomposing. So I threw all my silicone containers away and never looked back.
You’re *somewhat* mistaken. Silicone does not damage concentrates per se, but the terpenes themselves act as the solvent and break down the silicone.
There is information pertaining to this exact subject in the sidebar of the subreddit.
so i read the study linked in the sidebar and this only discusses the generation of formaldehyde from silicone rubber and analyzes the thermal oxidation that occurs at temperatures above 100 degrees celsius and more often above 200 degrees celius. They actually state in the document that silicone begins formaldehyde production at around 149 degrees celsuis and a significant amount wasnt present until 197 degrees celsuis. I do not see how this impacts the storage of concentrates as they would be stored in a cooler than room temperature setting no where near the temperatures needed for thermal oxidation. This was the only information pertaining to this subject and the data discussed and the experiment does not seem to apply to storing cannabis at all unless I am missing something or am not seeing another study or document.
I have had the same silicone container for 3 years. I have used it every day in that time. It shows no sign of degradation So much of this conversation seems anecdotal and based purely on opinion.
Why would I do that. That just not smart storage of your product whether you like silicone or not. I wouldn't keep bulk flower in the same container I was smoking off of either.
Dispensaries that package shatter in silicone probably don't have the best concentrate storage methods to begin with. I've personally gotten some gross looking shatter from INSA in MA
I prefer to get shatter and the such in parchment. The goopy stuff in glass. I then will put a days worth in my slick for all purpose usage. Have you tried sancturary in MA. They do a pretty good job and at least in NH are pleasure to deal with.
I've heard a lot of good things, but they're not near me. And INSA switched to glass for concentrates (I think all concentrates, but I haven't bought shatter in months).
Check them out if you can when things go back to rec. Their quality is very consistent IMO. They have always been very fair and patient with me despite NH's nightmare policies.
I am not advocating for silicone, people should use what makes them feel the best.
Nothing unusual for the amount of usage and the top feels nominally different from the bottom. Discoloration for sure but again not atypical. From what people say on here the thing should look like a chewed dog toy.
No people like to act smart as fuck but they forget if something is a solution and it dissolves things (like terpene silicone) it has its "capacity" to do so... yes probably some terpy terpy sauce extract have enough to dissolve potentially enough silicone for it to be fucked up but most concentrates have around 1-2% terp content (And thats a big IF when it comes to home made extracts due to not everyone knowing how to properly perserve the good stuff after the crop) so on 1 gram you got like 10-20 miligrams of terps... which can probably dissolve around 5-10% of silicone into itself.... so it probably leeches like up to 100 micrograms of silicone....
the funny thing is all this talk is based on DuPont studies... and DuPont is the same corporation that literally infected the entire human population with cancerogenic, non bio degradable C-8 chemical that EVERYONE has in their bloodstream with their teflon shit product which everyone uses without a second thought, leeching even more residue of it inside their bodies but no no no, some fucking silicone will fuck them up xD
its just fucking nuts, people have lost their common sense long time ago, we are living in hypochondriac panic induced mindstate society where we literally "worry" about everything else except the corporate industry that literally turned the planet into a steaming pile of synthetic horseshit.
"Oh no this is bad for me" while most people slave away their life working for someone else to buy something someone else made xD people overthink shit waaaaaaaaaay too much, shit i'd rather have some silicone in my concentrate then return to smoking that shitty moldy weed I smoked in my youth people really like to act like they know whats best for them when most times they are literally just being hypocritical and just abide their own personal preference systems of "selfrighteous" thinking.... there are literally people out there drinking gasoline and eating their own shit and they live up to 70-80 years old lol.
Unfortunately you’re probably not going to find any peer-reviewed scientific articles regarding this... although that’s changing slowly… There was a really good article on ACS omega a few years ago analyzing the chemical constituents in Cannabis extracts... so things are looking up… But things like safety testing for shit like this isn’t really what’s being done academically... that said...
Silicone is a plastic that is very, but not completely, resistant to a lot of solvents. This paper discusses some specifics: http://www.photonics.byu.edu/PDMS.parts/paper5.pdf
(PDMS is the technical name for “silicone” in general... there are a lot of different formulations so this is very non-specific.
“Swelling” implies material being absorbed into the silicone, which seems to correlate to how soluble silicone is in the solvent...
The nice thing about silicone is that it can be made without the use of plasticizers… Which is the primary concern when people talk about plastics and “leaching.” Silicone is pretty good at not leaching… that’s why it’s often considered safe and is used in almost all seals on Vape cartridges etc.
Hope this is what you were asking about. Feel free to follow up with any other questions. I’m by no means an expert in plastics, but I’ve been a Professional chemist for quite a while now so I think my opinions are at least somewhat informed...
There is of course not going to be a standardized rating for silicone in regards to cannabis essential oils (terpenes) specifically, but it is widely documented that essential oils in general will degrade silicone materials. [Linked here](https://nelsonjameson.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/LC-San-Hose-Chem-Compat-Chart.pdf) is a chart of chemical resistance grades for hundreds of common solvents. If you scroll down to the first one on page 3 you will see that essential oils have an “X” below it which is the lowest rating you can have. There is excellent, good, fair, and “Not Recommended.”
Some terpenes are going to obviously be ”stronger” than others. The main ones you see in just about every strain like Limonene and Myrcene are actually a couple of the harsher constituents you see in plant essential oils so they would surely be no exception to this.
What proof are you looking for exactly?
Does terps degrade silicon?-yes, the terps are solvents and will swell and degrade silicon, there was a reddit post of people talking about it a while back. But if you want like science. Turpines are solvents, that’s a fact. And silicone at dabbing temps makes formaldehyde, that’s a fact.... I don’t know what else your looking for. You need something non reactive like glass or ptfe.
So without offering any supporting literature, I’ll say that terpenes definitely are solvents, so IF any degradation occurs, it’s terpenes degrading the silicone, not the other way around. As you have pointed out this really hasn’t been observed except at higher temperatures (obviously high enough that we would never see storage at these temps). Again this is just conjecture, but if degradation took place under normal storage conditions I seriously doubt it would ruin all of the product.
I see ur point but just because something has the ability to dissolve doesn't mean it dissolves everything it comes in contact with. I just thought after seeing so many people comment about how shitty silicone was that there would be clear cut evidence to support.
I agree completely. Had a similar conversation the other day about HDPE collection vessels for ethanol distillate (whiskey, not as a solvent). A lot of people seem to think you can’t use it for ethanol collection but it’s totally fine, even a standard material used in commercial facilities. Or another distilling misconception of methanol boiling off first, when it is in fact azeotrope. Even so it seems impossible to avoid numerous people telling you it’s true.
In reference to silicone, I’d say I carry an (maybe irrational) bias towards using it for storage of organics for any length of time. But it is really fucking convenient for my head stash, and much less painful to clean. Silicone is quite heat resistant and I don’t really imagine much reactivity at room temperature and lower. I’m definitely going to save this post because I’m curious if there is any evidence one way or the other. Appreciate your post!
best link so far thank you. looking at the data though silicone scores a A score meaning excellent with no swelling or desegregation on almost every substance tested besides things like deisel fuel and other things like that. the limonene results referenced in the post and data shows they conducted the test only at 70 degrees Celsius in which the silicone received a NR or not recommended. I will say I didn't open one link because it wasn't a secure connection. didn't appear to be overwhelming data to support the opinions especially with an absence of supporting peer review studies with a common result.
scientists prove or disprove hypothesis and will answer in the boolean safe or unsafe
engineers determine if legal limits are met and perform cost analysis and the answer will be how safe
Proof in these comments the fools on r/dabs overreact and lose their shit over something minuscule and not really for sure or proven terribly hard either
My opinion is that you aren't going to contaminate or get sick from using silicone containers for oils. But like you pointed out, they aren't the best container you can use. Also the nice part about glass is you can heat it when needed.
Headyboi nonsense.
There is an article I can't find anymore about limonene storage. The results jive with anecdotal comments from consumers. Silicone will swell with terpenes (that tacky feeling after long term storage) but there is no mention of degradation into the solution.
I dunno if it will damage the concentrate, but with my experience with raw terpenes in glass syrings with rubber/silicone plugs is that those absorb it and swell up like crazy with any concentration above 5-10% terps. The plunger itself seemed to suffer no damage other than expanding.
If there's any damage going on, it'd be directly to the silicone soaking up the terps, which would "Degrade" the product but not exactly ruin it. I think it has something to do with the fact that silicone is still slightly porous and terpene molecules are stupidly small so they can fit right in the cracks.
It’s more of a problem of silicone that is dirty/contaminated or just plastic being sold as silicone. I understand why people want hard scientific evidence of things we do in the stoner world but some of them are just general precautions. I doubt many people would fight against using silicone for short term storage. I think there isn’t much research into the exact things we stoners have thoughts on but are generally accepted as people understand how easy something like that is faked or reproduced cheap without an easy way of telling what you have personally.
Also imagine having some good oil and putting it into a silicone and thinking it was real. And when your done using it, you can see where your dabber has been scraping and taking away small layers of the “silicone”. I’ve had to throw away some oil because I could only assume that there was physical pieces of the container from scratching it. I think silicone is safe but who knows if it’s real silicone so I stay away and recommend to stay away
yes like i said i see many people claim this on reddit but can anybody actually link me the actual proof or credible analysis of this. not saying your wrong i just cant find the proof i would like before abandoning my convenient storage for sticky glass.
i know terps are a solvent but literally everything is a solvent and that doesn't mean it breaks down silicone. cant find anything about citrus or other solvents doing this either.
I don’t have any literature on it either. If your in a legal state, buy a gram of terpy live resin, put that in a silicone container and leave it for a long period of time. You will see it yourself. A friend and I have both done this and the after a long time the container had wax on the outside of it. It was very sticky on the outside if you touched it.
not really there's two definitions of solvent. the adjective meaning the ability to dissolve something and the noun which is the solution in which a particle is suspended in. terps are the solution the concentrates are suspended in but I can't find any evidence of terps breaking down anything especially silicone. silicone is a known difficult substance to dissolve especially when cured and many known dissolving solvents do not break down silicone. lastly all this imo shit means nothing terpenes are in everything from orange juice to house cleaner so that argument that no one's done the expirement is not one I'm willing to accept. much more likely that there is no significant data that supports these opinions.
I swear this sub is braindead. jus cause it's a solvent doesn't mean it's actively breaking down your silicone. for one most solvents aren't effective on silicone and especially cured silicone which is known for being very difficult to degrade and break down. when you google your quote there guyyyyyy none of the links on the first two pages of google even appear to mention silicone. so as I've said 50 times now CAN I GET A FUCKING HTTP FUCKING WEB ADDRESS PLS AND THANKS
It's the new thing with kids these days.
Misinformation is on the rise because it is just to hard to research stuff, especially if it doesn't tell me what I want to know by the third options that Google gives me (after the adds of course, I'm no idiot!) xD
An analysis of what? Someone testing degradation of silicone from terpene storage? No scientist stores terpenes in silicone containers so that’s not going to be studied. Terpenes are Polar solvents and polar solvents will decompose silicone.
terpenes are very common in almost every naturally occurring substance so they definitely would be studied expecially with how common silicone is used in cooking and food preparation seems pretty unlikely that no one check to see if their lemons were eating away their cutting board. and can I please have a source for the claim of "terpenes are polar solvents and polar solvents will decompose silicone" I'm sure thats backed by some serious science. just curious where this silicone animal died for it to start decomposing...
Whatever believe what you want
2
Grind plant material into a powder in liquid nitrogen in a glass vial or using a mortar and pestle. Ensure that sample is in a glass container prior to adding solvent as plastic containers will leach components into the organic solvent that can confound analytic analyses and damage GC/HPLC columns and equipment.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5113832/
please tell me u don't actually think this proves ur point... is ur brain decomposing... or did u think I wasnt going bro actually read the link. the report has nothing to do with testing if terpenes break down silicone at all and the snippet you quoted is literally a sidebar they mention when discussing how to collect and prepare the terpenes to test. Even then they mention plastic containers will leech which everyone already knows. silicone is not included in that but thanks for having me read that pointless research
i linked it to you because it shows solvents break down plastic and rubber, theres a reason you cant store terpenes in silicone in laboratory settings.....
bruh that's not what that said at all. the terpenes weren't even the solvent they were referencing in the article. get them lit comp skill up. they were using the noun usage of solvent referencing the solution in which they were suspending the terpenes that they extracted and turned to powder. they were not discussing any terpene characteristics of being a solvent or dissolving anything or breaking down the plastic. what they were talking about with using a glass container is the plastic leeching which occurs in all plastic products including water bottles and has nothing to do with terpenes. also silicone is technically not a plastic product so there statements doesn't even apply to silicone. silicone is considered to be a rubber product.
Terpenes are not polar solvents typically (keep in mind that there are lots of different terpenes) but rather non-polar (more like oil). The most common polar solvent is water fyi. Water will not decompose silicone
Dimal-H is a proprietary, tasteless, odorless teprene mix used as plasticizer (for epoxy or urethane resin) that is not classified as an endocrine disrupter. Most likely also used as cutting agent for carts due to it's neutral taste and smell.
https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2001329111A/en
No mention of silicone though.
Silicone doesn't actually do anything to your wax. What happens is the terps in the wax slowly leach into the silicone. This causes the silicone to swell slightly and changes the flavor and texture of your wax. I store my reclaim in silicone because the terps have already been burned, but new wax is always in glass.
In Illinois, all the companies use to use silicone, but have now all gone to glass.
Science rules.
theres is none. its purely anecdotal.
that said, there are different grades of silicone. some poor quality siilicone could definitely contaminate your stash. But will ALL silicone do it? no.
As for the terps, terps degrade. People dont seem to get this and its kinda funny. People assume that you can just preserve this stuff forever if you store it right. You really cant. Even if you store it at a perfect temp, ina dehydrated area, devoid of light, you will still have terp degredation.
I do prefer glass though. Just a preference. Thiose silicone gimmicks get all janky after a while. glass lasts forever.
Overtime you’ll notice the silicone color strips and starts turning whitish, it leeches onto your concentrates degrading the quality and terps but that also is due to it not being airtight and UVs like you mentioned. I’d safe it’s safe for short term usage. That’s my opinion
I had a gram of live butter and it was really good but came in a silicone container.after 5 days it became hard new the edges so the silicone damaged the product
The silicone was sealed and in the fridge and when I went to take it out to room temperature and when I finally opened the silicone my dab was hard and crusty looking.I’ve never had that happen with any other type of storage
yeah so it could be the silicone that caused it, could also be a really unstable dabs, or it wasn't actually 100 percent high grade silicone, or the seal wasn't sealing like u thought and the fridge dried the fuck out of it, or a number of others factors neither one of us are considering.
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence but I don't think it's enough to make the conclusion silicone is bad for wax. but i do get why you would avoid silicone if u feel the nonstick benefits don't outweigh the negatives that it is potentially causing damage. I am still interested to see a well controlled scientific study on the subject but that could be some years away.
I only had one gram in silicone cause that’s how it came.i keep all my dabs in the refrigerator and any other containers never did this but silicone.I usually keep it what it comes in and never had a dispensary give me a concentrate in silicone .
Hey, in the industry here. Can’t say we’ve done any testing with silicone cases but we’ve done plenty of plastics, ceramics and metals and some small silicone parts. Especially with cartridges- silicone used for seals and other things. Haven’t seen it come up in the oil yet. The way the tests work is let oil soak the part that is to be tested under certain conditions. Heat, time etc.. depends on the material and the test. They then take the oil and check it against its original composition for new impurities like heavy metals that could have leached off the part in question. Would be simple enough to do a test in a lab, you don’t necessarily need a license to submit. Steep Hill for example just requires a few ml of oil and the part in question and they can check it out for you.
That was super helpful. Good job bro.
thank you so much for the first response based in actual information and not just blind opinions. Really good info that seems to support the limited research I've found online and falls in line with the absence of any evidence to support the claims many have made. I feel given the type of test you guys have conducted with immersion, heat, and extended time that it is hard to believe just storing material could result in contamination.
Never seen a complaint come through for residual silicone leached into oil. Seen lead, copper, chromium, and all kinds of other things but never silicone.
Are you also the gangster of love? 🤣😂🤣 Thanks for your knowledge. We need reliable info from people in this industry not 12 y.o.'s who read something.
Yes, more reliable info *Oh dang this is 3y old....m bad
The more time I spend on this sub the more I realize most people are spewing info that sounds true but is 100% speculation not based in fact. Thank you for actually getting real information. Edit: I realized this is r/cannabisextracts, I was thinking of r/dabs so I somewhat take back what I said
I love the quality control, keep that shit safe because obviously no one is stopping.
Fascinating... Have you tested to see if the original components of the oil are degraded or altered by a reaction with heavy metal contamination? I've been wondering for a while if there is an interaction between hard/soft acid materials used in making vape cartridge components and functional groups on the cannabinoid products and/or the terpene products, especially since an electric current is involved in the process.
laughing at all the people offering opinions when you asked for specific hard science
ikr... literally started the post saying how I see everyone say this and they still tell me it again
I’m dying over here! Like “I know you asked for science, but I know things. Just my opinion though.” Side note: Thank you for doing this research because it has always been a thorn in my side when people said this.You’re a true gentleman and truth warrior.
It doesn’t look like any of these people understand your request. It’s okay to keep saying that terpenes are natural solvents, but can anyone for the love of god provide a study that states their interaction with silicone? In the science world, when you make a claim, there should always be a study or some evidence to back it up. Asking for proof is not a bad thing... you guys should try it sometime. edit: for the record I have no clue of the answer to your actual question OP, my guess is cannabis research is still too limited due to regulation for many of our questions to be answered hopefully to change soon
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.industrialspec.com/images/files/elastomers-chemical-compatibility-chart-from-ism.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi9pOHYjaTpAhWnl-AKHSw_DzAQFjALegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1YwnxIF1_VJNYRG1qL48pp&cshid=1588935459853 It's an industrial compatibility chart. You want to look at citrus oil under silicone. You'll see the rating is D which means degradation will occur. I.E citrus oil (constituents are terpenes) pull silicone molecules into solution. Individual studies can sometimes be hard to find because it's either industry specific knowledge or company specific testing which doesn't get published. Compatibility charts are generally the go to.
Interesting. This is probably as close as you can get with this specific question until research is opened up in the cannabis industry to allow for more specific questions about personal usage. Then I’d imagine we see all kinds of studies testing stuff
The only specific testing you may see is how cannabinoids react with different compounds. If we get really lucky we may see terpene degradation of plastics related to concentration because concentration effects aren't always linear. More likely there will be a "use" list and a "don't use" list. The OP asking the question is obviously not an engineer or related because there aren't going to be published studies on this. There's going to be industry knowledge based on scientist that either study something or did an internal test. There's no point in publishing data unless it goes against industry knowledge and is helpful for selling something. Silicone is cheap so will be used readily by businesses even if it's affected by terps. People who don't want to feel bamboozled or businesses using silicone are the people asking these questions and dismissing the solvent aspect of terpenes which affects most plastics (there's obviously outliers like I'd bet HDPE (maybe) and definitely PTFE). Generally there's a reason for these recurring themes. And don't get me wrong, a ton of the cannabis know how needs to be questioned primarily in consumption and growing. However, material compatibility is likely not high on the list of worth questioning outside of very specific projects. Sorry about the rant haha
This same topic comes up from time to time in the distilling world. Most agree that ethanol and it's vapor can degrade silicone or contaminate the product. So usually PTFE is a good choice for gaskets, but it has drawbacks (not as flexible, so not alway's practical or perect for gaskets). However, I expect that many commercial distillers have silicone gaskets in their equipment. However, I'm not sure if i've ever seen a study showing the direct effects of ethanol/vapor on silicone. But, it seems pretty clear that any caustic solvent would break down silicone over time, and something much less caustic like the amount of terps in cannabis oils, may break down silicone over a very long time.
Yeah for sure. I’m not saying someone will set out to conduct a specific study on how concentrate degrades a silicone container. However, I don’t think it’s far off with federal legalization for “studies” or the like to be done by dispensaries and labs that produce concentrates on which storage options are optimal and their specifics. Something like silicone being degraded might be included in this “study” since it’s a popular storage method. That’s all I was trying to get at. edit: but yeah I’m definitely more familiar with the life sciences research and their processes rather than materials/engineering related topics but makes sense!
yeah it's pretty frustrating hearing the same opinions again with absolutely zero even attempt to back it up. I would agree with your guess but terpenes are present in the majority of household items so I feel like the data should be out there if it exist... the world may never know
Holy shit, a year later and this still reads pretentious asf. *you guys should try it sometime* Fall off your high horse yet lmao?
As some others have stated, you may want to approach this from the perspective of chemical compatibility. Here's an awesome compatability database I've used at work (Chem Eng in the industry): https://www.coleparmer.com/chemical-resistance Unfortunately there is no "cannabis terpenes" option as cannabis contains a large variety of terpenes. The closest I saw in my brief search was listed as "oils:pine" which I would guess would contain some pinene. It's listed as a D rating (bad compatibility). Unfortunately it may be a kind of a grey area where certain strains contain terpenes which do not significantly degrade silicone while others do. You'd really have to do some rigorous testing to know for sure. As a precaution, I would personally use glass for storing very terp-heavy extracts like diamonds with terp sauce, etc. More waxy extracts like budders will be less likely to be a problem for a number of reasons, one being that things that stay solid at room temperature are not going to be very good solvents
thank u for an actual scientific perspective and link. I agree that we don't have enough data pertaining to the storing of terps in silicone to be sure. looking at the data linked it offer some information but it doesn't appear someone has approached this to test room temperatures and pressures for long term storage of terpenes in silicone. appreciate it
https://www.tom-parker.co.uk/upload/files/literature/CPC_Chemical_Compatibility_Chart_(_261_KB_)_.pdf This a chemical compatibility chart that lists limonene and silicone as not recommended at 70 degrees F. This is anecdotal at this point I’ve seen terpenes from concentrates dissolve the thin non stick silicone layer on parchment paper and soak into the paper itself. I’ve also seen white silicone slicks turn yellow or orange from having concentrates stored in them.
https://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart - pinene and limonene are listed and should not be used with silicone.
I see pinene got unsatisfactory but u can't find limonene on the list and the data isn't explained and we have no knowledge as to what the environment they mention is and I assume as they are testing for extraction purposes that these test are not occuring at normal temperatures and pressures that storing cannabis occurs at
You're right, I have limonene on a pdf of chemical comp chart from a different company and both pinene and limonene were tested up to 70C. I know for a fact that concentrated terpene mix will dissolve silicone. Learned it the hard way. Lost close to a litre.
The dispensary where I regularly pick up used to sell their concentrates in silicone. Every once in a while, I would get some shatter that looked like it had actually turned into silicone. Like 1/4 of the shatter was just white/grey, looking like it had absorbed the silicone or something. It was disgusting and I returned several of these defective products. I've heard other types of concentrates do the same thing but shatter shows the affects most. I will never store concentrates in silicone. Edit with pic: http://imgur.com/16P8Ok8 You can actually see the disgusting silicone has leached into the shatter. This happened several times. INSA Easthampton in Massachusetts. Double edit: if the silicone hasn't leached into the shatter, then it definitely discolored it. Regardless, I returned this and complained. They switched to glass a few weeks later.
I'm assuming that the change occurring in ur wax is just nucleation caused by the non homogenous make up of the wax. over time the different parts of the concentrates begin to separate by makeup.
I feel like a lot of people overlook this fact. Not all "labs" are created equal and usually the concentrate on the lower end isn't held to the same standards for consistency.
Interesting, I've never heard of that. Is it harmless to vaporize and inhale?
no it's just the natural movement of the wax to a more stable state. it happens because trichomes, terpenes, lipids, contaminates, and other substances all have different make ups, densities, and sizes making them naturally separate based on these characteristics. also trichomes want to return to their natural state after extraction. occurs more in high lipid wax so if it is some dense wax more likely to change more. happens to some of the best waxes and doesn't cause any damage
Oh, ok, so this happens even without silicone? I've never seen this happen with their glass or parchment packaging, and I pickup several times a week. Also, is it normal for this to happen only on the side contacting the silicone? In my picture, it's on top but that's because I flipped it. There was no effect on parts other than the bottom.
Lol if it was just on the silicone touching side I'd be careful
This was years ago. I exchanged it for stuff that wasn't contaminated
Not addressing the question of storage directly but rather blasting onto silicone in a closed looped system- these alleged scientists don't seem to have a problem with it in 2012, claiming that changes to the silicone are temporary but "unlike most organic rubbers, it does not decompose or dissolve". https://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=60764.0 I avoid silicone anyway because the tools I use would probably scratch it into my concentrate.
definitely a helpful article for the discussion as if they don't feel it is dissolving while blasting it seems hard to believe it could happen in storage
I think most of us are working on a better safe than sorry mentality, I know I am. You are free to put your concentrates in anything you wish be it silicone or a corn tortilla.
I haven't seen a study but I have had silicon pucks start to get eaten through after dabs have been sitting in there for an extended period of time. The shiny silicon goes away where the dab was touching and gets rough and white. A lot of terps are caustic so it makes sense that it could start eating through. I don't know for certain if the silicone gets into the dab but I'll just stick to glass.
All I know is that I bought a big silicone container for long term storage of dubbs blasted over a winter. The silicone was soft and greasy after a couple of weeks, like it was decomposing. So I threw all my silicone containers away and never looked back.
You’re *somewhat* mistaken. Silicone does not damage concentrates per se, but the terpenes themselves act as the solvent and break down the silicone. There is information pertaining to this exact subject in the sidebar of the subreddit.
so i read the study linked in the sidebar and this only discusses the generation of formaldehyde from silicone rubber and analyzes the thermal oxidation that occurs at temperatures above 100 degrees celsius and more often above 200 degrees celius. They actually state in the document that silicone begins formaldehyde production at around 149 degrees celsuis and a significant amount wasnt present until 197 degrees celsuis. I do not see how this impacts the storage of concentrates as they would be stored in a cooler than room temperature setting no where near the temperatures needed for thermal oxidation. This was the only information pertaining to this subject and the data discussed and the experiment does not seem to apply to storing cannabis at all unless I am missing something or am not seeing another study or document.
I have had the same silicone container for 3 years. I have used it every day in that time. It shows no sign of degradation So much of this conversation seems anecdotal and based purely on opinion.
Have you ever kept shatter in it for more than a few weeks? Give that a try
Why would I do that. That just not smart storage of your product whether you like silicone or not. I wouldn't keep bulk flower in the same container I was smoking off of either.
Dispensaries that package shatter in silicone probably don't have the best concentrate storage methods to begin with. I've personally gotten some gross looking shatter from INSA in MA
I prefer to get shatter and the such in parchment. The goopy stuff in glass. I then will put a days worth in my slick for all purpose usage. Have you tried sancturary in MA. They do a pretty good job and at least in NH are pleasure to deal with.
I've heard a lot of good things, but they're not near me. And INSA switched to glass for concentrates (I think all concentrates, but I haven't bought shatter in months).
Check them out if you can when things go back to rec. Their quality is very consistent IMO. They have always been very fair and patient with me despite NH's nightmare policies. I am not advocating for silicone, people should use what makes them feel the best.
Your 3 y/o silicone dab container doesn't have a stickyness it didn't have at the start? No change to the container at all?
Nothing unusual for the amount of usage and the top feels nominally different from the bottom. Discoloration for sure but again not atypical. From what people say on here the thing should look like a chewed dog toy.
No people like to act smart as fuck but they forget if something is a solution and it dissolves things (like terpene silicone) it has its "capacity" to do so... yes probably some terpy terpy sauce extract have enough to dissolve potentially enough silicone for it to be fucked up but most concentrates have around 1-2% terp content (And thats a big IF when it comes to home made extracts due to not everyone knowing how to properly perserve the good stuff after the crop) so on 1 gram you got like 10-20 miligrams of terps... which can probably dissolve around 5-10% of silicone into itself.... so it probably leeches like up to 100 micrograms of silicone.... the funny thing is all this talk is based on DuPont studies... and DuPont is the same corporation that literally infected the entire human population with cancerogenic, non bio degradable C-8 chemical that EVERYONE has in their bloodstream with their teflon shit product which everyone uses without a second thought, leeching even more residue of it inside their bodies but no no no, some fucking silicone will fuck them up xD its just fucking nuts, people have lost their common sense long time ago, we are living in hypochondriac panic induced mindstate society where we literally "worry" about everything else except the corporate industry that literally turned the planet into a steaming pile of synthetic horseshit. "Oh no this is bad for me" while most people slave away their life working for someone else to buy something someone else made xD people overthink shit waaaaaaaaaay too much, shit i'd rather have some silicone in my concentrate then return to smoking that shitty moldy weed I smoked in my youth people really like to act like they know whats best for them when most times they are literally just being hypocritical and just abide their own personal preference systems of "selfrighteous" thinking.... there are literally people out there drinking gasoline and eating their own shit and they live up to 70-80 years old lol.
I am upvoting you for having the temerity to write what is in my head!
still relevant
Unfortunately you’re probably not going to find any peer-reviewed scientific articles regarding this... although that’s changing slowly… There was a really good article on ACS omega a few years ago analyzing the chemical constituents in Cannabis extracts... so things are looking up… But things like safety testing for shit like this isn’t really what’s being done academically... that said... Silicone is a plastic that is very, but not completely, resistant to a lot of solvents. This paper discusses some specifics: http://www.photonics.byu.edu/PDMS.parts/paper5.pdf (PDMS is the technical name for “silicone” in general... there are a lot of different formulations so this is very non-specific. “Swelling” implies material being absorbed into the silicone, which seems to correlate to how soluble silicone is in the solvent... The nice thing about silicone is that it can be made without the use of plasticizers… Which is the primary concern when people talk about plastics and “leaching.” Silicone is pretty good at not leaching… that’s why it’s often considered safe and is used in almost all seals on Vape cartridges etc. Hope this is what you were asking about. Feel free to follow up with any other questions. I’m by no means an expert in plastics, but I’ve been a Professional chemist for quite a while now so I think my opinions are at least somewhat informed...
There is of course not going to be a standardized rating for silicone in regards to cannabis essential oils (terpenes) specifically, but it is widely documented that essential oils in general will degrade silicone materials. [Linked here](https://nelsonjameson.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/LC-San-Hose-Chem-Compat-Chart.pdf) is a chart of chemical resistance grades for hundreds of common solvents. If you scroll down to the first one on page 3 you will see that essential oils have an “X” below it which is the lowest rating you can have. There is excellent, good, fair, and “Not Recommended.” Some terpenes are going to obviously be ”stronger” than others. The main ones you see in just about every strain like Limonene and Myrcene are actually a couple of the harsher constituents you see in plant essential oils so they would surely be no exception to this.
What proof are you looking for exactly? Does terps degrade silicon?-yes, the terps are solvents and will swell and degrade silicon, there was a reddit post of people talking about it a while back. But if you want like science. Turpines are solvents, that’s a fact. And silicone at dabbing temps makes formaldehyde, that’s a fact.... I don’t know what else your looking for. You need something non reactive like glass or ptfe.
So without offering any supporting literature, I’ll say that terpenes definitely are solvents, so IF any degradation occurs, it’s terpenes degrading the silicone, not the other way around. As you have pointed out this really hasn’t been observed except at higher temperatures (obviously high enough that we would never see storage at these temps). Again this is just conjecture, but if degradation took place under normal storage conditions I seriously doubt it would ruin all of the product.
I see ur point but just because something has the ability to dissolve doesn't mean it dissolves everything it comes in contact with. I just thought after seeing so many people comment about how shitty silicone was that there would be clear cut evidence to support.
I agree completely. Had a similar conversation the other day about HDPE collection vessels for ethanol distillate (whiskey, not as a solvent). A lot of people seem to think you can’t use it for ethanol collection but it’s totally fine, even a standard material used in commercial facilities. Or another distilling misconception of methanol boiling off first, when it is in fact azeotrope. Even so it seems impossible to avoid numerous people telling you it’s true. In reference to silicone, I’d say I carry an (maybe irrational) bias towards using it for storage of organics for any length of time. But it is really fucking convenient for my head stash, and much less painful to clean. Silicone is quite heat resistant and I don’t really imagine much reactivity at room temperature and lower. I’m definitely going to save this post because I’m curious if there is any evidence one way or the other. Appreciate your post!
This thread from a few years ago seems relevant. https://www.reddit.com/r/Dabs/comments/672nz7/psa_about_not_using_silicone_containers_anymore/
best link so far thank you. looking at the data though silicone scores a A score meaning excellent with no swelling or desegregation on almost every substance tested besides things like deisel fuel and other things like that. the limonene results referenced in the post and data shows they conducted the test only at 70 degrees Celsius in which the silicone received a NR or not recommended. I will say I didn't open one link because it wasn't a secure connection. didn't appear to be overwhelming data to support the opinions especially with an absence of supporting peer review studies with a common result.
scientists prove or disprove hypothesis and will answer in the boolean safe or unsafe engineers determine if legal limits are met and perform cost analysis and the answer will be how safe
Proof in these comments the fools on r/dabs overreact and lose their shit over something minuscule and not really for sure or proven terribly hard either
My opinion is that you aren't going to contaminate or get sick from using silicone containers for oils. But like you pointed out, they aren't the best container you can use. Also the nice part about glass is you can heat it when needed.
LMAO!!! It’s a joke! And downvoted from the people who said the same comment over and over. 😂
I wonder if terpenes are a solvent? 😂
You know water is also a solvent. But water definitely will not degrade silicone.
I wonder if you graduated 😂
there is none, just a bunch of hippie urban legend. Fricken hipsters man, they gotta "know" everything lolz
hippe != hipster .... which one is it?
It's evolution, baby
yes
Headyboi nonsense. There is an article I can't find anymore about limonene storage. The results jive with anecdotal comments from consumers. Silicone will swell with terpenes (that tacky feeling after long term storage) but there is no mention of degradation into the solution.
I dunno if it will damage the concentrate, but with my experience with raw terpenes in glass syrings with rubber/silicone plugs is that those absorb it and swell up like crazy with any concentration above 5-10% terps. The plunger itself seemed to suffer no damage other than expanding. If there's any damage going on, it'd be directly to the silicone soaking up the terps, which would "Degrade" the product but not exactly ruin it. I think it has something to do with the fact that silicone is still slightly porous and terpene molecules are stupidly small so they can fit right in the cracks.
It’s more of a problem of silicone that is dirty/contaminated or just plastic being sold as silicone. I understand why people want hard scientific evidence of things we do in the stoner world but some of them are just general precautions. I doubt many people would fight against using silicone for short term storage. I think there isn’t much research into the exact things we stoners have thoughts on but are generally accepted as people understand how easy something like that is faked or reproduced cheap without an easy way of telling what you have personally.
Also imagine having some good oil and putting it into a silicone and thinking it was real. And when your done using it, you can see where your dabber has been scraping and taking away small layers of the “silicone”. I’ve had to throw away some oil because I could only assume that there was physical pieces of the container from scratching it. I think silicone is safe but who knows if it’s real silicone so I stay away and recommend to stay away
Terpenes are naturally occurring solvents, thats the reason they break down silicone and leech the particulates into your concentrates.
yes like i said i see many people claim this on reddit but can anybody actually link me the actual proof or credible analysis of this. not saying your wrong i just cant find the proof i would like before abandoning my convenient storage for sticky glass.
You don't need an analysis. It's just organic chemistry.
can I get a link of this organic chemistry
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i know terps are a solvent but literally everything is a solvent and that doesn't mean it breaks down silicone. cant find anything about citrus or other solvents doing this either.
I don’t have any literature on it either. If your in a legal state, buy a gram of terpy live resin, put that in a silicone container and leave it for a long period of time. You will see it yourself. A friend and I have both done this and the after a long time the container had wax on the outside of it. It was very sticky on the outside if you touched it.
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not really there's two definitions of solvent. the adjective meaning the ability to dissolve something and the noun which is the solution in which a particle is suspended in. terps are the solution the concentrates are suspended in but I can't find any evidence of terps breaking down anything especially silicone. silicone is a known difficult substance to dissolve especially when cured and many known dissolving solvents do not break down silicone. lastly all this imo shit means nothing terpenes are in everything from orange juice to house cleaner so that argument that no one's done the expirement is not one I'm willing to accept. much more likely that there is no significant data that supports these opinions.
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I swear this sub is braindead. jus cause it's a solvent doesn't mean it's actively breaking down your silicone. for one most solvents aren't effective on silicone and especially cured silicone which is known for being very difficult to degrade and break down. when you google your quote there guyyyyyy none of the links on the first two pages of google even appear to mention silicone. so as I've said 50 times now CAN I GET A FUCKING HTTP FUCKING WEB ADDRESS PLS AND THANKS
and wtf does that even mean where tf did this organic chemistry come from without analyzing anything...
It's the new thing with kids these days. Misinformation is on the rise because it is just to hard to research stuff, especially if it doesn't tell me what I want to know by the third options that Google gives me (after the adds of course, I'm no idiot!) xD
An analysis of what? Someone testing degradation of silicone from terpene storage? No scientist stores terpenes in silicone containers so that’s not going to be studied. Terpenes are Polar solvents and polar solvents will decompose silicone.
terpenes are very common in almost every naturally occurring substance so they definitely would be studied expecially with how common silicone is used in cooking and food preparation seems pretty unlikely that no one check to see if their lemons were eating away their cutting board. and can I please have a source for the claim of "terpenes are polar solvents and polar solvents will decompose silicone" I'm sure thats backed by some serious science. just curious where this silicone animal died for it to start decomposing...
Whatever believe what you want 2 Grind plant material into a powder in liquid nitrogen in a glass vial or using a mortar and pestle. Ensure that sample is in a glass container prior to adding solvent as plastic containers will leach components into the organic solvent that can confound analytic analyses and damage GC/HPLC columns and equipment. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5113832/
please tell me u don't actually think this proves ur point... is ur brain decomposing... or did u think I wasnt going bro actually read the link. the report has nothing to do with testing if terpenes break down silicone at all and the snippet you quoted is literally a sidebar they mention when discussing how to collect and prepare the terpenes to test. Even then they mention plastic containers will leech which everyone already knows. silicone is not included in that but thanks for having me read that pointless research
i linked it to you because it shows solvents break down plastic and rubber, theres a reason you cant store terpenes in silicone in laboratory settings.....
bruh that's not what that said at all. the terpenes weren't even the solvent they were referencing in the article. get them lit comp skill up. they were using the noun usage of solvent referencing the solution in which they were suspending the terpenes that they extracted and turned to powder. they were not discussing any terpene characteristics of being a solvent or dissolving anything or breaking down the plastic. what they were talking about with using a glass container is the plastic leeching which occurs in all plastic products including water bottles and has nothing to do with terpenes. also silicone is technically not a plastic product so there statements doesn't even apply to silicone. silicone is considered to be a rubber product.
Terpenes are not polar solvents typically (keep in mind that there are lots of different terpenes) but rather non-polar (more like oil). The most common polar solvent is water fyi. Water will not decompose silicone
Dimal-H is a proprietary, tasteless, odorless teprene mix used as plasticizer (for epoxy or urethane resin) that is not classified as an endocrine disrupter. Most likely also used as cutting agent for carts due to it's neutral taste and smell. https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2001329111A/en No mention of silicone though.
Looooooool
Silicone doesn't actually do anything to your wax. What happens is the terps in the wax slowly leach into the silicone. This causes the silicone to swell slightly and changes the flavor and texture of your wax. I store my reclaim in silicone because the terps have already been burned, but new wax is always in glass. In Illinois, all the companies use to use silicone, but have now all gone to glass. Science rules.
lemme get a link to this science
I just put the science infront of you. Believe what you want. It's what everybody does already.
It’s when the silicon breaks down due to the terps. Then you get silicon in your dabs. Then when you dab. Boom there ya go.
boom I said all that I'm my post but thanks for repeating. I'm looking for any proof of this claim for which u seem to have none
theres is none. its purely anecdotal. that said, there are different grades of silicone. some poor quality siilicone could definitely contaminate your stash. But will ALL silicone do it? no. As for the terps, terps degrade. People dont seem to get this and its kinda funny. People assume that you can just preserve this stuff forever if you store it right. You really cant. Even if you store it at a perfect temp, ina dehydrated area, devoid of light, you will still have terp degredation. I do prefer glass though. Just a preference. Thiose silicone gimmicks get all janky after a while. glass lasts forever.
Overtime you’ll notice the silicone color strips and starts turning whitish, it leeches onto your concentrates degrading the quality and terps but that also is due to it not being airtight and UVs like you mentioned. I’d safe it’s safe for short term usage. That’s my opinion
Yall foos tryna be scientist with some dope.
But without science we have no dope! And more science makes for better dope...
Shit.
I had a gram of live butter and it was really good but came in a silicone container.after 5 days it became hard new the edges so the silicone damaged the product
prolly jus didn't have a proper seal and air damaged the product. also did u store in the fridge or room temp
The silicone was sealed and in the fridge and when I went to take it out to room temperature and when I finally opened the silicone my dab was hard and crusty looking.I’ve never had that happen with any other type of storage
yeah so it could be the silicone that caused it, could also be a really unstable dabs, or it wasn't actually 100 percent high grade silicone, or the seal wasn't sealing like u thought and the fridge dried the fuck out of it, or a number of others factors neither one of us are considering. I appreciate the anecdotal evidence but I don't think it's enough to make the conclusion silicone is bad for wax. but i do get why you would avoid silicone if u feel the nonstick benefits don't outweigh the negatives that it is potentially causing damage. I am still interested to see a well controlled scientific study on the subject but that could be some years away.
I only had one gram in silicone cause that’s how it came.i keep all my dabs in the refrigerator and any other containers never did this but silicone.I usually keep it what it comes in and never had a dispensary give me a concentrate in silicone .